It’s insane how the Sonic franchise really was dictated by people who just remember Sonic for being that old video game that was a rival franchise to Mario.
@@heroicgangster9981 I'd highly recommend watching either Matt McMuscles' video on the Sega Dreamcast or Golden Bolt's videos on SA1 and SA2. There was a lot of turmoil going on with Sega during the SA1/SA2 period. Failing to launch a flagship Sonic title for the Saturn led to poor sales and put immense pressure for the next main Sonic title to be an absolute hit. SA1 was incredibly ambitious but wasn't even nearly enough for the Dreamcast to compete against the PS2. By the time SA2 launched, Sega had already stopped manufacture for the Dreamcast. All hope was lost and the company was basically bankrupt. Like we were incredibly close to the timeline where Sega goes under and SA2 is the last game. So at that point Sega and Sonic Team were desperate and grasping at straws. So if you have a loud minority, Sega was more than willing to appease them.
@@snakey888yeah he was at his peak success wise with the first game, but recently (especially with some massive help from the movies) sonic has been returning to the spotlight in a much more positive light.
Sonic gameplay isn’t for everyone, but some people use that as a “sonic sucks argument”, which yeah occasionally he does, the argument over the years (especially when there were some really bad sonic games like boom) has been overblown. I remember people complaining constantly about how Sonic Forces is bad and how Sonic Unleashed is still garbage (one half of it anyway), and now so many people have just agreed that it was always good, and Sonic Forces (for me at least) is slightly better when I started trying to speedrun Sunset Heights. And it’s pretty fun. The game is still really boring (except the music, that soundtrack is real nice). I’ve also wondered if Sonic & The Black Knight is any good since I really dig the aesthetic of the Storybook Games (and Frontiers to, since it’s similar). Maybe it will actually be fun with a controller instead of motion controls. Or maybe it won’t work at all.
Sega marketing Sonic 4 with the fact that Sonic's "annoying friends" weren't playable was an incredibly horrible and evil thing to do, especially when you consider the fact the game came out around the same time as New Super Mario Wii and Rayman Origins. Why wouldn't you want to play as Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, the Chaotix, Rouge or even Shadow in a 2D Platformer?
It’s also kind of weird how Cream has just been ousted, she wasn’t even in Team Sonic Racing. I mean Tails has been “8” for more than 30 years now. The mandates must be weird.
Sega/Sonic Team was basically in a Stockholm syndrome relation to people that viewed the Sonic Series as nothing more than a punching bag, Sega continuing to bend the knee for these people as a point of reference/feedback put the series in a stagnant state it was obvious Sega/Sonic Team didn't know what to do. Luckily they were able to free themselves from that Stockholm and start getting people that were legitimately passionate for the series regardless of all the low points
To be fair, the ones that are passionate don't stay with Sega for long. The key people behind games like Unleashed and Generations left Sega. Even the Mania team seemingly have little to nothing to do with Sega anymore.
Shadow managing to get out of the slump they put his character through is a sign that Sega can turn a character around if they want to, now we just gotta hope they'll do that with other members of the cast
06 honestly had a really cool system for handling the multiple playable characters, felt like a compromise between all the previous games. Just wish they controlled better
@@ORLY911 why do you want a game for both of them together ? How about keeping them separated instead of just forcing them together like this all the time.
I feel something worth pointing out about SEGA's mentality in regards to Sonic's friends is how their absence (or "rejection") was used as a selling point during the lead up to Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Of note were characters like Shadow, Amy, Shade, Charmy, Vector, Big, Chip and "Sonic's new friend, Mr. Needlemouse". All of them "rejected", leaving only Sonic highlighted. That speaks volumes about SEGA's desperation and attempt to appeal to that loud minority that wanted nothing but Sonic 1-3, but again (while completely ignoring all the 2D Sonics on handheld, apparently). And the end result was a half-baked attempt at nostalgia bait, trying to ride the Mega Man 9 and 10 coattails.
Interested in seeing some UA-camrs finally talking about this issue. I think the problem surrounding Sonic in the late 2000’s going into the 2010’s was a combination of the fickle feedback from fans and SEGA’s constant changing decisions with the series. They want to please as many people as possible but after Forces, I think they finally realized that they cannot be a Jack of all trades. The problem that I don’t think many people realize is that SEGA really takes fan feedback to heart. To the point where they take it too far and try to fix something that wasn’t broken. Case in point, the series’s tone and gameplay that is still fluctuating to this day. Some of the fans suggested adding guns to the Sonic games to mix things up and make the brand more mature, and that’s how we got Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006. The fans then said that Sonic should not be that serious. They dialed things back with Unleashed and still got burnt by critics who didn’t like the werehog gimmick. SEGA said alright fine, we’ll have no stakes whatsoever, Sonic stops Eggman, that’s it. That’s what the people want. Hire two writers who are not the least bit familiar with the franchise to pen the Western localizations for these games. Surely their dialogue will breathe new life into this series. (Anyone remember when they tried to rebrand Sonic’s image with that Sonic Boom cartoon and Rise of Lyric game? Honestly, I already forgot.) Wait, people do want a more serious Sonic story? Sonic Frontiers is a very flawed game, but it serves as a very promising foundation for what is to come if Sonic Team decides to stick with this format. Aside from awful wall running and the jumps carrying a little too much weight, I would say that Frontiers Sonic is the best he has controlled in years. When fully leveled up, you feel like an unstoppable force of nature. Like a knight of the wind! The tone of the story is also well done. It feels pretty close to the Dreamcast - Sonic X era of story and characterization. Not serious to the point of being edgy or dour, but not treated as a complete joke either.
Man did IGN and other “critics” really ruin Sonic’s image, and it didn’t help that SEGA really took those “criticisms” to heart. Thank God SEGA is getting out of that phase.
It helps that people are starting to realize that the words of these so-called "critics" are little more than preachy bullshit. Not just with Sonic games but games in General.
@@snakey888 While they didn’t make the games, they did heavily influence SEGA’s decisions when making games, with remarks such as “Sonic’s friends ruin everything” or “Sonic was never good” that negatively impacted many of Sonic’s games during that era.
@@HahaFunn1Naem What games were negatively impacted? Besides, it's Sega's responsibility to address criticism in the most sensible way, ignoring it if necessary.
It’s sad how we’ve gone from ‘Sonic has too many friends and they’re overused’ to ‘why can’t we play as any other character other than Sonic?’ Like these ppl were complaining abt Sonic having a large cast and then later complaining on how underused that large cast is and it’s like yeah it’s cus u guys whined when u had to play as someone like Amy
@@tjlnintendowhen did a say that everyone in the community was like that? Obviously there are ppl who never thought Sonic having to many friends or playable characters were an issue
@@eclipse5708yeah I do. The first two mech stages for Tails aren’t good, but the next two are really fun. It made me realise that for Sonic games, most games in the series can become fun if you play them like Sonic. Gotta Go Fast (speedrunning basically). Fishing was a nice relaxing break from the pretty boring Hunting stages in Adventure, but not enough to save you from Amy’s atrocious side of the game). And Treasure hunting in SA2 is fun, except for again, the first two stages (Punpkin Hill is actually more so okay, but I prefer the others, for some reason).
Aside from making Sonic's friends playable again, I also think they deserve their own games. There's a lot of potential SEGA isn't tapping into. I actually like '06's attempt at managing the story, characters, and level design. It just suck that everything bad about the game eclipses the positives.
