The $5billion deal that German fans don't want
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2023
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German football is seeking new investment. In terms of international broadcasting revenue they sit behind Serie A, LaLiga and the Premier League. So Deutsche Fussball Liga have created a proposal to bring in more revenue.
What is the proposal? How will it work? And why is there such opposition in Germany?
Seb Stafford-Bloor explains, Craig Silcock illustrates.
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#Bundesliga - Спорт
As a german ULTRA i can say this: We don't want money from investors. We don't want a restructuration of our League. We don't care about big Tournaments or their Prizes. We just want to Watch our Clubs play on the weekends and support them with everything we've got. We don't need to win the league or play the highest form of football to care about or love our Clubs, and we certainly don't need people further commercializing OUR sport.
We don't care 1 club keeps winning everytime😂
Then stop complaining about the premier leagues dominance and financial power
@@dennisgichohi5392 We litteraly don't. If you need to win the league as incentive to love your club you're not a fan.
@@wordswolvesKSC so I guess Leicester city were stupid to ever think they could win the premier leugue?
@@juniorkhomari1850 Any leicester city fan who needed to win the league to attend their owner's club's games or even care about it is a plastic fan in my books, yes.
Many arrogant premier league fans think that germans are looking at the prem with envy, yet the german fans viciously fight every attempt of the DFL to make the Bundesliga more like the Premier League. Now how does that fit?
we're looking at the fairer TV money distribution with envy. But literally everyting else the PL does would be a nightmare scenario for BuLi fans.
Let them try and not be like the premier league ,it’s why their league is fallen apart at the seams ,finally looks like a team about to beat Munich to a league title and guess what ? That teams manager,best players and best staff will all be gone next year ..! German clubs outside of Bayern in Europe are flat out embarrassing
@Evanmac88
Even if we wanted to go along with ur ridiculous money obsessed league
No amount of money from investors could come close to the unlimited money funds of premiere league clubs
If we pay 200mil € ur saudi friends pay 300mil or whatever they have to since their is no limit to their purse
U already made a mockery out of the financial FairPlay system
Despite being proven guilty in multiple charges
I support a 4th decision team that’s been there for about 10 years now and would rather spend the rest of my life down there than see investors ruin our sport for their financial gain
We still average more than 15k viewers and it would be like that for many more German clubs
U don’t even see what all these investors have done to ur fan culture inside stadiums
It’s a disgrace compared to former times
Ur ticket prizes and stream prizes are absurd
Half of the population can’t even get close to financially support those
In what universe would I want that?
U go right ahead in ur Clowns league I couldn’t care less aber cl or el
@@EvanMac88 Why it bothers you that every german club outside of bayern is flat out embarrassing in europe while german fans don't care about that?
You and the german fans have obviously a different understanding about football it's culture and about what's important.
You try to mock them for something they take pride in.
@@EvanMac88lol how many german teams are in tge champions league semi final and how many english clubs are there? Hilarious that ur great english clubs constantly get embarassed by the german teams from what u call a farmers league. I will support my 2nd division team even if they might get relegated because i have supportet them as long as i can think. You sold your league to foreign investors and youre not even getting internationally sucessful football clubs in return.
Bayern and Madrid are constantly making a mockery of your overfinanced soulless league.
You can tell very easily that those who defend German Football fans are those who actually have been to matches and paid for tickets transport etc etc and those who are mocking the league are those who have never been to a match in their life.
Not really I went to many Bundesliga matches. German clubs need investments. They must sell their fan ownership to billionaire owners in order to improve. Look at Man City, they were in 2nd division when Bayern won their 4th UCL in 2001. Now they thrashed Bayern by buying Bundesliga players like Haaland, KDB, Gundogan and Akanji. Now cash makes the difference.
@@sivaramlord9151 You literally throw any circumstance out of the window and just take 1 game as your argument. You disgard Bayern winning against psg... and that the Managment of Bayern did a trainer swap right before the game...
I do not think any argument of yours is well structured.
@@lemmyboy4107PSG is in a weaker league(PSG has no identity on the pitch)
@@icantthinkofacoolname1308 Does noone nowadays learn to form a complet Argument? please search the structure of an argument and build it, if you cant, dont reply to me in the future.
@lemmyboy4107 what I said is literally true
That is the number 1 criticism psg gets
The problem is that the DFL wants the Bundesliga to be the Premier League, no Bundesliga fan wants that.
The Premier is the best league in the world.
@@riptxdes he probably truly cares about his club. Remember when PL clubs get relegated, they broke the championship attendance records, the supporters follow the club through thick and thin. These are facts.
Your idea that somehow big clubs cannot have loyal fanbase while only the small clubs in a pathetic farmers league can have is peak saltiness and jealousy with zero logic. Have some shame.
@Leonard H. premier league have better attendance percentage than bundesliga. They have lower numbers because they have lower capacity stadiums on average. Use your dog brain and think for once. Embarrassing
@Leonard H. also your comment is completely irrelevant to the fact that big clubs can ALSO have loyal fans. Stop deflecting. Prove to me why big clubs must have zero loyal fans??? Clown
@@riptxdes BREAKING NEWS: football fan realizes that people enjoy seeing good football
As a german I happily accept that we cant compete with Premier League teams in the CL if that means our clubs cant be bought 100 percent :)
If I want to watch the big players I watch the PL but at home I want our football culture to survive, best of both worlds ❤
It can't strive if it is less competitive. German national team is starting to underperform when it was likely the best team in the world during the first half of last decade
German football culture is feeding Bayern 😂
@@spinyslasher658650+1 is not the reason why Bayern always wins. And if we would get investors Bayern could also get some…
@@HelmHammerhand1709 It's so weird isn't it? that so many thing that 50+1 is the reason bayern dominates. As a Swede we also have 50+1 and different clubs win all the time.
@@easyygo3008 The National team is a different topic since the next generation of German National players don´t play in the top teams. More money wouldn´t solve that problems since clubs could use the money to buy more foreign players and it probably won´t lead into investment in the national youth.
Much Respect and Support to the German Fans.
Why their league is sooo boring. Why compete if one team always wins?
