Nah I agree, having unique silhouettes is very important. It was important in TF2 and it's gonna be important in every other game in this genre. Shoot, Rainbow Six and Apex have very readable character designs even though they're way more realistic
I don't think that is 100% responsible for the problem. They have made their own spin on some characters like iorn fist, they don't have a problem with taking liberties with the silhouettes and abilities. Some of the heroes even just have really similar animations to one another, I could be wrong but it kind of feels like some heroes share some of the same animations.
Eventually folks are going to have to discern between Dazzler, Emma Frost, Dagger, and Invisible Woman. There’s a lot of blonde women wearing white in the Marvel Universe. This is a concept Overwatch has understood throughout its history to the franchises major credit.
@@RandomGamerCory I actually confused dagger with Invisible woman from a distance a few times. Their animations, character designs, and attack styles are extremely similar when you're at a distance.
Nah I’m gonna disagree with that and I think Juno was the character that we’ve first experienced this with as of now. I’ve been playing OW since 2017, and I genuinely thought Juno was a special event skin for Kiriko or DVA when the trailer first launched. How are you gonna have a supposed alien look like a normal East Asian young woman? I guess that’s the demographic that gets the most sales in terms of skins?
Um, it's just two similar comic book characters. Yeah, the gorgeous blonde is a pretty popular design in comics, so I'm glad they didn't uglify the characters just for the sake of diversity.
Sometimes in the skirmish, I've been attacking Dr Strange, thinking he was Adam Warlock (since they're both buff dudes with a cape), so it's a bit awkward since one is the guy you *want* to focus first, and the other is the tank who wants you to focus him.
Both being blondies with white outfit wasn't the best choice (I guess they had to match Susan with the whole fantastic four uniform) but that being the only nitpick of people is why I enjoy watching Marvel rivals, people actually enjoying the game is good, even if the game has few nitpicks.
Readability in general is pretty poor in Rivals and it goes beyond the character designs. Completely agree that clarity, readability has always been a Blizzard strength, though it's not as strong as it used to be. But in OW2 I've bought one skin. Just one. I like some of the other skins, but I don't think they're worth the price. Very few battlepass skins have appealed to me either. I've already bought more Rivals skins than OW2 ones. I agree that I like sexy skins, but if that's all there were it'd fall flat. I already need a "random from favorites" for Magneto tho lol
OW 2 I've not really spent money on either. I was hesitant to ever spend any money after seeing the broken promises and layoffs of some of my friends. The prices too were just way to insane. Marvel Rivals I bought a skin day 1. I'll probably get more as well if they're for heroes I like to play. The prices still seem kind of high but it might be the fact that i'm having fun and I have more hope for the future of Rivals than Overwatch.
I think it's hard to work out whether the prices are high because for the kind of game it is, there's OW which is more expensive and... that's it to compare to, but it's a recognised IP. The exchange rate isn't all that friendly to me so I won't be going crazy with purchases, but I'm much more likely to buy on a whim than OW
1 min in and already hard agree. The issue is they managed to avoid it with other characters like Bucky and Punisher. They made Punisher bigger and bulkier and Bucky is smaller in comparison. During season 1 I would also mix up green skin Luna with Mantis.
I can agree with this, starting off in marvel rivals I found it so difficult to recognise the characters, in overwatch it was very easy for me to learn everybody because they all looked so different. Though Overwatch will always have great character design, their monetisation is really ruining the game since marvel rivals offers so much for free while still having very cheap prices.
That was something they mentioned in the making of this game and later interviews, they wanted you to recognize them by silhouettes. And it does work, like you said. Even with new outfits, the movements and shape make me know who they are without much thought. And yes they both can coexist marvels isn’t bad(yet) but does have a bunch already established characters that even by 90’s comics, look and I have the same build especially with women. Psylock was a tall muscular women but in game she’s a bit smaller but go back and all of them have the full figure drawing style.
Yeah, I was done with this game whenever they made a win for the past two years, and when I saw 2 tanks shooting each other in the face for five minutes straight or him use a ability at 50 HP then back to 650 I was like yeaaaaaaa I’m done lmao
@@Deathandgaming I only remember it was Kiriko each time, twice on Rio and once on Hollywood (from what I remember) I stopped caring for skins once the game went over to OW2so maybe it was just a skin that used to be only for one of the other female characters and now she got it with the same theme idk, I just remember it being quite a few times and always the same hero lol
@@embode3747 oh you know now that you mention it I do remember some kiriko skins that had me confused too! can't remember which ones either but it was definitely her.
I might be one of the minority of people that have played both games a lot and still like Overwatch more. I’m a huge Marvel fan but in Terms of playstyle, visuals, overall feel of the game, I prefer Overwatch by a lot. Nothing against Rivals, just a personal feeling.
that's totally understandable! both games are still good even if I have issues with parts of overwatch. at the end of the day we shouldn't be arguing over whats better on personal preference. I still love Overwatch and the IP and hope to come back but I just don't care for the balance state of it right now.
You have a point about shape design being an important element in character design especially having variety but I think Marvel Rivals still has that such as Thor and Black Panther having different shapes or Hela being taller than other female characters along with other shape differences that are present in the game. I think the game also has a good selection of suits because along with Invisible Women's outfit that is a reference to an evil version of her in the comics, the game also has battle pass with characters dressed as versions from Victorian era horror.