Okay I don’t wanna be that d rider fan, but other than Knuckles and maybe Silver, a game with anyone other than Sonic and Shadow being the main front focus would sell as well if we’re being brutally honest. However they still deserve more chances in the spotlight in future games to become playable again
Sonic unleashed was my favorite game, until i saw how 06 uses the characters and how the gameplay is more open. That i fell in love with the adventure style gameplay
@@internetera1523 actually given that deception is one of his favorite fighting games, and this year was the 20th anniversary of deception, shocked he didn't review it this year
People basically just overreacted to Sonic 2006 and got the idea that Sonic's friends (or having a more serious story) were the issue rather than just bad gameplay.
Does not help that between sa1 and 06 the other characters generally did have sub par gameplay, so a strong association formed between Sonic's friends and bad gameplay. Especially when taking into account that Sonic usually had good, or at least much better gameplay.
@@iceman92211 I'm talking in a relative sense. Like the story is the closest thing to a diamond in an already rough ass mountain... more like a piece of coal but hey at least you can get something out of it.
Sonic with a broad cast of characters is why I loved the games. Playing the same character every game is repetitive and boring, so having the whole cast feels better. And it doesn't feel like it should be hard to make everyone play differently since everyone has different abilities.
Project 06 offers a good approach to several characters playable, in how all nine are fun to use and are similar in how they control yet differentiated enough to where they aren't pallete swaps.
@@aarondx3764 Yeah, its identity was the worst Sonic game, and an argument for killing the series, or selling it to a more competent company. 2010's werent that great either, but nothing then was as bad as 06.
And they still can't give Blaze the respect she deserves. Sonic '06 just murdered her, right after her debut edit: and I'm not talking about Silver's ending lmao
It's not like she was ever a super interesting character. Cool design, but her story is boring and largely irrelevant/inconsistent multiverse nonsense.
just look at the murder of sonic the hedgehog. Sonic dies very early on and the game is carried by everyone else. happens to be one of the best recent sonic games and it was april fools
My main thing is the fact i want some of the cast to get spin-offs without Sonic, like yea shadow is more than likely good to get another spin-off without Sonic, but what about silver, blaze give them some time in the spotlight as well sega
Well that's because the platforming is still the same regardless of what character you're playing Whereas I don't think anyone playing sonic is a fan of froggy fishing
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha No, no boshwa20 is right. Who wants a dumb fishing minigame that takes up an entire campaign? That's the real issue with Sonic's friends, the gameplay didn't really fit the series' core appeal. In a game that's about speeding through platforming levels, you want the extra characters to provide a different take on that style. Not some random unrelated gimmick.
Honestly as someone who hasn't played many Sonic games but is familiar with the series and likes the franchise well enough, the extended cast is something I actually like. It would suck if it was like Mario where it is mainly just Mario and maybe Luigi in some random ass location that will be forgotten in the next game with characters that are likely to be forgotten in the next game as well. The fact that Sonic has all these unique characters is cool and I would love to see more of them. At worse, they need to improve their gameplay gimmicks and make them work with the pacing but having different characters could easily augment the experience as oppose to destroying it.
Man, Sonic and Dragon Ball has more in common than I gave credit for, Dragon Ball also misuses their extras (Especially Gohan and Piccolo up until recently)
Even down to the fans, they're similar. Some people have some of the most braindead takes I have ever heard in my life. And I haven't even been following Sonic stuff for as long as I've been following Dragon Ball!
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha Knuckles sort of got the Yamcha treatment with him being the butt of a lot of jokes. Like in Old Generations and Lost world. Amy even knocks him towards a tree. Of course its meant for comedy but it made knuckles look bad. Also…. Forces Tails…. Oh my god they ruined Tails so bad in Forces.
If Sonic’s friends were so “annoying,” why were their personalities not changed? For a time, between 2010 to 2017, SEGA did in fact changed them-for the worse. It made them look both inept _and_ incompetent because we never understood what we were doing.
The problem isn’t the friends, it’s Sega’s insistence on having multiple game styles, even when it leads to the detriment of the game. Sonic Unleashed was beloved, but everyone agreed that Sega probably shouldn’t have bothered with the half-baked werehog levels and tried to get more daytime gameplay included. Sonic 06 removing all the friends wouldn’t have fixed all the problem Sonic Team had during development, but it sure would have forced them to focus on refining the core gameplay. Ironically, despite being “proof” that Sonic is “bettter” without his friends in the way, Unleashed would be improved if Sonic’s friends did more. Tails should not be regulated to mandatory minigames, Amy should be more than a pointless npc, Knuckles should definitely be asking what happened to the chaos emeralds, and Shadow would show up insisting that the werehog is slowing them down and he should be handling the emeralds. Not all of these ideas can or should be implemented, but some consideration of what the other characters are doing would be nice.
Hit the nail on the head, great video. Love the spite too! Sonic is *more* than the Genesis-era! And it's great to see SEGA realize that now since the Adventure-era fans have gotten older and picked up the microphone.
I think laying off of Sonic's friends for the next few games WAS a good idea purely because the more Sega had to develop alternate gameplay styles, the less polished the main gameplay would be, making the whole experience suffer as a result. I like how Frontiers approached things now. Sonic as the only character in the main game, then Tails, Knuckles and Amy get their own stuff as a free DLC. Hell, I and many others wouldn't mind getting paid DLC with missions and even a unique small storyline for a bunch of characters like Shadow, Rogue, Cream, Omega, the Chaotix etc.
That's why I said we need to the more popular characters to have their own subseries, particularly Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, and Silver. Let the least popular characters be a secondary to the one they have a relationship with and that will give them a chance to be in a spotlight. To solve the "too many friends" problem, I suggest making some characters no more than NPCs if we cannot completely retcon them. Characters such as Chip and Elise are Professor Pickle would be such characters to be non-playable.
06 was probably one of the best methods that could be used to incorporate a large cast with different play styles. 3 main stories(with one main character for each) building up to a final story(while also including some other characters to play a few stages as well as the endgame section where you get a quick but hard level with each character.) I think a story following 2-4 main characters alongside 1-2 other characters in each of their routes is the best method to include as many characters as you can
A Amy Rose spin off could be interesting with Peach and Zelda getting their own games so why not? It can also bring back some forgotten friends like Cream and Mighty.
I blame certain outlets like the Escapist. I always loved Sonic's friends and they were never the problem, but more like Sega had no idea how to utilize them outside of GBA and DS spin-offs, which is a shame. SA2 and Heroes are my favorite Sonic games and I wished the formula continued. But it seems after 06, Sega got scared of trying to write deep and impactful stories using Sonic's friends and stuck to low-to-the-ground stories with just Sonic for a while. Then they tried it again with Forces and botched it so hard by trying to play things too safe with the story and characters.
@snakey888 They were done perfectly in SA2. Don't know what you're talking about. Only problem with Heroes was were the lack of Chao and wonky controls at times.
@@Netherwolf6100 Not in terms of gameplay. The other characters were give really boring and tedious gameplay that had nothing to do with Sonic gameplay.
@@Netherwolf6100 One of the purposes is for them to have fun and engaging gameplay, in line with the series standards. Sa2 failed spectacularly in that regard. If you believe otherwise, then perhaps you are part of the problem.
The problem was never the cast but how they were used in terms of story and gameplay. When they are written well and incoorperated into the game plaay in such a way they are fun they add so much to the series.
