Why does this happen? Because their football is healthy. If you don't have a good enough team, you will get relegated. It seems big clubs in most countries are not "allowed" to fail, their relegation is seen as a disaster and most of the time will be given a helping hand to stay up. Congratulations to Germany for still doing it right. Nobody deserves a "free pass".
Only partly true. It is also the case that there is an extremely lopsided payout structure in Germany. And everything is designed that the top clubs stay at the top. And that it is very hard for the lower clubs to rise in the ranks. Not that i have much pity with the fallen giants that all voted for these rules when they still were among the top clubs. e.g.: - A payout structure that gives Bayern 3 times as much money from the DFL as the lowest team. In England this is 1.3 - seeding in the cup, lower class clubs (amateur & 3rd league) always play higher clubs - relegation matches for promotion (which are usually won by the higher league club, especially in the 2.league vs 1.league relegation). So there are basically only two guaranteed promotions. A playoff system as in England would be better
As a big HSV fan this video was excellent. The part about the second Bundesliga being fun is no joke. HSV has a HIGHER attendance in the second division than we did in the first division. The fanbase is 100% behind the club qnd we're enjoying the season, our team and our games.
Yeah this is great, we hope you stay in second and keep enjoying yourselves while the proper clubs play in the real competition without your drama queen club for hopefully a bunch of seasons to come :)
@@MrSheduur Nothing soothes my soul more than football "fans" frothing at the mouth at the mere sight of our club ♥ have fun playing for scraps once again in the Bayernliga :)
Do the pronunciations not make you cringe though? Not to mention the outright misreading of 'Niedersachsen' as 'Niedersacker' at one point. Nobody who knows anything about Germany beyond football would get that wrong. I think the term 'englische Woche' was misunderstood as well - as DrZaius3141 hints at, does it just not mean a midweek round of league fixtures? Of course these videos are always (mostly) well researched and structured clearly, and this one was very complimentary about the German model. That said, some input from either native speakers or Brits who speak the target language wouldn't go amiss.
That’s not true. Only German fans who are in denial think that investors are the root of all evil while their club is run unprofessionally and only hires former players for managing positions.
@@davinnicodeliterally all good teams right now leverkusen bvb rb wolfsburg bayern (with the exception of union berlin) are really not run as german football fans want klubs to be run they are basically either owned by one big investor or are more of a stock company than a real club But i honestly like when people who run companies run clubs they know what they do when former footballers run a club they dont seem to have any clue and make things worse than anything else most often
Kühne is not a investor like in clubs like... Union Berlin Hertha Berlin Hoffenheim Hannover Etc. Ore company leaded club like.. Wolfsburg Leipzig Leverkusen Etc. This clubs don't have to pay back the money. He is a "fan" who gives credits ore get transfer rights for players and (I think) owner of 25% of HSV... His money is never for free Like the clubs I ment before ore clubs like Dortmund (eon) Bayern (Audi) Etc. Which are playing that they are running traditionell. (Dortmund is the worst example for acting traditional without help) Unfortunately is kühne not so good in football like in logistics.... He is 100% neo Kapitalist and that is our problem🤷🏻♂️ But he is far away of an traditional investor. He is a bad actor and think he is a "fan"
The mismanagement of some German clubs is really frustrating. Clubs like Hamburg and Schalke should be giants in the Bundesliga and even possibly a force in Europe. Seeing 1860 Munich struggling against Bayern’s B team sums up how polarised those two clubs have become.
@@harukrentz435They are historical giants (Hamburg and Schalke both have won a lot of trophies, especially Hamburg with one Champions League trophy from 1983 and Kevin Keegan as two times Ballon d‘Or winner in 1978 and 1979, when he played for us between 1977 and 1980). We in particular have a lot of history to be proud of. Schalke meanwhile are a bit less impressive than us regarding trophies and awards, to be fair, but still managed to win quite a lot of trophies.
Well, you can bail out mismanagement with fresh money for only so long in the Bundesliga. And guess what, Club management is being voted in by the fans who have sometimes a knack for voting in the biggest mouths who promise the most to them. I do detest Bayern's dominance to the point that I even root against them in European matches but I really respect their quality of club management over the past thirty years. They did earn their place!
how "should" they be that? No club should have the right to play anywhere. Its a good thing that the league system actually works and that there is some unpredictability on who relegates or promotes.
Some of the relegations seem to be self inflicted, Schalke for example went from playing Man City to relegation fodder in a few season. Hamburg’s relegation had been coming for a long time, with them finishing in the top half once in their last 7 Bundesliga seasons
@@TheKennyboy92it was not so much staying with the same players it was insanely bad economy which tbf they were very responsible themself. Many firings and not giving coaches and sport directors enough time aswell as hiring some absolute schoking ones. This have gotten better now although they too late
Sure, some of the relegations are self inflicted, and no club was free from major errors on their way down. But the sheer amount of big clubs getting relegated within such a short timeframe points to a big systemic issue in German football as well.
History and tradition, that's why I fell in love with German football. I'm from Mexico but I've never felt prouder to be a Schalke fan especially in these dark times. That passion at every game home and away is just something else. I'm aware it's not easy with the way modern football works but I hope to see all these giants in the top flight someday again. Massive respect to all of them.
The parity in the German Football once you get beyond Bayern and Dortmund (and Maybe Liepzig) is extremely competitive all the way down to 3. Bundesliga. Even teams like Frankfurt have had to spend a year or two in the .2 bundesliga and even Bayern spent a year in the .2 back during 1860's Reign. I do think raising the number of teams in both Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga tgo 20 would be a good idea because German football is so competitive.
Yes the number of former heavy hitters that are in or have been in the german lower leagues is astonishing, however i believe the Premier league would be having a similar tale if not for the 1992 rebranding. Afterall, clubs like Nottingham forest, wednesday, Leeds etc were all heavy hitters in the old english top division league.
As a Kaiserslautern Fan, you didn't fully explain the insanity of our Stadium. It's capacity is almost 50.000, in a city with only 100.000 inhabitants. And even more insane, when you look at a map and see that the city is in the middle of a forest and no big city is anywhere nearby
Last year, ~ 44.000 people went to the games in average..in 2nd division! I dont think your stadium is insane, people in kaiserslautern are (in a positive way) insane for football :D If they manage to move up again, you will need even more stadium :D
Yeah, but they are in the middle of the city, right next to a river, with a much funnier Cricket stadium right next to it, and County just on the other side of the Trent. ;) @@paulie-g
As a German I think you nailed it. 50+1 is the main reason that major clubs keep getting relegated. Other than in the PL the TV money is distributed very uneven between the champion and the teams promoted from 2nd league. Bayern earns a whopping 95 Mil. Euros while Darmstadt receives 31 Mil.
I think he missed the point - it's the money from the Champion's League that is killing teams. They reach the tournament, try to use the money to take the next step forward, end up with a serious cash shortfall if they fail to qualify for it in a season, and have to shed players which leads them to plummet. The PL money being larger diminishes the CL team cash advantage somewhat, but as that money grows, I worry that the PL will fracture like most leagues around Europe, leading to a small set of challengers, and a whole slew of also rans. It might have the biggest set of 'challengers', but football needs for mid-table clubs to be able to take that step up. It scares me that Leicester weren't able to translate their success in to a platform for growth, their story feels a lot like Schalke's etc.
@@samuelyee4017 Exactly. It's a very precarious source of income that teams feel forced to gamble with. They have to spend to have a squad big enough for extra matches, and they have to pay CL level wages, and those wages stay on the books even without the CL income. Tottenham are an interesting case, they appear to not include European TV money in their wage budget calculations which leads to some of their fans accusing the owners of not investing. Its really depressing that Spurs may end up being overtaken by Newcastle being cash-doped with blood money, as really they should be the model for mid-table clubs in how to grow.
In summary: Why Germany's biggest clubs suffer the hardest bar Bayern Munich? 1. No clubs in the Bundesliga can compete against Bayern Munich in terms of financial revenue and members. 2. Hamburg and Schalke were in decline after years of poor management from top to bottom. 3. 50+1 rule as positive impact on fan engagement and keeping the football tradition alive however it also brings a negative impact like limiting how much the club can spend on recruitment, club infrastructure and youth academies. 4. The talent pool of young prospects are running dry like Schalke and 1860 Munich and brought in dross players along the way. I've always admire the Bundesliga in terms of fans being 100% to their clubs regardless how well or badly run it is. Fan apathy is almost non existent in German football and they always keep traditions alive. Sure the Bundesliga is stale since 2013 but I always have major respect for the fan base that would rather stick with the club through thick and thin than to have a similar outcome at Ligue 1 with PSG being ran by Qatar and win multiple silverware. That's why I will keep watching the Bundesliga because of the fans supporting their clubs and like I said, I admire and respect that.
The problem with the "exceptions" (RB, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim) is that their financial losses will always be cleared by their rich owners. If the 50+1 clubs have a bad transfer period, admittedly in the case of Schalke and especially Hamburg it was too many to have just been bad luck, that money is gone. Leipzig, despite the great transfer business, has a higher debt than any other club in germany. But it doesn't matter, cause that debt is with Red Bull. In 2020 Red Bull just turned 100 Million of debt into capital for the club. You pointed out how the new stadiums were crippling some clubs, well Red Bull just bought the previously city-owned stadium in Leipzig, it is neither owned by the club nor the city, but owned by the company. Hoffenheim had big losses in the past as well after quite a few bad transfer periods in the inital years after their promotion to the Bundesliga, but Hopp just came in and cleared the debt. It's the same with Wolfsburg and Leverkusen. It's just not a level playing field at all, and it's why these "clubs" shouldn't exist, and why I'd rather have Bayern (who have also had their fair share of shady deals, the Kirch affair for example which may be an interesting topic for a video, though I don't know if there are good english resources on it) win 60 in a row than have them win one.
This and the TV Money which is mainly gathered by Big Clubs like Schalke Cologne or Stuttgart is getting splashed out to Clubs like Leverkusen Leipzig or Wolfsburg even if nobody is watching their Games
I think there will be more about the last 40 years of economic "reforms" that have turned out to cause a lot of problems, including those leading to Bayern's dominance. And it isn't surprising.
Hoffenheim doesn't have losses. They had 130 million transfer profits over the last 5 years. And Hopp already said that the club needs to support itself and that he will not finance any more losses.
The Bundesliga is very similar to the Brasileirao, were you always have one or various big teams getting relegated every few seasons. Only Flamengo, Sao Paulo and Santos have never been relegated (so far), but all of them have had near misses in recent years. The most egregious example was Flamengo in 2013, were they only avoided relegation because Portuguesa got deducted 4 points for fielding a suspended player.
I went to 3 Kaiserslautern games during their 19/20 season (against preussen munster, zwickau and sv meppen). It was heartbreaking seeing a club of that size with perhaps, the most football crazy city in germany (95k population with a 50k stadium). Everytime they scored, it was as joyful as a title win and when they conceded, it was as hurtful as a relegation. The following season (20/21), Kaiserslautern almost fell down to the 4th tier and saved themselves with what can only be described as gods power and will. Even though i'm a Mainz fan (2nd biggest rivals of kaiserslautern behind Waldhof Mannheim), i like them and really hope they get back to where they belong, which is 1st division football. Kaiserslautern IMO has the most heartbreaking story in german football alongside 1860 Munich
Actually, the "Englische Woche" (usually used in plural) refers to weeks with more than one game as something that is draining on a team's stamina (which is why the plural form is crucial - three weeks like that can set you back in your league campaign). This is used mostly in the context of European matches for teams that don't have the depth to rotate in those weeks.
@@razerow3391 the specific term §Englische Woche/English week" is used to describe weeks, when clubs have 1 game during the week and 1 on the weekend, and thus play 2 matches in the same week.
@@razerow3391 Alfie said it meant "playing on something other than Saturday" (as in "more media friendly"), when it actually means having additional matches apart from the one on Saturday/Sunday.
@@Joekuh the Olympia Stadium in Munich, it is owned by the city and hosts a lot of different sporting events and concerts. With 69250 seats, it is too big for 1860 in the 3rd league and Türkgücü in the 4th league to completely use. And Bayern have their own stadium.
Great Video. You are correct, the 2 Bundesliga doesn’t have the best player in Europe. However for value for money and match day experience, it truly is second to none.
Getting to your video late, but as an American in Germany, I've made it a mission to go to every Bundesliga stadium this season. So far 6/18, and not a single one disappointed. Each was an awesome experience, and I've gone back to several to see them again. And though I haven't been to their stadium yet, I keep getting games against Union Berlin, and their fans always show up and are awesome in any stadium!
The grafik shown at 4:48 is not Kaiserslautern, its Köln😙 Anyway thanks for the great video and greetings from Nürnberg❤️🖤 Btw in 2019/20 Nürnberg was basically relegated to the 3rd Divison but managed to survive in the relegation playoffs when they scored a goal in the 96th Minute
Leverkusen has been in the highest league since 1979, so I don't think it's fair to call them a new-ish club. They were even one of the 46 clubs that applied to play in the first ever Bundesliga season in 1963, so they were already around back then. They may be a company club but they really aren't comparable to Hoffenheim or Leipzig at all. They are one of the traditional Bundesliga clubs themselves. On the other hand Augsburg and Mainz really are new-ish Bundesliga clubs that have taken spots away from established ones, so those two would have deserved a mention. Also Greuther Fürth, Holstein Kiel, Karlsruhe, Düsseldorf and Hannover may technically be former German champions but even I as someone who has followed the Bundesliga for 20 years now actually had no idea about that until reading the description of this video, since most of those clubs won their titles over 100 years ago. Those clubs are not really perceived as former champions by people other than their own fans. I am happy to see this video though. You recently mentioned that the second tier in England is by far the strongest second tier in the world and it made me wonder if you are aware of the second tier in Germany, lol.
