Did Doctor Who Fail Jodie Whittaker?
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- The Power of the Doctor is shrinking into the rear-view mirror, and a new Doctor Who era has begun. It's a good time to assess Jodie Whittaker's years as the Thirteenth Doctor - so what did and didn't work?
0:00 Intro
0:32 Find us in podcast form!
2:01 Series 14 filming begins
4:03 Missing Sarah Jane Adventures episodes
5:26 Was the Jodie Whittaker era a success or a failure?
17:23 Fan submissions
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Technical issues meant that Ellie’s video was captured at roughly 1FPS this week - this will be rectified in future!
Also, just to reiterate what was said in the video: you can find these podcast videos on UA-cam FIRST, but they will also be available on various podcast feeds eventually.
Thanks for the support, and have a smashing weekend! 💙💙
Thanks for the info. I thought my data had dropped through the floor! Great video both, lovely to see you again. Very interesting discussion!
I agree.The Doctor was always uncaring & feeling.The reason is that they are very old.They've seen friends fall by the wayside.That makes it hard 2 care.
She hasn't a frame to her name
The era was defined by writers committing the worst sin of Doctor Who. I liked Jodie a lot, but they made the Doctor boring. I legitimately don't remember most of the episodes.
There was this moment in her first appearance where she might be more an engineer Doctor, but that wasn't really explored until the very end. It might have made the show interesting.
The problem wasn't Jodi, but the story.
1. Too many companions. So many that they needed to spit up the story so they had something to do. Which also cut into us understanding the Doctor.
2. Too much Scooby-Doo type story. Oh let's go on to help people, vs normally they were just on an adventure, and helped people on their way.
3. Really not writing the story that the Doctor was a woman. Going back in time meant people would treat her differently and really really on Gram more.
4. Lack of an overall arch. The last season overcompensated with it just being one long story. But the previous were unrelated stories.
5. No growth of the characters. 9th learned to like himself again. 10th learned to be responsible with his powers and to let go. 11th learned to be kind. 12th learned to help others. 13th didn't have much of an arch.
I think the script failed every actor in the show, and I think because of that perhaps Jodie really just never fully understood her character. For me, her lines were always flat, like if someone was faking being overly interested in everything all the time. It actually got a little grating after a while when all you ever got from her character was fake awe or slight upset. Her doctor had no layers and it showed.
I think there's something in what you say about Jodie's delivery being flat or somehow lacking honesty. I posted earlier to suggest it was because of a general lack of understanding the scripts, or lack of rehearsal time or rewrites.
13th Doctor isn't caring or nurturing 😂 She didn't help Dan get a house after she returned him. Donna Noble had a winning lottery ticket! Favourites 😂
Have you seen any Classic Who? The Doctor was always like that she's an alien just some Doctors are better than others some are caring some aren't because the Doctor has her mind on saving the universe than waste time dealing with peoples feelings. She cares shes just more private and doesn't waste time.
For those interested the main topic starts at 5:32. You can skip all the fluff at the beginning. You're welcome.
Hearing that Jodie Whitaker was a great actress outside of Doctor Who, makes me sad. She might have not been as good as Tennant or Smith, but she wouldn't be as hated as she is now if things were a little bit different.
The reason why Missy worked as a female Master is that she had good writing and was joy to see no matter what the episode was.
13 didn't work for 3 reasons:
1.Chibnail went overboard with 3 companions for the first time since the days of the 5th Doctor (Not counting Big Finish).
2. having too much politics all at once (I mean Doctor Who was always political, it's just Chibnail didn't implement it right. Nixon in series 6 was fine since he actually was a real life figure and actually contributed to helping the Doctor. While the guy in the Chibnail era, (I forgot his name lol) was made up only for Anti-Trump propaganda. I don't care if you like Trump or not, making fun of him is what us Americans do. Doctor Who is a *BRITISH* show, it's best if current American Politics stay out of it entirely. Richard Nixon in Series 6 was fine as I said because it wasn't mocking America, what Chibnail did was too far.)
3. And most importantly: Changing too many things at once. To be fair, living up to Murray Gold is a hard task to do, but couldn't they keep SOME people from 2005 to 2017?
So a female Doctor can work, it's just bad management that made RTD come out of retirement and made her fail as a Doctor.
When I watched Power of The Doctor, I saw an opportunity in actress whose talents had been wasted
Hopefully Jody will be given an opportunity to play the Doctor one day through the eyes of a more competent writer
She’s done terrific work with Chibnall…when they were doing Broadchurch. I just don’t think she was a good match for the show 4 Chibnall was a good choice for showrunner.
From what I've heard she's a good actor. The thing is there's only so much any actor can do if they're given a shit script
Peter Capaldi had to work with some lack lustre writing, but you could never fault his performance.
@@LloydEWatson1983 as did every other actor ever to play the Doctor. Nothing as constant in Doctor Who as the occasional bad script. Fortunately many were at least somewhat salvaged by the actors.
Agreed look at Patrick Stewart he was a Shakesperan-trained actor and even his character was bad in the first two seasons of Star Trek the Next Generation because the writing was so horrible.
I felt like Capaldi was a great actor but I hated his run. He was overshadowed by a companion that didn’t actually act like a companion but like she was the doctor and he was beneath her. I dont think his acting saved his run any more than Jodie could save the bad writing of her run. If they write an overstuffed exposition of dialogue, it doesn’t matter how well she delivers it, its still just too much.
Also speaking as someone not from the UK, I found her much harder to understand than the previous doctors. I think they should have used a more common English accent. I know this is a UK show but so much of the audience is now outside the UK and they need to remember not all of us cant understand the nuances of a northern accent. Sorry but its the truth. It doesn’t make me like her any less but im sure Im not alone in feeling this way
@@LloydEWatson1983 Nothing Capaldi had to work with was as execrably bad as what Whittaker got. Besides, I'm one of those who doesn't think the writing was bad during Capaldi's era anyway - but, whatever it was, it was miles better than the clunky, exposition-heavy drivel that Jodie had to deal with week after week.
The first doctor started with three companions, and the fifth doctor started with three companions. The problem was simply the writing. "We're on a spaceship being eaten by a pokémon" is a premise, not an episode, but literally nothing else happened that wasn't in that sentence. Jodie did the best she could with what she had, but as with the 6th and 7th doctors, if the writing isn't there the actor can only elevate the material so far.
Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant, and Matt Smith got enough good scripts you could just ignore the crossover with the weakest link or the absorbaloff or the olympic scribble monster. Peter Capaldi had a lot more stinkers but still way more hits than misses, you didn't blame the _actor_ for "the moon hatches and he abandons everyone for a bit" because you'd seen him hit multiple home runs.
Jodie's tenure started with her getting to say exactly one word and touch one button on the tardis console, which immediately exploded and the tardis turned on its side and shook up and down to drop her from a great height, then fled to another planet. (Kinda hard not to read into that at the time.) Then she got a Rosa Parks story that didn't mention Claudette Colvin. In the third doctor's last story the Giant spiders made out of pipe cleaners were far more compelling than Chibnall's attempt.
I think Chris Chibnal was out of his depth. He knew what he had to include, but had no real idea of how to do it. Thank The Stars we now have someone in charge who not only knows what is expected, but has his own ideas that are always groundbreaking. Chibnall should not have faffed around with the Doctor'd origins, and the "Timeless Child " sequences should be expunged from the Doctor's Canon.
The black Female Doctor was actually good....and unique....
YES!!! And she is quite keen to play more of the Dr too; I wish she would, because, when she was confronted with Jodie, I was excited to see her as opposed to Jodie, and thinking, "Now here is the real Dr at last!" (much as I felt when seeing the Return of Dr Mysterio, after almost giving up on Capaldi, and thinking, "THE DR IS BACK, AT LAST!!!") ;-)
@@clairepedersen2114 the black female doctor has a stronger presence on screen than the 13th doctor.........she carries her screen better.....more imposing.....
@@clairepedersen2114 The real Doctor? Since when has the Doctor been unnecessarily cruel, uncaring, cold-hearted and didn't even bat an eye when their companion was murdered? No offense to you, but the Fugitive was every worst aspect of the Doctor ever combined in one incarnation, and I can only assume that it's a testament to this day and age that people would rather have a imposing, "strong leader" than the actual Doctor. 🤷
The likes of Gielgud and Olivier would have struggled with the garbage scripts Jodie had to work with
That said I feel that while she is a respected actress she was hopelessly miscast and the wrong choice for the role
The only issue with the last three series and specials. Chibnall. That's it. Jodie did the best she could do with the scripts but there is only so much you can do.
I was always concerned that she went in cold without having watched any previous or classic Who episodes. I think that's why her only frame of reference was her pal David Tennant hence a performance that tried to echo him (badly) at times. Chibnall also encouraged this approach probably in the hope that she would come up with something new and different. Matt Smith did his research and therefore arrived with a fully developed version of his own whilst also having a sense of what had come before. Had Jody have done this she may have been more likely to have challenged scenes like the cancer one with Graham as was appallingly handled and not like the doctor at all. Just an opinion!
That is a very good point, and I do think Matt Smith struck a great balance in many ways, between the old and the new, the "old soul" and the youthful, at times childish spirit, the light and the dark - probably because, as you say, he did do his research. There is a problem of balancing the light and the dark in the Dr, since Tennant brought the dark to the fore, in the Waters of Mars, with the Time Lord Victorious thing. As I have said, Smith got the balance pretty much right; in the beginning of his era, Capaldi tended to overdo the dark side, which was why I failed to warm to him at first (a bit of dark is intriguing, as in the case of Tennant, but let's not overdo it, Capaldi!). Jodie's Dr hardly seems to know about the dark side at all; she seems to be all about the light side, which makes her light, bright and bubbly, altogether a bit too "Pollyanna-ish" for my taste.
On the other hand, Tom Baker also did no research at all, on purpose; he only learnt his own lines, no one else's, so that he could appear to be genuinely surprised by what they came out with - which led to his perpetual look of wide-eyed surprise, as, for me, the iconic and quintessential Dr. Maybe Jodie was aiming for something like this, but she did not quite pull it off, unfortunately.
Well written. Well stated.
👏👏
Yes, Chris Chibnall and Doctor Who failed Jodie.
Just look how she was written, both before the Jo Martin Doctor and after.
Before and after Chibnall wrote her as if he was Trying to show how a woman Should Not be the Doctor.
After she went out and Sang a song, Chibnall introduced Jo Martin and Stressed the Timeless Child scenario to Discredit Jodie's tenure.
I tried REALLY hard to like this era. I tried more than once. I’m one of those outliers that loved Capaldi from the angry eyebrows cameo in the 50th special to run, laugh, be kind. I still think Deep Breath is one of the best New Doctor introduction episodes. You can’t convince me that Missy’s character arc from start to finish isn’t one of the best, and most heartbreaking, redemption stories in recent television memory. I was excited to see where Chibnall and Jodi were going to go.
And then the Doctor regenerates in (and wrecks) the TARDIS, falls to earth, has a scrambled brain. Has to fight off an alien menace with no TARDIS, no screwdriver, and with the help of some plucky human companions manages to save the day from the Atraxi. Oh wait… the bad taste in the mouth started right in Jodi’s first episode. Chibnall promised us new ideas, new monsters, a new direction. He gave us discount Atraxi, rip-off Amy and Rory, and recycled concepts that somehow he still managed to ruin. He gave us The 11th Hour without any of the heart, humor, or a Doctor-defining moment like “Hello, I’m The Doctor. Basically… run”.
Yes, I’m aware that “The Woman Who Fell to Earth” has plenty of its own story beats. But seriously… add in fish fingers and custard, and bring the TARDIS back at the end of the episode instead of in the next and tell me what you have.
And then… Spyfall. Now listen, it’s a good episode. It’s fun. But to me I feel like Missy hadn’t been gone long enough for them to just bring evil lunatic The Master back. It was jarring. Even if it isn’t the actual case, it felt like Chibnall saw how poorly his “original” story ideas were received and he broke the emergency glass and pulled The Master out of the hat in an attempt to slow the bleeding of the audience. If this had been a season or 2 later I probably wouldn’t have an issue with it, but essentially bringing The Master back after just 1 season almost DEMANDS a comparison with what we had been given before. What was the motivation for Missy, what was her plan, why did she do the things she did? You can answer those, and they were explained to you without the use of exposition. If you show us the confession dial and the The Doctor sent it to Missy (and also what a stroke of foretelling that was… Heaven Sent is a masterpiece), then we know why Missy is there without needing an explanation spoon-fed to us with dialogue.