If Shadow Gens is a sign of things to come, then I'm froathing at the mouth for Sonic Friends having spinoffs Get Hardlight out of the mobile division and give them the resources for a full Blaze platformer (Sonic Rush 3 minus the Sonic) Let Atlus take a crack at a new Sonic RPG taking place in Silver's future RGG... Yakuza but Knuckles + Chaotix
I’ve personally always wanted to see a dedicated Silver game that uses the inFAMOUS series (those sandbox-style character action-combat-platformer games from the PS3) as inspiration for its gameplay, with an appropriate story, world and aesthetic.
I think in general, a lot of the dumber complaints about the series stemmed from the fact that Sonic 06 released around the time every day people started using UA-cam given the website was roughly a little more than a year old at the time.
SEGA has gotten in their own way for decades now, but this decade plus of this loud minority helped really damaged the franchise. Them and the Sonic bashers/people who thought only the 2D games were good and were inflexible and whatnot didn't go away until rather recently. A lot of these folks thought that having Sonic's friends and multiple playstyles was problematic, but when classic Sonic came back for the 3rd time for Forces, they apparently were fine with it.
@@snakey888 I agree that the way Heroes and Shadow 2005 handled things was wrong, but SEGA took the wrong lessons from that. They needed to do what was suggested in this video.
This is something that I’ve been thinking about lately with sonic 3 and shadow generations. I missed shadow, then it made me miss knuckles and it snow balled from there. The characters were there- sometimes. But they always felt behind the background. Barley there. Personally I hope they come back to the forefront. I really enjoyed them in that sonic show on Netflix. Made the world feel more fun imo. Also Merry Christmas to all who celebrate!! ☺️ and have a wonderful new year
Hell, I'd say Sonic's variety in settings and characters, with a story that took itself (too) seriously is a big part as to why the series is still so popular. At least I know that's why, as a kid that grew up with the "dark era" games, I loved the world of Sonic much more than Mario's.
Nah, I think you've missed the mark on why Sonic's friends were hated. The main issue has been that a lot of times their gameplay has been so far removed from the series' core gameplay that they're just not fun. Most of the complaints about Sonic friends has been less about them being playable and more about how they play. In a game that's about speeding through levels, it's not very fun to stop that to wander around looking for Emerald shards, trudge through a level on a mech shooting enemies, or walking around to fish. Those styles don't really have the same appeal. That's why removing Sonic's friends and replacing it with the Werehog didn't work, they focused on the wrong aspect of the problem.
Couldn't agree more. I'd kill for a game where I can play as the wider Sonic cast these days. I'd kill to play as Omega and Vector in a good game in the modern age
For real. Back in the they, people insisting that Sonic having a recurring cast, while often the same people wanted one off Mario characters to return was kind of insane to me.
I hated the whole “Sonic’s friends are the problem” I love a full cast of colorful characters and I’m glad the movies are introducing more and more with every sequel
All things considered Sonic's cast is a pretty standard size for a franchise of it's breadth. You have about 5-10 recurring characters and several minor ones that are important to single stories and cameo in subsequent ones. Getting pissed about Sonic's extended cast like getting pissed that a long-running tv show has so many characters and isn't just three people max in a universe otherwise devoid of life.
06 is really THE best usage of Sonics friends, everyone mattered, everyone got a chance to shine. I honestly hate THOSE Sonic stans (Watchmojo and many others) who complain about really stupid things, I always like what the 06 era did, and I hope we see more. This is why I think some Sonic fan projects tend to better.
Even sonic friends are part of the franchise in every genesis game introduces at least 1 new character 1 sonic, eggman 2 sonic tails, eggman Cd sonic, amy, metal sonic 3 sonic, tails, knuckles, eggman
There was definitely more nuance to the sonic’s friends criticism: imo there is a problem with making EVERY character playable like in the millenium era games because in 3D you need to give them unique abilities and levels built around those abilities. Whereas in the 2D games it was easier to develop multiple playable characters because you didnt need to reinvent the wheel. Knuckles is essentially Sonic with a shorter jump and a glide, because the levels are already vertical you can get some use out of him without having to change things so drastically. Then with Adventure a level like Windy Valley if you played that as Knuckles he’d be able to skip most of it. This is sort of demonstrated by Tails, his style of play turns 2 minute levels into 1 minute levels and 3 minute levels into 2 minute levels not helped by having to cut out sections not suited for his abilities and wouldnt be fun to play in The solution to this shouldve been, however, to pair down the use of Sonic’s friends instead of treating them like poison. For some reason Sega thought Knuckles would be a step too far to play as, even tho he was interested in the initial wave of Sonicmania and who couldve easily been used in a game like Unleashed’s and wouldve improved that gameplay because the level design is fine but the controls needed something akin to a glide and climb feature instead of being so unforgiving to mistakes. Sega also didnt really listen to the criticism REALLY, in the sense of that the spirit of the talking point shouldve been “focus on making a ton of content for one gameplay style, with alt characters acting as variations on a theme” but instead it was taken as “include alternate play style in which you need to design new levels and mechanics for, just make us play as some alt version of Sonic in them”
nah knuckles gameplay in adventure was fire you got to experience a whole other level when you take it slow and use it as a metal detector playground seeing a whole other part that you just zoomed past as sonic like a new floor in the casino or just the ending part of speedy highway made revisiting the levels you beat an entire different experience
@richardlionerheart1945 i wasnt saying at all that Knuckles’ gameplay was bad in Adventure, just that objectively the levels had to be changed or revamped to accomodate his playstyle because if they made him have the same goals as Sonic he would finish the levels way faster. The gameplay is fine, it’s just that it was a programming challenge to make six different characters work in a way it wasnt in 2D
@@maydaymemer4660 This is a common misconception, that because of the 3d, they somehow needed to make the drastic changes to the other characters' gameplay. A much more simpler and faithful approach that definitely could be implemented is to simply nerf the aspects that could break it otherwise, such as flying or gliding. Something they did in Heroes to the extreme where Knuckles lost his ability to both glide and climb. But there are plenty of other ways to balance that.
All the mobile games and speed simulator inclusions of side characters is indicator enough Sega has noticed they are marketable, people must be buying spins for them. Im sure they'll get their time in the sun soon enough in a mainline game.
well, atleast the IDW has done the side cast of sonic justice from what I have read. Hoping Silver, Blaze, The Chaotix, Cream, Big, and even Marine start getting to do stuff in the future. Also hope that some of the classic characters like Mighty, Ray, Honey, the Hooligans, Tails Doll, Metal Knuckles, ect get modern interpretations.
I don't know what you think you're reading, but the focus has mostly been on the OCs of the comic; Tangle, Whisper, Lanolin, Surge, Kit, etc. Yeah, Sonic and friends are in there, but Tails isn't any better. Cream's been borderline useless and hasn't been present for months because "she's too young to go on adventures." Silver's been getting disrespected by Lanolin, the sheep bi-yotch.
@@mr.unsmiley8656 the Metal Virus arc gave a lot of characters important moments like having them get a chaos emerald back from a member of the deadly six for example, which is better than what the 2010s games did by having them be background decoration at best or straight up non existent.
Goin' from knockin' on NetherRealm Studios' handling of the characters and story of the reboot Mortal Kombat games to doing Sonic content, eh? A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome(?) one.
