Supermarine Seafire; The Great British Bodge Job

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 23 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 533

  • @benwilson6145
    @benwilson6145 Рік тому +105

    Winkle’ Brown described the Griffon-engined Seafire as “sheer magic”.

    • @gunner678
      @gunner678 Рік тому +12

      Exactly, the guru of test pilots!

    • @01Bouwhuis
      @01Bouwhuis Рік тому +22

      Now... winkle wasn't your average, combat fatigued pilot.

    • @geordiedog1749
      @geordiedog1749 Рік тому +32

      Winkle could land Concorde on a lifeboat.

    • @offshoretomorrow3346
      @offshoretomorrow3346 Рік тому +2

      Aaaah, what did he know!

    • @trooperdgb9722
      @trooperdgb9722 Рік тому +15

      @@01Bouwhuis Indeed. I think his comments on the more 'difficult" aircraft need to be viewed through the lens of his VAST experience (and incredible natural talent) Something HE described as "interesting" or (God Forbid) "challenging" might well have been "suicidal" for the average pilot.

  • @S2Sturges
    @S2Sturges Рік тому +12

    My father was a leading airman in the Royal Navy and did two tours of the Far East in the late 1940's to early 1950's on the HMS Warrior. The carrier was equipped with both Seafire and SeaFury aircraft, that as mentioned, didn't have a great track record .. My father left me two albums of photos of his tours, albeit on tiny two and a quarter by two and a quarter sized photos... Many showed Seafires strewn across the deck, tangled in ropes or hanging off the carrier decks, with my father's wry captions, like "ah, well// he's only learning (we hope..)" and such, photos of said aircraft either being chucked in to the ocean after being stripped , or in the bowels of the carrier or in Singapore or Hong Kong, ashore, and being rebuilt ... I sadly gave the albums to my older brother as I was in the midst of being a nomad and wanted to try and save them for some future generations, but thank you for the lively and interesting video!

  • @neiloflongbeck5705
    @neiloflongbeck5705 Рік тому +47

    You missed a major issue. Until mid-1939 the FAA was part of the RAF.

    • @catmandoodoo7903
      @catmandoodoo7903 Рік тому +5

      I get the feeling that history is in the process of repeating itself

    • @exF3-86
      @exF3-86 Рік тому +2

      Having watched the entire submission I believe that was acknowledged either directly or indirectly

    • @neiloflongbeck5705
      @neiloflongbeck5705 Рік тому +1

      @@exF3-86 no it wasn't.

    • @chonqmonk
      @chonqmonk Рік тому

      @@catmandoodoo7903 In what way?

    • @catmandoodoo7903
      @catmandoodoo7903 Рік тому

      @@chonqmonk the FAA is no more and the RAF are in control of the carrier based fighters. Also we appear to be completely unprepared for a future conflict.

  • @whyjnot420
    @whyjnot420 Рік тому +42

    Food for thought for anyone who usually thinks of bodge as synonymous with botch: Bodge does not need to be read as bad or botch or garbage or whatnot. It can also mean something that is rushed and inelegant, but still perfectly functional. More akin to the term 'jury rig'. (though jury rig implies on the spot improvisation, not something that is actually planned)

    • @davefloyd9443
      @davefloyd9443 Рік тому +11

      "An engineered solution to an unexpected problem"

    • @whyjnot420
      @whyjnot420 Рік тому +3

      @@davefloyd9443 But how many were actually done as a result of known but ignored problems? E.g. adding a gunpod to the F-4.

    • @davefloyd9443
      @davefloyd9443 Рік тому +3

      Not a problem when you've doctrinally committed to a2a missiles........ oh, wait. 😁

    • @Demun1649
      @Demun1649 Рік тому

      @@whyjnot420 What is an "F-4"? I don't recall the British ever building an aircraft called that.

    • @whyjnot420
      @whyjnot420 Рік тому +2

      @@Demun1649I don't recall saying they did... ffs

  • @philiphumphrey1548
    @philiphumphrey1548 Рік тому +53

    Great video. May father was a FAA mechanic during the war that worked on Seafires. He told me about one of the early ones with the counter rotating double propeller, pilots were warned to keep the rudder neutral during take off because there was no pull to one side. One pilot cut them off with "I know what I'm doing", and then proceeded to take off in a series of swerves.

  • @Ob1sdarkside
    @Ob1sdarkside Рік тому +18

    That flap bodge is a wonderful English garden shed fix

  • @joeperson4792
    @joeperson4792 Рік тому +30

    Putting wedges in the flaps just to make this thing take off and subsequent improvements tells a fine tale of dogged persistence. Inspiring.

    • @hammer1349
      @hammer1349 Рік тому

      When something needs doing, it gets done any way it needs to

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 4 місяці тому +1

      I'm not sure that that procedure was healthy for the flap locking mechanism. My father had trouble getting the flaps to lock back in the UP position after dropping the wedges. Not a happy situation when the rest of the Sqn is leaving you behind on your own over the Med. Hurricanes.

    • @joeperson4792
      @joeperson4792 4 місяці тому +1

      @@bobsakamanos4469 Best regards to your father for operating under trying circumstances, and coming back in one piece.

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 4 місяці тому +3

      @@joeperson4792 he made it to Hell Island (Malta) ok, then the horror began.

    • @joeperson4792
      @joeperson4792 4 місяці тому +1

      @@bobsakamanos4469 My mother was in on a Japanese bombing attack during 42, and she said the pilot flew so low she could see his squinting eyes. It sounds like your father landed at a similar event.

