The Kayak Fishing Industry Sucks A$$
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
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The new kayaks, if you can call them that, have been released at this year's 2024 ICAST. Needless to say I have some strong opinions about the directions the industry continues to move in. Here are my thoughts on the changing landscape of the kayak fishing industry.
I sold my pedal drive kayak and got a used 1436 Jon for $500.
Got her set up with a 9.8 outboard I overhauled, new trolling motor/battery, and super comfy B100 seats. All for around $2000 to $2500 total. I can bring my two kids and all my gear and cruise along at 21mph still.
Can push-pole or paddle on the flats as well since it is so skinny and light. The hull is 135 lbs.
Now, I just bought $1k worth of aluminum ti deck it out and set it up like a bass boat. She is the perfect boat. Thought it would miss the kayak but I don’t.
Long story short… different tools for different jobs.
100%
Tell us how you really feel 😂😂. I’m a bass angler with a 120PDL. I love my kayak and totally agree that the market is getting ridiculous. The manufacturers really need to come back to reality.
isnt the PDL 120 almost 120lbs itself? and 3K?
@@Thegreatkayak with the seat an drive installed it is. It’s 90lbs with just the hull. I don’t have any trouble loading it in and out of my truck without the seat and drive. Yes it’s $2,750.
A lot of it has to do with hull shape, my knarr is heavy at 150-160 but even with paddle it moves decently and cruises with the drive but some of these I can't imagine they would even be fast with a motor
We did this😂
Too many anglers are like these yaks...big wide slow soft.. That's why they sell.
100% agree with the cost of kayaks is ridiculous.
That being said, i bought a used feelfree lure 13.5 for 600, with a fish finder/chartplotter, rod holders, pedal drive, paddle, adjustable seat, troll motor with battery, and oversized rudder. So while the new market is getting ridiculous, the used market is still fair if you are patient enough to search for a good deal. yes its over 100 pounds, so im not strapping it to the top of a car. But i throw it in the back of my truck. Super stable, i can still row with it. It has pedal drive, but i put a 30 pound thrust trolling motor in the pedal port. Have foot pedals for steering so i can keep my hands free for fishing. Added a pulse mod for the motor that i control at my side for forward and reverse/speed. I like the mobility in the water, and i have plenty of storage space. Ill river and lake fish here in the pnw. Kuddos to you for paddling, but we aren't in the same league 😂, I'm def not all star material.
I'm definitely going to be strapping a lure 11.5 to the top of my car 😅
This hits home. Def in agreement Tyler.
Northeast fisherman here. How the game has changed since I started back in 2010 in my OK Prowler 13.
Yak-fishing hadn’t boomed yet. Seeing another person fishing on a kayak was a rare sight. Now, some areas I had all alone many yrs ago look like time square on the water.
Fast fwd a few yrs & I jump into a Revo. Wow, I thought. It’s like a prowler with a pedal drive. Used that Revo for 5 yrs & the hull began to take in water. I quickly jumped into a newer Revo with the 180 drive & have been enjoying it since. Yes Its stupid it doesn’t come with gear tracks or equipped with the sailing rudder or even turbo fins. But it’s such a blast on the water and effortless to move.
It’s a special hull & it’s a shame Hobie will be discontinuing it.
Though I am glad we have the Salty as an option. I’ve had some time in that boat too and I quickly realized - Aside from the pdl drive, it doesnt feel like your typical Old Town (pedal hull). Well that’s because it’s not. It’s really an Ocean Kayak. It’s relatively light, lively, fast, maneuverable. *Old Town, if you’re listening - factory equipped rubber side pockets like Hobie would be ideal. Something low-profile to save that nice deck space. A small front hatch, maybe 6-8” wouldnt hurt. And lastly, do something about that annoying offset handle in the stern. Maybe mold another handle?? Otherwise, what a winner of a pedal-kayak.
With all that said, the only barge I would consider would be the Autopilot. For 1 reason, spot lock. Not even a fan of the hull or the deck layout. It weighs a ton off the water. But being able to anchor with the press of a button & stay in position in wind & current, is gold for some of the fishing I do. The advantages of that one feature is tremendous. Could mean the difference in going home with a limit & being much less fatigued for house chores or hanging out with the fam for the remainder of the day. And for that, I can appreciate the technology, despite its other shortcomings, particularly it’s weight/size.
This reminds me, I’ve gotta go rewatch that sturgeon upload you did with Ryan at OT & the other folks. I remember you had them all tie up to anchor. That was a cool vid.
I actually ditched my outback for the 45lb Lynx which handles the same inshore fishing environment my outback did. What this did was to make my trip experience a lot better mentally and physically not having to deal with so much gear and weight. I've still motorized the lynx :)
this is why as soon as i wanted to access waters that needed a motor, i got a boat instead of a powered kayak.
