The Subminimum Wage Disability Pay Loophole - If You Don’t Know, Now You Know | The Daily Show
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2021
- Thanks to a loophole, disabled employees can legally be paid less than their non-disabled counterparts. Here’s a look at the debate over subminimum wage. #DailyShow #TrevorNoah #IfYouDontKnowNowYouKnow
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My daughter was disabled. She passed away at the beginning of 2020. A few of her friends are in this situation. Goodwill is one place that pays as little as possible to its disabled employees.
You also can’t earn too much, or you lose assistance. At one point my daughter made enough money each month (about $400) so she lost some of her assistance. She ended up with $100 LESS each month because was working. This is why there are people who don’t work. They lose more from their assistance (rent, food, money,) than they can earn.
There are a lot of changes needed. It is complicated, but some of the complications are caused by the people who think they shouldn’t have to help others.
Yet another reason I don’t like Goodwill. And the way government services are structured. I’ve been told by many people of different backgrounds who rely on government services that they earn more from not working than they do from working. Which is ridiculous because often times these people aren’t able to live solely on government services nor solely on their income. They need a combination of both. Aka supplementary assistance from the government in addition to their small incomes
Sorry for your loss and thank you for your insight
My condolences to you…
Slavery is alive and well in the disability communities. Society tries to financially exploit us. I’m so sorry for the loss of your daughter.
@@edavid2557 hello
Thank you for covering this. What is missing is an exploration of how social security disability punishes gainful employment and thus pushes people into sheltered workshops.
Great point! States often set an unbearably low monthly income cap (sometimes only a few hundred dollares) which would make a disabled person ineligible for Social Security Disability income and would leave the disabled person homeless as well as unemployed.
Just discussing this with my neighbor. I receive SSI due to kidney failure, i can only make a few hundred extra dollars a month. Lift this limitation, if only through this pandemic. There is money out there to be made. I need and want it.
Yes yes yes!
The $2k savings cap alone is enough to keep us trapped in poverty. Why should the government regulate our lives like this?
It happened to me this year and now I'm going to lose my benefits because I've saved some of my tax return to get a house to raise myself and my family out of poverty. When you have any amount of money over a certain amount ($500 or more I believe) for over 6 months SSI considers it as assets and deducts that amount by a percentage from your benefits until you spend it.. so you're just stuck. The benefits are not enough to live off of and if you get a job, even part time (that's all I worked and can work) they deduct 50 cents on the dollar IMMEDIATELY!! In this way you instantly lose any support those benefits provided. Yet, if you don't work in some capacity most of the recipients, like myself fall and stay trapped in poverty. I want better for my family than the life I lead right now and I shouldn't be penalized further because I'm a disabled person who's trying to do just that.
So it’s a sweatshop market in the US for using disabled people.
Hua, I work outside in Texas. That has to be considered a sweatshop of some kind.
@@acunhisesi1014 ok
For people in prison as well
@@melaniedennis9540 yep. The legal exception to slavery in the 13th amendment.
Yeah "If we can't pay disabled people nothing, they won't get jobs anywhere else".
I am 22 and on SSI (I was born with a disabling condition) and I can’t get married or have more then 2k in assets at one time (including things like a car or house). This hasn’t been changed since these rules were initially made decades ago.
When I did work I wouldn’t explicitly disclose my disabilities and needs for accommodations until I had accepted an offer and started the job. Because then at that point they can not fire me and if they try to it is discrimination
Just a heads up: you are allowed to have a house / car on SSI, but getting it while never having more than $2k is pretty impossible! I’m currently struggling to try and work from home part time but also not lose Medicaid… I have a kidney transplant, i can’t afford to live without Medicaid. Stuck in a hole!
It's all a part of the eugenics movement. It's to deter those they deem as inferior to ever procreate, to ever succeed and to stay living in poverty. These ancient rules were never changed. Instead become more harsh and strict and down right impossible to live.
@@LivingDeadGurlXXX The eugenicists are still around, too.
@@LumiereDarlin That is exactly what I am saying the value of those assets count against your 2k allowance
@@madison8568 sorry, typos! If you own a home and live in it, it does not count against the $2000 asset limit. I own my home and car.
Thank you for talking about this. From a disabled person ❤️
The fact that a disabled person is willing to work says a lot. Don’t pay them less just because they struggle more
Exactly! We are JUST AS valuable members of society as abled-bodied people are!
AMEN!!👏👏👏
As long as they can do the job with reasonable accommodations for their disability I'm always willing to hire them. There are of course jobs that reasonable accommodations can't be made for, but most of those jobs will end up being replaced by robots in the next 20 years anyways.
I gave up being willing a long time ago. I was fired for my disability from one job and told to quit from another. I kept applying for jobs for years and got nothing. Eventually one of the ladies at one of the places I applied told me a former boss was warning people not to hire me. Then I was in an accident that rendered me unable to work so.
@@ForeverMe543 I’m sorry you had to go go through that! People that are just jerks are just outright ignorant. They ruin it for everyone too!
Even the $7.25 an hour federal minimum wage is still far too low to live on anyway, according to economic reports, there's no place in America that one minimum wage can even afford one single bedroom apartment. And imagine getting paid even less than that. Also for many of these folks with disability, they have to regularly take medicine, and we all know how ridiculous drug prices are in America.
yeah but the issue is a bit of a systematic one, it's not as simple as just increasing minimum wage some business can't afford to pay 15 an hour to all their employees so for businesses like they will either go under making those employees jobless or cut hours which wouldn't really change much, and for those who lost their jobs it would probably be more difficult to get a new job since more would be expected out of them since they would be paid more.
I personally think the minimum wage should be raised to $25 dollars per hour.
If you increase the minimum wage, prices for everything increase and we're back to the original problem
@@yousufkhan1720 true.
@@pforgottonsoul But minimum wage was always supposed to be a liveable wage. As FDR said: "It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By 'business' I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white-collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."
