BAR is the way. I've been watching your content for a while. Outback Octagon still my fav series, but your BAR content is legit. I'm new to bar, a noob with good eco thanks to your guides :)
Thank you for this. I can tell that you've put a lot more thought into the production of this video compared to most of your other tutorials/guides and that is much appreciated! Your last video about the best eco build was also great and I love the direction that you're now going with this channel - showing/explaining a lot more detail in regards to the overall concepts and being sure to include examples from live games for more context. Thanks for being open and responsive to feedback and keep up the great work!
you forgot about the alt + a attack command that makes a circle in which the bombers attack inside randomly, its useful when attacking unit+defense posts specially when enemy tries to dodge
Air is about responding to enemy raids air and ground, mind you it will still take a second for them to respond, so you still need to build some aa turrets
It’s videos like this that help me feel justified. I build early AA in almost every single match I play. Drongo if you see this, consider the power of the Arm Air Force. EMP, Atomic, and Stun transport.
Arm also has a t1 gunship that actually deals damage. Can give you some rush option by opening air then get a couple out and sending them off. Most air players go bots first, so this speed means you only worry about aa. Also nice for getting early picks on mexes outside enemy bases.
Bombers use Attack ground. Fighters and Shuriken Fight. For a long time i would send my big boys fly over target and not do anything. Thanks for the video
Totally agreed! I particularly struggle with issuing priority commands while building/assisting structures. For example: I've tried to queue up a bunch of things to build, then have my commander briefly interrupt his build order to assist the bot lab production (by holding space, then right-clicking the bot lab) but then he gets "stuck" assisting the bot lab and never builds the rest of the stuff so I wind up having to queue it all again (wasting precious time in the process). Would love a more in-depth explanation of how this works to help me wrap my brain around this concept.
@@jmarino715 oohooh how do we cancel last build action in queue? hahah, knowing this, having something like that would be nice Oooor you want to prioritize something new and then switch to your queued actions.
Not sure I understand what you were trying to say about the energy convertors at 5:04. If the slider is high(to the right) they will only kick on when you have "excess" energy above the slider level. If you want to prioritize them making metal you push the slider lower (to the left) and they will stay active at lower energy levels. Both Caliburn and 8D called it. When playing Malady on most maps everyone needs to build AA early, no questions asked. The killer thing about air is its unpredictability due to it's freedom of movement and speed,. If I'm in the lower corner on land you know I'm not attacking the upper corner. With air anyone is a target.
"nice and high just in case the wind goes to shit". It's not about metal income but energy availability. Though of course you could scale it with the wind strength.
I always find it so surprising how many game winning moments are dictated by air raids. Especially considering how efficiently you can shutdown air with just a few well placed AA turrets\units. AA is by far the biggest hard-counter in the game. The last 3 games I've played, I've seen massive groups of land units utterly devastated by Air. When all they had to do was throw in 1 AA for every 10 units in the queue, and you're good to go.
Static AA is stupidly powerful. Want to bomb someone's base, but they have a handful of t2 flaks? Better be ready to lose all your fighters so you don't lose all your bombers too quickly. I hate it so much.
Battlefield air interdiction is great in BAR as is Close air support. The real win comes from Deep Strikes on power. If you can successfully strike power they can't combine no matter how much mass they can manufacture or reclaim. Dumbest thing about air in BAR is air units when shot down don't create any mass to be reclaimed which makes zero sense.
It is possible to shift-queue those spread out Attack orders but the units themselves will get spread out significantly and sometimes get stuck... not recommended. Air constructors have absolutely terrible build power. Strongly recommend transporting a con turret for any sneaky build shenanigans! Or just bring dozens, I guess. Transports carrying units with effects (like radar jammers and radars) do not prevent those effects. You can bring jammers with your raids! I never understood why air is default idle landing. They can still be shot by anti-air, so what's the point?
Apparently BAR tried some fuel (energy tanks) mechanics very early in development and it all got scrapped. Landing pads used to refuel and landed planes used to not consume fuel (energy). It all got scrapped for a simpler system and the relics of the old system still aren’t fully removed.
60 BP versus Bot 80 BP or Vehicle 90 BP is not "absolutely terrible". Given their movement speed, they're comparable. If the crux of an air build is an early build-turrent and lots of turbines, your commander can handle that part just fine. This is why it is often justified to start with an Air Lab - it gives you more tactical flexibility. You can take distant mexes (such as islands on Supreme Strait), you can setup perimeter cameras on the frontline to help your team defend (cliff on All That Glitters), or quickly assist your frontline mate in building ground units and static defenses (anywhere really). Bots are only better in a vacuum.
