Islamic Esotericism & Western Magical Practice
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- What is Islamic Esotericism, and how does it relate to Western Esotericism?
Thanks to Liana Saif's work, we delve into Islamic esotericism within the broader context of global esoteric traditions, critically assessing the field's traditional focus on Western esotericism. We scrutinize the foundational role of scholars like Mircea Eliade and Henry Corbin in shaping Western-centric esoteric narratives. The episode addresses key questions:
- How has Western-centric scholarship influenced the study of Islamic esotericism?
- What are the challenges and implications of integrating Islamic esoteric traditions into a global esoteric framework?
- How do cultural, religious, and historical factors intersect in the practice of esotericism across societies?
Through the insights of Wouter Hanegraaff and Kennet Granholm, the episode urges a reevaluation of esoteric studies to embrace the richness of traditions that transcend the East-West dichotomy. It raises important issues related to cultural exchange, identity, and the aftermath of colonialism in shaping esoteric practices. The work of Naṣr Ḥāmid Abū Zayd is highlighted, emphasizing philosophical inquiry in the interpretation of sacred texts within Islamic mysticism. This episode invites a reimagined approach to Islamic esotericism that acknowledges its complexity and historical depth, addressing the intricate balance between exoteric and esoteric dimensions of faith and knowledge.
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REFERENCES 📚
Granholm, K. (2013). Locating the West: Problematizing the Western in Western Esotericism and Occultism. In H. Bogden & G. Djurdjevic (Eds.), Occultism in Global Perspectives (pp. 17-36). London: Acumen Publishing.
Hamza, F. (2017). Locating the ‘Esoteric’ in Islamic Studies. In M. Daneshgar & W. A. Saleh (Eds.), Islamic Studies Today: Essays in Honor of Andrew Rippin (pp. 354-366). Leiden: Brill.
Hanegraaff, W. J. (2013). A Guide for the Perplexed. London and New York: Bloomsbury Academic.
Melvin-Koushki, M. (2017). De-orienting the study of Islamicate Occultism. Arabica, 64(3-4), 287-296.
Saif, L. (2019). What is Islamic Esotericism? Correspondences, 7 (1), 1-59.
Sorgenfrei, S. (2018). Hidden or Forbidden, Elected or Rejected: Sufism as ‘Islamic Esotericism’? Islam and Christian-Muslim Relations, 29(2), 145-165.
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00:00 Introduction: Liana Saif's Scholarly Work
02:27 Support Angela's Symposium
03:27 The Globalisation of Esotericism
06:40 The Call for a Reevaluation of the Delineation within Islamic Studies
09:06 The Philosophical Underpinnings of Esotericism in Islam
10:55 Bāṭiniyya - Islamic Esotericism
13:15 Islamic esotericism as a Concept within European Thought
14:27 Islamic Traditionalism in Sunni and Shia Esoteric Thought
15:31 Perennialism Framed in Islamic Esotericism
16:21 Methodology for Studying Esotericism in Islam
17:30 A Look at Mysticism and Sufism
19:40 Four Principles to Understanding Islamic Esotericism
21:02 Islamic Esotericism and Politics
22:40 Western Esotericism Re-influencing Eastern Esotericism
23:15 Support Angela's Symposium
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Fantastic and important content - thanks, Dr. Puca!
Thank you so much for your appreciation, Dr Sledge.
So good to see the Y generations and Millennials take history and religion by the horns and address the global understandings of the various cultures and religions and their divisive and political nature. ❤️
Very nice Angela, this is (partly) what I wrote my BA Thesis on. Please do more in the future on Guénon and Traditionalism. 🔍
Nice work! I am a Muslim but not a religion scholar. I noticed however a common mistake when orientalists write about Islam, they fall into the habit of classification. In Islam and most eastern cultures, the description of any knowledge is always integral and not 0 or 1, like western cultures. Hence, a strong and deep understanding of the Arabic language is essential to understand Islam and its intricacies.
I love René Guénon's works! 😍
Ananda K. Coomaraswamy also deserves to be mentioned in a future video! 😍
Noted!
