Thanks folk, yeah I’ll take a deeper look once I get into it further. Once I give the envelopes a thorough workout it’ll probably be no issue (although that wasn’t on my kind at the time of recording - one of the foibles of first look videos!)
I have used/borrowed/begged about a dozen Model D's over the years and a few definitely had a more pronounced attack/click character than others. I don't know if it was old/bad coupling caps on a few of the units I used or just wicked fast VCAs, but that inherent click is part of what made the model D so punchy (IMO). If you can include it or omit it by simply backing off the VCA attack time, so much the better. It's now a feature. DC key click in Hammonds was originally considered a flaw. Little did they know that it would come to be their most distinctive feature.
What I'd like to see Behringer do is a polysynth which has ALL the performance features of the CS80, ie that wonderful keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch, the ribbon controller, that ring modulator, the detune and feet splitting, two separate stackable synths in one and so on... NO synth manufacturer has even attempted to incorporate those performance features on the CS80, I'm damn sure there is a market for it!
@@eliasknaapinen well, that would be a start but as I'm suggesting, either Behringer or another synth manufacturer should go MUCH further and put ALL those incredible performance features that are on the CS80.....I find it hard to believe that no one has hit on this idea...I base my suggestion on Dave Spiers' superb CS80 UA-cam demo. I was blown away by how much real time performance you have with this synth. I honestly couldn't care less about one million and one modulation routing possibilities on a synth and even less about menu diving....
I think the on/off switch for the Chorus might be to remove it from the signal path? I remember you could never really turn the delay off on the Neutron...
Can't believe how far Behringer is REALLY going with these "remake" models of these classic Synths!!! Soooo cool, ALOT of Ppl I know would tell to avoid Behringer products bc they were the "Kmart" of Products. Now?.....their becoming the "Air Jordan" of the Audio Hardware world.
IDK if I'd agree. Their game is all about quantity over quality, with marketing focused on unveiling the next 'new' thing every week or two at a low price. That's pretty much K Mart-tier consumer electronics IMO. If you want Air Jordan, buy something that's built to last and doesn't look and feel as chintzy as their shit does. I'm personally of the mentality that it's more sensible to own 2 or 3 more expensive but high-quality synths than a room full of cheap synths made by child laborers in East Asia, but that's just me.
Whatever anybody says about these behringer clone synths they are still better than anything the big players are making , I bought an UNO sold it to pay for a neutron, my crave sits underneath it, while my novation korg and Yamaha synths gather dust, I’ll be selling all my gear to buy behringer stuff, fantastic quality and sound
@@t.n.3819 You can read on this videos comments that many people including starsky are having quality problems with moog. More then one. So yeah longevity is a thing to consider. However when a flagship line like moog is having failures in 6 months. Nobody is safe.
@jason mcgary How is that a worry? They are so much cheaper, that you could just buy a new one every 10 years.. I personaly would be so much more worried buying a 3k synth, I would be afraid using it to not brake something.. It’s just no brainer really buying this cheaper synths.
I think dynamics and aftertouch are amazing additions for overall performace and expressivity with this synth. But they would really benefit a lot with actually added sliders / knobs for initial and after responses (for example like on Yamaha CS poly's).. Hiding them somewhere inside firmware is silly and bad design decision. :( More clicky analog VCA is just fine for me, great for percussive sounds if you need them, otherwise... you can just add attack. Chorus is awesome! Overall... features like useless LO settings on all OSC's and things like on-off switch on chorus and some other design decisions - like missing expession controls as mentioned before, missing various crossmod / pwm options (its kinda sin to not include them when you have 4osc's to use), 440Hz reference tone or syncable LFO, really rises suspicion in me that this synth was simply pushed out way too fast and early with some silly deadline... But.. It sounds awesome!
@@LochNessAnthony I was going to get a Minimoog Model D reissue but it is too expensive. I will get either the Behringer Model or the Poly D since they are cheaper.
@@holygeneration7 I plan to get one in the future. I had originally wanted a Minimoog from the 1970's but they are too expensive and I also wanted the new Minimoog reissue from 2016 but it is also too expensive. These things cost like $3,000 or more so I will just get the Poly D and also the Model D by Behringer which cost $300 to $700 dollars.
The click is useful for sub basses, though the Poly D has no sinewave generator, you can use the res and cutoff to get a pretty good one anyway. If this synth was a Model D with a keyboard it would cost about £500, so it looks pretty good with the 4 osc, paraphonic, Boss distortion and Juno chorus, and an arp at £600
12:30 - clicking is just an analog envelope's usual sh...t. I'm not sure if it's an old schematic or just all analog envelopes acts like that. It bends the whole sygnal's amplitude if you'll look at the wave. So it gives that bending even if all osc-s are off. Because VCA isn't off. P.S. hmm maybe it can be eliminated by summing an inverted envelope's output with the sygnal. But I'm not sure that it gives the envelope's "graph" exactly. Probably it's the side effect of using capacitors and diodes. Probably a diode "flushes out" a decay's cap and give's a kind of an "inertia spike". It's my thoughts only. It may be a different real explanation about "why and because". P.P.S. Oh, yeah )) Attack's click, sure! I've reminded that by the other comment. I've also picked up a bit of an attack to eliminate it.
No. The click is the internal cv gate you can hear that bleeds through. This is a analog VCA problem (bad design or setup in the factory) Its not a problem of the fast envelope. I wont buy this at the moment as this should not have left the factory like that. I bet other Poly D's are worse or better in this point. Click free VCAs are not easy to do in the pure analoge realm. Usually there is a trimmer on the VCA against bleed through.
I don't have a Poly D, but my Neutron does the same thing (stick a plug in VCA IN to disconnect all audio into the VCA). So, yeah, I'm betting cheap VCA or untrimmed VCA feed-through.
Yeh it's sounds like its probably DC offset. The VCA my guess is the internal trimmers on the VCA (if exactly same as the MM design) are not calibrated correctly . If the trimmers are not of good quality a small jog in transit could move them out slightly. Just a thought I could be wrong.
