Atomos Shogun XLR Audio Inputs: Decent Preamps
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- Опубліковано 13 січ 2015
- There have been a ton of reviews and “first impressions” and “test footage” videos covering the new Atomos Shogun 4K recorder. But what we have not seen is much coverage of the XLR audio inputs on the Shogun. In this episode we have a quick listen to the preamps of the Shogun and compare it to the Tascam DR-60D audio recorder for reference.
Come on over to LearnLightAndSound.com to learn more about sound and lighting for video.
Gear in this episode:
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Atomos Shogun 4K HDMI Recorder
Amazon: geni.us/Lvf1T
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product...
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Panasonic GH4 4K Camera
Amazon: geni.us/cpnUELY
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product...
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Olympus 45mm f/1.8 Lens (My favorite m4/3 lens)
Amazon: geni.us/O04Ey
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product...
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Audio Technica AT4053b Hypercardioid Condenser Microphone
Amazon: geni.us/aZikY
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product...
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Tascam DR-60DmkII Audio Field Pre-amp Recorder
Amazon: geni.us/hQJtti
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product...
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Music copyright Curtis Judd 2012
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
Great, thanks again Curtis, it's extremely decent of you to take the time to answer questions. I really appreciate it!
Very nice review. Thank you for taking your time, and for looking into the audio aspect!
I've just received my Shogun and a Røde NTG-2 shotgun mic. I'm a bit disappointed in terms of audio level. I've set the gain to max at +20db, and still I feel as though the audio level needs boosting in post.
Thanks Kasper. Yes, the NTG2 is a decent mic but not the most sensitive so it typically requires a bit more gain. I always process the audio in editing anyway, so that I leave enough headroom for louder passages (since I don't have a dedicated audio guy to ride the gain/faders)
I like how specific your videos are. I was just wondering about this and poof you have a vid on it! Amazing.
Boom! Done! Thanks for the feedback!
+Curtis Judd one more thing. I'm setting up a semi portable setup. Am using an Audient id22 audio interface and a laptop to record. Do you have a suggestion for a way for me to get the 10bit 4k video from my a7sii into my laptop as well? so i don't have to buy a shogun.
BlackMagic Design makes capture cards though the only portable one that captures 4k and connects to the laptop via Thunderbolt runs about $2850 USD: amzn.to/2aqCwy7 They make much more affordable HD models. I have this one which is super portable but only does HD: amzn.to/2amQfs5 And all this assumes you have a laptop with a thunderbolt port. There are other capture cards/boxes aimed primarily at gamers (to capture gameplay) though I don't keep up with that class of products. The Shogun is the most efficient path with which I am familiar.
I think for the A7sii, the Assassin or Assassin Flame might be a better fit for me because:
1. I can't shoot RAW and use HDMI only.
2. I'm recording my audio externall.
Or am i mistaken?
Yes, I agree. The Ninja Assassin or Ninja Flame would both work nicely. Good luck!
This is old, but do you think this still might apply to the Ninja Inferno probably, too?
+EposVox if I had to guess, yes. They changed the breakout cable and didn't send the new one with the Ninja Inferno so I could test. But my guess is that it sounds pretty good with condenser mics, but probably produces a bit more self noise than most dedicated audio recorders.
Alright. Thanks
thank you for posting Curtis!
You're welcome!
Thank you! Been searching for intelligent audio comparisons while testing the Shogun against the H4N myself. I was hoping the preamps on the Shogun would be of high enough quality to make this devise a one piece audio/video recording unit. I'm not an audio guy so any solid input on this topic is very helpful. Again, thank you.
Thanks Lou! I have subjectively found that the Tascam DR-60DmkII's preamps are cleaner than the Zoom H4n so I would not be surprised to find that the Shogun and Zoom are about the same, at least in terms of noise floor (though of course I don't have an H4n anymore to test that).
Hi Curtis, thanks again for all your tutorials... incredibly wonderful. I'm using the Shogun with my A7s. If I'm recording my audio on separately, on the Dr60, do you know why I'm not getting camera mic audio from the Shogun - I see levels but when I go into premiere, there's no reference audio. Thanks again
+Chop House Films Thanks! I'm not 100% sure, but you have the audio tracks "armed" with the red dot on? I assume you are not feeding the audio from the DR-60D to the Shogun?
Thank you Curtis.