Not the same!
Same here. After buying a boat, my kayak needs changed. I still love fishing off a kayak, but I now want to trade my pedal kayak for something simpler, lighter and paddle only.
I agree, but I think pedal drives are here to stay. I just don't know how I would be able to troll, or land a fish while fumbling with a paddle.
The new products are "boats" tho. Often labeled as kayak killers. They're basically 1-2 person plastic Jon boats/skiffs that you can load in a truck bed. To your point, I'd just get a traditional motorboat at that point
Nothing wrong with motorizing your kayak, perhaps people sometimes want to save the energy to fish getting to the fishing spot especially over high current waters.
It is getting ridiculous, no doubt bout it.kyaks got popular because they where light, easy for solo kayaker or fishermen. Now u got 8,000 $ kayaks. Live scope mounted on front, 2.5 horsepower motor on back. Crazy. Just give me a light kayak a rod n reel, paddle, life jacket, and a metal coffee can filled with concrete with eyebolt for anchor, I'll see you in bout 10 hours.
Bought my first kayak last year and went cheaper route with a good seat and easy to paddle kayak. I also rooftop so I could not go heavy. It has served me well and it's simple. If I end up getting a full sized truck, I'll look at a pedal kayak but have honestly considered just getting a better equipped paddle 12ft yak and leaving it at that.
I love fishing for ditch pickles in my $600 dollar mystery brand 10' kayak. Its light and easy to portage. I use an old hiking pole to shallow anchor and a rock tied to a rope for deeper water. I'm a simple guy who also hates the way newer kayaks are super wide and heavy. Some people go so crazy with stuff on their kayaks they can't even drag them over a small portage. Also i've never been interested in a $4000+ dollar piece of plastic.
Yeah, it kind of defeats the purpose--they might as well just buy a boat!
600 is still a dumb amount for a small plastic boat. I can’t even justify 250 for one.
I feel you. I grew up with canoes and bought an OceanKayak Scupper Pro TW in the late 90s for inshore fishing in FL. Back then you had to cut holes in the hull for rod holders yourself. It was hand-carryable and fast through the water. I've had my eye on pedal kayaks for years but they're just getting more and more expensive, and heavier and heavier. For the money they want today I can outfit a 16 ft used jonboat. They're so heavy that the ability to slip one in without a launch point is lost. I'm better off with a solo canoe. Just extremely disappointing all around. You're dead-on.
Hobie makes the Lynx, Passport, and Compass for when you want a pedal drive kayak that you can carry down to the bank by the water. I think the Passport kayaks are cheap-ish for that they have (rudder, seat, drive). I was stunned helping lift a heavy (loaded with gear) fishing kayak out of the surf at Navarre beach. 200lbs?
@@TheZX11 I sold all my kayaks and went to a gheenoe back in the early 2000s and never looked back . I can fish it the same as a yak paddle it the same and a 9.9 outboard gets me to my fishing spots fast
@@jimdouglas4387 Nice set up. I've seen those on UA-cam. That along with the Solo skiff and Bote's Rover. Whatever fits the needs best. Plenty of boat/kayak options these days.
@@TheZX11 lol too many
Same thing has happened to all fishing boats. Had no idea the Kayak market went that direction too. It's sad..
Stay safe
If you have to trailer it it becomes a boat.
Unless its a kayak.
Not necessarily. Some of us with bad knees and backs find a trailer a lot more doable.
@@mjc6131 I understand some may have the need to trailer their kayak due to knee or back issues. My comment was about the size of of some of these new "kayaks".
@@kjfishman547 exactly !!!! Spot on
I'm a disabled vet. I catfish and have ss 127. Yes, I'm able to put kayak in the back of my truck with great struggle cause trucks getting taller. However, it is difficult physically. So, I will use my trailer to haul my kayak around.
I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing this trend. The kayak fishing world isn't the only place, seems to be a corporate strategy in every market.
I personally have a perception outlaw 11.5. (80lbs) Yes I put a small motor on it to accommodate my fishing in the Columbia and to compensate for my bad shoulders but it is still completely paddleable. Base price is about $900. I love it! It fits my needs perfectly.
Someone is salty
Really... This is one unhappy dude.
I mean I'm not salty and I agree with the guy. As an ocean kayak fisherman it can be really frustrating when every new innovation or every new release is targeted towards these 10 thousand dollar barge setups with a cars worth of electronics in them. I have an outback and I'm happy with them, and it's no skin off my back to stick with my one graph and what I got, but it feels like the market is hyper focused on one, extremely expensive direction just like bass boats are.
