NA type 1 (and in Europe type 2) CCS bidirectional charging is in a transition phase... So standardization is coming, but there maybe more than 1 standard, for a while, just like Betamax vs VHS.... or in this case AC vs DC CCS bidirectional charging protocols.... With a few companies already marketing products for NA., such as AUTEL, Wallbox and dcbel
@@nc3826 The ISO for bidirectional charging over CCS was finalized / released in April 2022. Really looking forward to hearing more from Wallbox at CES. ISO 15118-20:2022
@@kleeenco nope, since CharIN is in charge of the CCS standard not ISO.... ISO establishing the protocols is just an interim step.... and how the protocols, are utilized by OEMs, is another issue...
@@kleeenco fwiw I did not interject The ISO protocols.... since it just becomes techno babble to most people.... and it adds little to no value, to address what the person's asking....
My understanding is that ChaDeMo offers bidirectional charging right out of the box. But is difficult to implement in the US due to code constraints and limitations put in place by utilities. Do you have any knowledge about that? Because I would definitely be interested in buying a beat-down, half-dead Leaf for the teenager to drive to and from high school and otherwise be plugged in and offering backup capability and maybe even islanding for the solar panels.
What utility constraints and limitations? Besides a transfer switch, to prevent the Backup Power from back feeding to the grid, which could electrocute a lineman... ChaDeMo bidirectional chargers, did not get to NA... But the dcbel R16 has that capability....But it's designed to be used as part of a multifunction system.... It would be very pricey to use for just that single application....
I power my home in an emergency from the 7200 watt 240 volt receptical. Works great and powers everything in my home including my 240 volt deep well pump. Why in the world would anyone want to spend $4k for the Sunrun home backup system and probably another $4k for installation. Not to mention, many people are having problems getting this to work.
I’m %100 agree with you and info provided In addition : Celling cover is tin and sun heat cooks my head I’m not happy with my truck finding charging stations out there , cost to charge and time spend out there waiting is not worth for busy contractors👎👎👎👎 I called the sales person 3-4 times to buy it back for $25000 less - still waiting for call back
I love my lightning. I did a lot of research on the charging infrastructure that it uses and found insufficient charging station, ridiculously high kwh costs. If I had to depend on these chargers I wouldn't have purchased my lightning. I use it locally and charge at home. It has replaced both my 2018 prius which got over 50 mpg and my 2014 F150 which got a whopping 10 mpg and gets better mileage equivalent range than both those vehicles and does a much better job than they both did. All this and little to zero maintenance. With my lightning.
It's a good idea, but too expensive. If you're trying to keep your solar going in a blackout, just get a battery. Plus, I'd never have anything to do with SunRun.
As we move towards more solar and wind power generation, this sort of EV bi-directional power needs to become standardized. Charge the car when power is being generated during noontime, power homes at peak demand in the evening, then trickle charge the cars back up for the commute from midnight through 6 am.
First it's not intended for that purpose, It's for backup power.....second most people at work during that period of time when the sun is shining... battery swapping, between different sized battery pack Is a much practical alternative, utilizing excess capacity to balance the grid.... and NIO is already doing it.... IMHO..... but time will tell which approach becomes more practical....
@@nc3826 True, but that shouldn't be a show stopper. In Los Angeles everyone I know who has an EV primarily charges at work since they live in apartments.
There are many issues with the Sunrun system. I'm happy just using the 7200 watt receptical in my trucks bed to power my essential equipment during an emergency.
What good is an automatic transfer system that doesn't work. I'll stick with my manual system. In fact during a severe storm go ahead and turn the main off and power your home with your lightning. This will ensure no outage during the storm.
Thanks so much Alex. Great information. I live in Columbus Ohio. I am getting an extended Lightning and want to install the capability for the Lightning to power my home. I don't believe Sunrun services my area so I don't even have the option of having them install the equipment. I have two questions. First of all, will most electricians know what has to be done to hook this system up? And secondly, I have a solar photovoltaic system. Can I use the solar panels to charge the batteries on the Lightning, and in order to do it, does my home have to be disconnected from the grid? Thanks so much for your help.