@@qrterlber103103103 you think more money will solve this? If every Club gets 10 million euro bayern still be richer than any other club. You must be on drugs to think that this leauge is saved by more money
@@qrterlber103103103 so la liga is boring, epl is boring,few teams win why watch when yoi can narrow it down to top 2-3 teams. BVB couls had the title but they folded after a down year for bayern BVB still folding thats on them
@@qrterlber103103103oring ,i swear you didn't watch Bundesliga , it was one of the most interesting league even above pl , 3-4 goal in each game is very common 😅
@@rishabhpandey6631 I don't like to read books I know the ending to. We are not all the same.
What makes the Bundesliga special is that the people care about their football. They've seen what outside investments can do to football. I think its wise for them to stand against this for as long as they can. Football belongs to the people, and it should always be this way.
Yep, they've seen what outside investment can do and have decided that no, they prefer the Bundesliga to have one team and seventeen feeder clubs.
@@aidanmagill6769 Who cares if bayerns wins the league every year. If you need a League title as incentive to love your club, you're not a fan.
@@wordswolvesKSC agree
Yet is the most boring to watch as you know Bayern will win the title each season
@@12thMandalorian does not matter to them they just want to support their team and go home, different culture but just had to respect them imo
The reason German Football seems in such disarray is because, while yes, there are large problems within the DFL, league parity, and the way certain clubs are managed, it's primarily a 'mess' because the supporters of clubs actually have the power and organization to visibly protest against these injustices. Don't like that your favorite club in England raised the season ticket prices by 25%, the club will simply tell you to go argue with a wall alongside every other supporter because you play, quite literally, no meaningful role in decision-making in the eyes of many club owners/board members from other countries (and evidently inside Germany as well)...
Have you met the average English football fan? I don't want them anywhere near the decision making process of my club.
I mean most clubs here don’t have any huge raises in prices to that scale. Most clubs have at least some level of fan representation/communication with official fan groups which achieves a fair bit, even if fans hate owners a lot of work/progress is done behind scenes. So it’s not like you’re totally talking to a brick wall
@@AnonNomad the whole point is that its not just your club, its their club too. until someone buys it and shuts both you out
@@AnonNomad average foreign plastic. Local people should have input to how their local club is run
@@AnonNomad its like saying democratie is bad because see the average Person....
I'll never understand how Serie A dodged the farmers league allegations when Juve won 9 consecutive titles compared to Bayerns 10 while Italian teams did a lot worse than German teams in the last decade in Europe
Bayern Munich is 10 Times Bigger Than Juventus Thats Why
Thay have real giants in Ac Milan inter Milan unlike BVB who are not a real big club base on achievements
@@prashantgurung2635 that's not true juve have over 30 league titles and two European cups and historical Italy has some of the best clubs in the game
@@harolderhabor3550 Bayern Have 6 UCL Also This Decade After Real Madrid They Were The Strongest Club Italian Clubs Fall Down a Lot So Nobody Cared About Juventus Winning But Everyone Saw Bayern Dominance
@@mr-ov5gt My Point is This Decade Italian Clubs Were Non Existant in UCL And Bayern Munich Were Dominating Thats Why People Eyes Were More on Bayern so Indrectly Went to Bundesliga And Basically Started Calling Bundesliga Farmers League Because German Clubs Were Doing Good in Europe
Germany should not be trying to match income that is s inflated by dictatorships
They have a fan friendly league, keep it that way👍
19 Spurs that doesnt even get into ucl final 🥱
I would rather german football not play a role internationally ever again than seeing it devolve into something like the premier league
Yeah! After spending more than $100/month on streaming services you fans can still not afford to watch all the matches of their favourite clubs lol
@@ulrichleukam1068 We just go and watch it live.
@@NameNr123 wusste nicht das in die Allianz Arena 300k Zuschauer passen du opfer
@@Jisu1337 Dann haste halt gelitten du Opfer
@@ulrichleukam1068the most expensive ticket of borussia dortmund is £280 season ticket by the way to enter yellow wall
Bayern Munich is £160
So even in streaming 100$ a month per year 1200$ which is £1,096.1
Even with most expensive tickets even we save £816.1 even if we miss one game we get it through youtube of club bundesliga
Why should we strife for being like a league where dictators and folk like the Glazers pull the strings and make massive bank, while the fan's value is measured by how much he spends at the fanshop?
I always notice that 80% of people complaining about Bayern dominting the League arent even german.
Its not like Bayern go on a invincibile run every season.
I support my club, yeah if we won the league it would be nice but as long as we play well and beat our rivals its okay.
Modern Football is all about succes that it forgets the soul of the game
I have also noticed that 90% of people complaining about the Premier League and it's sport-washing aren't even from the UK. You hear how dumb that sounds?
And Bayern definitely go on invincible runs more often that not.
It's fine to want what you want in the league, and the passion of German fans are to be appreciated, but don't expect to go toe-to-toe to the LaLiga (forget the Premier League) when you can't even comprehend the fact that football has been a business since at least the 90s, and it's not going to change that way. You can talk about how great the Bundesliga is all you want but you can't ignore Bayern winning the league 10 times, in a row, with minimal to no competition. By definition, it is a farmer's league, even more so than Ligue 1.
@@leisuretime7417 Man City is Going For Their 5th PL Title in Last 6 Years What Nonsense You Are Talking
This is why the German league has no one outside Germany watching it because there's nothing but Bayern winning every year. But if German people are happy with that then it's fine but you can understand why people from outside Germany who love football think the German league is a joke.
@@prashantgurung2635 At least there's actual competition in the Premier League, bro is straight up forgetting Liverpool winning the PL and Arsenal challenging them for the title while having a third of the wealth of MC. You don't see that in the Bayerndesliga, do you?
@@leisuretime7417 and Liverpool losing the title last year by a point on the final day
Second league team Düsseldorf even wants to make stadium entry free for all fans. 🥰
No way that's financially sustainable
@@opinionatortv6457 they plan to test this in some home games the next season. This season the stadium is half full, maybe it works if it is sold out and everyone get food and drinks? 🤔
@@opinionatortv6457 Probably it is, but it would take a good source of revenue away.
@@opinionatortv6457 they have sponsors financing it and their stadium is pretty empty rn, so getting more people in is a must
I would find it charming to test an option for everyone to pay after the game what they feel it was worth. It might lead to the team playing even more like the fans want them to? Maybe I am am too romantic...😁
I cant believe people think league round investment will break Bayerns dominance. Something like this will benefit the already rich clubs far more than the rest.
