Ed, this video is a textbook example of why your channel is so good: a relatively obscure subject, really objectively covered, no stone left unturned and a fair-minded, informative verdict delivered. The Albacore deserves a far more sympathetic appraisal than she normally gets.
Brilliant reappraisal of a sadly neglected aircraft Ed! The Albacore should also be remembered for its use over Dunkirk where a raid by 10 Albacores and 9 Skuas on the 31st of May 1940 blunted a German attack over the Nieuport canal. Another early action involving the Albacore was on the 21st June 1940 when three Albacores were shot down over the Island of Texel after attacking German airfields in Holland. But the Germans lost one Bf109 and another two damaged to the return fire of the Albacore gunners in the process. One of the pilots of the Albacores lost that day was Peter Butterworth, who spent the rest of the war in German prison camps, although he was involved in a couple of Escape attempts. After the war, he would become an actor, best remembered for his many roles in "Carry On" films.
Greg Baughen pointed out that slow aircraft like biplanes did good service in France in 1940 when they didn't stray too far over the front line, especially when the front was fluid and German AA cover was patchy. There was even a suggestion in 1943 to revive production of the Henschel 123.
My Father flew the Albacore in English Channel operations in 1944 against German shipping. His final operations were based from the Belgium coast in December 1944.
The Swordfish relies on her Peggy The modified Taurus ain't sound So the Swordfish flies off on her mission While the Albacore stays on the ground Bring back, bring back, Bring back my stringbag to me.
A lot of early war equipment gets a bad press. But it was what we had and (if used properly) they could do the job and hold the line till better kit got issued. Brave men, well led will always make a difference - although good equipment can help enormously of course.
Splendid! The role and huge potential of radar equipped Albacores in the Med and in the Indian ocean also must be remembered. This gave the FAA a unique night attack capability, which was utilised well in the Med and with a little different circumstances also could have played a major role in the Indian Ocean in spring of 42.
Brilliant - I was always mystified why the Albacore wasn’t used in the ASW role in some tough places leaving crews frozen and struggling to catch up with carriers. I do think the Albacore was the better plane and would have made a better platform so finally I have an answer.
Thank you! I've been telling people for decades that the Blackburn production line was the reason the Swordfish outlived the Albacore - and I suspect there could be political reasons why troubled Blackburn were shored up during such desperate times. Did you know that the final mark of the Swordfish also had an enclosed cockpit, never seem to see pix of that.
Fascinating coverage, Ed. Your summary is spot on, relevant to how many legendary beliefs are more nuisance in the cold light of facts. The bravery of the pilots on both sides should also never be forgotten., especially in the backdrop of poorly formulated attack strategies, again on both sides, by leaders in comfortable rooms remote from the action
Ed's coverage of the Kirkenes raid shows starkly how brave crews lives were frittered by politicians on the altar of expediency to 'make a point'. [Some things never seem to change much]
Very well done! Thanks for a balance, thoughtful review. I've always thought that the Albacore was better than most histories suggested, but that wartime circumstances somehow favored the more primitive Swordfish.
Thanks very much for your very kind words. Greatly appreciated. And I appreciate the candor of your assessments. Credit where credit is due. Criticism where criticism is due.
Yup. Albacores flying off of HMS Formidable used 'American looking markings'. It's not really surprising that 'white star rondel' became a generic Allied recognition symbol by the end of the war.
As you say Ed . The forgotten hero ..... l was aware of this very underrated and very able aircraft . But nowhere as detailed as your impeccable coverage . And yes , l have seen this at Yeovilton a number of times . I will view this aircraft with a new admiration the next time l visit Yeovilton . Thankyou Ed.
Great Video. Thank you so much for covering this aircraft. Love ww2 era aviation aircraft but I have to admit...I had never heard of the Albacore. Thank you once again for this video. Great work!!!
Many thanks, Ed! I have long wondered why the Albacore was taken out of service before the swordfish. Shame they didnt ask Blackburn to make Albacores!. I'm also puzzled as to why the Barracuda was ordered when there was so little of the German fleet left, the Americans were vastly overpowering Japan. The Albacore was fine - and from what you've explained - better than the sw3ordfish in all but one aspect - the gap bet6ween its ubercarriage legs, To me, the obvious answer would be to modify some Albacores to allow ASW radar to be fitted.. Finally, jets. Jets were clearly going to dominate military aircraft design post war, and the Albacore was doing a grand job for the FAA, so why not just build more Albacores, and then work up specs for an Albacore replacement after the war's ebd? As for Churchill - a great wartime leader of our nation he was (mostly), but it seems that every time he poked his nose into military matters, the result was a disaster! It seems a tad unfair to me that whilst Hitler and Stalin rightly get criticised for theit decidedly unhelpful interferebces with their own military, Churchill seldom does.
Blackburn built Swordfish because , already in production, it was easier and cheaper as Ed Nash explains. The contributions of the Albacore at Matapan are important as the Bismarck attack. Jet powered torpedo planes? Your comments about Churchill are valid but remember that history is written by the victors.