Anyone figure out why The Master destroyed Gallifrey yet? I mean sure there was some talking about it but I’m really, really hoping it doesn’t legitimately boil down to “Grrr Timeless Child I am ANGRY! HULK SMASH!”
Could Jodi have portrayed a great Doctor? I don’t know. I’m sure she could have. We never really got the chance to find out. Could ANYONE have been a great Doctor with Chibnall as showrunner? I doubt it. You might get a flash of brilliance every now and then, a few episodes a season that give you hope things might turn around… but no. They didn’t. Jodi was utterly failed by the writing, far worse than some of those stinkers they laid on Capaldi. Chibnall promised a new direction, new ideas, new monsters. He gave us bad fanfiction and a gremlin that eats everything and somehow that makes it a universe-ending menace that takes an entire episode to figure out how to stop.
Totally agree!!! People use to say to me it was because she was a woman and the doctor shouldn’t be a woman. But that wasn’t the issue for me. It shouldn’t matter what gender a time lord is- but the doctor is suppose to be the most intelligent person in the room- they did not write Jodie like that and she deferred way to much to her companions. If anything they went stereotypically female which is such a shame and very much an opportunity missed to break some of those stereotypes and create a strong, powerful character. I was very disappointed with Jodie’s doctor and feel it was very much a missed opportunity for something great. Now if missy was the new doctor- that I would get on board with- she had a charisma about her that Jodie just seemed to lack. Or that mystery doctor woman too!
Chibnall shows what a brilliant actor with a good understanding of the character can do even if the writing sometimes fails him.
Jodi did not have the understanding or the capability needed
Under the Moffat era, even a really bad episode was saved by the interpretation of Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi.
But in the other hand, a bad episode in the Chibnall's era, wasn't save by Jodie.
That is way I think her interpretetion was, in the best of the cases, just ok.
Don’t forget that Broadchurch was also inconsistent- the first season was the only really strong one.
biggest problem with Jodie's era was dialogue ... it seemed that none of the writers could write it like so many I know Jodie has the acting chops to do ANYTHING -- this was not on her
Oh hell yes. My wife who was a huge fan of Broadchurch was looking forward to this, and consistently across her era, she said "Jodie's a way better actor than that, what's going on here?" It's certainly not HER.
Being a great actor sadly doesn't mean you're right for every part. Plenty of actors who played the doctor aren't actually the best actors but did have that certain quality that made them magnetic to watch. Jodie just didn't have that in this part. She had all the charisma and authority of a kindergarten teacher.
Not really a 'good' actress.
@@Vincornelis Maybe that's because Chibnall and his writing team wrote her character with the charisma and authority of a kindergarten teacher... indeed, a _scatterbrained_ teacher with verbal diarrhoea. I can't recall any other Doctor having to contend with such clunky, exposition-heavy dialogue. I can't recall any previous Doctor whose _written_ character so often plays second-fiddle to a supporting cast member, or cowers into the background saying how clueless she is and/or apologising for letting people down. All those traits are clearly there, in the scripts, from the get-go, so I can only wonder what Chibnall was smoking when he chose to characterise his leading lady in this way.
@@ftumschk That's not how charisma works. Actors can play absolutely evil characters who wantonly murder anyone who get in their way, and still be super charismatic, you'll agree yes? If you agree that's the case you can understand that the charisma comes from the actor as well as the writing, Jodie having zero charisma means she failed too.
@@ftumschk Also, the supporting characters where better actors than her, that's why she had to play second fiddle to them so much.
Oh, Chibnall & the writing team completely failed Jodie. I really like her Doctor, but the writing just wasn’t there most of the time. The fact they had her go in blind was a terrible decision too. As an actor, you should always be completely informed about what you’re working on. Even the MCU actors are given just enough to know what the hell’s going on in the story and with their characters.
When Charlie Cox was cast as Daredevil he read every DD comic & graphic novel he could get his hands on. By the time he got the scripts he knew DD lore like the Pope knows the New Testament.
When you’re dealing with a large, established fanbase & years or decades worth of stories & lore that’s just par for the course.
@@grahamstrouse1165 Exactly! If you’re dealing with something you know has an established fanbase and you’re now apart of that thing, you as an actor should be able to freely indulge in it’s history in order to be informed. Makes no sense to go the other way.
Chibnail failed Joke because he wrote her in as a Doctor Who fan girl and not a time lord
Excellent sum-up... I had really high hopes when they announced Jodi as the next Doctor and ended up being completely underwhelmed.
Jodie didn't help herself by refusing to go back and watch earlier Doctors, but the true guilty party in this is Chibnall. He's a long time fan, he should know better.
She couldn't go back and watch the old episodes. The the thought of those those male doctors was oppressing her. She was too busy having her feelies hurt to actual study the history of her character.
Homie. It doesn't matter if she watch them or not. That isn't how it works
@@hinduismwithpremananddasbhagatwow u didn't even watch the video
The worst quality of Chibnail was in treating Doctor Who as if the audience was mostly children, and mostly *dumb* children as well.
The Chibnall/Whittaker era of Doctor Who was essentially a 3 season remake of the classic BBC comedy The Plank, except that the original Plank of wood from The Plank was a much better actor than the entire TARDIS crew!
I still don't know if aspects of 13s character were intentional or not. Yes she might be chirpier than some of the others, but how many past Hartnell would have left Dan homeless?
I completely stopped watching Doctor Who once Jodie took over. Between Chib and Jodie I couldn't take it any longer. Thank heavens we are starting again !
So glad I found your channel - I’ve been watching the show since 1982 so I love your honest & knowledgeable discussions on the show - keep it up!
Well hello there - glad to have you with us!
11:38 This is what I thought they did a very good job at with Missy, having her embrace her femininity but it still being a recognizable version of the Master, it was still the same character as John Simm's version, and I think they did a great job at that
Michelle was awesome as Missy!
Aye, that she WAS!
🥂
Absolutely, completely. I'm a huge fan of Jodie since the wonderful film 'Venus', never disliked her in anything until Doctor Who. The first female Doctor, a chance to do a genuinely NEW incarnation of this fine role, brimful of female energy and a brand new start for the show. What did they do? Have her running around, gurning and telling bad jokes like Tennant's worst moments, with some truly dreadful scripts. I'll continue to follow Jodie in anything she does but I'll do my best to forget her era on Who.