Everton
Hi Curtis, thanks for the review. You're right, it's strange that no one is offering tests on the audio quality. I do hear that slight buzzing when you switch over to the Inferno. Do you think using a Juiced Link preamp instead would get rid of that? Also, do you think the Inferno's fan noise could be picked up by an on-camera rode stereo videomic x when recording quiet ambient sound?
Hi, yes. Note that this was a test of the original Shogun rather than the Inferno. And yes, the fan in the original shogun is definitely picked up by camera mounted microphones which I know from sad experience. When it comes to situations where I cannot boom a mic or use a lav and have to mount a mic on camera, the Shogun is not something I use.
Hello Curtis! I can't wait you to review the new Shogun Flame and compare to yours! Thanks in advance!
+David Skaliczky I can't wait! Thank you!
Great review. Question: how do I figure out how much to set the audio delay? Is it same for every GH4? And what about at different frame rates, 24p or 30p?
What I did was record myself clapping on camera. Then took the footage into Premiere and moved the audio track until it lined up with the video and count how many frames I moved it. Interestingly, it was also 4 frames with my Ninja II and Nikon D600 at 24 fps. I haven't tried other framerates but it would plausibly be different.
Curtis,
Have you noticed on the Shogun it takes about 5 seconds in the record mode before it starts to record audio? Fortunately I caught this before heading out into the field. Didn't know if this was an issue with just my unit or with others as well.
Regards,
Garrett
Hey Garrett, I hadn't noticed that but now I'll watch for it. Come to think of it, I'll usually start rolling and then step into the frame to use the clapper board or just clap so typically 5 seconds pass before it matters in most of my footage but that's a pretty critical point. Thanks for alerting us.
Curtis,
Thanks very much for your very timely response.
I am on the phone with tech support at Motionmedia.com and they said that it should work. A 128gb SSD cost about $120. A Sony 120 gb will cost me about $1,000.
This way, I don't have to purchase a seperate monitor for my camera and recording media will be much cheaper.
Very good review on the Shogun(Audio).
Thanks much,
Everton
Everton Oliphant Totally makes sense. The screen on the Shogun is beautiful, at least when indoors or shaded from direct sun and the scopes are indispensable. I hope you enjoy it!
Hi Curtis, do you know if I can plug a Mic Mixer into the unit via the mixer's XLR outs into the XLR ins? Also, does each input record in Left/Right? Or does one input record in left and the other in right? Thank you!
Hi Felipe, yes, on the audio options page you change the input to line level input. Each input records a single channel. Most likely you'll get a stereo feed from the mixer (a left and right channel). Good luck!
Thank you!
Perhaps getting a Fethead Phantom for +18db condenser mic clean amplification right next to the condenser mic would be good accessory to the Atmos XLR input? (It's on the list of things I crave for but currently wait for because of money and stuff. Ray Ortega of Podcaster Studio recommends the ordinary Fethead +20db for working with dynamic mics which he prefers. That variant won't work with phantom mics though)
Great idea--thanks!
hi Curtis, just wondering about the atomos ninja v preamps.....are any where close to the Shogun ....thanks
Hi, I would assume so but don’t have one on hand to test.
Thanks for the info. You gave me the confidence to make the purchase and I do not regret it. This monitor is a beast. 👍 I prefer rec . In pro res with this monitor. Using my black magic cinema camera with my imac and davinci resolve.
👍 Happy recording!
Thanks Chris. It's like some kind of black art. Nobody using the same info for those devices regarding line level output. I don't need xlr just more level into my ninja2.
Curtis,
I need your opinion.
Many years ago, I was using a Sony 3CCD V220 Camcorder8mm.
I am looking at the Sony PMW300K1 ($8,000 B&H) vs the PMW320K ($8,000).
I will be recording to the Shugun 10bit 4:2:2
Which would you recommend?
Everton
Everton Oliphant Oh wow. You will need to take anything I have to say on this matter with a huge grain of salt because I have never shot with a pro camcorder. Just looking at the specs, I guess the PMW-300K1 because it has a better signal to noise ratio. But please, please check with others that have shot with these cameras and you have already confirmed that the Shogun works with both of these, I assume? Best wishes!
I have an Atamos Ninja and a nikon d800. the atamos wants line level input and the camera produces (noisy) headphones level output. Any suggestions what to put in between? Don't really want to hassle of post synch if possible and it really need to be as clean and simple as possible.