As a german myself (msv duisburg fan) i still really enjoyed this video. But I am kind of sad that duisburg was left out of the list for 3. Division clubs. We might have not really won any titles but we were second in the first bundesliga season and had some dfb pokal finals. Duisburg is one of the smaller cities and is surrounded by way bigger clubs wich makes it an even bigger achievement (in my opinion at least).
Fantastic video! You must’ve spent a very long time researching all of this! Please allow me to compliment you on your really fantastic German pronunciation! You’re obviously making a lot of effort and it is much appreciated! The comparison to the premier league especially the prices of season tickets, single game tickets, and when matches are shown is jaw-dropping! Thank you for the video!
As a Dortmund fan, thank you for this video, Alfie. I know not everyone agrees with the traditional “German model” of football, and fewer still seem to understand the appeal of our football culture at all. But this video has some GREAT explanations in it. Keep up the great work. Heja BVB 🖤💛
@@IHSpark7325 as I said in my op…”fewer still seem to understand the appeal of our football culture” … based on your comment, I’m assuming you fall into this category? 😏
BVB hat damit nix zu tun lol, euer Verein existiert nur als Jugendakademie für Bayern und England, euren CEO's ist Erfolg egal, die wollen nur Profit durch transfers machen wie Portugiesische Klubs. Traurig. HHMM ⚫️⚪️🔵
@@IHSpark7325Im not German, but Bayern only dominate two aspects of German football. Money and Titles. This video shows that in terms of fan engagement, atmosphere and selling out stadiums there are many teams that compete adequately. Nothing beats watching your team live, the rituals pre and post game, meeting people you know who sit nearby etc. In Germany this is still viable for fans of the biggest clubs but so difficult in England. Clubs are by definition member lead organisations where people of likeminded interests meet - that element of football has disappeared in England at the biggest teams and become a place for tourists and the rich
@@jameshall9654 But ultimately this is the reason why Bundesliga will gain the attention it really deserves. No different here in Australia with Australian rules football or the AFL, where we have fallen giants come in massive numbers still, but seeing my team (Essendon) play for the last 20 years I'd like a takeover, but we have salary caps unlike eurofoot and the bottom line comes down to competence. But this is the world game we're talking here.
19:00 German football hates Dietmar Hopp. But if we're all being honest, we do the same thing every time we play Football Manager with our home club. He's just doing it for real. And there's no argument about whether he's a real fan of the club or who else he should be attached to. Only that he was able to do it well. With the help of people like Ralf Rangnick and Julien Nagelsmann.
Fun fact about you mentioning Wehen Wiesbaden: Wehen isn't a part of Wiesbaden, it's actually belonging to Taunusstein, a city in another county. Back when they got their promotion when the third tier was established, they needed a bigger venue and Taunusstein fumbled around. Wiesbaden stepped in and basically snatched the club in a sort of "franchise takeover" you see in American football. Oh, and the club isn't as poor as it may seem, they've got quite a bit of backing from Brita water filters as their company HQ is in Taunusstein-Wehen and the company CEOs (used tio be the father, now it's the son) have been club presidents for decades.
Bayer 04 Leverkusen is in the Bundesliga for 44 consecutive years. In the eternal ranking of the Bundesliga, Leverkusen is on the 10th place with more Bundesliga matches than Kaiserslautern, Nürnberg, Hannover 96 and of course 1860 München. They were playing in the Oberliga West in 1962 against 1. FC Köln, Borussia Dortmund, FC Schalke 04 and Preußen Münster, but didn´t qualify for the newly founded Bundesliga. They are named after Bayer when it was founded by the workers of the company in 1904. Same year as FC Schalke 04 was founded and 15 years before the Hamburger SV was joined together by two clubs. So with the rise of more obscure and non-existent teams, were you talking about Leverkusen and the UEFA-Cup-Win of 1988 and DFB-Pokal-Win in 1993? There are also a couple of established but smaller Bundesliga-Clubs which earned their stability because of hard work, modesty and competent management. The mismanagement leading to the descent of HSV, Hertha, Kaiserslautern, FC Schalke, Nürnberg mostly because of becoming greedy after successful years and getting dependent on shady investors, or corporations like Gasprom, wasn´t the fault of clubs taking their place.
I was about to write I’d never expected Alfie to talk about Rot-Weiß Essen, but then again actually this has become nothing unusual and that’s what’s awesome about your channel. Always expect the unexpected.
I'm Glad you made this! My team Hamburg just keep failing Promotion every season against Smaller Clubs! Hamburg is a 100% best fanbase in German football! And Hamburg's first relegation in my case cause a curse on German's National Team! Knocked out of the Group stage in 2018 & 2022 World Cup, and Women's Germany Knocked out of the Group Stage in Women's World Cup 2023. This season, I hope Hamburg can finally be promoted! Keep it up!
First of all, I would like to thank you for the video, it is very well done. As a German, I would like to add a few things that I think are important and unfortunately came up a bit short in the video. Especially for Schalke and Hamburg, you can and must simply say that both clubs have repeatedly had small crises over the decades and have gone through financial problems, which has put them on shaky ground compared to other heavyweights of German soccer. But instead of first taking the success of the 2000s with them, they tried in the 2010s with expensive transfers and old stars and took high financial risks, which as you can see today have not paid off. Especially for these two clubs doubly tragic, since one has done very good youth work and had to sell the future stars "cheaply", whereby the teams were damaged in the long term. Quasi something that happened to many of the clubs from the video, in addition to the things mentioned such as stadium renovations which have devoured a lot of money, much of which was also co-financed by the countries (which was mentioned). The biggest problem for many of the clubs was simply the timing of the collapse, which was made more dramatic by high levels of funding for European Cup contenders and led to the "downfall" due to high expectations around the clubs. 50+1 is and was then the nail in the coffin for these clubs compared to other leagues like the PL where they would just get another money injection from their owners. What doesn't quite fit, however, is the naming of teams like Wolfsburg or Leverkusen, since they were already in the Bundesliga in the 90s and are thus only partly to blame for the clubs' missteps in the last decade. If the "big" clubs manage to work well and calmly again without creating too much ecstasy in the environment, they will sooner or later also rise because especially through the name of the clubs and often the larger catchment areas more sponsorship revenue and thus more money can be collected, which can lead to a sporting advantage, if it is used properly. Should the leagues be expanded to 20 clubs, it should only be a matter of time before we see some fallen giants back in the Bundesliga. And to be fair, and this was also mentioned in the video, the soccer culture in Germany works really well, as for many fans it is simply more than just about winning, which is why most clubs will continue to remain well known regardless of whether they play in the Bundesliga or in the 2 / 3.Liga. This is something I can only say for my "local" club which is Köln but these guys would rather watch a game in the Regionalliga (4th tier) than getting owned by an investor to tie in with the golden times of the 60s-80s. We the fans already realised that we can't compete with the PL in terms of money and thus should simply focus on our own unique product which indeed lies in the strong bound between fans and teams that are still being majorly owned by us the fans who in the end generate passion and atmosphere that no money can buy.
@@gulmen1919 I second that. I really hope Köln can manage to get a stable revenue surplus over the next years with drama-free seasons and no fear of relegations :)
Great comment, also about Wolfsburg or Leverkusen: VW and Bayer are the biggest employers in the area and have been for a long time, which makes their investement in the local football-teams more of a service to their employees (fans of those clubs), than a purely economical calculation as is the case with RB.
This is explained quite simply. While in many other leagues and countries it is mostly about celebrating the one who wins, in Germany it is mainly the sport / game that is celebrated, winning is a nice bonus, but the main thing for most fans is that their team is passionate and gives everything. They give everything for the club and sacrifice themselves, something that works better and more honestly when there is less money in circulation and when the clubs also have to rely on their own young players from the region. The connection to your club is simply much closer than in the Premier League or other leagues in Europe, the prices are more attractive for families and the stadiums are not full of event fans who actually has no idea who is playing against whom, but have heard of the team. With investors, profit comes first and the often still "down-to-earth" attitude is pushed into the background, ticket prices rise, youth work is neglected and identification disappears. Especially since the Bayern point is overrated anyway, the times in which you buy exclusively in the Bundesliga are over. Finally, I would like to give you the tip to deal with the German fan culture, which explains quite well why we are against investors, even the fans of Bayern.
18:00 you sort of glossed over that Hopp actually tried to buy into Kaiserslautern back when they were in real financial trouble, but the fans rejected the idea so harshly that it ended up not going through and he build up Hoffenheim instead
This really highlights why Bayern are so dominant. Too many of the other big clubs got killed by bad management (Schalke, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Hertha Berlin, etc) while the best run clubs are unfortunately much smaller clubs that really can't compete with Bayern financially (Freiburg, Augsburg, Union Berlin, etc). Meanwhile, for all the talk about how having clubs that didn't follow the 50+1 rule would at the very least make the title race competitive, for whatever reason the likes of Leipzig, Hoffenheim (at least until this year when their owner gave up control of the club), Leverkusen and Wolfsburg haven't really shown much title ambitions despite having the financial capabilities to do so. This really just leaves Dortmund as the only other well-run big club (Frankfurt I think is more upper-mid club) but they still seem haunted by their financial crisis in the early 2000s and sell their players far too often to build up a truly title-challenging team.
Frankfurt might have the chance to grow into a big club but this likely will take some more time. Our academy, for example, didn't promote any player into the Bundesliga team for years. Frankfurt has had a lucky hand with transfers over the past years though and they will have to continue to sell their best players out of contract if they can make a profit off them. Cashing in on transfers off very good players is only one part of the equation. The other part is that you would have to raise their salaries considerably if you wanted to extend their contracts which eventually would spoil the whole salary structure.
As a Hertha Fan, I wished you would of talked a bit about our downfall. We started crashing after getting money from an extremely shady investor. We spend rediculous sums of money and ran the club into the ground. We deserved to be relegated. I am happy that the investor left, even though we are left in ruins. Football is for the fans, not an investment vehicle or vantiy project. I will continue to support my club, despite everything I find wrong with it.
Yeah Hertha, the "Big City Club" became too ambitious. Stop chasing dreams and concentrate on good management and dreams might become true without chasing them.
Great video as always Alfie! You really seem to know to the context behind all of this very well. Kudos to you. If you could make more videos on German and Italian football, it would be appreciated.
I am a Nuremberg fan (unfortunately) and in my daily life an English teacher. Good summary! Now teams play in the Bundesliga that no one here is really interested in (Augsburg, Heidenheim, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim)
@@dinohermann1887 1. their atrocious style of play, 2. Augsburg. Sorry for No. 2 and Augsburg is a fine city but most people couldn't locate it on a map.
Very interesting! But you should look at Sweden and make a video why so many fairytale teams promotes to the top league there, Allsvenskan. In recent years Varnamo and Varberg have been labelled fairytale promotions, and the clear leaders of level 2, Superettan now are also labelled a fairytale team, Utsikten. In earlier years we've had teams like Ljungskile, Oddevold, Enkoping, Syrianska, Assyriska, AFC Eskilstuna, Dalkurd, Falkenberg and Mjallby, the latter having spent many seasons in the top flight. But when those fairytale teams fall, they fall hard, and so also some giants. I haven't seen a league in Europe with so many teams suffering back-to-back relegations from level 1 to 3 as in Sweden. The most extraordinary example is Brommapojkorna with this record: 2014: Level 1, 2015: 2, 2016: 3, 2017: 2, 2018: 1, 2019: 2, 2020: 3, 2021: 3, 2022: 2, 2023: 1. One of Swedens most traditional clubs, five times champions Helsingborg are now next-to-bottom at level 2 after relegating from the top flight last season. Giants IFK Gothenburg are now next-to-bottom in the Allsvenskan with fellow giants AIK in the play-off spot. It's quite different from my country Norway where teams relegated from the top flight usually bounce back at the first time of asking. So if you could dive into the madness of the Swedish league it would be highly appreciated!
erst mal warten bis der RWE hochkommt damit wir euch weiter vor uns her jagen können (*und neeeeeeeein ich überschätze den verein üüüüüüüberhaupt nicht :-P )
At 4:52 there is actually the first ever mistake I have ever found in your videos. The picture shows players of the 1. FC Köln while you are talking about the 1. FC Kaiserslautern. Impressive how you never make any mistakes and how that picture also still fit the narrative haha
There's also a picture showing Terence Boyd one of our heros of season 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 (the return form 3rd to 2nd league) while talking about the relegations 2006/2012/2018 down to 3rd league.
ESPN+ is televising Schalke vs Holstein Kiel at 9:30 Pacific Time today and Hannover vs Hamburg tomorrow at 11:30 Pacific Time in the USA for anyone who’s interested. The Budesliga and 2 Bundesliga matches can be pretty wild and I recommend watching.
As a part time schalke fan (have watched them since the late 00's when I could), I find it more enjoyable to see them playing 2. Bundesliga because there is good chance they will put on a good shift compared to watching them flounder in the Bundesliga like they have been recently.