I wonder whether a digital envelope (I suspect they are after a little more experimentation) can't react quickly enough to the opeing of the gate so a little pops out befofre being closed off.. I'm not an electrical engineer so have no clue really :)
If the click can be removed by dialing in just a few ms of attack, then it is controllable, right? But I agree that it would be better to have a completely optional click.
is there a single person on planet earth who knows when theyre shipping these? i got notified that a shipping label was made like a week ago but everyone online is now saying like random days in april
PHWIVE. Lol. Poly, para, it's just a word. It plays multiple notes. 4 I think. It's like the new V-Sauce. What's a hole? It's an imprecise word, it doesn't matter.
Yes! Thank you! People grumbling over stupid little 💩! Play the darned thing and enjoy! Same with that little click! Because of a click, it sucks! Won't buy one! Drives me nuts! REALLY?! I think people just need to complain and or bitch! For the price point, you can't go wrong! This still puts a basic Minimoog into peoples hands for around 600.00! Compare that to 4, 5, or 6 thousand dollars! If you don't like the click, go buy a moog! I've got the Poly D and the Minimoog Voyager. For the price, the Poly D kicks! Personally I'm thankful!
Agree with you about the chorus, should be a wet/dry mix knob instead of on/off switch, and the 2 chorus's on together sounds useless.. And naff, unlike the juno 6/60/106. Seems like they overlooked it in the design stage and just threw a chorus in 🤔 does the clicking stop if you turn up attack slightly?
I’ll look at the envelopes in more detail later - is been using my Minimoog all weekend and expected them to be the same (as was the Model D) so it threw me a bit.
that clicking is what turned me off the minilogue. Loved everything about it but i just couldn't use it in an actual musical setting because the clicking drove me insane
Regula de todos los asr un poco de ataque y un sustain a tope de corto no vale dale un poquito como dar ataque es imperceptible y fuera problema me estraña que esto te pase a ti,hazlo en los 3 asr hombreee saludoss
I actually wish Behringer had opted for the Effects unit that they used in the Odyssey instead of just a chorus. The Auto Damp feature is pretty useful and a great addition. Just one question. Does it store the sequence you recorded or does it fade into nirvana as soon as you turn off the synth?
You mentioned low output and then added a preamp. Was this a byproduct of setting a constant velocity of 1? I’m curious to know if the velocity actually controls the VCA or if it is either normal or “accented”.
Velocity only seems to affect the accent. When I turned it on the velocity was in dynamic mode - but it doesn’t affect volume. I dilated it to 1 after doing most of the video (only the tracking and auto damp sections were recorded with it on constant velocity of 1)
Hi Starsky just wanted to say thank you for your excellent review of this brilliant synth. I've been lusting after one of these for ages and have just 'pulled the trigger' on one currently on it's way from Germany to me now, can't wait! I've had the Model D for ages and that has been one of my go to little synths for solid basses and leads, so really looking forward to getting my hands on this beast. You really make the machine sing and your patches here are beautiful. I hope you don't mind but I've taken a few screen grabs for my own use so I can set up some of your excellent demo patches when my machine arrives. I love all your videos, you give good down to earth reviews of equipment and how to use it in the real world and your enthusiasm for all things synth really shines through. Thank you my friend for another inspirational video, just waiting to get my hands on my very own Poly D now!
Yeah, adding some attack helps, but it’s not ideal. I’m a little concerned this particular unit is faulty as the output is really low - around 15-20dB less than my Moog. So I have to crank up the input which may result in greater noise. I can also here a gate close thump when releasing a key.
Random Guy on UA-cam I don’t know, but the TD-3 that sounds like a real TB-303 cost $149.00 and the new Korg nubass that does not sound like a real 303 cost $199 😊 why
Random Guy on UA-cam you’re right, I thought that just after I posted my reply. Still needs more cloned circuits to achieve more than one note at a time.
@@0x0777 but it has no keys , and signal flow is non existent , I bet if behringer would make it , it would have been cheaper or more functions, the volca has 1 tone , a similar price crave has many tones with just 1 osc , it all depends if you like it , poly d sounds like an instrument with warmth
I was really excited by the Poly D but then I found out it's not actually true polyphony and it only has one voice per oscillator - Minilogue XD just had a price drop to £480 and while it's only 2 analogue oscillators, you've got hard sync and ring mod options on osc1 and shape controls on both and then once you add in the custom digital oscillator and FX, it's actually a lot more forward thinking so I got myself one. This does sound lush though but definitely one for when the price drops and you have some spare money as a treat.
Is it true that you can drive the Behringer Ds filters using the oscillator mixer but can't on the Poly D? Does it sound different to re-routing back into the filter with a cable? Does your Behringer D have the same clicking?
I get similar clicking sometimes on the Matriarch and my assumption has been that it has something to do with there being a gate after the VCO's to support the poly modes.
Interesting... I had wondered whether poly mode had something to do with it, or gain-staging through 4 VCOs etc. You don’t fancy popping round with the matriarch for a comparison do you ;)
In both this and the Arturia MiniMoog plugin I have, on the oscillators there's a bit of sort of dirt in the top end. Having never played one in person, I'm wondering if this is a digital artefact or they do this in reality too.
Take a look at the comparison of this vs the Minimoog ua-cam.com/video/f3dEAptsg_A/v-deo.html the Poly D has a slight warble at the very top end - the Minimoog has a smoother buzz.
Haha yes. Everywhere else I’ve been in the world (Europe, China, Asia, Australia) you flick down for on and up for off. USA is the other way round (maybe other places too).
Geez... this really is quite a "Buyers beware" video and SOOOO damn helpful. The filter part really leaves me head scratching... about the high-pass part.. where the low frequencies come back as you turn up the filter resonance. This is really really really weird and a little disappointing. I mean especially if you don't need it. The Paraphonic Mode however is really interesting and i'm imagining this being used with some nice effects in the signal chain.
I got my P.D. today, trying to make work in LogicX but unfortunately it seems to misbehave despite the proper set up. Sequencer start to play on the Poly D whenever I do play the LogicX sequence. Also the notes are latching when on the external midi track ( Poly D) so impossible to play and record parts into LogicX. Any idea what to check in the Poly D app/synth set up? Strangely I didn't find Local Switch On/Off in the app so not sure if this is the problem. Thanks for all your interesting videos. ;)
Which ones.. ? Just first impressions and wasn’t expecting the clicks (the Model D didn’t do it) and I suspect the unit has an issue hence the low input level. Once I compare with the Minimoog I think the sound will be spot on - just disappointed with the clicks at first touch. It’s possibly the downside of a no holds barred unboxing. The double chorus (I and II pressed simultaneously) is weird, but as I said I may find a use for it one day, but it’s not to my taste and doesn’t sound like the Juno on which it’s based. Other than that I don’t think it was negative, just honest. I say it sounds fat, the poly modes are really interesting and the 4th osc plus LFO are a welcome addition, the sequencers also a good addition (even if I don’t like the buttons) and the distortion has much more control than the Minimoog overdrive - which you can achieve using the classic feedback loop.