Marvel Rivals definitely does it and still does it pretty well. I think a lot of people elsewhere in the comments picked up some tribalism here and think I'm talking shit on Marvel Rivals when I'm actively playing it haha I just meant to compliment how well Overwatch has done it. love or hate their characters they read super well and I appreciate them willing to take risks.
in marvel rivals they try too hard to make every character lovable, in Overwatch, having split opinions on characters is healthy in the way that it can draw people closer to their preferred hero. everyone has a hero they hate, but for the very same reason, they have a hero they love more than anything. not being afraid to make an less (widely) appealing or less popular hero is what makes Overwatch thrive. YOUR hero isnt made for everyone, its made for YOU and the people who grow to love that hero.
i mean even Ability design is 100% better(why Hawk can f double jump?? why Hulk can Bubble??) Overwatch is make every hero just unik and perfect coerent with their design ability's. Overwatch even better with sound design...and most important u understand what happening on Overwatch screen but in marvel rivals its a mash/orgy of thing,its hard to see witch Groot wall is,or Namor turret and even understand what happend if you see in midfights C&D and InvWoman making you became blind
I think the characters' abilities are way more diverse in Rivals. There's so much variation in the way the different characters play & interact with each other. It results in really awesome gameplay where you can play a character with your own style or combine character abilities in complex ways. Like with Strange's portal. Edit: oh you're talking about the way the characters look. I think they look like ass in Overwatch. It's all just quirky Disney Pixar princesses & that's lame. With Rivals, they look powerful & strong. That's what you should be aiming for in a hero shooter.
@@hobbitrash7815 The basic concepts of character design include making the characters appropriate for the context & your target audience. Quirky Pixar style characters are appropriate for a girly Stardew Valley style game, they aren't appropriate for a hero shooter where the characters should look powerful.
Idk if the One piece example works. You found the old designs to be bad, then later down line u started to enjoy it. What’s funny is Oda changed the female designs at some point to be insanely voluptuous 😂
I feel like you missed some of the video or misunderstood. this isn't a video saying I don't like sexy skins and in fact at 5:23 I literally say I like sexy skins. and when talking one piece i love oda's designs for his characters as well. i love nami and robin but I also love the way he drew big mom and shinobu. i love how different Luffy and Kaido are. I love the variety of Oda's designs and they all stand out and read really well as silhouettes. that's my whole point Is that overwatch's designs read super well as a whole and some of their more wacky designs are my favorite and I appreciate how willing to step outside the box they were just like Oda has.
@ i was just commenting on the one piece example not the video as a whole. I was wrong in assuming the example didn’t work and I agree with your take overall. Although I will add that there is a negative and positive to all things including OW, one piece or Marvel rivals design. I don’t think any of the designs are straight up better than the other, but depending on the topic one could excel more than the other. Personally I love rivals character design and I feel we haven’t had something on that level in mainstream video games in quite sometime.
Its not that I don't disagree, but this isn't something that really bothers me because its something you get very much used to. This is what you call something of a problem that goes away over time. Also without the costumes and cool characters I'd have never even got OW1 back in the day for its gameplay to matter. Without the cool factor of everything nothing else really matters. Cause if I just need a try hard FPS I'd just continue to play counter strike 2.
Having Unique silhouette is obviously good for the game, but i dont think that has anything to do with overwatch specifically (since i have started watching marvel rivals, overwatch models and characters feel so lower quality, i know the game is more fluid, but the character modles just dont hit the same now) i know the art style is different but marvel has much better model design. so sadly, two blondies looking similar wouldn't make me believe "overwatch designs are better for hero shooter games" since diversity is good (and marvel does have alot of that) but most importantly overwatch needs to level up their character models quality.
Invisible Woman really made me notice how female hero design in that game is off. Every single female body type is basically the same and has to be conventionally attractive. It’s funny how it’s obvious to the point of causing readability issues. There is also the appellative aspect of it, IW default pose makes a point to sexualize her and it’s not the fault of the spandex suit either, Juno completely avoided that problem. The recent skins also kinda alarmed me of how widespread that is. The new skin for Scarlet Witch certainly has a surprise if you look at it from the sides and it disappointed me, you can compare it’s execution to skins like Ashe Warlock and it becomes obvious how much more sensible OW’s design is. Mind you overwatch had a similar problem at release that sparked controversy (remember the old tracer booty photobombs?) and looking back it’s not as bad as marvel rivals. Kinda pains me that today this discussion will not be brought up and taken in good faith given the current state of discourse…
I remember the old tracer booty pose days and looking back although I think it was a bit of an overreaction at the time I also think changing it was probably for the best. I don't even mind the sexy skins in marvel rivals if that's the kind of game it wants to be. sexy is easy though and some of my favorite skins from overwatch are the fun ones like comic book tracer and honey dew mei. they also blend in too well together with the silhouettes not being very different at times. it's not to say it's a huge problem just made the video to compliment how well overwatch achieved this. people in the comments going to war though as if blizzard took their gf away or something lol
How did Juno avoid that? She literally has a bigger booty and the way she poses almost amplifies the effect of it. Theres already lots of corn with her just weeks after release and youre saying she isnt sexualised? I dont mind this that much, as long as its not too exaggerated, but rather have the characters be like that than see kiriko get skins for every single event almost with no skins for some tanks and dps
@@Starwarp02 As you should, its literally what people want in games, and least you not forget people like you bullied developers to stop that even in OW1 and other games. The way you're talking as if you want it to stop but that's literally what people buy. You're supposed to do what the majority of fans want. Heck even fortnite does this and that game is for kids.