@@Dan-yh4uz don’t forget the tournament anglers who are getting screwed or pressured to go this route which is very unfortunate and unsustainable
No that thing is dumb
The hotdog at Costco has not gone up in price. Woot woot
Yeah but the quality has gone down
and they shrunk the bun!
Ditch pickles? That’s a good one Im going to use that one
It's been around for years
I'm taking Jesus juice 😂
I think a plastic Jon boat won't sell. So they use a trendier category like "fishing kayak". Oddly, my neighbor while trying my paddle boards and kayaks said he liked his "kayak" just fine. His "kayak" is a small aluminum Jon boat complete with 9hp gas motor, trailer, and bench seats (with old style floating cushions). Several times he has mentioned his kayak. I think he thinks that is what it is.
Ha ha an Aluminum boat that identifies as a kayak.
I am a dirty, ditch pickle kakak angler, among other thing. I do own a too big, too expensive hobie with a fish finder and 1 screen. I also have 2 smaller, much cheaper kayaks that I use for non fishing activities or just smaller water fishing. I would have a real boat if I had the space to store it, but I dont.
That said, I am 100% anti motors on kayaks. I quit going to tournaments when motors took over. The bass tournaments are the driving force in the industry and are kinda ruining it. But thats where the sponsor money is, and where the deep pockets are. Thats the whole reason the tournaments started allowing motors for non disabled anglers, sponsor $$$. If you have to trailer your kayak to get it in and out of the water... It's not a kayak anymore. You should have bought a john boat and decked that out instead.
I thought about Vibe for my step up from a Pelican sit in kayak. But their customer service reviews were so horrible that I scrapped that idea. Even the local shop that was selling them dropped them as they were waiting a year to get replacements on faulty drives. I went Bonifide and I am happy.
If you want a relatively small and very traditional kayak for fishing that doesn't stretch the definition of the word kayak, there's nothing that says you can't buy a sit-in whitewater kayak and use it for fishing. The kayak I use for fishing is an old, discontinued, sit-in, whitewater kayak (a Perception Stikine). It works fine for me. I think the length is 9'6". My cruising speed is a little under 4 mph. To me, the ease of storage, ease of carrying it, ease of transporting it on a roof rack, and maneuverability more than make up for the slow top end speed. I bring one fishing rod and just a little bit of tackle. That's enough fishing gear for me to catch fish with.
A dedicated video to your top kayak picks in today’s market would be great. Both new and used.
Perhaps categories like
1. Salmon specific
2. Multi use
3. Budget
4. Luxury
And/or any categories you might find best fit your audience.
Keep up the good work!
Im with you on the "Fishing Kayaks" that weigh so much you have to have a trailer to move it and cost as much as a 15ft welded Modified Jon Boat with a 40hp Mercury! I got into Yak fishing to have a lightweight portable option, that was significantly cheaper than a Power Boat, didnt require annual Registration and Inspection, that would allow me access to fishing areas a boat cant get to. Once you put a motor on it, its a boat, not a Yak...
A friend and i got into kayak fishing 3 years ago. We each bought a cheap lifetime tandom kayak. Then modified them to fish out of with rod holders and actual seats. They have worked well. Ut i am looking to upgrade but I am just not willing to spend the money for a peddls drive.
My father has had bass boats since the 70s, and I've fiahed on them since the 80s. They are nice but they are lots of money and can be expensive to maintain as well.
You're a riot. Practically blunt constructive criticism. I'm sure there are going to be alot of non- paddle-able used boat on market place and people are just going to buy bass boats.
Bass fisherman are always going to be the primary target, sadly. As crazy as salmon/steelhead/saltwater anglers can be about gear, they got NOTHING on bass fisherman, both in numbers and dollars spent. NEED a $100k boat, 100 rods, $15k in electronics....all to catch something a 5 year old with a worm and bobber can catch just as easily. I've recently seen a few videos of people with electronics suites on kayaks that would put a Gen 4 fighter jet to shame.
Bass use to be considered a trash fish
Ha,ha! I'm one those bass fishermen the industry has been so successful in "catching." I have a couple dozen rods, nearly as many reels, and tubs full of unopened artificial baits. I don't even tournament fish! My personal best? That would be a nine pound largemouth caught in my cousins farm pond with a crusty, old Zebco 33 outfit, with a chewed up purple worm, that I dug out of the farm smokehouse.
@@IncogNito-gg6uhlol my pb also came from a little old mill pond in a cemetery. I swear those little ponds have bigger bass than most of the big lakes.
Show me a kayak with targeting pods and helmet mounted display tracking so I can see where all the fish are with a box around them displaying distance, depth, and species and I’d strongly consider paying $15k for it 😂
@BAZaTAZ well the tech isnt quite there yet, but I've seen guys at a lake near me with 15k in electronics on a kayak not counting the 3k+ GPS trolling motor and probably 2k in batteries to feed it all.