@@HugoDaSilva7 haha... the joy of misinterpreting a comment :) Thanks. I think its mainly Behringer Bangers, anything I upload with a Behringer synth gets immediate down votes. Also some folks just want sounds, with no commentary, so they downvote anything that doesn't suit their exact tastes. I don't understand it myself either - if I've bothered to do this for the benefit of the musicians community (I don't make a profit and I'm not sponsored, and it takes a lot of time). If someone doesn't like it, it doesn't necessarily make it a bad video, inappropriate or misleading. People are strange, and some are just idiots.
I only ever seen an original Mini Moog Model D once in my life that was about 10 years ago but couldn’t get to try it out as it was sold for someone to collect.I assume your from Liverpool I’m from N.Ireland.
The tuning stability on this one was fine. The major difference was in the levels - apparently it’s because this has been modified to go through the chorus circuit. What you hear in this is what i heard when demoing.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks Starsky! I appreciate the reply. I definitely dig the sounds. Need me a fat analog synth for the collection and was mulling a used Little Phatty or one of these.
the click ( 14.40 ) is driving me mad on my Poly D...you can hide it with a big full on sound, but bring the filter down like you do in the above video and the click is louder than the sound... I know you can turn up the attack, but that alters the sound..and adds a fade...not good with percussive sounds...
Some synths do it, and it adds to the character - good for clicky organs. I’m not a fan myself. The most annoying one I have is the noise on the MS20 when the filters closed. You just can’t use it in an empty mix.... the worst bit is it got me into sending signals to the Moogs, then the moogerfoogers, then control units... and into modular. I wish I never noticed (as does my bank account!).
@@StarskyCarr Hi, Thanks for getting back.... it makes this unusable with quiet sequences..? Surely it cant meant to be like it..? Im gutted as the synth is great...not sure what to do...wondering if they all do it
I've had mine a fortnight and love it, but still trying to master the sequencer. I can't figure out how to record and store a 2nd, 3rd sequence (and so on), after the 1st one. I just end up overwriting the 1st one. I downloaded the so-called "Manual" but it doesn't seem to tell us how to do that.
hi starky. im not femiliar with the mini or model d. never haad one. couple of months ago i bought the poly d which i love. i turn off the velocity level to 127 as you said in synth tool. but i can't get any pacthes out of it like any demo videos i watch on youtube or yours now. overall the synth behaves a bit weird in the poly mode, to me: if i play with the keys sudenly another voice pops up. is it me doing something wrong or the synth is broken?? im about to send it back to the music store using the warranty. would be great if you can say something!!
There are 3 playing modes - 2 oddments which cycle through the voices. It sounds like you’re in on of them. The green switch in the top left changes the modes. I can’t remember off hand which one is for polyphonic playing. But look at that. The manual explains the modes, I mention them in one of my videos. if that doesn’t sort it the. Maybe there’s an issue with the synth.
Hy Starsky Carr! Thanks for this great video (like ALL your videos!). I raised the "electronic quality" subject on UA-cam, GearSlutz & Audiofanzine and it is hard to obtain an answer. To sell at a very low price, a manufacturer usually use low cost components and I don't want to buy a cheaper "Minimoog" (Poly D / Model D) that could be out of order in 5 years that nobody can repair... Do you know anyone good in electronics able to analyse the components used by Moog and Behringer to determine which one is the easiest to maintain and will have the longest service life? Because I'm personally very worried about the electronic quality of the Behringer.
I don't think any are worse/better than others. They all use the same electronic component suppliers. The main exceptions would be something like the Minimoog or Prophet 5. reissue that use 70's technology. But Behringer have their own state of the art manufacturing plant and has control over its own facility. They also give 3 year warranties which can give some confidence. They sell loads more synths than others so pro-rata you'll hear about more issues, but I've only had one issue and that was a design flaw.. the WASP had a retriggering issues on the first units. I got a full refund. I've since bought a new one and its fine.. I've had problems with synths from all the major manufacturers .. yes even my Minimoog ! So this isn't something I take into account tbh. Nothing new is designed for repair on a component level.
Fantastic video! May I ask, (if yes, I'll be sure to give credit for use of the sample) but I've started getting into music making myself, and I really love the analog synth intro at the start of this video, it reminds me of driving into a town or city at sunset, and was wondering if I could use it as a sample in one of my upcoming projects? Many thanks for your videos and keep up the great work! 😀
No I didn’t get a hard copy. The click is sorted with a tiny amount of amp env attack. I was just thrown when making the video as I’d spent the weekend playing the Minimoog and expected like for like, but obviously they’re different in quite a few ways!
@@StarskyCarr Many thanks. I'll see if I can download the manual. I did receive a hard copy manual with their Vocoder though. I'll also test out your anti click remedy, thanks. I've only had the keyboard for about 4 hours :-)
It’s normal, a couple of others have noticed the same. It’s an easy fix, just add a little amp env attack. I’d been using the Minimoog extensively for a couple of days prior to recording this and had expected them to be identical so it threw me a little. It’s nothing that would overly concern me. The Prophet 6 has a similar click.
Wait until these things start breaking down, my Grandmother Moog sounded so good, already died on me after 6 months playing it. Pretty bad board design cost of budget.
Still trying to find out if this sounds and functions like the regular model d that Behringher put out. If so, then and only will i get this. ANYONE KNOW?
I’ll let you know soon... will be comparing with the Minimoog, which I also did a comparison with the Behringer Model D. I suspect they’ll be very similar if not identical.
Are they basically manufacturing this stuff in sweatshops? I’m not concerned about IP but if they’re brutalizing Korean grandmas working ten hours a day with no AC, then no, I won’t be a part of that
No? Judging by the photos of their facility it seems very clean and healthy. Like, cleaner than the distribution plant *I* work at. If you want to argue about 'what about when the cameras are off???' Then you're probably better off not buying any mass-produced product, at all, ever.