@@EugeneParallax They also take dramatically longer to build and the lab is more expensive than bots. They are great once you already have an economy for flexibility alone... but by then you could just print 20 of the things anyway so that BP isn't the limiting factor anymore. It is quite short sighted to view the entirety of the early econ phase as a "vacuum." Economies in this game are exponential.
@@Terminarch Lab being more expensive is irrelevant, because after you make one, it will be difficult to run out of metal (only gunships take a whole lot). You will have to build one anyway, so again, it is irrelevant. Cons do take a bit to build, but starting economy won't allow you to make cons quickly anyway (you'll stall on energy when boosting), so the difference isn't that much. You just need to boost for longer. Once you got a few, their speed and permeation advantage will begin to compensate. I think its more short-sighted to view the game only in context of economy. "Vacuum" means in isolation without a concern of strategic opportunities. It's just a method of spamming wind turbines, and it might not even work on every map equally well. It's a typical approach for someone who disregards his teammates and strategic depth. Such players should really stick with playing eco and not air.
@@EugeneParallax Completely agree. The argument against opening with air cons is mostly that they cost a fortune in energy in the early game. Some people argue it's because of bp, but I have a feeling in the early game the 60bp air con ends up spamming out about the same amount of t1 wind mills as compared to the frustrating 90bp vehicle con because of how long and wonky it takes to get anywhere and find a valid spot to build at. They also get the luxury of always being seconds away from something needing to be built while a land con could be a minute or more before they can do anything productive. Maybe it's not the perfectly optimal way of growing your eco early on, but getting out an extra early trans for a teammate or two, early Shurikens to stop leaks, getting an early scout off, or harass with t1 Armada gunships is nice. Lots of utility for the team in having 1 player open air factory even if it's to that player's own detriment in the long run.
Keep your fighter wall slightly behind your front. The front's made to be strong, so they don't need air overhead. Spread air out too when manually moving them to avoid splash. A good strat for dealing with t2 sams with massive range is to trickle in cheap t1 trash like a Shuriken or scout. Those can only bank like 5 missiles and take several seconds to produce a new one. Makes them almost irrelevant when you do end up attacking.
it is very different, early surprise attacks, or later massive number attacks can work. AA is pretty effective, though in late game against massive numbers less so, and it is less expensive in late game to get a massive air force. Though I'm still a noob, there might more aspects I didn't think of :)
It's because of how low their hp is and the tendency for aa to deal splash damage while also having a very impressive range especially t2. Super tough to attack someone who only kind of tried to get static aa towers up. Just a couple t1 aa towers makes a whole region a no go until mid to mid late game.
Totally obsessed with BAR at the moment
Same, and don't even have time to play !
Its the rts ive dreamed of as a kid
But the community is small and toxic af.
@@robotjesus555666TA 2
Still obsessed. Great game for a family man
BAR is the way. I've been watching your content for a while. Outback Octagon still my fav series, but your BAR content is legit. I'm new to bar, a noob with good eco thanks to your guides :)
Thank you for this. I can tell that you've put a lot more thought into the production of this video compared to most of your other tutorials/guides and that is much appreciated! Your last video about the best eco build was also great and I love the direction that you're now going with this channel - showing/explaining a lot more detail in regards to the overall concepts and being sure to include examples from live games for more context. Thanks for being open and responsive to feedback and keep up the great work!
just wanna say i found you by the algorithm, and started playing after watching a few vids, i have no idea what am doing but am enjoying it
Being in Air is my favourite role in the team
you forgot about the alt + a attack command that makes a circle in which the bombers attack inside randomly, its useful when attacking unit+defense posts specially when enemy tries to dodge
The 4 rules of playing air, you must:
1 stoP,
2 imPede,
3 Paralyse,
4 Prevent, the enemy from passing.
Simply remembered as the '4 p's'.
You forgot Pombing Runs. 😁
Air is about responding to enemy raids air and ground, mind you it will still take a second for them to respond, so you still need to build some aa turrets
I kind of miss formations in bar. Specially with air, which prominent for line, V-shape or arrow formations.