  • @avipatable
    @avipatable Рік тому +13

    One of my favourite autobiographies from WW2 is "They Gave Me a Seafire." cannot recommend it enough, Commander Crosley was a great pilot and writes a great book! Quite scathing of one or two of the Admirals (Admiral Vian!) he served under who viewed aircraft and pilots with disdain and never bothered to learn to understand how to use them through much of the war. The Seafires failure at Salerno was he said was caused by this attitude - the carriers were slow and short escort carriers, winds were calm and the result was that the seafire pilots had great difficulty in getting down onto the tiny deck with very little headwind. In the pacific the accident rate on the fast large fleet carriers was far more respectable.
    In addition his squadron devised the 3 way attack system of ground targets and had a far better loss rate than the Corsair squadrons they were working with. Very interesting book. Highly recommend.

    • @Julius_Hardware
      @Julius_Hardware Рік тому +1

      Agreed, fine book. IIRC the Salerno problems were largely due to operating Seafires off small (non-Fleet) carriers, where everything had a high crash rate. But the reputation stuck.

    • @avipatable
      @avipatable Рік тому +1

      @@Julius_Hardware Ah glad someone else has read and commented. It is great - analytical and insightful, yet great humour too. Yes you are right, I guess when you have Admiral's slagging them off people listen - justifiably or not!

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 9 місяців тому +1

      Well said !! There are too many media posts that are ill informed and regurgitate nothing but half truths. Certainly, the Seafire wasn't ideal but it was far better than the Sea Hurricane. Seafires in the Pacific were fitted with P-40 drop tanks which change aerodynamics and made landings much more manageable for the slippery Seafire. The Seafire III could outrun and out perform the Corsair under 10,000'.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      @@bobsakamanos4469 I have Morgan and Shacklady Spitfire the History and on page 582 it mentions wing tanks but not coming from P40s Inhouse design only

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 7 місяців тому

      @@jacktattis excess P-40 drop tanks (89 US gal) were acquired via horse trading for a case(s) of whiskey. HMS Implacable.

  • @martentrudeau6948
    @martentrudeau6948 Рік тому +52

    An amazing and very British Seafire story, make due and mend, make the Spit do what it was never intended to do, fix it, and modify it on the fly. And very high praise from Corky Meyer. Great video thanks Ed.

  • @simtalkayak
    @simtalkayak Рік тому +8

    A series on the Malta air war would be highly appreciated and interesting imo.

    • @garynew9637
      @garynew9637 Рік тому +1

      Good read called Faith, Hope and charity. Brilliant account.

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 9 місяців тому +1

      Malta was not a pleasant story before the Spitfires arrived. The Hurricanes were massacred by the LW.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 2 місяці тому

      @@bobsakamanos4469 Not what I read HA HA This is from Bill Gunston Combat Aircraft While operating from Merchant Ship Catapults and Carriers it took part in Countless fleet defence actions, the greatest being the defence of the August 42 Malta Convoy . When 70 Sea Hurricanes fought off more than 600 Axis attackers shooting down 39 for the loss of 7 and drove off the rest.
      That is how bloody bad it was you ignoramus

  • @KapiteinKrentebol
    @KapiteinKrentebol Рік тому +49

    13:08 The best way to land the Seafire on a carrier is with the landing gear retracted.

    • @Splattle101
      @Splattle101 Рік тому +11

      That was a fantastic landing, wasn't it? He dropped it really quickly before flaring it over the stern to level out and stall it just a couple of feet above the deck. Puckered sphincters all round, but jeez that could've been SOOOO much worse. He did a proper job of it.

    • @Flyingcircustailwheel
      @Flyingcircustailwheel Рік тому +5

      Hahahaha 😂😂😂😂. The jokes on these types of channels make me laugh way too hard lol.

    • @ianmcsherry5254
      @ianmcsherry5254 Рік тому +2

      Perhaps the inspiration for the post-war tests with wheels-up landings on a pneumatic deck. Something Eric Brown also flew. Of course.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      @@ianmcsherry5254 yES HE DID

    • @stephenconnolly3018
      @stephenconnolly3018 6 місяців тому

      Twit

  • @whtalt92
    @whtalt92 Рік тому +13

    Despite it's disadvantages, Seafires were kept in the BPF because compared to the USN fighters they had the best climb rate (if that was meant with 'fast'). That, combined with fighter control from the RN carriers, made them ideal for CAP over the carrier groups.

    • @jlvfr
      @jlvfr Рік тому +7

      Yep. People forget that the Spifire was mainly designed as a _bomber interceptor_ for home defense, at a time when radar either didn't exist or was just being set up. You have to climb _fast_ for such a mission; none of that leisure flying at sea! :D

    • @Philistine47
      @Philistine47 Рік тому +5

      The Seafire's high rate of climb made it great for deck-launched intercepts; but if you hung enough fuel on it to give it the endurance needed for the CAP mission (so the CVs weren't having to spend all their time cycling CAP fighters), the extra weight and drag cost it most of that advantage.

    • @jlvfr
      @jlvfr Рік тому +4

      @@Philistine47 but for those the RN had the Corsair and Hellcat.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому +1

      @@jlvfr Both of which had a slow climb rate and piss poor turn

    • @jlvfr
      @jlvfr 7 місяців тому +1

      @@jacktattis true, they were pure brute-force high speed fighters. Which is why the Seafire was a better interceptor/point defense CAPer: that stunning climb rate.

  • @bobsakamanos4469
    @bobsakamanos4469 9 місяців тому +4

    Good summary, hitting most of the key points. Glad you included Corky Meyer's comments on the Mk.III, and you nailed it regarding the obsolete Hurricane.