I was a hairstylist for about 20 years before becoming disabled. I've got college degrees and can't image only being paid pennies an hour for my work. It's bad enough that my disability payments have me in the poverty bracket and I can't save more than $2,000 before I'm penalized. One of the meds I'm on is for the chronic pancreatitis I'm suffering. Dr's don't know why I'm suffering from chronic pancreatitis, maybe because I live in a state with a the worst history of medical care. But that medication I take for that one illness, puts me in the bracket of ... "I've reached my max out of pocket for my medications and now have zero co pay for the rest of the year" by the end of March. I don't even make enough to live alone. My monthly income is what I used to make every 2 weeks when I was working full time. But even if I wanted to work, which I do! My health is so bad, I can't. So people ask me what I do all day. Well, my mom has advanced Alzheimers, and I live with her. I take care of all of her medical care, her finances, and try to keep up on my own health at the same time. That balance doesn't work.
I feel for you. The US System makes me clinch my fist. Greetings from
Solidarity to you!
From the Blind Community
Hang in there
😱😢that is so awful. You have my sympathy (not my pity!) This situation is not your fault... it's obscene!
Chronic Pancreatitis?! Jesus Christ on a bicycle! That's horrible, just thinking of that being chronic makes me want to curl into a ball.
There's also the loophole that paying the disabled fairly would disqualify them from receiving social security, housing support, community services and health benefits.
So? If they can take care of themselves, I see that as a win/win. They win, and we win. No more welfare to those that work and can pay their own bills. But that is strongly dependent on the salary
@@justadad6677 If they are getting away with paying 2 cents now, I don't expect them to be magically benevolent and pay liveable wages; $7.25/hr isn't liveable
@@chasefasten4120 No it's not.
The way I see this particular problem is, both sides are right.
We can't expect many to hire disabled workers. In general, they perform slower, depending on what work we can create for them. So I get it is a deterrent to hire disabled people.
But I want them to work if they so desire. And for that, we need the government to encourage hiring and finding proper jobs.
The only thing we can't do, is exploit people. So if salaries is the main obstacle, then I suggest the government cover the rest. Let business have the minimum wage they agree on, and the government pay the rest, so they get a salary that can cover the cost of living, and give them dignity and purpose.
@@justadad6677 epilepsy is considered a disability their are many kinds of epilepsy most don’t affect how well someone can work in a environment just because you have a disability doesn’t mean you can’t work and some disability’s cause certain human behaviors that can be bad however some of them enable people to do better in certain job environment
@@justadad6677 my dad served 20 years in the military and retired and he had dyslexia that’s a disability and he made it all the way through without being discharged jusg because you have a disability doesn’t mean you can’t work
Sheltered workshops are an excuse for ablelist employers who profit from paying workers with disabilities sub par wages while people without disabilities are paid wages from the same work. They same thing happens to peer support providers who work in similar jobs as their co-workers, but based on the perceived disability of their experiences are paid far less. Ableism like racism is structural and institutional. It is deeply imbedded in society causing serious harm.
Shame shame shame
Homer Pyle 😳
You are exactly right.
This is all too true. Unfortunately, doesn't seem to be changing on it's own. We have plenty of work to do.
EXACTLY! IT IS ABLEISM! Disabled people deserve a living wage
A fun fact. Goodwill in Oregon fired most of their warehouse staffings when the loop hole was addressed and effectively closed in Oregon law. Stating that their work was no longer needed due to automation of the facilities.
The fact that you're unable to marry (your significant other become your primary care taker (ya that specialized caretaker? Na you don't need that) and your combined incomes weigh against your status for benefits instead of if you can pay for the care you need.
Plus if you recieve benefits like a PSW or income assistance, you loose that instantly once you make over 2,000 a month. (And you have to pay any income you recieved back tonthe government)
Effectly making it so those with disabilities either have to scrape by with pocket lint and a dream, or rise above as an "exception" who has to balance their life on top of all the medical expenses that they may aquire.
The other side is that if the loophole is closed many disabled people won't be able to work at all, because their labor isn't worth minimum wage.
I have an aunt with Downs Syndrome. Employers that pay minimum wage won't hire her at all, because her limitations mean they would lose money. But she works at a workshop for about $4 per hour. She loves going to work, and she loves having a little money of her own. She doesn't need a living wage, her parents take care of her. She does need this job, for the satisfaction it gives her. If the loophole is removed, she won't make more, she'll make nothing, and she'll lose the sense of accomplishment she has.
Shocking. Just horrible.
@@TheDivegeek Thanks for sharing that story.
The disabled person's competition is prison workers - also paid pennies on the dollar. The thing is, the disabled people are given jobs that they can do. So, pay them for doing it! Able bodied people get paid while training, so should disabled people. No discrimination is always the best policy.
In some states prisoners are forced to work for nothing. Legal slavery.
If we can not agree to get rid of this, then we need to pass a law stating no person can work for less than 1/2 the federal minimum wage. This would include the disabled, prisoners, and interns. Trust me, they are using prisoners as slaves too.
@@robearberbils you can say that but prisons run on money so they need some form of income. I would be glad if i got some form of money when i got out.
@@voidblack1706 You’re really advocating for private prisons & people getting coerced into jobs, some of which they can’t even legally do when they get out (such as fire jumpers in CA) right now… 😒
That's the thing that shocks me about this. They're clearly doing the work so why should they be paid less? I get the origin but to continue this practice is sickening.
Thankfully, Maryland outlawed this. But the other problem is the poverty trap of SSI. People who make more than a certain amount of money or have more than a certain amount of money in the bank no longer qualify for benefits. And those amounts are shockingly low numbers!
Agreed - I have family members who are stuck in that trap!
It totally disincentivizes success, or even improvement. If she took a couple more days of work per week, she’d lose her benefits - despite still being FAR from able to pay her bills. So, as an elderly person with health issues that limit her life but don’t qualify her for disability, she’s stuck.
They’re given a choice of: “stay down - or, if you do want to succeed AND pay rent, you’d better skyrocket up so fast you break the sound barrier. So just stay down.”
The system assumes elderly will have financial success from youth OR, more likely have family to support you. Which one of those should exist but this of course is an imperfect world
@@DannyD-lr5yg Thankfully it’s not something I have firsthand experience, only something I’ve read about, heard about. But it’s like the system is built to keep people with disabilities in the shadows. You want to work? You want the bare minimum accommodations to live your life? Pick one.