Hi Mike, You could try an audio adapter like one of these: ua-cam.com/video/B_0od_f_QkQ/v-deo.html
Nice review.something often overlooked in a video recorder nd not something I'd think about. Could you do a review of the Shogun video quality with the Panasonic GH4? I haven't actually seen many videos showing a detailed review of the GH4 with a Shogun 4K recorder and would be good to see some 10-bit 4K clips to see the quality.
Yes, working on it. So far, the differences are pretty subtle. The colors look a little more natural (tiny difference), especially when pushing it around in Resolve. Of course there is less banding in skies and other gradients, though it isn't clear to me how well that holds up once you render to an 8-bit format. My sense so far is that it is a specialist tool. I love the scopes, the screen, the ability to nail focus so much more easily. I like working with ProRes files, especially when working with 4k footage - far fewer dropped frames, stuttering playback (though I hear this is not necessarily the case on Windows). So I'm happy with the purchase, but I'm not sure that the footage it produces *looks* a lot better if you don't do extensive grading. More to come, probably not a video review but a text review on my blog: learnlightandsound.com
Hey Curtis. What kind of gear would allow me to connect 6 XLR microphones to record 6 track audio in the Shogun?
Hi Hannes, I would use an external recorder like a Zoom F8 or Sound Devices MicPre-10T.
Cool.
I'll try that.
one of the best yet underrated youtube reviewer.
and i noticed the sibilant in your voice seems more obvious in the test.
Thanks Roger! In the non test audio clips I applied a de-esser. The sibilance in my voice is usually through the roof. :)
hahaha. its really obvious in the video. i am surprised because i never hear it in asian voices.
***** Asians are lucky!
we sound too nasal normally. lol. i am trying to find a way to remove the nasally asian speech.
***** Hahaha! I guess we all have issues. ;-) Sometimes an EQ cut at around 1kHz can help cut the nasal sound.
Hey Curtis, I've got a couple questions about lavs and I thought you'd be most equipped to answer. Which do you think is more important, the lav or the audio recorder it's going into. I'm looking for a high quality solution for Wedding videography, do you have a good recorder/lav combo you suggest. I've been looking at the zoom h5 or maybe h1 with a lav attached. Thanks for the great vids!
Hey Spencer, I've used a Zoom H1 with a lav attached to the groom's lapel and that works reasonably well for picking up the bride, groom, and officiator/minister. Ideally a Sennheiser wireless lav would remove the need to sync in post, but that's a bit more investment at around $600 US. A shotgun with the H5 could work as well but will pick up more ambient sound and you generally need to be within 5 feet of the people you're filming or capture the sound from loudspeakers if they're using a mic for the wedding. Good luck!
Spencer Moret Whoismatt has an extensive video specifically about sound for weddings you should check out.
Hey Curtis,
I am thinking about getting the Shogun to use with my Sony PMW300K1 camcorder. Do you think I can use this as my primary recording source while bypassing the ever EXPENSIVE Sony SxS cards ?
Everton
Hey Everton, You'll probably want to confirm with Atomos. Strangely they do not list the Sony PMW300K1 on their supported cameras list but they do list the 200 and 100. The Shogun tears through batteries so you'll want to have a good external power solution in mind. It is also finicky about which SSD drives you put in it, but if you use one from their compatibility list, it works a charm.
Hi Curtis! Thanks a lot for you review on the audio part of the Atmoos Shogun. You right there is almost no reviews out there on the audio part. I am about to invest in a Atmos recorder, but I am torn between the Atomos Shogun flame and the Ninja Flame, well due to the price differnece of course. I like to not use my Tascam DR 60 MKII, beacuse there are so many parts. I use it with my Sony A7, but are planning to buy a new camera some time in the future (maybe a Sony A7sii or Sony Fs5). So the question is do you think it will be worht the extra money to buy the more expensive Atomos Shogun flame ? I like things to be practical without too much fuzz and I want the sound to be good.
+Jill Johannessen Hi Jill, great questions. I haven't used the newest Atomos recorders yet (the "Flames") but I'm hoping to get my hands on them at some point. Here are the main things I would consider:
1) Do you need SDI inputs on the recorder? If you go the FS5 route, that may be useful and it is my understanding that only the Shogun Flame has SDI inputs. SDI connectors are way more robust that HDMI connectors when you're moving that camera around.