Finally I can try to play air again! I'll probably fail at it again, but at least I understand what I'm doing wrong now :D
It’s videos like this that help me feel justified. I build early AA in almost every single match I play.
Drongo if you see this, consider the power of the Arm Air Force. EMP, Atomic, and Stun transport.
Arm also has a t1 gunship that actually deals damage. Can give you some rush option by opening air then get a couple out and sending them off. Most air players go bots first, so this speed means you only worry about aa. Also nice for getting early picks on mexes outside enemy bases.
Bombers use Attack ground. Fighters and Shuriken Fight. For a long time i would send my big boys fly over target and not do anything. Thanks for the video
UA-cam reccomended me one of your aoe4 videos and I legitimately forgot that was still a game. I don't even remember subscribing here but I enjoy it.
Drongo we need to have advanced key guide, space, alt, ctrl, f5, g2, n1
Totally agreed! I particularly struggle with issuing priority commands while building/assisting structures. For example: I've tried to queue up a bunch of things to build, then have my commander briefly interrupt his build order to assist the bot lab production (by holding space, then right-clicking the bot lab) but then he gets "stuck" assisting the bot lab and never builds the rest of the stuff so I wind up having to queue it all again (wasting precious time in the process). Would love a more in-depth explanation of how this works to help me wrap my brain around this concept.
@@jmarino715 oohooh how do we cancel last build action in queue? hahah, knowing this, having something like that would be nice
Oooor you want to prioritize something new and then switch to your queued actions.
Not sure I understand what you were trying to say about the energy convertors at 5:04. If the slider is high(to the right) they will only kick on when you have "excess" energy above the slider level. If you want to prioritize them making metal you push the slider lower (to the left) and they will stay active at lower energy levels. Both Caliburn and 8D called it. When playing Malady on most maps everyone needs to build AA early, no questions asked. The killer thing about air is its unpredictability due to it's freedom of movement and speed,. If I'm in the lower corner on land you know I'm not attacking the upper corner. With air anyone is a target.
"nice and high just in case the wind goes to shit". It's not about metal income but energy availability. Though of course you could scale it with the wind strength.
Love the vids, just got in tothe game and this just really helps!!
I always find it so surprising how many game winning moments are dictated by air raids. Especially considering how efficiently you can shutdown air with just a few well placed AA turrets\units. AA is by far the biggest hard-counter in the game.
The last 3 games I've played, I've seen massive groups of land units utterly devastated by Air. When all they had to do was throw in 1 AA for every 10 units in the queue, and you're good to go.
Finaly air guuide, gogo Drongooo!
yes finally I've been waiting for a good air guide.
It's BAR. Build 2x AA turrets. A must for every game. Same as 2x simple turrets.
Static AA is stupidly powerful. Want to bomb someone's base, but they have a handful of t2 flaks? Better be ready to lose all your fighters so you don't lose all your bombers too quickly. I hate it so much.
Cor also has a much cheaper AFUS for late game swarming scale.
what is the keys you press to not cancel the build order and help the bot lab?
What units did malady build in that first game? I though I saw bombers but then also gunships…did he also build fighters?
The fact that team players BUY stuff from each other is totally crazy. It's a TEAM game. You should do whatever is best for the TEAM to win.
i appreciate the guide. with the stun rework and air rework this video miiiiiight need an update?
how do you have him make the units with the queue at the same time
Very useful
Battlefield air interdiction is great in BAR as is Close air support. The real win comes from Deep Strikes on power. If you can successfully strike power they can't combine no matter how much mass they can manufacture or reclaim. Dumbest thing about air in BAR is air units when shot down don't create any mass to be reclaimed which makes zero sense.
Isnt this like a mini version of supreme commander ?
I spectated this game live! Was a great one! Maybe not by you... :P. Love the content!
It is possible to shift-queue those spread out Attack orders but the units themselves will get spread out significantly and sometimes get stuck... not recommended.
Air constructors have absolutely terrible build power. Strongly recommend transporting a con turret for any sneaky build shenanigans! Or just bring dozens, I guess.
Transports carrying units with effects (like radar jammers and radars) do not prevent those effects. You can bring jammers with your raids!
I never understood why air is default idle landing. They can still be shot by anti-air, so what's the point?
Apparently BAR tried some fuel (energy tanks) mechanics very early in development and it all got scrapped. Landing pads used to refuel and landed planes used to not consume fuel (energy). It all got scrapped for a simpler system and the relics of the old system still aren’t fully removed.