Using the 80 amp charger on a solar system will require a minimum of 20,000 watts of solar and an inverter capable of handling the same. I have a relatively large solar system 13kw solar but can only charge from my system using the 7200 watt 240 volt charger that came with my truck. My 80 amp is strictly connected to the grid. And even with that much solar it often depletes my batteries when there's insufficient sun. Consequently, I seldom charge my lightning using my solar system. However, I have used my 240 volt bed receptical to power my home in an emergency. Works great without all the expensive costs of the Sunrun system which seems to have many flaws.
I think it worth it if you live in folrida with hurrricanes and were already going to get thhe lighting... as our black outs are just from hurricanes and other weather which these days means no power for up to a week and you do't have to fuss with a generator each hurricane season.
But one can just plug it in, to it set of built inverters, at a fraction of the cost.... So is it worth 10 times as much, just to make it slightly more automated? And if the power outages happen, when you're not charging the vehicle, It's not automated at all....
NA type 1 (and in Europe type 2) CCS bidirectional charging is in a transition phase... So standardization is coming, but there maybe more than 1 standard, for a while, just like Betamax vs VHS.... or in this case AC vs DC CCS bidirectional charging protocols.... With a few companies already marketing products for NA., such as AUTEL, Wallbox and dcbel
@@kleeenco nope, since CharIN is in charge of the CCS standard not ISO.... ISO establishing the protocols is just an interim step.... and how the protocols, are utilized by OEMs, is another issue....
All EV makers need to jump on this, it's SUCH an easy feature for them to add but so many of them are dragging their feet and farking around with self driving nonsense.
It’s super expensive for what it is. 11 years ago I spent $2000 for a portable generator, transfer switch and electrician so that I have 8 essential circuits powered ie well pump, fridges, freezer, office(internet), some lights. I have 30 amps to work with.
Is it worth it? Are you crazy? backup generators go for like $5000. That truck is like 10 powerwalls and you say it only can power your home for a couple days? You're using massively more than most people...avg days for most homes is like 20-30kwh.
I just use the 240 volt 7200 watt bed receptical and it powers my entire home just fine. Average homes seldom use more than 30 kwh a day. And being sensible during a power outage most people could cut that usage in half, doubling the number of days the lightning could power your home.
Actually compared to normal driving or using it to power your home there's little difference. The average home uses 30 kwh a day. If you drive your lightning 60 miles a day and achieve 2 miles per kwh then you will use 30 kwh from your battery a day.
My house already is wired for a 30 amp 240v plug for a gas generator. This would be plug and play into the current system through the 7.2kw connector. No reason to not use this this way
The 7200 watt 240 volt receptical has a bonded ground neutral so if the receptical that your generator plugs into also has a bonded ground neutral you'll get a ground fault error on your lightnings sync screen. I've found an easy work around is to leave the ground wire disconnected on the dropcord I use to connect my lightning to that receptical. This isn't a problem since both main service panel and the lightning have a neutral that's bonded to ground. So the truck will still have the same ground potential as the main service panel via its bonded neutral.
My F-150 is my third source after the electric company and my generator. I hope I never have to use my F-150 to power my home because that would mean something awful happened.
Same here except my solar is my primary with the grid acting as secondary and my 11 kw generac next and finally my lightning if all else fails. Keeping in mind the 7200 watt receptical in the bed of the truck has a grounded neutral so if your generator plug that you plan to connect your lightning to, also has a bonded neutral you'll need to leave the ground wire from the truck disconnected on the dropcord used to connect your truck, else you'll get a ground fault error on your sync screen. There's no issue in leaving the ground disconnected because the trucks neutral is bonded to ground and your main service panel is bonded to ground. So physically your trucks neutral and ground are connected to the service panels neutral and ground.