2) With the caveat that I haven't tested them personally, the Ninja Flame appears to only have a 3.5mm audio input and the Shogun Flame has XLR input. I would expect the XLR inputs on the Shogun Flame to be about the same quality as those on the Shogun - sound good, but a bit noisier than the Tascam DR-60DmkII. So that would come down to the types of microphones you'll be using and your tolerance for self-noise in the preamps. If from this video, you really cant tell much difference, you're probably fine to go with the Shogun Flame and cut the Tascam out of your workflow.
I hope that helps and best wishes!
Nice alternative review Curtis, just what I needed to know, as I haven't found another informed review of the audio capabilities of this recorder. It is full of precise and useful information, as with all of your posts. Thanks.
I looked this up because, like you, I am trying to find ways of slimming down my location kit. It is good to know that the Shugun preamps will hold their own against the likes of the Tascam DR-60D. I use a Zoom F8, or if weight is an issue, a Zoom H5. What I think I would miss though would be the faders and the -12dB safety tracks, which of course the Shogun doesn't have. Have you found this to be much of an issue? Do you find the headroom on the Shogun preamps to be sufficient for careful operators?
Hi Chris, Honestly, I ended up using a dedicated audio recorder almost all of the time largely because it was easier to operate that way.
Thank you for your quick reply Curtis. That is what I expected, especially with your in-depth knowledge of audio recorders and the features they offer. I think using a dedicated audio recorder would certainly be a safer way to work. Having said that, I have gone back to making sure the Shogun breakout cable is in my kit, so I can record to the Shogun if there is ever an issue with my dedicated recorder.
@@curtisjudd
Hello Curtis, thank you for the wonderful review!!! I have a question that I think you may be the only person on the internet that can answer it: I am planning to buy a Tascam-DR701D external recorder, and also an Atomos Shogun Flame for my sony A7S. Obviously I would have to run the micro HDMI to HDMI from my A7S to the Atomos to get 4K video. However, I would also like to use the sync timecode function and HDMI trigger of the DR-701D. Would running the HDMI output from the Atomos to the HDMI input of DR-701D work? (the setting looks like this A7S -> Atomos -> DR-701D)
(I know that I can also run the Micro HDMI to HDMI from A7S to the DR-701D, and then HDMI to HDMI from the DR-701D to the Atomos instead (A7S -> DR-701D -> Atomos), but the problem is with this setting DR-701D doesn't support 4K recording just yet).
Hmm, I'm not sure whether the HDMI control signals will pass through and also not sure whether the timecode passes through the Atomos in either direction. I'm afraid that I don't know. :( Perhaps contacting Tascam and Atomos will help?
Thank you so much for your reply! I only want to buy the DR-701D specifically for these two functions. I will contact them and see what they say. If it's not possible I can opt for the DR-70 instead
That makes sense. Best wishes!
Hi Curti, thanks so much, very useful! I am connecting a Countryman Lav XLR to the Shogun for an interview, I will only use it as a VO. Do you have any setting recommendations for input/output gain?
Best,
Alex
Alex Cadilla Yes, I'd start with Mic Level and 0db as my first test to see where that gets you. I, usually aim for peaks that hit -12dB and then compress and loudness normalize in post like this: ua-cam.com/video/VcMOBrdbHgk/v-deo.html
Curtis Judd Great! Thanks so much Curtis!
Curtis, sorry to bother you again but I have another question. The Shogun's phantom power can only be turned when in Audio Options the Audio in Mic Level is set at -40 dBul. If I choose Pro Level at +24 dBul or Line Level at -10dBul, the phantom power for a mic connected through the XLR's cannot be turned on and these are the only two options. If I use phantom power, does having the Audio In on the "Mic Level {-40dBul} setting have a detrimental effect on the sound recorded? I still raise the input gain level so it peaks at -12 but I'm concerned that the -40 setting will affect the sound. I am not using a sound board, I am connecting a LAV and a stereo mic directly to the Shogun.
Alex Cadilla Alex, no, that's no problem at all. The -40dB just refers to the fact that microphones produce a much weaker signal (-40dB) relative to line level (+6dB when using a balanced cable). So don't worry about that at all, you have the right setting!
Hi curtis i am useing atomos ronin when i sm insert audio xlr input from my tascam but still my atomos shows. > no input < evin for vedio from my cemera hdmi also same , so plz can you help me for this ? .thanks
Hi Amir, unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the Ronin. You should probably contact ATOMOS support. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd thanks my friend for quick reply ,
Great review ... best audio reviews on the net.....