Again not her f****** fault it was the writer's fault she did her best with what they threw up at her
I respect your view, but why should this regeneration suddenly have been full of "female energy" and what is that anyway? Same software, different case. That's what this is about and as a woman myself I am eternally grateful that the Doctor was not suddenly acting all weird and "girly". They were still the same alien: kind, lonely, a bit broken, a bit mad, a bit childish and loving the universe. :)
in my opinion i kinda hated jodie whittaker as the doctor especially flux as the stroies were connected to each other and the scripts were way too complicated. its like in tennants era a grandma could understand any episode
I've always liked it when the doctor has multiple companions. It's one of the things I love about Classic Who, but of course, Classic Who had 6 episodes or so (2 in the 6th and 7th eras) per serial to give something for each companion to do. The Second doctor with Zoe and Jamie was brilliant, just like 9, Rose and Jack.
It again goes back to writing. Star Trek writers (at least the good ones) can take an ensemble cast of 8 characters and give them each a solid episode and flesh out the characters over several years, this especially started with DS9. The failure of character development goes right back to the failure in the writing room.
Chibnall strikes me, at least in his Doctor who writing going all the way back to season 7 and the atrocious Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and the intriguing failure that was The Power of Three, he knows how to write a great build up, knows how to back the doctor into a corner, but has absolutely no way of knowing how to resolve the story without a deus ex. In the Power of Three, he literally waves the magic wand and fixes the problem. Essentially, his resolutions are usually contrived and rely on exposition.
I think was one of the worst era by side the sixth Doctor unfortunately. People think is this first time that its happens, but no Doctor Who is old enough to have problems in other eras too.
I would disagree that Whitaker did the best with what she was given. I'm pretty sure she and Chibnall both agreed not to lean into any type related to her sex, which made her act in part similar to what was most popular, that being Tennant and Smith's Doctors. I agree with Ellie in that if they had leaned more into her as a woman, she wouldn't have come across as a blank slate that couldn't decide between being funny, awkward, or angry.
Absolutely! I found the direction they gave her to be quite weak. I felt like she never had a moment that left me stunned or in awe. I just wouldn't get excited whenever I saw her onscreen, and that's very depressing for me to say. She shouldn't have been written as a happy go lucky doctor. The only times I actually enjoyed her doctor was in those scenes from 'once, upon time'. I think she worked better as a more authorative dry doctor (sort of like capaldi in a way). Idk, it just suited her better. As much as I respect Chibnall for how he treats his cast and crew, I can't just pretend that I enjoyed his writing. A lot of the dialogue was usually bland. I can just imagine what it would have been like if someone like RTD or the Moff explored the timeless child storyline. How they would've written 13's reaction to it all! Or some other accomplished writer. Jodie has the acting chops for that! Also, I think flux should have been an 8 part thing. But it most likely had to do with the bbc rather than Chibnall so I won't blame him. Series 11-Flux (tho I enjoyed flux, it was too short and rushed the storyline imho) had so much potential and it was utterly wasted. I hope Jodie pops up in spinoffs and audios, she deserves better written storylines instead of being written in such a rushed way.
Peter Davidson is probably the only Doctor who could pull off "happy go lucky" as a job description.
the difference between the eras is the bbc only wanted to cancel when collin starred whereas in jodie's time they wanted to ruin the show and its canon. the total ruination came in one doctors time swhere the cancelation took 2 doctors to come to fruition.
Most doctors have one episode (or half an episode?) of "oh my goodness I'm so new at this, I don't know what I'm doing!!". I counted -- 13th had 11 of them. That's appalling writing right there.
Also, I had my reservations about Jodie Whittaker specifically... I didn't think she had the stage presence to play a character that old (and this was even before all the multiple histories of the timeless child, which, eh). You put Olivia Coleman in that role, all eyes are going to be on Olivia Coleman. The Ruth-doctor, I believed as The Doctor, for the same reason. "Oh, brown skin? Guessing I'm not ginger, then." (For example.) It snaps. It's entirely her own, and also entirely The Doctor. I want to see more of her. It's hard to tell, because the writing let Whittaker down SO badly, but I haven't seen anything to dispel my initial impression about her. She's... faithful...to the character, the kind of actor that can make good writing sing, but I haven't seen that something that makes her the real star of the show.
(it's the internet, ymmv.)
The only thing I think Jodie did wrong was not stamping her personality on the character unlike previous Doctors who injected so much of themselves into it, she kept rigidly to what she was given by the script or director. Because of this the character was so inconsistent, moral compass spinning all over the place, it's one thing to think that her basically ignoring Graham's cancer fears as out of character but it's hard to tell what was actually supposed to be IN character for this Doctor. Calling it cruel to kill the giant spider that was slowly dying anyway only to then trap the rest to suffocate and cannibalise each other, chastising that guy in the first episode for lashing out at the alien that was hunting him for no reason, weaponizing the Master's skin colour against him etc ... all these things from the hero?
Have you ever seen her in person? Mrs Whittaker absolutely DID add her own personality to the role. In reality she is just as energetic and positive. She is talking 100 miles per hour so her Doctor really held a LOT of her own self. 🙂
Also, you are aware that the cancer scene was actually based on Chibnall's own experience with the disease (he revealed in DWM that he was diagnosed at the age of 22)? I feel like too many people do not take a moment to listen to interviews and the actual cast & crew. Also, I wonder if people actually notice the double standard they apply to this show? When Tennant's Doctor tortured the Family of Blood and murdered the Racnoss hatchlings that was apparently okay? When Eccleston's Doctor didn't care the least bit about the trauma he put Jackie and Mickey through by bringing Rose back a year late, that was fine? When Smith's Doctor dissolved Amy's doppelganger right in front of Rory's eyes without warning him whatsoever, that was absolutely humane and caring?
How comes that the Doctor's tendency to not always make the right choices was always totally acceptable, but as soon as she looks female every little thing is suddenly out of character? Yes, she decided that letting this spider die a natural death (awful though it might be) would be better than having it be riddled with bullets - because you do realise that spiders don't just have a brain and heart that you can just shoot through to kill with one shot? And yes, of course we can debate over whether Ten's burning the alien spider babies was better than Thirteen locking Earth spiders in a room that had external air supply but where they would eventually run out of food. But when we do, we should also talk about how these spiders, unlike the Racnoss, were a man-made problem and since when does the Doctor solve those for us anyway?