You probably mention it somewhere but the automatic backup inverter will only feed 9kw back into the house. For the amount of money the setup costs, a 9kw inverter is ridiculous. *Especially* when the truck already has a 7.2kw inverter built into the bed outlets! Why go through all of the trouble & expense to have no real improvement in capability? The convenience of a few circuits being on a 100% automated, Ford proprietary system? Anyone who installs this system & can't write this off as a UA-cam car reviewer just likes to set money on fire.
FORD is the 1st & only to offer this to its customers... its great, there are people that want to be on the bleeding edge of tech and not afraid to pay for it
My crew installed a Sunrun inverter intelligent backup system and it sucks. The software sucks, we hooked up the wiring correctly and it took about 2 hours in order for the system to start back feeding. We called Ford and said contact Sunrun. So we called Sunrun and they said call Ford. And because Sunrun doesn’t operate in Oregon they basically said F*** You. There are so many software quirks it isn’t worth the cost. There a way better options for the price. By the way Sunrun are crooks.
Alex, This is perfectly timed with today's (Dec 22, 2022) severe weather. Why did UA-cam drop the date stamp? 🤔
Dang I get the proprietary aspect for Ford, but would be nice to have a universal standard that allows current and future EVs the same capability.
NA type 1 (and in Europe type 2) CCS bidirectional charging is in a transition phase... So standardization is coming, but there maybe more than 1 standard, for a while, just like Betamax vs VHS.... or in this case AC vs DC CCS bidirectional charging protocols.... With a few companies already marketing products for NA., such as AUTEL, Wallbox and dcbel
@@nc3826 The ISO for bidirectional charging over CCS was finalized / released in April 2022. Really looking forward to hearing more from Wallbox at CES. ISO 15118-20:2022
@@kleeenco nope, since CharIN is in charge of the CCS standard not ISO.... ISO establishing the protocols is just an interim step.... and how the protocols, are utilized by OEMs, is another issue...
@@kleeenco fwiw I did not interject The ISO protocols.... since it just becomes techno babble to most people.... and it adds little to no value, to address what the person's asking....
Thanks Alex. I love the idea of a sub-panel and transfer switch. I will start a discussion with my electrician on that option.
All I hear is $$$ thank u for this. No one is in it to help the little guy these days.
My understanding is that ChaDeMo offers bidirectional charging right out of the box. But is difficult to implement in the US due to code constraints and limitations put in place by utilities. Do you have any knowledge about that? Because I would definitely be interested in buying a beat-down, half-dead Leaf for the teenager to drive to and from high school and otherwise be plugged in and offering backup capability and maybe even islanding for the solar panels.
What utility constraints and limitations? Besides a transfer switch, to prevent the Backup Power from back feeding to the grid, which could electrocute a lineman...
ChaDeMo bidirectional chargers, did not get to NA... But the dcbel R16 has that capability....But it's designed to be used as part of a multifunction system.... It would be very pricey to use for just that single application....
I power my home in an emergency from the 7200 watt 240 volt receptical. Works great and powers everything in my home including my 240 volt deep well pump. Why in the world would anyone want to spend $4k for the Sunrun home backup system and probably another $4k for installation. Not to mention, many people are having problems getting this to work.
I’m %100 agree with you and info provided
In addition : Celling cover is tin and sun heat cooks my head
I’m not happy with my truck finding charging stations out there , cost to charge and time spend out there waiting is not worth for busy contractors👎👎👎👎
I called the sales person 3-4 times to buy it back for $25000 less - still waiting for call back
I love my lightning. I did a lot of research on the charging infrastructure that it uses and found insufficient charging station, ridiculously high kwh costs. If I had to depend on these chargers I wouldn't have purchased my lightning. I use it locally and charge at home. It has replaced both my 2018 prius which got over 50 mpg and my 2014 F150 which got a whopping 10 mpg and gets better mileage equivalent range than both those vehicles and does a much better job than they both did. All this and little to zero maintenance. With my lightning.