  • @ratofvengence
    @ratofvengence Рік тому +13

    I'm supposed to be writing teaching programs due tomorrow. And then you drop another vid.... ARRGH!
    I'll watch it tomorrow night. Love your work mate :)

    • @EdNashsMilitaryMatters
      @EdNashsMilitaryMatters  Рік тому +7

      Cheers! And the video will still be there tomorrow ;)

    • @ratofvengence
      @ratofvengence Рік тому +2

      @@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Finally got to it. Brilliant as always, thank you :)

  • @stay_at_home_astronaut
    @stay_at_home_astronaut Рік тому +15

    They must have had to rework the vertical stabilizer offset when switching from the Merlin (clockwise propellor rotation) to Griffin (anti-clockwise rotation). That is a non-trivial change for production tooling when building these birds.

    • @kidpagronprimsank05
      @kidpagronprimsank05 Рік тому +2

      They certainly were and with change to bubble canopy the tail also need change too. And, by that point, they start the to production of land based Griffon powered Spitfire already so it not big issue. The real issue was CG as carrier plane needed tail hook and some strengthen and most of this would mess the CG of the plane

  • @rogerkay8603
    @rogerkay8603 Рік тому +3

    The Fulmar outdid itself, thanks to some brave and skilful men

  • @FirstDagger
    @FirstDagger Рік тому +10

    We are inching ever closer to the inevitable Westland Wyvern episode. Which honestly I kinda dread, as I particularly like that type in a certain flight game.

  • @johnforsyth7987
    @johnforsyth7987 Рік тому +3

    Thank you for another very informative video. This video reminds of the saying "You go to war with that you have. Not what you want."

  • @BHuang92
    @BHuang92 Рік тому +23

    The British conversion of the Spitfire mirrors that of the German attempt to convert the Bf109 into a carrier fighter.

    • @13stalag13
      @13stalag13 Рік тому +2

      Yeah, the Fw-190 would have been a MUCH better choice.

    • @hatman4818
      @hatman4818 Рік тому +1

      @Ken Mrozak While I agree from a pilot safety, visibility, range, and aircraft recovery perspective, the FW-190 has its own downsides vs the BF-109.
      I doubt Germany was going to engineer either aircraft to have folding wings for better fighter capacity in their carrier, as doing so wouldn't be as cost efficient as just adapting the plane as is. The BF-109 was one of the smallest single seat fighters of the war, which means they could have packed a reasonable amount of them on a carrier, even without wing folding.
      Also, if you were going to try and reengineer the wings of eithet plane, the BF-109's is easier to modify (not just for wing folding, but also for inboard retracting landing gear if they really wanted to address that problem). This is because the BF-109 was designed from the get go to have wings that bolt onto the fuselage rather simply, to speed up the production process. So it wouldnt be hard to strip out the landing gear from the center wing box on the fuselage, replace it with wheel wells, and then install the landing gear in the wings instead as inward folding. It would make it a little harder to move BF-109 fuselages around the factory floor, but would address the core problem of the BF 109 as a naval fighter without much engineering effort.

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 8 місяців тому +2

      The difference being that Britain actually had functioning aircraft carriers.

    • @drewschumann1
      @drewschumann1 5 днів тому

      Both the spitfire and bf 109 were dead end concepts and much treasure was wasted on making them work because of emotional reasons

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 4 дні тому

      @@drewschumann1 And what was better in your opinion ?

  • @Pete-tq6in
    @Pete-tq6in Рік тому +1

    That arrested landing at 00:27 is a sublime bit of airmanship. To put a Seafire on the deck of a carrier with a partially extended undercarriage leg on one side and not even ding the prop is beyond remarkable. Naval aviators are truly the best of the best.

  • @jamesdalton2014
    @jamesdalton2014 Рік тому +22

    I've often wondered why no one considered using a Boulton-Paul Defiant as a naval fighter. It fell out of favour with the RAF after the Battle of Britain so, it could have been adapted for naval use without much resistance. It could have been offered in 2 versions: a two-seat variant without a turret and a single-seat version. I've researched the likely performance characteristics of these versions and they would have been better than anything until the later Seafires. It had wide landing gear, good armament and probably could have been modified for carrier use relatively easily. The curse of institutional inertia and lack of imagination strikes again.

    • @jamesricker3997
      @jamesricker3997 Рік тому +10

      The FAA had their own version, the Roc.
      It was worse than the Defiant and left a bad taste in their mouths.

    • @rokuth
      @rokuth Рік тому +1

      Didn't they do that with the Skua, and Roc? (Except for the single seater version...)

    • @jamesdalton2014
      @jamesdalton2014 Рік тому +4

      @@rokuth There is a lot to unpack in order to compare these aircraft; mostly because the Defiant versions that could have been used were just prototypes.
      The FAA chose the Roc over the Defiant but, when one examines their performance characteristics, it's clear the FAA didn't base their choice on which was the superior aircraft. The Roc weighed nearly 20 kgs more than the Defiant but, it's engine was more than 100 hp less powerful. This meant the Roc's top speed was 80 mph slower than the Defiant and it's cruising speed was 50 mph slower.
      The Defiant Mk.1 may have lost that edge once the airplane was modified for carrier use (strengthened landing gear, arrestor hook and folding wings) but, the Mk. 2 had a 1,280 hp engine that would have compensated for the additional weight. Given the continued development of the Merlin engine, later (hypothetical) marks of the Defiant would have been even more powerful. So, simply swapping the Defiant for the Roc would have led to a better outcome for the FAA over time.
      However, a much better case for the Defiant can be made by removing the turret and giving it forward-firing guns. The single-seat P.94 prototype weighed at least 1,000 lbs less (the purported weight of the turret) and was reported to have a top speed of 360 mph. This put it in the same class as the Spitfire, even if it wasn't as maneuverable. It would have beat the pants off anything the FAA had (or was even considering) at the time.
      A two-seat version (without a turret) would have made the Skua look third-rate but, to be fair, the Skua was really a dive bomber not a fighter. The Fairey Fulmar is a more accurate comparison and a turretless Defiant would likely have been the superior aircraft (based on likely power-to-weight ratios).
      As I said, the reasons for not choosing the Defiant had nothing to do with performance and everything to do with institutional bias and lack of imagination.
      (As an aside, based on the Skua and the Roc, one might be led to surmise that Navy men just prefer ugly birds!)

