Is the Buddha a Christian Saint?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Did you know the Buddha is a Christian saint? We'll look at the convoluted history of the story of Barlaam and Josaphat, its origins in early Buddhism, and some lessons it holds for today.
Books:
Donald Lopez, From Stone to Flesh: amzn.to/2pecgjB
Donald Lopez and Peggy McCracken, In Search of the Christian Buddha: amzn.to/2NjtOZP
A UA-cam video of Donald Lopez discussing the legend: • A Christian Buddha: Th...
The Golden Legend Story of Barlaam and Josaphat: sourcebooks.fo...
Some additional reading:
www.daannijssen...
www.patheos.com...
www.lionsroar....
www.newadvent.o...
Images of Barlaam, Josaphat, and Avenir courtesy of The J. Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles.
Image of Sixtus V courtesy of Wikimedia.
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The Hindus claim the Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu. Now the Christians claim the Buddha is a Christian saint, which is ridiculous because the (historical) Buddha predated Christianity by 5 centuries. Interesting indeed.
😄Well to be fair, most Christians aren't aware of who this saint really seems to have been named after.
@@DougsDharma, I see, ok. 😄😄
Hindus claim is weird, because they calim Buddha to be 9th avatar of Vishnu but at the same time it is also written that when asuras became too powerful after learning teachings of Vedas, vishu took his 9th avatar as Buddha to preach false teachings so that those asuras might get deluded from their path and would start following false teachings which would in turn make them weak and would easily get killed by hindu gods.
@@StreamWinner14
Buddha claimed to be Rama in a past life according to the Jataka Tales.
Christians claiming buddha is christian is ridiculous.Buddha and his ideals are much older than Christianity.
This is the first time I've heard about this. Boggles my mind a little that uncle Sid is both a Christian saint and an avatar of Vishnu. Very fun. Thanks for the video, Doug.
You're very welcome! Yes history can be funny that way.
www.feelguide.com/2017/01/19/bbc-doc-proves-jesus-was-a-buddhist-monk-named-issa-who-spent-16-years-in-india-tibet/
Budhdha in the hindu puranas is a different person from the sidhdharha gowthama budha. Their mission , purpose and tachngs are totally different. The meditative pose is supposed replicated. Read the bhagavat purana. To know the difference.
Go and watch videos with authentic full information in full detailed on science journey channel for only Indians because they know hindi😊
Rishi of Rishipatana means sage, saint, or ascetic. Patana means falling or descending.
The difficulty in biblical terminology is how to trace the meaning of a "saints" disposition... since they are actually expressions aquired from Buddhism without context related to a person working on their human ascension. For instance. Jesus -is in actuality described being Maitreya buddha. A person of ascension from the six paths into a seventh heavenly state, hence the old "Seventh Heaven".
The King of all Sutras... off-shoots as well, will provide answers anyone seeks. But not for an historian unwilling to seek truth a proper way.
Sir,are you saying sidarta buddha was a chiristan?
It is like the chariot before the horse.
Thks
Hi Hiruy, not at all! I'm saying that it's a weird and funny bit of history. 😀
You've watched the video?
Reminds me of the story of Issa, Jesus the Buddhist monk. There is a strong desire to link these figures to create a more complete, nicely packaged, narrative of humanity's spiritual evolution. But their teachings are radically different from one enough. Trying to reconcile a monotheistic religion where salvation is only achieved through faith of a single messiah and that of the Dhamma as taught by the Buddha, seems like a bit of a stretch.
Yes, there is a lot of misunderstanding in these stories, but they are historically interesting nonetheless, and hold good lessons for our understanding of the past.
Issa is Jesus in Arabic
Jesus more likely went to learn Buddhism in his lost years if you do your research.
Thanks for your thoughts Eaglez27.
@@DougsDharma - Have you seen the BBC documentary that claims what Eagle is saying? It's on UA-cam if you put in "Was Jesus a Buddhist Monk?". I don't buy it, but it's a fun, short documentary to watch!
He converted his faith. To be holy. Not persuaded
No lol, it isn’t likely at all. There is no evidence for that. I believed there was until recently when I actually did more reading lol
Jesus learn Buddhism? If Jesus learn Buddhism, Jesus revive dead people from where?
The Buddha is a Christian saint?
I am sorry. Lord Buddha was born 623 B.C. That is , before Christ.
Did you watch the video before commenting? 😉
Medieval Christians often believed that there were Christian kingdoms to the east that had survived Islam. For instance, in the story of Prester John, or Barlaam and Josaphat.
Yes, thanks Magnulus76!