Watch Hertha this season we finally got a really team most are from Berlin and go out for dinner together they sing the fans lyrics along cause they understand them its awesome to watch 😊
A lot of those clubs mentioned in the beginning deserve a whole video about their demise, i would recommend you to take a look at schalke because their story especially with everything going on at the club outside of the pitch is really interesting!
One point regarding "English weeks": There's no TV blackout in Germany, so there isn't the same pressure to move games from 3 p.m. on Saturdays. I don't know if it's universal, but round here (Ruhrgebiet), your match ticket includes public transport to and from the game, which might have cost you another €10-15 otherwise. It's cheaper than going to the cinema.
Great video , the German club I follow Dynamo Dresden , never seem to get it right , despite 30,000 passionate fans showing up every week . Shambolic mismanagement. Compare with Union Berlin , a club half the size of Dresden , who continue to enjoy great success in the Bundesliga
Stuttgart went from relegation strugglers to finishing second ahead of Bayern Munich but only behind the unbeaten Bayer Leverkusen just this last season
Tbh apart from Bayern's dominance, the Bundesliga is arguably the most unpredictable football league in Europe. I mean in recent years we saw big clubs like Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Schalke and Hertha Berlin had suffered relegation to the second tier, but on the other hand we saw smaller Bundesliga clubs like Augsburg and Mainz (both played the top-flight for more than 10 years) survived longer than we thought and proven to be a punch above their weight in the Bundesliga. And then we have Bochum, who had survived the drop twice since their return to the top tier despite suffering many beatdowns by other clubs (Though it should be noted that Bochum is known for their resiliency despite they are always classified as a small Bundesliga club). And finally we have Union Berlin, who is a prime example of being a small Bundesliga club who had achieved success to this day despite only playing in the Bundesliga for the first time in 2019...
As a Schalke fan our down spell is just tragic we are massive but like almost every big club in germany we've stalled and been mismanaged for ages, Youd think us Stuttgart Gladbach and hamburg would be in title races but no were all either in the lower teirs or just bouncing between Europa league and midtable in gladbachs case, Something needs to change as the leagues being deemed less than every year despite how much quality and unpredictability the league has (expect for the title race)
16:20 thats not true, we have a very casual audience too that would love to have more money in their clubs with reasonable owners. 50+1 made Bayern dominate for 12years now, our minds have changed a lot over that time!
Love the way germans do football, the biggest clubs in England like Arsenal and Liverpool in the 2nd tier is absolutely unthinkable but clubs of similar size in Germany being in the 2nd tier is the norm it’s mental but would be fantastic to see in england
Even with the likes of rugby League, rugby Union, Speedway, stockcar, and so forth, English football is muchbetter followed at the lower leagues (even though Deuschland is twice the population of England. Also, markworthy how many big city Germany football clubs get a smatch of topflight footy a and for longer unlike the bigger clubs in England. The English topflight is overflowning with smaller town football clubs. The French topflight is the opposite and crammed with as many big city clubs as possible.
Liverpool were a second division team 60 years ago, Man Utd less than 50 years ago, tottenham and Chelse 30 years ago. Man City, Forest, Leeds, Both Sheffield clubs have ben third division clubs in the last 20 ish years. 10 years ago Luton were non-league. English Football is the most vibrant Pyramid in World Football.
As a lifelong Hamburg fan, I can agree with the statement that the 2.Bundesliga is far more entertaining, exciting and tense than the Bundesliga where the battle at the bottom is the only exciting part these days...
Im a fanatical Bundesliga fan from the U.S. I find the traditions of the Bundesliga, 50+1, matchday experience, and especially the ultras, to be especially refreshing coming from an American perspective. American pro sports are the antithesis of soulless exploitive corporate american professional sports. The premier league is very very American in my opinion. I watch Bundesliga and Serie A mostly, when i watch EPL i feel like im hurting the sport tbh (plus the football is kind of boring). Ive seen live bayern, Stuttgart twice (including the title celebration for thr 2.bl title), Frankfurt, and Napoli. I wouldn't trade the matchday experience of especially Frankfurt and Stuttgart, to sit in a soulless bowl in Arsenal for like 5x the price
@@mikexstad1121 ultras deal drugs for their income and occasionally beat up and murder fans of rival clubs. Im sure thats not something you find refreshing...
Newcastle have done the same several times, Leeds have been down to league one, Sunderland have done that twice, Blackburn were down in the doldrums too. Wolves went down to the fourth division. Of course it must be said that Nuremburg have endured their trials........Sad for HSV though as a double former resident.
Good video overall but i’m surprised you didn’t mention Frankfurt at all. A new stadium was built bevor the WC and Eintracht Frankfurt barely avoided relegation a few years ago but then won the Pokal and the EL in the coming years. Also, with more than 100k members it’s now one of the biggest clubs in germany. And all that with good management and recruiting and not benefitting from a "sugar daddy".
I am an Eintracht fan since 1971 when my dad took me to the Waldstadion. Eintracht indeed has the potential to become a force but their development path is still fragile. I notice fans to become more and more impatient these days and I hope that management does not give in to dreams and hold tight to their strategy. It might take some years to get to the top though.
Why? 1. Talking about past successes rather than working towards winning new titles. 2. Complacency. Being part of the Bundesliga seems to be enough for some clubs. 3. Attitude. Finding and forming talents is constantly talked about. I never hear clubs like Frankfurt (or others) coming up with a plan to build the club up to be able to compete for the league in a few years. 4. Discipline. Firing coaches every 18 months sure doesn’t help.
If the Premier League followed the German model Manchester United would have won nearly every season just like Bayern. The German league is not a competition it's as much of a competition as WWE.
You mention the nouveau riche German clubs. Maybe we see that a little in the Premier League but probably more in the EFL, where nouveau riche upstarts like Forest Green, Fleetwood, Crawley replaced the more established traditional EFL clubs, relegating several of them to the National League
Perhaps we need a 'reverse takover' of one of these clubs by FC Heidenheim, which made a comeback win against Bayern Munich from 2-0 down and finished 8th in its first ever season in Bundesliga 1 this year. Heidenheim is a small town of 50,000 people.
Since 2011, Bayern have spent €286m on 30 players signed from other Bundesliga clubs, at an average of €9.5m per player. That includes 10 free signings, 4 youth signings and they also poached Kovac and Nagelsmann in that time. The highest fee was Upamecano for €42.5m. There were 3 strategic decimations of rivals. Dortmund in 13/14 and 14/15, Hoffenheim in 17/18 and Leipzig in 21/22. Neuer, Mandzukic, Dante, Gotze, Lewandowski, Rode, Kimmich, Hummels, Sandro Wagner, Sule, Rudy, Gnabry, Goretzka, Pavard, Upamecano, Sabitzer and Sommer went for a combined €264.5m, or €16.5m. Sales to Bayern from other Bundesliga clubs are so undervalued that it dopes Bayern's position in the league. If Bayern had to buy that abroad, or a Premier League club had to buy it, it would be €600m or more. That's where the Bundesliga fails. Not taxing Bayern for commercial revenue doping and they hoover up the best talent from rivals, who have no money to compete in the open market and lose their best talent so no incentive to grow their academies to be poached, so the national team suffers. If Bundesliga wants to save itself. 50% tax on commercial revenues over €150m, distributed equally to other Bundesliga clubs. 50% signing on fee for a Bundesliga domestic transfer on a free is taxed on signing club and paid to buying club. When a Bundesliga club signs from another Bundesliga club, 50% of the player's annual wage is taxed on the buying club and given to selling club. So for example Goretzka. Schalke maybe got €3m from Bayern in compensation.. With new rules: Bayern pay €112m to the Bundesliga in commercial revenue tax. Each Bundesliga club with commercial revenues under €150m gets an equal share, so €5-6m each. Say Goretzka's signing bonus was €10m, Bayern have to pay Schalke €5m. Say Goretzka is on €12m per year. Bayern have to pay Schalke €6m per year as a development fee over the length of his first contract. So instead of Bayern stealing Goretzka for free, Schalke get at least €35m for him even if his contract runs down. Bundesliga would then be truly fair and could point fingers at England. Now they can't.
Proof that they all serve Bayern as their lord and master. Happy to be Bayern's bitches but hate Leipzig and Hoffenheim for daring to spend money and try to compete. Weak.
To tax the commercial revenue and give it to others clubs is a very bad idea. Missmanaged clubs would definately calculate with that revenue and still spend too much money. Whats worse: they will spend money that might fall away if the big clubs like Bayern or Dortmund would adjust their strategy. That would result in even more debts and problems for some clubs. A 50% fee for free transfers in the domestivc league might sound nice at first, but this would only lead to a talent bleed to other leagues. The biggest problem are the player agents. The only way to prevent this might be a general rule for all players under 23 for example, where the buying club has to pay 50% of signings bonus and salary for the first 1-3 years (for german or foreign clubs). But UEFA and FIFA will not allow something like that.
I would argue the 50+1 rule saves a lot of clubs While there's some disadvantages there are also plenty of examples of clubs in other leagues having bad owners and destroying clubs, this format at least helps the team stay from liquidation or all out eliminated from existence I'd say more incompetence from their from offices is the cause of the down fall esp when some of these clubs have such massive support. If the 50+1 rule wasn't in how far woukd some of these big clubs fall
The fact he mentions about how English Football would be happened if big clubs played in the Championship makes us annoyed. With Premier League still reaching 3rd gameweek, clubs like Manchester United, Chelsea, and Everton are prone for relegation due to recent poor performances, with Chelsea being disappointed a lot, given their huge spendings. Meanwhile, untraditional clubs like Newcastle United, Brighton, and Aston Villa are having a good start. Even Tottenham Hotspurs, one of the big clubs that was classified as "serial bottlers", had a good form with new manager and didn't rely on Harry Kane.
@@stefan5730 Don't forget Nottingham Forest that won 2 European Cups in a row back in 1979-1980, Ipswich Town that won the Cup Winners Cup in 1981, and Everton that won the Cup Winners Cup in 1985.
My club will most likely be relegated to the Swedish third tier this autumn. We have not played in the top tier since 2009 and our last national championship is 38 years old. But as a member of the club I own it. Not some local rich dude. Not a hedgefund. Not a foreign conglomerate. I own it. We own it. I pity every Englishman because you have never had the opportunity to be anything more than very loyal customers.
As sad as it was to see Hamburg relegated for the first time, it was the most deserved relegation coming due to their inability to change the annual trend of surviving on the last day or through the playoffs before the unthinkable eventually became reality 🙈
I always say that 49+1 rule is ridiculous, it's stupid and unneeded. Bundesliga with an Abramovic or QATAR investment would be competitive, Bayern now is gonna win it's 11th straight Bundesliga. In todays Football you cannot survive without proper investment that's why Bayern are above the rest and that's why the Premier League is untouchable.
I'm sorry but all that talk about tradition from these clubs and their fans is just excusing their own incompetence. Hamburg has been heavily supported by the investor Kühne, Schalke by Tönnies, Hertha by Windhorst/Tenor even Bayern (Audi, VW, Adidas) and Dortmund (who is the only German club who's selling stocks) are heavily supported and involved with big corparate investors. It's hypocrisy that they claim they basically owned their lifetime spot in the top flight simply because they have the "tradition" and they won some trophies in the 50s-70s. If they didnt mess up so majorly they would still have their old status because they still have a higher budget than almost all the clubs in the second tier and also more than most in the first tier.
I partially agree with this. It's natural that things change over time, and I find it annoying when clubs like Freiburg, Mainz or Union are attacked for being newer to the Bundesliga. Honestly, if Hamburg, Schalke, Stuttgart and Werder had been replaced at the top by Union, Freiburg, Mainz and Augsburg, I don't think anyone could complain. But the truth of the matter is that these clubs were instead replaced by clubs which have massive financial backing and not much of an actual fanbase.
@@socialismandrevolution8299 but they got easily surpassed by the teams you mentioned too. They finished in front of teams like Wolfsburg & Hoffenheim for years too. They still have huge potentials when it comes to revenue and sponsoring but they waste money and get distracted by their own club politics. That’s no one else’s fault but their own imo.
@@saskoreacts Oh absolutely, there's definitely mismanagement at some of the old giants. I think a lot of fans of these clubs are actually aware of that, almost every Hamburg fan I've seen hates how their club is being run. It's just that while it was probably time for at least some of these clubs to fall from the top, the teams that (mostly) took their spot are the wrong ones. It's definitely harder to succeed when you're up against clubs for whom money isn't an issue, at a time when there's so much money in European competitions that they're becoming almost like a closed competition. As a fan of Werder Bremen, I've actually been quite happy to see Freiburg and Union succeed last year. It's nice to see that the financial power of the new top can still be overcome at times, if only for a while.
football is more than just trophies...well said man! we all want to win but theres so much more to the game. greed and trophy culture is killing the love for the game, feels like nothing matters than who won at the end and how much your club spends every window
Respect to German football. England also has plenty of glory hunters who support Premier League teams on the other side of the country to where they're from with no shame. Like Londoners who support Liverpool, Man City and United, and embarrassingly use terms like 'We' and 'Us' to describe these teams. To be fair lower league teams still have the old spirit like the Germans are upholding.