    • @rokuth
      @rokuth Рік тому +2

      @@jamesdalton2014 ; Wow! Thanks for the detailed response. Truly appreciate the time and effort you took. Does fill in a lot of blanks for me.

    • @darrenjpeters
      @darrenjpeters Рік тому +2

      Seriously? A Hurricane would have made far more sense than the ill conceived Defiant.

  • @gunner678
    @gunner678 Рік тому +4

    Great video, thoroughly enjoyed that. The illustrious Eric 'winkle' Brown has an interesting account of the Seafires and Sea Hurricanes. 👍

  • @marioacevedo5077
    @marioacevedo5077 Рік тому +5

    Great video. Always a pleasure to learn more about one of my favorite subjects, the aircraft of WW2,

  • @cjhenry41
    @cjhenry41 Рік тому +10

    Ed, perchance referring to the Buffalo as a high performance fighter was a tad charitable? Seeing it with the Zero reminded me of “which one is not like the other?” puzzle.😊

    • @EdNashsMilitaryMatters
      @EdNashsMilitaryMatters  Рік тому +5

      Lol indeed, but compared to the Skua, or even the Fulmar the F2A was a rocket ;D

    • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935
      @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Рік тому +4

      It was better than most realise, it was great for the Finns in the Winter War.

    • @LordNinja109
      @LordNinja109 Рік тому +1

      I think it was Gregory Boyington who viewed the F2A as an excellent aircraft that quickly went downhill when burdened with the weight that came with carrier operations. He considered the "improvements" of the F2A-3 over the F2A-2 to be the cause of its failure.
      The Finns did indeed make the most of it by stripping it of all carrier related modifications.

  • @spudskie3907
    @spudskie3907 Рік тому +3

    I had to look up the word "bodge" before watching the video. Now I can't wait to use it in a sentence!

  • @sealove79able
    @sealove79able Рік тому +4

    A great fantastic video about an aircraft I knew nothing about. Have a good one Mr.Ed.

  • @Liddledriver
    @Liddledriver Рік тому +4

    Observation was the primary emphasis dictated by the admiralty for fleet aircraft with the Barracuda being an excellent example. The air combat capability was secondary until it became essential to have aircraft that could protect the fleet. Sturtevent"s epic publication is a great resource. Also Mike Crosley"s book They Gave Me a Seafire is a must have book for. FAA fans,

  • @john_smithchiropractor3931
    @john_smithchiropractor3931 Рік тому

    Who needs a book when Ed provides a much better narration!

  • @johndavey72
    @johndavey72 Рік тому +5

    Excellent coverage Ed. I know quite a lot about all the varients but everydays a school day . As for purchasing any literature . Due to circumstances beyond my control l can hardly afford a tin of baked beans at present . I 'll know in a few weeks if l can keep the house !!!! .....you just never know what's around the corner !

  • @maxstoner5527
    @maxstoner5527 Рік тому +7

    Great title! This is a must watch ✌️🇦🇺 We had these? That’s awesome I wonder if any museums have 1 on display down under

    • @ratofvengence
      @ratofvengence Рік тому +2

      We had Spitfires, but no Seafires. By the time we got carriers, Sea Furies were the best piston naval fighter.

    • @russdority6295
      @russdority6295 Рік тому

      We only used them for flight deck training

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому

      ​@@russdority6295why would you train in something that was notoriously temperamentle but very much needed if not ever going to be using or flying them after anyhow, your comment makes no sence, in fact it makes you look rather silly or just blatantly a saltyphobe!, so which one is it?....

  • @billhanna2148
    @billhanna2148 Рік тому +2

    Thanks Ed another top shelf video made my day.

  • @paulhumphriesz4557
    @paulhumphriesz4557 Рік тому +2

    thanking you for revealing more information on this aircraft which My late farther flew whilst serving in the Fleet Air Arm I remember him telling me they added weights to the tail to keep it down whilst take off and landing. just wish I had spent more time with him discussing other Aircraft he flew like the "stringbag" or the sword fish and Mosquito and many other types.

  • @lhkraut
    @lhkraut Рік тому +1

    Another great video! I love the picture of the Mark XVII with the camera window behind the fuselage. 20:30

  • @davidrobinson4553
    @davidrobinson4553 Рік тому +2

    Very interesting Ed.Thank You.

  • @chonqmonk
    @chonqmonk Рік тому +15

    This is my first exposure to the word 'bodge.' I only recently learned the word, 'grotty.'

    • @owen368
      @owen368 Рік тому +1

      We have a weaith of ropey words phrases and sayings for the uninitiated.

    • @timhancock6626
      @timhancock6626 Рік тому

      Grotty almost certainly originated in Liverpool as a slang word for Grotesque. Quite when I don't know, but possibly in the 1950s.