During the Age of Discovery that was a strong legend of christians living in India. Some think that might have been inspired by buddhists monks.
Interesting Gabriel, thanks. It doesn’t surprise me. 🙂
Southern India has had Christians since ancient times, for instance the Malankara Orthodox Church is a Syriac church that has been in India longer than Christianity has been in some parts of Europe. According to legend, St. Thomas brought Christianity to southern India.
Everyone seems to be attracted to Buddha first it was Hindu who thinks he is 9th avatar of Bishnu and now i know it’s Christian as well as Muslim thinks Buddha was Christian saint :)
Exactly so Yugal, it's pretty funny! 😄
Budhism is not a different religion compared to sanatana dharma. The core ideas are hindu
@@anandpendyala but it's clearly different from modern Hinduism
@@broadcastwithatg5195 the Buddhist philosophy has been taken from the Upanishads which are books on Indian philosophy
@@broadcastwithatg5195 certain aspects of Buddhism have been taken from the Upanishads. There are certain Buddhist schools who ideas are similar to that of Buddhism
Could it be the other way around since Buddhism is much older?
How do you mean, SK SIP?
@@DougsDharma Probably he meant if Jesus was a Buddhist or a bodhisattva. Mahayana says that bodhisattvas can use white lies if their audience cannot understand the true Dharma. Maybe that's why Jesus said he created everyone?
Don’t forget that a form of Buddhism that was heavily syncretized with Hellenic philosophy and religion was very popular before and during Jesus’s time in the Hellenic world, and especially in far-off border provinces of the Roman Empire like Palestina.
@ Adam A
Well, Buddha, Kundalini and many other things are older than Christianity. Many christians often try to change history. Thankfully, we have enough documented history to debunk any such dishonesty ...
@ Seth Read
Seth, it has often been said that Mahayana Buddhism in particular itself was heavily influenced by Hellenic philosophy. That view has been challenged by others, who suggest the reverse. Greeks also became buddhists, after all. There might have been a Greek influence on Mahayana, but Theravada points to the original teachings of Buddha. Theravada and Early Buddhism really take us back, as much as possible, to what Buddha himself must have taught during his lifetime ...
Definitely not
Yes history is strange sometimes.
Hi Doug! I want to ask your advice, it is kind of related to the topic of the video. What it is is that I tend to overreact to social media posts from Christians. I have been an atheist since I can remember and more recently proclaimed myself a Humanist to acknowledge the fact that everyone has a right to believe what they will. Unfortunately when Christians share posts saying such things as 'praising the Lord' & 'God has a plan for you' etc etc. I find myself becoming angry at the ludicrous nature of it. Why should they think they are so special? What about the children dying in Yemen and Syria etc? It infuriates me to think that otherwise good people are indoctrinated into believing there is a loving creator God who will take care of them if they simply believe in his existence. I realise it is counterproductive but have quite often shared some of the more ludicrous passages of the bible in an attempt to demonstrate the stupidity and hypocrisy. It isn't healthy for me being triggered in such a way and it is decidedly un-buddhist. Thoughts?
Great post Patrick and I think you’ve diagnosed it yourself! I’ve been through some of the same tribulations, being an atheist and humanist online for years. There are many worse beliefs than thinking there is a loving god out there somewhere. A liberal, right thinking theist is in my estimation more laudable than a reactionary atheist, of whom there are many. But in either case, one should keep right speech in mind, as best one can, for one’s own sake as well as the sake of others.
@@DougsDharma yes, excellent advice and I completely agree with you. It is a balancing act I suppose between being 'engaged' and reactionary. I think I will always find it difficult not to react against the more evangelical types. I will need to keep in mind 'right speech'. 🙏
Yes. Most often one is not going to change minds, only annoy people to no good end. 🙂
Patrick Cahill
It can be frustrating, very much so.
The only thing I can offer you in terms of advice is to remember that for the vast majority of times, they mean well and come from a place of care with these ideas & comments.
When they realise the inherent flaws in the conceptual ideas of their faith, then we have a right to open free discussion with them in my opinion.
Don’t forget though, some people who’ve come through trauma have done so thanks to the ability to cling on to the notion of a “Lord” taking care of them. This is how they cope and indeed survived and from a Buddhist stand point I can’t fault them as not everyone feels able or has the strength to trust in themselves (even though the clinging to an invisible Lord is in fact the work and creation of the mind of itself, just an elaborate trick)
What might also be worth keeping in mind is, regardless of who is right, if we are to react with anger and force our ideals upon them and challenge them with aggression then we are no different.