Thanks Victor!
This is really useful, thank Curtis. I'm about to invest in a GH5s and Ninja Inferno, and wonder if you could help with an audio question? I normally record 2 Sennheiser lav mikes via XLR into a Zoom H5, and I'd like to be able to record these plus the Zoom XY or shotgun mike into the Inferno in such a way that I have the 4 separate audio channels to mix in edit. If I run the Zoom line out into the GH5s line in and then HDMI to the Inferno, should this give me the 4 audio channels I'm looking for, or will it result in amalgamated audio (which is what happens on my Sony a6500)? I wonder if I need to run the lavs direct to the Inferno using the XLR adapter cable and the Zoom audio into the camera line in, then HDMI to the Inferno. Any advice much appreciated ;-)
Hi Alastair, wow, that’s a tough one. The first challenge will be getting everything in sync since there’s always latency with the HDMI output on cameras. It might work but sounds a little challenging, to be honest.
Curtis Judd Thanks Curtis, appreciate you coming back so quickly, I’ll let you know how I get on. The most important element for me is that the 4 channels are kept separate. I can most likely deal with sync issues in post if needs be. Or record background audio separately.
Not sure if the audio quality will be better going through the Zoom/camera line in/HDMI to Inferno, or direct to Inferno with XLR adapter cable. Time will tell!
Alastair, this is probably not what you wanted to hear, but I would probably forego the ATOMOS recorder for now and invest in an audio recorder with 4 inputs instead, like the Zoom F4. That will probably lend more value to most productions, but of course I’m being somewhat presumptuous since I don’t know what you’re shooting. Just food for thought.
Thanks very much Curtis, I'll certainly look into the F4. I've got an H5 and usually record 2 XLR lavs into that, but syncing everything in post is a hassle. I'd like the Atomos for the 4k 60p 422, focus control, on screen LUT etc so will probably still go for it. I have to shoot quite a lot of takes in noisy shopping malls and supermarkets where there is a lot of background noise and electronic interference. Often we need to do a mix of recorded dialogue with background ambiance, so having these on separate channels is really important. Mind you, the background stuff doesn't need to sync perfectly with dialogue so that makes life easier. The challenge is we usually need to be quick and mobile, so having everything on one fairly compact rig is a big help. Thanks very much for your advice, much appreciated.
How abbot if you used a Camera Preamp, like the JuicedLink BMC388, that give you out stereo balanced and it can be done to pas to the shogun,
¿Can you disable the shogun Preamp?
Thanks,
The Shogun can take mic or line level inputs via the XLR connectors on the XLR breakout cable. I'm not familiar with the JuicedLink BMC388 but if it can provide a balanced line level signal via XLR cable, then yes, that would work.
Hi Curtis,
It's me again. I used the Shogun to record from my PMW320. In playback via the Shogun, the audio is great. However, when I hook up to my Macbook Pro, there is no audio.
Can you help??
Atomos cannot tell me how to fix it.
Thanks,
Everton
Everton Oliphant with the video file, get info on Mac or properties on Windows - what does it say about audio?
How would you compare the H6 preamps to the Atomos’?
H6 are slightly cleaner
Curtis Judd, Thank you! Cheers from Oklahoma.
Do you think this is a better option than the Panasonic DMW-XLR1 audio adapter?
No, I think I'd prefer the XLR1.
Curtis,
Under sound: it had checked; play sound through selected sound device,
I changed it to; play thru internal speakers.
Everton Oliphant Did that fix it?
Great review Curtis. Just what I was looking for.
Our department recently purchased a Shogun Flame to go with another recent purchase, the Sony A7sii. I primarily want ed the Shogun for recording long events and the visual aids you mentioned in your review. I had been using the Zoom H4n for secondary audio and was hoping to use the Flame for both audio and video.
I'm a videographer, not a sound engineer but I was very disappointed in the preamps on the Shogun. Using the Sennheiser EW112p wireless mic system, the noise levels in the Shogun were unusably high when compared with theZoom H4n. I'm going to play with some settings to see if it can be improved at all but, at first run, I couldn't adjust the Flame and Sennheiser in any way that made the audio sufficiently loud without unreasonable hiss.