The Doctor has never been a perfect hero, and I really wonder why people expected them to be one now. Only because they had a female body or why? 🤷
@@TiaKisu I'm basing the 'sticking to the scripts' comment on an interview with Jodie Whittaker where she said as much, mixed with how scattered the character felt on screen.
Not not what your comment about her being a woman is in response to, I said nothing to suggest that was a problem. In fact after Michelle Gomez's fantastic portrayal of the Master I was very much looking forward to 13th Doctor antics.
Perhaps regarding the cancer talk scene Chibnall could have either written it with another character, one who isn't the main role-model of the show or he could have had the Doctor say what he feels he needed to hear in that real life scenario, cementing another aspect worth looking up to.
I think Chibnall's era in general failed. The ratings might've started well, but they sank to abysmal levels as time went on. He wasn't a great writer to begin with, but he was an even worse producer.
My Doctor Who buff friend told me before we saw anything that Chibnall didn't really want the role as producer or took it unwillingly. Maybe that says something......
@@matthwe3468 Yes, it's no secret that Chibnall had to be convinced to take over from Moffat. And no surprise, too. Nobody wants to do the job of showrunner anymore, considering each of them got so much hate for what they did. RTD was accused of pushing the "gay agenda" and turning Who into a soap opera, Moffat allegedly even reicevd death threats over "killing the show" (under him the ratings went from more than 8 million viewers consolidated to only 5.4 million viewers) and the hate that Chibnall received ... well, you can see it here in the comment section. 🤷 Mark Gatiss already called being Who's showrunner a (quote) "poisonded chalice" and RTD never really planned to return as showrunner either. He only wanted to do a mini-series or a few specials after the lockdown watch-alongs made him feel nostalgic. But I guess once again they couldn't find anyone else to take over, so RTD stepped in. Eternally unhappy fans and aggressive hate are much more detrimental to this show than an era which didn't click with many viewers could ever be.
@@TiaKisu That's very interesting. I didn't know that. Personally speaking I would love Mark Gatiss to take a shot. But after what you have just said, I can understand.
Interesting choice of words “caring and nurturing” in regards to a female doctor. She was definitely a mix bag but, respectfully, I wouldn’t describe her with those words in particular. Overall though, jodie was wasted on chibnall and the writing team.
Now that the Chibnall era is over I actually look forward to the potential of future special episodes having Jodie/13 back as a guest, hopefully with better writing.
I agree!
Big Finish 13? Sign me up.
She was never given air to breath, from an overcrowded Tardis to 10 episodes a season, the Timeless Child storyline which, if the casting role was inevitably controversial, why then create a stab more fatal? The writing aside, which is a common complaint, there was that annoying stereotype she did as though she was a children's TV star, many actors can fix a script so if she wasn't playing the role as fun and a little camp at times and balanced some straight acting then maybe she wouldn't be aggravating at times.
Well to be fair when Covid happened, it was possibly the worst time for Jodie to play as The Doctor along with Mandip as Yaz. If they kept season 3 with 11 episodes again then it would've worked out and especially would've played out the romance between The Doctor and Yaz a little better. I truly hope that Jodie will come back for either a special or/and maybe as well one more season for Jodie as a sort of second chance for her and maybe have a proper ending to her and Yaz. But other than that, I think she did alright as The Doctor and the wrong in here is us, the fans. The Doctor Who die-hard fans that expected way too much from her
The acting like past Doctors has been a thing for a long time. It is because their brain has been mixed up due to every cell in the body changing during regeneration. my favorite part was when she is confused by being called ma'am. The I was a white haired Scotsman was classic Doctor response. Lol.
The 13th Doctor is the modern who equivalent to the 6th doctor.
We had a doctor played by a great doctor, some cool ideas here and there but Colin’s and Jodie’s eras were handled poorly if not terribly.
Hopefully she gets redeemed by Big Finish like the 6th doctor too
Whoa! That is unfair to Jodie; Colin Baker's Dr was way worse, imo!
The scripts were horrible it was like bad fan fiction at best, and Jodi was way out of her depths it seemed liked she watched a couple of Tennant and Smith episodes and decided that’s what she wanted to portray. Nobody on this series had no idea about the doctor and it showed with the scenarios. All throughout the series I keep hearing how great Yaz is and yet I honestly can’t remember anything she did that made her great. And that summed up the complete Chibs era why show it when I can just have someone say it.
The problem I had was the story telling. Almost all the time I didn't know what was happening. The only clear epsiode of jodies was Kerblam!
I think they are equally culpable.... she didn't help herself by a) saying that anyone could play the doctor in an interview before she started and b) slagged of the core viewership in an interview on a pod cast, again before she started filming...
Say it how it is, Chibnall failed Jodie, not the show. He focused way too much on subverting the audience and inserting his fan stories and didnt do any good storytelling. Jodie wouldve been far better if RTD or Moffat wouldve been in charge of it.
I do think Capaldi should have got another season while the new regime really got things in order for their new era.
That's one of those questions which has and will continue to cause debate and discussion. Like with all Doctors had high hopes for the Whitaker era. Not seen Jodi in anything else when she became the Doctor, now watched Broadchurch and Journeyman(2017 film).
In those roles felt more development of the characters over the series and film. Whereas never felt the 13th Doctor really evolved(I know its unfair to compare Doctors). The 12th Doctor in Once Upton a time isn't the same as Deep Breath as an example.
Felt some story arcs sounded good on paper but poorly executed on screen, the three companions is difficult to have as all plus the Doctor and Villian need to have meaningful contributions.
Was some great moments but too many episodes in which it just didn't click for me.
The new Villians didn't feel as a genuine threat to the Doctor. All in all not a terrible run but could snd should have been better.
I saw so little of Jodie's Doctor, I genuinely can't tell if she's a good actress or not. I don't think I've seen her in anything else... so idk if Chibnall failed her, she failed us, or they failed us... but damn. I wouldn't watch any more. Maybe if Davies did a season with her or something.
Edit: For reference, I watched her first episode, an episode with "the same title" as her finale (on an illegal site), and her actual final episode. So I kind of disagree that she was good in her first episode but the episode sucked around her. I think they were both bad, tbh. That's why I didn't bother with her 2nd episode. And with all the crap I heard, especially with the massive retcon... and then the other 2 episodes I saw... I have ZERO interest in going back and giving her/Chibnall any more of chance.
