There feels like there is an incredible stinginess in their financial side that prevents them from doing anything of substance to build back the trust of gamers, it's genuinely REALLY strange. It's basic business fundamentals that small contributions to consumer friendliness builds up your ecosystem over time but they havent ever shown distinct effort to take that leap. It's almost as if they don't ever want to show the players when they've made a mistake or acknowledge when there is a concurrent proplem. like how theres an elephant in the room of like roadhog, Orisa, and maugas design and they just don't acknowledge it at all.
I personally hate the two potentials of hog/Mauga/Orisa and mercy/lifeweaver/Moira. My hero pool with soldier echo likes Mercy a lot but I'd just prefer if this game stayed a shooter game with a bunch of decisions to make
@@megamecha100 I will say to be fair to devs the art and design people have no control over pricing usually. Typically those devs agree with lots of players. They are responsible for whatever is wrong with mauga or Orisa though.
It doesn't just 'feel like' we were lied to, we literally were lied to. They already knew the PVE was cancelled when they announced OW2 and promised it to us; they did that because they wanted to sell people OW2 content and get them to buy their stupid battlepass baloney. All for crappy skins and crappier game changes. I played OW since the launch and I loved that game, but it took a hard, HARD nosedive - largely because they piecemealed content out so freakin' slowly and made weird changes that didn't make sense but they did because of stupid content creators and top level players whining hard enough. It just butchered the whole game; I hope that it doesn't happen to Rivals, because trying to please everyone is a guaranteed way to please no one - Overwatch proved that by never managing to figure out what audience they were trying their best to please. It just leads to a mess no one wants.
I could agree with a lot of this cause most of it isn't up to conjecture, until you say they listened to content creators and pro players. They don't feel listened to either, are you talking about something obviously successful like reworking brig or something the pros and content creators were heavily saying no to like 5v5?
Through all the years of broken promises and other bullshit, I've always stuck by Overwatch and Blizzard. Why? Because at its core it's always been a game I enjoy. As long as I find the game enjoyable, I'm still going to play it. I enjoy Rivals too, I think it's a good game. I don't think it's a better game than Overwatch, but I do think it's a good game. I'll play both. Despite all the anger and tribalism, it IS possible for people to enjoy two things, and I think they should be allowed to.
the tribalism is kind of dumb. we are just talking about video games after all. both can succeed and do well and I hope they do. i hope blizzard turns it around cause I love playing Tracer. i just can't get down with 5v5 mega tanks.
Microsoft acquisition set a tone for the corporate side of Blizz to earn. That much is clear. I’m not sure how flexible the “nickel and diming” is going to be? Which just puts added pressure on the dev team to deliver content that is worth paying for; a monumental task given the, as Arin says, lack of trust and bounty of player frustration around Overwatch specifically. And then you have Rivals pulling a lot of OW streamers/marketing while putting out 3-4x the amount of content seasonally? In a very well known IP? I genuinely believe they need a new Overwatch game. Revive hope and possibility for everything failed to deliver and allow the players to find something to love again (and detach the ugliness that’s grown to be a part of OW2).
You're right; it's not okay, but I'm not sorry for saying what I've said about Blizzard and the decisions made for Overwatch. I've given up on overwatch unless there are REAL fundamental changes. I don't play Marvel Rivals or Overwatch anymore, but I play other games that value my time and money.
What about Rivals makes you think they don't value your time or money? Just asking out of curiosity - I've felt like they do value my time and general attention, because I got plenty of free currency through just playing the game. Similar to how original OW used to give out lootboxes for playing the game. And I never had to buy Rivals for $60 like I did original OW.