6:04 / 6:33 I saw a video from *Kiro Talks* the video he made is call *“The Sonic Friend that deserves better”* He talks mostly about Silver the Hedgehog. He does like the character but Silver had bad reputation for debuting in Sonic 06. Kiro Talks tries to explain if Silver’s future had change is after the end of Sonic 06. Kiro many explanations and he is not even sure. I just recently watched a video from *DevieDark,* as they both talk about Silver should get his own game. They talk about how Sonic with sonic movie, and Shadow Generations and the IDW being canon, they both Silver and his future can make many possibilities
I’d only say cut his friends because they aren’t utilized narratively or integration into the games. The core weakness to Sonic’s caster is primarily underutilized. They don’t do anything. Tails’ Sonic’s best friend and he isn’t making sweet tech for him. Knuckle’s pretty much lost rival status to Shadow. The weakness is Sonic games are speed runners so they don’t know HOW to integrate the class into the game mechanically or narratively.
The idea of having multiple playable characters wasn't the problem it was the execution. They were either too gimmicky or deviating from Sonic's gameplay (e.g Adventure games) or just had bad gameplay like 06. Nobody complained about multiple characters in the 2D games because they essentially played the same as Sonic with their unique traits.
Orbot wasn't introduced in Colors. He was introduced in Unleashed. Only Cubot was introduced in Colors. The SW prequels (or more specifically the popular narratives around them) didn't impact the direction of the franchise in nearly the same way that those about the extended Sonic cast did, so I'm not really sure how great of a comparison that was. Lastly, the recent direction of the franchise's treatment of the extended Sonic cast in recent years is much more significant than you give it credit for. The Final Horizon, Dream Team, Superstars, and Shadow Gens have impressive rosters of alternate characters and play-styles, and try their best to utilize the extended cast in sensible ways beyond gameplay, which has been a massive improvement over where we were just 5-10 years ago.
My favorite character is silver and I’ve come to terms with the fact that he’s never gonna be playable in anything besides the spin-off party games. I’ve even come to terms that he’s not gonna be apart of the sonic movies. Once you give up hope things feel a lot better.
@@KperaOfficial Not really, the other styles were heavily criticised. The ones who really accepted them was Nintendo kiddies who's first Sonic game was sa2b.
@@KperaOfficial Nah, I've seen a lot of hate towards those styles for years. Most of the love towards them seems to be more because of the hype and later nostalgia towards them being the first 3D games. I've seen little praise for them for their own merits.
I blame this mentality moreso on Sega, the Dreamcast wasn't a particularly successful console, nor was the Gamecube so most people missed out on the Adventure games and their introduction to a lot of the extended cast would've been through the likes of Heroes and '06 which weren't particularly very good so I imagine it was sort of a Pavlov's dog situation where people associated the poor quality of the games with these new characters they didn't know. Not to say this mentality isn't stupid (because it is) but there's a reason why it formed.
I think '06 definitely handled the extended cast poorly though, half of them don't need to be there and add nothing to the plot with gameplay sections so short you wonder why they even bothered programming them in and in the case of Blaze it blatantly causes continuity errors.
It is amazing that sonic fans saying Sonic friends are the problem ignoring Sonic Mania where Sonic’s friends are playable as him. Including Mighty and Ray. And games before that like Sonic Rivals. Does anyone played Sonic Superstar? I haven’t pay it myself. Do you think Trip the Sungazer should join Mighty and Ray to make their own Trio team? Mighty Power Ray Flight Trip Speed. While Mighty is the leader. You know trying mix things up Also since Tangle and Whisper, has official debut in Sonic game do you think they form a trio team along with Jewel?
It’s insane how the Sonic franchise really was dictated by people who just remember Sonic for being that old video game that was a rival franchise to Mario.
Likely mostly by people who briefly played the first levels of Sonic 1 and 2 considering 3&K kept being ignored too.
That is when Sonic was at his peak, and Sega knows that considering to this day they are implementing various call backs to those games.
@@heroicgangster9981 I'd highly recommend watching either Matt McMuscles' video on the Sega Dreamcast or Golden Bolt's videos on SA1 and SA2.
There was a lot of turmoil going on with Sega during the SA1/SA2 period. Failing to launch a flagship Sonic title for the Saturn led to poor sales and put immense pressure for the next main Sonic title to be an absolute hit. SA1 was incredibly ambitious but wasn't even nearly enough for the Dreamcast to compete against the PS2.
By the time SA2 launched, Sega had already stopped manufacture for the Dreamcast. All hope was lost and the company was basically bankrupt. Like we were incredibly close to the timeline where Sega goes under and SA2 is the last game.
So at that point Sega and Sonic Team were desperate and grasping at straws. So if you have a loud minority, Sega was more than willing to appease them.
@@snakey888yeah he was at his peak success wise with the first game, but recently (especially with some massive help from the movies) sonic has been returning to the spotlight in a much more positive light.
Sonic gameplay isn’t for everyone, but some people use that as a “sonic sucks argument”, which yeah occasionally he does, the argument over the years (especially when there were some really bad sonic games like boom) has been overblown. I remember people complaining constantly about how Sonic Forces is bad and how Sonic Unleashed is still garbage (one half of it anyway), and now so many people have just agreed that it was always good, and Sonic Forces (for me at least) is slightly better when I started trying to speedrun Sunset Heights. And it’s pretty fun. The game is still really boring (except the music, that soundtrack is real nice). I’ve also wondered if Sonic & The Black Knight is any good since I really dig the aesthetic of the Storybook Games (and Frontiers to, since it’s similar). Maybe it will actually be fun with a controller instead of motion controls. Or maybe it won’t work at all.
I'm glad SEGA finally learned from their past mistakes and improved drastically this year. And just gave the spotlight to Shadow XD
Ah yes, my favorite character, Shaodw the Hedgeohg! :P
Meanwhile poor Silver has been left to the wayside
Tbf, Shadow always was the second most popular character in the whole franchise. And besides, he's really cool.
As they should
@@TheGraveKnight we can only hope, that 26 will be year of Silver and maybe go through with Remake/Remaster of 06
Sega marketing Sonic 4 with the fact that Sonic's "annoying friends" weren't playable was an incredibly horrible and evil thing to do, especially when you consider the fact the game came out around the same time as New Super Mario Wii and Rayman Origins.
Why wouldn't you want to play as Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, the Chaotix, Rouge or even Shadow in a 2D Platformer?
Exactly now with frontiers I bet that guy sounds stupid now
It’s also kind of weird how Cream has just been ousted, she wasn’t even in Team Sonic Racing. I mean Tails has been “8” for more than 30 years now. The mandates must be weird.
The fact that Sega ever bothered listening to people who don't even like Sonic to begin with is quite the baffling outcome.
Freaking preach. The notion of Sonic’s expansive cast being at fault for series downfall is such a logical farce.
Sega/Sonic Team was basically in a Stockholm syndrome relation to people that viewed the Sonic Series as nothing more than a punching bag, Sega continuing to bend the knee for these people as a point of reference/feedback put the series in a stagnant state it was obvious Sega/Sonic Team didn't know what to do. Luckily they were able to free themselves from that Stockholm and start getting people that were legitimately passionate for the series regardless of all the low points
To be fair, the ones that are passionate don't stay with Sega for long. The key people behind games like Unleashed and Generations left Sega. Even the Mania team seemingly have little to nothing to do with Sega anymore.
Ah yes, the 2010s
The problem is that sega tries to please everyone, and just after that they decide to make the game.
So a Beauty and the Werehog situation, pretty cool take
Shadow managing to get out of the slump they put his character through is a sign that Sega can turn a character around if they want to, now we just gotta hope they'll do that with other members of the cast
06 honestly had a really cool system for handling the multiple playable characters, felt like a compromise between all the previous games. Just wish they controlled better
At least the fan created project 06 exists
One day they'll do a Silver focused game, with Blaze's anniversary next year and Silvers right after, i could see them making a game with those two
@@ORLY911 why do you want a game for both of them together ? How about keeping them separated instead of just forcing them together like this all the time.