@@jackpijjin4088 you seem rly upset about a question regarding the working conditions of laborers for a company that sells extremely cheap products. Not sure why. A clean shop doesn’t say anything about whether employees are dramatically overworked and extremely underpaid (they could simply have really tyrannical management that enforces extreme cleanliness at the expense of workers rather than for their benefit). And yeah, I do object to all forms of wage labor, but that doesn’t mean that they are all equally brutal. The lows can be very low. I’m not interested in slavery by another name. Sorry you’re offended that someone might care about these people.
@@herschoolcolors Upset? What? How? I'm just engaging in discussion. The way women, children, and indeed the elderly are treated in such environments is absolutely abhorrent and fueled only by corporate greed and absolutely should not be tolerated in any way. I was stating that Behringer has shown that they don't tolerate that, which is why they opened their own manufacturing facility which is presumably of higher standard at least judging by their 'insightful' images. The statement at the end was regarding the fact that anybody can change the perception of their ethics by either doctoring images or setting up false or staged imagery- including Behringer but I'm personally inclined to doubt that because unlike Apple or Samsung or Nike, etc, they have a lot to lose when it comes to public support and/or outcry.
There are calibration access holes in the rear panel if it needs it, but it’s not expected as a day to day occurrence. I haven’t experienced any tuning issues.
Great vid, thanks! I finally got mine this week and I love some of the capabilities like the paraphonic arps, where you can cycle through the oscillators. I love to use this in some projects, but I can't seem to get the arp to sync to my DAW or even to get it working at all when feeding midi from the DAW. I can alternatively us the arp capabilities from the DAW, but then I can't seem to make them cycle through the different oscillators. Any thoughts?
This was Behringer response: "Hi there, thanks for choosing the Poly D, we hope you enjoy the big beefy sound :) You need to load the app and you can setup the midi clock from there so it syncs to your daw either via USB midi or DIN midi. Remember to keep the USB connection free though when loading the app, if you try and load it whilst the USB connection is live in your DAW or any other software the app won't connect."
No worries about that little bit of click, just use your envelopes, it's the amp opening up so just dial in a tiny bit of attack to get rid of it.
Crolodon came here to post this. It’s a faster envelope than the mini. Just add like 2-3ms of attack and you’re set to jet
Thanks folk, yeah I’ll take a deeper look once I get into it further. Once I give the envelopes a thorough workout it’ll probably be no issue (although that wasn’t on my kind at the time of recording - one of the foibles of first look videos!)
Pinned
Also came her to say that it’s the envelopes... old moog and 5u users will know this pain of thinking something is broken.
I have used/borrowed/begged about a dozen Model D's over the years and a few definitely had a more pronounced attack/click character than others. I don't know if it was old/bad coupling caps on a few of the units I used or just wicked fast VCAs, but that inherent click is part of what made the model D so punchy (IMO). If you can include it or omit it by simply backing off the VCA attack time, so much the better. It's now a feature. DC key click in Hammonds was originally considered a flaw. Little did they know that it would come to be their most distinctive feature.
What I'd like to see Behringer do is a polysynth which has ALL the performance features of the CS80, ie that wonderful keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch, the ribbon controller, that ring modulator, the detune and feet splitting, two separate stackable synths in one and so on... NO synth manufacturer has even attempted to incorporate those performance features on the CS80, I'm damn sure there is a market for it!
An Ambient Cyborg I have heard that Behringer are developing their own poly aftertouch keyoboard. We might well see that in the future.
@@eliasknaapinen well, that would be a start but as I'm suggesting, either Behringer or another synth manufacturer should go MUCH further and put ALL those incredible performance features that are on the CS80.....I find it hard to believe that no one has hit on this idea...I base my suggestion on Dave Spiers' superb CS80 UA-cam demo. I was blown away by how much real time performance you have with this synth. I honestly couldn't care less about one million and one modulation routing possibilities on a synth and even less about menu diving....
ASM Hydrasynth have done it
7:14 is definition of Moog sound for me
John Fontana yes sounds like a Moog for me too
I think the on/off switch for the Chorus might be to remove it from the signal path? I remember you could never really turn the delay off on the Neutron...
Can't believe how far Behringer is REALLY going with these "remake" models of these classic Synths!!! Soooo cool, ALOT of Ppl I know would tell to avoid Behringer products bc they were the "Kmart" of Products.
Now?.....their becoming the "Air Jordan" of the Audio Hardware world.
Its still early in these synths lives give it 10 or so years and see how they hold up
IDK if I'd agree. Their game is all about quantity over quality, with marketing focused on unveiling the next 'new' thing every week or two at a low price. That's pretty much K Mart-tier consumer electronics IMO. If you want Air Jordan, buy something that's built to last and doesn't look and feel as chintzy as their shit does. I'm personally of the mentality that it's more sensible to own 2 or 3 more expensive but high-quality synths than a room full of cheap synths made by child laborers in East Asia, but that's just me.
Whatever anybody says about these behringer clone synths they are still better than anything the big players are making , I bought an UNO sold it to pay for a neutron, my crave sits underneath it, while my novation korg and Yamaha synths gather dust, I’ll be selling all my gear to buy behringer stuff, fantastic quality and sound
@@t.n.3819
You can read on this videos comments that many people including starsky are having quality problems with moog.
More then one.
So yeah longevity is a thing to consider.
However when a flagship line like moog is having failures in 6 months.
Nobody is safe.
@jason mcgary How is that a worry? They are so much cheaper, that you could just buy a new one every 10 years.. I personaly would be so much more worried buying a 3k synth, I would be afraid using it to not brake something.. It’s just no brainer really buying this cheaper synths.
I think dynamics and aftertouch are amazing additions for overall performace and expressivity with this synth. But they would really benefit a lot with actually added sliders / knobs for initial and after responses (for example like on Yamaha CS poly's).. Hiding them somewhere inside firmware is silly and bad design decision. :(
More clicky analog VCA is just fine for me, great for percussive sounds if you need them, otherwise... you can just add attack.
Chorus is awesome!
Overall... features like useless LO settings on all OSC's and things like on-off switch on chorus and some other design decisions - like missing expession controls as mentioned before, missing various crossmod / pwm options (its kinda sin to not include them when you have 4osc's to use), 440Hz reference tone or syncable LFO, really rises suspicion in me that this synth was simply pushed out way too fast and early with some silly deadline...