It's a good idea, but too expensive. If you're trying to keep your solar going in a blackout, just get a battery. Plus, I'd never have anything to do with SunRun.
Thanks
As we move towards more solar and wind power generation, this sort of EV bi-directional power needs to become standardized. Charge the car when power is being generated during noontime, power homes at peak demand in the evening, then trickle charge the cars back up for the commute from midnight through 6 am.
First it's not intended for that purpose, It's for backup power.....second most people at work during that period of time when the sun is shining...
battery swapping, between different sized battery pack Is a much practical alternative, utilizing excess capacity to balance the grid.... and NIO is already doing it.... IMHO..... but time will tell which approach becomes more practical....
@@nc3826 True, but that shouldn't be a show stopper. In Los Angeles everyone I know who has an EV primarily charges at work since they live in apartments.
@@ShadowRaptor8 the show stopper is the far greater complexity, of "remote" bidirectional power/charging logistics...
Do you know if this will be compatible with existing solar install and if so, will it charge while in intelligent backup mode?
I would love to see how it works with a Rivian since they use similar battery voltages.
Some research on that 80 amp EVSE, a lot of owners are having issues with them overheating.
There are many issues with the Sunrun system. I'm happy just using the 7200 watt receptical in my trucks bed to power my essential equipment during an emergency.
What good is an automatic transfer system that doesn't work. I'll stick with my manual system. In fact during a severe storm go ahead and turn the main off and power your home with your lightning. This will ensure no outage during the storm.
Thanks so much Alex. Great information. I live in Columbus Ohio. I am getting an extended Lightning and want to install the capability for the Lightning to power my home. I don't believe Sunrun services my area so I don't even have the option of having them install the equipment. I have two questions. First of all, will most electricians know what has to be done to hook this system up? And secondly, I have a solar photovoltaic system. Can I use the solar panels to charge the batteries on the Lightning, and in order to do it, does my home have to be disconnected from the grid? Thanks so much for your help.
Using the 80 amp charger on a solar system will require a minimum of 20,000 watts of solar and an inverter capable of handling the same. I have a relatively large solar system 13kw solar but can only charge from my system using the 7200 watt 240 volt charger that came with my truck. My 80 amp is strictly connected to the grid. And even with that much solar it often depletes my batteries when there's insufficient sun.
Consequently, I seldom charge my lightning using my solar system. However, I have used my 240 volt bed receptical to power my home in an emergency. Works great without all the expensive costs of the Sunrun system which seems to have many flaws.
I think it worth it if you live in folrida with hurrricanes and were already going to get thhe lighting... as our black outs are just from hurricanes and other weather which these days means no power for up to a week and you do't have to fuss with a generator each hurricane season.
But one can just plug it in, to it set of built inverters, at a fraction of the cost....
So is it worth 10 times as much, just to make it slightly more automated? And if the power outages happen, when you're not charging the vehicle, It's not automated at all....
The Japanese Honda Clarity does basic "reverse" power too, but alas, my US Clarity does not. Would help if power goes out in the next couple days
What's the chance the US gets a universal standard for vehicle to home? Or are we just gonna several proprietary options going forward?
NA type 1 (and in Europe type 2) CCS bidirectional charging is in a transition phase... So standardization is coming, but there maybe more than 1 standard, for a while, just like Betamax vs VHS.... or in this case AC vs DC CCS bidirectional charging protocols.... With a few companies already marketing products for NA., such as AUTEL, Wallbox and dcbel
@@nc3826 ISO 15118-20:2022 - The ISO for bidirectional charging over CCS was finalized / released in April 2022.
@@kleeenco nope, since CharIN is in charge of the CCS standard not ISO.... ISO establishing the protocols is just an interim step.... and how the protocols, are utilized by OEMs, is another issue....