With the Sennheiser transmitter sensitivity at -30, The Zoom H4n can amp the signal up to -12 db easily with very little hiss. The Flame, with the same low hiss only brings the voices up to -20db. Bringing the Flame up so the voices are at -12db made the hiss unusably loud. Increasing the sensitivity of the transmitter and dropping the amp in the Flame didn't help.
If anyone is using the Flame for primary audio capture, I'd love to hear your hardware setup, software settings and experience.
Thanks Michael. Since I recorded this about 2.5 years ago, I should report that I have abandoned use of the Shogun for main audio and just let the camera feed scratch audio. That said, I love my Shogun for all its other visual features and am amazed that they're still adding new features via firmware.
Out of curiosity, what are you using for main audio?
My case is a little unusual since I'm an educator and reviewer. Mainly I use a Sound Devices 633 but I also have a MixPre-6, Zoom F8, F4, and a Tascam DR-60DmkII.
Hi, and thanks for your knowledge-sharing. I have the opportunity to buy this recorder at about US $600, and I am wondering if you would regard that at as a ok price for this device being three years after release? I would also buy it used, so I wonder if there is anything in particular I should check for to see if it is in proper shape? The thing is that I am looking for a recording-system for sound as well, and thought that this might save me buying a sound-recording device as it has the XLR-inputs... I live in Norway, so the prices are somewhat higher here than in the US, generally speaking...
Hi Hans, my Shogun is still in working condition today. The thing most at risk aside from any damage you can see on the outside of the unit is the internal fan. I would at the very least turn it on and have a listen to that to make sure it sounds like it is in good condition. I'm not a huge fan of the audio inputs on the Shogun. They produce a fair bit of self-noise which is too bad since they otherwise sound quite good. I hope this helps and best wishes!
Thanks!I’ll give it some thought. BTW do you know if the sound is enhanced by the recorder if you plug in the hdmi in and then out for use with a live-streaming program? This question applies to both the shogun and the Tascam dr 701d which also have hdmi in and out. The latter has been spotted at a store here for $450..
Hi again, The DR-701D will definitely record cleaner sound than the Shogun. I don't believe that the HDMI in/out change the quality at all either way. The audio is all digital by that point. Best wishes!
Thanks, Curtis
Thanks Curtis.
What cable did you use to plug into the Shogun's XLR input? Thanks.
Hi Matthew, I used a Lemo to XLR breakout cable which came with the Shogun. If yours did not come with one, you can find it here: amzn.to/2kYQpxs Lemo goes into the Shogun, XLR takes an XLR cable from a microphone or a mixer.
Thank you.
Can you compare the Shogun's preams with the ones of the zoom h5?
+Manuel Eisenkirchner I'd love to do that but don't have an H5 on hand. But I can tell you this: When I've compared the H6 (evidently has the same preamps as the H5) to the Tascam DR-60DmkII in the past, they were quite similar both in terms of sound and in terms of noise performance. Then in this episode I compared the Shogun and Tascam DR-60D. I would expect that the Shogun's preamps to be a little noisier than the H5, probably by around 3dB. The Shogun has a pretty warm sound with a rich low-end but is not as clean as decent audio recorders like the H5.
thank you! =)
Thanks Curtiss. Can you tell me what the 'embed audio' feature does please?
Hi Wayne, I believe that is the audio that is sent from the camera in the HDMI signal.
@@curtisjudd Ah OK. That makes sense thanks. Since all the other audio inputs for SDI and analogue are accounted for.
Hey Curtis my friend hope all is well love your vids man but would thus work with something like mixpre 6 ii as from as recording audio TY.
@@sobk718 Hey Carter hope you're well, yes, you can feed output from a MixPre-6 II to an ATOMOS recorder, though it isn't a super straight-forward. Unless the newer models have a 3.5mm input that can change to line level. Probably better off just sending the audio to camera.
can you plz explain to me ? :)lets say I want to record from 4 , or more mics at the same time, will any Shogun be able to record in separate tracks? I read in the manual, it can records 8 or 12 audio tracks?? but is it digial, and only 2 analoge tracks ? really confusing.
+per gunnar Merakerli The original Shogun has 2 microphone preamps. If you feed other audio channels over the HDMI feed, the Shogun can also record those. This means that if you want to record more than 2 microphones, they need to be recorded from the camera's preamps and then fed via HDMI to the Shogun. Does that make sense?
