FYI- Shimano 10 speed road shifters work with Shimano 9 spear mtb derailleurs. I run 105 shifters with old XTR rear derailleurs. I have a 28/42 crank with 11-42 cassette. To run a casette that big I made a spacer for my B screw because the screw doesn't go back far enough to keep the pulley from hitting the the bigger cogs. Been running this setup for years on my "Tour Divide" bike.
@@gograva Bike Gremlin has been the guy to go to for info on pull ratios, but he doesn't list the pull ratio for Shimano 12 speed road. (Shimano 11 and 12 speed MTB is around 1:1) However, all the other data, all the way back to 6 and 7 speed drivetrains is available.
Boothinator has a video on shifter pulls here on youtube and a fine resource. I'd say try the TRP hydro levers with bar end shifter, which works pretty much with all RDs. Something like what your friend Russ has collabed on with Merry Sales would work swimmingly here.
12 speed systems are still like a beta version right now,the indexing is really sensitive even if you use the same ltwoo sti and rear derailleur,plus he's doing like mullet setup in this build ,if he went 11 speed setup that's more ideal.
That is a compatibility issue. I see others mentioning Ratios, and they are correct. This is user error (No offense), but definitely correctable. I think finding a derailleur would be easier and cheaper option. No amount of "Quality Control" would fix trying to use non compatible combinations.
my ltwoo gr9 work perfectly, the issue here is cable pull ratio. if you wanna make a budget build then use all ltwoo componen use shifter to RD from them not mixing it up. thats way cheaper then using shimano RD and gonna works 100%
I hate to pile on, but I have to agree with others; feels really weird that your first reaction is to blame the vendor QA process when you appear to have incompatible components.
@@gograva I don't have an answer for you, as I have zero experience with L-Twoo. But put yourself in your audience's shoes; you have a bike shop owner/mechanic putting out a video to demonstrate their expertise [building the "ultimate monster gravel bike"] and who's willing to use components they haven't validated for interoperability. Why are you asking _us_ to find this information for you? I give you props for putting yourself out there and being transparent about your work at this shop. But OTOH maybe you should've taken more time to research this issue before publishing the video; or at worst, explaining the problem and asking for community input without jumping to conclusions. I feel like this is a tact that @pathlesspedaled has taken with similar types of videos.
That looks proper with the huge Pano GK 29x2.1” on the i29 WTB rims. I love how that 100mm Fox fork but I’m sure it’s 110x15 so it’s not compatible with my current gravel wheels or old parts bin 100x15 hubs.
Like others have said, mixing L-Twoo shifters with Shimano derailleurs will never work no matter what. If you were to get the L-Twoo derailleur that is supposed to work with the shifters, I'm guessing everything would work fine. I have no skin in this game since I could care less about L-Twoo, but it's not fair to that company to claim they don't have quality control if you don't use/install them properly. To test this yourself, leave the Shimano derailleur on there when you install the SRAM shifters and see if the shifting works. The result should be equally as bad.
@@gograva Fair point about LTwoo not having the best support, but that's where the money savings comes in. I don't think any manufacturers list out their pull ratios or other specifics. They might give you a compatibility chart on their website about their own products, but I don't think I've ever seen the big three expressly say they're not compatible with each other.
Yeahhhh, Road and MTB compatibility stopped reliably working after 9speed. 10-13 you gotta run either same road and road/ mtb and mtb, unless you use a tan pan or change shifter internals. Best bet is you can use a GR810/812 for rear. I’m running LTWoo GR9 shifters with GRX 810 rd. As a bike shop, y’all should already know that out of the box road and mtb wouldn’t mix well unless it was 9speed below or maybe you’re used to electronic shifting where you don’t run into the cable pull problem or you just run friction shifter.
This build is very interesting to me as I'm gathering parts to do the same on a lower budget. Learning from what you say about the center of gravity and top tube, stem length. I'm using an online stem comparison tool (yojii) to try and get this right. Re the Aliexpress stuff I have micronew 9 spd brifters that should work with my 9 spd Alivio derailleur but yet to try. Looking forward to your part 2 Thanks.
@@gograva this won't work, i have grx levers with deore derailleur but it works thanks to wolf tooth tanpan. considering the prices it is better to buy grx 12x derailleur with sgs cage.
L-TWOO road shifters or GRX820 shifters do not have the same pull ratio as Deore rear derailleur. Neither will shift correctly without using a Tanpan pull adapter. Or just use a GRX 12 speed rear derailleur which will have the same pull ratio as road shifters, and can run the large cassette.
The GravelKing SK's are great tires, and priced right. I've found that the 2.1's measure a little over 2.2" on a WTB i25 rim, which is refreshing after dealing with so many brands that undersize their tires (Looking at you, Specialized, Continental, and [some-but-not-all] Maxxis!) Have you ever tried applying tubeless tape with your wheel in a Park truing stand? That's my go-to method.