fun fact just the mention of the word diversity has made this my second most disliked video lol while most people freaking out have completely missed the point. i did throw venture in the thumbnail just to see what would happen to be honest.
they legit have a pie chart about how the hero will be determine is a hero is gay or not yeah they were good in overwatch 1 now every single hero they add is just a checklist to make everyone feel included I LITERALLY DONT CARE WHAT COUNTRY THEY ARE FROM ALL PEOPLE ARE ABOUT IT THERE KIT also just play marvel rivals blizzard is shell of its former self players never mattered only our wallets
Both Sue and Daggers have some similarities at first glance, but the differences become apparent after some games. Using this example to generalize about the entire game seems too much. And you use Venture as an example in your video. How many skins did Blizzard make for Venture compared to popular heroes like Kiriko, Mercy, and Genji? Even internally they do not believe this would bring in more profits. MR is very diverse for a one-month-old game, and I don't see how it doesn't attract different kinds of players. Some people don't like Psylocke, so they play Iron Man; some people enjoy being an assassin, so they play Black Panther; others want to play as a cute animal, so they choose Jeff.
This video had nothing to do about profit. It also isn't saying that marvel rivals is terrible just that overwatch did something really well and probably better in one aspect. You seem to be assuming a lot of information I didn't say.
No dude i do not want them to change the way they've been doing there character design's. An artistic master piece every time i play the game, they spent time making the character's looking as aestheticlyappealing as possible. Maybe overwatch wouldn't have had the problem of kiriko being rhe only one getting skins if ALL THE CHARACTERS LOOKED GOOD. I don't want to play a game and have to look at chracters designs i don't like it doesn't matter if im mad or not if i don't like it why would i be there? Ill come back and play marvels rivals every time just off the fact that i can enjoy every character design, you say diversity this diversity that, and guess what? No ONE LIKES the result. "Oh marvels is going to die off" " oh your going to get tierd of mixing characters up" No, no im not when i fight scenimatic master peice, when i did scenmatic masterpiece, when someone ult scenimatic master piece, when the game ends scenimatic master piece. If your diversity means i dont get to see that every time just so you can "feel something different" flip u
I don't think you mean so much 'diversity' as 'variety', and MR does have that, the winter Magik skin, the Luna glamour one too, for instance. Also, Seems like everyone forgot about Squirrel Girl. And you can gas on and on about silhouettes until the end of the world, I'll still think Venture is one of the dullest designs ever, if I didn't know it's from Overwatch I'd think it's from Concord. "The diverse characters [...] attract more players" Uh-huh, where were these players before Concord's historic failure?
I am having more fun with Marvel Rivals at the moment cause it feels like Overwatch Classic days but I always will love the art from the Overwatch team and have to give them credit.
@@Deathandgamingyeah. I hate OW2 but played OW until it got too stagnant and also now enjoy Marvel Rivals. However, OW around 2016-2017 was more fun than Marvel Rivals. People forget how big OW was and it also was a completely new IP which didn't have headstart unlike MR due to already existing huge fanbase behind Marvel. MR is a good and better game than OW 2 but it's also overrated because of how much people hate OW2. Talking about characters designs I definitely have to agree with you even though I am not a big fan of basically any "new" character since Echo with the exception of maybe Junker Queen and Juno. I am aware of how massively popularMarvel is but personally I never really cared about their characters and never was a big consumer of their media. In this aspect I prefer IPs with uniquely for the game created characters like Overwatch and League (in Riot case amazing lore does the heavy lifting). Also, not a fan of blending together silhouettes but also lack of SFX clarity in MR. Even kinda hate how many ults are just that big aoe blob. OW ults are much more interesting and unique. Love the MR gameplay and ban system. Always loved Venom, the game also introduced me to Magik and Scarlett Witch who for a superheroes(not a big fan usually) I do enjoy as characters. One of the cooler iterations I've seen of Spiderman too. His poses animations so dynamic, he looks and feels very athletic and acrobatic. Matches gameplay perfectly.
@@Luunacyy I agree with a lot of what you said. Peak OW1 was definitely better than Marvel Rivals and right now I'm sure it's getting a lot of attention for just not being Overwatch 2. I wish we had the lore and other media for Overwatch like Riot does for league. i can't help but feel that would keep people excited. I'm pretty sure they're dealing with a lot of corporate BS there keeping that stuff down leaving the team with not much room to work. also at the same time a lot of the design decisions are still on them and I have lots to say about that too. still though I would love to see Overwatch make a comeback as I love the characters and the world and the game itself back in OW1. still MR has some great additions to their game that I think OW should copy.