60 BP versus Bot 80 BP or Vehicle 90 BP is not "absolutely terrible". Given their movement speed, they're comparable. If the crux of an air build is an early build-turrent and lots of turbines, your commander can handle that part just fine. This is why it is often justified to start with an Air Lab - it gives you more tactical flexibility. You can take distant mexes (such as islands on Supreme Strait), you can setup perimeter cameras on the frontline to help your team defend (cliff on All That Glitters), or quickly assist your frontline mate in building ground units and static defenses (anywhere really). Bots are only better in a vacuum.
@@EugeneParallax They also take dramatically longer to build and the lab is more expensive than bots. They are great once you already have an economy for flexibility alone... but by then you could just print 20 of the things anyway so that BP isn't the limiting factor anymore.
It is quite short sighted to view the entirety of the early econ phase as a "vacuum." Economies in this game are exponential.
@@Terminarch Lab being more expensive is irrelevant, because after you make one, it will be difficult to run out of metal (only gunships take a whole lot). You will have to build one anyway, so again, it is irrelevant.
Cons do take a bit to build, but starting economy won't allow you to make cons quickly anyway (you'll stall on energy when boosting), so the difference isn't that much. You just need to boost for longer. Once you got a few, their speed and permeation advantage will begin to compensate.
I think its more short-sighted to view the game only in context of economy. "Vacuum" means in isolation without a concern of strategic opportunities. It's just a method of spamming wind turbines, and it might not even work on every map equally well. It's a typical approach for someone who disregards his teammates and strategic depth. Such players should really stick with playing eco and not air.
@@EugeneParallax Completely agree. The argument against opening with air cons is mostly that they cost a fortune in energy in the early game. Some people argue it's because of bp, but I have a feeling in the early game the 60bp air con ends up spamming out about the same amount of t1 wind mills as compared to the frustrating 90bp vehicle con because of how long and wonky it takes to get anywhere and find a valid spot to build at. They also get the luxury of always being seconds away from something needing to be built while a land con could be a minute or more before they can do anything productive.
Maybe it's not the perfectly optimal way of growing your eco early on, but getting out an extra early trans for a teammate or two, early Shurikens to stop leaks, getting an early scout off, or harass with t1 Armada gunships is nice. Lots of utility for the team in having 1 player open air factory even if it's to that player's own detriment in the long run.
"One of the strongest, maybe THE strongest faction for air." What a wierd way to say this in a game with literally 2 factions.
The stokes can transport building turrets O o
He's just talking about fighters at that time. Idk what he said you're confused about, unless you just don't like the general rule of 5-1
Air is everywhere, how do one keep track of all the units and control their routes? They seem to fly into danger and get killed all the time
Imo first and most important, use control groups.
Keep your fighter wall slightly behind your front. The front's made to be strong, so they don't need air overhead. Spread air out too when manually moving them to avoid splash.
A good strat for dealing with t2 sams with massive range is to trickle in cheap t1 trash like a Shuriken or scout. Those can only bank like 5 missiles and take several seconds to produce a new one. Makes them almost irrelevant when you do end up attacking.
I love it when people run the bot lab first build free bombing runs
PRAISE DRONGO!
alway skeep one or two AA around for early game frontline cause of those empers...
lobby it's toxic af... i was in a noob 8v8, got flammed...
I wonder if this Malady is the Dota 2 pro player or some other guy
You're heard of *Nostradamus*
Why not *Nostra-minimus?*
i wish the community wasnt so toxic tho
Instead of opening up bot-lab, why not just make construction planes from air-plant instead?
air cons is slow and enemy fighters can easily kill all of them with little effort
the build power of air cons is very low
It's only beneficial to build air cons if you use their maneuverability and speed and building the base at the beginning is kind of the worst example
beeing new and coming from FAF air feels really weak 🤷♂
it is very different, early surprise attacks, or later massive number attacks can work. AA is pretty effective, though in late game against massive numbers less so, and it is less expensive in late game to get a massive air force. Though I'm still a noob, there might more aspects I didn't think of :)
It's because of how low their hp is and the tendency for aa to deal splash damage while also having a very impressive range especially t2. Super tough to attack someone who only kind of tried to get static aa towers up. Just a couple t1 aa towers makes a whole region a no go until mid to mid late game.
Malady air wtf =O
Not a good strategy if you get rushed.
Intro was wayyyy too long