Personally as a Cardiff supporter i envy the bundesligas 50+1 rule. I have seen what rich foreigners can do to a football club that they see as their personal property.
Tf is Cardiff
@@firstnamelastname2948 Cardiff city in wales played in m premier league before
How does this benefit the already rich clubs? Reality literally showed the opposite. Brainless
You can’t make onesided if you want fair competition. Of course a club like Bayern would benefit from it but it also puts pressure on other clubs to be more professional and competitive for which they receive money. Just look at the big German clubs which have sunken in management incompetency and cronyism for decades. Other clubs would also benefit since German clubs already have a lot going for themselves: infrastructure, strong economy, fans and access to top European football
@@grapefruitsyrup8185 because its for the whole league. Don't get me wrong the others would also benefit but the rich ones would benefit as much and probably more in the long run.
Think before you comment idiot.
As a Köln supporter I can say, I don’t care that English people claim to have the best league in the world and I don’t care that Bayern wins the Bundesliga every year, I don’t care that you call us farmers, I care for my club and I care for going to the stadium to celebrate the club together with other Köln Fans. 50+1 is the best thing imaginable. It is within our responsibility as Fans that we do not accept investors and stupid marketing clubs like RB Leipzig
As a german football fan i can say that i would rather have no german team in an international competition, than having Standards like the Premier League. Football should be for the fans instead of getting milked for money and titles so that some human right abusing owner can flex with all the silverware. Is the Bundesliga the best League if you look at it from a competitive point of view? Definitely not. But it is as close as it gets to Football how it should be. I am studying at a university so i dont have that much money. But i can easily afford going to every stadium in Germany and i am sure that apart from a few exceptions, i am getting goosebumps from the atmosphere. Everyone calling our League a Farmers League never truly loved Football.
It's these type of things that always make me cheer for German clubs over others in CL, EL and UECL, because their fans just care about football and not the money.
Side note, I am from the Netherlands, so a little bit of neighbor bias is also in place.
The Bundesliga and German ethos should be looked at with envy. Carl Anka recently said ''I rebuke the idea of state ownership'' - intimating the German model is the best, I totally agree. Dortmund Frankfurt and Bayern fans especially are brilliant, really elite. They are very successful clubs and why change it? No need to, really none. Bayern or Dortmund will always give the other big teams in Europe a real fright, that will never change. I especially have a soft spot for Dortmund and St. Pauli.
Forza St. Pauli
@@lovisgolunski1394 defo :)
Nur der HSV min jung
That hypocryte didnt rebuke American billionaires
beeing proud as a german is a tough thing sometimes, seeing our fan and clubculture respond to european superleagues and investors makes me proud to be german
Yeah. Being proud on things you didn't earn is typical for people who want to prevent other from success. Go to North Korea if you want full control over markets.
@@klemsnslabge i see you got the point
Why does the Bundesliga future depend on new investment?
Why does it matter if it competes with the Premier League?
Your average HSV or Schalke fan isn’t going to stay at home and watch the EPL on TV instead of going to watch their team.
Germany is the model that other European football fans look at with jealousy.
Because the Bundesliga will be even more drained of talent
@@doncorleole2356 Maybe, but we watch football and support our clubs not because of the player. It helps if you have players that identify themself with the club but at the end i am watching football for my club and they dont need to play at the highest level for me to support them.
@@technine967 sure but what football fan wants their club to never get better and eventually one day climb up the ranks? The goal of elite sport is to try and compete and win.
@@chy.0190I can tell you that this is the mentality here. If there is some sort of investment to make the club better, than in the moment the club accomplishes something, the comment sections are filling up with 90% of hate and critics
As a someone outside of Europe who doesn’t have a local team, I’ve really wanted to watch the bundesliga but it isn’t a league that readily available in my country. It’s just a shame that the things that benefit people like me make things worse for local fans
In the US you can get la Liga and bundesliga for $5/month and the prem for $5/month and serie A and euro comps for 5/month so 15/month to watch 4of the big leagues and champions league. It's so strange
Something like an affordable way to watch any Bundesliga game through streaming isn't even the issue, everyone would love that, the issue is to somehow connect that to billionaire investors taking control over the league to maximize profits
That's what will change with the investment.
@@vincesalamander5980 Sounds extremely egoistic and selfish to not want to share your culture and football with the rest of the world.
@@spinyslasher6586 It's not that I dont want to share. That's even the opposite. I think my country and the other around monopolized the attention, and I dont want that anymore.
I try to follow many championships all around the world. And each time I regret that people in these countries cant have top players, even the top players of their own country.
Like I said, I want that everyone must be proud of his own country.
The globalization is bas, according to me, because 1) the fans who come from the city feel that their club become a touristic attraction, which I regret
2) we erase the rest of the world from the map
That's what we saw now with every World Cup of clubs.
Although I can see the problem with this plan, a German Equivalent of LaLiga TV would not only be beneficial but absolutely necessary for Germany. The main reason is because most seasons, Germany's broadcasting rights are Split between too many different Providers. Some games are exclusive to DAZN (which doubled their price last year), others are on Sky Germany (which is super expensive by nature) and I think some even went to RTL+
The 21/22 Season in Germany was over 75€ PER MONTH in streaming service subscriptions to be able to watch all games. Your favorite team has a match on friday but you only got Sky? Too Bad, Friday games are DAZN only.
A unified single streaming service exclusively for the Bundesliga would ease the wallets of millions of Germans, especially in light of the rampant Inflation they are already facing in every other aspect of their lives
That i absolutely agree with
A Bundesliga streaming service could happen without foreign investment, it anything surely its more possible. On a side note, Sky often, but not always, stream friday games on the youtube, which is free for everyone.
And we get highlights of every match on UA-cam from first division to second division
As an American, I envy the German fans. I wish we had a league like the Bundesliga but unfortunately, I don't think we as fans could support the league. The fans are around, and it's been great for the sport in the states to see more and more people turn up to games, especially ones who have never cared for football/soccer in the past. However, with the popularity still below the top four sports in the country, a 50+1 style league would most likely collapse.