@@iceman92211because they work well together, and they are both two sides of a similar coin in a way. It’s like Sonic = Blaze & Tails = Silver.
@@Squorzelreally? i dont see that dynamic at all if anything Marine has a more Tails/sidekick like dynamic with Blaze than Silver
You know what they say,
"The more the merrier."
“True dat”.
I blame Arin Hanson for this ngl. He is constantly digging into Sonic because it’s “bad”
I really fucking hate him too
He is so biased he fucking sucks playing and makes it look worse
Yeah I'm glad Sega ditched that retarded hack. Now if only WayForward would do the same
😂
Thankfully everyone finally stopped giving legitimacy to this moron.
I feel something worth pointing out about SEGA's mentality in regards to Sonic's friends is how their absence (or "rejection") was used as a selling point during the lead up to Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Of note were characters like Shadow, Amy, Shade, Charmy, Vector, Big, Chip and "Sonic's new friend, Mr. Needlemouse". All of them "rejected", leaving only Sonic highlighted.
That speaks volumes about SEGA's desperation and attempt to appeal to that loud minority that wanted nothing but Sonic 1-3, but again (while completely ignoring all the 2D Sonics on handheld, apparently). And the end result was a half-baked attempt at nostalgia bait, trying to ride the Mega Man 9 and 10 coattails.
Interested in seeing some UA-camrs finally talking about this issue. I think the problem surrounding Sonic in the late 2000’s going into the 2010’s was a combination of the fickle feedback from fans and SEGA’s constant changing decisions with the series. They want to please as many people as possible but after Forces, I think they finally realized that they cannot be a Jack of all trades.
The problem that I don’t think many people realize is that SEGA really takes fan feedback to heart. To the point where they take it too far and try to fix something that wasn’t broken. Case in point, the series’s tone and gameplay that is still fluctuating to this day.
Some of the fans suggested adding guns to the Sonic games to mix things up and make the brand more mature, and that’s how we got Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006. The fans then said that Sonic should not be that serious. They dialed things back with Unleashed and still got burnt by critics who didn’t like the werehog gimmick. SEGA said alright fine, we’ll have no stakes whatsoever, Sonic stops Eggman, that’s it. That’s what the people want. Hire two writers who are not the least bit familiar with the franchise to pen the Western localizations for these games. Surely their dialogue will breathe new life into this series.
(Anyone remember when they tried to rebrand Sonic’s image with that Sonic Boom cartoon and Rise of Lyric game? Honestly, I already forgot.)
Wait, people do want a more serious Sonic story?
Sonic Frontiers is a very flawed game, but it serves as a very promising foundation for what is to come if Sonic Team decides to stick with this format. Aside from awful wall running and the jumps carrying a little too much weight, I would say that Frontiers Sonic is the best he has controlled in years. When fully leveled up, you feel like an unstoppable force of nature. Like a knight of the wind! The tone of the story is also well done. It feels pretty close to the Dreamcast - Sonic X era of story and characterization. Not serious to the point of being edgy or dour, but not treated as a complete joke either.
Man did IGN and other “critics” really ruin Sonic’s image, and it didn’t help that SEGA really took those “criticisms” to heart. Thank God SEGA is getting out of that phase.
It helps that people are starting to realize that the words of these so-called "critics" are little more than preachy bullshit. Not just with Sonic games but games in General.
Why blame critics? They didn't make the games.
@@snakey888 While they didn’t make the games, they did heavily influence SEGA’s decisions when making games, with remarks such as “Sonic’s friends ruin everything” or “Sonic was never good” that negatively impacted many of Sonic’s games during that era.
That and 2010 youtube/social media.
Sonic with to many friends was overly hated for little to no reasons besides being "funny"
@@HahaFunn1Naem
What games were negatively impacted?
Besides, it's Sega's responsibility to address criticism in the most sensible way, ignoring it if necessary.
It’s sad how we’ve gone from ‘Sonic has too many friends and they’re overused’ to ‘why can’t we play as any other character other than Sonic?’ Like these ppl were complaining abt Sonic having a large cast and then later complaining on how underused that large cast is and it’s like yeah it’s cus u guys whined when u had to play as someone like Amy
You are acting like the entire community is a single person. It was classic fans crying about too many characters in the 2000s.
@@tjlnintendonot only classic fans but a lot of moron critics
Did you even watch the video?
@@tjlnintendowhen did a say that everyone in the community was like that? Obviously there are ppl who never thought Sonic having to many friends or playable characters were an issue
Fair point, the repetition definitely hurt the perception of some his friends, despite some of them having fun gameplay in their own right.
People find Emerald hunting, mech shooting, and fishing fun?
@@eclipse5708yeah I do. The first two mech stages for Tails aren’t good, but the next two are really fun. It made me realise that for Sonic games, most games in the series can become fun if you play them like Sonic. Gotta Go Fast (speedrunning basically). Fishing was a nice relaxing break from the pretty boring Hunting stages in Adventure, but not enough to save you from Amy’s atrocious side of the game). And Treasure hunting in SA2 is fun, except for again, the first two stages (Punpkin Hill is actually more so okay, but I prefer the others, for some reason).
Aside from making Sonic's friends playable again, I also think they deserve their own games. There's a lot of potential SEGA isn't tapping into.
I actually like '06's attempt at managing the story, characters, and level design. It just suck that everything bad about the game eclipses the positives.
Okay I don’t wanna be that d rider fan, but other than Knuckles and maybe Silver, a game with anyone other than Sonic and Shadow being the main front focus would sell as well if we’re being brutally honest. However they still deserve more chances in the spotlight in future games to become playable again
Sonic unleashed was my favorite game, until i saw how 06 uses the characters and how the gameplay is more open. That i fell in love with the adventure style gameplay
4thSnake now begins his transformation into a SonicTuber
We need the Deception review to climatically close the previous phase
@@internetera1523 actually given that deception is one of his favorite fighting games, and this year was the 20th anniversary of deception, shocked he didn't review it this year
People basically just overreacted to Sonic 2006 and got the idea that Sonic's friends (or having a more serious story) were the issue rather than just bad gameplay.
Yeah I always hate when people do that because frankly the story is the redeeming factor of that game.
Its just a fundamentally unfinished product.
@@TheUltimateMachineGod no the story of that game is terrible.
Does not help that between sa1 and 06 the other characters generally did have sub par gameplay, so a strong association formed between Sonic's friends and bad gameplay. Especially when taking into account that Sonic usually had good, or at least much better gameplay.
@@iceman92211 I'm talking in a relative sense. Like the story is the closest thing to a diamond in an already rough ass mountain... more like a piece of coal but hey at least you can get something out of it.
@@iceman92211 if you ignore the stuff with princess Elise, the story isn't bad. Mephiles was a pretty good villain.
Sonic with a broad cast of characters is why I loved the games. Playing the same character every game is repetitive and boring, so having the whole cast feels better. And it doesn't feel like it should be hard to make everyone play differently since everyone has different abilities.
Project 06 offers a good approach to several characters playable, in how all nine are fun to use and are similar in how they control yet differentiated enough to where they aren't pallete swaps.
Snake I swear. This is a early Christmas present. THANK YOU!!!!
THIS IS WHY I'LL ALWAYS SAY CRITICS CAUSED SONIC TO BE MID IN THE 2010s and did some serious damage to the franchise makin it lose its identity
The franchise already lost its identity in the 2000's with less than mid games back to back for a decade.