A similar video about the entire history of Romanian football in which only 5 teams that won the title of champion in which they played in a period when there was relegation, Ripensia Timișoara, Colțea Brașov and Venus București which were abolished by the communists and FCSB and CSA Steaua Bucharest and the fans of the two teams want the other team to be disbanded. Well, I don't think it could be a video because there wouldn't be enough interest, but at least I'm helping with the algorithm.
24:55 Not just in Germany, also in the Netherlands there is some outspoken disgust towards clubs with a wealthy owner. Vitesse for example is hated by fans of most other clubs for paying themselves to success. ADO Den Haag has had a Chinese owner and their fans wanted him out as soon as he became the owner. Especially if it is a foreign one without any interest in the club, but that might be because FC Utrecht isn't as successful even with an owner that suffers some form of Stockholm Syndrome. Besides the fact that FC Utrecht already was a very established club in the Eredivisie and has quite a fanbase to boost it's legitimacy. If FC Utrecht were to have similar story to FC Hoffenheim... then it would be rather interesting to watch. Here is a recent example: FC Utrecht and Vitesse both were/are at 18th spot this season. When Utrecht stood there, the common opinion was: "I hope they can survive... Utrecht should be part of the Eredivisie..." Now Vitesse is in it: "With such attitude they deserve to be relegated... I hope they relegate... etc." And I'm a Feyenoord fan btw, so this isn't any bias. Vitesse and Utrecht have both proven themselves to be tough to beat in recent years.
What I personally find the most surprising is not that German football fans have this extreme pro-tradition mentality, but that English fans apparently DON'T have the same mentality. This is specially puzzling because English people in general seem to be among the ones in Europe that care the most about tradition in other areas and who are always very protective of it. So why is it that when it comes to footbal, which was literally invented in England, they seem to be so comfortable with the concept of their almost 150 year old Clubs full of tradition being bought by foreign "Owners" (just the use of this word already sounds offensive), who literally play FM with those clubs and don't really care about them?
@@HkFinn83 Sorry, I am not a natural English speaker. What I am meant to say is that people in England have the reputation of giving a lot of value to tradition and therefore being protective of it. Just to give you an example. Every year Jürgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola complain in the holiday season about the games that happen around that time, because they believe it would be resonable for the players to have some rest, like it happens in most other countries. But the response they then get in the media is to stop whining about it, because it's tradition to play on Boxing Day, etc. So my point is that I would expect English football fans to have the same protective mentality when it comes being against their clubs being bought by billionaires for vanity reaons, the same way as German fans do. But for some reason this doesn't appear to apply at all for English fans. So it's just fascinating how love of tradition manifests itself in different ways from country to country.
@@speedy3702 how is being owned by a rich Arab or Russian any less ‘traditional’ than being owned by an old British industrialist or American venture capitalist? It makes no difference as a fan. The only damage the money has done to the Premier League that I can see is to make it much higher quality and more entertaining. People just like complaining about everything, especially when they get to a certain age. The reality is football is still generally a very cheap and accessible sport to go and watch in England. I’m more of a cricket fan than football, and a ticket to a Test match is five times more expensive than to a top premier league game. Look at tennis, F1, any other major sport is stupidly expensive. Imo complaining about the new owners is just a misguided nostalgia. And if they make the game uncompetitive with their spending, well that’s on the FA, UEFA, or the government. If their regulations aren’t fit for purpose it’s their fault.
@@HkFinn83 Well, the point here is not about the "Owners" being Arab, Russian, British or Americans. But it's about the club not having "Owners" at all and instead being owned by the members who then elect the leadership democratically.
@@speedy3702 that’s never been a thing in England, even before the premier league. So there’s no difference now other than the nationality of the owners
I think it's a cultural thing too, the same happens in Spain with Barca and real. When I was a kid (I was a footy fanatic and watched all the top leagues) I wasn't asked what team do you support; it was are you Barca or Madrid. Not enough support goes to your local team. Even on a 1 hour la liga show 20 min is dedicated to 18 teams and 40 min to Barca/real. Always hated that, maybe the same happens in Germany idk
Same in Scottish football. I am a Heart of Midlothian fan but the best my team can do is finish third. Them, Hibernian and Aberdeen cannot compete against Celtic and Rangers due to financial reasons. Celtic and Rangers have dominated with Aberdeen the last league winners outside the old firm in 1985. And obviously Celtic and Rangers get all the publicity stunts just because they are bigger.
Before I watch the video, most of these clubs are highly mismanaged, paying ridiculous transfer sums and salaries for mostly subpar players who don't care about the club other than the money they get. Sooner or later, they fall out of the European competitions which means they can't pay for their overpriced players but they keep spending like they can. So they go into major debt which doesn't fair well when you don't go to Europe. And not to mention the power struggles at the top, people who only care about "power" and add on to the chaos. Most recently we had Hertha BSC relegated because of this, they are in terrible form even in the second Bundesliga right now and don't look like a club that will be in the promotion battle this year which will probably mean that the club will meet a slow and steady decline to the lower tiers.
Beer in the stadium? In Romania, when there's a match, no stores/bars/pubs/etc are allowed to sell any alcoholic beverages for a few hours, in a 1 (or is it 2?) km range of the stadium
Hamburg were a REALLY good team for a lot of the 00’s and early 2010’s, same goes for Bremen and Schalke, if you followed European football at the time you’d remember how tough a matchup getting either of those 3 teams in an European competition was.
kind of crazy but I bumped into Nigel De Jong once in a store in Qatar. I told him I saw him play for Hamburg against Vasco Da Gama in a tournament in Dubai back in 2008 I think it was...I remember raiding Hamburg in football manager, they had De Jong, Kompany, a couple of other really good players. Marting Jol was manager I think.... he hated my on football manager 😆
🧢 Schalke, Hamburg and Bremen were generally the best teams behind Bayern in the mid to late 2000s Teams like Wolfsburg or Stuttgart had occasional breakout seasons, particularly when they won the league but if you ask someone about the 4 best German teams in the 2000s as a whole, it's likely gonna be those 4, maybe with some slight variations
Hi Alfie, I love the type of videos from you. Would you do a best English 1st division best managers prior to the formation of the premier league please?
I suppose when you have one club so much wealthier than the others that club being of course Bayern Munich all the rest are playing for also ran status and with it comes the cost of relegation so its probably not suprising that this happens quite regularly in the Bundesliga
the same thing would have happend to PL it it wasnt for Roman deciding to burn lots of money on a throphys and united screwing up. as long as winning results in more money and more money results in winning a one team league is kinda inevitable. the PL is basically owner lottery some teams lucked out city some got shafed united. the biggest reason city are best team in world atm is that they were shit enough at the right time the same thing could have happend to tottenham or everton but they werent cheap enough at the time.
Another reason for the dominance of Bayern is that it is very hard for the smaller clubs to handle the fixture congestion once they become successful. The need to go from somewhere around 38 - 40 league and cup matches to play in 44+ matches with european football is a lot to handle. This forces clubs to significantly increase squad depth, with no guarantee at all that there will be international football in the next season to finance the increased squad. Therefore many clubs have only passing success. Some, like Schalke, risked a lot in this step and were punished. Others, like Frankfurt, Gladbach or Hoffenheim, were not able to be successful in both the European Cups and the Bundesliga. Sometimes not even in one competition. Furthermore the money that is given to clubs by the league, the DFL, is significantly more lopsided than in the Premier League. Last season, Bayern got almost 3x times as much from the DFL compared to the smallest club. In the Premier League the factor is 1.3.
Portuguese clubs have no money to increase squad depth so they simply get relegated in the season they play European football or get pretty close to it
I'd say you see something like this happen with the Europa League and PL teams. If one of the bigger clubs misses out on the CL and gets Europa League, you'll often see their matchday squads for the EL with shirt numbers that look more like a bingo card. A smaller club like West Ham will play something like a proper team, but end up struggling below mid-table because of the additional fatigue and possibly injuries to their already thinner squad. I'm wondering if we should try to adopt a system where European club football is closer to the US post-season play off model. We have the top leagues finish by say March/April, and then a short knockout tournament to decide to champions. The way UEFA is trying to push more and more European games in to the seasons feels to me like it is going to lead to a breaking point sooner rather than later. Maybe that's the plan, to create a crisis that makes a super league a necessity?...
1860's double relegation caused their second team to get relegated because they would have otherwise been in the same league. The second team finished second in the league that season!
Can someone tell me why there are only 18 teams in the Bundesliga? Wouldn’t an expansion to 20 teams like the other top 5 leagues help with this problem? Or am I missing something.
Why does this happen? Because their football is healthy. If you don't have a good enough team, you will get relegated. It seems big clubs in most countries are not "allowed" to fail, their relegation is seen as a disaster and most of the time will be given a helping hand to stay up.
Congratulations to Germany for still doing it right. Nobody deserves a "free pass".
true dat
Yeah Spain is like that, Barcelona can be a billion euros in debt and still nothing happens.
And now their meritocracy has left them with a dictator so “healthy”
But kyrko relegation from the premier league for example is one of the WORST things that can happen to a club☝
Only partly true. It is also the case that there is an extremely lopsided payout structure in Germany. And everything is designed that the top clubs stay at the top. And that it is very hard for the lower clubs to rise in the ranks. Not that i have much pity with the fallen giants that all voted for these rules when they still were among the top clubs.
e.g.:
- A payout structure that gives Bayern 3 times as much money from the DFL as the lowest team. In England this is 1.3
- seeding in the cup, lower class clubs (amateur & 3rd league) always play higher clubs
- relegation matches for promotion (which are usually won by the higher league club, especially in the 2.league vs 1.league relegation). So there are basically only two guaranteed promotions. A playoff system as in England would be better
As a big HSV fan this video was excellent.
The part about the second Bundesliga being fun is no joke. HSV has a HIGHER attendance in the second division than we did in the first division. The fanbase is 100% behind the club qnd we're enjoying the season, our team and our games.
Yeah this is great, we hope you stay in second and keep enjoying yourselves while the proper clubs play in the real competition without your drama queen club for hopefully a bunch of seasons to come :)
@@MrSheduur Nothing soothes my soul more than football "fans" frothing at the mouth at the mere sight of our club ♥
have fun playing for scraps once again in the Bayernliga :)
@@MrSheduur are you confusing Hamburg with herha?
@@Kelxo-o7 Delusion is strong with a lot of German football fans
HSV fans are idiots then -- I guess some dreamland about people power is more important than success, in a highly competitive sport.
As a german im really thankful that you're bringing that topic to an international audience. Keep up the great work!
Do the pronunciations not make you cringe though? Not to mention the outright misreading of 'Niedersachsen' as 'Niedersacker' at one point. Nobody who knows anything about Germany beyond football would get that wrong. I think the term 'englische Woche' was misunderstood as well - as DrZaius3141 hints at, does it just not mean a midweek round of league fixtures?
Of course these videos are always (mostly) well researched and structured clearly, and this one was very complimentary about the German model. That said, some input from either native speakers or Brits who speak the target language wouldn't go amiss.
Yea he could have taken the time to check the pronunciation. But still great that he goes out of himself to make a video on this topic.@@oliverraven
Please explain to me why Germans would rather see Bayern Munich win the league for 100 years in a row than welcome investment?
RIF.
@@oliverraven Nitpicking at it's finest.
You can crawl back from relegation, but you cannot crawl back from selling your club.
HSV did both, getting relegated and selliing the club to a foreign investor by taking a loan that they could never pay back.
That’s not true. Only German fans who are in denial think that investors are the root of all evil while their club is run unprofessionally and only hires former players for managing positions.
@@davinnicodeliterally all good teams right now leverkusen bvb rb wolfsburg bayern (with the exception of union berlin) are really not run as german football fans want klubs to be run they are basically either owned by one big investor or are more of a stock company than a real club
But i honestly like when people who run companies run clubs they know what they do when former footballers run a club they dont seem to have any clue and make things worse than anything else most often
Kühne is not a investor like in clubs like...
Union Berlin
Hertha Berlin
Hoffenheim
Hannover
Etc.
Ore company leaded club like..
Wolfsburg
Leipzig
Leverkusen
Etc.
This clubs don't have to pay back the money.
He is a "fan" who gives credits ore get transfer rights for players and (I think) owner of 25% of HSV...
His money is never for free
Like the clubs I ment before ore clubs like
Dortmund (eon)
Bayern (Audi)
Etc.
Which are playing that they are running traditionell.
(Dortmund is the worst example for acting traditional without help)
Unfortunately is kühne not so good in football like in logistics....
He is 100% neo Kapitalist and that is our problem🤷🏻♂️
But he is far away of an traditional investor.
He is a bad actor and think he is a "fan"
@@geams was für ein quatsch. Lies meinen ersten text und informiere dich etwas fundierter....
The mismanagement of some German clubs is really frustrating. Clubs like Hamburg and Schalke should be giants in the Bundesliga and even possibly a force in Europe. Seeing 1860 Munich struggling against Bayern’s B team sums up how polarised those two clubs have become.
How could they be giants of bundesliga if their star players kept getting signed by Bayern? 😂😂😂😂😂
@@harukrentz435They are historical giants (Hamburg and Schalke both have won a lot of trophies, especially Hamburg with one Champions League trophy from 1983 and Kevin Keegan as two times Ballon d‘Or winner in 1978 and 1979, when he played for us between 1977 and 1980). We in particular have a lot of history to be proud of. Schalke meanwhile are a bit less impressive than us regarding trophies and awards, to be fair, but still managed to win quite a lot of trophies.