Jodie is brilliant in Broadchurch.
She's also good in Black 🪞 Mirror, & "Get Santa".
An ex of mine introduced me to "Classic" Who, when it came out they were relaunching the series in 2005. For me, Christopher Eccleston's rendition, was my first Doctor. His opening intro sealed the deal..."Nice to meet you, Rose, Run for your life!" LOL I was so sad when he left the series, Tennant to this day is one of my favorites. Hated Smith's, Hated Capaldi's even worse, but in both cases they grew on me. To this day Capaldi's Zygon War Speech is one of my top most watched moments, so much truth in that segment. I was hyped for Whittaker's, first season of here was MEH, there were definite moments that if you paid attention, were call backs to earlier incarnations, like TB's "Jelly Baby?", made me smile. Her writing sucked, I think that's been the general consensus, for the most part. I loved The Master in her series. Thought he smashed that out of the park. Also didn't appreciate the attempts too recon or rewrite The Doctors story. Some things just felt almost like no dealing with hard topics, take everything on with super soft kid gloves....i am rambling now. Anyways, exciting to see Tennant back, even if temporary, hyped, but not holding my breath this time.
You are right that the adult tv versus kids tv is always important but the recent series have seemed VERY unbalanced in a lot of ways ... I was particularly impressed with Peter Capaldi as the Doctor but the writing really wasted his talent ... I can point out the few episodes I REALLY liked, rather than being able to point out the few I I had hd a problem with. I had a similar view of Jodi's era, but they also gave her far too many silly episodes ... As an adult I am also surprised how confusing I found both the Child doctor thread and the Flux season.
in my opinion, some of the season 11 stories like rosa and demons of the punjab where kinda let down by the need to have aliens in them
Absolutely. Jodie is a great actress in other projects and has some strong moments (see: The Hauntingof Villa Diodati, Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror, War of the Sontarans), but the scripts gave her barely anything to work with.
Actually books have to, to some degree, do "show, don't tell," too. You can tell us your character is feeling frustrated in a book, or you can describe they ways they act out the frustration. The latter is almost always superior. (There are obviously exceptions to this rule of writing, as there are to every rule)
I am a life long fan of DW and was excited for JW, but I think you have been too generous with your assessment - her acting wasn't great - there was no gravitas to her performance, there were too many companions whose acting was also poor, the scripts weren't in anyway enthralling, the music just wasn't as good as Murray Gold and the canon breaking elements left me feeling the show I loved had been destroyed. The viewing figures would seem to agree. I cannot tell you how sad this has made me, but with RTG returning I hope there is a way back for DW - fingers crossed !
She had none of the professional or personal skills or talent needed. She was clueless and embarrassing. She got exactly what she deserved... total and utter failure. Chibnall got everything wrong... and that included casting her.
@@blastfromthepast8344 yeah exactly like even though I always blame chibnall because most of it is his fault Jodie’s performance wasn’t that good she sort of played it pantomime esc which just didn’t work and to be honest her performance was just very flat
@@lindachanmalcolm I think she got lucky with her early roles, they were well within her limited range, but the Doctor was way beyond her capabilities. Chibnall got everything wrong... his first big mistake was casting her.
I think Jodie Whittaker did the best job she could do with the stuff she was given And I quite like the fam It sort of reminded me of when David Tennant had more than one companion for the few episodes where it had been And obviously so did Matt Smith I enjoyed her performance of the doctor a lot more than Peter Capaldi.
Chibnall is the Michael Bay of Dr who 🤷♂️
I believed that she was until I read the script for legend of the sea devils and actually found the characterisation of the Doctor quite good she just didn’t translate any of what chibnall was going for onto the screen
Jodie had great moments as did some of the other characters, I believe the Chibnall was just lazy, as a producer he should have not allowed characters to be snubbed, not have enough development, scripts not edited properly. I don't think the directors were on the same page with a lot of it, bit of a mess really and for all that, Jodie, Yaz and the other characters shone with their acting. The power of the Doctor was relatively ok but they basically discarded Dan and turned Kate into a quivering wreck, she is the Brigadiers daughter, she would have been made of sterner stuff. No real respect for the characters.
No chibnall, Stevens and jodie failed Doctor Who.
Yes the script and stories let jody down massively and never gave her a proper crack at the role / character.
What annoyed me the most was the preachiness. I appreciate when episodes of Doctor Who have moral and philosophical points to them, but not when it's ground in my face with no good story to pull me along with it. I watched the first season of Chibbs era and the first episode or 2 of the second season before I got bored and just couldn't force myself to keep watching.
I know people say she was great in Broadchurch but her character was just a distraught mother suffering issues related to her a close family member. When you think about it, weekday evening TV in the UK is stacked full of actresses playing the same part and are much better at that too.
I didn't think she was that notable as an actor or even a good choice for a doctor, and that was only cemented further when Jo Martin came on screen with her Doctor portrayal. Jo Martin had the same writers and still felt more Doctor like in one episode than Jodie in her whole run.
Hello, I'm sharing my thoughts as a NuWho fan from the USA. I don't entirely agree that Jodi copied other styles. While I preferred other portrayals (Peter Capaldi & Matt Smith were my favorites), I do think that from the start she gave a unique version of the Doctor. She showed a level of humility that I never saw with the other Doctors. She always more considerate of her companions and how her actions impacted them. Whenever she began to hurry or snap at people around her because she was saving everyone in a hurry and didn't have time to explain (as the doctor often does) she'd pause and realize that wasn't an excuse to be abrupt with Yaz and apologize. I'm not saying if it is a positive and a negative. It does say a lot about society all the men who've been the Doctor could be abrupt, thoughtless, or rude because they were in charge of saving the planet; but when it is a woman in that same position... she has to apologize every time she gets caught up in the moment. Either way, I definitely saw a difference in how she portrayed the role.
She had nothing to make her standout.. nothing I’ll remember her for! Not her fault but sadly so so underwhelming
Ironically the 13th doctor is one of the most emotionally inconsiderate to her companions and she also is one of the most morally grey as not only does she let a man sacrifice him self , the whole kablam episode as she sticks up to the massive corporation that literally killed an innocent person and killed a Tardis (Which have been depicted being sentient). Not to mention the whole "now they see the real you" scene.