Not what I agree with. You’re reaching, imo. You couldn’t figure out black panther from Cap? A blue character from a black character? OW is cool but Marvels characters are more recognizable to me, to mostly everyone. Respect your opinion, tho
oh I don't mean caps default costume but his galactic talon one. i don't know where people bought it but he was in all black and first time I got jumped on by him I was confused. sorry, i realize i should have put that in the video now. rivalskins.com/item/20/captain-america-costume-galactic-talon/
@@Deathandgaming yeah the looks to be a limited time buy, was pretty dope but that makes more sense. I think OW characters are recognizable in their own right, for example, you can see a character and know almost immediately that it’s OW. Right after this video I watched my wife play Rivals and mix up Magik and Black Panther so lol I can see your point when it’s not me and my life long knowledge
Overwatch is dead therefore a problem with marvel rivals is fine? I'm fairly certain overwatch took lessons from tf2 when it came to designing distinctive sihouettes, rivals really should have done the same somehow.
ALright I'm only doing this because I thought your discussions about design were insightful and more than the average youtuber were capable of but now I'm gonna unsub and leave with saying this. It doesn't matter how hard you try to justify this fact but NOBODY wants to play as non binary Venture or gay Soldier or Lesbian Tracer. Rivals just broke 600k and OW2 just slumped to its lowest 13k on Steam. I don't care what you have to say about readability because games like Team Fortress 2 that have been out for 10 years longer than OW have infinitely better readability than your "diverse" roster and they didn't have to force agenda on children to achieve it. I have never once looked at any of the characters in Rivals and not instantly known who I was fighting against not to mention tabbing to see what heroes you are facing since people swap all the time has been a thing for going on 9 years in OW. Get real.
@@Deathandgaming because it doesn't add to the game atmosphere or story of overwatch. Here is an elite team of heroes blessed with skill and powers unlike anything the world has ever known. Meet Venture! A loveable tunneler that tunnels into the ground with they's handy giant tunnel gun. Also they is non binary and is asexual. Look I understand this is a cold facetious look at the character but I'm using hyperbole to point out how nonsensical the writing is for "diversities sake". It's not good and well thought out it's there because they want kids to see it and think it's normal to believe they aren't really a girl or a boy.
I can tell by this comment alone you are ignorant of the marvel IP. Rivals will piss you off when they start introducing more and more characters. It's only a matter of time before you start hating on Rivals. Marvel has a deep bench of lgbt and diverse characters. Even Deadpool in the comics is Bi!
When one of the only downsides a person can point out for Rivals is "the attractive white blonde woman looks like this other attractive white blonde woman" I am happy to say I left Overwatch after 6 years of devotion to it, if you cant discern between characters in gameplay based upon more than their skin colour you arent exactly very good at said game, I saw in the comments someone comparing Strange to Adam like they dont have two entirely different animation sets and appearances. Using Venture as an example as well in the thumbnail is just terrible too, she was the nail in the coffin for a lot of people as to the intentions of Blizzard going forward with Overwatch, she is ugly in appearance her voice makes me wanna chew nails and she just has no colour to her at all not to mention the SBI effect that is very blatantly apparent with her whole schtick. Do people also forget the fact that cosmetics exist and that in Rivals they are absolutely gorgeous, have you seen the S1 battlepass that Logan skin is peak. People arent all gonna be running the default when the skins looks so damn good so comparing default C&D to default IW when the latter has an amazingly attractive skin 90% of people use is a bit redundant. Overwatch doesnt have that because half the skins are just recolours of recolours at this point are overly priced and are half the time just ugly (half the lunar event skins), there are so many skins I owned in overwatch where if I didnt want the completionist feeling of owning them I would rather have never unlocked from those lootboxes.
Nah I agree, having unique silhouettes is very important. It was important in TF2 and it's gonna be important in every other game in this genre. Shoot, Rainbow Six and Apex have very readable character designs even though they're way more realistic
True, i knew they were appealing to sex appeal when they dropped winter rocket and caked up venom v2
Inherent downside of working with an IP that's well established in another form of media
True but I don't get why they made Susan's default outfit white instead of blue it would have helped to separate the two.
I don't think that is 100% responsible for the problem. They have made their own spin on some characters like iorn fist, they don't have a problem with taking liberties with the silhouettes and abilities. Some of the heroes even just have really similar animations to one another, I could be wrong but it kind of feels like some heroes share some of the same animations.
Eventually folks are going to have to discern between Dazzler, Emma Frost, Dagger, and Invisible Woman.
There’s a lot of blonde women wearing white in the Marvel Universe.
This is a concept Overwatch has understood throughout its history to the franchises major credit.
If you honestly can't tell the people apart in rivals. IDK what to tell ya
@@RandomGamerCory yeah just ignore the entire point of the vid and one of the core principles of character design, big ups man!
@@RandomGamerCory I actually confused dagger with Invisible woman from a distance a few times. Their animations, character designs, and attack styles are extremely similar when you're at a distance.
they should make emma frost a tank and give her a giant coat to give her a unique silhouette
@@RandomGamerCory buddy, your channel screams "40 year old virgin." You don't get to criticize diversity.
Completely agree. I played some rivals today and Cloak and Dagger and The Invisible Woman look unreasonably similar. Never had that happen in OW.
Well unless the characters are wearing weird skins ofc. I had no idea juno was the chick from my hero for awhile
Nah I’m gonna disagree with that and I think Juno was the character that we’ve first experienced this with as of now. I’ve been playing OW since 2017, and I genuinely thought Juno was a special event skin for Kiriko or DVA when the trailer first launched. How are you gonna have a supposed alien look like a normal East Asian young woman? I guess that’s the demographic that gets the most sales in terms of skins?