But.. It sounds awesome!
Seems like there is after touch and velocity knobs on the rear (cool).
lucky you mate, can't afford one of those :) ... for now
You will. They’re super affordable.
@@holygeneration7 The Behringer Poly D is already out.
@@LochNessAnthony I was going to get a Minimoog Model D reissue but it is too expensive. I will get either the Behringer Model or the Poly D since they are cheaper.
@@holygeneration7 I plan to get one in the future. I had originally wanted a Minimoog from the 1970's but they are too expensive and I also wanted the new Minimoog reissue from 2016 but it is also too expensive. These things cost like $3,000 or more so I will just get the Poly D and also the Model D by Behringer which cost $300 to $700 dollars.
i actually like envelopes with clicks. you can make good percussive sounds
I would love a proper head to head between the Minimoog and Poly D!
It’s on its way :)
B Smith As long as we disable an osc & poly mode first.
The click is useful for sub basses, though the Poly D has no sinewave generator, you can use the res and cutoff to get a pretty good one anyway. If this synth was a Model D with a keyboard it would cost about £500, so it looks pretty good with the 4 osc, paraphonic, Boss distortion and Juno chorus, and an arp at £600
and its poliphonic jjjejejjjejjejejjej real poliphonic,chords of four notes ,sorry for my english
12:30 - clicking is just an analog envelope's usual sh...t. I'm not sure if it's an old schematic or just all analog envelopes acts like that.
It bends the whole sygnal's amplitude if you'll look at the wave. So it gives that bending even if all osc-s are off. Because VCA isn't off.
P.S. hmm maybe it can be eliminated by summing an inverted envelope's output with the sygnal. But I'm not sure that it gives the envelope's "graph" exactly. Probably it's the side effect of using capacitors and diodes. Probably a diode "flushes out" a decay's cap and give's a kind of an "inertia spike". It's my thoughts only. It may be a different real explanation about "why and because".
P.P.S. Oh, yeah )) Attack's click, sure! I've reminded that by the other comment. I've also picked up a bit of an attack to eliminate it.
No. The click is the internal cv gate you can hear that bleeds through.
This is a analog VCA problem (bad design or setup in the factory) Its not a problem of the fast envelope. I wont buy this at the moment as this should not have left the factory like that. I bet other Poly D's are worse or better in this point.
Click free VCAs are not easy to do in the pure analoge realm. Usually there is a trimmer on the VCA against bleed through.
I don't have a Poly D, but my Neutron does the same thing (stick a plug in VCA IN to disconnect all audio into the VCA). So, yeah, I'm betting cheap VCA or untrimmed VCA feed-through.
Yeh it's sounds like its probably DC offset. The VCA my guess is the internal trimmers on the VCA (if exactly same as the MM design) are not calibrated correctly . If the trimmers are not of good quality a small jog in transit could move them out slightly.
Just a thought I could be wrong.
@@Roderick_Legato 👍🏾👍🏾
I wonder whether a digital envelope (I suspect they are after a little more experimentation) can't react quickly enough to the opeing of the gate so a little pops out befofre being closed off.. I'm not an electrical engineer so have no clue really :)
If the click can be removed by dialing in just a few ms of attack, then it is controllable, right? But I agree that it would be better to have a completely optional click.
Auto damp is from the monopoly if nobody's mentioned it yet ... still loving the Munros BTW :) ... my reissue didn't have the annoying click either
distort the HP in poly mode, you will hear some very nice and unusual quirks and that is before adding chorus :-)
is there a single person on planet earth who knows when theyre shipping these? i got notified that a shipping label was made like a week ago but everyone online is now saying like random days in april
The key click annoyed me, I dialled the attack off 1mm
yup, that is all it takes on mine too
@@ogasi1798 - I can't seem to get rid of it? ;-(
PHWIVE. Lol. Poly, para, it's just a word. It plays multiple notes. 4 I think. It's like the new V-Sauce. What's a hole? It's an imprecise word, it doesn't matter.
Yes! Thank you! People grumbling over stupid little 💩! Play the darned thing and enjoy! Same with that little click! Because of a click, it sucks! Won't buy one! Drives me nuts! REALLY?! I think people just need to complain and or bitch! For the price point, you can't go wrong! This still puts a basic Minimoog into peoples hands for around 600.00! Compare that to 4, 5, or 6 thousand dollars! If you don't like the click, go buy a moog! I've got the Poly D and the Minimoog Voyager. For the price, the Poly D kicks! Personally I'm thankful!
Agree with you about the chorus, should be a wet/dry mix knob instead of on/off switch, and the 2 chorus's on together sounds useless.. And naff, unlike the juno 6/60/106. Seems like they overlooked it in the design stage and just threw a chorus in 🤔 does the clicking stop if you turn up attack slightly?
I’ll look at the envelopes in more detail later - is been using my Minimoog all weekend and expected them to be the same (as was the Model D) so it threw me a bit.
To me the Chorus 3 does sound like the result on my Juno 6. It is more of a Tremolo than Chorus - in my opinion at least.
I really hope it's Behringer trying out the concept for the MonoPoly clone. Because that thing is RUDE
that clicking is what turned me off the minilogue. Loved everything about it but i just couldn't use it in an actual musical setting because the clicking drove me insane
Regula de todos los asr un poco de ataque y un sustain a tope de corto no vale dale un poquito como dar ataque es imperceptible y fuera problema me estraña que esto te pase a ti,hazlo en los 3 asr hombreee saludoss
I actually wish Behringer had opted for the Effects unit that they used in the Odyssey instead of just a chorus. The Auto Damp feature is pretty useful and a great addition. Just one question. Does it store the sequence you recorded or does it fade into nirvana as soon as you turn off the synth?
That Juno Chorus sounds amazing
A little late? retailers are saying that you can't get one in the U.S until April 2020
I am definitely buying one, but Nick Batt showed that there is no way to overdrive the filter by turning up the volume of the oscillators.
Yes it is missing a few choice features. Probably last about a week too.
it has built in distortion that is way better than a FB loop
@@420gravy4 yeah like the x32 and other recent behringer products smh grow up
You are my favorite English teacher
It’s like the Prophet 6, a very fast envelope produces the same click, annoying I guess but allows for good drum sounds.