+Curtis Judd thx for quick respons :)I sont even own a camera yet, but have a recording studio, an plan to buy a SONY a7s ii. they say its gotg a good preamp. Maybe one doesnt need many mics in lot of situations, but .... if I then record 4 mics, lats say, I can treat them as seaprate track in SONY Vegas, right ? getting a seaprate audio recorder seem to me a lot of extra work, but SHogun seem to be good, when you also will need a monitor anyway, and even get better 4k formats than the a7sii... am I right, you agree ? :))
+per gunnar Merakerli No, unfortunately that won't work. With the Shogun, you have only 2 preamps. With the Sony A7SII you have a single stereo input. So in theory, you could record with three microphones, one connected to the Sony, and two XLR mikes connected to the Shogun. Does that make sense?
I'm sorry to bother you again, but I just wanted your opinion. I have two Rode Procaster mics plugged into the Zoom H4n Pro, which I have outputting into my A7S II Mic in port. Then I'm running HDMI out into my Inferno from the camera. Despite having the right channels set to record on the Inferno, and seeing visible levels when recording (and hearing it with monitoring headphones), when I play back the footage recorded into the Inferno, there is no audio. I tried while having the Zoom recording and not recording in case that was an issue. I am really enticed by the Zoom F4, especially because we'll have the flexibility to add more microphones (we will be using up to four) and it can record a backup track. The F4 has XLR out, which I plan to input into the Inferno directly and bypass the camera. Do you think I will have the same issue with it as the H4N, or should I go for just a regular mixer (Like a Mackie or Yamaha with XLR inputs and outputs)? I'm basically just trying to get the video and audio synced right into the Hard Drive on the Inferno. Thanks again for your help!
Hi Felipe, It should be possible to get the sound from the camera to the Inferno via HDMI. When you say you're seeing levels from the mic, is that on the Sony or the Atomos? It sounds like maybe the camera isn't sending the audio via the HDMI cable. Perhaps there is a setting in the Sony. Atomos support should be able to help as well.
You could also go with an F4 directly into the Atomos. To do this, the one thing you'll need to calibrate at first is a delay on the audio from the F4 so that it syncs properly with the video from the camera. There is a menu in the Atomos that allows you to set a delay on the audio. I found that setting this to 4 frames made it so that my GH4's picture would line up with audio from my recorder when routed directly to the Atomos. Good luck!
Curtis Judd thank you again for your help and reply! I'm seeing it on the atomos screen which is what was baffling me. I'm going to mess with it a bit more tomorrow when I get a chance to make sure I'm not doing something wrong. I'm definitely going to try the F4, I've heard great things about it and I saw your videos on it as well. Thank you again!
That is definitely strange. The good news is that the audio is getting to the Atomos. The support team there should be able to help in the meantime.
Curtis Judd yeah I'm going to call tomorrow if I don't figure it out. I've been setting up a studio for my company and pretty much had to figure everything out on my own and have my brain tied so it's possible I missed something simple when I was testing it. I'm more experienced in home theater a/v, so a lot of the same logic applies, but some of it is completely new to me. Thankfully there's a lot of people like you on the internet that can help. Thanks again!
We have a BIG issue with the Shogun on our Rig when powering the Tascam DR-60D by usb plugged into a p-tap either on the battery or the powerdock while feeding it directly into the Shogun or into the Sony A7s with Atomos Shogun 4K we get a Feedback loop. This does not happen when we un-plug the usb and power by AA batteries. The Tascam works great with p-tap usb power when we try the same thing with our Sony FS100 but NOT with the A7s/Shogun where we get a Feedback loop??? Video: ua-cam.com/video/MXgGS4LcbWQ/v-deo.html
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the Shogun has any form of limiting, which makes the levels more critical and vulnerable.
Correct.
So if the preamps on the Shogun aren't the cleanest, what IS the cleanest preamp you've ever used?
Sound Devices 633, Allen & Heath SQ-5, Mackie Onyx preamps, Zoom F4 and F8, and even the Tascam DR-60DmkII have cleaner preamps than the original ATOMOS Shogun.
Thanks Brother Judd. That's quite a price range on those preamps but I imagine it's like everything else where you get what you pay for. Sound Devices and Allen & Heath are in the $3000 range, but Mackie Onyx are under $200 and the Zooms are $550 and around $800. I'll have to keep an eye on Craigslist.