To be fair, the 50+1 ownership model is exactly how it is with the Green Bay Packers.
It has always puzzled me in the American leagues both football, American football, basketball, etc. why you don't have a connection between the lower leagues and the highest competition. Why denying yourself beautiful stories like Raków Częstochowa, who played at the 3rd level of the competition a few years ago and this year won the Polish championship for the first time in the club's history. Where a several-time champion after a worse period has to fight its way back to the highest level and where it can happen to a story l that your club from the district league will make its way to the highest level of the competition and play in European cups. Or a national cup where teams from all over the country and different levels of competition would compete for a trophy that entitles them to compete in international cups. Although looking at the level of clubs from CONCACAF this would be unlikely to be a better product than MLS.
But on the other hand you have draftees, which helps weaker clubs, and salary caps, which I think is a great solution and should come to football one day. Especially when you look at the absurdity that the top 5 leagues have brought to the football market around the world, where all it takes is for a teenage boy from Brazil to kick the ball well a few times and pass his medical tests and already representatives of clubs from Europe are flying in with bags of money.
The MLS is a joke of a league.
Funnily enough, the American system could actually be argued to be the best system after the 50+1 German system. I don't rate many things about America, but you do sports VERY well in your country. So hats off. On a side note, I love how important your home state is when supporting a NFL team. It might just be the way sitcoms portray it, but the sense that almost everyone from your state gets behind your state club is really admirable and beautiful. It's not the same with football, alot of people support their home club but especially in Britain they usually support a bigger club that isn't their home city. I guess it's because states are bigger and more culturally unqiue than city's, but it's really cool to see. I live in Cardiff and support Werder Bremen, my Nanas German team. But I will always be a Cardiff City season ticket holder and back them in whatever league they play.
@@mrsynth2643 No promotions and no relegations in the MLS.
We've seen HSV and Hertha in the Bundesliga using additional cash flows not for long-term investments, but for short-term fixes. As long as the DFL doesn't even specify what they need the money for and what should be *specifically* funded by the investor money, already looking for investors suggests that they are just looking for a quick way to raise money now costing them future profits.
So it's basically just a loan because ... more money now is nice and, well, we'll think about the interest payments later. 😉
As a HSV I can tell you that the relegation to the 2nd division was the best thing that could have happened to the club. In the Bundesliga we just got a lot of money for transfers (which is one of the main reasons ppl hated the HSV) and short term investments and got a worse transfer balance every year and lost the feeling for money. Down in the 2nd devision we improved our transfers a lot and are actually making more money of it every year. Fan support is still strong and the club learned how to deal with money and how to lead a healthy club which makes us better in the long run. That's why I'm not so sad about being in 2nd division rn. I actually think it just gives us more opportunity to keep a healthy club in 1st division while not being dependant on much money
@@bambyce "In the Bundesliga we just got a lot of money for transfers (which is one of the main reasons ppl hated the HSV)"
"How dare you not let your players run down their contracts and join Bayern or Dortmund on a free!"
German football is beautiful and every single fan should feel so proud of what they have and fight tooth and nail to protect it
As a United fan in South East Asia, I fully applaud the manner the German fans can think.
Dortmund fans don't want a billionaire to come in to fight Bayern and that is admirable.
Salute to them. They get it.
German supporters are smart enough to know there is no free lunch. American fans, take note!
Someone say no free lunch?
Here go the Germans thinking they’re better than everyone else again
As long the distribution of cash is based on success instead of fan interest, mor money would only make more problems. When plastic clubs like Leipzip, Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, which have no attraction, are being burried in cash and tradition rich, less successful clubs -Cologne, Bochum, Schalke, etc - having to turn their pennies, no outside money would change the distribution. I'd rather see the Bundesliga drop out of the top 5 leagues than have shady investors dissociate the clubs and fans.
@Julius Briggs absolutely horrifying indeed! The main problem is that the DFL opened this gate by allowing RB Leipzig to happen. Without this most extreme of outliers the rules would be more rigid and smaller investments, like Augsburg, Herta, would be highlighted more. RB was the first step to numben fans, and now rules appear to be looser. This is way plastic clubs shouldn't just be criticised but actively demolished.
@Julius Briggs going back to the beginning is very interesting, than you for sharing your information and opinions with me. I always wondered why exceptions very at all allowed and saw Leipzig as the club to negate the entirety of the rules. Again, thanks.
@@JuliusBriggs But for clubs like Leverkusen or Wolfsbourg, they must have an exception, didnt they ? Because, I mean, they were created by companies. So it will be unfair to stop Volkswagen or Bayer to invest in the team they founded decades ago.
For Hoffenheim, if I remember, the actual owner was born in the city, he played as a player in the club, and he was a minority owner during twenty years before he gains the control of the club. I mean : it's not a billionaire who buy a club like that to be his toy.
You dont think this exceptions are ok ? (I dont talk about RB Leipzig, of course)
@@JuliusBriggs Ok
But now do you think that, today, even if we stopped Wolfsburg or Leverkusen or Leipzig, the "more fans = more money" is fair ?
Because, for many people, they follow Bayern because they win. So it's just a cycle that repeat : they win, so they gain more fans, so they win again..
There is a Big flaw in the german system : it maintains a status quo.
This last decade, Bayern won EVERY championship, and Dortmund finish second 6 times !
Today, the Bundesliga way of 50+1 is the better way, yes, but his way of sharing TV rights is the worse ! Bayern won 5 times what Augsburg could win.
A normal kid who started to follow football in Bayern will 90% of time started to follow Bayern instead of Augsburg, because Bayern have already the best players, the best marketing, the best everything.
@@vincesalamander5980 Traditional British Interests are the villains, and they are represented through status-quo institutions such as Man United & Arsenal feeling they deserve to be top without having merit to back it up
I've been a BVB fan for as long as I can remember and will probably always be. When I saw the south for the first time and could feel the stadium, it was all over me. I knew: "This is my club". Of course I didn't know that years later we would be champions, but of course it crowned that. In recent years I've seen players come and go, seen Bayern win the league and see us second. And has that changed anything about my love? No of course not. Success was never a reason to be a fan. Of course a 4:4 against Stuttgart or a 2:3 against Bremen's cost me a lot of life time, but in the end that's just as much a part of the sport as a 3:0 at Schalke.