When I first came across the Albacore I had wondered why they had just enclosed the cockpit. It was not until I looked into its history I realised that there was more to it and its reputation was not deserved. Taranto may have had a bigger impact if the second carrier had been available as was supposed to happen. One or two more of the larger warships damaged or sunk would have made it harder to make a show of force.
At last, someone who can deliver an interesting and informative narrative. Excellent narrative with clear diction, way above the standards of many videos. Well done Ed.
The big difference for notoriety could be put down to the movie, 'Sink the Bismark' which projected the underdog role of the Swordfish into common culture. Had they made a movie about Matapan it might have been different - both aircraft and in particular the crews were magnificent. Love your videos Ed👍
I missed your posts! Hope you had a great holiday season, and I wish you and those you care about, all the best for the New Year! Thank you so much for all your work.
I hadn't seen them before with US star insignia. Seems it was for Op Torch to make US forces less likely to shoot them down in confusion for Vichy French. Learn something every day.
I've long thought this would make the perfect warbird today. Slow, small field performance, unusual looks, compact for hangarage, 3 seats... what's not to like?
Thanks for another very informative video! My curiousity has been raised though by the footage of Albacores in US markings. Is there another story to be told there?
I am guessing in the Pacific theatre, the red in a UK roundel could be confused with a Japanese Rising Sun, as with the red circle in the US Star and Bar. Later the FAA in the British Pacific Fleet would for similar reasons have a blue and white roundel, with blue and white bars. Though the footage you noticed might be from operations against Vichy French, so Allied aircraft for this standardized on the US markings due to the Vichy possibility using their own roundel.
The US markings were applied for the Torch invasion of French North Africa. The theory was that the French would be more liable to shoot at the British after Mers el Kebir. The ruse didn't work well. The French shot at everybody!
Well done Ed, this is deserved of a "Forgotten Aircraft" episode. History is written by the winners, and their propaganda lives on. So given the British "underdog" theme, it's not surprising that the Swordfish was immortalised, especially since the improvement was only incremental. But yeah, AC does give us pilots' perspectives on flying each. Cheers!
Being obsolescent for an intended purpose didn't preclude being adequate for secondary purposes (thereby freeing up newer planes or ships for frontline use). The B-18 Bolo was obsolete, but usable early in the war for anti-submarine patrolling, when better airplanes were in short supply and needed in combat theaters. US Omaha class light cruisers were obsolescent, but well suited for anti-raider patrolling and rescue of U-boat sinking survivors in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. US Wickes and Clemson class destroyers were obsolescent at the start of WW2, but usable for convoy duty, and eventually many were converted to secondary roles as fast transports, minesweepers, and such (I wonder if RN V and W class destroyers had similar careers). Re-purposed Swordfish likely allowed more capable airplanes to be used in roles that require those greater capabilities.
Interesting you mentioned the Devastator - proof that the number of wings is no indicator of service life. Worth remembering the zones the FAA concentrated on for their carrier aircraft - North Atlantic (no enemy fighter), North Sea (partially covered by the RAF) and Mediterranean (where the Italians still used biplane fighters - so a biplane with STOL and long endurance isn't such a bad idea. The British and the French still used slow prop planes (Gannet and Alize) into the 80s for the same roles, though they had better attack planes to do the dangerous work by then.
One factor rarely considered and never quantified for naval aircraft is the incidence of decklanding accidents and the ability to get the crew (the most valuable equipment) home in all weathers. I believe this was a strength of the Stringbag and possibly the Albacore (apparently not the Barracuda). Did this make the Stringbag a better fit for the Escorts Carriers? I also note that the Stringbag was used for CAP on the Artic Convoys (when bad weather prevented) Martlets from flying which adds another string to their bow. (British Escort Carriers Angus Konstam) As you say Ed A long shadow, thank you, for illuminating the Albacore as a worthy aircraft.
The actor Peter Butterworth (best known for the Carry On films) was the pilot in an Albacore that was shot down in the raid on De Kooy and Den Helder on 21-22 June 1940 in which the Observer Sub Lt Dyke was KIA. He and his Air Gunner Leading Airman Jackson were taken POW. Later on in the war Lt Butterworth was held in Stalag Luft III and was one of the POWs involved in the Wooden Horse escape - not an escapee but one of the vaulters. Ironically when the film was made of that escape, he wasn't deemed to look heroic enough to act in it.
Considering the Fairey Albacore was supposed to be a stop gap between the retirement of the Fairey Swordfish in 1939 and the introduction the Fairey Barracuda in 1941 as the British Empire was building for a war to begin in 1942 not 1939
I have looked at the original specifications (M7/36 and the later 41/36) that lead to the Fairey Albacore's design and it's interesting that the Air Ministry issued two specifications, one for a Torpedo Spotter Reconnaissance aircraft (T.S.R specification M7/36) and the other for a Dive Bomber Reconnaissance Aircraft (D.B.R specification o.8/36), with the idea that one of the two specifications would produce an update monoplane design for the FAA. Fairey had been chosen to exclusively tender designs for the Dive Bomber Reconnaissance aircraft. However, the company felt it could not produce a satisfactory aircraft for the specification. This led to the two specifications being merged into one as it was determined that an aircaft designed to the T.S.R. role could also carry out dive bombing. Once the two specifications had been amalgamated, the admiralty expressed a desire for a biplane as the FAA had little to no experience flying monoplanes. The Admiralty wanted the new aircraft as quickly as possible to replace both the Blackburn Shark and Fairey Swordfish, which was deemed to become obsolete by 1940.
