Greco-Roman Stoicism
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Stoicism was perhaps the most popular school of Greek philosophy in the Roman Empire, as exemplified by Emperor Marcus Aurelius, who lived his life as an actual Stoic philosopher-king. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place looks at the ethics and world-view of the Stoics and consider Stoicisms' value for individuals and its possible impact on later Roman society, as well as the degree to which Stoic virtues continue to be admired today.
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I am impressed by the way John is well prepared and very knowledgeable.
The audience talked more than John in this one. Great talk as always, but for the love of god, please ask the audience to keep it concise.
It's a shame the audience, small as it is, makes the usual Q&A blunders throughout when John is only casual on the surface but otherwise a levelheaded scholar. Props for the experimental approach if nothing else, I suppose.
I love this classes... I just realized: almost 5000 views... this must be one of the largest philosophy classrooms, I ever attended.
I usually try to only leave positive comments, but holy shit the audio mixing was egregious in this lecture.
1:23:15 Interesting points here. Maybe that's why I've found stoicism to be one of the most attractive philosophies.
Damn, the audio is really bad.. actually painful noise on the right side around 35 min
Amazing lecture as usual but the audio is all over the place
"Now you are totally powerless to the forces of Uber" 🤣 pure gold
Great lecture, ty🙏
Could you do one on the Druze? They seem fascinating.
Thanks
Good comparison of ancient Stoicism to a 'modern' regurgitation in a facebook meme style. It's a great example of how two identical sounding ideas have can have completely opposite intention. The ancient stoics tries to Reconcile Themselves to their lack of power and the LOWNESS of the society around themselves, a society which is indeed far, far lower now. BUT the facebook meme modern pseudo-stoicism has a completely different purpose today: It is the purpose of a Christianity used by predators. These Philosophies are used as philosophies of resignation... so that the people will resign themselves to their suffering, oppression and total control by others. Obviously the intent of Marcus Aurelius and others was to give them the power to endure unendurable diffficulties.
HERE’S HOW THE ORIGINAL STORY OF THE TWO WOLVES REALLY ENDS:
The old Cherokee smiled and replied, “If you feed them right, they both win.” The story goes on. “You see, if I only feed the white wolf, the black wolf will hide in the dark waiting for me to falter so that it can pounce and get the attention he craves. He will always be angry and will always be fighting the white wolf. But if I acknowledge him, both he and the white wolf can be satisfied, and we all win.
For the black wolf has qualities that I need and that the white wolf lacks: tenacity, courage, fearlessness, strength of will, and resourcefulness. The white wolf instead provides compassion, caring, heart, and the ability to value the needs of others over my own.
You see, the two wolves need each other. Feeding only one and starving the other will eventually make both uncontrollable. Caring for both allows them both to serve you, so that you can do something greater, something good with your time on earth. Feed them both and you will quiet their internal struggle for your attention, and, when there is no battle inside, you can then hear the voices of deeper knowledge that will guide you in choosing the right path in every circumstance.
Peace, my son, is what we must all strive for in life. He who has peace inside has everything. He who harbors a storm within his heart and soul has nothing. How you choose to treat the opposing forces within you will ultimately determine how you live.”
STARVE ONE OR THE OTHER OR GUIDE THEM BOTH. THIS IS THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE STORY OF THE TWO WOLVES.
The most popular philosophy in later antiquity was Platonism not Stoicism, and Stoicism was not that popular across social stations. Most Stoics are upfront about the fact that their philosophy was for the elite.
And many were adamantly opposed to such distinctions. Epictetus was a slave, and while he was immersed in elite circles, he began his journey toward stoicism in abject bondage. Xeno was destitute when he founded Stoicism, and losing his entire livelihood in a costly shipwreck was what inspired him to walk into the bookstore in Athens and begin his philosophical journey. He was not wealthy by any means when he taught on the Stoa. Platonism and Neoplatonism were no more egalitarian than stoicism.
@@Len124 I'm not sure if we could say that Epictetus was in abject bondage. He was evidently given the best education in Rome, that only a small fraction of people ever received (some
slaves were trained to assist in the managing of aristocratic households), and we know Epictetus was given significant free time to attend Musonius Rufus' lectures while he was still a slave. Scholars note slaves such as Epictetus decidedly can not be referred to as an individual who represents an underprivileged stratum of Roman society (e.g. Dobbin, Miller, MacGillivray). Epictetus himself notes that philosophy is only open to people "who have leisure" Diss. 1.27.20-21, 1.29.58. To possess leisure (otium) was understood by definition in antiquity as marking out an individual as a member of the prosperous elite.