    • @stevenlowe3026
      @stevenlowe3026 Рік тому

      @@timhancock6626 I first came across it in "A Hard Day's Night" when George Harrison uses it.

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому

      ​​​​​​@@timhancock6626grotty is used all over the UK!, its a reference to describing a smeggy home and its owner taken from the word Grotto then a upgrade to Grottbags with the She dweller of said such hovel....Normally consisting of a scruffy old grey haired lady wearing a house coat, with a rollie hanging out her mouth sliding about in her slippers and stinking of wee!....and quite ofternly will be found hording dozens of moggies!...

  • @ottovonbismarck2443
    @ottovonbismarck2443 Рік тому +1

    No need to talk about the quality of this video - just standard excellency. 👍😄
    What is that "payload" at 11:20 ? Looks like four mortar shells strapped to the belly.

    • @whtalt92
      @whtalt92 3 місяці тому

      Practice bombs - 10lb/11.5lb from the looks of it.
      They look similar to, and have the same flight behaviour as the standard British 250lb and 500lb GP Mk.IV/V bombs.
      The channel Our Own Devices has a vid on WW2 practice bombs.

  • @kenking1228
    @kenking1228 Рік тому +6

    No one ever mention the only Seafire ace of WW2 ,Sub Lt R(Dickie) Reynolds DSC AFC FAA,who was a member of 104 Sqn ( Cambridge)ADCC,later the ATC,I joined 104 Sqn in 1961 and retired as Sqn WO in Sept 2022, and had the pleasure of meeting Dickie in the late 80s,he retire as a Commander RNin the 70s!.

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 8 місяців тому +1

      What's a Sqn WO? WO1 ?

    • @kenking1228
      @kenking1228 8 місяців тому

      @@bobsakamanos4469 Yes!.

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 8 місяців тому +1

      @@kenking1228 My father was a WO1 MU test pilot. Then when he took his commission to P/O he went to the bottom of the pecking order.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 4 місяці тому

      @@bobsakamanos4469 Yes to go from King of the Shits to shit of the King is tough That is why many of my colleagues stayed as WOIs and did not take the Commission

  • @SimonWallwork
    @SimonWallwork Рік тому

    That's a great photo around 12:20. Never seen that before.

  • @acomingextinction
    @acomingextinction Рік тому +2

    Man, that's as blunt an initial assessment as I've heard from Ed. But not wrong, at all.

  • @Knuck_Knucks
    @Knuck_Knucks Рік тому +1

    This doc is F.A. ... eFFing Awsome! Thx Ed ! 🐿

  • @mustang5132
    @mustang5132 Рік тому +2

    Excellent video! I like this long form style

  • @HeliophobicRiverman
    @HeliophobicRiverman Рік тому +3

    Beautiful, potent, dangerous AF to its own users.

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому

      Bit like the P38 then or better still the corsair untill some nation was first to master it on carriers....

  • @linuschan39
    @linuschan39 Рік тому +4

    Great video, nice work Ed 👍

  • @DavidtheNorseman
    @DavidtheNorseman Рік тому

    Sounds like great credit goes to the pilots' dedication and skill and the training of the RN air arm.

  • @RichardGoth
    @RichardGoth Рік тому +1

    Great work Ed! I have David Browns book "The Seafire"...quite dated now but he was the first aircraft author I encountered who was a real Seafire fan

  • @wideyxyz2271
    @wideyxyz2271 Рік тому +2

    Great video as always. Some really great photos too.

  • @aceofhearts573
    @aceofhearts573 Рік тому +1

    Sad that the Supermarine Seafang never made it to the fleet

  • @covertops19Z
    @covertops19Z Рік тому

    What a fabulous Brief..Many Thanks... BRAVO ZULU 💯👍

  • @nomorebikes
    @nomorebikes Рік тому +1

    Ok... as an avid aviation enthusiast, especially of WW2 aircraft, I'm rather ashamed to admit I was not aware of the significant RAF involvement in the Pacific Theater. I'm a US Navy vet, my dad a Navy fighter pilot and my grandfather was a Navy B-24 pilot in the Pacific... thus, most of my reading entails development of American aircraft. For my UK brothers/sisters in arms, I offer my most sincere apology for my obvious naivety, but more deeply my gratitude for the blood, sweat and courage put forth by your finest. My glass in raised in your honor! Cheers!

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому

      Better late than never i suppose?, but the damage already done?, but thanks for the thought....you are certainly in the minorities.... Take care and same to you friend!..

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      RAF not in the Pacific but dominate in Burma RAAF active in Pacific The FAA with the BPF
      USN Admiral King a Brit hater did not want the R/N there and said that they must supply/ repair themselves So Australia ceased sending the USN rations and offered its Harbour , Manus Island and Rations to the R/N .
      There was another reason the R/N was over there They did not want the USN interfering with the Brits reclaiming their colonies.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      @@wor53lg50 Mate we were in it from the start Malaya Singapore where we goy done like a dinner 80000 to POW Camps Percival as well
      over in the Philippines 100000 beaten MacArthur runs away to Australia
      Repulse and Prince of Wales sunk off Malaya 10 Dec 1941 where was the USN from the Philippines? Peeing off to Australia
      Brits were in Burma Aussies in New Guinea We were fighting before the USMC were on the Canal

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 7 місяців тому

      @@jacktattis troll off commie woke leftoid,

  • @jlvfr
    @jlvfr Рік тому +20

    Ironic how the kamikaze helped so much to rescue the Seafire's reputation.

  • @mathewkelly9968
    @mathewkelly9968 Рік тому +2

    Amazing they made it work at all really

  • @manricobianchini5276
    @manricobianchini5276 Рік тому +3

    Hey Rex, hard to believe it could better the Corsair.