Curtis, were we listening to the same track? I found lots of background noise and hum in the background for the Shogun in your recording. The Tascam was much much better! Am I missing something?
AliAtusa No, you probably just have better ears than I do. :) I cannot hear much above 15kHz so perhaps you're hearing more up there. In measurements, I'm seeing a 2dB difference so people with sensitive ears may find the Shogun's preamps to be too noisy. In practice, I find that I never opt to use the Shogun's mic inputs. The Tascam does the job for me 99% of the time.
Curtis Judd Yes, that's possible because I was listening with very sensitive ear phones and I generally have a very sensitive ear. Unfortunately, I need to use the Shogun for its audio as well as the video. So, I'll have to play around and see what I can do. Thanks for doing the test though. Best wishes from Boston. :)
Izotope RX4 Dialogue Denoiser works well but is pricey. Audition's noise removal is pretty good too.
Hi Curtis, thanks for this. How do I record 8 channels simultaneously into the Shogun? Is it even possible to get an 8in lemo connector? Thanks for your help
Hi Stefan, the Shogun can take two channels via the mic inputs and the rest from the HDMI feed. So you’d need to find a way to get more channels in to the camera which will then send those channels via HDMI to the Shogun.
Aaah... ok, challenge. lol... Thanks for that. Keep up the good work.
Hey Curtis,
No, it still did not do the trick.
I don't know what else to do.
I can't even open the sd card shot in the camera itself.
Everton O
Everton Oliphant Message me and maybe you can get a copy of the file over to me. I'll look at it.
Is there a way to not spend a hundred bucks on a 10 pin /xlr cable?
Not that I know of…
Thanks for this test! Kind of disappointing to see that the audio is again an afterthought as it is with many other devices. Good audio electronics really don't cost an arm and an leg. Tascam can make a whole unit for 225 euro's! So why Atomos apparently decided to go the average route is beyond me, especially considering this is not some consumer toy but a professional recorder with a price tag of more than 2000 euro's.
Nepwk Yes, a little disappointing. I think they were hurrying to get a 4K recorder to market so they had a lot of problems to solve to get there and audio was not at the top of the list. However, while these aren't the cleanest preamps in terms of noise, they actually sound decent. They impart a little bit of warmth. But then again, the whole Lemo connector off the side of the recorder is a little unwieldy. I find that I still just default to my Tascam recorder instead of using the Shogun for audio. The post sync process is worth the better audio I seem to get that way.
+Curtis Judd I noticed in the video you said that you liked the Shogun better but here you say you like the Tascam better.. Care to clarify? I am really looking to this for a single setup for my 5DIII and possibly the A7sII (when it comes out). Any thoughts on using this with the 5DIII vs the Tascam 60DII or Tascam 70D?
+Ryan G productions Yes, the Shogun's preamps are warmer sounding but they have more noise. By warmer, I mean that it seems to produce a little more low-end presence. However, I've found the noise floor to be pretty annoying and requires clean-up in post pretty much every time. If you're ok with the noise floor cleanup, then its a good solution. But if you cannot afford for that to be part of your workflow, the Shogun probably isn't the right audio kit for you.
+Curtis Judd Thanks for the review and for the note. I was hoping to get something to NOT have to do audio cleanup later. I just don't want to deal with it. That being said I ALSO needed a monitor as well, but I might just send this back, but I did buy the Fethead and hoping that might help a bit so I don't have to increase the gain, thus lower the noise floor (right?)..
Last thing: I was trying to figure out how to get the audio directly from the 5DIII to the shogun, I know the HDMI won't pass audio from the 5D to the Shogun, but I was wondering if you knew a way.
+Ryan G The FetHead should definitely help. Gain staging with multiple preamps can work quite nicely.
As for getting audio from the 5DIII to the Shogun, hmm. There may be some hack ways to do it (3.5mm out of the 5D then adapt to XLR somehow?) but I wouldn't expect that to work well.
What are you doing for a living?
I have a day job and I do photography and corporate video gigs in the evenings and on weekends.
Curtis Judd
Ah ok, is your day job related to the type of content you produce on youtube or maybe even something totally different :D?
FrozenSkiller Totally different. I'm just a hack learning how to do all of this. :)
Curtis Judd Pretty sophisticated for a hack, man.
Another Podcast Thanks!
this guy makes me feel like am idiot I wanna be like him when I grow up
Technical foul.
@@curtisjudd you help us so much thanks