Buddhism and Rebirth, a History
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2019
- Rebirth has been a Buddhist view for centuries. We'll discuss its origins in ancient Indian thought as well as its commonalities with ideas in the West. We'll also discuss its relation to ideas of time, and how those changed in the West. Finally we'll discuss some more recent ideas about rebirth.
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The thumbnail on this video of a recycling symbol reminds me of my beloved aunt’s funeral. We gave her a natural burial, and planted a tree over her coffin. As a result her coffin was made of a thick, biodegradable cardboard. My aunt used to be involved with a community art centre, so we decided to decorate her coffin as an art project. The children loved it. I drew a star pattern out of parabolic lines. My brother-in-law had an idea, but worried it would inappropriate. "Can I draw a recycling symbol?" We all laughed, and were sure that she would have appreciated it. Hers was the most beautifully joyous funeral I have ever attended - I didn’t believe before that the cliché about "celebrating life" at a funeral could be so real.
I remember an exercise suggested by Thich Naht Hahn of contemplating a tangerine, and its interconnectedness with the whole cosmos, to illustrate the notion of dependent origination. "We inter-are", he liked to say, and I think this helps us to think properly about death.
"No man is an island, entire of itself;
Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less."
I don’t know exactly what my aunt believed about an afterlife. I am sceptical. I know that she was made of atoms, of which some once belonged to the Buddha, others to rocks, and all to stars; I know that hers will find their way into new forms of life and phenomena in the cosmos. And I know also that her impact still ripples through the skein of the world, as in this very sentence.
We will all be washed away by the sea in the end, and return to the deep ocean from which we arose. It is a mystery in which we can and must find peace.
When I visit my aunt’s sapling, I like to recite from Whitman:
"I depart as air, I shake my white locks at the runaway sun,
I effuse my flesh in eddies, and drift it in lacy jags.
I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow from the grass I love;
If you want me again look for me under your boot-soles.
You will hardly know who I am or what I mean,
But I shall be good health to you nevertheless,
And filter and fibre your blood.
Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged,
Missing me one place search another,
I stop somewhere waiting for you."
Wonderful recollection, thanks! 🙏
Beautiful read! Thank you for your thoughts.
Hi Doug, after a period away I am grateful to have found your channel again, it feels like coming home, your teaching is elegantly insightful and enlightening; may you and all beings be well.
Thanks James, glad you are back!
As a sort of secular follower of Zen Buddhism, I view rebirth as metaphorical. Instead of rebirth happening when your physical body dies, rebirth is happening for you every single moment. After all, you are only truly your present experience, not your past or future experiences. In that context, Karma can be seen as how actions in your past effect your present and how actions in your present effect your future.
Yes Dialask, I see it much the same way. 🙏
We are referring Rebirth beyond this life where our consciousness aka karmic energy which are accumulated over many lives till it's liberated from Samsara. What you perceive as rebirth at every moment is really the rising and falling feeling of Impermanence.
I think what's more important is the idea of a Self that's neither a physical construct nor a mental construct. For meditation purposes, it doesn't matter what it is, only what it's not.
Yes, well said fairytalejedi. Thanks!
For a 20 minute presentation, that was remarkably thorough. Bravo!
Thanks so much, Dread. Glad you liked it. 🙏
Good information and good work, I can feel the genuine passion and clarity of thought on the subject matter. Very helpful! Thank you!
You're very welcome Matija!
I'd love to get involved in the work you do Doug. Best UA-cam channel I know of.
Thanks BlueBoo, very kind of you to say.
Thought provoking speech! Thanks
🙏😊
Interesting discussion!
I wonder also about the modern reinterpretation of rebirth. Of the constant recreation of the self that we undergo.
I live in a Daoist monastery. It’s similar to the discussion of immortality here. A reinterpretation of it as a release of the transitory aspect of our nature that dies.
So, rebirth and immortality as metaphor rather than actuality. 🙏
Yes, there are lots of good reframings of rebirth, if you haven't seen the video yet I discuss this here: ua-cam.com/video/bP1ZWvmJQOw/v-deo.html
Love ur channel.