For your original shifters, is the cable pull different than Shimano? It's hard to use off brand parts, as we truly don't have a lot of experience with these parts. It's certainly better that it happened in the shop rather than a customer having issues. Good luck going forward.
Road/Gravel bike shifters won’t work with mountain derailleurs, they are simply not compatible, if you want to keep it budget friendly get a full GRT12 1 X 12 groupset with shifters, brakes and a derailleur
Unfortunate about the LWTOO shifters, but this reminds my of my 2017 Cannondale Quick Carbon hybrid frame which converted to a light gravel bike that I absolutely love. At 18.4 lbs with Hunt 35 Gravel wheels set and Panaracer Gravel King 32mm it rides fast! Shimano 105 groupset with XT 11-40 cassette combo.
Did you have a zero off set seat post? This is one way to shorten the effective TT and centre your position better with drop bars. I agree about sizing of frames. The ETT is more reliable to find the right stack and reach numbers. Many companies use made up numbers for frame size as no tube actually measures the number assigned. I am curious about using a front shock as this adds weight and changes your position on the bike.
With respect, I don’t think you need so much fluid in your tires. I would say 3 ounces tops in each 8 ounces in each is way more than necessary and adds a pound to your rotational weight which is effectively 3 pounds just my opinion.
You should probably not trash talk a group set if you haven’t checked Shimano’s compatibility chart and referenced poor ratios, making sure that there’s poor ratio for L2 is the same
My first watch since Pathless Pedaled sent me over. Like this kind of nerdery, but some of this comment community is a little toxic... Saying that ignorance about component compatability documented only in user forums is the fault of the consumer is some bootlicking garbage.
So you run a bike shop but don’t understand cable pull compatibility? You know all you had to do was get the Ltwoo 1x rear derailleur and it would even work with that cassette. I seriously want to know did you spend any time looking in to this before you ordered parts. Like 5 minutes on Google would have told you this.
I can’t find any pull ratio on the Ltwoo website. Maybe you can point me in the right direction. I did find plenty of people saying Ltwoo was compatible with Shimano 12 speed.
@ yea road 12sp. No one makes cable pull road shifters that work with mountain derailleurs. It’s been that way for years. You have to go electronic for that. Or you just use one of the 1x gravel groups available Ltwoo or Sram apex. Once again this is all over the Internet forums and UA-cam. Don’t blame Ltwoo for poor quality just because you don’t understand what your doing.
@ got it, not denying that things are confusing when trying to do cross compatibility stuff… you can find plenty of items on the web saying it’s compatible. But… where on the LTWoo website can I find this information?
@ I wouldn’t think they have it anywhere. Ltwoo doesn’t have any north American distribution they are only working in the Chinese domestic market. So you have to look at other UA-cam videos or forum posts about compatibility. I stopped being a pro wrench years ago but I still have a real interest in bike tech. So I do allot of watching stuff like Trace velo. Do a little research and it quickly becomes obvious Ltwo has copped Shimano right down to cable pull ratios. What I’m going after you for is 2 things. 1 trying to make a total BS clams about quality because you don’t understand something that happened way back in the 9sp days. And 2 not understanding that outside of electronic shifting road shifters have not worked with mountain derailleurs for latterly decades. There is nothing confusing about it. Just suck it up and admit you didn’t know what you were doing and jumped the gun on the video. And don’t get me started on you not knowing you couldn’t use that dropper post that’s a can of worms you don’t want to open.
I dont understand this gravel builds, any XC hardtail whit the faster mtb tires would be much much better in most trails maybe in pavement the gravel build would be a little faster
FYI- Shimano 10 speed road shifters work with Shimano 9 spear mtb derailleurs. I run 105 shifters with old XTR rear derailleurs. I have a 28/42 crank with 11-42 cassette. To run a casette that big I made a spacer for my B screw because the screw doesn't go back far enough to keep the pulley from hitting the the bigger cogs. Been running this setup for years on my "Tour Divide" bike.
This is what I'm doing too.
The Deore derailleur has a different pull ratio than GRX and road bike derailleurs, try a GRX derailleur before giving up on those shifters
@@chuckrodgers4780 what’s the pull ratio on the deore derailleur verses the Grx? Can I find that?
@@gograva Bike Gremlin has been the guy to go to for info on pull ratios, but he doesn't list the pull ratio for Shimano 12 speed road. (Shimano 11 and 12 speed MTB is around 1:1) However, all the other data, all the way back to 6 and 7 speed drivetrains is available.
Boothinator has a video on shifter pulls here on youtube and a fine resource. I'd say try the TRP hydro levers with bar end shifter, which works pretty much with all RDs. Something like what your friend Russ has collabed on with Merry Sales would work swimmingly here.