@@DannyD-lr5yg Unfortunately I have personal experience with this in my young 20’s. I chose a job to utilize my education but it was unfortunately in Baltimore: it paid only $20k something per year. I immediately was disqualified from SSI and was forced to back pay from the day I started work. I lived in Baltimore City in a small row house with 3 roommates, could barely make ends meet and forget about savings. It was a joke. I could literally have sat home collecting SSI for almost the same amount of money as my job. The SS worker even said to me “why work?” if I have a disability 😕. Because I have my BRAIN and I am going to do something with my life. There was no incentive (except my own) to try to contribute to society. I just needed some relief from my constant medical bills.
As a disabled person I can confirm. And here in NY it's total assets not liquid capital. Last I checked it was $2000 total. I can't even have a car in my name or I'd start losing benefits.
Disabled persons, prison workers, migrant workers. Without all of these people, the US economy would grind to a halt. And all of these individuals deserve better treatment!
I have a disability and when I last worked, I worked for Target. I got paid the same starting wage as everyone else. $8/hr doing stock work approximately 18-24 hours a week. Target received a tax credit of like $5,000 a year for employing me.
That's what should be happening everywhere! Don't penalize the disabled! Incentivize employers to hire them!
@@lenawagenfuehr53 I think what Brian was getting at was Target got more for hiring him than he got for working there.
@@sgtdenker Doing the math, you could say that less than half of his actual pay came from Target, and more than half came from government incentives.
@@evannibbe9375 Yes, because like always...the government chooses to give the those who don't need it to resolve the issues of those who do. Rather than removing unnecessary restrictions limiting the work one can do while on disability & not threatening to take their healthcare if they earn less than a living wage, but more than nothing our government chose to give incentives to corporations for employing more disabled people at the same rate, who will also be ineligible for full SSD benefits when all is said & done. They could have just as easily provided nothing to Target and instead allowed the employee to keep their worker income without cutting their SSD benefits.
So they really only paid you fairly for a federal tax credit? Sound like quid pro quo.
I have seizures because of epilepsy. When I’m doing an interview for a job, I don’t tell them. After I get hired then I tell them. I’m pretty sure that if I were to tell them that I had seizures, I would be less likely to get the job.
While on the job and they see me having seizures every once in a while, they start giving me a hard time and being stricter on me so they can have an excuse to fire me.
I have epilepsy to, I disclose it in interviews, Mine is under control right now(knock on wood). I do have hypoglycemia and that causes double vision at the end of the night sometimes. It’s a tricky situation to be in. I got lucky with my new job and they encouraged me to talk about seizure first aid and put up information by the first aid kit.
Been turned down multiple times for jobs after disclosure. I used to do architectural drafting, but if I don't sleep well I have episodes...so I warned potential employers. They get a scared look, start asking ignorant questions about biting off my tongue, and then suggest that the hours will be too much and they'll need to think about how to make the office safe...then no call back. I eventually got s.s.d. because I couldn't afford my meds anymore and it was out of control. My seizures are less, but in a city where cost of living is skyrocketing...I will only be able to stay out from under a bridge if my lovely friends keep helping me out. It's embarrassing and boring, not working is not fun.
@@lfeb yeah. Not being able to work like everyone else can make someone feel depressed because they just want to feel normal… to be independent without needing help from everyone. Do you tell her you’re employers that you have seizures before you’re hired or do you tell them after? They don’t fire you because you have seizures do they? I’m pretty sure that’s against the law.
@@Oliviux78 I've told them before, afraid that I would end up with ignorant people trying to shove spoons in my throat if I didn't warn them... maybe I should have just waited until the moment after filling out the tax paperwork
There were several people that talked for disabled people that were pro subminimum wage in this video but all the disabled people who actually talked themselves were against it. I think we should listen to the people these issues are impacting
Agreed!
Honestly, how do these people sleep at night?
I have an aunt with Downs Syndrome. Employers that pay minimum wage won't hire her at all, because her limitations mean they would lose money. But she works at a workshop for about $4 per hour. She loves going to work, and she loves having a little money of her own. She doesn't need a living wage, her parents take care of her. She does need this job, for the satisfaction it gives her. If the loophole is removed, she won't make more, she'll make nothing, and she'll lose the sense of accomplishment she has.
@@TheDivegeek and I get that but I think instead we should put laws against not employing people because they're disabled. Because your aunt deserves to earn at least minimum wage for the work she does. And I hate to say it but you are another person speaking for disabled people instead of an actual disabled person speaking. And I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't true and I'm not saying your aunt wouldn't approve of what you're saying but I do wish we had more actual disabled people chiming in on the issue and less people speaking for disabled people.
@@emmabringhurst9325 while I love my aunt and think she makes the world a better place, I'm also very sure that the pace and quality of her work is such that if she had to be paid $7 -- much less $15, as many are asking the minimum wage to be raised to -- employing her would be a net cost to the business, and they wouldn't do it.
As for her speaking directly, while she can read and write, her ability isn't sufficient to communicate in a text only channel like this one.
I’m a person that makes videos about Disability and Service Dogs! Since I’ll be getting a guide dog soon for my visual impairment. I’m VERY passionate about creating long waited change in society! I like making my videos to educate people! People NEED to stop viewing us as “less than,” and take these problems MORE seriously! Also, everybody need to educate themselves too! We WANT to have MORE opportunity, but historical views of us are getting in the way. We aren’t here for just inspiration, there’s big lack of education and accessibility that NEEDS to be addressed! Trevor, thank you for addressing these problems that’s not talked about enough!
The other side is that if the loophole is closed many disabled people won't be able to work at all, because their labor isn't worth minimum wage.
I have an aunt with Downs Syndrome. Employers that pay minimum wage won't hire her at all, because her limitations mean they would lose money. But she works at a workshop for about $4 per hour. She loves going to work, and she loves having a little money of her own. She doesn't need a living wage, her parents take care of her. She does need this job, for the satisfaction it gives her. If the loophole is removed, she won't make more, she'll make nothing, and she'll lose the sense of accomplishment she has.
That's awesome, I'll go check them out if their on your channel. Yes, the implicit bias has painted us in an unpleasant light, I must agree. I also feel that more disable people on multiple levels with different abilities and disabilities would be productive members of society and be able to live much more equitable lives had we not been threatened with making less money working as much as we can than not, neither or which is enough to support oneself off of, let alone the health insurance. I am unable to live to my full potential in many ways on this planet as I fear losing my much needed healthcare. I was in debt $90k just from medical bills @ age 22. This ruined any chance I had at building a career or future as my organs deteriorated inside...living 8n such pain and agony is bad enough. To threaten to take away my right to healthcare if I *try* to do all I am capable of and *try* to be independent? It's horrendous, and far too many people fail to realize this or they simply don't care.