Eric Winkle brown wrote that the Swordfish rivalled the Tiger Moth for ease of flying, and would almost land itself on a carrier. Thus any other plane would feel heavy...
Thanks for the explanation on doctrine/design choices for the FAA. Their various oddly-shaped aircraft always puzzled me. It was clear just looking at them they weren't trying to do what the Americans and Japanese were doing, despite the Brits having the tech to do so. I never understood why until now. Their entire carrier force was just a better form of catapult-launched spotter from their point of view. (doctrinally, not in employment)
A lot of It stems from the decision to assign all aircraft to the RAF, which meant that there was no Fleet Air Arm for most of the interwar period, no naval aviators and no realistic appreciation of the potential of air power within the Admiralty. The result? Unrealistic doctrine, marginal aircraft, and an entire fleet of ships with minimal or marginal AA defenses.
It's too bad the swordfish was better, though I'd imagine the albacore would be a bit more comfortable than the swordfish while flying in the North Atlantic with an enclosed cockpit
Hey Ed, have you ever heard of a south African project known as the bomb cart? One of my coworkers had something to do with it, and upon researching it a bit, it seems to be a COIN aircaft that looks like a baby A-10, made from bits of BAC Jet Provost
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters I've managed to find a pair of proposed layout drawings on secret projects forums, and that's about it. My coworker tells me they tested the aerodynamics with an RC miniature version
Ed, that's an interesting shot at time stop 10:37, with what must be a Seafire nestling at the back of the crowd of Albacores. It would be enlightening to identify the ship and the date.
Given you can't know in advance what missions you will be tasked to undertake Who is going to chose the Stringbag Swordfish (the hypothermic option) or the warm, if slightly control heavy Applecore? And neither would I But note - *There is a beautiful Swordfish which FLIES at Shuttleworth (Bedfordshire) on display days* (& loads of other iconic stuff)
Are there any pictures of an Albacore in monoplane form even of only in plan form? It would be really interesting to see exactly what it would have looked like, especially in comparison to my own pictures of a monoplane variant of the Albacore that I edited in Windows Paint using common sense to come up with a probable design, if not then a definite design form. Considering the circumstances of the times and the need to save materials and funds then Fairey would have probably reused as many parts from other planes so as not to waste time making new jigs which would use up extra materials and funds when jigs already exist for other planes in production. Looking at the other Fairey aircraft of the time I could only see the Fulmar as using wings that were suitable for use on the Albacore being a low wing design and so I replaced the biplane wings with the single wing of the Fulmar along with the undercarriage of the Fulmar and it looks very much like a Mitsubishi A6M Zero but the engine looks tiny in comparison so I made a duplicate with a larger power plant which would have required a larger propeller and so bigger undercarriage and arrestor hook. I then went and edited again for a third variant which was a single seat model with a tear drop canopy, I think on paper albeit digitally speaking the imagination can look upon the monoplane designs quite favourably and although it would have possibly have been much better than the biplane imho, it probably would still have been a poor performer.
You're quite right about the traditional narrative: the Albacore is only mentioned, then we're told that the T.S.R.II outlasted it and nothing about what the Albacore did. There's still no way to call it a success, but it's another example of a failure caused by specification and doctrine, not the actual design and construction, like the Defiant and the Battle. It's kind of entertaining that the Swordfish stayed in production because Blackburn had been given it, presumably so they could have some experience of building an aircraft that was good looking and effective (relatively).
"I Thought" as per my memory of this age, these Men, and their Machines? Albacore Was it was Much Loved for Gorila or Resistance Use? as I recall she had good STOL abilities, short landing and take off? as I remember told me? but I can Not recall what the Canadians, or Americans, named Her?
So the TL:DR boils down to British: The Swordfish is good, but can you make us a better one? Fairey: Sure, we've got a modern design that can replace it and bring the FAA up to the standard of its peers. British: NO! Just make the Swordfish better. Fairey. Ok, if you say so. *makes the Albacore* British: What the heck is this? This sucks! We can't even carry out poorly planned and executed operations. Fairey:... British:... You suck! Fairey: History is not going to be kind to us is it. History: No. No we will not. Fairey: *sigh *
I'm afraid that, as a practical matter, I just don't see a lot of daylight in between "this aircraft was obsolete before it first flew because it was poorly designed" and "this aircraft was obsolete before it first flew because it was designed in response to an obsolete specification, which in turn was crafted due to an obsolete doctrine." The Swordfish was already very much obsolescent by 1937, with the emergence of the TBD and B5N in the US and Japan respectively; specifying its replacement type as "that, but with a heater" really shows how little the RN (and the RAF for that matter) cared about, or even _thought_ about, the FAA in the 1930s.
I think a lot of the people who talk ill of the Albacore these days because it was only 'mildly' better than the Swordfish in performance only look at the Wikipedia stats and don't think about crew comfort the more modern design offered for naval operations.