I am delighted that Dr Saif appears to be reaching the same conclusions as myself (albeit I am more influenced by Javanese rather than Middle East traditions). The translation of Greek esoteric works in the House of Wisdom had a massive impact on Islamic thinking. I believe that whilst these did have a major impact in Medieval Europe, but that nuances were lost. Thus it is no surprise that that there are many similarities and differences between the Islamic and western traditions.
I believe that we overplay the importance of jurisprudence and its impact on the practice of 'sorcery' in Islamic society. Most in the west interpret Islam through a Salafi veneer. In truth Salafis are a small and relatively modern cult (with some historic antecedents), however, much they may claim that they are not. Nevertheless they are however, very vocal and aggressive, demanding our attention. Indeed, the very notion of sorcery is used by Salafis to degrade the mystical and esoteric tradition within Islam. Such redefinition is aimed at marginalising what was (and globally still is) the mainstream within Islam.
The esoteric/exoteric distinction in western minds was absent from the normative Islamic culture, in the sense that through the 10th to the 19th century, "Sufism" (tasawwuf) was a mainstream practice by Sunni.
It was not something in distinction or opposition to mainstream Sunni tradition, it WAS mainstream Sunni tradition.
Something in accordance with and alongside all the obligatory practices and beliefs of Sunnism more broadly. Sufism as a category of its own is a deceptive assumption inherited by both Orientalists and the prevalence of Salafi (reformist) polemical opposition to it.
Throughout most of Islamic history, tasawwuf has been thought of as a technology or knowledge in the same sense that the study of hadith and the study of fiqh (the Sharia) are also technologies and knowledges.
Tasawwuf is a practical form of that knowledge that merely enhances the already present essential core of Islam (Qur'an, Sunnah, five pillars and six pillars et al)
Thanks for sharing
🔎 always fascinating.
This type of neglect is classic of the "western" point of view. White scholars think that everything came from other white scholars. They don't consider that the "renaissance" would have never been possible without the Moors and Arab writers that preserved the ancient books of the Greeks, the Romans, and the Egyptian who were brown until the arrival of the goths. -THE HOUSE OF WISDOM by Jim Al-Khalili. As I read the Sham Al-Mariff, I realized that Agrippa, Dee, Mathers, Crowley, all took information from this book or related Moorish and Jewish books. Yet, they neglect to inform us that those books existed.
Thank you so much for this video, and your interview with Dr. Matthew Melvin-Koushki, as I've been in search of Islamic estorism, and occultism to learn about outta curiosity.
I'm not a Muslim, I find much of my issues with Christianity which I grew up with still apply, but I do very much find Arabic a beautiful a language and appreciate the spiritual insights from Islam. For one the overt rhetoric of "surrender" / "submission", even being a slave to God is more accurate to man's relationship with God than how its normally framed in the west.
Orientalizing the Islamicate world says more about "the west"'s view of itself than it does about the former, thanks for your great work
I don't agree with your opinion but I think it's well written
@pebystroll Regardless I find both have an extremely awkward relationship with the concept of free will, which I personally just don't believe in.
There isn't really much choice in either theology. Do what God says or be damned, all free will is in such a system is an obvious excuse for why this doesn't violate the attribute of God being all Good. Even the most liberal universal forms see you accepting the truth of the faith eventually if just not in this life.
I guess I find there to be a certain imperiousness inherent in the message of both that Islam is a bit more upfront about I'd say.
@@randomchannel-px6ho don't care, I'm sorry :(
🔍 It was very insightfull and interesting lecture
Glad you enjoyed it!
WOW!!! This is so good!
I have been diggin into Persian Magi's work on YT, recently. I would highly recommend my friends doing the same.
Sufis be based, yo! & so is Angela's Symposium. Always impressed with the direction Angela goes. wow! wow! wow!
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Dr Puca, keep up the good work!
Namaste, Dr. Puca- It's been a while..I hope you are well ! You are an inspiration
thank you so much!
I appreciate the respect and objectivity with which you approach the subject of Islamic esotericism - thank you, Dr. Puca!