@@harukrentz435 Open up a history book kiddo, this isn't as new or common as you think it is.
Well, you can bail out mismanagement with fresh money for only so long in the Bundesliga. And guess what, Club management is being voted in by the fans who have sometimes a knack for voting in the biggest mouths who promise the most to them. I do detest Bayern's dominance to the point that I even root against them in European matches but I really respect their quality of club management over the past thirty years. They did earn their place!
how "should" they be that? No club should have the right to play anywhere. Its a good thing that the league system actually works and that there is some unpredictability on who relegates or promotes.
Some of the relegations seem to be self inflicted, Schalke for example went from playing Man City to relegation fodder in a few season. Hamburg’s relegation had been coming for a long time, with them finishing in the top half once in their last 7 Bundesliga seasons
Yeah Hamburg had relegation coming for a longggg time. I think they stayed with players for too long though.
most of this club can't adapt with modern standards
@@TheKennyboy92it was not so much staying with the same players it was insanely bad economy which tbf they were very responsible themself. Many firings and not giving coaches and sport directors enough time aswell as hiring some absolute schoking ones. This have gotten better now although they too late
Yeah very true there were knee jerk reactions with firings@@jttro2658
Sure, some of the relegations are self inflicted, and no club was free from major errors on their way down. But the sheer amount of big clubs getting relegated within such a short timeframe points to a big systemic issue in German football as well.
History and tradition, that's why I fell in love with German football. I'm from Mexico but I've never felt prouder to be a Schalke fan especially in these dark times. That passion at every game home and away is just something else. I'm aware it's not easy with the way modern football works but I hope to see all these giants in the top flight someday again. Massive respect to all of them.
Can't wait for you guys to play with us again good luck and hope we meet again 🟡⚫☺️
The parity in the German Football once you get beyond Bayern and Dortmund (and Maybe Liepzig) is extremely competitive all the way down to 3. Bundesliga. Even teams like Frankfurt have had to spend a year or two in the .2 bundesliga and even Bayern spent a year in the .2 back during 1860's Reign. I do think raising the number of teams in both Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga tgo 20 would be a good idea because German football is so competitive.
It's competitive until it comes to actually winning the Bundesliga title lmao.
@@SOak145 yeah but that's a different problem
@@SOak145 ManC had won the last 6 PL if Liverpool had not one outstanding season and ManC had a blip..... so stfu
@@kosmodome47 That particular issue literally falls under the rubric or category of 'German football is competitive'. What are you talking about.
It was stated right at the outset that FCB, BVB and RB are on a different plane of existence, so keep your socks on. @@SOak145
Yes the number of former heavy hitters that are in or have been in the german lower leagues is astonishing, however i believe the Premier league would be having a similar tale if not for the 1992 rebranding. Afterall, clubs like Nottingham forest, wednesday, Leeds etc were all heavy hitters in the old english top division league.
or West Brom and Huddersfield
@@WyldStallion-bs9oo
That would be a terrible decision. Especially when there are already not enough PL Places to go around.
@@WyldStallion-bs9oo No. Terrible idea. It hurts Germany and will now hurt France too to have 18 as opposed to 20 teams.
@@MrSmith1984 Well said.
As a Kaiserslautern Fan, you didn't fully explain the insanity of our Stadium. It's capacity is almost 50.000, in a city with only 100.000 inhabitants. And even more insane, when you look at a map and see that the city is in the middle of a forest and no big city is anywhere nearby
Forest is a cheatcode, Union have demonstrated that. Apparently walking through one on the way to the stadium gets you CL football.
@@paulie-g we had CL football in the late 90s
Last year, ~ 44.000 people went to the games in average..in 2nd division!
I dont think your stadium is insane, people in kaiserslautern are (in a positive way) insane for football :D If they manage to move up again, you will need even more stadium :D
@@leometz7287 My point exactly. Forest = win. Except for Nottingham Forrest, they're awful.
Yeah, but they are in the middle of the city, right next to a river, with a much funnier Cricket stadium right next to it, and County just on the other side of the Trent. ;) @@paulie-g
As a German I think you nailed it. 50+1 is the main reason that major clubs keep getting relegated. Other than in the PL the TV money is distributed very uneven between the champion and the teams promoted from 2nd league. Bayern earns a whopping 95 Mil. Euros while Darmstadt receives 31 Mil.
I think he missed the point - it's the money from the Champion's League that is killing teams. They reach the tournament, try to use the money to take the next step forward, end up with a serious cash shortfall if they fail to qualify for it in a season, and have to shed players which leads them to plummet. The PL money being larger diminishes the CL team cash advantage somewhat, but as that money grows, I worry that the PL will fracture like most leagues around Europe, leading to a small set of challengers, and a whole slew of also rans. It might have the biggest set of 'challengers', but football needs for mid-table clubs to be able to take that step up. It scares me that Leicester weren't able to translate their success in to a platform for growth, their story feels a lot like Schalke's etc.
@@neilbiggs1353 these teams fell into the financial trapdoor after they failed to qualify UCL when they spent a lot to recruit players
@@samuelyee4017 Exactly. It's a very precarious source of income that teams feel forced to gamble with. They have to spend to have a squad big enough for extra matches, and they have to pay CL level wages, and those wages stay on the books even without the CL income. Tottenham are an interesting case, they appear to not include European TV money in their wage budget calculations which leads to some of their fans accusing the owners of not investing. Its really depressing that Spurs may end up being overtaken by Newcastle being cash-doped with blood money, as really they should be the model for mid-table clubs in how to grow.
In summary: Why Germany's biggest clubs suffer the hardest bar Bayern Munich?
1. No clubs in the Bundesliga can compete against Bayern Munich in terms of financial revenue and members.
2. Hamburg and Schalke were in decline after years of poor management from top to bottom.
3. 50+1 rule as positive impact on fan engagement and keeping the football tradition alive however it also brings a negative impact like limiting how much the club can spend on recruitment, club infrastructure and youth academies.
4. The talent pool of young prospects are running dry like Schalke and 1860 Munich and brought in dross players along the way.
I've always admire the Bundesliga in terms of fans being 100% to their clubs regardless how well or badly run it is. Fan apathy is almost non existent in German football and they always keep traditions alive. Sure the Bundesliga is stale since 2013 but I always have major respect for the fan base that would rather stick with the club through thick and thin than to have a similar outcome at Ligue 1 with PSG being ran by Qatar and win multiple silverware. That's why I will keep watching the Bundesliga because of the fans supporting their clubs and like I said, I admire and respect that.
The problem with the "exceptions" (RB, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim) is that their financial losses will always be cleared by their rich owners. If the 50+1 clubs have a bad transfer period, admittedly in the case of Schalke and especially Hamburg it was too many to have just been bad luck, that money is gone. Leipzig, despite the great transfer business, has a higher debt than any other club in germany. But it doesn't matter, cause that debt is with Red Bull. In 2020 Red Bull just turned 100 Million of debt into capital for the club. You pointed out how the new stadiums were crippling some clubs, well Red Bull just bought the previously city-owned stadium in Leipzig, it is neither owned by the club nor the city, but owned by the company. Hoffenheim had big losses in the past as well after quite a few bad transfer periods in the inital years after their promotion to the Bundesliga, but Hopp just came in and cleared the debt. It's the same with Wolfsburg and Leverkusen. It's just not a level playing field at all, and it's why these "clubs" shouldn't exist, and why I'd rather have Bayern (who have also had their fair share of shady deals, the Kirch affair for example which may be an interesting topic for a video, though I don't know if there are good english resources on it) win 60 in a row than have them win one.
no wonder bundesliga so backward, they have people like you
+1
This and the TV Money which is mainly gathered by Big Clubs like Schalke Cologne or Stuttgart is getting splashed out to Clubs like Leverkusen Leipzig or Wolfsburg even if nobody is watching their Games
I think there will be more about the last 40 years of economic "reforms" that have turned out to cause a lot of problems, including those leading to Bayern's dominance. And it isn't surprising.
Hoffenheim doesn't have losses. They had 130 million transfer profits over the last 5 years.
And Hopp already said that the club needs to support itself and that he will not finance any more losses.
The Bundesliga is very similar to the Brasileirao, were you always have one or various big teams getting relegated every few seasons. Only Flamengo, Sao Paulo and Santos have never been relegated (so far), but all of them have had near misses in recent years. The most egregious example was Flamengo in 2013, were they only avoided relegation because Portuguesa got deducted 4 points for fielding a suspended player.
Except the Brazilian League is much more competitive.
that would be fluminense i think, but this club has some history with relegation
And I believe Santos is very close to a risk to getting relegated to Brasileirão série B this season
@@gustavoschulzdalledone8191Flamengo were about to be relegated as well for fielding a irregular player as well
Santos have been relegated
I went to 3 Kaiserslautern games during their 19/20 season (against preussen munster, zwickau and sv meppen). It was heartbreaking seeing a club of that size with perhaps, the most football crazy city in germany (95k population with a 50k stadium). Everytime they scored, it was as joyful as a title win and when they conceded, it was as hurtful as a relegation. The following season (20/21), Kaiserslautern almost fell down to the 4th tier and saved themselves with what can only be described as gods power and will. Even though i'm a Mainz fan (2nd biggest rivals of kaiserslautern behind Waldhof Mannheim), i like them and really hope they get back to where they belong, which is 1st division football. Kaiserslautern IMO has the most heartbreaking story in german football alongside 1860 Munich
Actually, the "Englische Woche" (usually used in plural) refers to weeks with more than one game as something that is draining on a team's stamina (which is why the plural form is crucial - three weeks like that can set you back in your league campaign). This is used mostly in the context of European matches for teams that don't have the depth to rotate in those weeks.
What? It mean ”English week” and refers to how many games English clubs tend to play in a week.
@@razerow3391He is right though. Of course that is a reference to English football but we use the term "Englische Woche" to describe what the op said
@@razerow3391 the specific term §Englische Woche/English week" is used to describe weeks, when clubs have 1 game during the week and 1 on the weekend, and thus play 2 matches in the same week.
@@razerow3391 Alfie said it meant "playing on something other than Saturday" (as in "more media friendly"), when it actually means having additional matches apart from the one on Saturday/Sunday.
Simple solution: Get over it. Mix teams. You have (or should have) 23 players available, for Christ's sake.
Funfact 5 of the 10 biggest German football stadiums are in the 2nd league, 4 in the 1st league and 1 isnt used for football currently.
Now im curious. What's the 5th stadium used for, if not football?
@@Joekuh the Olympia Stadium in Munich, it is owned by the city and hosts a lot of different sporting events and concerts. With 69250 seats, it is too big for 1860 in the 3rd league and Türkgücü in the 4th league to completely use. And Bayern have their own stadium.
Well, when I was in Munich last year, I attended a football match in the Olympic stadium of Münich. Turkgucu Munchen is playing there.
These kinds of deep dives are my favourite videos of yours Alfie. Well done.
Great Video. You are correct, the 2 Bundesliga doesn’t have the best player in Europe. However for value for money and match day experience, it truly is second to none.
Getting to your video late, but as an American in Germany, I've made it a mission to go to every Bundesliga stadium this season. So far 6/18, and not a single one disappointed. Each was an awesome experience, and I've gone back to several to see them again. And though I haven't been to their stadium yet, I keep getting games against Union Berlin, and their fans always show up and are awesome in any stadium!
The grafik shown at 4:48 is not Kaiserslautern, its Köln😙
Anyway thanks for the great video and greetings from Nürnberg❤️🖤
Btw in 2019/20 Nürnberg was basically relegated to the 3rd Divison but managed to survive in the relegation playoffs when they scored a goal in the 96th Minute
Als ich noch a ganz kleiner Bub war...
isn't there a Kaiserslautern logo in the background though?
I think you mean 4:48. It's indeed Koln.
Honest mistake for a foreign football fan, both are red and white and the abbreviation is FCK
@@Supreme-vy3gu ...da nahm mich mein Vater mit zu Club...
Unexpectedly disheartened at not having seen a picture of Gael pop up as you said 'cliche' at 16:59. Cheers for yet another great watch Alfie
Nice one! And a pretty good depiction of the mindset of german football supporters. There is indeed more to football than winning trophies!
I seem to recall that German fans protested and boycotted matches that had been scheduled for a Monday night for TV.
Leverkusen has been in the highest league since 1979, so I don't think it's fair to call them a new-ish club. They were even one of the 46 clubs that applied to play in the first ever Bundesliga season in 1963, so they were already around back then. They may be a company club but they really aren't comparable to Hoffenheim or Leipzig at all. They are one of the traditional Bundesliga clubs themselves.
On the other hand Augsburg and Mainz really are new-ish Bundesliga clubs that have taken spots away from established ones, so those two would have deserved a mention.
Also Greuther Fürth, Holstein Kiel, Karlsruhe, Düsseldorf and Hannover may technically be former German champions but even I as someone who has followed the Bundesliga for 20 years now actually had no idea about that until reading the description of this video, since most of those clubs won their titles over 100 years ago. Those clubs are not really perceived as former champions by people other than their own fans.
I am happy to see this video though. You recently mentioned that the second tier in England is by far the strongest second tier in the world and it made me wonder if you are aware of the second tier in Germany, lol.