Very cool 🙏 but Im going for the 2600 and pro3 standard edition pairing! ✨
Just bought this and the Arp 2600 Blue Marvin on your recommendations . Cheers pal -awesome
Loopop's Poly D doesn't sound clicky like yours. I'm thinking you may have a faulty unit. ua-cam.com/video/gNDwUoGqxDE/v-deo.html
You mentioned low output and then added a preamp. Was this a byproduct of setting a constant velocity of 1? I’m curious to know if the velocity actually controls the VCA or if it is either normal or “accented”.
Velocity only seems to affect the accent. When I turned it on the velocity was in dynamic mode - but it doesn’t affect volume. I dilated it to 1 after doing most of the video (only the tracking and auto damp sections were recorded with it on constant velocity of 1)
Hi Starsky just wanted to say thank you for your excellent review of this brilliant synth. I've been lusting after one of these for ages and have just 'pulled the trigger' on one currently on it's way from Germany to me now, can't wait! I've had the Model D for ages and that has been one of my go to little synths for solid basses and leads, so really looking forward to getting my hands on this beast. You really make the machine sing and your patches here are beautiful. I hope you don't mind but I've taken a few screen grabs for my own use so I can set up some of your excellent demo patches when my machine arrives. I love all your videos, you give good down to earth reviews of equipment and how to use it in the real world and your enthusiasm for all things synth really shines through. Thank you my friend for another inspirational video, just waiting to get my hands on my very own Poly D now!
Excellent, I hope you enjoy it... and screen grab to your hearts content!! :) Happy to help and inspire - its why I do it.
This demo is the backing track to any Philip K. Dick story...
it makes me want to listen to the first two Human League albums.
Reproduction & Travelogue - still love listening to them - so raw & basic but there's magic in that to be honest.
I’ve owned 3 Minimoogs .. two D’s and a Voyager .. none of em clicked like this. Kinda a bummer ..
Yeah, adding some attack helps, but it’s not ideal. I’m a little concerned this particular unit is faulty as the output is really low - around 15-20dB less than my Moog. So
I have to crank up the input which may result in greater noise. I can also here a gate close thump when releasing a key.
Sorry for the Behringer haters out there. These guys are the only company making this. Affordable gear that almost nowadays was imposible to get.
Random Guy on UA-cam I don’t know, but the TD-3 that sounds like a real TB-303 cost $149.00 and the new Korg nubass that does not sound like a real 303 cost $199 😊 why
Random Guy on UA-cam I don’t know dude, I have a VC-340 and stil working ok, and 6 months pass already since I bought it.
Random Guy on UA-cam because it needs nearly four times as much circuitry to achieve the polyphony.
Random Guy on UA-cam you’re right, I thought that just after I posted my reply. Still needs more cloned circuits to achieve more than one note at a time.
@@0x0777 but it has no keys , and signal flow is non existent , I bet if behringer would make it , it would have been cheaper or more functions, the volca has 1 tone , a similar price crave has many tones with just 1 osc , it all depends if you like it , poly d sounds like an instrument with warmth
I was really excited by the Poly D but then I found out it's not actually true polyphony and it only has one voice per oscillator - Minilogue XD just had a price drop to £480 and while it's only 2 analogue oscillators, you've got hard sync and ring mod options on osc1 and shape controls on both and then once you add in the custom digital oscillator and FX, it's actually a lot more forward thinking so I got myself one. This does sound lush though but definitely one for when the price drops and you have some spare money as a treat.
Thanks for this great review, Starsky. I’m trying to decide on a budget-ish synth and I’m seeking this kind of info. Helped me a lot.
Love it!!! What a beauty 😍
Is it true that you can drive the Behringer Ds filters using the oscillator mixer but can't on the Poly D? Does it sound different to re-routing back into the filter with a cable? Does your Behringer D have the same clicking?
I don’t have the Model D to compare... it was sent to me on loan by someone who wanted to know how it compared with the Mini.
At last, I’m ahead of ya...
HOW DID YOU ALREADY GET ONE?! MINE ISNT SHIPPING UNTIL MAY!!
:(
he's batman
Brill! Was really helpful. Absolutely loving mine!
what i remember: my korg monotribe had a similar rather anoying click - there it was unfortunately "by design"
The man who taught me the ARP Ody
notice for behringer.. now the next one: the CS80
Go get em' Behringer..go for it 💪, this is awesome!!! much respect 👍
You mean it has oscillators, filters, envelopes and a vca? The world isn't ready for that...
I get similar clicking sometimes on the Matriarch and my assumption has been that it has something to do with there being a gate after the VCO's to support the poly modes.
Interesting... I had wondered whether poly mode had something to do with it, or gain-staging through 4 VCOs etc. You don’t fancy popping round with the matriarch for a comparison do you ;)
@@StarskyCarr Mail me your Mini reissue and I'll send you the Matriarch to do a comparison. :D
got mine too - wicked weapon ! very fast envelopes
Hi do you have that click problem with the envelopes?
In both this and the Arturia MiniMoog plugin I have, on the oscillators there's a bit of sort of dirt in the top end. Having never played one in person, I'm wondering if this is a digital artefact or they do this in reality too.
Take a look at the comparison of this vs the Minimoog ua-cam.com/video/f3dEAptsg_A/v-deo.html the Poly D has a slight warble at the very top end - the Minimoog has a smoother buzz.
Wait, is a power switch being up/down a North American thing..?
Haha yes. Everywhere else I’ve been in the world (Europe, China, Asia, Australia) you flick down for on and up for off. USA is the other way round (maybe other places too).
No, but the direction for power on is opposite to Europe. And probably the rest of the world.
Thanks for sharing I didn’t see an Arpeggiator button.
It’s in the sequencer section
@@StarskyCarr Thanks for the info I always loved the sound of the Mini Moog I first heard it on a Rick Wakeman album way back in 1973.
I didn’t expect it to retrigger to oscillators with each new note, but rather everything is controlled by the first note. I like the effect of that.
Looks so fun but if the price point is over $600, I might just have to go with the Korg Minilogue XD which I've had my eye on for like a year. :(
Yeah, the price definitely puts it in another league competing with some very capable synths.
Can you save presets?
Best
It's the exact same size and identical build to the Behringer Monopolly, they just change the module and colour, which is smart keeps cost down.
The Model D also has that clicky sound. I thought it disappeared when the envelopes decay and sustain were open.
Love the Scouse accent! Inspiring my Beatle, Echo and the Bunnymen influences.