Very Good information and discussion
Great work
🔎A very necessary and insightful discussion. Thank you for sharing, I learned a lot😊
Glad it was helpful!
Love your channel Dr. Puca 💯...
Thanks for all the fascinating information!!! 😊
So nice of you
Great video! It is so important generally to speak the truth about Islam, but perhaps it has never been more important than now. I hope you continue to make videos on this vital subject.
Great work 🔍
Thanks 🔥
Great work as always!
Thank you so much, Filip!
I really enjoy your channel and how you approach research
Thank you, Dr. Puca.
🔎 thanks again
Islamic philosophy, mainly influenced by Neo-Platonicism & overlapping with Sufism, i.e., Suhrawardi, could also be considered "Esoteric." Also, the Encyclopedic tradition in Islam such as the Abode of Knowlege in Cairo & the Abode of Wisdom in Baghdad were more likely to have had an eclectic approach to learning & thus be more open to including "Esoteric" texts.
Ty❤❤❤❤
Awesome books: „Magic in Islam“ and „Tripping with Allah“ by Michael Muhammad Knight. Soooo good!
🔎Having practiced Isalm through a sufi path for 8 years, your lecture helped me explore questions and reflexions I always had at the time with the help of the typologie/classification criterias (i don't know what are the right words, i'm not a big academic😅). I was part of a morrocan tariqa, with a living cheikh (criteria that was considered essential for the transmission of the sir [secret]). Introductory/open-to-all gatherings were mixed gender, whereas the gathering for folx who wanted to further deepen their envolvment were held separately for men and women.
This brotherhood does not use any instruments to accompany their samaa/liturgic group chanting, though clapping hands is joyfully used. It is commonly reminded to the foqaras and faqirates that batin and sahir (esoteric and exoteric dimensions) could not exist without each other.
There are so much things that i'd like to recall and share here. One big one is that behind the idea and frequent evoquing of the Sir, or Secret, was of course the Mahabba (divine love freely given and available to all) but especifically through the mohammadian "link" or current we could say. The living, legitimate cheikh (master) carries and is thus the depositary of the Sir, he is a sort of unlocker of the chain of transmission from the prophet *pbu to the tariqa (brotherhood), making it a fountain of divine love and actively in service to the world. It was emphasized that although taking the path of the fakir/fakirate (poor, disciplehood) by a living master's side is not necessary to become holy/awaken, it is a huge booster in the work load that that life path represents. Once, a seasoned brother in the path said that our sidi, as we affectionately called the cheikh, took on his shoulders a load of burden off ours so we could travel lighter.
Thank you for sharing?
Grazie Dr Angela Puca, you have encouraged many including myself to get to know Islamic esotericism and understand. what many Islamic people don't wish to know.
Fascinating as always, thanks for making this video. I come from European Jews, I grew up in a fundamentalist southern US household and in my opinion Islam has always been and continues to be the most beautiful of all the abrahamic religions. 🔍
😃 Fascinating! 😃🔍
Wonderful video as always 🔎
I guess it's unsurprising that like so many other religious studies terms, the application of the exoteric/esoteric divide to traditions outside of the European Christian context results in some misfit and inaccurate implications.
Good Evening Dr Puca! Just wanted to say hello. I'm happy you have come this far with your outreach / program! Personally I think it's tremendous! Stay Cool - David, namestw ☝🕋
Thanks for sharing!
I do love how putting this video out the weekend of Dune: Part Two is your version of "playing to the algorithm"
I didn't even know that 😅
🔍Very interesting! You have raised several important points that make the notion of "worldwide esotericism" a problematic concept, I think: what is "hidden" or "inner" in one place may not be those things for the same reasons that it is in another time or culture, and thus we can't easily equate or associate them.
Even with one particular person's work, the way it is received in one period can differ greatly from how it is understood in another: St. John of the Cross went from being imprisoned in his lifetime and having his work and his order critiqued and persecuted (and thus, in his own time, esoteric and even occult by Hanegraaf's formulation), and now he's a Doctor of the Church and the idea of the "Dark Night of the Soul" is commonplace (even though horrifically misunderstood more often than not) and a mainstay of discussions of mysticism in Catholic circles, as one example out of many possible.