12 speed systems are still like a beta version right now,the indexing is really sensitive even if you use the same ltwoo sti and rear derailleur,plus he's doing like mullet setup in this build ,if he went 11 speed setup that's more ideal.
That is a compatibility issue. I see others mentioning Ratios, and they are correct. This is user error (No offense), but definitely correctable. I think finding a derailleur would be easier and cheaper option. No amount of "Quality Control" would fix trying to use non compatible combinations.
my ltwoo gr9 work perfectly, the issue here is cable pull ratio. if you wanna make a budget build then use all ltwoo componen use shifter to RD from them not mixing it up. thats way cheaper then using shimano RD and gonna works 100%
I hate to pile on, but I have to agree with others; feels really weird that your first reaction is to blame the vendor QA process when you appear to have incompatible components.
@@obfuscurity where would you find the compatibility chart for these systems?
@@gograva I don't have an answer for you, as I have zero experience with L-Twoo. But put yourself in your audience's shoes; you have a bike shop owner/mechanic putting out a video to demonstrate their expertise [building the "ultimate monster gravel bike"] and who's willing to use components they haven't validated for interoperability. Why are you asking _us_ to find this information for you?
I give you props for putting yourself out there and being transparent about your work at this shop. But OTOH maybe you should've taken more time to research this issue before publishing the video; or at worst, explaining the problem and asking for community input without jumping to conclusions. I feel like this is a tact that @pathlesspedaled has taken with similar types of videos.
That looks proper with the huge Pano GK 29x2.1” on the i29 WTB rims. I love how that 100mm Fox fork but I’m sure it’s 110x15 so it’s not compatible with my current gravel wheels or old parts bin 100x15 hubs.
Like others have said, mixing L-Twoo shifters with Shimano derailleurs will never work no matter what. If you were to get the L-Twoo derailleur that is supposed to work with the shifters, I'm guessing everything would work fine. I have no skin in this game since I could care less about L-Twoo, but it's not fair to that company to claim they don't have quality control if you don't use/install them properly.
To test this yourself, leave the Shimano derailleur on there when you install the SRAM shifters and see if the shifting works. The result should be equally as bad.
@@mitmon_8538 where can you find the pull ratio on the LTwoo website?
@@gograva Fair point about LTwoo not having the best support, but that's where the money savings comes in. I don't think any manufacturers list out their pull ratios or other specifics. They might give you a compatibility chart on their website about their own products, but I don't think I've ever seen the big three expressly say they're not compatible with each other.
Yeahhhh, Road and MTB compatibility stopped reliably working after 9speed. 10-13 you gotta run either same road and road/ mtb and mtb, unless you use a tan pan or change shifter internals. Best bet is you can use a GR810/812 for rear. I’m running LTWoo GR9 shifters with GRX 810 rd.
As a bike shop, y’all should already know that out of the box road and mtb wouldn’t mix well unless it was 9speed below or maybe you’re used to electronic shifting where you don’t run into the cable pull problem or you just run friction shifter.
This build is very interesting to me as I'm gathering parts to do the same on a lower budget.
Learning from what you say about the center of gravity and top tube, stem length. I'm using an online stem comparison tool (yojii) to try and get this right. Re the Aliexpress stuff I have micronew 9 spd brifters that should work with my 9 spd Alivio derailleur but yet to try. Looking forward to your part 2 Thanks.
I have doubts the deore derailleur will work with a grx shifter as well but I'm very happy to stand corrected on that one.
I think it should work, but we will see.
@@gograva this won't work, i have grx levers with deore derailleur but it works thanks to wolf tooth tanpan. considering the prices it is better to buy grx 12x derailleur with sgs cage.
L-TWOO road shifters or GRX820 shifters do not have the same pull ratio as Deore rear derailleur. Neither will shift correctly without using a Tanpan pull adapter. Or just use a GRX 12 speed rear derailleur which will have the same pull ratio as road shifters, and can run the large cassette.
@@mrveloshop where is this information on Ltwoo?
@@gograva it's made to work with Shimano road which is 2:1 ratio, and Shimano MTB is 1:1
Sweet build. You're issue is likely pull ratios between deore and Ltwoo.
Yep, and I’m trying to research it.
L-Twoo - Yeh I've seen that brand used on Walmart bikes. The more I learn about this stuff, the more I admire friction shifters.
The GravelKing SK's are great tires, and priced right. I've found that the 2.1's measure a little over 2.2" on a WTB i25 rim, which is refreshing after dealing with so many brands that undersize their tires (Looking at you, Specialized, Continental, and [some-but-not-all] Maxxis!)
Have you ever tried applying tubeless tape with your wheel in a Park truing stand? That's my go-to method.
Have you tried Microshift sword shifters . Great price and solid components .