@@TheDivegeek I completely understand this, and that's why they should simply pay her the standard for wage and the government instead could incentivize the workshops with $5k (or so) per employee rather than giving incentives to corporations for employing those with disabilities who can do the jobs other disabled people may not @ minimum wage.
That's just one idea, of course I'm sure there are better ones out there. The point is, these workshops are exploiting the labor of innocent victims. It's sad.
@@venusbloodflow Thank you for the support! I haven’t gotten my guide dog yet. I’m on a waiting list for match and training! To be confirmed by Guiding Eyes For The Blind. I have a lot of videos about the topics I just mentioned on my channel!
They really just said that “if employers can’t abuse them then they won’t hire them, so we need to let it continue.”
22¢/ Hour? You can’t even buy a postal stamp
Sure you can ... after 4 hours of work.
When I was a florist I worked with a man who was disabled and was paid an extremely low wage. He was such a sweet man and his smile brightened the day every time! He and his assistant tried, at one point, to get him a $0.05/hour increase since he had worked for the company for a decade and was always there on time--and he was denied!! It was disgusting....that was unfortunately just one of the many problems with that particular company. They had quite the habit of not paying their employees fairly....
That is obscene. You can't justify not paying someone properly
That's horrific.
I would have quit!!! That’s disgusting!!!
Shaking my head and rolling my eyes, but not surprised 😯
I'm doing the same but it's because I'm disabled.
@@KRB81 I am so sorry for your disability
One of the worst offenders is Goodwill. They pay their disabled workers peanuts while the top managers get six figure salaries. Think twice or more before shopping or donating to them.
You know there’s a video how to tie a noose... how many executives and managers making 6 figures work at goodwill?
6 figures is enviable to most people in the world but honestly, like it's not really thaaaat much. I agree with your broader point that it's probably too much considering the low wages the intake and floor associates make. But Goodwill is providing work to many people getting back on their feet.
@@bogusmcbogus2637 A few things, back in 2017 Goodwill's national CEO got $700,000 and his two chief lower execs got $300,000. Add to that dozens of state or regional divisions each with CEO's that get more than $300,000. That seems pretty top-heavy.
Moreover, ""Every six months, an individual who is paid under a special wage certificate, their productivity has to be assessed at least every six months. Often times employers will do it more frequently than that." Chief Execs get a cursory review once a year. They are helping their people "get back on their feet" at 22 cents an hour?
I agree don’t shop at Goodwill. I worked there at the same time as the news story (2013) and it was awful and so boring. We opened bags of donated items and sorted them but after that there was very little to do. I remember the speed test we did every 6 months.
The system is so scary, the workshops hire job coaches that have not been trained to work with special needs, just a bit more capable, I have witnessed discrimination, and nothing is done because it is hard for a client to stand up to employers. This is more than monetary discrimination/abuse.
As someone who is disabled and used to work part time as a job coach for people who have disabilities, I can agree with a lot of this. We really didn't get much training. The disabled people I was working with were making minimum wage, so I was happy to at least see that. Most of the companies they worked for treated them alright, but I do think that many companies only let them work there so they can take advantage of only paying them minimum wage. At one place, the person would wash tables, set tables, etc. Another cleaned offices. If the companies couldn't get away with paying disabled people almost nothing, they'd be paying someone else probably $10-12 for the same work so I certainly think that they could pay disabled people that much. If it's the type of thing where a disabled person is severely underperforming their peers and can only do the most basic of tasks, I can see how companies wouldn't want to pay them much but then SSDI needs to pay more to ensure that these people get a liveable wage.
Why is it always that the only solution to any wage problem is exploitation?
Thank you, Trevor. Being disabled myself, there were jobs where I did btr work than the bosses. Then often got fired for it. But many ppl are disabled now, mine was from a car accident. We can do SO Much great work & deserve the same pay that any1 gets for that position. For the very disabled, if they can do the job, give them the same.
So how are they surviving? Are they getting government disability support? These wages are insane. I can’t believe I’m hearing this.
It depends. I get $925/month from SSDI (and $148 goes straight to the Medicare premium, so only $777 is actually deposited in my account). I live on my own and don't have help from anyone besides SSDI, so I'm thankful that I'm also able to work at a part time job that pays pretty well (I have a bachelor's degree and am fully capable of doing as hard of work as anyone else, but I can only do it for a few hours a day). Section 8 housing won't even take applications in a lot of counties across the US, so unfortunately I really do think that there's a lack of help for disabled people. I think that generally if disabled people aren't living with parents, multiple roommates, or a spouse, it can be impossible to get by if you can't supplement your income with a decent paying part time job.
They also sometimes live in group homes and get SSI.
When I worked for Goodwill, years ago, I was appalled at my managers complaining about the disabled workers inability to "produce" like the rest of the crew. I have no idea how much those workers were making, but I knew it was less than I was. I made $6.50 an hour.
100% agree with you.
Appreciate you. Don’t we all deserve a living wage? All work is valuable.
And all your value is not equal to the work you do
no, not all work is valuable. that's why you have different wage amounts.
@@nyyommm9640 but its not valuable? Lol you mean some are more valuable but still doesn't add up....what does society need more a doctor or farmer? Who gets paid more?
@@desireebalay3331 On the other hand you can train a farm hand in a few weeks while it takes a decade to train a doctor and much fewer people can become a doctor. Wages are more or less based on a mixture of skill necessity/desirability, number of people who can do that job, and other jobs that person could do instead.
@@christopherwoodbury7520 And of course the most important ones, who you know and how much power you have.
1:10 - No one can convince any rational person that hiring a disabled person to work for $0.22/hour is helping them. No, at that point you're exploiting them and the system.
They got rid of the sheltered workshop in Rochester NY a few years ago and my relative with disabilities became unemployed. He lost a lot services, didn't see many of his friends anymore, and had to stay home 4-5 days a week. He wasn't able to get a regular job due to age, disabilities, and need to maintain his benefits. His health deteriorated after that time. While he didn't love everything about the workshop, it gave him quality of life and purpose for his days which the replacement programs did not get close to. Obviously, these types of places are not for everyone, and they probably should pay more.