@@awhitney3063 I think its a general frustration towards F2P games, I get it they have to make money in some way, but i think there are people who would rather buy a complete package of a game and thats it. Yes you can earn stuff for free in Marvel Rivals but skins still cost $20+ just like in OW. $20+ is alot of money and with how the gaming industry is, I think there are products more deserving of that money than huge companies like NetEase or Blizzard. OW2 montization feels way worse than Rivals because everything was once free but if you really look at it both of the games are equally as greedy
@@awhitney3063 I think youre just wrong, Rivals skins cost about the same as OW and the Battlepass in Rivals is way less forgiving to people who dont purchase it. Somebody did the calculation and it would take a person about a year and a half to be able to get the battlepass completely for free of course they stay but compare that to OW which has the mythic shop (letting you buy old and new mythics) or that you get 600 premium currency for free on OW's bp, that means you only have to play 2 seasons before you get another free BP (4 months) and then you can get any mythic you want. I get what you mean having to pay $60, i did that too but also i payed $60 years ago and got years of free content, nothing lasts forever and lootboxes are a horrible practice
genuinely i think this is a grow up angle, like you said people need to establish a life outside of one game and if you cant do that then surround yourself with many different types of games. Big games and especially F2P games are so demanding of attention that i think it leads to their own downfall (in the case of OW and other games like Apex). It envelopes players and rewards them for only playing their game and this turns into what you mentioned with your reptilian brain and not wanting a part of you to change, alot of Streamers and UA-camrs are apart of this issue as well with them only streaming one game. People need to grow up and take a step back, look at other forms of media. Do we read one book over and over again? Do we watch the same movie over and over again? Do we listen to the same song over and over again? Most people dont and youre not supposed to, youre supposed to broaden your taste, read more different books, watch different movies and listen to new genres of music. Alot of the hate for OW is mostly because Gamers have a skewed way of consuming media
I think its easy with esport-type games to only think of them as a game (like soccer, chess, basketball etc) but its important to remember it is also a form of media and in a way an art form.
i think the model of fighting for attention has really messed up expectations for a lot of people. everything has to be immediate and free but free means they want your time. it's a dangerous trap to get in for anything. games, social media, streaming, etc... the stuff that brings people the most confidence are skills that they can't lose like art, sports, hobbies, etc... those things all take time to even get kind of ok at and it's hard to motivate people when most things are such immediate gratification now. especially with AI letting people think they can take shortcuts. i love gaming but the communities, players, content creators around it are so toxic and unhealthy with how they live their lives and view things. streamers also I understand stream just the one game cause it keeps making them money making this cycle worse. i don't know how to break it exactly. i try to make videos with a different opinion in hopes it does but I don't know. i worry about how serious people take gaming sometimes cause when I was kid they were just for fun.
@@Deathandgaming i agree, I think the f2p has been great at making games more accesible and getting more people into the community but the dangerous aspect is the fighting for attention. I think the industry has dug itself into a pit, its probably far more proftitable to be f2p than have an upfront price tag but it harms the way people view games and consume them. As of right now indie games are the so important for the medium as a whole, I wish more people would support those games instead of games like Fortnite, Rivals, Apex and Overwatch
For me, there was no forgiving three years of content drought and then cancelling the PvE. I have a lot of resentment towards Blizzard for that, and I finally have an avenue to voice that, and I’m taking it all the way to the bank and rejoicing in seeing them finally reap the dissatisfaction. The grave dancing is a bonus, but one I’ll gladly take.
That’s cool, but you have to acknowledge that you’re choosing to be emotional over the health of the genre, over the health of rivals itself. Like it or not, overwatch has to live so long as rivals and overwatch are the only two hero shooters that are in the space. Rivals will stagnate and die if it’s the only shooter in the space, that’s a big reason why overwatch suffered as long as it did. Monopolies are innately toxic to everyone, and to desire that rivals be the only shooter in the space is to wish it dies. We have to be rational, we have to be strategic, no point in getting emotional over some products. And the facts of the matter is that while the corporate structure at blizzard is still the same, the people that lied and fucked up the launch of overwatch 2 are not on the team anymore. The dev team is full of people not involved with that initial fuck up, and desiring they lose their jobs, their hard work over the sins of those who come before is just wrong. They should be given a fair shot, for everyone’s sake, and I think they’ve done pretty alright given the crap they’ve been working with.
😂 ow2 with 0 pve what that 2 for? Im not an ow guy, but when ow2 dropped, i played especially with the promise of pve, but once they scraped that i bounced, most of my friend group did as well. I personally dont see how you guys could trust Blizzard when they knew the pve wasn't coming even before releasing ow2. I've dropped games for less 😅.