It would be boring if you win everything anyway and human rights violations were accepted as a result. For my part, I don't need it and I don't want it either.
To be clear: The last sentences mainly refer to the comments here, which are generally about investors.
From a portuguese, who saw my small club being destroy by shady owners, you guys are in right path. Is not about winning, is about being in the right side of history. Soon or later Germany football is going take the profit of their actions.
I respect german football much more than petrodollar Premier League 🇵🇹🤝🇩🇪
One of the main reason German Football is so good and well functioning is due to their fan culture, 50+1 and style of play. Even if one of these factors get harmed, German football will become ordinary just like other leagues.
Yeah you mean BundesBayernMunich league?!😂
Yep. Germany prefers being a one team league.
That's the main reason behind Bundesliga being less competitive and no big spending tranfer windows
@@zelcpavle5494 You absolute bellend. It's called the BayernLiga. Don't mess up the spelling of our Speciality.
@@zelcpavle5494 yet Germany continues to produce some of the world’s best talent and wins trophies. The golden age of England national team hasn’t won anything significant since 1966. Go glory chase elsewhere and let us true football fans enjoy the sport they love.
In a perfect world every league on Earth would be run like the Bundesliga. I support a club with a foreign owner and massive wealth, but I'd gladly risk not being a top 10 club in the world every year for all football worldwide to be owned by the fans
As a Man United fan, wish we had the 50+1 rule.
Pl fans: celebrate when their club got taken over
BL: 50+1 Rule and nothing but hate for Teams like Hoffenheim and RB with owners
The thing is German football fans are actually fans of football not some product infused with money purely to entertain like American sports.
It’s about emotional connections to your club. That’s why 2nd Kaiserslautern has comparable rates of people coming to the stadium like PSG.
PSG, ManCity and Chelsea are barely empty hulls painted with the logo of their club. There is no sense in getting that money and success if you are not existing anymore.
Emotional connection, lol Jesus Christ it’s just a soccer team, odds are 99% of the fans don’t personally know anyone on the team, and never will. I get being passionate about the team but acting like they’re your family is so overly dramatic, but pretty par for course for divegrass fans
@@3456coolkid wow, its rare to read such an uneducated comment about football in a Tifo video, congrats
@@jonathanwillmer As expected the Bayernliga fan gets butthurt when someone criticizes his soccer farmers league. Whining without actually responding to anything
@@3456coolkid my comment doesnt even have anything to do with the Bundesliga, I dont even watch, but if you dont understand how fans are emotionally connected to their clubs then you dont know the first thing about football (and I wouldnt expect otherwise from someone who calls it soccer)
@@jonathanwillmer I don’t have to, regardless of how obsessed you are with it, soccer is still a sport just like any other and I understand sports. I have my own teams I support and yeah I get really invested, and am heartbroken when we lose big games, but at the end of the day I won’t let it personally affect me on a deep emotional level, only someone with nothing else going on in their life would
Everybody says that Germany is a one club league. Sure that's maybe true but this one club is still way more successful in the Cl most of the time than big club investors like the Premier league has. The 50+1 rule makes the Bundesliga a very special league. Sure we have maybe only one "top top" club but at least we can be proud of the construct which we have here. When there's only Bayern left in the CL, (I think) most of the people living in Germany loves to see when Bayern wins against the soul less clubs out there.
Bayern getting more money to be more dominant lol
I dont want to see a german Club winning 2-1 in the Championsleague at home and still having quieter Fans than 2000 Fans from the other Club. Just watch Chelsea against Dortmund again, Dortmund Fans were louder than the whole Stadium, only when the Goals were scored and when the game concluded Chelsea fans actually made some noise. Thats just sad, premier League Fans only support their Clubs if they are winning. Now Imaging what would happen if Chelsea would be demoted into the Championship...bankrupt no more fans to show.
Why is Bundesliga considered a "farmers league" due to Bayern dominance by some but not Serie A when Juventus won 9 scudettos in a row three years ago or when Manchester City win 5 out of the last 6 Premier League titles?
Bayern can and do buy any player they want in that league, the same doesnt go for any of your examples. It's hard to compete when the biggest club can cherry pick who they want, Sommer for a recent example. One month Neuer gets injured for the rest of the season, Bayern buy one of the best keepers in the league the next.
@@SirAmnesia I think there are plenty examples where Juventus bought key players from domestic competitors: Vlahovic, Chiesa, Pellegrini, Bremer (from FC Torino even), Locatelli, Kulusevski, Romero etc.
Same goes for Manchester City: Think about Grealish, Phillips, Mahrez...
The biggest clubs usually don't mind weakening their direct competitors, it's not unique to Bayern or the Bundesliga. And don't forget City snatched Haaland from under Bayern's nose, Bellingham will leave for Madrid.
Lol, you Bundesliga fans live under rocks or something😂 everyone was calling Serie A a farmers league for years when Juve was dominating, don't be delusional😂 stop trying to look for sympathy and acting like Bundesliga is the only league being called a farmers league; it ain't our fault that german football is uncompetitive at the moment.
Nah, I didn't hear anything about farmers league when Ronaldo went there. Everyone was celebrating him for picking another "top 5 league". Besides I'm well aware that Ligue 1 is also called a farmers league and honestly I think the label farmers league as a whole is useless.
Serie A was considered a farmers league a few years ago. But at least that league has other massive clubs who compete and won league titles, aswell as CL success.
Bayern have won 15 out of the last 20 league titles. In many of those seasons, they were 20 points clear in December.
Decision was made today. The deal is off the table!
Tifo can you do a video about the CVC deal in La Liga just so people outside Spain understand the positives and the negatives of it and why a lot of clubs don't want to sign it.
I think that making sure FFP and sustainable business models are adhered to as well as doing well to ensure that inequity in the league doesn’t grow (more evenly distributing TV deal revenues to subsidize the non-Bayern munichs of the world) is all they can do and still hold onto their clubs. There honestly may be a massive reckoning coming towards those clubs that spend unsustainably and the Bundesliga could have the ability to capitalize on that and prove their standing in Europe.
That said, if German football needs to fall by the wayside in Europe and becomes less competitive versus financially doped teams at least they’ll still have their soul and be playing for local fans, not for shirt sales and market capitalizations.