Also just so you know this is where some Assembled or Made in America productions are made.
Through no fault of my own, I became disabled from any and all occupations at the age of 37. SS Disability pays 60& of your monthly earnings pre-disability (this goes for Retirement too, I believe). So, now I'm considerably older and my monthly benefit is less than my grandchild's. EVERYONE deserves enough to survive!
As a person with a disability I love to work! I want to be challenged. Thank you so much for talking about this topic because it is a huge topic in the disability community.
I very much agree! I want to work like I did before I became disabled. But, I cant; that just a fact. But that doesn't mean I want to do as little as possible for as little as possible!
I would love to find an Employer who welcomes me *despite* my disability, not *in spite* of it. And one who provides me a job I'm capable of performing for a reasonable wage!
Is that to much to ask? Fairness?
It's worst then this you know the job site gets tax benefits but some still under pay...
If we paid everyone based on their productivity...imagine how little most CEO's would be making or how much more most workers would make. 😋
Imagine how little we would pay Congress or the President. ...hmmmm
Don´t underestimate how excellently the CEOs think, while on the golf course.(😊)
I don't think it's true for *most* CEOs. In all likeliness, they'd end up making more, not less. Thankfully, the social aspect is there to even things out.
@@Lodinn Well you're factually incorrect with what you "think" in this case.
@@Lodinn That's why you're not paid to "think"
We make being kind and decent human beings so "complicated". Smh. That's tragic.
Really, I think it's just that people don't want to think of having to make everything work out well for everyone. So, what works for the masses is set, and anyone else struggles.
It sounds like these sheltered workshops want to exploit disabled people, and would rather fire everyone and close down, than actually pay minimum wage! That’s outrageous!
Reminds me of the line from Scrooge, “Are there no workhouses?”
The other side is that if the loophole is closed many disabled people won't be able to work at all, because their labor isn't worth minimum wage.
I have an aunt with Downs Syndrome. Employers that pay minimum wage won't hire her at all, because her limitations mean they would lose money. But she works at a workshop for about $4 per hour. She loves going to work, and she loves having a little money of her own. She doesn't need a living wage, her parents take care of her. She does need this job, for the satisfaction it gives her. If the loophole is removed, she won't make more, she'll make nothing, and she'll lose the sense of accomplishment she has.
@@TheDivegeek so why can’t her sheltered job pay the actual minimum wage? What does it say about them that they’d rather close down than pay a fair wage?
@@joermnyc It's not that they would rather close down. It's because they wouldn't be able to afford staying open. When your entire workforce is about 20% as effective as a neurotypical person you are not making profit. What little money they do have goes to paying the on staff nurses and caretakers.
I've' talked to someone that used to run one of these workshops in a place where they were canceled. She was devastated when she had to let go all her employees because she knew what having a job meant to them.
Definition of a "sweatshop." Only difference is that you usually picture kids, not the disabled.
Im not disabled but I just left a job that paid 14 a hour to a waiter job that LITERALLY pays pennies because of discrimination. Everyone deserves to pay their rent and have a full stomach.
So some people think it's better for disabled people to make penny's per hour than not having a job. Smh
More like they think that's what disabled people *deserve* because they see them as lesser.
😞
I hired disabled people who had to have a caretaker with them during their shifts. I paid them the same as everyone else, but I have to admit that sometimes I worried that wasn't all going to them, actually. Checks were given to their caretakers. um... but also I knew the company I worked for got a credit for some of their pay. I don't know how much, but I was assured this didn't affect the employees.
You're a beam of Sun in the Dark Night. I'm proud of you.
This episode was a roller coaster of emotions!🎢
Somewhat related: SSDI needs to actually pay a living wage. Right now I'm not even getting the equivalent of a full time job at the $7.25 minimum wage. The only way I can survive is by working a part time job that thankfully actually pays a decent amount per hour.
Sounds about right. I’m 100 percent disabled via Veterans Affairs but my monthly pay basically covers the basics. I barely scrape by each month for a small apartment and just enough for food.
This is the crux of the issue. The whole purpose of having a minimum wage in the first place is that it be enough for a person to support themselves. That it's not sufficient even for many able bodied people means that something needs to be done. For the disabled, even if the government is giving some money directly to them, that should be in order to help account for the higher costs of living associated with their disability, not an excuse for employers to get away with paying them pennies on the dollar.
Oh, it's worse than that! If you're going to attempt to work while on SSDI, you can earn $80, then they take 50c from every benefit dollar for every $1 earned. And if you *have* $2,000 in assets, they'll cut benefits entirely. That's barely a month of rent in most large cities. And if somehow you manage to be "gainfully employed" (earning any wage above $80/month) for a couple years, they remove you from the program entirely. An update is long overdue.
@@sirdeadlock Yup, they even have the audacity to declare you legally "Not-Disabled" as justification. Like, yeah my part-time teaching job magically fixed my hearing and spine, right...
That's exactly what is America all about... 99% of people having to work two, three even four jobs to allow the remaining 1% provide for their families for 2,3,4 or 5 generations. I'm gutted
There are several issues to consider here. Disabled receive SSI (supplimental security income) from our government. And I'm pretty sure every state has funding to help disabled [and families with disabled] to get by. Also every "case" is different. My son is 35 but mentally about 2 year old level. He cannot hold any job reliably enough to earn a wage. But we get by just fine with gov. and state funding. This sub-minimum wage allows disabled to earn some "spending money" and to feel self-respect and value in the community. On the other hand, a person with normal mental ability but physically handicapped would feel like a second-rate citizen by the same sub-minimum wage. Every case is different!
That's messed up
Thank you for sharing this story. I was shocked when I saw my autistic niece making 25 cents an hour….yes it’s the most basic labor, but it seems unfair 😞
How sad. Where does she work?
It is absolutely unfair. There is no such thing as unskilled labor, only undervalued labor.
22 cents and hour, so on an 8 hour workday that adds up to $1.76. To put this into perspective, economists generally use the $2 a day benchmark as a definition for the extremely impoverished. They're supposed to live in countries where cost of living is nowhere near US levels
All of the people I've met with disabilities work harder than their nondisabled counterparts. Thank you for bringing this issue to light. Just a sad situation for our most vulnerable citizens. 😔
Goodwill is one of the worst companies out there for exactly this. Think of a company where you pay nothing for stock and hire disabled employees (to SEEM helpful) and pay them garbage. Seems like a sweet business model.