Platonism was indeed just as elite as Stoicism, but other philosophies, e.g. Epicureanism, purposefully tried to attract the less educated/prosperous. With Stoicism the satirists mock its upper-class coterie of students, e.g. Horace talking about the school's books resting on cushions of silk (Ode 8).
@@Len124 Also we know that Platonism was by far the most dominant philosophy in late antiquity from the sources which, after the reign of Marcus Aurelius, are dominated by Platonic thought, and from independent analysis on philosophical epigraphs, e.g. see Richard Goulet's " Ancient Philosophers: A First Statistical Survey" , based upon his gargantuan effort in his "Dictionnaire des Philosophes Antiques". During the first century BC Epicureanism was the most popular philosophy in the Roman Empire.
Roman Stoicism did teach identity of the individual with the Roman state and culture. Greek Stoicism, rejecting the corruption by the material world and social engagement, transformed into CHRISTIANITY..... Greek Christianity (Herodeus/ Dyonisius/ Marcion/ apostle John) would later fuse with Jewish Christianity (Barnabas/ Aristobol/ Paul/ Peter)
Antishthenes looks like my college roommate.
I thought that this presenter was a woman until I switched the sound on.this Greco Roman stoicism cost them a lot of lives.the Romans,at the battle of teutoburg forest,and not forgetting their miserable non efforts when the visi goths were at Rome's very gates.the Greek lot list a battle against the Maccabees of Israel,a Jewish army,and also lost Carthage to Rome.
If we grow green 'on rooftops, and stop killing our regions of growth, humanity may not be extinct before 2026; but, from our behavior, I am not expecting, I'll see it.
The audience ruined the presentation.
This society of Chimpanzees is as far as possible from Greco-Roman ideals. Thanks for the fine scholarship Centre Place. If you wish to hear the world altering knowledge of the True World History Paradigm please Friend Paris Sparrow and begin reading the posts.
Tell these bats in the audience to hold their ramblings until the end and _definitely_ don't give them a microphone
Atheist alternative route
What was that Trump bit? Trump is the happiest positive guy around. Uncalled for and indication of an unwise teacher happy to parrot others.
You’re a great patriot Jan. Please give me some money
@@Dude0000 Yep,,, totally agree as a canuck . I hate the media. learned after the 2008 G8 summit in Toronto how much the media Lies . Dont care whose in power, media is to hold the governments feet to the fire .There is no fox type news in Canada (right leaning). CNN and fox news have their faults and biases in America , but you get varied view points . Some maybe right, some may be wrong. But in canada, you only get a left leaning narative
@@Dude0000 Yep ,,, I'm 59 and heard of Trump in entertainment news etc,,, never watched his tv show and was hoe hum to him , But when he got elected. I laughed so hard but then went, hold on , they just elected someone with no political experience. It really showed at first, a lot of tweets were punching down too much. But as time went on he got better .Yet he got tiresome to listen to but his policy's were sound.
For me it was the "fine people hoax" bc it was the beginning of his term, I heard his speech. Then what the media was saying , you had to go "did we listen to the same speech ??? Over time talking to people I was shocked how many people look at the media as some type of teller of truth. You would try to explain to them that their a business, clicks on headlines whether true or false meant money. Their propaganda that lectures a narrative. But they would argue "yeah but CNN said so ,,,, and your not a EXPERT on the news blah blah. Then you would tell them to read the transcript, you could hold the transcript right up to their face and go read this and they would still deny
Only seen Alex on joe Rogan show or some one else podcast, he is funny as hell and crazy, but sometimes right. Joe Rogan is some what level headed. He was saying a few weeks back if some news agency would just try to shoot the news straight down the middle and was less biased, they would makes millions. news has become very corrupt in this click bait world . If it dont heel it self soon were doomed ,,, freedom of speech is also at war, have to be careful what you type on YT,,, hopefully YT gets knocked off its pedestal soon, its slowly starting to happen
sorry for long rant ,,,, but comments get the algorithms up which means more views for this channel :)
@@rickkelly5652 just stop. He never got better, just more deluded
Noone cares. Dont be so sensitive