Would u please post a video on the subtle and technical difference between hindu and Buddhist rebirth?
Thank you.
Thanks sherab. It might be something I would talk about someday if I could find a way to discuss it historically for example.
Thank you for the wisdom! It made me think of one of my teachers who talked about the wheel of samsara, but as it pertains to how we change in THIS life (e.g. being in a state of hell, never being able to have enough, acting with ignorance like animals, etc.) I don't know what happens after I die, but that's how the wheel of samsara resonates with me. Rather than a wheel of rebirth, to me it's more of a wheel of different states of mind. Much respect to those who do believe in rebirth though. Whatever helps, believe in it. 😊
Exactly so Shannan. Some find it useful, and that's great! 🙏
Just as Einstein said, "Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it isn't true" ~ Of course as we live in This life we need to do what we need to do right to achieve our goal..to change something etc. But its really important to acknowledge the truth of rebirth/reincarnation and how important it is. In the end of the day, our purpose is to go back to God's hands and one of the step is overcoming rebirths (in Hinduism its called achieving Moksha). And we capable to do that in This life actually if we mean it.
(and Samsara literally means the wheel of rebirths)
very interesting!
Yes I agree! 🙂
Sir Roger Penrose, a Nobel prize winner in Physics, has some interesting ideas about a circular universe. He has some intriguing ideas about consciousness as well.
Yes though they are extremely speculative and fringe claims within physics.
I agree that belief in rebirth has no consequence on our ability to progress on the path of Dhamma.
Also would like to add that Buddha had no hesitation about challenging the concept of Atman so he would have no problems challenging rebirth if he didn’t agree with the idea. This leaves only the possibilities that either Buddha was not truthful or he still had delusions left in his mind. This would lead us to the conclusion that Buddha was not an awakened being.
For me agnosticism is the safest position on this point.
Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana there is no “right belief”. The noble eightfold path is right understanding, right intention, right action, right speech, right livelihood, right mindfulness, and right concentration.
From the Pali Canon, I don’t think rebirth would fall under right belief. It would probably fall under right understanding (aka right view)
Buddha cannot be wrong he is omniscient.
星白 閑 actually Buddha never claimed he was omniscient. But I do believe he was free from three poisons of greed, hate, and delusion. Such a being can neither lie nor claim something to be true that they do not know to be true.
"This leaves only the possibilities . . . "
There's also the possibility that we have no idea what the Buddha thought at all.
"This leaves only the possibilities . . . "
There's also the possibility that we have no idea what the Buddha thought at all.
There is something in science now that suggests that the universe is not going to just continually expand. You can see it in discussions of dark matter and dark energy. From my limited understanding is dark matter is probably a poor term for it, but it is to say there isn't enough matter in the universe to explain how things are behaving, while dark energy is something basically an opposite to gravity, a force that increases the further two objects are separated, which seems very non-intuitive. Supposedly this force is much weaker than gravity, but would explain why everything would not simly cease to exist. I do not fully grasp the concept, but there are videos from Stanford University explaining it. I have been watching a series on Einstien's Thoery of Relativity that discusses Dark Energy briefly.
One of the things that fascinates me is that Einstein was able to come up with his theories based upon seeing the everyday world and applying that to the behavior of the universe. The most common story of this is viewing the world from soneone on a train versus someone observing a train. It was supposedly those observations that led to the theory of relativity which was eventually accepted by observing the behavior of light from distant stars during an eclipse. The term accepted is important here because it does not mean proven. It just means he used an every day occurrence to predict something that he had not yet observed. In other words, it is the best explanation we had at the time and it was consistent with the new evidence gathered during the eclipse.
I find this topic fascinating, but again, I am not wise enough to understand all of it. You might say, I still don't know what I do not know.
Yes contemporary cosmology is fascinating but who knows how much of it is accurate at those enormous scales of time and space?
Check out onlinedharma.org/ for courses on early Buddhism!
6 realms are 6 timelines of the universe.