Scooter in many instances goodwill in Oregon displaces disabled workers in favor of hiring Mexican immigrants! They also discriminate against men when hiring store managers! I won't even shop in their stores!
Goodwill is a nonprofit. They literally aren't allowed to make money.
@@TheDivegeek Ha! You must look into how much they pay their top tier employees, the ceo alone makes $2.3 million a year from his "Goodwill" stores. Nonprofits are very lucrative ways for wealthy people to invest into philanthropy. Yes, INVEST IN PHILANTHROPY!
@@oldfogey4679 I don't understand why employing immigrants needs to be mentioned...that has NOTHING to do with exploiting the disabled.
@@TheDivegeek They make A LOT of money for not being allowed to do so…
What should be looked into more : these employers who do pay let’s say pennies per hour, how much are they profiting off the labor?
I get that the sheltered workshops may have a hard time paying livable wages. Many companies with a social goal struggle with that. But paying pennies is an insult and seems like a scam.
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS LEGAL ABLEISM
Trevor please keep covering disability rights issues, it’s SO needed in our country!! I recently became disabled due to an autoimmune disease (in a wheelchair now and very ill) and I’ve been astounded with how subpar disabled people are treated. We need our day of reckoning in the American spotlight like Black Lives Matter had! There’s so much injustice to uncover and report on. Please keep digging! It puts pressure on the powers that be to treat us like human beings. Thank you!
It's worse that disabled people are judged worse than an abled person.
Because this disgusting country assigns value to people based on whether or not they can work.
The idea that you don't work, you have no value is disgusting.
Bravo on addressing this issue! It is awesome that you are shining some light on the subject, but it is more complicated. The truth is most people working in sheltered workshops are not Stephen Hawking.
It is true that everyone has value and no one should be exploited, however, it also makes sense that there should be different parameters for sheltered workshops. The workshops are a combination of vocational training, social supports, and disability accommodations that surpass what any traditional employer has set up. And often it is the training , support, and most importantly advocacy of the sheltered workshop that gets capable disabled people into traditional employment that they would not have otherwise been able to attain.
Sheltered workshops are regulated by several different agencies and should continue to be so. They do not get a free pass but they should be able to have different rules than traditional employers.
Yes, no one should be exploited. Sheltered workshops are exploitation, simple as that. Paying any worker below minimum wage, which is already not a living wage, and regardless of accommodations (which are covered under the ADA), is abhorrent. This is just a way for employers to get incredibly cheap labor, which lines the pockets of higher-ups.
@@FromErinsLibrary I hear you but it is not always that simple. In some places, it is the sheltered workshops that are providing the advocacy that transitions people to fully paid employment. Without them, many disabled people would not have a chance at all. Of course, improvements can always be made. But a program that offers life skills, supports, and other structure and benefits way beyond a traditional employer may need different standards.
@@sandyedwards2681We can train and help disabled people find employment without paying them cents an hour. Nondisabled people wouldn't be expected to do that, outside of unpaid internships - which are also exploitative.
I'm so glad people are finally talking about this!
Next, can we talk about how disabled folks can't even get married without forfeiting all their benefits, even if they're marrying another disabled person?
One missing bit of info here is that people with disabilities often have health care and other benefits through Medicaid and state waivers. Earning money beyond a fairly low threshold gets them kicked off… it’s a tricky situation.
In the US you get kicked off? Here in Germany it may reduce some of your benefits via taxes, but the safety net remains. And not to forget: we have free universal healthcar for everybody.
@@danihesslinger7968 welcome to Amuricah!
@@Dbb27 Can't send a smiley, because ot all so sad.
There's a limit in the US. For instance in 2021 a single disabled person could not make more than$1,310 USD before any taxes. Which means at $7.25 USD/Hour, a disabled person could work around 44 Hours/Week at most and still collect disability.
However I have found out that more than $990 USD causes one of 9 Trial Work Months to be used. If a disabled person uses all 9 (and not even in a row, or even in the same year, but *ever*), they lose their disability funding
I have a retinal disease that is taking my vision. It is infuriating that my worth is tied to a genetic disease that I have no control over. I am still a very capable and skilled person who cares about what I contribute. Disabled should not mean disqualified from being able to earn a living wage.
You shouldn't tie your worth to your productivity in the first place.
Disability rights need to be featured more on The Daily show and other platforms that are more in touch with the public culturally.
Yep.
as a disabled person I used to be a fan of Trevor Noah but after hearing this I'm a whole air conditioner
This is complicated. I agree with Evelyn Turner, that if sheltered workshops go away, those with severe disabilities will be chronically unemployed.
I also agree with Ken and the others that he should be paid a higher wage with his skills.
However, those who argued (successfully, I believe) that they should be paid a higher wage are those with physical disabilities, without intellectual disabilities, such as Ken (from my observations).
The cold, hard truth is, that someone like my teenage son, who has intellectual disabilities and no physical disabilities, will not be able to go out into the workforce and find a "regular" job. Eliminating sheltered workshops will eliminate his work opportunities.
There are also issues about Medicaid. Some states have eligibility restrictions of monthly incomes no more than $800. Losing Medicaid is a death sentence for some disabled adults. You cannot work a minimum wage, full time job and receive Medicaid. I wish The Daily Show would have mentioned that.
yes.
I had no idea… this is absolutely disgusting that companies take advantage of people like this!
As someone who has a disability and lives on welfare, it is honestly easier for me to NOT work than it is to work. Even if I did work and did get paid minimum wage...that's also all I'd get! And with the increase in my cost of living (not to mention things like transportation costs and whatnot), I'd essentially be back at square one anyways. So what's the point of wasting my time with all of that when the only winning move is not to play?
It doesn't mean I'm sitting on my laurels all the time. I do volunteer work sometimes, both for charities and political stuff alike. Even ran for city council. Didn't win, but it was fun being recognized in public because I ran.
Run for a higher office. There’s many that run unopposed.
Just don't get caught doing volunteer work, they may decide you aren't disabled.