@@emeraldmechanic2572 I don't see that, at all. The thirteenth doctor is held to a different standard for some reason
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg dont get me wrong mortally grey doctor has been done before it's just that no one calls out the thirteenth doctor for doing something morally bankrupt. At least the other doctors got called out and was portrayed as wrong in the show. The doctor just let that man in the timeless children sacrifice himself just for the master and the cyber masters to escape making his sacrifice useless.
@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg and remember how Graham was terrified of his cancer coming back and was emotionally vulnerable, what did the 2000+ timelord who has shown compassion as a core character trait do? Oh I know back off slowly and make Graham feel as if he cant talk to the doctor about his problems. Because she is socially awkward? The thirteenth doctors characterisation is all over the place it even contradicts established lore.
Jodie really needed a better writer and a better starting point for where her Doctor would go
Overall I really enjoyed Jodie’s era but it wasn’t perfect cause Christopher would introduce or reintroduce a with no mention of how they canonically fit it like jo martin’s doctor or the return of the master after we had already seen the master die towards the end of the doctor falls
Does anyone else think this? If you take Doctor Who away from Saturday evening (it's traditional time in the UK) it just doesn't feel right. That's a hurdle Jodie had to overcome right there. I thought it was going to fail as soon as I saw the broadcast times. I never felt quite comfortable watching on a Sunday.
And that's before you even start thinking about the terrible scripts she was given.
The thirteenth Doctor is held to a different standard. Chibnall made more of a point of throwing back to classic Who (continuing the trend Moffat started with Capaldi), whereas the 9th through 12 Doctors tend to be more internally referential. Doctor Who shouldn't always be the same formula, and the show shouldn't always pander to the same part of the audience. Capaldi is my favourite Doctor, but I absolutely appreciate Whittaker being different. It's like Pertwee as a sort of James Bond character turning into the gothic horror of Tom Baker. You might not like them both equally, but it's better that they're doing different things, because they'll appeal more to different people.
This!!! ☺ 👍
Jodie did her best to work with the void that was written for her. She's not the first Doctor to go through that. I feel the same about Doctors 5-7 and 12.
12 had so many great episodies.
Jodie is a great actor, but as a long-time Whovian (Tom Baker) - I have to say the scripts were horrible! I was very disappointed in the direction they took her Doctor and then to mess with the cannon!!! UNFORGIVABLE!
I thought the 13th Doctor had too many companions and not enough time to enjoy them. This didn't give enough time for Whittaker to develop. They developed as a cast, rather than a Doctor and a companion.
if she would have been more like Doctor Donna then she would have been a hit
Did Doctor Who Fail Jodie Whittaker? Quite probably... but she failed them just as much (if not more). She supposedly auditioned for the role (but was always likely to get it by default of Chibnall). She put no effort into any research for the role (thinking apeing Tennant's performance would be enough). She failed to grasp the enormity of taking a leading role in a show that has a fanbase going back over five decades, and hadn't the gravitas to carry the show (constantly getting out performed by every guest that showed up). And it's not as though they didn't know how to give us a powerful Time Lady performance... we'd just had the glorious Michelle Gomez as Missy, and gained Jo Martin as "the" Doctor (something, even now, Jodie hasn't given us). Now the Beeb has had to beg RTD to return... if that doesn't tell us it was FAILURE all 'round, nothing will!
Chibnall gave Whittaker a turd sandwich of a script, she honestly did her best, but it almost ruined the franchise. Hoping they wipe 13 away, personal headcanon is she was in a coma after regenerating and falling from the Tardis, everything after thst was a dream/nightmare.
I was so happy that a woman had the part but after one season stopped watching because of bad acting. Then I realized it wasn’t the acting, it was the scripts. I hope with the new doctor gets better scripts
Trust in RTD...He saved Who once, he will save it again, :D
Don't delude yourself Tosin Cole can't act
This is what I was just telling someone the other day! She’s not done a bad job, but the writing just wasn’t as good. Nearly every episode felt more like the random filler episodes of the past, that just kind of filled in the season between the stronger storyline episodes. I thought the almost forced maybe romance between the Doctor and Yaz seemed out of place and unnecessary. Could have been interesting to see her interact with River, but I’m partial to that storyline, anyway. I am interested to see how hopefully stronger writing will incorporate the storyline points that were brought up in Jodie’s time, though. The timeless child and a Doctor before any other Doctors we’ve ever known…there’s potential for something awesome there.
She did a terrible job! Not just bad. LOL
@@blastfromthepast8344 Had all the acting ability of a Goldfish.
I want to start with this: it’s not just the English who don’t like change, it’s humanity and many other species. That accounts for a lot of whinging every time there is a new Doctor.
From that minor point on to Jodi. I went out of my way to see Broadchurch first, because it had the twin draws of seeing two actors who had/will play the Doctor interacting and because as an actor of sorts, I thought it might reveal quite a bit about both Tenant and Whittaker, I was not disappointed but I intuitively got one important point, Broadchurch, with all its magnificent tragedy and drama could go places that Doctor Who just can’t because the explicit tragedy is too great for young minds and souls.
Something I realized later was that Jodi’s performance was so deep and powerful that whatever character she played next would come off to at least some audiences as somehow lesser even if the next character is remarkable in many ways in its own right, because even the actor herself can sense that there are parts of her toolkit that can’t be entirely used in this new venture.
Where I think she was extraordinary was in portraying a female doctor while going through all the quirks and irregularities of being a female for (we believe) the first time.
Now, some of the greatest episodes of her first season may have punched this a bit hard for some (ok many) male fans, but to the degree that the T.A.R.D.I.S. has agency to bring the Doctor where the Doctor needs to go many of the great early episodes focused on what it meant for a woman to explore her own power during times of crisis.
As an American of Irish descent whose parents were actively involved with the American Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s, Rosa was an amazing episode of particular importance as was the Punjab episode. There were so many subtleties.
Vision, let’s not ignore the big purchase of a new camera that allowed a much more cinematographic look to who during Jodi’s era. Who is a collaboration of artists of many kinds and I think the desire to make the Whoniverse bigger visually had more of an impact than people realize now. So recalibrating that was an additional load and opportunity that the Chibnal era handled and was one of the reasons the Spy themed episodes carried themselves off so well. (By the way, I’ll always have fondness for R. Delgado as the Master even though he certainly gave it a melodramatic flavor.