Um, it's just two similar comic book characters. Yeah, the gorgeous blonde is a pretty popular design in comics, so I'm glad they didn't uglify the characters just for the sake of diversity.
@@hyuston7270 that is not what they suggested at all
I like the game but I also feel that way abilities. Like a lot of projectiles feel the same to shoot across different heroes.
This
As overwatch player, when i first saw invisible woman i knew it was all wrong, she's too identical to cloak&dagger
Sometimes in the skirmish, I've been attacking Dr Strange, thinking he was Adam Warlock (since they're both buff dudes with a cape), so it's a bit awkward since one is the guy you *want* to focus first, and the other is the tank who wants you to focus him.
Susan’s and dagger’s icons look kinda identical at a glance. It’s silly.
Both being blondies with white outfit wasn't the best choice (I guess they had to match Susan with the whole fantastic four uniform) but that being the only nitpick of people is why I enjoy watching Marvel rivals, people actually enjoying the game is good, even if the game has few nitpicks.
to be fair, Overwatch has been adding a few new silhouettes as well that are confusing
Readability in general is pretty poor in Rivals and it goes beyond the character designs. Completely agree that clarity, readability has always been a Blizzard strength, though it's not as strong as it used to be. But in OW2 I've bought one skin. Just one. I like some of the other skins, but I don't think they're worth the price. Very few battlepass skins have appealed to me either. I've already bought more Rivals skins than OW2 ones.
I agree that I like sexy skins, but if that's all there were it'd fall flat. I already need a "random from favorites" for Magneto tho lol
OW 2 I've not really spent money on either. I was hesitant to ever spend any money after seeing the broken promises and layoffs of some of my friends. The prices too were just way to insane. Marvel Rivals I bought a skin day 1. I'll probably get more as well if they're for heroes I like to play. The prices still seem kind of high but it might be the fact that i'm having fun and I have more hope for the future of Rivals than Overwatch.
I think it's hard to work out whether the prices are high because for the kind of game it is, there's OW which is more expensive and... that's it to compare to, but it's a recognised IP. The exchange rate isn't all that friendly to me so I won't be going crazy with purchases, but I'm much more likely to buy on a whim than OW
1 min in and already hard agree. The issue is they managed to avoid it with other characters like Bucky and Punisher. They made Punisher bigger and bulkier and Bucky is smaller in comparison. During season 1 I would also mix up green skin Luna with Mantis.
I can agree with this, starting off in marvel rivals I found it so difficult to recognise the characters, in overwatch it was very easy for me to learn everybody because they all looked so different. Though Overwatch will always have great character design, their monetisation is really ruining the game since marvel rivals offers so much for free while still having very cheap prices.
oh 100%
wtf both games have similar prices for skins and bp? what cheap prices?
@@lahoy Yea I don't see this too. MR legendary skin is 2600... Epic is sometimes like legendary but is 1600
@@lahoy I think you get more free currency in Rivals compared to Overwatch.
That was something they mentioned in the making of this game and later interviews, they wanted you to recognize them by silhouettes. And it does work, like you said. Even with new outfits, the movements and shape make me know who they are without much thought. And yes they both can coexist marvels isn’t bad(yet) but does have a bunch already established characters that even by 90’s comics, look and I have the same build especially with women. Psylock was a tall muscular women but in game she’s a bit smaller but go back and all of them have the full figure drawing style.
Ain't no way ppl in the comments got triggered by the word "diverse" jesus
people lost their shit on this one ngl lol
@@DeathandgamingThe same brothers calling people snowflakes a few years back having melties over a bogeyman word today
tbh ppl yelling "DEI" in a gaming context are basically asking the JQ.
Yes and I like Old tanks more than new generalized ones.
1400 hours on overwatch holding masters and im just tired of the IP
Yeah, I was done with this game whenever they made a win for the past two years, and when I saw 2 tanks shooting each other in the face for five minutes straight or him use a ability at 50 HP then back to 650 I was like yeaaaaaaa I’m done lmao
Some of the new OW2 skins had me confused a few times
That is fair. you mind if i ask what skins they were?
@@Deathandgaming I only remember it was Kiriko each time, twice on Rio and once on Hollywood (from what I remember) I stopped caring for skins once the game went over to OW2so maybe it was just a skin that used to be only for one of the other female characters and now she got it with the same theme idk, I just remember it being quite a few times and always the same hero lol
@@embode3747 oh you know now that you mention it I do remember some kiriko skins that had me confused too! can't remember which ones either but it was definitely her.
I might be one of the minority of people that have played both games a lot and still like Overwatch more. I’m a huge Marvel fan but in Terms of playstyle, visuals, overall feel of the game, I prefer Overwatch by a lot. Nothing against Rivals, just a personal feeling.
that's totally understandable! both games are still good even if I have issues with parts of overwatch. at the end of the day we shouldn't be arguing over whats better on personal preference. I still love Overwatch and the IP and hope to come back but I just don't care for the balance state of it right now.
As a high rank player this is a huge problem, Its exploitive.
You have a point about shape design being an important element in character design especially having variety but I think Marvel Rivals still has that such as Thor and Black Panther having different shapes or Hela being taller than other female characters along with other shape differences that are present in the game.