Crescent Kayaks is out there producing lightweight options that actually paddle well and handle great in rivers. The Shoalie Kayak renewed my interest in kayak fishing.
I went with a Aquaglide Blackfoot 130 because its portable, stable, lightweight but can carry 600lbs. it's paddle only, but it's easy to car top and with my railblaza cart I can launch from anywhere. No idea why someone would want a 150+lb kayak that you need to traiiler or do special movements to slide it in and out of the bed of a truck. I have mine setup for a motor for the winter when I'm doing more trolling.
I considered the Blackfoot but ended up going with the Sea Eagle 385fta based on the inflatable keel. I really like it and also have a trolling motor for when I’m doing a lot of trolling.
Finally some real no-nonsense advice on what's going on with the kayak industry. I owned a retail sporting goods store from 2012-2018 and sold Natives. This was in northern Minnesota and I was one of the first shops offering them. The idea of a peddle drive yak make perfect sense but they were a tough sell for some reason. I sold a few Manta Rays and YES they were the lightest of the group. They handled more like a canoe though. Anyways,, nice to see some NO BS reviews. Thanks.
I like my sportsman 120, but I can totally see the allure of the Salty. When I'm actually fishing, the sportsman is just fine, and I love the stability. But when I have to cover distance, it's pretty inefficient, and something like the salty would be nice. I put my sportsman in the back of a pickup, so the weight really isn't a problem, but it does take two people to get it on top of the truck when we tow the RV. For fishing, I consider a peddle drive essential, and honestly I am not sure I could manage trolling for kokanee without a peddle drive. Things are chaotic enough trying to manage 2-poles, a net, and a crazy fish. I don't have enough hands to manage a paddle on top of all that.
I guess we all have our tolerable brands. My 2 choices came down to Wilderness Radar 115 or the Old Town Sportsman PDL 120. I sort of like the front enclosed hatches on the bows. The Radar 115 seems to be a little small. It needs the same size as the Radar 135, or like the PDL120. The choice really came down to the drive ports. The Radars are more flexible. 2 ports down through hull for fish finders, e-drives, or peddle. Or all of the above at the same time. I didn't like how the PDL 120 peddle port was flush to the floor. Every time you pull the PDL drive up. Water can flush up through the hole. Also, if you have anything on your floorboard. It can roll off down through the drive hole. Probably gone for good.
The real deciding factor was. I can buy the WS Radar 115 or the 135 without any drives or rudder system. For sure those drives are way overpriced. According to dealer, Old Town PDL 120 is not available without drive or rudder. A peddle drive might be something I add later, so I want the down ports. Might just go straight toward a Minn Kota stern drive. Put it down through the peddle drive port. E-drives gives the option of more consistent trolling speeds. If I really need to get more serious. I can just take my bass boat out. Just a lot of boat for one person at times.
Although I have one lake that e-drives are not allowed. But I guess peddle drives are for now. So, choice is Radar 115. Plenty of space for camping and plenty of gear. Wouldn't need any bigger kayak than that. Suppose to be one of the faster kayaks on the market. Seat is claimed by many to be the most comfortable. Radar also has a very nice seat mounting system. (Solid)! Better than most I have seen. Hobie isn't even on the list. Price is way over reality. Mirage drive is a cool idea. But it's really overpriced, and reverse is a pain. Just lots of moving parts to go wrong. All other drives that I know. All have instant reverse by just peddling it backwards. Much easier when hands are busy with fishing pole.
You may call the Chinese kayaks junk, but I’d disagree haha. I have two kayaks from vicking kayaks that I imported directly from China. They have been awesome, both pedal drive. The bigger one has the option to be motorized which I prefer for large lakes. And I paid just $1k USD per kayak. Especially being Canadian it’s hard to justify spending thousands on one kayak when I get into a smaller aluminum boat…
It all depends on your location, it can be much more expensive depending on your local market or if you have a dealer close enough to be able to get stuff ordered, at least from what I've seen it's a bit easier to order a kayak than a aluminum hull
@@imperialwhovian3461 unless you live hours away from a town. Plenty of used aluminum stuff too
The whole point of kayak angling in the first place was an inexpensive alternative to the craziness of boat angling. Now it's just insane. I got my Ocean Kayak 13' on sale at West Marine for $400.00 Bare bones but solid.
You are getting really funny in your old age. Ditch pickles and Jesus juice are good ones. Thanks a bunch for your review.