@@snakey888 bad taste, sorry
@@SR.PlayAlot64
You think games like 06 is good?
@@snakey888No, but 06 definitely had an identity lol.
@@aarondx3764
Yeah, its identity was the worst Sonic game, and an argument for killing the series, or selling it to a more competent company.
2010's werent that great either, but nothing then was as bad as 06.
And they still can't give Blaze the respect she deserves. Sonic '06 just murdered her, right after her debut
edit: and I'm not talking about Silver's ending lmao
It's not like she was ever a super interesting character. Cool design, but her story is boring and largely irrelevant/inconsistent multiverse nonsense.
@@deedoubs Her story is one of the best of the series!
@@deedoubs She's pretty much just a mix of Knuckles and Shadow, with none of the effort.
Then let's hope that if Silver gets a Generations game of his own, we get a touch on Blaze's Childhood after her rebirth.
Rush Adventure: exists
I'm glad you are one of few people who understood this part of Sonic
just look at the murder of sonic the hedgehog. Sonic dies very early on and the game is carried by everyone else.
happens to be one of the best recent sonic games and it was april fools
The main reason I've always loved Sonic comics is getting to see more from the wider cast.
My main thing is the fact i want some of the cast to get spin-offs without Sonic, like yea shadow is more than likely good to get another spin-off without Sonic, but what about silver, blaze give them some time in the spotlight as well sega
I blame zero punctuation and arin from game grump for this
Dorkly was peddling this take as well, claiming it “damaged the integrity of the series” or some nonsense like that
@@RLCguy It's so bad too because the Saturday Morning Cartoon era of Sonic games was sooooo god damn boring from a story telling perspective.
Funny how all of those creator were never good
No one actually takes yahtzees opinion seriously even the fans
@@RLCguyI will also blame SomecallmeJohnny for peddling that "Sonic shouldn't have basic storytelling and just be fourth wall jokes and quips"
And for some reason mario friends, who 90% of them play exactly as mario. Dont have any complains
Well that's because the platforming is still the same regardless of what character you're playing
Whereas I don't think anyone playing sonic is a fan of froggy fishing
I mean it depends on the game. In 3D World and Mario 2, each character would have their own abilities. Not to different from the 2D sonic games
Yeah the Mario Fandom is a cult of toxic fanboys who refuse to take any criticism of their favorite series.
@@boshwa20 Thanks for confirming that you know nothing about Sonic Games.
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha No, no boshwa20 is right. Who wants a dumb fishing minigame that takes up an entire campaign? That's the real issue with Sonic's friends, the gameplay didn't really fit the series' core appeal. In a game that's about speeding through platforming levels, you want the extra characters to provide a different take on that style. Not some random unrelated gimmick.
00s era e celebs and game journos has done so much damage to this franchise its insane
I think that most of Sonic's friends a better than the blue hedgehog himself. My personal favorites are Knuckles, Rouge, and Espio.
Same. Sonic on his own isn’t interesting and he shines his best when he bounces off other characters.
Honestly as someone who hasn't played many Sonic games but is familiar with the series and likes the franchise well enough, the extended cast is something I actually like. It would suck if it was like Mario where it is mainly just Mario and maybe Luigi in some random ass location that will be forgotten in the next game with characters that are likely to be forgotten in the next game as well. The fact that Sonic has all these unique characters is cool and I would love to see more of them. At worse, they need to improve their gameplay gimmicks and make them work with the pacing but having different characters could easily augment the experience as oppose to destroying it.
Good stuff, was never a Sonic guy myself but I enjoy watching you ripping into certain topics in video games.
Man, Sonic and Dragon Ball has more in common than I gave credit for, Dragon Ball also misuses their extras
(Especially Gohan and Piccolo up until recently)
Even down to the fans, they're similar. Some people have some of the most braindead takes I have ever heard in my life.
And I haven't even been following Sonic stuff for as long as I've been following Dragon Ball!
Nah Tien is the king of missued Dragon ball characters
None of the Sonic Characters were ever treated like Yamcha or Tien.
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha
Knuckles sort of got the Yamcha treatment with him being the butt of a lot of jokes. Like in Old Generations and Lost world. Amy even knocks him towards a tree. Of course its meant for comedy but it made knuckles look bad.
Also…. Forces Tails…. Oh my god they ruined Tails so bad in Forces.
@@DragonKingMadaraUchiha or Puar, Oolong, Roshi (Kinda), or even worse, Launch (Tho, Mighty and Ray do fit that category)
If Sonic’s friends were so “annoying,” why were their personalities not changed?
For a time, between 2010 to 2017, SEGA did in fact changed them-for the worse. It made them look both inept _and_ incompetent because we never understood what we were doing.
Like my friend said: thank you for making this video, it's my Christmas present!
How they're used was the problem. How anything is used is always the problem, not the thing itself.
The problem isn’t the friends, it’s Sega’s insistence on having multiple game styles, even when it leads to the detriment of the game. Sonic Unleashed was beloved, but everyone agreed that Sega probably shouldn’t have bothered with the half-baked werehog levels and tried to get more daytime gameplay included. Sonic 06 removing all the friends wouldn’t have fixed all the problem Sonic Team had during development, but it sure would have forced them to focus on refining the core gameplay.
Ironically, despite being “proof” that Sonic is “bettter” without his friends in the way, Unleashed would be improved if Sonic’s friends did more. Tails should not be regulated to mandatory minigames, Amy should be more than a pointless npc, Knuckles should definitely be asking what happened to the chaos emeralds, and Shadow would show up insisting that the werehog is slowing them down and he should be handling the emeralds. Not all of these ideas can or should be implemented, but some consideration of what the other characters are doing would be nice.
Now let them have good writing.
Hit the nail on the head, great video. Love the spite too!
Sonic is *more* than the Genesis-era! And it's great to see SEGA realize that now since the Adventure-era fans have gotten older and picked up the microphone.
I'm glad they're starting to rectify that with Shadow's stuff even though I despise Shadow Gens's story
I think laying off of Sonic's friends for the next few games WAS a good idea purely because the more Sega had to develop alternate gameplay styles, the less polished the main gameplay would be, making the whole experience suffer as a result.
I like how Frontiers approached things now. Sonic as the only character in the main game, then Tails, Knuckles and Amy get their own stuff as a free DLC. Hell, I and many others wouldn't mind getting paid DLC with missions and even a unique small storyline for a bunch of characters like Shadow, Rogue, Cream, Omega, the Chaotix etc.
8:17 I mean can't get mad at greatness. That's what paved the way for everything else we have today. The Ultimate Lightweight included. 😏🤣
Good vid, good recomendation, love the consistency Snake
It's good people are finally realizing sonic's friends were never the problem
Silver really just hauls his ass back in time to loiter god damn
That's why I said we need to the more popular characters to have their own subseries, particularly Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, and Silver. Let the least popular characters be a secondary to the one they have a relationship with and that will give them a chance to be in a spotlight. To solve the "too many friends" problem, I suggest making some characters no more than NPCs if we cannot completely retcon them. Characters such as Chip and Elise are Professor Pickle would be such characters to be non-playable.
06 was probably one of the best methods that could be used to incorporate a large cast with different play styles. 3 main stories(with one main character for each) building up to a final story(while also including some other characters to play a few stages as well as the endgame section where you get a quick but hard level with each character.)
I think a story following 2-4 main characters alongside 1-2 other characters in each of their routes is the best method to include as many characters as you can
The Sonic franchise is healing while our world is worsening, a soul for a soul.