To the excellent show me not tell me point, some of Jodi’s exposition was for the sake of younger viewers who needed to be brought along for at least some of the ride the adults were on. As someone who was 6 when Adam West became Batman in the US, I very much appreciate the challenge here. But the original intent of the show was to teach a younger audience and keep them along on the voyage and while as adults we want the show to go at our speed only, that’s a central part of who.
I was disappointed that Jodi never got to Famine Ireland, perhaps we’ll see the Doctor get there eventually as the Whoniverse gets to/may explore other artifacts of British Colonialism via the 15th Doctor. On the other hand, some of that is just too tragic for children and I understand was largely unknown by the British public at large (the part about Parliament exporting many tons of produce from Ireland during the famine while a million starved to death and were evicted).
Yes, Who has always tackled uncomfortable modern issues, and for those who hate change having the current world struggle to understand what gender means was pretty on point. Perhaps too on point for some. But, in the 70’s it was environmental issues and military roles via unit. It’s always going to be something.
I have to say that I enjoyed all of the companions in this era and was very entertained how some came back in very creative ways.
By the way, I was not at all surprised to see Graham in the volcano, as his character was one of many who ran with the Doctor and post doctor could not stop running and digging and saving.
After all, that’s on all of us isn’t it, to use what running with The Doctor has taught us, even when that requires personal sacrifice and courage.
Enjoying Who Culture very much!
The thing is, Jodie had a similar situation to Colin Baker. Her acting was okay, but the writing was abysmal.
I loved the first two series of Broadchurch, especially series 1. Series 3 felt kinda tacked on & preachy. Jodi was absolutely amazing throughout, though.
In the sense that she's the first actor to be the Doctor to rip on fans ... well, she let the show down. In the sense her acting was not really subtle or nuanced or anything ... she let it down. In the sense that the scripts could never figure out her character, and had her acting out of character for the Doctor (the Doctor is famous for saying he has a plan, when he doesn't ... until Jodie, who confessed often she didn't have a plan and then made a dumb face) ... the writers let her down. The fact that there was a lot of confusing convoluted scripts ... the writers let her down. So, 2 for 2. On the other hand, she did openly say she wasn't interested in watching old episodes with all those oppressive male doctors, so she didn't do her research ... she let the show down. So, 3 for 2.
More bad than good for me. Couldn’t really get behind it, that’s more on Chibnall than Whitaker. Missed opportunities for me was the Martin’s fugitive doctor. Part of me was more interested in her than Jodie’s Doctor. Seemed to want to create a new chapter in the who-verse by killing off the time lords, but never did much with it to bring the fan base along with afterwards. Often left huge gaps in the stories ends, which miraculously fixed themselves.
I think the writers for Dr Who during the Jodie Whittaker era were awful, no actor could have done a good job
The way Ellie said "byee!" was adorable
Reportedly, she practices it in the mirror every morning.
Don't be silly. Never blame the customer. The audience is there to watch and if they don't like it, they go away or ask for something else. Doctor Who didn't fail Jodie Whittaker. Jodie Whittaker failed Doctor Who. She just wasn't the right person for the part.
Lots of people didn't think Michael Keaton and Heath Ledger weren't right to play Batman and Joker, but they proved everyone wrong.
Exactly!
And if RTD2 continues the woke agenda from the Chibnall era then Doctor Who will die and be buried for a long time!!!
we need to make to change the law so that if a writer is bad, they cannot do the first anything in the show until they get better
Did Jodie Whittaker Fail Doctor Who?
In a supposed age of equality, I am disappointed that people are afraid to call Whittaker out on her bad acting as The Doctor like they would with an equivalent male actor!
She's not a terrible actress but she was totally miscast as The Doctor!!!
I think a lot of people compare her performance to Peter Davidson. Both capable, but also both mostly doing it as a job. With Dr who always being a victim of bossy execs, parsimonious budgets, aggrieved fans and mary White House. It's succeeded when the Dr has had talent and passion. Jo Martin may have had nowhere near enough screen time but she tour the screen up whenever she was on it.
Whittaker’s performance is fine. Chibnall’s scripts ranged for boring to insulting.
it really doesn't matter if doctor who fail the actor who plays the doctor, what matters is did the show serve the fans well by entertaining them and the chibs era failed to do that...big time
You know what I'm so sick and tired of everybody saying that she failed as a doctor she did not the writers failed her the fans are failing her by not demanding different writers or something they're all making it her fault and that's b*******!. She is a damn good actress I've seen her in many things she is a good actress she brought the energy to Doctor Who that we needed from way back when. She was very hyper very enthusiastic happy to be there I enjoyed seeing her as a doctor the story lines were a bit boring though so you guys need to quit saying it's her fault that she failed as the doctor it wasn't y'all need to just get over yourselves on that one let's just see how the next Doctor Who works salary cuz I don't think that one's going to be all that great either
My problem was with historical Canon. 9, 10 & 11 all said that they don't do guns. By history, none of them carried or used them. Now, the 1st we see from Jo Martin's fugitive Doctor, is of her brandishing a weapon. And again as an operative of Division. So when does that change happen? I don't care. It just messes up everything we know of the Doctor. We know of Hartnell on. We've seen other incarnations during Tom Bakers time, giving some credence to the Timeless child story. (Yeah, I am that old). I could talk all day about history's inconsistencies, but I won't.
In short, I saw a lot of good that could've been done for Jodie that never appeared thanks to Chibs lackluster writing. They could've fired him and brought in someone else to lift her up. She deserved better.
No. Her bad acting and poor (or should that be, lack of own?) take on the character complimented the crap writing. Fails all round.
My answer no. But Chris failed her. The stories he wrote and those he had creative control over. So he failed the Doctor!
Definitely I feel so sorry for RT (Russell T Davies for short) because he has to patch up all of the terrible work Chris Chinball has done which has ruined the storyline. Finding out the doctor was the timeless child made no sense at all. Their was so much potential for Jodie's doctor if we didn't have such a terrible writer
Short answer is yes. Jodie showed great moments and quirks over time but as everyone is saying - the writing let her down tremendously.
The Jodie Whittaker era could have been good, the Rosa Parks episode could have been fantastic but as the era progressed the Whittaker-Chibnall Doctor Who degenerated into Harry Potter.