There are lots of interesting finding in Dr Jim Tuckers work. What do you think of these findings.
They appear to me much the same as Ian Stevenson's work, which is unscientific. They also do not follow the Buddha's teaching that memory of past lives is a special ability that we come to after perfection of the fourth jhāna.
Thank you Doug for these videos, I like your approach to the teachings of the Buddha since I myself lean towards sharing the dharma in a secular way.
However, how do you reconcile the law of karma without the idea of rebirth? What would be the cause of an unfortunate rebirth, for example?
Well when I say I have a secular approach what I'm saying is that I leave aside questions of rebirth. I don't personally find them useful or credible, though I know some do and that's fine.
thankyou -blessings
🙏😊
I've had it explained two ways to me.
First is that it was a pre-existing part of the Indian perception of how the universe worked.
So along with the existence of deities and other supernatural things this was accepted into Buddhism.
Since the purpose of Buddhism was not to change the social order or rock the boat
(or appear to be trying to do so, which may risk reprisal).
But rather to offer a way out of suffering.
The other explanation I got from a western Venerable monk of the Theravada tradition is that reincarnation is a useful metaphor. It helps people to see themselves as having possibly lived lives as lower caste, and as lower animals before that.
So instead of thinking "I am merchant caste, I have always been better than lower caste". They may glimpse that they had to spend time as untouchable before they could be a higher caste. And before they can escape from suffering they may have to endure a couple more turns.
This logically leads to compassion without a lot of browbeating and rhetoric. Or at least heavily implies it.
This same Venerable explained that in many places where you see a very, very large number being used, it is because it dates to a time when the concept of infinity wasnn't really prevalent. So a number that is so vast it boggles the imagination in a way similar to infinity is invoked. He then recounted a couple phrases from suttas that invoked similar concepts of vast time or numberlessly large amounts.
Pointing out that if you conceive that your self has re-incarnated numberless times as every kind of person and animal, you are compelled to have compassion for these ants, lower caste people and others.
It is kind of funny, of all the Buddhist monks and nuns I have spoken with, only Tibetan Buddhists will say unequivocally that reincarnation is a thing that happens.
Yes, I think it can be a useful metaphor, and I will be releasing a video on that topic in a few weeks. There are many Theravāda monks who take it literally, however.
My personal thoughts on Rebirth and Reincarnation are influenced by Evolutionary Biology. From what I remember of my biology courses, the nervous system evolved from specialized cells in metazoan organisms (multiple celled organisms as opposed to protozoans which are unicellular organisms). The function of these cells is to organize the organism's actions to help it survive. Nervous cells organize muscle activity and data from sensory organs to move around, feed, reproduce, deal with social issues (if a social animal), and flee or fight the foe. Higher mental functions evolved in the brain (a specialized structure of the nervous system) to store and treat more complex information, imagine future strategies for the same above behaviours and goals, so as to further survival in this life. With the arising of self-awareness and imagination, and foreseeing one's end, one started planning also for the eventuality of an afterlife! ;)
In Buddhism all the evolutionary thinking is seemingly put aside, the idea that these various specializations evolved to further the earthly survival of an organism is seemingly ignored and somewhat devalued. The idea that brain, mind and consciousness evolved solely for survival seems to be unsatisfactory and pointless (as it often seems to me also). For most biologists, the mind is created anew with each new being and belongs to that entity only. There would be relics in the organism's mind of past evolutionary mental adaptations encoded in it's DNA (Evolutionary Jungian psychology, Archetypes in humans, Maclennan). For Buddhists (and maybe Hindus also), bodies seem to have been created miraculously "as is", with an empty nervous system already there to receive the consciousness (imprinted by past karma), of organisms that have passed away, and which continue on into each new birth.
I have a personal understanding of how the belief in rebirth and reincarnation came about in the past. But this is only a supposition and not necessarily fact.