Let's start a kayak company that innovates with a solid pedal drive yak which is LESS THAN 80 lbs and still paddles well. All these companies keep focusing on one target audience... Tournament guys. That is fine, but there are tons of people that want to just fish in a kayak and don't need 150 lbs of gear, motors, and batteries.
My first impression of the xtr130 was the same as yours. I also don't currently compete in tournaments. However, i think it's more ludacris to spend 100-200k on a bass boat just to be a "real" professional. I'd rather spend 5k on a plastic toy boat and pretend to be a pro. Which conveniently is exactly what I've spent on my Bonafide RVR119. I now have a fully rigged and motorized fishing platform that can also be quickly de-rigged and paddled in class 3 whitewater. I also car top it. I personally am interested in the xtr130 because it looks like an amazing camping platform. My rvr struggles to haul even a minimalist campsite. But i do agree, it shouldn't be called a kayak. It's a watercraft.
The XTR130 looks badass! Its only 2800 bucks too which i feel is reaso able.
@@InebriHATED How is $2800 reasonable for a plastic hull, some geartrack and seat? The margin on that thing must be insane.
I don’t get the hate on the bass tournament guys . Almost none of us believe we are professionals and we are all just having fun because we enjoy the competition
@@miclam00 I work at a store that sells Old Town kayaks, and I know that we make well over $1,100.00 on every Old Town kayak that we sell.
Pretty insane!
Definitely wish Crescent got a nod, an emphasis on paddling performance and clean, streamlined design at still accessible price points
Sure but not really innovating in any way. Just holding onto what once was.
Exactly. The shoalie was a decent lil change up for them. Everything else is just blah.
Totally agree with you. Im disappointed how the kayak industry is catering to bass fishing. Although it does make sense since the tournament part of that culture is what i define as "maximalism". They just buy & spend more. When i lived in the SF Bay area, i never could pull the trigger on a saltwater kayak because i felt the engineering wasn't quite evolved enough for ocean fishing. I live in Colorado now and use the Hobie Lynx for lakes. I like how light/portable/quick it is.
Love the honesty. Bravo! Write this up as an opinion piece for kayak angler.
I think many people on the West coast echo your frustrations. Never going to sell my Rev16. Rev13 and 16 with molded in gear tracks would have been outstanding for the Pacific coast.
Kayak Angler Magazine has sold out to all these giant plastic boat brands. They will never be openly critical. All they publish now is fluff.
The problem is PNW people think they are special. The vast majority of the US could give a rip about salmon or steelhead. No one really buys heavy gauge aluminum boats besides PNW people because it’s just so dang rough here. Worse yet, it’s transplants that seem to have the worst attitudes.
I don't think it's only a PNW situation or for that matter a salmon/steelhead thing. Pacific coast, Atlantic coast, Costa Rica, NZ, etc., it's not PNW specific. If someone can't efficiently paddle the kayak when the drive system goes down or right it easily when it flips, it's not a safe platform for most offshore fishing.
I guess you've never heard of the Great Lakes. They give quite a rip about salmon and steelhead.
I see a kayak company in your future. Spilt Milt Kayak Co.
kayaks are not fun to fly fish on but I do. All I need is a row boat. My Jackson cuda 14' weighs 75 lbs. and snags fly line like nobody's business.
Crescent Kayaks has a lot of nice paddle kayaks that fit the mold for the average person that don't have an unlimited budget. To me Crescent gets it and has plenty of great priced all around kayaks for fishing and just for recreation. To me they're the best bang kayaks for the money made here in the US.
The ironic thing is by his own logic his kayak is one of these barges. No peddle kayak is designed to be paddled. 5 minutes in any Crescent model would prove that point.
a big hell yeah for the .99 cent Arizona iced tea !!!!!
I bought a 10.5” Hobie Passport-R and LOVE IT. I can easily carry it and it fits inside my Suburban. I prefer the Passport over the Outback. One person can carry it. I can’t do that with the Outback and the Outback is less stable to stand in. The Passport is so easy to paddle or pedal. I felt the Old Town 10.6 sportsman felt like always pedaling up hill. The Hobie rotomolded boats are a marvelous and affordable boat, far easier to pedal than any other pedal drive.
I agree with you 100% on this. These are no longer kayaks at this point. To market them as such is just disingenuous. That said, I ordered my salty and am really looking forward to putting it through it's paces in the coming months! I do remember a time when this was a much more affordable sport than it is now. I keep hoping for an announcement of a lighter, more nimble kayak, with a reasonable price point, but it is just trending the other way.