Praying for the fans to defeat this.
We did it
PSG is the perfect example for why money alone isn’t the answer in football. They may win the league every year because they outspend their fellows by a few times but they just can’t seem to succeed in Europe.. meanwhile Bayern won it three times since 2000 and Frankfurt won the Europa League last year
But it will most likely still lead into a UCL trophy one day. Clubs who play fair like Freiburg oder Mainz will not win UCL in our lifetime.
There are things more important than money.
Haha tell non Bayern clubs this.
@@nightking8490 Yeah and they will agree. It is frustrating sometimes that we have a very tight budget? Yes. But it is far better then being owned by a Saudi family or American billionairs.
@@the_l_generator1779 Agreed. We don't need some billionaires controlling our club.
Yes like making sure BUYern wins the league at all costs
@@nightking8490 i am a schalke fan. I would rather see them relegated again than it becoming an investment or a toy for some billionaire
Quick correction 3:49 not signal iduna park, its called Westfalenstadion. Since 1974 and forever
Great sharing. Its wonderful information..
the crowds german gets is amazing. fan culture is unrivaled but they must get sick of bayern winning the league every year cause i know i am
Bayern do a disservice to the whole league by taking the best players from any rival teams. Why would you want to win like that? It defeats the purpose of a competition.
Alternative number 1- ticket prices for supporters remain cheap and train tickets are free
Or Alternative number 2- to appease couch sofa fans like yourself and get different Bundesliga winners but ticket prices are tripled.
I live in London and refuse to go to premier league matches because the prices are ridiculous. I go and watch championship matches instead which has a culture far similar to the Bundesliga and its a million times better
@@jamesmccarthy6764 LMAO do your research. Bayern is ranked 10th in that regard. Dortmund lead. and we know EPL steals from the bundesliga. look at Man city squad is full of bundesliga players NOT from Bayern
@@jamesmccarthy6764 that’s factually incorrect
I mean if it wasn't Bayern, how many other teams would be in contention? BVB, Leipzig, Leverkusen maybe? It still wouldn't matter to most supporters, same for every league, unless your team is in contention to win (which is rare, because even in the most competitive leagues the title is passed between 3-4 teams) why would you care if the same team wins it every year?
I think they are right to be concerned about private investment. In the U.K. it has its pros and cons. Pros you will see clubs like Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal. But on the flip side when the league allows a club to be mismanaged you have situations like Derby, Birmingham city and West Brom.
Liverpool fsg haven't put a penny in
Aaaand it failed. Thank goodness!
I don't care about winning international cups, I just want to be able to afford a ticket, have a great atmosphere in the stadium and support my team, no matter the outcome! Not everything needs to be commercialised to the absolute maximum.
But at the end of the day, do you realize that Bundesliga's value will go down significantly throughout the year especially when other competitors from different countries can get investors to invest their money in the club? I understand your reasoning since you guys want to get an affordable ticket for watching your club, but don't you guys think about the continuity of your club's survival while looking at other clubs from other countries spending much more money for their good? All prices have increased, what if in the future your club cannot afford things such as quality new players, facilities, and high-quality coaches? Not to mention the many possible new investors from China, Arab, Africa, and probably Russia when the war ends trying to "spend their money" into one football club. I'm kind of interested what's your points on these things.
@@yohanaratri7617 I believe in the long run investors will just hurt a club and league. They don't gift anyone money, they see it as an investment and when that investment isn't profitable they will quit and pull out. That has happened to multiple clubs already and in the long run will probably happen more often. The highly inflated prices for players at the moment are just another bubble that will burst sooner or later and keeping out of that might be the best thing to do in my opinion.
And in this case specifically the league would have given away significant amounts of revenue for a really long time in return for the investment and while the money might have helped in the short term those earnings missing for two decades will surely hamper future growth which would probably lead to more investments, more profits being given away and so on.
Nice video thanks for sharing with us
As a fan of the German club SC Freiburg, I totally disagree with investors coming into our beautiful sport. The Bundesliga shouldn’t be used to create money. It should create emotionality
More investment= higher quality football and teams either then Bayern challenging for the title
I rather have a emotional fight against relegation than a title race, which is bought with money
@@marvinschneider9309 Definetly! Fans, Players and Christian Streich loving the Club is much more inportant than money!
It's an easy question... Do we want to be the second Premier League or the first Bundesliga?
Great video but the ball made me think of Spain and not germany
You explain in detail and indepth
We don't want to become the toys of the super-rich and investors.
Abramovich and Chelsea should make people sit up and take notice.
Suddenly no one knew how to proceed when Abramowitch's funds were frozen.
Hardly any of these super-rich clubs can finance themselves without investors. The price spiral was driven mercilessly upwards and I am extremely surprised that the English fans just go along with it.
And we don't want that!
sry google translator ^^
tifo i love u guys but i just clocked the 50+1 graphic has 90 footballs in total and i cant unsee it 😭😭
It's 50% of the shares +1... since the total is 90, they show 46 highlighted balls (45 from 50% + 1 )
I'm sure I don't understand the whole picture, but it just feels like big money/ big investors in sports will lead to something bad. And it's not like the Bundesliga is poor or something and desperately needs the money. So no need to engage in anything risky with a decade long commitment.
I think that the BL does Not need an Investor. First as a Stuttgart fan i don't care what Bayern does in the cl but they always make it seem like that's the most important thing. If the DFL would Start distributing the money evenly the League Would draw more fans as it Would be closer and it would generate more money. But that Would hurt the rich Clubs so it will never happen. Instead they want to bring in an Investor and are naive enough to belive that that Investor Would Not want to have any saying what so ever...
I'm no German. But I have a soft spot for the Bundesliga because it is the only league that isn't an advertisement for Gulf states' attempt at whitewashing their image. Moreover, I have questions about the EPL's "advantage" seeing that pretty much every team there is losing money. Seems to me like the reason they can't balance their budget is because they don't have to. Some rich oil baron will pay the bill anyway
EPL teams losing money? Mate..just because some EPL teams operated on a "loss"....does not mean they are broke......coming in podium places...sponsorship...stadium attendance.......EPl broadcasting tv points made EPL profitable...