It's funny that no one saw an issue with abbreviating their company name to "FOMO Co"
All EV makers need to jump on this, it's SUCH an easy feature for them to add but so many of them are dragging their feet and farking around with self driving nonsense.
It’s super expensive for what it is. 11 years ago I spent $2000 for a portable generator, transfer switch and electrician so that I have 8 essential circuits powered ie well pump, fridges, freezer, office(internet), some lights. I have 30 amps to work with.
Exactly what I have. But instead of plugging in a generator, I plug in my truck into my receptical.
Is it worth it? Are you crazy? backup generators go for like $5000. That truck is like 10 powerwalls and you say it only can power your home for a couple days? You're using massively more than most people...avg days for most homes is like 20-30kwh.
I just use the 240 volt 7200 watt bed receptical and it powers my entire home just fine. Average homes seldom use more than 30 kwh a day. And being sensible during a power outage most people could cut that usage in half, doubling the number of days the lightning could power your home.
Doesn’t it wear out the Lightning battery faster, too?
Ford executives on a different channel, stated that Ford doesn't "currently" see that as an issue... fwiw....
I can't imagine it's much different than spending a day out driving.
Actually compared to normal driving or using it to power your home there's little difference. The average home uses 30 kwh a day. If you drive your lightning 60 miles a day and achieve 2 miles per kwh then you will use 30 kwh from your battery a day.
My house already is wired for a 30 amp 240v plug for a gas generator. This would be plug and play into the current system through the 7.2kw connector. No reason to not use this this way
The 7200 watt 240 volt receptical has a bonded ground neutral so if the receptical that your generator plugs into also has a bonded ground neutral you'll get a ground fault error on your lightnings sync screen. I've found an easy work around is to leave the ground wire disconnected on the dropcord I use to connect my lightning to that receptical. This isn't a problem since both main service panel and the lightning have a neutral that's bonded to ground. So the truck will still have the same ground potential as the main service panel via its bonded neutral.
My F-150 is my third source after the electric company and my generator. I hope I never have to use my F-150 to power my home because that would mean something awful happened.
Same here except my solar is my primary with the grid acting as secondary and my 11 kw generac next and finally my lightning if all else fails. Keeping in mind the 7200 watt receptical in the bed of the truck has a grounded neutral so if your generator plug that you plan to connect your lightning to, also has a bonded neutral you'll need to leave the ground wire from the truck disconnected on the dropcord used to connect your truck, else you'll get a ground fault error on your sync screen. There's no issue in leaving the ground disconnected because the trucks neutral is bonded to ground and your main service panel is bonded to ground. So physically your trucks neutral and ground are connected to the service panels neutral and ground.
You probably mention it somewhere but the automatic backup inverter will only feed 9kw back into the house. For the amount of money the setup costs, a 9kw inverter is ridiculous. *Especially* when the truck already has a 7.2kw inverter built into the bed outlets! Why go through all of the trouble & expense to have no real improvement in capability? The convenience of a few circuits being on a 100% automated, Ford proprietary system? Anyone who installs this system & can't write this off as a UA-cam car reviewer just likes to set money on fire.
This is another good idea, bad execution. Who would use it if it is too expensive?
FORD is the 1st & only to offer this to its customers... its great, there are people
that want to be on the bleeding edge of tech and not afraid to pay for it
My crew installed a Sunrun inverter intelligent backup system and it sucks. The software sucks, we hooked up the wiring correctly and it took about 2 hours in order for the system to start back feeding. We called Ford and said contact Sunrun. So we called Sunrun and they said call Ford. And because Sunrun doesn’t operate in Oregon they basically said F*** You. There are so many software quirks it isn’t worth the cost. There a way better options for the price. By the way Sunrun are crooks.
I've heard many horror stories about the Sunrun system.
So expensive!! Dang.