    • @paulbantick8266
      @paulbantick8266 Рік тому

      At certain altitudes it was faster than the Corsair. It was certainly more maneuverable.

    • @bobsakamanos4469
      @bobsakamanos4469 9 місяців тому

      Why? The Corsair was a brute; heavy with a very thick wing that would be a drag at low level. The Seafire III was definitely faster and more manouverable under 10,000' especially with the Merlin 55M optimized for that level.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      @@bobsakamanos4469 Even above 10000ft no Corsair could match it

  • @IntrospectorGeneral
    @IntrospectorGeneral Рік тому +1

    The Royal Australian Navy appears to have never operated Seafires but lists one land-based Spitfire in service as a "trainer". The Royal Australian Navy established its Fleet Air Arm in 1948, embarking Sea Furies on its first carrier in 1949. The Australian War Museum online collection has some 1951 footage of deck landing practice with their new aircraft (Furies and Fireflies) demonstrating "enthusiasm unmatched by skill".

  • @robbudden
    @robbudden Рік тому +2

    They gave me a Seafire by RM Crosley, is bar none one of the greatest books I have read. It is a must

  • @LV_CRAZY
    @LV_CRAZY Рік тому +11

    Would love to see a comparison between the 1945 Seafire and Bearcat. Thank you for the educational video!

    • @markriley7723
      @markriley7723 Рік тому

      ua-cam.com/video/9UDMQYmoin8/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Greg%27sAirplanesandAutomobiles

    • @avipatable
      @avipatable Рік тому +5

      Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles channel has done it - it his typical superb analysis!

    • @13stalag13
      @13stalag13 Рік тому

      Or the Bearcat and the Sea Fury.

    • @rokuth
      @rokuth Рік тому

      ​@@13stalag13
      ua-cam.com/video/kFGQyV0gY1A/v-deo.html

    • @avipatable
      @avipatable Рік тому +1

      @@13stalag13 Yup he has them as well - a series on "the super props"

  • @veryrevrufus
    @veryrevrufus Рік тому

    Great and balanced video.
    Your channel deserves far more subs. Hope you get them.

  • @pascalchauvet822
    @pascalchauvet822 13 днів тому

    For all of the flaws the seafire must have had, at least it had the capability of turning a carrier around. As featured in an article in the British magazine "Aeroplane Monthly" (don't ask me which issue though) on some post-war occasion they did just that, no tugboat being available the carrier's late-mark Griffon Seafires were positioned on the carrier deck and fired up in a way to turn it around in the harbour. I don't know how long it took them but apparently it worked.

  • @bearshrimp
    @bearshrimp Рік тому

    Another Great video, love your chanel ! So I have been watching the FAA videos and the 2 place requirement for navigators makes sense. My Grandfather was a pilot / navigator on fleet scout floatplanes in teg 1930's and they needed navigators too. How did the Americans and Japanese get away with single place naval fighters with 1000+ mile range? Over the Pacific how did they deal with not having a navigator in the 30's ?
    Disclaimer, my grandfather was a Swedish Flygvapnet pilot, and didn't fly for the FAA. The Swedish Navy used Flygvapnet aircrews in the 20's and 30's.

  • @Zorglub1966
    @Zorglub1966 Рік тому +1

    Hi! What a good surprise! Let's have a look!

  • @Franky46Boy
    @Franky46Boy Рік тому +1

    I did not hear of any strengthening of the landing gear.
    The landing gear of a Spitfire does look so 'fragile'.

  • @andrewmetcalfe9898
    @andrewmetcalfe9898 Рік тому +1

    Jeffrey Quill’s autobiography has some valuable information as to the development of the Seafire, especially the landing doctrine he effectively created - which for similar reasons was also used by the FAA for the Corsair (allowing it to be used as a carrier borne fighter before the USN). Quill was Supermarine’s chief test pilot and was seconded to the FAA with a rank of Lt. commander, serving on board numerous carriers for months as in effect an operational test pilot.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      No actually it was Eric Brown that had the most experience but the Admiralty wanted a pilot not trained in Deck landing and chose Quill

  • @ryanwulfsohn2563
    @ryanwulfsohn2563 Рік тому +1

    Do the Bristol Brigand and De Havilland Hornet, there is very little on UA-cam on either of these aircraft

  • @yes_head
    @yes_head Рік тому +2

    Nice video, Ed. I learned a new word today: bodge. 😆

  • @givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935

    The single stage supercharger without intercooling equipment Merlins were lighter and _shorter_ than the complex Spitfire IX 60 series engines and they made the early Seafires lighter and faster at low level and better balanced for landing.

  • @chuckp8705
    @chuckp8705 Рік тому +1

    At the 14:00 mark, the picture of the Seafire on deck has what looks like JATO type pod attached to the upper wing. Is that correct, or is that something else? Very good video. Very balanced an fair.

  • @BobSmith-dk8nw
    @BobSmith-dk8nw 8 місяців тому +1

    It is my understanding, that the Americans did Carrier Trials with P-51 Mustangs. It was decided to call the trials off before they killed someone as the Mustang was entirely to fragile for Carrier Operations - in the opinion of those testing it.
    .

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 4 місяці тому

      I think it was the high stall speed of the P51 94 mph I believe

  • @stephensowell9578
    @stephensowell9578 Рік тому +11

    Ed, have you produced a video on the Seafury? If not, will you consider one? Seafury has been very attractive to me, Yet I know little about it. Thank you for the Seafire video. Much was learned about the struggles to incorporate it into carrier-based operations.