There feels like there is an incredible stinginess in their financial side that prevents them from doing anything of substance to build back the trust of gamers, it's genuinely REALLY strange. It's basic business fundamentals that small contributions to consumer friendliness builds up your ecosystem over time but they havent ever shown distinct effort to take that leap. It's almost as if they don't ever want to show the players when they've made a mistake or acknowledge when there is a concurrent proplem. like how theres an elephant in the room of like roadhog, Orisa, and maugas design and they just don't acknowledge it at all.
I personally hate the two potentials of hog/Mauga/Orisa and mercy/lifeweaver/Moira. My hero pool with soldier echo likes Mercy a lot but I'd just prefer if this game stayed a shooter game with a bunch of decisions to make
@@megamecha100 I will say to be fair to devs the art and design people have no control over pricing usually. Typically those devs agree with lots of players. They are responsible for whatever is wrong with mauga or Orisa though.
It doesn't just 'feel like' we were lied to, we literally were lied to. They already knew the PVE was cancelled when they announced OW2 and promised it to us; they did that because they wanted to sell people OW2 content and get them to buy their stupid battlepass baloney. All for crappy skins and crappier game changes. I played OW since the launch and I loved that game, but it took a hard, HARD nosedive - largely because they piecemealed content out so freakin' slowly and made weird changes that didn't make sense but they did because of stupid content creators and top level players whining hard enough. It just butchered the whole game; I hope that it doesn't happen to Rivals, because trying to please everyone is a guaranteed way to please no one - Overwatch proved that by never managing to figure out what audience they were trying their best to please. It just leads to a mess no one wants.
I could agree with a lot of this cause most of it isn't up to conjecture, until you say they listened to content creators and pro players. They don't feel listened to either, are you talking about something obviously successful like reworking brig or something the pros and content creators were heavily saying no to like 5v5?
Through all the years of broken promises and other bullshit, I've always stuck by Overwatch and Blizzard. Why? Because at its core it's always been a game I enjoy. As long as I find the game enjoyable, I'm still going to play it. I enjoy Rivals too, I think it's a good game. I don't think it's a better game than Overwatch, but I do think it's a good game. I'll play both. Despite all the anger and tribalism, it IS possible for people to enjoy two things, and I think they should be allowed to.
the tribalism is kind of dumb. we are just talking about video games after all. both can succeed and do well and I hope they do. i hope blizzard turns it around cause I love playing Tracer. i just can't get down with 5v5 mega tanks.
It's a product famalam
Microsoft acquisition set a tone for the corporate side of Blizz to earn. That much is clear. I’m not sure how flexible the “nickel and diming” is going to be?
Which just puts added pressure on the dev team to deliver content that is worth paying for; a monumental task given the, as Arin says, lack of trust and bounty of player frustration around Overwatch specifically.
And then you have Rivals pulling a lot of OW streamers/marketing while putting out 3-4x the amount of content seasonally? In a very well known IP?
I genuinely believe they need a new Overwatch game. Revive hope and possibility for everything failed to deliver and allow the players to find something to love again (and detach the ugliness that’s grown to be a part of OW2).
You're right; it's not okay, but I'm not sorry for saying what I've said about Blizzard and the decisions made for Overwatch. I've given up on overwatch unless there are REAL fundamental changes. I don't play Marvel Rivals or Overwatch anymore, but I play other games that value my time and money.
What about Rivals makes you think they don't value your time or money? Just asking out of curiosity - I've felt like they do value my time and general attention, because I got plenty of free currency through just playing the game. Similar to how original OW used to give out lootboxes for playing the game. And I never had to buy Rivals for $60 like I did original OW.
@@awhitney3063 I think its a general frustration towards F2P games, I get it they have to make money in some way, but i think there are people who would rather buy a complete package of a game and thats it. Yes you can earn stuff for free in Marvel Rivals but skins still cost $20+ just like in OW. $20+ is alot of money and with how the gaming industry is, I think there are products more deserving of that money than huge companies like NetEase or Blizzard. OW2 montization feels way worse than Rivals because everything was once free but if you really look at it both of the games are equally as greedy
@@awhitney3063 I think youre just wrong, Rivals skins cost about the same as OW and the Battlepass in Rivals is way less forgiving to people who dont purchase it. Somebody did the calculation and it would take a person about a year and a half to be able to get the battlepass completely for free of course they stay but compare that to OW which has the mythic shop (letting you buy old and new mythics) or that you get 600 premium currency for free on OW's bp, that means you only have to play 2 seasons before you get another free BP (4 months) and then you can get any mythic you want. I get what you mean having to pay $60, i did that too but also i payed $60 years ago and got years of free content, nothing lasts forever and lootboxes are a horrible practice
If this was a 90 day fiance situation, Blizzard would be Big Ed, and we would be Liz.