For your original shifters, is the cable pull different than Shimano? It's hard to use off brand parts, as we truly don't have a lot of experience with these parts. It's certainly better that it happened in the shop rather than a customer having issues. Good luck going forward.
Road/Gravel bike shifters won’t work with mountain derailleurs, they are simply not compatible, if you want to keep it budget friendly get a full GRT12 1 X 12 groupset with shifters, brakes and a derailleur
The Schwalbe G-One Speed go to 29x2.35. they don't look as cool as the ones you have, but they are bigger if that's what you're looking for.
I’ve never been a huge fan of schwalbe tires unless we are talking touring or e-bike tires.
Unfortunate about the LWTOO shifters, but this reminds my of my 2017 Cannondale Quick Carbon hybrid frame which converted to a light gravel bike that I absolutely love. At 18.4 lbs with Hunt 35 Gravel wheels set and Panaracer Gravel King 32mm it rides fast! Shimano 105 groupset with XT 11-40 cassette combo.
That's a great set up!
Schwable makes a few different G-One models(Speed and All Road only) in 2.25 and I think even 2.35 in the 29er size and up to 27.5x2.8(2.75).
Did you have a zero off set seat post? This is one way to shorten the effective TT and centre your position better with drop bars. I agree about sizing of frames. The ETT is more reliable to find the right stack and reach numbers. Many companies use made up numbers for frame size as no tube actually measures the number assigned.
I am curious about using a front shock as this adds weight and changes your position on the bike.
So it's a dropbar mtb...
With respect, I don’t think you need so much fluid in your tires. I would say 3 ounces tops in each
8 ounces in each is way more than necessary and adds a pound to your rotational weight which is effectively 3 pounds
just my opinion.
1:1.1mm allegedly. BUT, the GRT 12S Derailleur doesnt seem very expensive at 35 bux..
Gr9 is the same as shimano gtx and 11 speed road. I think the Grt is more likely to be compatible with GRX 822 12 speed.
That’s what I’m going to try next
You should probably not trash talk a group set if you haven’t checked Shimano’s compatibility chart and referenced poor ratios, making sure that there’s poor ratio for L2 is the same
Nice but my Tanglefoot Moonshiner is a true monster gravel bike with 27.5x3
That sounds like a beast.
@@gograva that's what you call a monster ATB. My Salsa journeyman has 2.1 0n 27.5 so nothing special.
@@gograva , I have a Tanglefoot Hardtack, which isn't quite the beast that the Moonshiner is, but it will still clear 27.5 x 2.6 tires.
My first watch since Pathless Pedaled sent me over. Like this kind of nerdery, but some of this comment community is a little toxic... Saying that ignorance about component compatability documented only in user forums is the fault of the consumer is some bootlicking garbage.
So you run a bike shop but don’t understand cable pull compatibility? You know all you had to do was get the Ltwoo 1x rear derailleur and it would even work with that cassette. I seriously want to know did you spend any time looking in to this before you ordered parts. Like 5 minutes on Google would have told you this.
I can’t find any pull ratio on the Ltwoo website. Maybe you can point me in the right direction. I did find plenty of people saying Ltwoo was compatible with Shimano 12 speed.
@ yea road 12sp. No one makes cable pull road shifters that work with mountain derailleurs. It’s been that way for years. You have to go electronic for that. Or you just use one of the 1x gravel groups available Ltwoo or Sram apex. Once again this is all over the Internet forums and UA-cam. Don’t blame Ltwoo for poor quality just because you don’t understand what your doing.
@@pulser955 microSHIFT Sword offer 1x components with drop bars. I have them on my Surly Fargo and they're wonderful.
@ got it, not denying that things are confusing when trying to do cross compatibility stuff… you can find plenty of items on the web saying it’s compatible. But… where on the LTWoo website can I find this information?
@ I wouldn’t think they have it anywhere. Ltwoo doesn’t have any north American distribution they are only working in the Chinese domestic market. So you have to look at other UA-cam videos or forum posts about compatibility. I stopped being a pro wrench years ago but I still have a real interest in bike tech. So I do allot of watching stuff like Trace velo. Do a little research and it quickly becomes obvious Ltwo has copped Shimano right down to cable pull ratios. What I’m going after you for is 2 things. 1 trying to make a total BS clams about quality because you don’t understand something that happened way back in the 9sp days. And 2 not understanding that outside of electronic shifting road shifters have not worked with mountain derailleurs for latterly decades. There is nothing confusing about it. Just suck it up and admit you didn’t know what you were doing and jumped the gun on the video. And don’t get me started on you not knowing you couldn’t use that dropper post that’s a can of worms you don’t want to open.
aw overly used term "monstor groovoool" 🤦♂ or im just a grumpy old man 🤣
I dont understand this gravel builds, any XC hardtail whit the faster mtb tires would be much much better in most trails maybe in pavement the gravel build would be a little faster