Hi, great video. I do have a question, any further info on the albacore shown on the flight deck with British tail markings but an apparent US star on the fuselage. Keep up the great work.
It's a bit unfair the criticism, I can see the reasoning,the Fleet Air arm had a very successful aircraft in the swordfish, so make a more modern enclosed cockpit version that should be better
@ 8.30 - noooo not that myth again. Suffice to say, the Japanese took it as confirmation that what they were already planning way before Taranto would work.
Poor Applecores. Nice to see your defence. I noticed the planned TB for the Graff Zeppelin looked very similar to the Applecores. Fiesler something? You have a video I think.
a great very interesting video and aircraft Mr.Ed as always. was this aircraft ever equipped with a radar?was it used in any other role than the torpedo attack.thank you have a good one.
iirc, while the Swordfish outlived the Albacore in Britain, the latter actually outlived its predecessor because it was used by the Canadians several years longer. Which makes sense - heated enclosed cockpit is a big deal in the cold north.
Very informative! one question though - why were there Albacores seen in this video that had stars painted on them, like they were in US service? For example at the 11min mark
Wondering why some of the aircraft featured carried the stars of the U S. Navy? Would be obvious enough, except still carry the British tail insignia, any ideas? Great vid as per, thanks foe sharing.
Toward the end, there appears some video of Albacores apparently in US markings. What's the story on that? The Wikipedia page doesn't include any in USN or USAAF service. Could they perhaps have been painted that way for Operation Torch?
Some of the file footage in this excellent report of the Albacore shows them with 1942 American markings. Were these being evaluated for American service or being flown operationally?
FAA aircraft flew in US markings during Operation Torch; the invasion of French North Africa. It was hoped that the Vichy French would be less likely to fire at Americans than the British.
8:41 “Fairey Fulmar fighter” is an oxymoron. They were only somewhat faster than the ponderous Ju 87 Stukas that were part of the Kirkenes raid response.
The Sea Otter was introduced to replace the Walrus and also failed to do so. Britain seems to be good at building aircraft that fail to replace the type whose role they are to take on.
@@stuartburton1167sorry, thinking of fabric, not wood. Escort carrier crews could do a lot more to keep them flying than they could do with all metal airframes. I don't know if the older engines might have been easier to work on as well but airframe maintenance is often talked about as the main reason for retaining the Swordfish. I suspect that the Swordfish's handling characteristics might have been popular on smaller carriers as well.
It seems strange that a biplane, the Albacore, with two wings. Would be replaced by a monoplane, the Barracuda, with sometimes , no wings! Thanks for the very informative video. I really appreciate your narration. Some productions have great content but are hard on the ears.
Ed, this video is a textbook example of why your channel is so good: a relatively obscure subject, really objectively covered, no stone left unturned and a fair-minded, informative verdict delivered.
The Albacore deserves a far more sympathetic appraisal than she normally gets.
Brilliant reappraisal of a sadly neglected aircraft Ed! The Albacore should also be remembered for its use over Dunkirk where a raid by 10 Albacores and 9 Skuas on the 31st of May 1940 blunted a German attack over the Nieuport canal. Another early action involving the Albacore was on the 21st June 1940 when three Albacores were shot down over the Island of Texel after attacking German airfields in Holland. But the Germans lost one Bf109 and another two damaged to the return fire of the Albacore gunners in the process. One of the pilots of the Albacores lost that day was Peter Butterworth, who spent the rest of the war in German prison camps, although he was involved in a couple of Escape attempts. After the war, he would become an actor, best remembered for his many roles in "Carry On" films.
Fascinating, thanks for sharing.
Very interesting, ever thought of setting up a channel, these sorts of aviation and interpersonal histories, including often little known actions?
@@grahambuckerfield4640 LOL I've told him him he should many times 😁
Greg Baughen pointed out that slow aircraft like biplanes did good service in France in 1940 when they didn't stray too far over the front line, especially when the front was fluid and German AA cover was patchy. There was even a suggestion in 1943 to revive production of the Henschel 123.
Good history note, nearly forgotten 😊
My Father flew the Albacore in English Channel operations in 1944 against German shipping. His final operations were based from the Belgium coast in December 1944.
Whenever I see photos of the Swordfish flying over the North Sea I start getting cold. I can't imagine an open cockpit in those conditions.
The Pilot's probably not too badly off right behind the motor
But the Nav & Air Gunner will be brass monkeys
I wonder if brass monkeys make good aircrew ?
The Swordfish relies on her Peggy
The modified Taurus ain't sound
So the Swordfish flies off on her mission
While the Albacore stays on the ground
Bring back, bring back,
Bring back my stringbag to me.
A lot of early war equipment gets a bad press. But it was what we had and (if used properly) they could do the job and hold the line till better kit got issued.
Brave men, well led will always make a difference
- although good equipment can help enormously of course.
Splendid! The role and huge potential of radar equipped Albacores in the Med and in the Indian ocean also must be remembered. This gave the FAA a unique night attack capability, which was utilised well in the Med and with a little different circumstances also could have played a major role in the Indian Ocean in spring of 42.