Fs Alfie. I was just going to bed after a night shift but looks like I’m up for another half an hour!
The only YT channel worth staying up for 💪
As a german myself (msv duisburg fan) i still really enjoyed this video. But I am kind of sad that duisburg was left out of the list for 3. Division clubs. We might have not really won any titles but we were second in the first bundesliga season and had some dfb pokal finals. Duisburg is one of the smaller cities and is surrounded by way bigger clubs wich makes it an even bigger achievement (in my opinion at least).
M S V ! 🦓
I'd welcome back MSV to the first division any time.
There just isn't any channel like this on UA-cam, let alone an english one. Just love to watch and hope you keep them coming!!! 👏
Fantastic video! You must’ve spent a very long time researching all of this!
Please allow me to compliment you on your really fantastic German pronunciation! You’re obviously making a lot of effort and it is much appreciated!
The comparison to the premier league especially the prices of season tickets, single game tickets, and when matches are shown is jaw-dropping!
Thank you for the video!
As a Dortmund fan, thank you for this video, Alfie. I know not everyone agrees with the traditional “German model” of football, and fewer still seem to understand the appeal of our football culture at all. But this video has some GREAT explanations in it. Keep up the great work. Heja BVB 🖤💛
If one team dominates every aspect in the country then that's a massive issue, especially a country like Germany.
@@IHSpark7325 as I said in my op…”fewer still seem to understand the appeal of our football culture” … based on your comment, I’m assuming you fall into this category? 😏
BVB hat damit nix zu tun lol, euer Verein existiert nur als Jugendakademie für Bayern und England, euren CEO's ist Erfolg egal, die wollen nur Profit durch transfers machen wie Portugiesische Klubs. Traurig.
HHMM ⚫️⚪️🔵
@@IHSpark7325Im not German, but Bayern only dominate two aspects of German football. Money and Titles. This video shows that in terms of fan engagement, atmosphere and selling out stadiums there are many teams that compete adequately.
Nothing beats watching your team live, the rituals pre and post game, meeting people you know who sit nearby etc. In Germany this is still viable for fans of the biggest clubs but so difficult in England. Clubs are by definition member lead organisations where people of likeminded interests meet - that element of football has disappeared in England at the biggest teams and become a place for tourists and the rich
@@jameshall9654 But ultimately this is the reason why Bundesliga will gain the attention it really deserves.
No different here in Australia with Australian rules football or the AFL, where we have fallen giants come in massive numbers still, but seeing my team (Essendon) play for the last 20 years I'd like a takeover, but we have salary caps unlike eurofoot and the bottom line comes down to competence.
But this is the world game we're talking here.
19:00 German football hates Dietmar Hopp. But if we're all being honest, we do the same thing every time we play Football Manager with our home club.
He's just doing it for real. And there's no argument about whether he's a real fan of the club or who else he should be attached to. Only that he was able to do it well. With the help of people like Ralf Rangnick and Julien Nagelsmann.
Fun fact about you mentioning Wehen Wiesbaden: Wehen isn't a part of Wiesbaden, it's actually belonging to Taunusstein, a city in another county.
Back when they got their promotion when the third tier was established, they needed a bigger venue and Taunusstein fumbled around. Wiesbaden stepped in and basically snatched the club in a sort of "franchise takeover" you see in American football.
Oh, and the club isn't as poor as it may seem, they've got quite a bit of backing from Brita water filters as their company HQ is in Taunusstein-Wehen and the company CEOs (used tio be the father, now it's the son) have been club presidents for decades.
Bayer 04 Leverkusen is in the Bundesliga for 44 consecutive years.
In the eternal ranking of the Bundesliga, Leverkusen is on the 10th place with more Bundesliga matches than Kaiserslautern, Nürnberg, Hannover 96 and of course 1860 München.
They were playing in the Oberliga West in 1962 against 1. FC Köln, Borussia Dortmund, FC Schalke 04 and Preußen Münster, but didn´t qualify for the newly founded Bundesliga.
They are named after Bayer when it was founded by the workers of the company in 1904. Same year as FC Schalke 04 was founded and 15 years before the Hamburger SV was joined together by two clubs.
So with the rise of more obscure and non-existent teams, were you talking about Leverkusen and the UEFA-Cup-Win of 1988 and DFB-Pokal-Win in 1993?
There are also a couple of established but smaller Bundesliga-Clubs which earned their stability because of hard work, modesty and competent management.
The mismanagement leading to the descent of HSV, Hertha, Kaiserslautern, FC Schalke, Nürnberg mostly because of becoming greedy after successful years and getting dependent on shady investors, or corporations like Gasprom, wasn´t the fault of clubs taking their place.
I was about to write I’d never expected Alfie to talk about Rot-Weiß Essen, but then again actually this has become nothing unusual and that’s what’s awesome about your channel. Always expect the unexpected.
I'm Glad you made this! My team Hamburg just keep failing Promotion every season against Smaller Clubs! Hamburg is a 100% best fanbase in German football! And Hamburg's first relegation in my case cause a curse on German's National Team! Knocked out of the Group stage in 2018 & 2022 World Cup, and Women's Germany Knocked out of the Group Stage in Women's World Cup 2023. This season, I hope Hamburg can finally be promoted! Keep it up!
First of all, I would like to thank you for the video, it is very well done.
As a German, I would like to add a few things that I think are important and unfortunately came up a bit short in the video.
Especially for Schalke and Hamburg, you can and must simply say that both clubs have repeatedly had small crises over the decades and have gone through financial problems, which has put them on shaky ground compared to other heavyweights of German soccer.
But instead of first taking the success of the 2000s with them, they tried in the 2010s with expensive transfers and old stars and took high financial risks, which as you can see today have not paid off. Especially for these two clubs doubly tragic, since one has done very good youth work and had to sell the future stars "cheaply", whereby the teams were damaged in the long term.
Quasi something that happened to many of the clubs from the video, in addition to the things mentioned such as stadium renovations which have devoured a lot of money, much of which was also co-financed by the countries (which was mentioned).
The biggest problem for many of the clubs was simply the timing of the collapse, which was made more dramatic by high levels of funding for European Cup contenders and led to the "downfall" due to high expectations around the clubs.
50+1 is and was then the nail in the coffin for these clubs compared to other leagues like the PL where they would just get another money injection from their owners.
What doesn't quite fit, however, is the naming of teams like Wolfsburg or Leverkusen, since they were already in the Bundesliga in the 90s and are thus only partly to blame for the clubs' missteps in the last decade.
If the "big" clubs manage to work well and calmly again without creating too much ecstasy in the environment, they will sooner or later also rise because especially through the name of the clubs and often the larger catchment areas more sponsorship revenue and thus more money can be collected, which can lead to a sporting advantage, if it is used properly. Should the leagues be expanded to 20 clubs, it should only be a matter of time before we see some fallen giants back in the Bundesliga.
And to be fair, and this was also mentioned in the video, the soccer culture in Germany works really well, as for many fans it is simply more than just about winning, which is why most clubs will continue to remain well known regardless of whether they play in the Bundesliga or in the 2 / 3.Liga.
This is something I can only say for my "local" club which is Köln but these guys would rather watch a game in the Regionalliga (4th tier) than getting owned by an investor to tie in with the golden times of the 60s-80s.
We the fans already realised that we can't compete with the PL in terms of money and thus should simply focus on our own unique product which indeed lies in the strong bound between fans and teams that are still being majorly owned by us the fans who in the end generate passion and atmosphere that no money can buy.
Ich als Kölnfan kann dir nur in allen Punkten zustimmen. Sehr schön geschrieben
@@gulmen1919 I second that. I really hope Köln can manage to get a stable revenue surplus over the next years with drama-free seasons and no fear of relegations :)
Great comment, also about Wolfsburg or Leverkusen: VW and Bayer are the biggest employers in the area and have been for a long time, which makes their investement in the local football-teams more of a service to their employees (fans of those clubs), than a purely economical calculation as is the case with RB.
Please explain to me why Germans would rather serve Bayern Munich as you lord and master than welcome investment.
This is explained quite simply.
While in many other leagues and countries it is mostly about celebrating the one who wins, in Germany it is mainly the sport / game that is celebrated, winning is a nice bonus, but the main thing for most fans is that their team is passionate and gives everything.
They give everything for the club and sacrifice themselves, something that works better and more honestly when there is less money in circulation and when the clubs also have to rely on their own young players from the region.
The connection to your club is simply much closer than in the Premier League or other leagues in Europe, the prices are more attractive for families and the stadiums are not full of event fans who actually has no idea who is playing against whom, but have heard of the team.
With investors, profit comes first and the often still "down-to-earth" attitude is pushed into the background, ticket prices rise, youth work is neglected and identification disappears.
Especially since the Bayern point is overrated anyway, the times in which you buy exclusively in the Bundesliga are over.
Finally, I would like to give you the tip to deal with the German fan culture, which explains quite well why we are against investors, even the fans of Bayern.
18:00 you sort of glossed over that Hopp actually tried to buy into Kaiserslautern back when they were in real financial trouble, but the fans rejected the idea so harshly that it ended up not going through and he build up Hoffenheim instead
This really highlights why Bayern are so dominant. Too many of the other big clubs got killed by bad management (Schalke, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Hertha Berlin, etc) while the best run clubs are unfortunately much smaller clubs that really can't compete with Bayern financially (Freiburg, Augsburg, Union Berlin, etc). Meanwhile, for all the talk about how having clubs that didn't follow the 50+1 rule would at the very least make the title race competitive, for whatever reason the likes of Leipzig, Hoffenheim (at least until this year when their owner gave up control of the club), Leverkusen and Wolfsburg haven't really shown much title ambitions despite having the financial capabilities to do so. This really just leaves Dortmund as the only other well-run big club (Frankfurt I think is more upper-mid club) but they still seem haunted by their financial crisis in the early 2000s and sell their players far too often to build up a truly title-challenging team.
Frankfurt might have the chance to grow into a big club but this likely will take some more time. Our academy, for example, didn't promote any player into the Bundesliga team for years. Frankfurt has had a lucky hand with transfers over the past years though and they will have to continue to sell their best players out of contract if they can make a profit off them. Cashing in on transfers off very good players is only one part of the equation. The other part is that you would have to raise their salaries considerably if you wanted to extend their contracts which eventually would spoil the whole salary structure.
It would be interesting to see the video on smaller clubs who managed to achieve league safety against all odds & their growth
As a Hertha Fan, I wished you would of talked a bit about our downfall. We started crashing after getting money from an extremely shady investor. We spend rediculous sums of money and ran the club into the ground. We deserved to be relegated. I am happy that the investor left, even though we are left in ruins.
Football is for the fans, not an investment vehicle or vantiy project. I will continue to support my club, despite everything I find wrong with it.
Ha Ho He!
Yeah Hertha, the "Big City Club" became too ambitious. Stop chasing dreams and concentrate on good management and dreams might become true without chasing them.
Great video as always Alfie! You really seem to know to the context behind all of this very well. Kudos to you. If you could make more videos on German and Italian football, it would be appreciated.
how many teams in Italy have not went bust , a sad reflection of boom and bust in Italian football
Thanks for your obscure, interesting and meticulously researched videos. You're one of a kind.
Thanks @rally-quest, very kind of you!
I am a Nuremberg fan (unfortunately) and in my daily life an English teacher. Good summary! Now teams play in the Bundesliga that no one here is really interested in (Augsburg, Heidenheim, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim)
Was macht Augsburg eigentlich so uninteressant wie die anderen 3 genannten, das hat mich immer gewundert?
@@dinohermann1887 1. their atrocious style of play, 2. Augsburg. Sorry for No. 2 and Augsburg is a fine city but most people couldn't locate it on a map.
Very interesting! But you should look at Sweden and make a video why so many fairytale teams promotes to the top league there, Allsvenskan. In recent years Varnamo and Varberg have been labelled fairytale promotions, and the clear leaders of level 2, Superettan now are also labelled a fairytale team, Utsikten. In earlier years we've had teams like Ljungskile, Oddevold, Enkoping, Syrianska, Assyriska, AFC Eskilstuna, Dalkurd, Falkenberg and Mjallby, the latter having spent many seasons in the top flight. But when those fairytale teams fall, they fall hard, and so also some giants. I haven't seen a league in Europe with so many teams suffering back-to-back relegations from level 1 to 3 as in Sweden. The most extraordinary example is Brommapojkorna with this record: 2014: Level 1, 2015: 2, 2016: 3, 2017: 2, 2018: 1, 2019: 2, 2020: 3, 2021: 3, 2022: 2, 2023: 1. One of Swedens most traditional clubs, five times champions Helsingborg are now next-to-bottom at level 2 after relegating from the top flight last season. Giants IFK Gothenburg are now next-to-bottom in the Allsvenskan with fellow giants AIK in the play-off spot. It's quite different from my country Norway where teams relegated from the top flight usually bounce back at the first time of asking. So if you could dive into the madness of the Swedish league it would be highly appreciated!
Kaiserslautern are hopefully on the way back to the bundisliga in the next couple seasons. Plus loved the 2010 kit.
erst mal warten bis der RWE hochkommt damit wir euch weiter vor uns her jagen können (*und neeeeeeeein ich überschätze den verein üüüüüüüberhaupt nicht :-P )
It's not looking good for them, currently they're in the relegation zone of the 2. Bundesliga
@TheRealKingLeopoldII aye they are messing it up.