A Amy Rose spin off could be interesting with Peach and Zelda getting their own games so why not? It can also bring back some forgotten friends like Cream and Mighty.
Yes finally thank you sonic friends were never the problem idiots were the real problem
I blame certain outlets like the Escapist. I always loved Sonic's friends and they were never the problem, but more like Sega had no idea how to utilize them outside of GBA and DS spin-offs, which is a shame. SA2 and Heroes are my favorite Sonic games and I wished the formula continued.
But it seems after 06, Sega got scared of trying to write deep and impactful stories using Sonic's friends and stuck to low-to-the-ground stories with just Sonic for a while. Then they tried it again with Forces and botched it so hard by trying to play things too safe with the story and characters.
To be fair, they did botch them with both sa2 and heroes as well.
@snakey888 They were done perfectly in SA2. Don't know what you're talking about. Only problem with Heroes was were the lack of Chao and wonky controls at times.
@@Netherwolf6100
Not in terms of gameplay. The other characters were give really boring and tedious gameplay that had nothing to do with Sonic gameplay.
@snakey888 that statement shows you're part of the problem when it comes to misunderstanding the purpose of Sonic's friends in the games.
@@Netherwolf6100
One of the purposes is for them to have fun and engaging gameplay, in line with the series standards. Sa2 failed spectacularly in that regard. If you believe otherwise, then perhaps you are part of the problem.
The problem was never the cast but how they were used in terms of story and gameplay. When they are written well and incoorperated into the game plaay in such a way they are fun they add so much to the series.
If Shadow Gens is a sign of things to come, then I'm froathing at the mouth for Sonic Friends having spinoffs
Get Hardlight out of the mobile division and give them the resources for a full Blaze platformer (Sonic Rush 3 minus the Sonic)
Let Atlus take a crack at a new Sonic RPG taking place in Silver's future
RGG... Yakuza but Knuckles + Chaotix
I’ve personally always wanted to see a dedicated Silver game that uses the inFAMOUS series (those sandbox-style character action-combat-platformer games from the PS3) as inspiration for its gameplay, with an appropriate story, world and aesthetic.
I always did wonder why Sonic got hated for having alot of friends while Mario got a pass
I think in general, a lot of the dumber complaints about the series stemmed from the fact that Sonic 06 released around the time every day people started using UA-cam given the website was roughly a little more than a year old at the time.
SEGA has gotten in their own way for decades now, but this decade plus of this loud minority helped really damaged the franchise. Them and the Sonic bashers/people who thought only the 2D games were good and were inflexible and whatnot didn't go away until rather recently. A lot of these folks thought that having Sonic's friends and multiple playstyles was problematic, but when classic Sonic came back for the 3rd time for Forces, they apparently were fine with it.
Multiplay playstyles is a problem though. And fans of the Mega drive Sonic games were not pleased with Classic Sonic in either Forces or Generations.
@@snakey888 I agree that the way Heroes and Shadow 2005 handled things was wrong, but SEGA took the wrong lessons from that. They needed to do what was suggested in this video.
@@zmr3352
Not just Heroes and Shadow, there was sa1, 2 and 06 as well.
4th snake woke up today and decided to speak nothing but pure raw facts.
Merry Christmas Snake and Snake gang🎄
Dropped this? ---> 👑
Love this. It feeds my autism. Can't wait for an Wasted Potential on the Sonic franchise!
This is something that I’ve been thinking about lately with sonic 3 and shadow generations. I missed shadow, then it made me miss knuckles and it snow balled from there. The characters were there- sometimes. But they always felt behind the background. Barley there. Personally I hope they come back to the forefront. I really enjoyed them in that sonic show on Netflix. Made the world feel more fun imo.
Also Merry Christmas to all who celebrate!! ☺️ and have a wonderful new year
Hell, I'd say Sonic's variety in settings and characters, with a story that took itself (too) seriously is a big part as to why the series is still so popular.
At least I know that's why, as a kid that grew up with the "dark era" games, I loved the world of Sonic much more than Mario's.
7:39 THIS
Thank you
Man i'll never forgive the Normal Boots comunity for what they made us endure to the true Sonic fans for years
Nah, I think you've missed the mark on why Sonic's friends were hated. The main issue has been that a lot of times their gameplay has been so far removed from the series' core gameplay that they're just not fun. Most of the complaints about Sonic friends has been less about them being playable and more about how they play. In a game that's about speeding through levels, it's not very fun to stop that to wander around looking for Emerald shards, trudge through a level on a mech shooting enemies, or walking around to fish. Those styles don't really have the same appeal. That's why removing Sonic's friends and replacing it with the Werehog didn't work, they focused on the wrong aspect of the problem.
That was amazing. All the right points.
This is why i will probably forever prefer the Spinoff titles, almost nobody gets left behind when it comes to playable status!
Personally i really want a Blaze focused mainline game as next to Shadow and Sonic himself she’s my favorite character in the entire franchise
Happy holidays, snake
Couldn't agree more. I'd kill for a game where I can play as the wider Sonic cast these days.
I'd kill to play as Omega and Vector in a good game in the modern age
Amy Rose is my favorite character in the Sonic series. Really happy she's getting better treatment nowadays.
For real. Back in the they, people insisting that Sonic having a recurring cast, while often the same people wanted one off Mario characters to return was kind of insane to me.
Was not expecting you to have a Sonic related video bc all I ever see you to a video for is Mortal Kombat, but I guess that's on me lol
I hated the whole “Sonic’s friends are the problem” I love a full cast of colorful characters and I’m glad the movies are introducing more and more with every sequel
All things considered Sonic's cast is a pretty standard size for a franchise of it's breadth. You have about 5-10 recurring characters and several minor ones that are important to single stories and cameo in subsequent ones. Getting pissed about Sonic's extended cast like getting pissed that a long-running tv show has so many characters and isn't just three people max in a universe otherwise devoid of life.
I guess Sega has to live and learn from their mistakes (it’s in my head I’m sorry)
06 is really THE best usage of Sonics friends, everyone mattered, everyone got a chance to shine.
I honestly hate THOSE Sonic stans (Watchmojo and many others) who complain about really stupid things, I always like what the 06 era did, and I hope we see more.
This is why I think some Sonic fan projects tend to better.
Even sonic friends are part of the franchise in every genesis game introduces at least 1 new character
1 sonic, eggman
2 sonic tails, eggman
Cd sonic, amy, metal sonic
3 sonic, tails, knuckles, eggman
Now Sega wheres our new Sonic Fighting game 😂. Ngl that would likely slap with the number of supporting allies and villains
Well, Virtua fighter is making a return, so a Sonic fighting game based on it is not impossible
I really want them to greenlight a Sonic the Fighters 2 or a Sonic Battle 2.