Brilliant - I was always mystified why the Albacore wasn’t used in the ASW role in some tough places leaving crews frozen and struggling to catch up with carriers. I do think the Albacore was the better plane and would have made a better platform so finally I have an answer.
Thank you! I've been telling people for decades that the Blackburn production line was the reason the Swordfish outlived the Albacore - and I suspect there could be political reasons why troubled Blackburn were shored up during such desperate times. Did you know that the final mark of the Swordfish also had an enclosed cockpit, never seem to see pix of that.
Apparently that was only done in Canada for pilot training due to the extreme cold.
Fascinating coverage, Ed. Your summary is spot on, relevant to how many legendary beliefs are more nuisance in the cold light of facts. The bravery of the pilots on both sides should also never be forgotten., especially in the backdrop of poorly formulated attack strategies, again on both sides, by leaders in comfortable rooms remote from the action
Ed's coverage of the Kirkenes raid shows starkly how brave crews lives were frittered by politicians on the altar of expediency to 'make a point'.
[Some things never seem to change much]
FWIW: It still somewhat amazes me that some _Stringbags_ -- an aircraft which I love -- were equipped with radar.
A _BIPLANE_ equipped with _RADAR._
Fascinating stuff as usual. It’s nice that you found some footage of aircraft operating with the white star roundels of the Operation Torch period.
Very well done! Thanks for a balance, thoughtful review.
I've always thought that the Albacore was better than most histories suggested, but that wartime circumstances somehow favored the more primitive Swordfish.
Thanks very much for your very kind words. Greatly appreciated. And I appreciate the candor of your assessments. Credit where credit is due. Criticism where criticism is due.
Your videos are excellent. I tell folks about them whenever I can.
Nice to see a 415 Sqn (RCAF) Albacore pictured, and really interesting to see an Albacore in US insignia (guessing Operation Torch?)...
Yup. Albacores flying off of HMS Formidable used 'American looking markings'. It's not really surprising that 'white star rondel' became a generic Allied recognition symbol by the end of the war.
As you say Ed . The forgotten hero ..... l was aware of this very underrated and very able aircraft . But nowhere as detailed as your impeccable coverage . And yes , l have seen this at Yeovilton a number of times . I will view this aircraft with a new admiration the next time l visit Yeovilton . Thankyou Ed.
thanks for giving Armoured Carriers a shout out.
like your channel, I have been following that one since it first showed up in my feed.
Great Video... Thank you ! (Have you done one on that magnificent horror called the "Barracuda"? I would love to see that
Great Video. Thank you so much for covering this aircraft. Love ww2 era aviation aircraft but I have to admit...I had never heard of the Albacore. Thank you once again for this video. Great work!!!
You're very welcome 😁
Never heard of he Fairey Albacore before, but what a good looking biplane it was/is.
Many thanks, Ed! I have long wondered why the Albacore was taken out of service before the swordfish. Shame they didnt ask Blackburn to make Albacores!. I'm also puzzled as to why the Barracuda was ordered when there was so little of the German fleet left, the Americans were vastly overpowering Japan. The Albacore was fine - and from what you've explained - better than the sw3ordfish in all but one aspect - the gap bet6ween its ubercarriage legs, To me, the obvious answer would be to modify some Albacores to allow ASW radar to be fitted..
Finally, jets. Jets were clearly going to dominate military aircraft design post war, and the Albacore was doing a grand job for the FAA, so why not just build more Albacores, and then work up specs for an Albacore replacement after the war's ebd?
As for Churchill - a great wartime leader of our nation he was (mostly), but it seems that every time he poked his nose into military matters, the result was a disaster! It seems a tad unfair to me that whilst Hitler and Stalin rightly get criticised for theit decidedly unhelpful interferebces with their own military, Churchill seldom does.
Blackburn built Swordfish because , already in production, it was easier and cheaper as Ed Nash explains.
The contributions of the Albacore at Matapan are important as the Bismarck attack.
Jet powered torpedo planes?
Your comments about Churchill are valid but remember that history is written by the victors.
When I first came across the Albacore I had wondered why they had just enclosed the cockpit. It was not until I looked into its history I realised that there was more to it and its reputation was not deserved.
Taranto may have had a bigger impact if the second carrier had been available as was supposed to happen. One or two more of the larger warships damaged or sunk would have made it harder to make a show of force.
At last, someone who can deliver an interesting and informative narrative. Excellent narrative with clear diction, way above the standards of many videos. Well done Ed.
Wow, thank you!
The big difference for notoriety could be put down to the movie, 'Sink the Bismark' which projected the underdog role of the Swordfish into common culture. Had they made a movie about Matapan it might have been different - both aircraft and in particular the crews were magnificent. Love your videos Ed👍
Another great explanation of what should have been a better career for this aircraft.
Well done Ed, keep up the good work.
Excellent, unbiased and informative video. Cheers.
I missed your posts! Hope you had a great holiday season, and I wish you and those you care about, all the best for the New Year! Thank you so much for all your work.
I hadn't seen them before with US star insignia. Seems it was for Op Torch to make US forces less likely to shoot them down in confusion for Vichy French. Learn something every day.
It wasn't for that. It was thought the French would be less likely to fire on American forces than British.