I think the game also has a good selection of suits because along with Invisible Women's outfit that is a reference to an evil version of her in the comics, the game also has battle pass with characters dressed as versions from Victorian era horror.
Marvel Rivals definitely does it and still does it pretty well. I think a lot of people elsewhere in the comments picked up some tribalism here and think I'm talking shit on Marvel Rivals when I'm actively playing it haha I just meant to compliment how well Overwatch has done it. love or hate their characters they read super well and I appreciate them willing to take risks.
in marvel rivals they try too hard to make every character lovable, in Overwatch, having split opinions on characters is healthy in the way that it can draw people closer to their preferred hero. everyone has a hero they hate, but for the very same reason, they have a hero they love more than anything. not being afraid to make an less (widely) appealing or less popular hero is what makes Overwatch thrive. YOUR hero isnt made for everyone, its made for YOU and the people who grow to love that hero.
100%
i mean even Ability design is 100% better(why Hawk can f double jump?? why Hulk can Bubble??) Overwatch is make every hero just unik and perfect coerent with their design ability's. Overwatch even better with sound design...and most important u understand what happening on Overwatch screen but in marvel rivals its a mash/orgy of thing,its hard to see witch Groot wall is,or Namor turret and even understand what happend if you see in midfights C&D and InvWoman making you became blind
but Marvel design is just FUN pure FUn
doesn't matter as pickrate isn't even close to equal, and will never be
I think the characters' abilities are way more diverse in Rivals.
There's so much variation in the way the different characters play & interact with each other.
It results in really awesome gameplay where you can play a character with your own style or combine character abilities in complex ways. Like with Strange's portal.
Edit: oh you're talking about the way the characters look. I think they look like ass in Overwatch. It's all just quirky Disney Pixar princesses & that's lame.
With Rivals, they look powerful & strong. That's what you should be aiming for in a hero shooter.
Please learn the basic concepts of character design before commenting
@@hobbitrash7815 The basic concepts of character design include making the characters appropriate for the context & your target audience.
Quirky Pixar style characters are appropriate for a girly Stardew Valley style game, they aren't appropriate for a hero shooter where the characters should look powerful.
Idk if the One piece example works. You found the old designs to be bad, then later down line u started to enjoy it. What’s funny is Oda changed the female designs at some point to be insanely voluptuous 😂
I feel like you missed some of the video or misunderstood. this isn't a video saying I don't like sexy skins and in fact at 5:23 I literally say I like sexy skins. and when talking one piece i love oda's designs for his characters as well. i love nami and robin but I also love the way he drew big mom and shinobu. i love how different Luffy and Kaido are. I love the variety of Oda's designs and they all stand out and read really well as silhouettes. that's my whole point Is that overwatch's designs read super well as a whole and some of their more wacky designs are my favorite and I appreciate how willing to step outside the box they were just like Oda has.
@ i was just commenting on the one piece example not the video as a whole. I was wrong in assuming the example didn’t work and I agree with your take overall. Although I will add that there is a negative and positive to all things including OW, one piece or Marvel rivals design. I don’t think any of the designs are straight up better than the other, but depending on the topic one could excel more than the other. Personally I love rivals character design and I feel we haven’t had something on that level in mainstream video games in quite sometime.
Now talk about the OP support abilities
i agree with this so much
Its not that I don't disagree, but this isn't something that really bothers me because its something you get very much used to. This is what you call something of a problem that goes away over time. Also without the costumes and cool characters I'd have never even got OW1 back in the day for its gameplay to matter. Without the cool factor of everything nothing else really matters. Cause if I just need a try hard FPS I'd just continue to play counter strike 2.
Having Unique silhouette is obviously good for the game, but i dont think that has anything to do with overwatch specifically (since i have started watching marvel rivals, overwatch models and characters feel so lower quality, i know the game is more fluid, but the character modles just dont hit the same now) i know the art style is different but marvel has much better model design. so sadly, two blondies looking similar wouldn't make me believe "overwatch designs are better for hero shooter games" since diversity is good (and marvel does have alot of that) but most importantly overwatch needs to level up their character models quality.
Invisible Woman really made me notice how female hero design in that game is off. Every single female body type is basically the same and has to be conventionally attractive. It’s funny how it’s obvious to the point of causing readability issues. There is also the appellative aspect of it, IW default pose makes a point to sexualize her and it’s not the fault of the spandex suit either, Juno completely avoided that problem.
The recent skins also kinda alarmed me of how widespread that is. The new skin for Scarlet Witch certainly has a surprise if you look at it from the sides and it disappointed me, you can compare it’s execution to skins like Ashe Warlock and it becomes obvious how much more sensible OW’s design is.
Mind you overwatch had a similar problem at release that sparked controversy (remember the old tracer booty photobombs?) and looking back it’s not as bad as marvel rivals. Kinda pains me that today this discussion will not be brought up and taken in good faith given the current state of discourse…
yup I call out that skins are way too sexualized in rivals and get bullied for it.
I remember the old tracer booty pose days and looking back although I think it was a bit of an overreaction at the time I also think changing it was probably for the best.