If I had a choice between having a job that paid minimum wages (and lower), and having no job and no money, I would choose to have no job. My time has value to me, and I'd rather spend that time doing my hobbies than not being paid fairly for the hours of my finite life I'm essentially wasting for other people's benefit. This whole talk of "But if nobody hires the disabled, what are they going to do with their lives?" annoys me. As if working was the meaning of life.
Yeah. There are tons of things people do with their day that aren't working. I do disability care for intellectually and developmentally disabled adults.
I have had some clients who wanted to work. But plenty just don't see the need/understand it. And they have plenty of things they do with their lives.
They don't need to get a job, but they can thanks to the loophole
How does the ADA and similar legislation not override this? This feels like the literal definition of discrimination on the basis of a protected category.
Using disabled people in this market is abhorrent
Are we just not going to talk about how Goodwill is literally built on this principle?
It's so easy for people to say "That __X__ isn't my problem, so I shouldn't have to be bothered by it", but it's like no dude, it's ALWAYS everyone's problem *eventually*... our only choice is whether we address our collective problems through PREVENTION or through RESPONSE. Prevention seems more economical to me, but many people appear to disagree.
That’s what I’m like too!
THANK YOU for COVERING THIS. EVERY WORD OF IT. From dismissing disability to people saying Oh, Yeah I Got That, Too to sub pay discrimination.
An opposing view: My sister-in-law has Down syndrome and intellectually isn’t high enough to do basically any real jobs. That said, she has a job doing cleaning work at local elementary schools alongside other people with severe intellectual disabilities. I believe she gets paid by the task, which doesn’t work out to a lot of money, since she’s nowhere as efficient as a Nuro typical. In many ways, her “job” is a place for her to get hang out with other people with Downs and a scheduled opportunity to get her out of the house. They watch movies at work, have parties, and make deep friendships. My sister LOVES her job and this community of hers would go away if they were required to pay minimum wage. While morally it is wrong to pay someone a lower wage just because of a disability, these programs do have a time and place where they are socially important and helpful to those with disabilities and their families. Rather than outlawing them all together, maybe we can find a middle ground, where someone with a physical disability or an intellectual difference can make fair wages and live independently on their wages, while still giving those that will always be dependent on a caretaker the opportunity to get out of their homes and have a community.
SWEATSHOPS....is what comes to mind
Wages should be automatically proportional to inflation.
I personally think that disabled people work WAY harder than able-bodied people hands down, and have an amazing work ethic! If anything they should be paid more than non-disabled people.
This is why we need unions in workplaces! Individually The 1% and businesses can keep getting away with this BS in unity all of us can raise the minimum wage and fight for our brothers and sisters!!!
Blu gang union must go. It and gov protects serial killers.
Yep.
The regulation that employers are allowed to pay the disabled employees less than their counterparts is absolutely criminal and inhumane. I have a disability, live in Germany and have two jobs. I’m not paid more or less than my coworkers. The only benefit my companies get is the exemption from a disability tax.
This what’s being allowed to happen in America with people with disabilities is absolutely shocking to me. Can’t imagine it.
We all know what this is about and where it comes from. This is about the fragments of our past that are still haunting us. Disabled people have been tormented for years and we are seeing the final stages of this torment, the people will fight for equity and the human rights of disabled people but it needs to happen soon. Communities can make differences in the movement for freedom although it takes a lot of time and generations of people to make long term changes.
You’re a bot also aren’t you?
And just like that, after all of this, after everything, knowing that people, able bodied people earning a starvation wage, to learn that the most undeniably vulnerable people are treated like that... the last struggling spark of hope in me is just snuffed out... I don't believe in violence, but honestly, I am at a complete loss at this
Dont worry this made it look a lot worse then it actually is. Remember that all these people are supported through SSI. This is just a way for them to be a productive member of society to the best of their ability.
@@williamjenkins4913 SSI hardly provides any financial support at all. And disabled people lose that support if they get married or get more than $2k in assets. Also, medical care for disabled people is often more expensive. If a disabled person is judged as earning “too much”, they lose their support and end up receiving less money from working than they would from just being at home.
@@paltheporg7821 Yes that program has some big issues that need to be worked out. While tangentially related they are not issues with 14c though. The best option would be to fix SSI and leave 14c in place for people that need/want it.
I believe you are a troll.
@@williamjenkins4913 and you, you’re a bot, correct? No one has a natural cadence that matches to your wording…
If only there was a way to make sure the disabled people would still have enough money to live, even if they can not be exploited for cents per hour, like idk give them disability checks that they can survive on?
And then let them add the money they chose to make at a sheltered workshop up to a certain amount, so if they want to work there, they still can?
Sometimes solutions are that easy, like how Finnland recently solved their homelessness problem by, get this: Providing housing to the homeless free of charge.
Nothing in this country is a surprise to me anymore, America is not the country I thought it was
Glad you’re waking up, welcome 🙏🏿😀
@@israelitenephite2422 took her long enough..
@@acunhisesi1014 I’m reporting all of your comments.
@@jeanetteasmyself442 so am I. Every time a different reason. It's disgusting to have spam when we're talking about something serious. It's like driving an ice cream van (playing music) behind a funeral procession
@@lenawagenfuehr53 Agreed. Like, the hub is free. I’m sure people aren’t gonna click on some shady link.
It’s gross.
Something else they don’t seem to understand is in most cases, cost of living is more expensive for a disabled person than it is for an able bodied person simply due to any and all accommodations and/or services the disabled person may need, both inside and outside their home. In other words, spending more but earning less makes life that much more difficult for those who are already at a major disadvantage.
What about the ADA law? Technically paying disabled people a wage lower than minimum wage is a form of discrimination towards disabled people.
I think the counterargument is that if the law wasn't in place, people with disabilities would be discriminated against more because employers wouldn't want to hire them. I think the lower pay acts as an incentive for employers to hire them, which is obviously messed up but I think that's the reasoning it isn't illegal under the ADA
Evil.
$0.20-0.30 per hour is literally prison "pseudo slavery" wages.
These programs are necessary to protect the human rights of severely disabled people to be productive involved members of society to the best of their ability. The simple fact is that no one is going to hire someone that requires a full time coach to do 30 minutes of work a day. It would be unreasonable to require it.