Calm discussion with them opening the dialogue is a much healthier and progressive platform for change - in my very humble view
Very interesting!
I think so too!
what some belive is Jesus meditate in India in his lost years, and study buddhism before start his teachings... buddhism started 623 years before Jesus born. however buddhism has history and base of Hinduism as buddha was a hindu (same as Jesus was Jew). there we should not belive some stories we heared without firm proof
Actually it may be that Jesus is a Buddhist monk since Buddha was before Christianity or Jesus.
Well, it's funny how history gets told sometimes.
Question for later discussion, perhaps... Do you ever have doubts about the historical reality of a guy called Siddhartha Gautama who, for whatever reason, became personally enlightened and started the whole thing? Especially doubts about the dating of his lifetime? My former teacher told me that archaeology has pushed these dates back by centuries, but I don't understand how you can tell in the remains of an ancient monastery if it is Buddhist or Jain or something else, even a school. In short, what is historically verifiable about Buddhism and where it came from? Thanks, Tricia
Hi Tricia and thanks for the questions, as you might imagine nobody can really answer definitively, all we can do is go on the best information we have. Archaeology provides some data but as you note it’s very sketchy. Settlements back in 500BCE India where the Buddha would have been were small and may not have been constructed from durable materials, so I don’t know how much we can tell about his life from that kind of information. The best information generally we have are the canonical texts in Pāli and their parallels in Sanskrit and Chinese. Scholars of those texts are therefore generally in the best place to answer such questions. They are who I look to in my videos, folks like Anālayo, KR Norman, Richard Gombrich, Rupert Gethin, and several others. They all hold that there was a historical Buddha who died sometime around 400 BCE.
Good question and we should find good answer too. There are many stories around the Buddha but the early texts from different schools in parallel provide the informations that can trace back to the same source from the century after Buddha passed away(before separation of those schools). These sources are the most reliable for historical Buddha alongside with archaeology. Sorry that ancient India was not so much interested in recording history, which happened not only in Buddhist case.
I recommend you to find the course on Early Buddhism by ajahn Sujato on UA-cam.
@@कुमारछत्रसरदमीन Thanks! Will do!
Yes, ajahn Sujato has a good paper with ajahn Brahmali on the authenticity of the early texts. It is distributed through the Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies: ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/authenticity.pdf
@@DougsDharma Thanks for the help. This has been a big question for me.
Buddha said no god
He was geographically isolated
Yes sri lanka was named as serendib by arabians.
It seems simple. when a story has merit to resonate with people, it may propagate over distance through communication. But people of far regions are not familiar with native concepts or culture, and have held beliefs of their own lifestyles. So with information and understanding of far regions being scarce, rumors and more vague stories get framed according to far place's own understanding of things, and in the end the story becoming about what they believe in.
I'm actually impressed that that story more or less held some consistency. The religion gets swapped to own, but the restriction in palace, the seeing of reality signs, and the prince leaving for a spiritual life - at least that bit held together. who knew.
Yes it’s kind of funny isn’t it!
We know you are putting horse before the cart .
Sri Lanka is not in the realm of possibilities as it is said that Apostle Thomas travelled to South India to proselytize Indians and Jews.
Jesus was Buddhist practicioner
He preached compassion and other similar things than the Buddha. There are theories that he lived in India for a while. But he never talked of meditation, which is central to Buddhist teaching.
It's an interesting story and it points up the subtle ways that different religions have, or might have, influenced each other. That said, it seems to me it's a stretch to say the Buddha is a Christian saint. After all, in the story he's believed to be a Christian, even if the basic story line is descended from the famous one about Gautama Siddhartha. Am I caviling?
Yes indeed enronal, it is a bit of a stretch since the story is so historically convoluted. But there is more than a grain of truth to it. 🙂
No, there is so significant evidence in favor of this idea.
Right, but did you watch the video? 😀
@@DougsDharma yes I have, I disagree that there is a connection between them in origin, but considering location and the spreading of the story, it's not impossible for there to be conflation. There are also aspects of St. Iosaph's life which, to my knowledge don't have a comparison to the life of the Buddha, like the public debate between the advisors of King Abner and and Nachor who was to loose the debate under the guise of St. Barlaam, but won because of the penalty of death imposed on him by St. Iosaph. There is also St. Iosaph's debate with the sorcerer Theudas. St. Barlaam also shares the same name as another St. Barlaam who was a martyr who lived around the same time in the 4th century. St. Barlaam is also traditionally held to have been a desert dweller and Shinar is said to have been a place near or referring to Babylon.
Thank you for the quick respond on my coment.