Very nice video Ed!! Keep up this awesome series!
I've long thought this would make the perfect warbird today. Slow, small field performance, unusual looks, compact for hangarage, 3 seats... what's not to like?
Stinger missiles for one...
@@MrBandholm I don't think you quite understand what he meant...
@@jimdavis8391 then enlighten me...
@@jimdavis8391He isn't wrong.
Thanks for another very informative video! My curiousity has been raised though by the footage of Albacores in US markings. Is there another story to be told there?
I am guessing in the Pacific theatre, the red in a UK roundel could be confused with a Japanese Rising Sun, as with the red circle in the US Star and Bar.
Later the FAA in the British Pacific Fleet would for similar reasons have a blue and white roundel, with blue and white bars.
Though the footage you noticed might be from operations against Vichy French, so Allied aircraft for this standardized on the US markings due to the Vichy possibility using their own roundel.
The US markings were applied for the Torch invasion of French North Africa. The theory was that the French would be more liable to shoot at the British after Mers el Kebir. The ruse didn't work well. The French shot at everybody!
Thanks for that info !@@dennisnaylor2965
Thanks Dennis. Good yarn, and maybe a topic for Ed to explore further!
For some reason in naval wargaming the Albacore is an absolute beast for damage. I had a battleship sunk from just one flight of Albacores!
Excellent stuff, a real eye opener about an aircraft little known to me
Thanks, Ed. And Happy New Year!
Thank you for covering the Albacore 😊 service.
Superb video of a criminally underappreciated aircraft
Well done Ed, this is deserved of a "Forgotten Aircraft" episode. History is written by the winners, and their propaganda lives on. So given the British "underdog" theme, it's not surprising that the Swordfish was immortalised, especially since the improvement was only incremental. But yeah, AC does give us pilots' perspectives on flying each. Cheers!
THANKS Mr.Ed Nash....
Old F-4 2 Shoe🇺🇸
Being obsolescent for an intended purpose didn't preclude being adequate for secondary purposes (thereby freeing up newer planes or ships for frontline use). The B-18 Bolo was obsolete, but usable early in the war for anti-submarine patrolling, when better airplanes were in short supply and needed in combat theaters. US Omaha class light cruisers were obsolescent, but well suited for anti-raider patrolling and rescue of U-boat sinking survivors in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. US Wickes and Clemson class destroyers were obsolescent at the start of WW2, but usable for convoy duty, and eventually many were converted to secondary roles as fast transports, minesweepers, and such (I wonder if RN V and W class destroyers had similar careers). Re-purposed Swordfish likely allowed more capable airplanes to be used in roles that require those greater capabilities.
Great content, Ed! Thanks again!
Great presentation!
Well done once again ! Thank you !
A small step up from the stringbag , The Air Ministry detested spending on naval aircraft . And man does it show !
Welcome back, Ed!
UA-cam took away my subscription status, I had to redo it, FYI. Thanks for the video, its cool to find out about these planes at the start of the war.
Interesting you mentioned the Devastator - proof that the number of wings is no indicator of service life. Worth remembering the zones the FAA concentrated on for their carrier aircraft - North Atlantic (no enemy fighter), North Sea (partially covered by the RAF) and Mediterranean (where the Italians still used biplane fighters - so a biplane with STOL and long endurance isn't such a bad idea. The British and the French still used slow prop planes (Gannet and Alize) into the 80s for the same roles, though they had better attack planes to do the dangerous work by then.
One factor rarely considered and never quantified for naval aircraft is the incidence of decklanding accidents and the ability to get the crew (the most valuable equipment) home in all weathers. I believe this was a strength of the Stringbag and possibly the Albacore (apparently not the Barracuda). Did this make the Stringbag a better fit for the Escorts Carriers?
I also note that the Stringbag was used for CAP on the Artic Convoys (when bad weather prevented) Martlets from flying which adds another string to their bow. (British Escort Carriers Angus Konstam)
As you say Ed A long shadow, thank you, for illuminating the Albacore as a worthy aircraft.
Great video as always. And armoured carriers is a brilliant channel shockingly undersubscribed
The actor Peter Butterworth (best known for the Carry On films) was the pilot in an Albacore that was shot down in the raid on De Kooy and Den Helder on 21-22 June 1940 in which the Observer Sub Lt Dyke was KIA. He and his Air Gunner Leading Airman Jackson were taken POW. Later on in the war Lt Butterworth was held in Stalag Luft III and was one of the POWs involved in the Wooden Horse escape - not an escapee but one of the vaulters. Ironically when the film was made of that escape, he wasn't deemed to look heroic enough to act in it.
Considering the Fairey Albacore was supposed to be a stop gap between the retirement of the Fairey Swordfish in 1939 and the introduction the Fairey Barracuda in 1941 as the British Empire was building for a war to begin in 1942 not 1939
Great video, Ed...👍
As a private pilot with multi engine and jet rating I have always wanted to try flying an Albacore and a Gannett.