There are some big misconceptions people have about these programs. It's not meant for people with mild/medium disabilities. It's for low functioning people. It's not meant to be an income to rely on for survival. There are other programs for basic living expenses. The programs (mostly) are not profiting off the disabled. They are providing a charity to get people out of the house and socializing while letting them earn a small amount of disposable income they otherwise would never have access to.
That said the system does need better regulation and monitoring. Also SSI needs to be improved so that people are not trying to use programs like this for actual income.
If you literally can't work for money maybe we should just work to find other ways that you can participate in society. There are lots of other ways.
@@viy2959 I agree. Just dont take away the charity programs for people that want to participate in capitalism. I would love if we all moved away from "earning money" as an important measure but as long as it is then we need do be inclusive in our bad habits. Dont make someone feel like an outsider then tell them its for their best.
@@williamjenkins4913 I'm inclined to agree. I'd be okay with say, using those charities to subsidize companies. As opposed to paying disabled people less? Just one thought.
Or work harder at finding jobs that actually suit people? Even severely disabled people have things they could do well. Just sometimes those are very specific things. If we did better at job training that could help a lot.
I don't know exactly what the solution is. But the subminimum wage isn't it.
If that disabled employee is willing to go to work they should get more than that. They even know the value of a dollar, have wants, and want a normal life
And if they don't understand money they don't understand that they are being taken advantage of and that is just extra messed up.
They still need a minimum wage for the disabled too,no less than 3 dollars an hour than the Minimum wage. Heck cents per hour aren't even sweatshop wages
This is great that this is being covered. Disabled people tend to get pushed into the background. 'Out of sight, out of mind.' As the daughter of a woman with multiple sclerosis, the aunt of a nephew with down syndrome, & the wife of a man with scoliosis & kyphosis, I've seen discrimination against disabled people take many different forms. The worst thing is that if you try to bring attention to it, it's seen as proof that the person is not able to handle the responsibilities or work.
Those places are to REMOVE THE DISABLED from the regular workforce, not integrate them into it...then put them in near servitude for the duration of their ability to do so
How is this even humane ?🙆🏿♀️🤦🏿♀️
It's not.
@@nonna_sof5889 exactly.
The people arguing against the subminimum wage need to just stop trying to be helpful when they don't understand the issues. The subminimum wage may sound horrible, but in many cases this is a godsend. My disabled son used to be able to work in a sheltered workshop getting paid per item produced. He was making about $1/hour. He loved it. It was an important part of his day. It was an activity that he could learn and be successful at. A "normal" person would have been able to work many times faster, so my son was actually earning a fair wage for what he did, but it would have been worth it if he had been paid nothing at all.
What happened was some do-gooders showed up and closed down the state-run disabled services program, and now my son's life is worse, more boring, and less stimulating and he is a 100% economic drag on society instead of a 99% economic drag.
So a machine somewhere is doing my son's work or else a child in Thailand is doing my son's work, and my son can sit and look out of the window as an activity.
Argh!!!
This happened to my uncle. He had the same work ethic as the rest of the family,he took the bus every day until he was 70 years old. At a sheltered workshop. No benefits,he never understood why he didn't have a pension. It was very sad and unfair.
This is nothing new, and I’m glad that it is finally getting some attention in the media. Goodwill is one of the worst companies that takes advantage of this loophole.
I'm going to avoid them like the plague they are!
Ive met alot of "disabled" people in my life and its BS they get treated like this.
Im disabled, too. And the worst part of trying for state job help is that they would only offer warehouse jobs. My muscles are very weak, especially in my arms. Warehouse jobs were not going to work. So I had to give up on any disability job help and go on my own. Haven't even gotten any response from anywhere yet!
My uncle dealt with this for ages. He liked working. Felt fulfillment from it. But it was not even a wage to be honest.
Funny how it's *mainly*(edit) the cognitively disabled (or appearing to be cognitively disabled) that are exploited in this way.
It is exploitation! No other word for it (that isn't a four letter word!)
Right. It's people who don't necessarily understand and are easy to take advantage of. (Some of them could understand, I'm sure. But it would have to explained to them.)
Some state laws provide more protection than the federal law. An employer has to be in compliance with both. The state of Maryland no longer allows the sub-minimum wage for disabled employees. All employees are required to receive the states minimum wage, which is higher than the federal minimum wage. With that being said, if the rest of the states do as Maryland, then this would no longer be an issue. MW is increased in states, based on the cost of living in that particular state.
and that is why there are no disabled people working in maryland?
in my hometown the high school hires disabled students to give them "real world" training and they're barely paid. not to mention they're hired as janitors.
There are countries where the state pays the difference. Meaning the employers are still motivated to hire disabled people for lower cost to the employer, but the disabled people are still paid minimum wage. Sub-minimum shouldn't be a thing at all, for anyone.
In the US the difference is made up by SSI. That program has its own problems but dont let this incomplete report lead you to believe this is their only income.
@@williamjenkins4913 oh wow.
Man! Talk about needing a system overhaul. This is tough. My dear friend has an adult autistic son who works at a sheltered workshop and he loves it. There’s no way he can work in a traditional work environment so if he didn’t have his job at the nonprofit he would sit home. I also am very familiar with these nonprofits and they wouldn’t be able to help as many people as they do if they were forced to pay minimum wage. Also unless corporations have a “quota” and are forced to do so, they just won’t hire anyone who is disabled over someone who isn’t for the same pay. Tough tough issue and thanks for bringing it up Trevor!
There has to be a better solution in a first world country.
@@sunshine3914 there is...see examples given by people from Germany or Sweden. And the USA is a third world country.
Man this seems like something that viewing medical care and food/housing as a right in this country would fix
This is why l refuse to support goodwill. They are evil.
Now that I know, I certainly will avoid them!
I wasn't aware that this was an issue. Now I know. And I agree, that the "loophole" should be closed. I would have no issue paying anyone full time regular wage so long as they also make me money in return, this of course assumes I run a business.
In addition to the SSI and/or disability check, and the larger personal tax deduction and guaranteed acceptance and max benefits from every social program, albeit, minimum should be the same for all, and a lot higher than what it is, my company hires the mentally challenged, but gets a larger tax exemption for it along with federal and state reimbursement for their pay, doesn't make sense to pat them less if you are just given the money back out of the social security money all the able bodied people pay out of their checks also.