Or, or.... terminology(sub-category) has not caught up with the evolution of the market. I have a Hobie Outback. Love it!! But, you can only cover so much water without a motor. Larger lakes, inshore saltwater (I live in the Chesapeake Bay area) not practical with paddle/pedal setup. Not familiar with your channel, but curious about your vitriol/snobbery towards bass fisherman. Also, these "behemoth barges" are still entry-level priced compared to even the smaller, lower end bass boats. Again, I have to remind myself of your prejudice against us lowly, hillbilly bass anglers. Have fun tying flies. 😂
I love bass fishing. Do it all the time. Grew up bass fishing. Even competed in local live and online tournaments where I consistently placed in 1st or 2nd place. Of course I did this all in my Salty 120 PDL or Hobie Revo I didn't need a $5000, 200 lb kayak setup to be competitive.
I agree. Wilderness Systems replaced my Commander with a "fishing kayak" when the hull cracked. It was the only one they offered that had the weight capacity I need.
Heavy and slow. Hard to load on my car by myself because it's awkward to pick up. Hard to carry to the water. Making me think about getting an inflatable kayak.
Well, you definitely aren’t wrong! Here on the east coast, where I’m primarily a river kayaker that fishes for mostly other than largemouths (smallies, stripers, walleyes, etc), motors and pedal drives would get destroyed pretty quick on the rocks. The big barges are undesirable. I’m a huge Crescent fan and find their Light Tackle II to be ideal for my needs.
The bass-turdization of the industry. Love that line. My first kayak was an Ocean Kayak Trident 15, but I wanted pedal drive. Now, my wife and I have Hobie PA 12s (which we love), but even those are beasts to me. Trailer and boat ramp are necessary. We used to fish together from an 18’ aluminum canoe with an electric trolling motor, which was great in trout lakes, but I wouldn’t take it into a river for salmon combat fishing. I completely agree that it’s crazy calling these plastic barges you see today “kayaks.” They’re just stupid. Might as well buy an aluminum Jon boat.
Nice rant! Thanks for the video.
Just picked up a Brooklyn 10.5 pro (PK11), has a 420lbs weight capacity and only cost $1300 new, really stable as well. A lot of these kayak companies are getting complaints of stability and weight limit issues, the way I see it, I would buy a 12-14 foot jon boat before I buy an oversized/overpriced plastic kayak/ boat thingy.
But you have to get a motor for that john boat, at least a pedal drive kayak can be used by itself, electric motors are gonna run you at least 1500+ and motors are about the same price so by the time you get the hull and motor it's the same price or more
I totally agree with everything you said. The problem is in the bass tournament industry we don't have a "definition" of what a kayak is. If the main leagues got together and put some logical limits in place to sort of firm up the definitional line between Boat and Kayak then this insanity could be curbed. Hey if you want to but a 200 pound lump of plastic and put 2 motors on it and 500 pounds of soft plastic lures knock you self out what do I care but lets please stop calling them kayaks and lets stop calling the competitions kayak tournaments. Sure they are personal water craft but so are jet ski's why can't I use a jet ski in a tournament?
Im in michigan and I have a great 10.5 perception that is super light and does great for all my small lake fishing adventures. Ive been wanting a second kayak for trolling/jigging for salmon, trout, and walleye in the great lakes/river mouths. I looked at everything out there and the Salty looked like the best choice for my context. Found your videos during that search and your rigging and fishing style sealed it for me. The 2024 Salty is $2600 now. Used ones here are few and between around here and ive yet to see one under $1800. Decided to go with the Ocean Kayak Trident, and ended up getting a 14' trident ultra for $500. Excited to chase some kings/coho starting in about a month. Not sure if the salty is in my future or not now. If I love it i may just add an easily removable bixpy/newport just for trolling so i can controll my fish/other lines a bit when im hooked up. I really dont like this new plastic bass boat trend for all the reasons youve mentioned
I started with bigger kayaks and now went down to the Passport 12.0. I added some hatches a bigger rudder, and it is an awesome platform for the inshore flats and backlakes.
Very surprised Crescent Kayaks wasn't mentioned. My LiteTackle and my wife's UltraLite are amazing with tracking, speed, ease of paddling, stability and plenty of inside area. I have no need for a motor in my Crescent. 👍🏻
I prefer pedal drive kayaks. Larger muscle group and hands free advantage
At some point you are right... when they have a 37 foot kayak with 3 outboard 150HP engines on it do you still call it a kayak.
I thought sarcasm was a lost art form. Thank you for keeping it alive.
I been fishing a revo13 offshore here in Hawaii for years catching pelagics and agree its such a great yak. Sad to see them stop production. My drive broke last trip out and I just paddled all day just fine. Cant do that with any of these plastic barges they selling nowdays
I used the “ditch pickle” term in a bass fishing group once holy trigger word! 😂😂😂
I have really liked your Old Town pedal model, so efficient and small.