I think some sensitive humans (i.e. Gautama) intuitively and unconsciously realized how close species are one to another. This has been proven scientifically as Evolutionary Biology has shown. Humans, but also fungi, bacteria, plants, insects, fish, animals are basically made of the "same stuff": DNA. And all living beings passed through numerous stages or "lives" before reaching their present form. All beings continue to evolve. The fact we can understand the emotions of a dog or a cat, or even a bird like a parrot, makes it easy then to think we have in ourselves parts of these animals (we probably have the same brain structures for emotions) if we understand and identify with them so well. We can extend that and say we were once "like" them and maybe literally lived AS those animals; that would explain how we understand and identify with them so well, i.e. we lived their lives in the past.
MacLennan: Evolutionary Jungian Psychology
pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0f7f/71f88277bc573227de32c5bdd9562149b53c.pdf
Thanks for your thoughts Kenneth.
Spot on! A rare breath of fresh air on the topic! The problem is that so few--secularists and theists alike--have bothered to inform themselves about the fascinating dynamics and immense explanatory power of evolutionary theory as well as, for lack of a better term, a Jung-ish view of the persistence of archetypes. (Many scientists are dismissive of Jung, but, however poorly articulated or however much he may have gone overboard, his central ideas about archetypes are quite valid and compatible with the evolutionary theoretic view you articulated above.)
At the moment I am reading Buddhadasa Bikkhu's short booklet on the Buddhist ideas of anatta or not self, and, unfortunately, despite the wisdom in his writing, he provides yet another example of misunderstanding evolutionary theory when he describes evolutionary theory as including a trajectory from lower order to higher order (as opposed to the more realistic understanding that organisms simply are adapted to environments, nevermind the level of complexity or "highness").
Kenneth Grandchamp Here is the only other thing I would add: This is pure fantastic speculation here, but it could be possible that, by some mechanism still not understood, the human mind is able to access information about other times and places. Perhaps it has something to do with a holographic universe, quantum entanglement or something similar, but if such a fantastic possibility were a real phenomenon, it would be an alternative way of explaining "memories" of past lives not as memories at all, but mere access to information. Again, just speculation here, but the idea is to show that even with a fantastic-speculative mindset, those experiences which tend to be counted as evidence of rebirth still do not count as such evidence.
@@didjesbydan As you said, there's room to fit speculations about how rebirth or reincarnation would happen and you were spot on when talking about Quantum Entanglement and I would go even further and talk about the possibility of a forth dimension that may be where the Entaglement would happen, since it'd be kinda the same as puncturing a paper with a pencil in which we'd not see the totality of the pencil if we were 2 dimensional beings. But yeah, it's all a pretty big room with tons of speculation about stuff we may or may never scientifically understand.
Hello, could you suggest me a Buddhism book about rebirth, active karma & everything between about supernatural?
I will give you a simple logical ideas for rebirth. If you can born in this life! why you cannot be born again?
Thanks for your thoughts! 🙏
This, and your other video on rebirth which led me to this, is all very interesting and useful. But, as with most rebirth commentary, I am frustrated to find no mention of what could arguably be said to be the most useful rendering of the rebirth idea: to see rebirth into a next life as a metaphor for rebirth of identification with a sense of self or sense objects in this life. Just as the mythopoetic perspective is the great neglected perspective among exotericists of the Christian tradition and among their secular antagonists, so it seems to be with the Buddhist.
Thanks Dan, I do discuss the metaphorical understanding of rebirth in several of my videos, most recently this one: ua-cam.com/video/ckCuE-Kt9v4/v-deo.html.
Great video! Question ❓ this ideas of impermanence or change, reminded me Heraclitus and the his philosophy of Change or impermanence, but I always was more with Parmenides and his idea that whatever is is, that something exist and never change, in other words we see just the manifestations but not the ultimate reality. Is there in buddhism an ultimate reality?
Well in some later schools of Buddhism there is something more like an idea of "ultimate reality". One could even say from the very beginning that "the dharma" is a kind of ultimate reality, as is "nirvana". I don't think that would have necessarily been the way the Buddha viewed them, but nevertheless they could be seen that way.