I don't even mind the sexy skins in marvel rivals if that's the kind of game it wants to be. sexy is easy though and some of my favorite skins from overwatch are the fun ones like comic book tracer and honey dew mei. they also blend in too well together with the silhouettes not being very different at times. it's not to say it's a huge problem just made the video to compliment how well overwatch achieved this. people in the comments going to war though as if blizzard took their gf away or something lol
How did Juno avoid that? She literally has a bigger booty and the way she poses almost amplifies the effect of it. Theres already lots of corn with her just weeks after release and youre saying she isnt sexualised? I dont mind this that much, as long as its not too exaggerated, but rather have the characters be like that than see kiriko get skins for every single event almost with no skins for some tanks and dps
@@Starwarp02 As you should, its literally what people want in games, and least you not forget people like you bullied developers to stop that even in OW1 and other games. The way you're talking as if you want it to stop but that's literally what people buy. You're supposed to do what the majority of fans want. Heck even fortnite does this and that game is for kids.
@ what people want isn't always what is good
You gave a warning at the start at yet there are still people who got mad or misunderstood the point you're making 💀 you can't make this shit up.
fun fact just the mention of the word diversity has made this my second most disliked video lol while most people freaking out have completely missed the point. i did throw venture in the thumbnail just to see what would happen to be honest.
OMFG YOU ARE A ONE PIECE FAN TOO LETSGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Hell yeah! That's Nico Robin on my arm! Happy to have straw hats in my comments/subs.
Not with that thumbnail we wont
they legit have a pie chart about how the hero will be determine is a hero is gay or not yeah they were good in overwatch 1 now every single hero they add is just a checklist to make everyone feel included I LITERALLY DONT CARE WHAT COUNTRY THEY ARE FROM ALL PEOPLE ARE ABOUT IT THERE KIT also just play marvel rivals blizzard is shell of its former self players never mattered only our wallets
Both Sue and Daggers have some similarities at first glance, but the differences become apparent after some games. Using this example to generalize about the entire game seems too much.
And you use Venture as an example in your video. How many skins did Blizzard make for Venture compared to popular heroes like Kiriko, Mercy, and Genji? Even internally they do not believe this would bring in more profits.
MR is very diverse for a one-month-old game, and I don't see how it doesn't attract different kinds of players. Some people don't like Psylocke, so they play Iron Man; some people enjoy being an assassin, so they play Black Panther; others want to play as a cute animal, so they choose Jeff.
This video had nothing to do about profit. It also isn't saying that marvel rivals is terrible just that overwatch did something really well and probably better in one aspect. You seem to be assuming a lot of information I didn't say.
No dude i do not want them to change the way they've been doing there character design's.
An artistic master piece every time i play the game, they spent time making the character's looking as aestheticlyappealing as possible.
Maybe overwatch wouldn't have had the problem of kiriko being rhe only one getting skins if ALL THE CHARACTERS LOOKED GOOD.
I don't want to play a game and have to look at chracters designs i don't like it doesn't matter if im mad or not if i don't like it why would i be there?
Ill come back and play marvels rivals every time just off the fact that i can enjoy every character design, you say diversity this diversity that, and guess what? No ONE LIKES the result.
"Oh marvels is going to die off" " oh your going to get tierd of mixing characters up"
No, no im not when i fight scenimatic master peice, when i did scenmatic masterpiece, when someone ult scenimatic master piece, when the game ends scenimatic master piece.
If your diversity means i dont get to see that every time just so you can "feel something different" flip u
First one was to harsh I apologize.
holy crap, speak english please. Don't you know the other 4channers here hate non-english speakers like you?
Brother, spell check is readily available.
@@YeetmanSkeetman your last comment on this video was 15 hrs ago why are you still here 💀💀💀💀💀
@@Ninthtry9103 UA-cam’s notification system is bizarre and tells me about random comments
I don't think you mean so much 'diversity' as 'variety', and MR does have that, the winter Magik skin, the Luna glamour one too, for instance. Also, Seems like everyone forgot about Squirrel Girl.
And you can gas on and on about silhouettes until the end of the world, I'll still think Venture is one of the dullest designs ever, if I didn't know it's from Overwatch I'd think it's from Concord.
"The diverse characters [...] attract more players" Uh-huh, where were these players before Concord's historic failure?
diversity and variety are literally synonyms
Still better game than OW2
I am having more fun with Marvel Rivals at the moment cause it feels like Overwatch Classic days but I always will love the art from the Overwatch team and have to give them credit.
@@Deathandgamingyeah. I hate OW2 but played OW until it got too stagnant and also now enjoy Marvel Rivals. However, OW around 2016-2017 was more fun than Marvel Rivals. People forget how big OW was and it also was a completely new IP which didn't have headstart unlike MR due to already existing huge fanbase behind Marvel. MR is a good and better game than OW 2 but it's also overrated because of how much people hate OW2.
Talking about characters designs I definitely have to agree with you even though I am not a big fan of basically any "new" character since Echo with the exception of maybe Junker Queen and Juno. I am aware of how massively popularMarvel is but personally I never really cared about their characters and never was a big consumer of their media. In this aspect I prefer IPs with uniquely for the game created characters like Overwatch and League (in Riot case amazing lore does the heavy lifting).
Also, not a fan of blending together silhouettes but also lack of SFX clarity in MR. Even kinda hate how many ults are just that big aoe blob. OW ults are much more interesting and unique. Love the MR gameplay and ban system. Always loved Venom, the game also introduced me to Magik and Scarlett Witch who for a superheroes(not a big fan usually) I do enjoy as characters. One of the cooler iterations I've seen of Spiderman too. His poses animations so dynamic, he looks and feels very athletic and acrobatic. Matches gameplay perfectly.