Thank you for yet another great and fascinating video angela, you and your colleges in the study of western esotericism and the occult is a gift to humanity ❤
My pleasure!
It is not fair to label anything that conflicts with what Muhammad was inspired with or which was revealed to him.
Sufism would have to be be that linked in parts to Islam, but it is difficult to distinguish what is from tawasuf without knowing Islam.
Islam gives way to very detailed techniques of experience and interpretations without a separate hermetic side.
Fundamentalist forms of Islam all acknowledge dreams and other direct experiences of faith, psychological work, translating culture and language towards an Islamic expression, and different layers of meaning.
🔍 Interesting stuff. Thank you Dr. Angela!
My pleasure!
🔍Amazing Dr Puca!Fascinating breakdown of the scholarship, thanks. One area of Muslim esotericism I would really like to see some more information about is folk magic practices from the Islamic world. Ever since my Turkish mate told me his mum practices divination by dropping molten lead into a saucepan, I realised there are whole worlds of magic out there we know so little about. In modern western magic traditions molybdomancy is very rare.
The curated transcript for this video was sent to the members of the Inner Symposium and now is available for all Symposiasts. 🔍 www.innersymposium.study/?p=5764🔎
woot woot Perennialism baby lol...such a great video. Things are going to keep getting more interesting as scholarship from east and west continue to meet. I am so here for it!
Yes! Thank you!
Rock on! Stoked for your Magus Lecture and hang this month. I know i've said it before but Ill say it again, shoulda joined your patreon years ago! It's great people, get on it. @@drangelapuca
🔎 I love Guenon's Symbolism of the Cross, one of my favourite books 🔍
Thank you 🔍 what are some reading recommendations for viewers interested in comparing Islamic vs western esotericism?
Start with papers from Liana Saif; she writes well on fascinating topics
uva.academia.edu/LianaSaif
You should speak at K. LaVey's parties over here!
Lexcellent exposé 🔎
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🔎 good shit ☪️
Next do Javanese Esotericosm.
The East vs West dichotomy has been so harmful to our elucidation of our shared system of reality. Our minds are all connected through the same systems but because belief and culture are part of those systems we're incapable of finding common ground on many comparable, or often totally similar but slightly different-flavoured, things. The complex interplay of systems of power over centuries hasn't helped. It may be that this knowledge isn't suitable for the uninitiated but the nature of our culture means that everyone can be initiated and also everyone is exposed to a lot of the ontological risks that they must be protected against, even if they're not looking for them.
This was a very informative video. Thanks.My old laptop doesn't do emojis anymore for some reason, so... MAGNIFYING GLASS.
Esoteric knowledge has largely been ignored in the West. In Henry Corbin's book : Swedenborg and Esoteric Islam, Swedenborg Foundation, 1995, a comparison is made between the Western esoteric theologian Emanuel Swedenborg and Ibn Arabi.
10Q for the new book 🔎
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I don't have that emoji. Last time either.
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Did you listen to Zakir Naik ,Shaykh Imran H and Hamza Yousaf
🕌🕋☪️ Dr Angela Puca, here are some emojis I have available to represent Islamic esotericism, shukran,grazie.
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This is an interesting topic, but for me I have so much about Islam crammed in my head, I don't know what is what, so this is a little over my head.😅 🔍
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🔎🔍Dr Angela Puca, here are two magnify glasses as signs of an enlarged appreciation of .your talk.
I’ve always been interested in islam but not the way it is now
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There is no such thing as "Islamic esotericism". The two are not compatible in the basic tenants of Islamic Aqidah. There was a sect that emerged in the 10th century that adopted Neoplatonism, Persian and Hindu philosophy in Basra (what is known as current Iraq) and their beliefs spread but were always challenged by Muslim theologians. Let's be clear: Wahdat Al Wujud has no place in Islam as it contradicts the basic understanding of Tawhid. The claim that Wahdat Al Wujud consistute an integral part of Islamic thoughts is deceptive and problematic.
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