    • @rokuth
      @rokuth Рік тому

      FYI :
      ua-cam.com/video/kFGQyV0gY1A/v-deo.html

    • @stevetournay6103
      @stevetournay6103 Рік тому +2

      Fury is my favourite too. Canadian here; our navy had ex-RN carriers for about twenty years after the war and had both the Seafire XV and Sea Fury FB.11 on strength, with the latter replacing the former. One Seafire and two Sea Furies survive in Canadian museums.

  • @matthewmoore5698
    @matthewmoore5698 Рік тому +1

    Your videos are always top drawer , been watching biggie and Tupac conspicuously videos all morning let’s say these vids don’t fly ( not very well ) it’s all on here ain’t it , keep up the stellar work !

  • @paulkirkland3263
    @paulkirkland3263 Рік тому

    One of your best videos. Thank you.

  • @johnjephcote7636
    @johnjephcote7636 Рік тому

    From the early lash-up to the contra prop Seafire 47 of 1949 shews just what an adaptable design the airframe was.

  • @keiranallcott1515
    @keiranallcott1515 Рік тому +9

    Well done ed ,great video , I wonder if the hawker typhoon would have being a better carrier aircraft
    I am fully aware that some carriers during the Sicily campaign actually ran out of props for the Seafire !

    • @KapiteinKrentebol
      @KapiteinKrentebol Рік тому

      Maybe with the Centaurus engine, the Sabre engine was a maintenance hog and prone to catch fire on startup.
      At least the Seafire had the reliable Merlin, in all other respects it was less than stellar for carrier use.

    • @blackenedmagic888
      @blackenedmagic888 Рік тому +1

      @@KapiteinKrentebol The ease of maintenance and the ability to take battle damage are two of the big reasons why the US Navy and the Imperial Japanese Navy preferred to use radial engines over liquid-cooled engines.

    • @keiranallcott1515
      @keiranallcott1515 Рік тому +1

      @@blackenedmagic888 I fully agree with that.

  • @jamesfisher4326
    @jamesfisher4326 Рік тому +3

    Report I've seen indicated that the Seafire had poor landing characteristics on a carrier. It tended to float rather than set down. Of course in intense carrier use it wasn't up to the pounding.

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      Eric Brown in Wings of the Navy gives 19 pages to the Seafire and only 12 to the Corsair. I wonder why?

  • @louwvandermerwe178
    @louwvandermerwe178 9 місяців тому

    Amazing colour footage

  • @nickdanger3802
    @nickdanger3802 Рік тому +2

    1940 Britain had Wildcats before the US Navy when French contracts were "transferred" to Britain.
    1941 December HMS Audacity sunk with four "Martlets".
    1942 June Brewster Buffalos made up 3/4 of the fighters on Midway Island.

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому

      Here's PRICKDANGLER with his noncence - icle spam again! , written as to pretend to be in the know and intelligent?😂, ole TRACTOR and BIGTITTY must be still in bed, or the troll line not connecting!!!........Asking for some braindeads......

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      Gee thanks for that Nick and Brown was on the Audacity when she sank

  • @colinmartin2921
    @colinmartin2921 Рік тому +5

    It would have helped if the FAA had not insisted that carrier-borne fighters had to be cumbersome two seaters, right up to the Fairey Firefly, which could have been a pretty good fighter.

    • @jaiell2049
      @jaiell2049 Рік тому

      I remember seeing a presumably photos hopped single seat Firefly V, and it looked fine

  • @starpilot101
    @starpilot101 Рік тому +1

    The firefly was one of the rare good WW2 British naval fighters. Very good armament, decent turning ability and excellent low speed handling - crucial for carrier landings. The extra size (for the navigator) is a drawback, should have been a gunner instead like on American helldivers.

  • @ProjectFlashlight612
    @ProjectFlashlight612 Рік тому +1

    Lash up it may have been, but there were still Seafires in Royal Navy reserve units when Ticket To Ride was #1 in the charts. Nuff said.

    • @andrewoliver8930
      @andrewoliver8930 Рік тому +1

      We had steam trains when Japan had the bullet train.

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому

      The mallard was the fastest steam locomotive in the world and thats ever been...

  • @thearisen7301
    @thearisen7301 Рік тому +1

    Which Corsair & Hellcat variant was supposedly slower than a Seafire?

    • @coreyandnathanielchartier3749
      @coreyandnathanielchartier3749 Рік тому

      Only the ones carrying more fuel, ammo, armor than the Seafire and built tough (heavy) to withstand carrier operations. I believe the F4U-5 could pretty much smoke anything in the air at most any altitude, the F2G series was capable of almost 400 mph at sea level.

  • @stevethomas4310
    @stevethomas4310 Рік тому +1

    Great video. Thanks very much for the effort you obviously put into the research.

  • @robertbalazslorincz8218
    @robertbalazslorincz8218 Рік тому +1

    When your Seafire Mk. III sniffs some of that good ol' P-40 droptanks:
    *insert Sabaton - Metal Crüe but sung with a British accent here*

    • @jacktattis
      @jacktattis 7 місяців тому

      Nothing in Morgan and Shacklady about the P40 tanks . I just went to have a look and the Brits were usually very correct when they used another nations products

  • @alexanderlawson1649
    @alexanderlawson1649 Рік тому

    Very interesting, I do enjoy you're excellent presentations.