Great videos.
Geez... this really is quite a "Buyers beware" video and SOOOO damn helpful. The filter part really leaves me head scratching... about the high-pass part.. where the low frequencies come back as you turn up the filter resonance. This is really really really weird and a little disappointing. I mean especially if you don't need it. The Paraphonic Mode however is really interesting and i'm imagining this being used with some nice effects in the signal chain.
My i ask about the music playing in the background? (2:15)
No reverb 😢
Have subbed. ;-)
I got my P.D. today, trying to make work in LogicX but unfortunately it seems to misbehave despite the proper set up. Sequencer start to play on the Poly D whenever I do play the LogicX sequence. Also the notes are latching when on the external midi track ( Poly D) so impossible to play and record parts into LogicX. Any idea what to check in the Poly D app/synth set up? Strangely I didn't find Local Switch On/Off in the app so not sure if this is the problem. Thanks for all your interesting videos. ;)
wondering why all the negatives??
Which ones.. ? Just first impressions and wasn’t expecting the clicks (the Model D didn’t do it) and I suspect the unit has an issue hence the low input level.
Once I compare with the Minimoog I think the sound will be spot on - just disappointed with the clicks at first touch. It’s possibly the downside of a no holds barred unboxing.
The double chorus (I and II pressed simultaneously) is weird, but as I said I may find a use for it one day, but it’s not to my taste and doesn’t sound like the Juno on which it’s based. Other than that I don’t think it was negative, just honest. I say it sounds fat, the poly modes are really interesting and the 4th osc plus LFO are a welcome addition, the sequencers also a good addition (even if I don’t like the buttons) and the distortion has much more control than the Minimoog overdrive - which you can achieve using the classic feedback loop.
@@StarskyCarr im talking about the comunity dislikes on the video, cose i think its a great review
@@HugoDaSilva7 haha... the joy of misinterpreting a comment :) Thanks. I think its mainly Behringer Bangers, anything I upload with a Behringer synth gets immediate down votes. Also some folks just want sounds, with no commentary, so they downvote anything that doesn't suit their exact tastes. I don't understand it myself either - if I've bothered to do this for the benefit of the musicians community (I don't make a profit and I'm not sponsored, and it takes a lot of time). If someone doesn't like it, it doesn't necessarily make it a bad video, inappropriate or misleading. People are strange, and some are just idiots.
I only ever seen an original Mini Moog Model D once in my life that was about 10 years ago but couldn’t get to try it out as it was sold for someone to collect.I assume your from Liverpool I’m from N.Ireland.
Yeah... i spent a fair bit of time in NI when producing. Just 25 minutes in the air :)
the signal output lvl is pretty low.... that could be a problem for live shows :/
why did you set the constant velocity to 1?
So I didn’t get any accents. … as far as I recall.
Hi Starsky Carr, I seem to be stuck with the notorious 'click'! I'll try and check out another of you Poly-D reviews in the meantime matey...
Saw some bad reviews. For anyone that owns this does it sound as good in person as it does the videos and how is the tuning stability?
The tuning stability on this one was fine. The major difference was in the levels - apparently it’s because this has been modified to go through the chorus circuit. What you hear in this is what i heard when demoing.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks Starsky! I appreciate the reply. I definitely dig the sounds. Need me a fat analog synth for the collection and was mulling a used Little Phatty or one of these.
I probably missed it, but is this through monitors or an amp?
the click ( 14.40 ) is driving me mad on my Poly D...you can hide it with a big full on sound, but bring the filter down like you do in the above video and the click is louder than the sound... I know you can turn up the attack, but that alters the sound..and adds a fade...not good with percussive sounds...
Some synths do it, and it adds to the character - good for clicky organs. I’m not a fan myself. The most annoying one I have is the noise on the MS20 when the filters closed. You just can’t use it in an empty mix.... the worst bit is it got me into sending signals to the Moogs, then the moogerfoogers, then control units... and into modular. I wish I never noticed (as does my bank account!).
@@StarskyCarr Hi, Thanks for getting back.... it makes this unusable with quiet sequences..? Surely it cant meant to be like it..? Im gutted as the synth is great...not sure what to do...wondering if they all do it
Why IS there an additional on/off switch for the choruses … ?
Is there LFO bleedthrough otherwise, or something … ?!?!
It's a mystery.
Ooh , 🤘🏽🦞
I've had mine a fortnight and love it, but still trying to master the sequencer. I can't figure out how to record and store a 2nd, 3rd sequence (and so on), after the 1st one. I just end up overwriting the 1st one. I downloaded the so-called "Manual" but it doesn't seem to tell us how to do that.
It took me a while as well. It’s something like shift + record to enter write mode then change the pattern number then press record to save. Fiddly.
hi starky. im not femiliar with the mini or model d. never haad one. couple of months ago i bought the poly d which i love. i turn off the velocity level to 127 as you said in synth tool. but i can't get any pacthes out of it like any demo videos i watch on youtube or yours now. overall the synth behaves a bit weird in the poly mode, to me: if i play with the keys sudenly another voice pops up. is it me doing something wrong or the synth is broken?? im about to send it back to the music store using the warranty. would be great if you can say something!!
There are 3 playing modes - 2 oddments which cycle through the voices. It sounds like you’re in on of them. The green switch in the top left changes the modes. I can’t remember off hand which one is for polyphonic playing. But look at that. The manual explains the modes, I mention them in one of my videos. if that doesn’t sort it the. Maybe there’s an issue with the synth.
Hy Starsky Carr! Thanks for this great video (like ALL your videos!). I raised the "electronic quality" subject on UA-cam, GearSlutz & Audiofanzine and it is hard to obtain an answer. To sell at a very low price, a manufacturer usually use low cost components and I don't want to buy a cheaper "Minimoog" (Poly D / Model D) that could be out of order in 5 years that nobody can repair... Do you know anyone good in electronics able to analyse the components used by Moog and Behringer to determine which one is the easiest to maintain and will have the longest service life? Because I'm personally very worried about the electronic quality of the Behringer.