@@Luunacyy I agree with a lot of what you said. Peak OW1 was definitely better than Marvel Rivals and right now I'm sure it's getting a lot of attention for just not being Overwatch 2. I wish we had the lore and other media for Overwatch like Riot does for league. i can't help but feel that would keep people excited. I'm pretty sure they're dealing with a lot of corporate BS there keeping that stuff down leaving the team with not much room to work. also at the same time a lot of the design decisions are still on them and I have lots to say about that too. still though I would love to see Overwatch make a comeback as I love the characters and the world and the game itself back in OW1. still MR has some great additions to their game that I think OW should copy.
I dont agree but okay
Cope
Not what I agree with. You’re reaching, imo. You couldn’t figure out black panther from Cap? A blue character from a black character? OW is cool but Marvels characters are more recognizable to me, to mostly everyone. Respect your opinion, tho
oh I don't mean caps default costume but his galactic talon one. i don't know where people bought it but he was in all black and first time I got jumped on by him I was confused. sorry, i realize i should have put that in the video now.
rivalskins.com/item/20/captain-america-costume-galactic-talon/
@@Deathandgaming yeah the looks to be a limited time buy, was pretty dope but that makes more sense. I think OW characters are recognizable in their own right, for example, you can see a character and know almost immediately that it’s OW. Right after this video I watched my wife play Rivals and mix up Magik and Black Panther so lol I can see your point when it’s not me and my life long knowledge
He also apparently has a solid yellow outfit, so yesterday I was getting swarmed by 3 wolverines after Loki ulted.
Has rainbow flag in profile image. Tries to sell diversity for hero recognition. LOL!
Me when i don't watch the video
Bizarro reed richards:
I don't get it what's wrong with the rainbow flag?
@@Deathandgaming the guy got triggered from "diversity" in the title is what happened
THIS GAME IS DEAD COPE
A game could be dead and still have positive qualities about it. both can be true.
Overwatch is dead therefore a problem with marvel rivals is fine? I'm fairly certain overwatch took lessons from tf2 when it came to designing distinctive sihouettes, rivals really should have done the same somehow.
It's still a dead game💀
ALright I'm only doing this because I thought your discussions about design were insightful and more than the average youtuber were capable of but now I'm gonna unsub and leave with saying this. It doesn't matter how hard you try to justify this fact but NOBODY wants to play as non binary Venture or gay Soldier or Lesbian Tracer. Rivals just broke 600k and OW2 just slumped to its lowest 13k on Steam. I don't care what you have to say about readability because games like Team Fortress 2 that have been out for 10 years longer than OW have infinitely better readability than your "diverse" roster and they didn't have to force agenda on children to achieve it. I have never once looked at any of the characters in Rivals and not instantly known who I was fighting against not to mention tabbing to see what heroes you are facing since people swap all the time has been a thing for going on 9 years in OW. Get real.
@@testtube173 why does a character like venture bother you?
My brother in christ they're talking about how easy characters are to distinguish from each other
@@Deathandgaming because it doesn't add to the game atmosphere or story of overwatch. Here is an elite team of heroes blessed with skill and powers unlike anything the world has ever known. Meet Venture! A loveable tunneler that tunnels into the ground with they's handy giant tunnel gun. Also they is non binary and is asexual.
Look I understand this is a cold facetious look at the character but I'm using hyperbole to point out how nonsensical the writing is for "diversities sake". It's not good and well thought out it's there because they want kids to see it and think it's normal to believe they aren't really a girl or a boy.
I can tell by this comment alone you are ignorant of the marvel IP. Rivals will piss you off when they start introducing more and more characters. It's only a matter of time before you start hating on Rivals. Marvel has a deep bench of lgbt and diverse characters. Even Deadpool in the comics is Bi!
@@Deathandgaming because venture is poor design in looks lore and playstyle
When one of the only downsides a person can point out for Rivals is "the attractive white blonde woman looks like this other attractive white blonde woman" I am happy to say I left Overwatch after 6 years of devotion to it, if you cant discern between characters in gameplay based upon more than their skin colour you arent exactly very good at said game, I saw in the comments someone comparing Strange to Adam like they dont have two entirely different animation sets and appearances. Using Venture as an example as well in the thumbnail is just terrible too, she was the nail in the coffin for a lot of people as to the intentions of Blizzard going forward with Overwatch, she is ugly in appearance her voice makes me wanna chew nails and she just has no colour to her at all not to mention the SBI effect that is very blatantly apparent with her whole schtick.
Do people also forget the fact that cosmetics exist and that in Rivals they are absolutely gorgeous, have you seen the S1 battlepass that Logan skin is peak. People arent all gonna be running the default when the skins looks so damn good so comparing default C&D to default IW when the latter has an amazingly attractive skin 90% of people use is a bit redundant. Overwatch doesnt have that because half the skins are just recolours of recolours at this point are overly priced and are half the time just ugly (half the lunar event skins), there are so many skins I owned in overwatch where if I didnt want the completionist feeling of owning them I would rather have never unlocked from those lootboxes.
wow what an incel.
Zip it when you are done