Term you’re looking for is “sportswashing” not whitewashing. Just learned that was a term in this comment section😂
@@myownlilbubble Atleast in transfer market they are
They don't produce wonderkids or new talents as much as the Bundesliga or Serie A additionally they are the ones playing big buck for wonderkids way above what their actual price should be then the player flops and it's all a new cycle again....
I mean look at Nottingham forest or Chelsea
@@derraumdeuter3671 but still a better league over all I mean Bayern got schooled by City am Chelsea beat Dortmund what's the point of a sport if their is no competition
@@harolderhabor3550 but who‘s fault is it that there isn’t any competition? And German clubs have been fairly successful in International competitions anyway (for example Eintracht Frankfurt or Bayern). Also, if you‘re going to sell 100% to a billionaire or even a whole country, while others refuse to do so, who are you to complain that there is no competition? If the EPL begin dominating and their fans get bored, it’s the EPL‘s own fault.
Nice to see German fans trying to fight back against this, shame that the league has been stuck with Bayern (currently) ruling things over the last decade or so.
Bayern can win every season as long as we don't accept investors i don't care. Bayern has more money, but all their money is earned so we cant blame them.
@@KoggeAhoi_1965 what a pathetic mindset lmao
Leverkusen won it this season anyway.@@KoggeAhoi_1965
Great video, kinda confusing that the german football looks like spain tho.
That’s what I thought too, probably the only way to do it since the dots on the ball are black
Football belongs to the people. But the trophies belong to Bayern Munich.
At least Bayern can't win the DFB Pokal on a consistent basis because knockout games have more of a luck factor in them
@@romiarkan450Check who has the highest DFB Pokal among the German teams.
@@KenDeo1997
Yes but in the last 11 Seasons they won it 6 times that means we need the play offs in Germany 👀😉😊
And the Premier League belongs to Manchester City...
@@gandalfderlaue They have less league titles than Arsenal. There are three or four more teams above them, they are only dominating because of Pep.
Bayern have 15 out of the last 20 lol
American , can’t sleep 2:05 AM
Zimbabwean in Germany 08:15am
British, CAN sleep at 0205am 😂
keep investors out!
german football belongs to the people
Informative
Don't fix what isn't broken
It can be a good deal if done right.
The investors arend't hedgefunds that look for a quick profite but private equity funds that look for long-term profite. To maximize their profite they have to make the league more attractive to get better TV deals, which means more money for the clubs. But here are problems of course. The first one is the fear that the kickoff times will be split up more again. But fans in Germany have shown in the past how easy it is to protest that by causing chaos at the monday evening games.
Another problem, which still isn't solved yet, is that a huge portion of the money from the contract will be bound to specific kinds of investment. The DFL wants that clubs spend a lot of the money to modernize the stadiums, build digital structures and heavily invest in their online appearance to make the league more attractive. But it won't work retroactive. Clubs like Frankfurt and Freiburg for example invested douzen of millions each into their infrastructure in the past few years while other clubs did nothing and invested in players instead. Clubs that did nothing on their infrastructure now have the money for modernisations while clubs like Frankfurt will sit on money they can't use until some work at the stadium has to be done in 10 - 20 years. This is a huge disadvantage for these clubs if the DFL dosn't decide that money spend on infrastructure in the past couple years carries over and can be withdrawn from the investment deal money that is bound to infrastructure and digital projects.
As an Eintracht fan also,all i can say is i would rather watch my beloved SGE in the second Bundesliga and keep the 51% fan ownership system than have a rich owner and completely lose the spirit,soul,history and heritage of this club.This is what have happened to England.Bundesliga is not oerfect of course,but it's still the fans league and long may it continue.
private investment can also have it pros for the area of a football team. Man city area - eastlands was always a dump but since the saudi money it has spent and developed a large part of the city that was never going to be touched by the government. But football is for the people so more than happy for the germans to have sport integrity where they can spend 90mins just escaping the real world to enjoy the beautiful game.
There's one thing holding the Bundesliga back, and it's nothing to do with the English Premier League. It's the same team winning it every single year. Why would I watch a tournament with nothing at stake? TV viewers will watch matches of the top 6 or 7 in England and the top 5 or 6 in Italy. In Spain they want to watch Real Madrid and Barca tussle for the title, and to a lesser extent Atleti too. Why would they watch French or German football when they are so pointlessly uncompetitive?
Germany needs to find a way to share out TV money more evenly. Maybe the top 10 finishers each season should all get the same cash. They have a brilliant product that's only spoiled by its predictability and lack of consistent challengers.
The great Football "progress and innovation". One Supporter needs 99 Streaming Subscriptions to follow his team for one season. The Capitalist Agenda to frame opposing or critical Voices as some backwarded traditionalist never gets old. From Football to other social issues.
Agree, there are ways to watch without helping to further this madness.
More money doesn't magically create more great players, so all additional money will do is, make clubs pay more for the average players they already have.
Stakes are low but the top up
It was nice when bundesliga was shown on Fox sports 1 and 2 😢 also when peacock wasn’t around and just NBC sports and 1:34 I could switch from channel to channel and watch whatever game was interesting.
ESPN+ is definitely worth it
I get why people enjoy PL football as neutral observers, as I do myself. What I can't understand is how it is possible to be a fan of a club from the league. Why would you care about a club when it is the property of some random rich people or state who use it for their own benefit or interest. In a sense that's like cheering on Apple over Samsung on the stock exchange. If you own shares, fair enough, otherwise you're just rooting for someone's else's property to do well, because the marketing department is good at making you buy into the brand. So for me, selling out the Bundesliga like the PL was, means that I'm just a neutral observer of football. I'd still follow the sport, but it would mean less.
50+1 should be fiercely guarded. Will the 50+1 clubs get a vote?
Yes the 36 DFL Clubs are 32 50+1 clubs with the three exceptions most people here in Germany hate (RB Leipzig, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim and Leverkusen)
I mean the cash flow would help the clubs actually be able to compete in the future. If the fans are fine with the club being bad in order to keep the people in control then so be it. 🤷🏽
Useful information for fans
If you truly want a windfall, split TV rights equally among clubs.
It might make the league actually watchable.