I don't think any are worse/better than others. They all use the same electronic component suppliers. The main exceptions would be something like the Minimoog or Prophet 5. reissue that use 70's technology. But Behringer have their own state of the art manufacturing plant and has control over its own facility. They also give 3 year warranties which can give some confidence. They sell loads more synths than others so pro-rata you'll hear about more issues, but I've only had one issue and that was a design flaw.. the WASP had a retriggering issues on the first units. I got a full refund. I've since bought a new one and its fine.. I've had problems with synths from all the major manufacturers .. yes even my Minimoog ! So this isn't something I take into account tbh. Nothing new is designed for repair on a component level.
Now this is showing off. Am I jealous ? I’m not jealous, I’m not jealous, no, I’m not jealous. Okkkk I’m jealous, green with jealousy.
C pL Lol
Fantastic video! May I ask, (if yes, I'll be sure to give credit for use of the sample) but I've started getting into music making myself, and I really love the analog synth intro at the start of this video, it reminds me of driving into a town or city at sunset, and was wondering if I could use it as a sample in one of my upcoming projects? Many thanks for your videos and keep up the great work! 😀
It is the number one selling Behringer product at the moment. Even outselling the mixers.
That thing is gorgeous.
Behringer are a super company
Excellent synth for the price!
Discontinued?
I don’t think so but they’re having trouble getting chips so everything is delayed.
Awesome video! Do you know the dimensions of the poly d? I am wondering if it's bigger than the Korg Microkorg. Thanks!
It’s loads bigger than the micro Korg!! About 36x65 cm and around 10kg
12:24 turn up the attack?
Hi Starsky Carr, Did your Poly D come with a hard-copy manual? Mine did not! Perhaps this is the norm? Thanks, Paul
No I didn’t get a hard copy. The click is sorted with a tiny amount of amp env attack. I was just thrown when making the video as I’d spent the weekend playing the Minimoog and expected like for like, but obviously they’re different in quite a few ways!
@@StarskyCarr Many thanks. I'll see if I can download the manual. I did receive a hard copy manual with their Vocoder though. I'll also test out your anti click remedy, thanks. I've only had the keyboard for about 4 hours :-)
I had the Juno 06A and I loved it until it started glitching out
Is there any update about the Clicking issue ?
It’s normal, a couple of others have noticed the same. It’s an easy fix, just add a little amp env attack. I’d been using the Minimoog extensively for a couple of days prior to recording this and had expected them to be identical so it threw me a little. It’s nothing that would overly concern me. The Prophet 6 has a similar click.
Wait until these things start breaking down, my Grandmother Moog sounded so good, already died on me after 6 months playing it. Pretty bad board design cost of budget.
My GM needed a new cutoff pot after 6 months as well!!
why would they break?
Starsky Carr Same here! Mine took about 7 or 8 months before it developed a nasty crackle.
Same issue on the cutoff pot as well. Send my first GM back only to find that the second one developed the same problem after a few months...
@@jellemalomgre846 Thanks for the info. I'm currently waiting for mine to be returned.
I'm still waiting for mine. Due here in the states in April. I'm wondering if that click persists if the attack is backed off a bit.
Yeah, just nudge it by a mm and it disappears. I was in full-on Minimoog mode at the time having been playing it all weekend.
klingt nicht ganz wie der Moog
Is it possible to clock LFO’s via midi?
No, just like the Minimoog you have very little MIDI CC. Velocity, pitch bend,modulation and note is pretty much all you get.
Still trying to find out if this sounds and functions like the regular model d that Behringher put out. If so, then and only will i get this. ANYONE KNOW?
I’ll let you know soon... will be comparing with the Minimoog, which I also did a comparison with the Behringer Model D.
I suspect they’ll be very similar if not identical.
@@StarskyCarr thank you sir
Are they basically manufacturing this stuff in sweatshops? I’m not concerned about IP but if they’re brutalizing Korean grandmas working ten hours a day with no AC, then no, I won’t be a part of that
No?
Judging by the photos of their facility it seems very clean and healthy. Like, cleaner than the distribution plant *I* work at.
If you want to argue about 'what about when the cameras are off???' Then you're probably better off not buying any mass-produced product, at all, ever.
@@jackpijjin4088 you seem rly upset about a question regarding the working conditions of laborers for a company that sells extremely cheap products. Not sure why. A clean shop doesn’t say anything about whether employees are dramatically overworked and extremely underpaid (they could simply have really tyrannical management that enforces extreme cleanliness at the expense of workers rather than for their benefit). And yeah, I do object to all forms of wage labor, but that doesn’t mean that they are all equally brutal. The lows can be very low. I’m not interested in slavery by another name. Sorry you’re offended that someone might care about these people.
@@herschoolcolors Upset? What? How? I'm just engaging in discussion.
The way women, children, and indeed the elderly are treated in such environments is absolutely abhorrent and fueled only by corporate greed and absolutely should not be tolerated in any way. I was stating that Behringer has shown that they don't tolerate that, which is why they opened their own manufacturing facility which is presumably of higher standard at least judging by their 'insightful' images. The statement at the end was regarding the fact that anybody can change the perception of their ethics by either doctoring images or setting up false or staged imagery- including Behringer but I'm personally inclined to doubt that because unlike Apple or Samsung or Nike, etc, they have a lot to lose when it comes to public support and/or outcry.
Does this need tuning like the behringer model D?
There are calibration access holes in the rear panel if it needs it, but it’s not expected as a day to day occurrence. I haven’t experienced any tuning issues.
Awesome!
Great vid, thanks! I finally got mine this week and I love some of the capabilities like the paraphonic arps, where you can cycle through the oscillators. I love to use this in some projects, but I can't seem to get the arp to sync to my DAW or even to get it working at all when feeding midi from the DAW. I can alternatively us the arp capabilities from the DAW, but then I can't seem to make them cycle through the different oscillators. Any thoughts?
same here no sync
@@robinsonvanvliet Still didn't manage to get this to work btw.
This was Behringer response: "Hi there, thanks for choosing the Poly D, we hope you enjoy the big beefy sound :) You need to load the app and you can setup the midi clock from there so it syncs to your daw either via USB midi or DIN midi. Remember to keep the USB connection free though when loading the app, if you try and load it whilst the USB connection is live in your DAW or any other software the app won't connect."
Hey starsky, can the Poly D send midi messages to other units? i.e. octave +/- via the use of the octave switch
No, just midi notes, velocity and after touch.
Starsky Carr cheers for the prompt response! How would you compare it to the BOdyssey? I realise they are different beasts, but what’s your opinion
Nice demo and that auto damp feature is very nice!
1:09 oh nonononononno