At 4:52 there is actually the first ever mistake I have ever found in your videos. The picture shows players of the 1. FC Köln while you are talking about the 1. FC Kaiserslautern. Impressive how you never make any mistakes and how that picture also still fit the narrative haha
There's also a picture showing Terence Boyd one of our heros of season 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 (the return form 3rd to 2nd league) while talking about the relegations 2006/2012/2018 down to 3rd league.
Man I miss HSV and Schalke in the Bundesliga. Ditto for the likes of Nurnberg, Kaiserslautern, and 1860 Munich
ESPN+ is televising Schalke vs Holstein Kiel at 9:30 Pacific Time today and Hannover vs Hamburg tomorrow at 11:30 Pacific Time in the USA for anyone who’s interested. The Budesliga and 2 Bundesliga matches can be pretty wild and I recommend watching.
As a part time schalke fan (have watched them since the late 00's when I could), I find it more enjoyable to see them playing 2. Bundesliga because there is good chance they will put on a good shift compared to watching them flounder in the Bundesliga like they have been recently.
@@3lakesroad LOST 0:2 to Holstein Kiel! HAHA!
Watch Hertha this season we finally got a really team most are from Berlin and go out for dinner together they sing the fans lyrics along cause they understand them its awesome to watch 😊
@@starboyhimself7538 Magdeburg 6:4 Hertha muhahaha
Have to admit loved the video. Seen kaiserslautern and my old work weisbaden had the honour to work for v corps
We will be back next year 💙
🧢
hi fc st puali fan here
A lot of those clubs mentioned in the beginning deserve a whole video about their demise, i would recommend you to take a look at schalke because their story especially with everything going on at the club outside of the pitch is really interesting!
He already did a vid on schalke not long ago, search it up. He should do one to HSV
*but amazing deep diving into what really matters about german football, speaking for all your german viewers we love you even more now!!🫶🫶
One point regarding "English weeks": There's no TV blackout in Germany, so there isn't the same pressure to move games from 3 p.m. on Saturdays.
I don't know if it's universal, but round here (Ruhrgebiet), your match ticket includes public transport to and from the game, which might have cost you another €10-15 otherwise. It's cheaper than going to the cinema.
Great video , the German club I follow Dynamo Dresden , never seem to get it right , despite 30,000 passionate fans showing up every week . Shambolic mismanagement. Compare with Union Berlin , a club half the size of Dresden , who continue to enjoy great success in the Bundesliga
Dresden gehört in die erste Liga von den Fans her.
Stuttgart went from relegation strugglers to finishing second ahead of Bayern Munich but only behind the unbeaten Bayer Leverkusen just this last season
Tbh apart from Bayern's dominance, the Bundesliga is arguably the most unpredictable football league in Europe.
I mean in recent years we saw big clubs like Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Schalke and Hertha Berlin had suffered relegation to the second tier, but on the other hand we saw smaller Bundesliga clubs like Augsburg and Mainz (both played the top-flight for more than 10 years) survived longer than we thought and proven to be a punch above their weight in the Bundesliga.
And then we have Bochum, who had survived the drop twice since their return to the top tier despite suffering many beatdowns by other clubs (Though it should be noted that Bochum is known for their resiliency despite they are always classified as a small Bundesliga club).
And finally we have Union Berlin, who is a prime example of being a small Bundesliga club who had achieved success to this day despite only playing in the Bundesliga for the first time in 2019...
As a Schalke fan our down spell is just tragic we are massive but like almost every big club in germany we've stalled and been mismanaged for ages,
Youd think us Stuttgart Gladbach and hamburg would be in title races but no were all either in the lower teirs or just bouncing between Europa league and midtable in gladbachs case,
Something needs to change as the leagues being deemed less than every year despite how much quality and unpredictability the league has (expect for the title race)
16:20 thats not true, we have a very casual audience too that would love to have more money in their clubs with reasonable owners. 50+1 made Bayern dominate for 12years now, our minds have changed a lot over that time!
Love the way germans do football, the biggest clubs in England like Arsenal and Liverpool in the 2nd tier is absolutely unthinkable but clubs of similar size in Germany being in the 2nd tier is the norm it’s mental but would be fantastic to see in england
Even with the likes of rugby League, rugby Union, Speedway, stockcar, and so forth, English football is muchbetter followed at the lower leagues (even though Deuschland is twice the population of England. Also, markworthy how many big city Germany football clubs get a smatch of topflight footy a and for longer unlike the bigger clubs in England. The English topflight is overflowning with smaller town football clubs. The French topflight is the opposite and crammed with as many big city clubs as possible.
Liverpool were a second division team 60 years ago, Man Utd less than 50 years ago, tottenham and Chelse 30 years ago. Man City, Forest, Leeds, Both Sheffield clubs have ben third division clubs in the last 20 ish years. 10 years ago Luton were non-league. English Football is the most vibrant Pyramid in World Football.
As a lifelong Hamburg fan, I can agree with the statement that the 2.Bundesliga is far more entertaining, exciting and tense than the Bundesliga where the battle at the bottom is the only exciting part these days...
Im a fanatical Bundesliga fan from the U.S. I find the traditions of the Bundesliga, 50+1, matchday experience, and especially the ultras, to be especially refreshing coming from an American perspective. American pro sports are the antithesis of soulless exploitive corporate american professional sports. The premier league is very very American in my opinion. I watch Bundesliga and Serie A mostly, when i watch EPL i feel like im hurting the sport tbh (plus the football is kind of boring). Ive seen live bayern, Stuttgart twice (including the title celebration for thr 2.bl title), Frankfurt, and Napoli.
I wouldn't trade the matchday experience of especially Frankfurt and Stuttgart, to sit in a soulless bowl in Arsenal for like 5x the price
So now arsenal is soulless? Bo wonder German football is utter shit lol
in Portugal its not 50%, its 100%. Oh, and you clearly have no idea what the ultras are...
@@fgsaramago I don't?
@@mikexstad1121 ultras deal drugs for their income and occasionally beat up and murder fans of rival clubs. Im sure thats not something you find refreshing...
@@fgsaramago?
Newcastle have done the same several times, Leeds have been down to league one, Sunderland have done that twice, Blackburn were down in the doldrums too. Wolves went down to the fourth division. Of course it must be said that Nuremburg have endured their trials........Sad for HSV though as a double former resident.
Good video overall but i’m surprised you didn’t mention Frankfurt at all. A new stadium was built bevor the WC and Eintracht Frankfurt barely avoided relegation a few years ago but then won the Pokal and the EL in the coming years. Also, with more than 100k members it’s now one of the biggest clubs in germany. And all that with good management and recruiting and not benefitting from a "sugar daddy".
I am an Eintracht fan since 1971 when my dad took me to the Waldstadion. Eintracht indeed has the potential to become a force but their development path is still fragile. I notice fans to become more and more impatient these days and I hope that management does not give in to dreams and hold tight to their strategy. It might take some years to get to the top though.
Why?
1. Talking about past successes rather than working towards winning new titles.
2. Complacency. Being part of the Bundesliga seems to be enough for some clubs.
3. Attitude. Finding and forming talents is constantly talked about. I never hear clubs like Frankfurt (or others) coming up with a plan to build the club up to be able to compete for the league in a few years.
4. Discipline. Firing coaches every 18 months sure doesn’t help.
Damn Alfie, you are KILLING it lately!! 👍👏
Thanks for all your work! ❤
Shout-out to the German model. 👍👏
Love copying and pasting from wiki
If the Premier League followed the German model Manchester United would have won nearly every season just like Bayern. The German league is not a competition it's as much of a competition as WWE.
You mention the nouveau riche German clubs. Maybe we see that a little in the Premier League but probably more in the EFL, where nouveau riche upstarts like Forest Green, Fleetwood, Crawley replaced the more established traditional EFL clubs, relegating several of them to the National League
Perhaps we need a 'reverse takover' of one of these clubs by FC Heidenheim, which made a comeback win against Bayern Munich from 2-0 down and finished 8th in its first ever season in Bundesliga 1 this year. Heidenheim is a small town of 50,000 people.
Since 2011, Bayern have spent €286m on 30 players signed from other Bundesliga clubs, at an average of €9.5m per player. That includes 10 free signings, 4 youth signings and they also poached Kovac and Nagelsmann in that time.
The highest fee was Upamecano for €42.5m. There were 3 strategic decimations of rivals. Dortmund in 13/14 and 14/15, Hoffenheim in 17/18 and Leipzig in 21/22.
Neuer, Mandzukic, Dante, Gotze, Lewandowski, Rode, Kimmich, Hummels, Sandro Wagner, Sule, Rudy, Gnabry, Goretzka, Pavard, Upamecano, Sabitzer and Sommer went for a combined €264.5m, or €16.5m.
Sales to Bayern from other Bundesliga clubs are so undervalued that it dopes Bayern's position in the league. If Bayern had to buy that abroad, or a Premier League club had to buy it, it would be €600m or more.
That's where the Bundesliga fails. Not taxing Bayern for commercial revenue doping and they hoover up the best talent from rivals, who have no money to compete in the open market and lose their best talent so no incentive to grow their academies to be poached, so the national team suffers.
If Bundesliga wants to save itself.
50% tax on commercial revenues over €150m, distributed equally to other Bundesliga clubs.
50% signing on fee for a Bundesliga domestic transfer on a free is taxed on signing club and paid to buying club.
When a Bundesliga club signs from another Bundesliga club, 50% of the player's annual wage is taxed on the buying club and given to selling club.
So for example Goretzka.
Schalke maybe got €3m from Bayern in compensation..
With new rules:
Bayern pay €112m to the Bundesliga in commercial revenue tax. Each Bundesliga club with commercial revenues under €150m gets an equal share, so €5-6m each.
Say Goretzka's signing bonus was €10m, Bayern have to pay Schalke €5m.
Say Goretzka is on €12m per year. Bayern have to pay Schalke €6m per year as a development fee over the length of his first contract.
So instead of Bayern stealing Goretzka for free, Schalke get at least €35m for him even if his contract runs down.
Bundesliga would then be truly fair and could point fingers at England. Now they can't.
From the goretzka circumstances, bayern allowed schalke to stay afloat instead of going to liquidation
@@samuelyee4017 he went on a free. Demonstrate how my suggestion isn't better for Schalke than what they got.
Proof that they all serve Bayern as their lord and master. Happy to be Bayern's bitches but hate Leipzig and Hoffenheim for daring to spend money and try to compete. Weak.
you deserve top comment
To tax the commercial revenue and give it to others clubs is a very bad idea. Missmanaged clubs would definately calculate with that revenue and still spend too much money. Whats worse: they will spend money that might fall away if the big clubs like Bayern or Dortmund would adjust their strategy. That would result in even more debts and problems for some clubs.
A 50% fee for free transfers in the domestivc league might sound nice at first, but this would only lead to a talent bleed to other leagues. The biggest problem are the player agents. The only way to prevent this might be a general rule for all players under 23 for example, where the buying club has to pay 50% of signings bonus and salary for the first 1-3 years (for german or foreign clubs). But UEFA and FIFA will not allow something like that.
I would argue the 50+1 rule saves a lot of clubs
While there's some disadvantages there are also plenty of examples of clubs in other leagues having bad owners and destroying clubs, this format at least helps the team stay from liquidation or all out eliminated from existence
I'd say more incompetence from their from offices is the cause of the down fall esp when some of these clubs have such massive support. If the 50+1 rule wasn't in how far woukd some of these big clubs fall
Hamburg need to come back to the Bundesliga hopefully this season.
In Germany we have a say: "Liebe kennt keine Liga" which means "Love does not know any league".
The fact he mentions about how English Football would be happened if big clubs played in the Championship makes us annoyed. With Premier League still reaching 3rd gameweek, clubs like Manchester United, Chelsea, and Everton are prone for relegation due to recent poor performances, with Chelsea being disappointed a lot, given their huge spendings. Meanwhile, untraditional clubs like Newcastle United, Brighton, and Aston Villa are having a good start. Even Tottenham Hotspurs, one of the big clubs that was classified as "serial bottlers", had a good form with new manager and didn't rely on Harry Kane.
Aston Villa is everything but untratditional, they were Europan champions in 1982.
@@stefan5730 Don't forget Nottingham Forest that won 2 European Cups in a row back in 1979-1980, Ipswich Town that won the Cup Winners Cup in 1981, and Everton that won the Cup Winners Cup in 1985.
My club will most likely be relegated to the Swedish third tier this autumn. We have not played in the top tier since 2009 and our last national championship is 38 years old. But as a member of the club I own it. Not some local rich dude. Not a hedgefund. Not a foreign conglomerate. I own it. We own it. I pity every Englishman because you have never had the opportunity to be anything more than very loyal customers.
Respect
That's bullshit do you think all Englishmen support a "big 6" club?
Imagine one of the traditional top four in the Premier League get relegated
Maybe at some point. But most likely, not in our lifetime. 😅
@@llbuitre why Everton used to be atop club and it is about to be relegated and that happened in like less then half of a lifetime
At this rate, Manchester United & Chelsea is the biggest candidate to relegated.