There was definitely more nuance to the sonic’s friends criticism: imo there is a problem with making EVERY character playable like in the millenium era games because in 3D you need to give them unique abilities and levels built around those abilities. Whereas in the 2D games it was easier to develop multiple playable characters because you didnt need to reinvent the wheel. Knuckles is essentially Sonic with a shorter jump and a glide, because the levels are already vertical you can get some use out of him without having to change things so drastically. Then with Adventure a level like Windy Valley if you played that as Knuckles he’d be able to skip most of it. This is sort of demonstrated by Tails, his style of play turns 2 minute levels into 1 minute levels and 3 minute levels into 2 minute levels not helped by having to cut out sections not suited for his abilities and wouldnt be fun to play in
The solution to this shouldve been, however, to pair down the use of Sonic’s friends instead of treating them like poison. For some reason Sega thought Knuckles would be a step too far to play as, even tho he was interested in the initial wave of Sonicmania and who couldve easily been used in a game like Unleashed’s and wouldve improved that gameplay because the level design is fine but the controls needed something akin to a glide and climb feature instead of being so unforgiving to mistakes. Sega also didnt really listen to the criticism REALLY, in the sense of that the spirit of the talking point shouldve been “focus on making a ton of content for one gameplay style, with alt characters acting as variations on a theme” but instead it was taken as “include alternate play style in which you need to design new levels and mechanics for, just make us play as some alt version of Sonic in them”
nah knuckles gameplay in adventure was fire you got to experience a whole other level when you take it slow and use it as a metal detector playground seeing a whole other part that you just zoomed past as sonic like a new floor in the casino or just the ending part of speedy highway made revisiting the levels you beat an entire different experience
@richardlionerheart1945 i wasnt saying at all that Knuckles’ gameplay was bad in Adventure, just that objectively the levels had to be changed or revamped to accomodate his playstyle because if they made him have the same goals as Sonic he would finish the levels way faster. The gameplay is fine, it’s just that it was a programming challenge to make six different characters work in a way it wasnt in 2D
@@maydaymemer4660
This is a common misconception, that because of the 3d, they somehow needed to make the drastic changes to the other characters' gameplay. A much more simpler and faithful approach that definitely could be implemented is to simply nerf the aspects that could break it otherwise, such as flying or gliding. Something they did in Heroes to the extreme where Knuckles lost his ability to both glide and climb. But there are plenty of other ways to balance that.
All the mobile games and speed simulator inclusions of side characters is indicator enough Sega has noticed they are marketable, people must be buying spins for them. Im sure they'll get their time in the sun soon enough in a mainline game.
8:56 amazing as always Mr snake, even with a non MK related video you definitely out done yourself ❤
Hope you have a wonderful Christmas and New Year Snake ^__^🌲.....And Sonic movie 3 was peak ^__^
well, atleast the IDW has done the side cast of sonic justice from what I have read. Hoping Silver, Blaze, The Chaotix, Cream, Big, and even Marine start getting to do stuff in the future. Also hope that some of the classic characters like Mighty, Ray, Honey, the Hooligans, Tails Doll, Metal Knuckles, ect get modern interpretations.
And Trip
@@danjoshdp6257 course her too.
I don't know what you think you're reading, but the focus has mostly been on the OCs of the comic; Tangle, Whisper, Lanolin, Surge, Kit, etc. Yeah, Sonic and friends are in there, but Tails isn't any better. Cream's been borderline useless and hasn't been present for months because "she's too young to go on adventures." Silver's been getting disrespected by Lanolin, the sheep bi-yotch.
Then you have read wrong. Honestly, that comic feels like it resents being a Sonic story sometimes.
@@mr.unsmiley8656 the Metal Virus arc gave a lot of characters important moments like having them get a chaos emerald back from a member of the deadly six for example, which is better than what the 2010s games did by having them be background decoration at best or straight up non existent.
so real just for that title alone
Goin' from knockin' on NetherRealm Studios' handling of the characters and story of the reboot Mortal Kombat games to doing Sonic content, eh?
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome(?) one.
Shadow the Hedgehog is still one of the best games and I'm happy that you understood the game
6:04 / 6:33 I saw a video from *Kiro Talks* the video he made is call *“The Sonic Friend that deserves better”* He talks mostly about Silver the Hedgehog. He does like the character but Silver had bad reputation for debuting in Sonic 06.
Kiro Talks tries to explain if Silver’s future had change is after the end of Sonic 06. Kiro many explanations and he is not even sure.
I just recently watched a video from *DevieDark,* as they both talk about Silver should get his own game. They talk about how Sonic with sonic movie, and Shadow Generations and the IDW being canon, they both Silver and his future can make many possibilities
Not touching the issue a lot of characters were effectively thought as part of one off stories and not having much to do past their introduction
I’d only say cut his friends because they aren’t utilized narratively or integration into the games. The core weakness to Sonic’s caster is primarily underutilized. They don’t do anything. Tails’ Sonic’s best friend and he isn’t making sweet tech for him. Knuckle’s pretty much lost rival status to Shadow. The weakness is Sonic games are speed runners so they don’t know HOW to integrate the class into the game mechanically or narratively.
Huh... Didnt expect 4th snake making a sonic video but... Welp i like mk and sonic is my fav gaming franchise, so might aswell enjoy!
THANK YOU!!!
The idea of having multiple playable characters wasn't the problem it was the execution. They were either too gimmicky or deviating from Sonic's gameplay (e.g Adventure games) or just had bad gameplay like 06. Nobody complained about multiple characters in the 2D games because they essentially played the same as Sonic with their unique traits.
MERRY SONICMAS!
Orbot wasn't introduced in Colors. He was introduced in Unleashed. Only Cubot was introduced in Colors.
The SW prequels (or more specifically the popular narratives around them) didn't impact the direction of the franchise in nearly the same way that those about the extended Sonic cast did, so I'm not really sure how great of a comparison that was.
Lastly, the recent direction of the franchise's treatment of the extended Sonic cast in recent years is much more significant than you give it credit for. The Final Horizon, Dream Team, Superstars, and Shadow Gens have impressive rosters of alternate characters and play-styles, and try their best to utilize the extended cast in sensible ways beyond gameplay, which has been a massive improvement over where we were just 5-10 years ago.
My favorite character is silver and I’ve come to terms with the fact that he’s never gonna be playable in anything besides the spin-off party games. I’ve even come to terms that he’s not gonna be apart of the sonic movies. Once you give up hope things feel a lot better.
Thank You ! Its the truth
They were never the problem, the different gameplay styles were, like treasure hunting and mech shooting.
Tbf these gameplay styled were loved when Adventure 1 and 2 released and to this day, there's still many people that like them (me included)
@@KperaOfficial
Not really, the other styles were heavily criticised.
The ones who really accepted them was Nintendo kiddies who's first Sonic game was sa2b.
@@snakey888
Found the salty Genesis stan.
@@KperaOfficial Nah, I've seen a lot of hate towards those styles for years. Most of the love towards them seems to be more because of the hype and later nostalgia towards them being the first 3D games. I've seen little praise for them for their own merits.
@@eclipse5708 Then you're not looking hard enough.
I blame this mentality moreso on Sega, the Dreamcast wasn't a particularly successful console, nor was the Gamecube so most people missed out on the Adventure games and their introduction to a lot of the extended cast would've been through the likes of Heroes and '06 which weren't particularly very good so I imagine it was sort of a Pavlov's dog situation where people associated the poor quality of the games with these new characters they didn't know.
Not to say this mentality isn't stupid (because it is) but there's a reason why it formed.
I think '06 definitely handled the extended cast poorly though, half of them don't need to be there and add nothing to the plot with gameplay sections so short you wonder why they even bothered programming them in and in the case of Blaze it blatantly causes continuity errors.
It is amazing that sonic fans saying Sonic friends are the problem ignoring Sonic Mania where Sonic’s friends are playable as him. Including Mighty and Ray. And games before that like Sonic Rivals.
Does anyone played Sonic Superstar? I haven’t pay it myself.
Do you think Trip the Sungazer should join Mighty and Ray to make their own Trio team?
Mighty Power
Ray Flight
Trip Speed.
While Mighty is the leader. You know trying mix things up
Also since Tangle and Whisper, has official debut in Sonic game do you think they form a trio team along with Jewel?