Really disappointing about the Revo. It's my favorite Hobie. It's great with the drive and a great boat to paddle.
I have been watching some videos from iCast with these crazy huge "kayaks."
Hopefully the kayak tournaments will stick to human propulsion. That makes these heavy monsters useless for tournaments.
I had a relatively inexpensive Lifetime Sport Fisher for over 5 years. That was my first boat of any sort. This year I saved and upgraded to an Old Town Sportsman PDL 10. I almost got the 12 foot and am glad I didn't. The 10 foot is the limit of heavy for me. I like putting mine in the truck bed. It's manageable empty. I just unload everything to move it.
If I wanted to deal with a trailer, I would just buy a boat. Maybe I will someday, but as a person approaching senior citizen status, I now own the limit of what I can handle.
I would never spend that much for plastic.
i fish light with a hobie lynx which i got for a good price used. very easy to take on and off car, very light and nimble. i fish saltwater river flats, don't need electronics. my big concern with these huge boats is transport on and off the water. a trailer is now a must on these behemoths but getting it to the water other than a boat ramp would seem to be difficult and also require another few hundred dollars in a boondox. just getting out and getting exercise, whether it be paddling or peddling is also a big factor for me. obviously lose that with these boats, kind of sad.
I am with you. I'm tired of the "just get a trailer", "just buy a truck", "just get landing gear" crowd. Why do I have to spend tens of thousands of dollars just to transport a piece of plastic. The whole point of kayaks is transportability and not having to use a boat ramp.
@@spiltmilt what's funny is that i sometimes get sucked into that whole big kayak/boat idea for more comfort, fishfinders, motors, blah blah, whatever and then i remember about how great it is to just get out in the water to have fun. i actually have a trailer with a pa 14 and find that its so much better to just throw a kayak on top of the car and go. at the end of day for me its just going out and enjoying the adventure. if you want a boat, find a used 13 foot carolina skiff for 5000 with a 25 hp on it...that's what these new kayaks are competing against. i just got the lynx just a couple months ago and it has completely replaced the pa 14 for me.
These new yaks are designed for bass tournament anglers that will pay and do anything for an edge. If it has to be trailered it not a kayak. Great video
Check out Saturn inflatables. They make an inflatable pedal drive that I can’t wait for them to get back in stock. It’s perfect for packing in the jeep and hitting high mountain lakes. It’s not for everyone and won’t perform like a hardbody, but there is a need for portability.
Ive seen it. It does look interesting.
Yeah.
My sister has 1 of those.
It's nice, but there's no rudder, and the floor seams have already gone bad, so it leaks.
And it's only 2 years old!
Bahaha. Everytime you post a kayak industry video I say “here we go” before clicking. 😅 I don’t think there will ever be a westcoast specific kayak brought to market. Time to get hands on. Pack canoe with float bags with an add on h2proped drive, or finding a classic surf launchable ocean kayak style that can be retrofitted with the h2proped. All I know is. The NA kayak industry does not fit us. Loved the rant, I laff’d.
I have an Eddyline paddle kayak and love it. I wish Eddyline would make a pedal drive kayak. The company seems pretty good and would probably put out a good product.
I picked up an ascend 133x tournament kayak almost 3 years ago. Had I done a little more research, I would've got an oldtown pdl. Although, the 133x is 13', 36" wide and weighs 125 lbs, it can still be propelled by paddle. But, I should've gone the pdl route.
me too! looking to get rid of mine, id rather use my cheap lifetime fishing kayak from Walmart.
@cdro670 I'm in the process of trading mine for a 17' aluminum boat. More family friendly.
100% agree with the dislike of all these gargantuan fake plastic bass boats. I would really like a good versatile, efficient, and affordable pedal kayak to add to my fleet, but like you pointed out the choices are limited for versatile and efficient, and even fewer are what I consider affordable. If it needs a trailer it is a boat. If it can't be easily car-topped; I'm not interested in it as a kayak. I have a couple older paddle kayaks that I bought cheap/used that fulfill my needs for occasionally chasing ditch pickles for fun and bringing along on RV camping trips. Instead of spending insane money on a new pedal/motorized kayak, I chose to spend LESS and restored an old fiberglass boat into a salmon/kokanee/walleye fishing machine, and it is small and light enough that it is just as easily trailered as any kayak trailer for these kayak bass tournament barges. My little old fiberglass boat needs no massive truck to get it where I want to go and my 4 person family can all come along for a boat ride when they want, making it far more versatile and a better value for me than pretty much any of the current fishing pedal kayak offerings.