@@DougsDharma thank you for replying to message 👃
I'm like semi-secular on this subject if that's possible. Since we infer the metaphysical is governed by the same laws as the physical like causality- karma, I'd say because matter is never really destroyed but transforms it's possible to apply it to the non physical, an interesting thought nonetheless. But then when the cosmology of literal realms of rebirth and tendencies of past lives carrying over it seems too out of place. Too human-centric and indo-centric to apply to a religion concered with the entire cosmos. More like a mixture of metaphors and folklore to reach the target audience.
Yes there are many ways to come at the question dudeonthasopha. Thanks for your input!
For me, I have always been iffy on the concept of rebirth. I mean, in Buddhism we are taught that karma is the law of cause and effect, but this somehow affects us at the stage of our next birth?
I find Zen to be a much better path for any skeptics out there
Yes Zen can work quite well.
When hiking last week, I inadvertently disturbed an ant mound. As hundreds of ants scurried about at my feet, the thought that each of them was once my mother or father, and that I myself probably was an ant many times over, according to the rebirth theory, jolted me to my core. Can all that be true ?
What do you think?
Doug's Dharma : I think both rebirth and karma are fallacies. Prof. Ian Anderson of Virginia U., after devoting 40 odd years to researching reincarnation, only suggested, in his twilight years, that the theory was, perhaps, true. And, he was not without critics unreservedly censorious of his suggestion.
Doug's Dharma : Erratum. It was Dr. Ian Stevenson who investigated reincarnation, not Ian Anderson, singer and flutist of Jethro Tull, a most mesmerising band.
Dr. Ian Stevenson. Typo. Not Ian Anderson, the flutist.
no
I don’t understand, how Buddha called that there is no permanent soul and at the same time talking about Rebirth?
Does this make sense?
(I know some of the theravada monks answer it but i am not satisfied, doug suggest me a video on the same topic)
Well as a secular practitioner myself I leave such questions aside. That said, I discussed some of these issues in several past videos such as this one: ua-cam.com/video/IaH3fLhO3Xc/v-deo.html
While cycles in nature you describe might denote some things generally reoccurring (moon, seasons, etc.), nothing actually reappears exactly in the same way physically - as you say. Plants might die and be reborn, but they are not the same plants. So the way that one views time might be dictated by how much one is attached to the physical or physically exact world. So, I may not die if my definition of myself is very loose. I think that this is similar to permanence and self. I am the same person today as I was yesterday if my definition of self is a bit loose. Living in this world and this society and not on a mountain top makes it particularly difficult to detach and not form a strong identity. So, isn't it then likely that a lot of the concepts of Buddhism like rebirth and no-self are inaccessible by somebody who is an active member of our society?
It's a good question Dusan. The Buddha seems to have felt it would be more difficult to grasp these ideas by living an ordinary householder life. But it isn't impossible.
Think conservation of energy, not created nor destroyed, no addition nor subtraction, just converted into other forms of energy. I always feel non-tangible and tangible world tend to emanate from the same principles as do mind vs energy (but I do not believe mind is a kind of energy). Only missing prove now is the nature of consciousness- is it merely an emergent property of the physical brain, or the brain is merely the vehicle whereby the mind manifest itself to the world? If it is the former, then nihilism holds true, if it is the latter, then perhaps rebirth can hold true?
Maybe so handy nas, thanks.
Perhaps difficulties in accepting rebirth arise from how we perceive our 'selves'
Possibly. For my own sake it arises from how I perceive causation.
If the ego dissolves at death, then what reincarnates?
Did a video on that topic: ua-cam.com/video/xjlBobj0iSA/v-deo.html
@@DougsDharma Thank you for responding. I watched the video and gleaned some things from it. Can you please tell me if I got it right?
1. Only some part or parts of our transitory self are reborn. if this is so, then, which parts?
2. You yourself leave this topic aside due to its speculative nature and are not sure whether we are or are not reborn.
3. I once heard Alan Watts say in one of his talks (and I'm going to paraphrase) that the real serious buddhist scholars know that the whole idea of reincarnation is just traditional folklore, designed to elicit good behavior from people. Can this be true?