I agree with the first and disagree with the second though i accept your opinion
Bayern win the thing year in and year out its near on impossable to compete tje question should'nt be is this good or bad for my club but is it good or bad for competition
Bayer leverkushen and stuttgart are changing it proving smart spending discipline a good coach and can make relegation to unbeaten and 3rd
It was just published that the ‘investors’ would have some rights to make decisions if this goes through.
This is all very hush hush and they are trying to give us as little information as possible.
Even it all does not matter because we have seen many times what happens when for maximum profit companies move in.
Before we need more money, we may start to split the money fair.
Better a farmer's league than a investor's league.
This is why the German football must be one of if not the best sport in Europe and the world farther better than the corrupted Premier League which have those two fake big clubs(Chelsea since 2003 and Manchester City since 2008)!!!FOOTBALL IS FOR THE PEOPLE TO WATCH,EMBRACE AND ENJOY EACH AND EVERY MOMENTS OF IT!!!LONG LIVE,GERMAN CLUB FOOTBALL FROM AN INTERRACIAL PERSON WHO HAS ENGLISH HERITAGE FROM MY ANCESTRIES!!!🇩🇪
Then you'll enjoy the demise of German football.
@@gerardkhachaturyan4814 No good friend,never at all daily and ever in this world and other planets!!!💪
Football belongs to the people. But the trophies belong to Bayern Munich.
@@mng-kz7fr Yeah good friend,but since Bayern Munich are struggling at the moment,I can see either Borussia Dortmund or Union Berlin winning this time!!!🙏🏻
@@depekthegreat359It was actually Leverkusen this season.Trotzdem,nur die SG Eintracht!
It's okay guys! They said they wouldn't raise ticket prices! Surely they would never lie to the public about such a thing, right?
I see what you did there with the edit at 3:38
Bundesliga, the league where 17 teams compete for the second spot.
Ouch 😮
More like 4 teams, because the others are way too inconsistent.
@@MrReese true but theoretically speaking it is all 17 teams.
City could win the next 5 in England, so step off of that high horse.
I mean the Premier League has been not so different for the last 5 and is going to get worse
Whatever makes it less a Bayern then everyone else league would be much appreciated
You dont support a German club. Worry about your domestic league. We are fine over here.
Yeh I also agree
Good information
This might be a dumb Idea but how about the split gives the lower finishing teams more then Bayern or Dortmund at the top? That way the "lower" teams would be able to sign better talent 🤔 (just an idea 😶 Otherwise is an even split for all the teams fair? 🤔🤔)
That would lead to crazy tanking of all mid table teams once they know they can't make it to Europe and won't be relegated, potentially heavily influencing all relevant outcomes of the league - the sport doesn't work when there is an incentive to lose
@@emymagkuchenExactly.
As mentioned above its not really smart to give the losers more money and most people want to see the top 4 play and not Bochum vs Ausburg, so it makes sense they get the most of the revenue
@@thepowerofsand6180 but also no one cares about clubs like leipzig and hoffenheim and leverkusen and they still get way more money than clubs like schalke
@@emymagkuchen The sport doesn't work when the same team comes first and Dortmund keeps coming second for a decade now 🤷🏾♂️ The current system ain't working so you a Bayern fan I guess 🤦🏾♂️
That will help BayernLiga
Not necessarily, that depends on how the funds are distributed. But either way, the fact that clubs stuck behind Bayerns dominance are against these kind of plans, namely Dortmund, should tell you all you need to know. Beaides, fortunes can change quick. Juventus was on the same decade long dominance, and now Italy has 4 champions in 4 years. All the while the Premier League is more and more becoming a toy for the super rich with two or even one club capable of winning it.
@@DenDave_ yeah exaclty juve won 9 in a row now the last 4 are 4 different teams. Making bundesliga a money leauge will just ruin it rather just be patient
what helps bayernliga is other clubs selling the likes of Firmino KDB Son Haaland Jude Gundogen Havertz to EPL and Laliga. Bundesliga is a selling club like Dutch LEague. They are real leagues and not leagues that do cheating and sportwashing
@@kukunase1686 Better to sell them abroad than to Bayern though right?
No, most of the will go to Bayern and make them even stronger
We have enough investors already in German football.
Look at KFC Uerdingen one big investor bought the club to bring them back into first division he made stupid calls and now the club is back in the fourth division after there license got revoked.
Türkgücü München same thing.
1860 München.
The Investor didn’t pay the promised money license got revoked and they fall from second division to fourth division.
HSV paid stupidly high transfer fees with money from Investor Kühne and now the dino plays for years in second division.
Hertha also had and have investors to bring them back to there early 2000s glory and now there are last.
The concerns about investors are reasonable.
If the investor declares bankruptcy the league / club will have huge problems
Nice presentation ❤❤❤
Meanwhile Real Madrid and Barcelona want everyone to agree to the Superleague so they can make more money. At lest the Bundesliga are searching for a solution to the Prem's dominance
The problem isn’t the Prem’s dominance, the problem is UEFA doesn’t care about financial fair play.
Dortmund will rise again!! I predict them to win the Bundesliga this year and next year as well as win the DFB Pokal next year!! Come on dormund
Not a chance
Dortmund can't stop bottling every damn chance they get in any competition.
They got thrashed by Bayern at the Allianz.
Couldn't beat Stuttgart when Bayern dropped points.
Couldn't beat Bochum when Bayern dropped points.
Couldn't even beat Chelsea in the Champions league, there's no excuse for that. Even Sri Lanka's U-16 Women's team could beat Chelsea this season.
Bro what are you smoking?
Dortmund are too stupid to win Bundesliga
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
well a simple solution that would be very difficult to carry out is to even the playing field of the bundesliga. i’m saying this as a bayern fan since watching lewandowski’s 5 goals in 9 minutes LIVE, the league is boring. This season is the most interesting in a while because bayern got taken over and might not win the league for once.
It should always be the way
At this ratec they wouldnt be able to compete with EPL and state-ownership clubs in the future
That’s the point English fans never seem to get. In Germany football is not about the trophies or the international comparison. It‘s about supporting your club whether it‘s for the CL or trying to survive in the league. If the other teams in the CL are investor (or even autocrat) based clubs that play with a money cheat then we don‘t care whether we can compete with them or not. We won‘t sell our fan rights just for the sake of success.
If the price for competing is selling everything and paying hundreds of millions per year, most people can live without that...