@@llbuitre imagine Alfie junior making a video on one of the traditional top four being relegated
See Aston Villa in 2015-16
The fact that declan rice is more expensive than all of the stadiums he mentioned in the beginning
As sad as it was to see Hamburg relegated for the first time, it was the most deserved relegation coming due to their inability to change the annual trend of surviving on the last day or through the playoffs before the unthinkable eventually became reality 🙈
I always say that 49+1 rule is ridiculous, it's stupid and unneeded.
Bundesliga with an Abramovic or QATAR investment would be competitive, Bayern now is gonna win it's 11th straight Bundesliga.
In todays Football you cannot survive without proper investment that's why Bayern are above the rest and that's why the Premier League is untouchable.
I'm sorry but all that talk about tradition from these clubs and their fans is just excusing their own incompetence. Hamburg has been heavily supported by the investor Kühne, Schalke by Tönnies, Hertha by Windhorst/Tenor even Bayern (Audi, VW, Adidas) and Dortmund (who is the only German club who's selling stocks) are heavily supported and involved with big corparate investors. It's hypocrisy that they claim they basically owned their lifetime spot in the top flight simply because they have the "tradition" and they won some trophies in the 50s-70s. If they didnt mess up so majorly they would still have their old status because they still have a higher budget than almost all the clubs in the second tier and also more than most in the first tier.
right ? love reading those fans copium 😂😂
I partially agree with this. It's natural that things change over time, and I find it annoying when clubs like Freiburg, Mainz or Union are attacked for being newer to the Bundesliga. Honestly, if Hamburg, Schalke, Stuttgart and Werder had been replaced at the top by Union, Freiburg, Mainz and Augsburg, I don't think anyone could complain. But the truth of the matter is that these clubs were instead replaced by clubs which have massive financial backing and not much of an actual fanbase.
@@socialismandrevolution8299 but they got easily surpassed by the teams you mentioned too. They finished in front of teams like Wolfsburg & Hoffenheim for years too. They still have huge potentials when it comes to revenue and sponsoring but they waste money and get distracted by their own club politics. That’s no one else’s fault but their own imo.
@@saskoreacts Oh absolutely, there's definitely mismanagement at some of the old giants. I think a lot of fans of these clubs are actually aware of that, almost every Hamburg fan I've seen hates how their club is being run. It's just that while it was probably time for at least some of these clubs to fall from the top, the teams that (mostly) took their spot are the wrong ones. It's definitely harder to succeed when you're up against clubs for whom money isn't an issue, at a time when there's so much money in European competitions that they're becoming almost like a closed competition. As a fan of Werder Bremen, I've actually been quite happy to see Freiburg and Union succeed last year. It's nice to see that the financial power of the new top can still be overcome at times, if only for a while.
football is more than just trophies...well said man! we all want to win but theres so much more to the game. greed and trophy culture is killing the love for the game, feels like nothing matters than who won at the end and how much your club spends every window
Respect to German football. England also has plenty of glory hunters who support Premier League teams on the other side of the country to where they're from with no shame. Like Londoners who support Liverpool, Man City and United, and embarrassingly use terms like 'We' and 'Us' to describe these teams. To be fair lower league teams still have the old spirit like the Germans are upholding.
At 15:50 bro lists three companies to sponsor teams but they’re all headquartered in Munich lol
A similar video about the entire history of Romanian football in which only 5 teams that won the title of champion in which they played in a period when there was relegation, Ripensia Timișoara, Colțea Brașov and Venus București which were abolished by the communists and FCSB and CSA Steaua Bucharest and the fans of the two teams want the other team to be disbanded. Well, I don't think it could be a video because there wouldn't be enough interest, but at least I'm helping with the algorithm.
24:55
Not just in Germany, also in the Netherlands there is some outspoken disgust towards clubs with a wealthy owner.
Vitesse for example is hated by fans of most other clubs for paying themselves to success.
ADO Den Haag has had a Chinese owner and their fans wanted him out as soon as he became the owner.
Especially if it is a foreign one without any interest in the club, but that might be because FC Utrecht isn't as successful even with an owner that suffers some form of Stockholm Syndrome.
Besides the fact that FC Utrecht already was a very established club in the Eredivisie and has quite a fanbase to boost it's legitimacy.
If FC Utrecht were to have similar story to FC Hoffenheim... then it would be rather interesting to watch.
Here is a recent example:
FC Utrecht and Vitesse both were/are at 18th spot this season.
When Utrecht stood there, the common opinion was: "I hope they can survive... Utrecht should be part of the Eredivisie..."
Now Vitesse is in it: "With such attitude they deserve to be relegated... I hope they relegate... etc."
And I'm a Feyenoord fan btw, so this isn't any bias. Vitesse and Utrecht have both proven themselves to be tough to beat in recent years.
What I personally find the most surprising is not that German football fans have this extreme pro-tradition mentality, but that English fans apparently DON'T have the same mentality. This is specially puzzling because English people in general seem to be among the ones in Europe that care the most about tradition in other areas and who are always very protective of it.
So why is it that when it comes to footbal, which was literally invented in England, they seem to be so comfortable with the concept of their almost 150 year old Clubs full of tradition being bought by foreign "Owners" (just the use of this word already sounds offensive), who literally play FM with those clubs and don't really care about them?
‘English people care about tradition’
Not sure what you mean by this but I’m sure it sounds wrong
@@HkFinn83 Sorry, I am not a natural English speaker. What I am meant to say is that people in England have the reputation of giving a lot of value to tradition and therefore being protective of it. Just to give you an example. Every year Jürgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola complain in the holiday season about the games that happen around that time, because they believe it would be resonable for the players to have some rest, like it happens in most other countries. But the response they then get in the media is to stop whining about it, because it's tradition to play on Boxing Day, etc.
So my point is that I would expect English football fans to have the same protective mentality when it comes being against their clubs being bought by billionaires for vanity reaons, the same way as German fans do. But for some reason this doesn't appear to apply at all for English fans. So it's just fascinating how love of tradition manifests itself in different ways from country to country.
@@speedy3702 how is being owned by a rich Arab or Russian any less ‘traditional’ than being owned by an old British industrialist or American venture capitalist? It makes no difference as a fan. The only damage the money has done to the Premier League that I can see is to make it much higher quality and more entertaining. People just like complaining about everything, especially when they get to a certain age. The reality is football is still generally a very cheap and accessible sport to go and watch in England. I’m more of a cricket fan than football, and a ticket to a Test match is five times more expensive than to a top premier league game. Look at tennis, F1, any other major sport is stupidly expensive. Imo complaining about the new owners is just a misguided nostalgia. And if they make the game uncompetitive with their spending, well that’s on the FA, UEFA, or the government. If their regulations aren’t fit for purpose it’s their fault.
@@HkFinn83 Well, the point here is not about the "Owners" being Arab, Russian, British or Americans. But it's about the club not having "Owners" at all and instead being owned by the members who then elect the leadership democratically.
@@speedy3702 that’s never been a thing in England, even before the premier league. So there’s no difference now other than the nationality of the owners
Nothing better than alfie talking about HSV :) (although regarding the intro: Hamburg has already surpassed the 90.000 members mark)
And all those 2. Liga-Shenanigans aside at least we have Champions League Football in Hamburg this season😁 (thanks to Donetsk)
I think it's a cultural thing too, the same happens in Spain with Barca and real. When I was a kid (I was a footy fanatic and watched all the top leagues) I wasn't asked what team do you support; it was are you Barca or Madrid. Not enough support goes to your local team. Even on a 1 hour la liga show 20 min is dedicated to 18 teams and 40 min to Barca/real. Always hated that, maybe the same happens in Germany idk
No we will complain but it's a lot of Bayern München content I'm lucky cause Hertha causes a lot of Hollywood so they mobbing us in the news 😂
Same in Scottish football. I am a Heart of Midlothian fan but the best my team can do is finish third.
Them, Hibernian and Aberdeen cannot compete against Celtic and Rangers due to financial reasons.
Celtic and Rangers have dominated with Aberdeen the last league winners outside the old firm in 1985.
And obviously Celtic and Rangers get all the publicity stunts just because they are bigger.
My friend in high school from Nürnberg always said every year that "this year we are going up just you see"
Before I watch the video, most of these clubs are highly mismanaged, paying ridiculous transfer sums and salaries for mostly subpar players who don't care about the club other than the money they get. Sooner or later, they fall out of the European competitions which means they can't pay for their overpriced players but they keep spending like they can. So they go into major debt which doesn't fair well when you don't go to Europe. And not to mention the power struggles at the top, people who only care about "power" and add on to the chaos. Most recently we had Hertha BSC relegated because of this, they are in terrible form even in the second Bundesliga right now and don't look like a club that will be in the promotion battle this year which will probably mean that the club will meet a slow and steady decline to the lower tiers.
they fans love copium and always blame other league
Obv the clubs are far more likely to drop out of European Places if they are competing against Clubs with wealthier Investors
@@skottitohottisee pure copium 😂
Beer in the stadium? In Romania, when there's a match, no stores/bars/pubs/etc are allowed to sell any alcoholic beverages for a few hours, in a 1 (or is it 2?) km range of the stadium
Most of Hamburg's success occured during the 70s and 80s though they really haven't been big players in 21st century German football
They were doing quite well in the early 2000s
Hamburg were a REALLY good team for a lot of the 00’s and early 2010’s, same goes for Bremen and Schalke, if you followed European football at the time you’d remember how tough a matchup getting either of those 3 teams in an European competition was.
kind of crazy but I bumped into Nigel De Jong once in a store in Qatar. I told him I saw him play for Hamburg against Vasco Da Gama in a tournament in Dubai back in 2008 I think it was...I remember raiding Hamburg in football manager, they had De Jong, Kompany, a couple of other really good players. Marting Jol was manager I think.... he hated my on football manager 😆
🧢 Schalke, Hamburg and Bremen were generally the best teams behind Bayern in the mid to late 2000s
Teams like Wolfsburg or Stuttgart had occasional breakout seasons, particularly when they won the league but if you ask someone about the 4 best German teams in the 2000s as a whole, it's likely gonna be those 4, maybe with some slight variations
@@glennaldosfPetric, Van Nistelroy, Choupo-Moting, Jerome Boateng, Olic, Barbarez, Frank Rost and a few others…
Excellent analysis! You really nailed the main facts and additionally provided (at least to me) some new and alternative perspectives. Great job!
Hi Alfie, I love the type of videos from you. Would you do a best English 1st division best managers prior to the formation of the premier league please?
Thank you for these essential videos , excellent filler to listen to when doing them mundane task around my house. 😌
I suppose when you have one club so much wealthier than the others that club being of course Bayern Munich all the rest are playing for also ran status and with it comes the cost of relegation so its probably not suprising that this happens quite regularly in the Bundesliga
Isn't rb leipzeig richer than them
the same thing would have happend to PL it it wasnt for Roman deciding to burn lots of money on a throphys and united screwing up. as long as winning results in more money and more money results in winning a one team league is kinda inevitable. the PL is basically owner lottery some teams lucked out city some got shafed united. the biggest reason city are best team in world atm is that they were shit enough at the right time the same thing could have happend to tottenham or everton but they werent cheap enough at the time.
Its not bayern, its clubs like RB Leipzig and Hoffenheim earlier Wolfsburg and Leverkusen
at 4:48 this is 1. FC Köln, not 1. FC Kaiserslautern
If it’s worse throughout the rest of bungesliga 2, Hertha would be, WTF?
That’s how it is becoming a disaster nowadays for such teams like Hamburg
Fuck Hertha they deserve what's happening to them for selling out to those soulless investor groups.
Please tell ESPN that the 2nd League has great teams and they need to televise more than 2 games in the US!
Another reason for the dominance of Bayern is that it is very hard for the smaller clubs to handle the fixture congestion once they become successful. The need to go from somewhere around 38 - 40 league and cup matches to play in 44+ matches with european football is a lot to handle. This forces clubs to significantly increase squad depth, with no guarantee at all that there will be international football in the next season to finance the increased squad.
Therefore many clubs have only passing success. Some, like Schalke, risked a lot in this step and were punished. Others, like Frankfurt, Gladbach or Hoffenheim, were not able to be successful in both the European Cups and the Bundesliga. Sometimes not even in one competition.
Furthermore the money that is given to clubs by the league, the DFL, is significantly more lopsided than in the Premier League. Last season, Bayern got almost 3x times as much from the DFL compared to the smallest club. In the Premier League the factor is 1.3.
Portuguese clubs have no money to increase squad depth so they simply get relegated in the season they play European football or get pretty close to it
I'd say you see something like this happen with the Europa League and PL teams. If one of the bigger clubs misses out on the CL and gets Europa League, you'll often see their matchday squads for the EL with shirt numbers that look more like a bingo card. A smaller club like West Ham will play something like a proper team, but end up struggling below mid-table because of the additional fatigue and possibly injuries to their already thinner squad.
I'm wondering if we should try to adopt a system where European club football is closer to the US post-season play off model. We have the top leagues finish by say March/April, and then a short knockout tournament to decide to champions. The way UEFA is trying to push more and more European games in to the seasons feels to me like it is going to lead to a breaking point sooner rather than later. Maybe that's the plan, to create a crisis that makes a super league a necessity?...
1860's double relegation caused their second team to get relegated because they would have otherwise been in the same league. The second team finished second in the league that season!
Can someone tell me why there are only 18 teams in the Bundesliga? Wouldn’t an expansion to 20 teams like the other top 5 leagues help with this problem? Or am I missing something.
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it's time to expand to 20 teams.