I have looked at the original specifications (M7/36 and the later 41/36) that lead to the Fairey Albacore's design and it's interesting that the Air Ministry issued two specifications, one for a Torpedo Spotter Reconnaissance aircraft (T.S.R specification M7/36) and the other for a Dive Bomber Reconnaissance Aircraft (D.B.R specification o.8/36), with the idea that one of the two specifications would produce an update monoplane design for the FAA. Fairey had been chosen to exclusively tender designs for the Dive Bomber Reconnaissance aircraft. However, the company felt it could not produce a satisfactory aircraft for the specification. This led to the two specifications being merged into one as it was determined that an aircaft designed to the T.S.R. role could also carry out dive bombing.
Once the two specifications had been amalgamated, the admiralty expressed a desire for a biplane as the FAA had little to no experience flying monoplanes.
The Admiralty wanted the new aircraft as quickly as possible to replace both the Blackburn Shark and Fairey Swordfish, which was deemed to become obsolete by 1940.
Eric Winkle brown wrote that the Swordfish rivalled the Tiger Moth for ease of flying, and would almost land itself on a carrier. Thus any other plane would feel heavy...
Thanks for the explanation on doctrine/design choices for the FAA. Their various oddly-shaped aircraft always puzzled me. It was clear just looking at them they weren't trying to do what the Americans and Japanese were doing, despite the Brits having the tech to do so. I never understood why until now. Their entire carrier force was just a better form of catapult-launched spotter from their point of view. (doctrinally, not in employment)
A lot of It stems from the decision to assign all aircraft to the RAF, which meant that there was no Fleet Air Arm for most of the interwar period, no naval aviators and no realistic appreciation of the potential of air power within the Admiralty. The result? Unrealistic doctrine, marginal aircraft, and an entire fleet of ships with minimal or marginal AA defenses.
It's too bad the swordfish was better, though I'd imagine the albacore would be a bit more comfortable than the swordfish while flying in the North Atlantic with an enclosed cockpit
Hey Ed, have you ever heard of a south African project known as the bomb cart? One of my coworkers had something to do with it, and upon researching it a bit, it seems to be a COIN aircaft that looks like a baby A-10, made from bits of BAC Jet Provost
I have not! Have to see if I can dig anything up!
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters I've managed to find a pair of proposed layout drawings on secret projects forums, and that's about it. My coworker tells me they tested the aerodynamics with an RC miniature version
Ed, that's an interesting shot at time stop 10:37, with what must be a Seafire nestling at the back of the crowd of Albacores. It would be enlightening to identify the ship and the date.
Given you can't know in advance what missions you will be tasked to undertake
Who is going to chose the Stringbag Swordfish (the hypothermic option) or the warm, if slightly control heavy Applecore?
And neither would I
But note - *There is a beautiful Swordfish which FLIES at Shuttleworth (Bedfordshire) on display days* (& loads of other iconic stuff)
Kevin - Thank you.
Thanks Ed.
Are there any pictures of an Albacore in monoplane form even of only in plan form?
It would be really interesting to see exactly what it would have looked like, especially in comparison to my own pictures of a monoplane variant of the Albacore that I edited in Windows Paint using common sense to come up with a probable design, if not then a definite design form.
Considering the circumstances of the times and the need to save materials and funds then Fairey would have probably reused as many parts from other planes so as not to waste time making new jigs which would use up extra materials and funds when jigs already exist for other planes in production.
Looking at the other Fairey aircraft of the time I could only see the Fulmar as using wings that were suitable for use on the Albacore being a low wing design and so I replaced the biplane wings with the single wing of the Fulmar along with the undercarriage of the Fulmar and it looks very much like a Mitsubishi A6M Zero but the engine looks tiny in comparison so I made a duplicate with a larger power plant which would have required a larger propeller and so bigger undercarriage and arrestor hook.
I then went and edited again for a third variant which was a single seat model with a tear drop canopy, I think on paper albeit digitally speaking the imagination can look upon the monoplane designs quite favourably and although it would have possibly have been much better than the biplane imho, it probably would still have been a poor performer.
Haha
0:43 Italy fielded new biplanes until 1943
Excellent review.
Excellent!
Sort of old hurricane v Spitfire during the Battle of Britain story.
You're quite right about the traditional narrative: the Albacore is only mentioned, then we're told that the T.S.R.II outlasted it and nothing about what the Albacore did. There's still no way to call it a success, but it's another example of a failure caused by specification and doctrine, not the actual design and construction, like the Defiant and the Battle.
It's kind of entertaining that the Swordfish stayed in production because Blackburn had been given it, presumably so they could have some experience of building an aircraft that was good looking and effective (relatively).
"I Thought" as per my memory of this age, these Men, and their Machines? Albacore Was it was Much Loved for Gorila or Resistance Use? as I recall she had good STOL abilities, short landing and take off? as I remember told me? but I can Not recall what the Canadians, or Americans, named Her?
So the TL:DR boils down to
British: The Swordfish is good, but can you make us a better one?
Fairey: Sure, we've got a modern design that can replace it and bring the FAA up to the standard of its peers.
British: NO! Just make the Swordfish better.
Fairey. Ok, if you say so. *makes the Albacore*
British: What the heck is this? This sucks! We can't even carry out poorly planned and executed operations.
Fairey:...