You're very welcome! 🙂
St. Josaphat of India (Siddhartha) pray to God for us 🙏☦️ pray and help guide me on the path that leads to eternal life and that my ego may be destroyed.
Lol😂😂
@@gouthamkrishnan6718So you're an Atheist?
Fascinating, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
The story could have zoroastrian origins
An interesting story.
Yes, isn't it? 🙂
@@DougsDharma , Yes, I was surprised. I guess the middle east (Islamic countries) was a reason to those misunderstandings. Middle east (Islamic countries) was a barrier which disconnected the west from east. I guess still a lot of western people don't know about Buddhism well.
www.feelguide.com/2017/01/19/bbc-doc-proves-jesus-was-a-buddhist-monk-named-issa-who-spent-16-years-in-india-tibet/
Like all things stolen and digested made it wests own . Budhas is as well stolen
No, Jesus was a Bhodisatva. His comming was foretold by the Buddha
How so?
I can’t say from exactly where but I have heard a Buddhist monk say this. There is also a lot of evidence suggesting Jesus travelled to india after the time of the crucifiction
As a Buddhist I agree that jesus was most likely a Boddhisatva, but he wasnt foretold by Buddha
@shiven you could be right, it is what I heard and may not be entirely accurate, however the records in the temples speak of Jesus being there, this is verified in the ancient scrolls preserved by the monks
@@happyozzie Yes, I've heard what you're talking about, however, those scrolls are most likely not the original words of the Buddha as they were not documented in the Pali Canon and also the concept of a saviour contradicts what the Buddha has preached. I personally, as a Theravada Buddhist believe Jesus was an enlightened being but the his words have been manipulated over time. Many also believe concepts such as rebirth and karma existed in the bible but were removed by Emperor Constantine.
Plato is buddism
You think so? I have a lot of respect for Plato but his approach seems pretty different to me.
@@DougsDharma yeap.And Parmenides and Heraclito are both sides of Lao Tse, Giordano Bruno is Shankara. Ideas are there, some people just get to see them, that is why they tell the same story. Because is the same idea.
Plato was very much manipulated by St Agustin to serve as a backbone of Catolicism. Then they changed to Aristoteles through Escholastica of St Thomas Aquino. The concept of infinite-God of Aristoteles (a finite infinite) was much more convenient than Plato's , too Panteistic, and that is the original sin, pretend to be god. So a not so almighty god was choosen. So that you and god do not have the same essence. A very limited infinite, an Antropomorphic god. As Giordano Bruno said, Aristoteles was the most stupid prince of philosophy. He did not know leibnitz and infinitesimal maths.
Aristotle is the Greatest Philosopher in the history of mankind. Why ? Coz he contributed to around 20 fields of knowledge. All of them were a part of Natural Philosophy, back then in Ancient Greece.
Also, Mathematics is Axiomatic. Infinitesimal Calculus of Newton was debunked by later Mathematicians. Why ? Simply coz Mathematics is Axiomatic and to understand it, we need to study Euclid's Elements.
Finally, Plato was not really a Buddhist. His ideas were very Upanishadic. Buddha went against the Upanishads. Buddha also taught a lot of stuff that Plato knew nothing about ...
Doug, a little off topic but related, what do you know about historical information that puts Buddhist monks in Alexandria around (maybe before or after?) the time of Christ? Somewhere in the past I read about "theras" or some Buddhist linked term to designate the people in Alexandria. Not sure if there are other examples, but have you come across this?
Hmmm ... thanks for the question Michael, unfortunately it’s not something I’ve heard about.
@@DougsDharma I know Wikipedia is often a questionable source, but this article mentions th e "Therapeutae" I was referring to. I cannot remember where I first saw it, but I didn't think it was wikipedia. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_influences_on_Christianity
Thanks for the link Michael. Wiki is generally pretty decent in my estimation but no single source can be taken as definitive. In this case I’d tend to agree with the judgment in the opening paragraphs, that such influences are unlikely for the reasons given. As for Therapeutae, recall that “Theravāda” wasn’t the name of a school of Buddhism until the late 19th c.
Some believes that Therapeutae can be derived from "Theraputta" or the children of the Elders. But also the word Theravada appeared since the long past but not as a separate school.
The information about this monastic sect shows the image which is very very similar to Buddhist monks. They just appeared after Asoka and connection between the West and India and the special things that make me think is this sect had some things so different in such an ancient West : they were celibates(contrast to Greek, Egyptian orJewish preist) and they were both male and female.
Read about Buddhism in Gandhara, and its rule by the descendants of the invasion of Alexander the Great, particularly en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menander_I .