There is the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. Particles are empty of existence and return to the probability cloud hints at nirvana without remainder.
I dunno Mael-Strom, I think QM and Buddhism are entirely different animals. Nirvana is essentially an ethical concept, having to do with the extinction of greed, hatred, and ignorance. Nirvana without remainder has to do with the cessation of clinging to future existence at the time of death.
@@DougsDharma I guess my position has borne fruition through the Mind Only Cha'n teachings of Bodhidharma which in my view are heavily influenced by Taoism. Two Mahayana sutras stand out in this respect ...the Diamond Sutra and the Heart Sutra which some historians claim were not taught by the historical Buddha at all. In any case these Mahayana sutras attracted my "bodhicitta" mind which is what attracted me to Zen in the first place. QM and Mahayana Buddhism is an interesting topic and one can detect similarities(my view), albeit the complicated mathematics. Albert Einstein was quoted as saying, "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." "Reality is condensed nothingness." Smacks of Quantum Sunyata to me! ...lol.
Yes, from a scholarly perspective those two suttas were certainly not taught by the historical Buddha: they were composed centuries after his death, and there is some recent debate as to whether the Heart Sutra was actually composed in China. That said, the teachings of all Buddhist schools are essentially ethical in their character: about how to live life best. Physics is descriptive. While there are resonances between modern physics and some aspects of Buddhist teachings, there are also some differences. The Buddha believed all matter was made up of four elements: earth, air, fire, and water. (With maybe space as the fifth). This bears no resemblance to modern physics.
@@DougsDharma Yes indeed, the teachings are ethical and then some. I suspect Siddhartha Gautama used a language that was suitable for his target audience and his students mental capacities of the era. I have sometimes wondered what if the Buddha used mathematics and calculus to describe the Dharmadhatu.
The conceptual visual of rain, I could see why it is formulate that way. From consciousness perspective the consciousness that returns does looks line rain falling down. Not a believe a personal experience.
Thanks Yeejtsim Lauj.
As per Hinduism what Karma you do in this life decides your species like human, animals etc. It is also believed recent human population is less ethical than previous. Of all species Human considered above of all. In that case human population should decrease but we are hitting all time high of 8 billion population. Rebirth is important to understand. What was the driving force to do good karma ? Was it better life in next birth ?
Hey dougs, if you need to understand the rebirth, you need to understand the dependent origination which is in deep dhamma. But even it seems like a simple theory and easily understandable, it is realy deep theory. Thats why the meditation is used to understand it. Because improved mind realy help to see and understand it from inside of somone. In buddhist time, a monk called ananda sayed to buddha " buddha, this theory is simple and i can easily understand". But buddha sayed "dont say that, it is realy deep. Long ago this was a raveled clew among gods and brahmas. Someones have gone to the hell due to wrong use of it". But it doesnt matter if you are going to dicover it. Also the buddha has sayed if you see the dependent origination, you see me. Becasuse whole dhamma is in this. When gouthama got the complete wisdom, he congitated this dependent origination from start to the end, end to the start. If somone is fully capable of understanding and seeing it, he becomes a teacher to the world.
Thanks Darshana, I did a video on dependent origination awhile back: ua-cam.com/video/A2cDhGVgb9A/v-deo.html 🙂
Does Pure Land Buddhism envision an eternity of heaven like Christianity's? If so that would seem to say that it also has a linear view of time, at least on a per-person basis?
Good question Tim. I'm not entirely sure. I do intend at some point to do some investigation into Pure Land Buddhism, though the main focus of my channel is early Buddhism and Pure Land is quite late.
@@DougsDharma Please keep up your videos, they are very helpful. I've become a member on Patreon. : ^)
@@timnitz2654 Thanks so much!
I want videos on rebirth. And reincarnation , reflection.😊😊😊
I'd don't totally discount metempsychosis however as you have no memories of your former selves you might as well as be dead.I tend to think that the individual isn't reborn but the universal life spirit is so in a way there are no individuals.I am guessing that the individual, and it's memories,are reabsorbed back into the One.