British:... You suck!
Fairey: History is not going to be kind to us is it.
History: No. No we will not.
Fairey: *sigh *
Excellent Ed. Have you, are you going to do a video on the barracuda ???
Probably at some point, again, recommend the Armoured Carriers video on the Barra :)
I'm afraid that, as a practical matter, I just don't see a lot of daylight in between "this aircraft was obsolete before it first flew because it was poorly designed" and "this aircraft was obsolete before it first flew because it was designed in response to an obsolete specification, which in turn was crafted due to an obsolete doctrine." The Swordfish was already very much obsolescent by 1937, with the emergence of the TBD and B5N in the US and Japan respectively; specifying its replacement type as "that, but with a heater" really shows how little the RN (and the RAF for that matter) cared about, or even _thought_ about, the FAA in the 1930s.
I think a lot of the people who talk ill of the Albacore these days because it was only 'mildly' better than the Swordfish in performance only look at the Wikipedia stats and don't think about crew comfort the more modern design offered for naval operations.
Hi Mr Nash! Happy new year!
Have always liked this plane.
Hi, great video. I do have a question, any further info on the albacore shown on the flight deck with British tail markings but an apparent US star on the fuselage. Keep up the great work.
Operation Torch, they swapped to US markings to make it look like a US operation as the French would open fire on Brit planes on sight
It's a bit unfair the criticism, I can see the reasoning,the Fleet Air arm had a very successful aircraft in the swordfish, so make a more modern enclosed cockpit version that should be better
@ 8.30 - noooo not that myth again. Suffice to say, the Japanese took it as confirmation that what they were already planning way before Taranto would work.
They were being helped in their training by a brit, a lord no less! 😮
Poor Applecores. Nice to see your defence. I noticed the planned TB for the Graff Zeppelin looked very similar to the Applecores. Fiesler something? You have a video I think.
Would you perhaps consider making a video about the origins of Albacore and the monoplane proposal by Fairey? An interesting 'what if...'
a great very interesting video and aircraft Mr.Ed as always. was this aircraft ever equipped with a radar?was it used in any other role than the torpedo attack.thank you have a good one.
Awesome thanks
I've loved the Albacore since I was a kid! To me it will always be The Flying Killer Tunafish!😁
It served in Indian theater; yay!!😊
iirc, while the Swordfish outlived the Albacore in Britain, the latter actually outlived its predecessor because it was used by the Canadians several years longer. Which makes sense - heated enclosed cockpit is a big deal in the cold north.
It's really a Series 2 Swordfish.
Albacores were also utilized in the British/French invasion of Madagascar in 1942.
Very informative! one question though - why were there Albacores seen in this video that had stars painted on them, like they were in US service? For example at the 11min mark
For Operation Torch, I believe.
Wondering why some of the aircraft featured carried the stars of the U S. Navy? Would be obvious enough, except still carry the British tail insignia, any ideas?
Great vid as per, thanks foe sharing.
Toward the end, there appears some video of Albacores apparently in US markings. What's the story on that? The Wikipedia page doesn't include any in USN or USAAF service. Could they perhaps have been painted that way for Operation Torch?
Well up to your nonstandard. Much enjoyment
The supposed replacement, the Fairey Barracuda, was basically a total failure. The real replacement was the Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger.
Some of the file footage in this excellent report of the Albacore shows them with 1942 American markings. Were these being evaluated for American service or being flown operationally?
FAA aircraft flew in US markings during Operation Torch; the invasion of French North Africa.
It was hoped that the Vichy French would be less likely to fire at Americans than the British.
Did I see a fleeting glimpse of an Albacore sporting US pre-1942 Stars on it’s wing taking off from a carrier??
For Operation Torch, I believe.
Never forget the Swordfish was only one year older than the Hurricane and 2 years older than the Spitfire.
8:41 “Fairey Fulmar fighter” is an oxymoron. They were only somewhat faster than the ponderous Ju 87 Stukas that were part of the Kirkenes raid response.
The Sea Otter was introduced to replace the Walrus and also failed to do so. Britain seems to be good at building aircraft that fail to replace the type whose role they are to take on.
Jesus Christ when youre compared to the TBD, you have nowhere else to go but up. EDIT: 07:16 How beautiful is that, seriously. I want one.
The simple, wooden Swordfish could be repaired by crews on small escort carriers. One big reason the stringbag had such a long life
The Swordfish had a metal airframe. The wings and rear fuselage aft of the cockpit were fabric skinned the front of the fuselage was metal skinned.
@@stuartburton1167sorry, thinking of fabric, not wood. Escort carrier crews could do a lot more to keep them flying than they could do with all metal airframes. I don't know if the older engines might have been easier to work on as well but airframe maintenance is often talked about as the main reason for retaining the Swordfish. I suspect that the Swordfish's handling characteristics might have been popular on smaller carriers as well.
Seeing some Albacores in “American markings” (a white star), was it ever tested or used by the US Navy?
It seems strange that a biplane, the Albacore, with two wings. Would be replaced by a monoplane, the Barracuda, with sometimes , no wings! Thanks for the very informative video. I really appreciate your narration. Some productions have great content but are hard on the ears.