  • @johndell3642
    @johndell3642 Рік тому +2

    Another good video Ed - However I think you rather overplay the "nasty Air Ministry and RAF" card! - There are minutes of meetings where the Air Ministry try to talk the Admiralty out of carrying on with the orders for the Roc and adopt something more suitable. It was the Admiralty who had a thing about not accepting aircraft ordered for the RAF, preferring to have them designed specifically for the Navy. Indeed, RN doctrine did not see a need for single-seat fighters, thinking that the fleet should defend itself with AA fire alone. The "Sea Gladiators" were only taken on because the delivery of Rocs was behind schedule and the Gladiator production line was still going. Supermarine actually designed a beefed-up folding-wing variant of the Spitfire - The Type 338 - as early as 1939. - The First Sea Lord turned down the project - that was Winston Churchill! - The chapters on the Seafire in Morgan and Shacklady's massive tome "Spitfire-The History" cover this well.

  • @Sonofdonald2024
    @Sonofdonald2024 Рік тому

    Cheers Ed.Another top video

  • @geordiedog1749
    @geordiedog1749 Рік тому +2

    Can anyone confirm the existence of a British gull winged naval interceptor plan circa 1940? I’m sure I saw one recently on a video but I can’t remember where). It was basically a very close copy of the Spit but heavily navalised.

    • @EdNashsMilitaryMatters
      @EdNashsMilitaryMatters  Рік тому +2

      Drachinfell did a video talking to the author of the book I recommend, he talks a bit about it, you should be able to find it on YT.
      He does a fair bit in the book about that aircraft, but I figured I had enough just covering the standard seafire without getting even more into the weeds.
      Hope this helps.

    • @geordiedog1749
      @geordiedog1749 Рік тому +1

      @@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Armoired Carriers is the place to go. Can’t recommend his channel high enough. Nearly as good as yours, Ed:)

    • @wor53lg50
      @wor53lg50 Рік тому +1

      The vultare was ment to be a carrier dive bomber.. I think...

  • @williamprince1114
    @williamprince1114 Рік тому +2

    I have often wondered if the creative minds that turned the spitfire into the Seafire could have turned the P40 Warhawk into a P40 Seahawk for use off jeep carriers to stymie UBoats and raiders. The P40 had a reputation as a decent ground support aircraft, gave good performance at low level as a fighter, and operated well from rough runways. Strengths that would apply to carrier borne craft. But as is so often the case …. by the time you knew what you needed, the time to build it had passed.

  • @iskandartaib
    @iskandartaib Рік тому

    They devised a "bodge" to give the Spitfire a takeoff flap setting - a block of wood that fit between the flap and the wing. Lower the flap, insert block, raise the flap. In the air, lowering the flaps would allow the blocks to fall away and the flaps could then be raised. They did this on the ferry missions to supply Malta with Spitfires, where they launched the Spitfires off carriers some distance short of Malta. Don't know if they used this same trick on actual Seafires.

  • @jaws666
    @jaws666 Рік тому

    Going to watch this in full later today when im in work...hope mention is made of the Irish Air Corps use of it.

    • @EdNashsMilitaryMatters
      @EdNashsMilitaryMatters  Рік тому +3

      They get a brief mention :)

    • @jaws666
      @jaws666 Рік тому

      ​​@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters a video on the Spitfire Tr Mk9 two seater would be awesome.....an often forgotten variant.

  • @robertsansone1680
    @robertsansone1680 Рік тому

    Very excellent & interesting. Thank You

  • @louwvandermerwe178
    @louwvandermerwe178 9 місяців тому

    47 makes the design even better!

  • @martinhowell3475
    @martinhowell3475 Рік тому +3

    The word you are looking for Ed is "modify" not bodge, cheers for the video.

  • @peterhughes7099
    @peterhughes7099 Рік тому +2

    I know it's not british, but is there any chance you could do a video on the Corsair in FAA service?

    • @EdNashsMilitaryMatters
      @EdNashsMilitaryMatters  Рік тому +2

      I do want to do something on that, as the FAA played an important part in proving the type.

  • @rovercoupe7104
    @rovercoupe7104 Рік тому

    Brilliant. Thank you. M.

  • @theodorsebastian4272
    @theodorsebastian4272 Рік тому +6

    Gloster F5 and Miles fighter would have been an ideal fighter for carrier conversion,Another missed opportunity by the British I guess.

    • @superjuca55
      @superjuca55 Рік тому +2

      Gloster F5, Vickers Venom and Bristol Type 146, all 3 radial air cooled, all metal monoplanes that at least according to wikipedia were pretty competent designs. All they needed was more powerfull engines (Bristol Hercules) and they could have had 'british zeros'.

  • @raymondyee2008
    @raymondyee2008 Рік тому +2

    That’s the problem with the Seafire; the landing gear cannot handle carrier deck operations where rough going is the norm on landing.
    On the other hand, they proved dangerous to Japanese Kamikazes over Okinawa when assigned to the British Pacific Fleet.

  • @rancidschannel3206
    @rancidschannel3206 Рік тому

    Really enjoyed this

  • @treyriver5676
    @treyriver5676 14 днів тому

    Thankfully ..Wildcat, Hellcat and Courser were on the way.

  • @jamesbugbee9026
    @jamesbugbee9026 Рік тому

    Wonder what FX emerged from use of a stinger hook on that last Seafire

  • @kevkfz5226
    @kevkfz5226 Рік тому

    Great video Ed

  • @eze8970
    @eze8970 Рік тому

    TY .🙏🙏

  • @craigwoodhouse3813
    @craigwoodhouse3813 Рік тому

    So after watching this video I've had a thought why did no one ever think of doing a naval version of the p-51? If this was ever put forward could people let me know as I can't think of any major reason why it couldn't have been done but again I'm not 100% certain so if you have any information on this idea please let me know