Dear Mr. Doug, I am from India from last few months I am learning Tibetan Buddhism, and I also read Dr. Ambedkar's Buddha and his Dhamma, but now I am little bit confused that which philosophy I should believe and how should I move forward in the Dharma path.
While doing my job and day to day activities if I face any issue I apply antidote and tell myself this is because unpure midstream, previous bad karma, attachment ignorance etc and I am calming myself but after reading Dr. Ambedkar's book Navyana Buddhism and his scientific perspective, I became confused once again.
Kindly guide me on this, looking forward for your positive response
Yes thanks for the question sagar. The problem you’re having is that Buddhism has changed very much in the past several millennia, and so there are many different interpretations of what the Buddha said. I have my own opinions about what he said, and about what I myself believe, but telling you them may only confuse you further. What I suggest is that you leave your mind open to different interpretations and see which ones resonate with you, and lead most to the diminishing of greed, hatred, and delusion. Then go with those.
@@DougsDharma Thank you for the reply, you are really compassionate person, this is very good suggestion, I am also trying to do the same, I would like to attend your crash courses for more insight on Buddhism.
Bet you could make a fortune building faraday cage cots to avoid unwanted rebirths or possessions.
Ha! I'm not sure it is supposed to work by electromagnetic radiation ...
On the contrary, I think rebirth seems to be central to the Buddha's teachings; if all your sufferings end with death, then the central problem that the Buddha was trying to address would be gone. No unending karmic cycle to break out of, no need of practice towards enlightenment.
It is central to his mundane teaching on karma. Whether we feel that teaching is therefore fundamental to the supramundane teaching is a matter of perspective. To each their own.
@@DougsDharma but I am curious to know, what does the ancient texts say about the end goals of Buddhist training. According to conventional narratives, one trains to achieve buddha-hood. And it is thought that at this point one could then acquire a buddha's insight, and would thus be able to perceived the karmic relations and past lives directly. How true is this? Or will we always be in the dark on this issue. In many Buddhist discourses(mostly by monks) they seemed certain on this point, yet none could claim to have achieved such an insight. This seems to contradiction the normal understanding of progress in learning and training; at least for ordinary skills...
@@DougsDharmabut whats the point of everything is there is not continuity?
My intution says that when the body dies is all gone. Oblivion. Anihillation.
But that is sad and pointless way of understanding life and the universe.
Why should we bother in doing good or doing something if then will be all gone ?
Why some people born with luck (beauty, money, intelligence, good perosnality) and others with bad luck?
I m pretty sure oblivion is the true destiny of counsiussnes, but it is a depressive destiny.
So should we believe in rebirth...
Far be it for me to say what you should believe in, especially with such an esoteric topic as this.
@@DougsDharma wow I'm happy that u replied..😄 I like to hear you on Buddha and his teachings cause when u represent it...it sounds very wise and from each aspect ..
Nikita, Doug really is Wise ! Look how gently, peacefully and eloquently he talks. Anyway, my view is that we should not believe in rebirth because it leads to Victim Blaming. If a child is born with problems, a believer can just say 'He must have done something bad in a previous life'. If a person with very good morals who has done nothing very bad in his life gets killed in an accident, a believer might say the same thing : 'Oh the poor guy must have done something bad in a previous life'. We should not believe in Rebirth based Karma. We should believe in 'Naturalistic Karma'. Doug did a video on Karma in which he explained that Karma should be thought of as something 'Probabilistic'. If you do good, it is quite likely that good will be done to you. It's as simple as that 🙂
Isn't time a manmade construct? I thought there was only now coupled with our imagination.
It’s pretty complicated in fact! I have an earlier video about it in case you are interested: What is the Present Moment? ua-cam.com/video/ABQZpxOTqsg/v-deo.html
How is rebirth not just wishful thinking. The Buddha's philosophy can stand on its own without rebirth.
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"What is it that reincarnates ?" Excerpts from Dalaï Lama and neuroscientists @ mind and life 2016 on UA-cam.
Yes Jean-Philippe, this is the age-old question in Buddhism.