underrated content creator
Thank you
genuinely i think this is a grow up angle, like you said people need to establish a life outside of one game and if you cant do that then surround yourself with many different types of games. Big games and especially F2P games are so demanding of attention that i think it leads to their own downfall (in the case of OW and other games like Apex). It envelopes players and rewards them for only playing their game and this turns into what you mentioned with your reptilian brain and not wanting a part of you to change, alot of Streamers and UA-camrs are apart of this issue as well with them only streaming one game. People need to grow up and take a step back, look at other forms of media. Do we read one book over and over again? Do we watch the same movie over and over again? Do we listen to the same song over and over again? Most people dont and youre not supposed to, youre supposed to broaden your taste, read more different books, watch different movies and listen to new genres of music. Alot of the hate for OW is mostly because Gamers have a skewed way of consuming media
I think its easy with esport-type games to only think of them as a game (like soccer, chess, basketball etc) but its important to remember it is also a form of media and in a way an art form.
i think the model of fighting for attention has really messed up expectations for a lot of people. everything has to be immediate and free but free means they want your time. it's a dangerous trap to get in for anything. games, social media, streaming, etc... the stuff that brings people the most confidence are skills that they can't lose like art, sports, hobbies, etc... those things all take time to even get kind of ok at and it's hard to motivate people when most things are such immediate gratification now. especially with AI letting people think they can take shortcuts. i love gaming but the communities, players, content creators around it are so toxic and unhealthy with how they live their lives and view things. streamers also I understand stream just the one game cause it keeps making them money making this cycle worse. i don't know how to break it exactly. i try to make videos with a different opinion in hopes it does but I don't know. i worry about how serious people take gaming sometimes cause when I was kid they were just for fun.
@@Deathandgaming i agree, I think the f2p has been great at making games more accesible and getting more people into the community but the dangerous aspect is the fighting for attention. I think the industry has dug itself into a pit, its probably far more proftitable to be f2p than have an upfront price tag but it harms the way people view games and consume them. As of right now indie games are the so important for the medium as a whole, I wish more people would support those games instead of games like Fortnite, Rivals, Apex and Overwatch
♥
For me, there was no forgiving three years of content drought and then cancelling the PvE. I have a lot of resentment towards Blizzard for that, and I finally have an avenue to voice that, and I’m taking it all the way to the bank and rejoicing in seeing them finally reap the dissatisfaction. The grave dancing is a bonus, but one I’ll gladly take.
That’s cool, but you have to acknowledge that you’re choosing to be emotional over the health of the genre, over the health of rivals itself.
Like it or not, overwatch has to live so long as rivals and overwatch are the only two hero shooters that are in the space. Rivals will stagnate and die if it’s the only shooter in the space, that’s a big reason why overwatch suffered as long as it did. Monopolies are innately toxic to everyone, and to desire that rivals be the only shooter in the space is to wish it dies.
We have to be rational, we have to be strategic, no point in getting emotional over some products. And the facts of the matter is that while the corporate structure at blizzard is still the same, the people that lied and fucked up the launch of overwatch 2 are not on the team anymore. The dev team is full of people not involved with that initial fuck up, and desiring they lose their jobs, their hard work over the sins of those who come before is just wrong. They should be given a fair shot, for everyone’s sake, and I think they’ve done pretty alright given the crap they’ve been working with.
I doubt that you have confidence in Blizzard's ability to regain players.
confidence, no, but i do hope i'm proven wrong.
😂 ow2 with 0 pve what that 2 for? Im not an ow guy, but when ow2 dropped, i played especially with the promise of pve, but once they scraped that i bounced, most of my friend group did as well. I personally dont see how you guys could trust Blizzard when they knew the pve wasn't coming even before releasing ow2. I've dropped games for less 😅.
Rent free
Overwatch is DEAD