Hi Doug, what are your toughts on Jeffrey Hopkins's work please ? I am starting to read his book "Méditation on emptiness". Thank you !
Jeffrey Hopkins is a very good scholar of the later (Tibetan) material. My main focus is on early Buddhism.
@@DougsDharma Hi. Wonderful channel and talks. I am struggling with this question very much. It seems that there is and will never be a definite answer to this question since Buddha himself considered this question invalid and refused to provide a definitive answer. I admit. This is somewhat frustrating.
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Under the bodhi tree buddha saw his previous lives ...... infinite number of previous lives..... he clearly states that.....
Yes this is one of the forms of knowledge he says he had.
Dough u r expert in reading but not realising the deepness of the teachings of the buddha.... that's why u have doubts on the teachings......i suggest you to meditate on verse-1 of dhammapada , in this verse buddha is explaining the working of the entire life in the universe.
Yes I'm quite familiar with the first verse of the Dhammapada, thanks Wolverine.
Doug has indeed a quite Western, analytical approach. And I appreciate that because we in the West would have difficulty understanding the teaching if someone didn’t make a “translation” effort. Alan Watts did that very well. But at some point we need to let go and simply contemplate, meditate.
Christian views seem to conflict with the concept of compassion and forgiveness. I'm not certain on rebirth, yet the early Buddhist approach seems to be more logical. I'm in the right place 👍 thanks again for your talk on this topic.
You're very welcome Bill. Glad to have you here! 🙏
Karma and rebirth/reincarnation (as human or animals) are real. Why there are children born starving and struggling in africa for example, on the other side why theres man born as a prince/in rich family etc etc.. I believe one of the reasons are bcs of their past karmas. Karma works in this life as well as the before and after life~
Why sometimes things I nvr seen before at all are very familiar in a way to me? It maybe part of my under subconcious memory from past life.
I read somewhere from Scientific view.. there is a Research about past life which were actually recorded in part of our Brain. With more and more advanced technology who knows this can be explored more (I forgot where I read that so I cant talk further about this science and reincarnation).
So what is the most suffering/misery things in life from greatest perspective? Being born and born again~
If in this Life we can achieve englightenment and fulfill our karmas .. we may not being reincarnated again, but stayed in the afterlife/beyond
Thanks for your thoughts jjjb01. 🙏
Children are born and suffer in some parts of the world because they are being conceived in those parts of the world with scarcity of food. Why would you look for some kind of magical reason? As for me, I choose to interpret the teaching of rebirth in context of this life, it's more useful this way.
In my view, karma is a way to "blame the victim" and is an inherently cruel belief. It also makes the rich and powerful feel justified in their exploitation of others.
@@mgrycz I dont find any "magical reason" Why someone's being born as a prince , and some others born in poor countries etc.. Is just some example of how karma works which involve our past lifes~ ofc its not just 100% about karma.. It is much more complicated and beyond our mind/understanding... For in the end we know nothing about the mystery of the world. I just try to share some perspective esp from hinduism and buddhism
I feel that people like Buddha and Jesus tend to orient their message towards their target audience... Jesus taught similarly to Buddha, but preached about 1 god because his audience was the Jews... Buddha's primary audience believed in reincarnation, so he adopted that into his message
Well maybe so Moloch, but in both cases all the evidence is that they believed what they were teaching.
fundamentally the Buddha understands rebirth as a primitive person who cannot separate the imagination from spiritual reality in the way that we can like a **** video game. You talk to gods as artificial intelligence is running on your imagination that you finally received from art history, it's about as good as talking to a sock poppet, but try it. he experiences the rebirth like some kind of false memory psychotic episode. We understand rebirth from nietzche, It is a completely philosophical factoid that is utterly irrelevant to who we are as a person in this life it's something that we can reflect on intellectually the idea of an infinite past the relentlessness of eternity but the idea of identifying with those past lives is pretty socially dumb and it's not even very spiritually enlightening. The millennials say Yolo we know it is not really true but we in part thanks thanks to people like you. Just try to see me annihilated