Having fished Plastic Navy ocean bass tournaments in the late 2000’s, you are spot on. They’re now electric boats, period. The moment tournament organizations allowed the electric motors into “kayak” bass tournaments…kayak fishing was over. It is now “clean” boat tourneys. No physical fitness or stamina required. At the very best, the orgs should have put a weight, width limits on the definition of tourney boats. Too late. Too much money being made in the peripherals industry.
Lmao I thought I tuned into Randy Blaukat’s Kayak channel. Good stuff keep it rolling.
I have a wilderness recon 120 i installed the pedal drive and its awesome but it is a barge. Its crazy to me that theyre making bigger boats.. might as well just get a john boat.
1000 percent agree with everything you said. I was going to make a similar video but havent had time. As for the Manta Ray, call Next Adventure in Portland and I gaurantee you they can order one from the factory if they don't have one. edit that, they are sold out but are a dealer
I thought my OT Salty at 85lbs sans pedal drive was heavy. 170lbs? WTH?
This isn't a problem that's unique to the kayak fishing industry it happened with mountain bikes as well , I worked it the bike world for 20 years and saw a lot of unnecessary changes . $4k kayaks $11k bicycle, may as well just go buy something that comes with a motor .
Native has the 12 ft ultimate. It's $1000. No pedal drive, gotta paddle it. It's sit inside which I like better, lower center of gravity so more stable. It weighs 65 lbs. I've had mine for almost 10 years and used mostly on rivers all over the east coast.
160 pounds is what my 12' aluminum Jon weights which is heavy for a 12'er.
Do you know the weight limit for that hull? I'm wondering if there is any advantage of these plastic john boats vrs a normal aluminum hull
The kayak community was definitely much better before all the hybrids. It was cool when people were picking up old kayaks and modifying them to their own taste and style. Everybody was coming up with DIY projects and sharing their ideas.
I understands how he feels.Only fish two different kayaks. A Hobie Sport with turbo fins and a sailing rudder - because it's so goddamn fun to have a go-cart on the water. And three Revolution 16s. They're so long and sleek that pedaling them is a breeze. I cannot carry too much gear which forces me to take only what I absolutely need and that's beautiful in and of itself.
I love my Hoodoo Sports Tempest 120p pedal drive kayak.
It's 12 feet long and weighs about 85 pounds with the pedal drive installed.
$1,499.00 plus freight shipping.
I've now owned it for a year, and have been really enjoying it.
While I like using the pedal drive, I've motorized the Tempest with a Minn Kota Endura Max 55lb thrust trolling motor that is mounted in the hole where the pedal drive normally sits.
Goes practically anywhere, and I can fish for days on a single charge.
I use a 100AH Lithium battery that only weighs 25 pounds.
I fish lakes and rivers in California and Nevada for trout & kokanee salmon, and also for striped bass on the California delta.
Definitely a great boat for the money!
Do you think the “old school” Hobie’s will hold their value in the used kayak market? And did you look at the WilderSide Freedom Launcher? Curious on your opinions of those.
That value of used Hobie's has been on the slide downward for a while now. They do not hold their value like they used to
The slayer propel 13 hull is 85 pounds, and I put it on top of my s10 all the time. I will say having the sidekick wheels is what makes doing it solo possible
I giggled like a girl when you said ditch pickle 😂
Seen ya on the B Pool Friday. That first light morning bite was crazy! I’ve got friends that call themselves “Kayak Mafia” with their old town kayaks. Ya. The industry has went bonkers. I enjoy seeing your fishing encounters on your kayak. Keep on keeping on! Tight lines!
Yeah it’s been amazing like that all season
@@spiltmilt got you at the 1:52 mark and shortly after.
ua-cam.com/video/P95CQyyqmfk/v-deo.htmlsi=WLmiGFvPSIalttDx
Right on video weight is a huge issue for me and all my old friends.
That blows
The Revo was the last true car topper.
I’m a bass guy who started well before kayaks began trending giant and slow. Have always used a paddle as the primary means of propulsion. Have a look at Crescent kayaks - they’re fantastic stripped down, simple boats that paddle like a dream and can be car-topped. I’ve fished from a Lite Tackle for three years now.
I agree with you.
I run a bass boat but when I bought a kayak for small waters, I looked for the lightest pedal drive.
Like the other comment....if trailer, then its a boat.
I see guys on youtube trailering and storing their yaks like a boat, not worth it.
Trailer maintenance is what i hate most about a boat.
I just got my first kayak recently, so I’m very new to this sport. Been fishing my whole life with small tin boats my family has always owned. My main reason to get a kayak was portability and accessibility! I love my knock off, 10’ sit on top, Chinese kayak. It’s about 75lbs loaded and I’m able to put it on the 4Runner nbd. I guess what I’m trying to say is I really wanted a kayak for all the same reasons you were explaining. And although I like to look at the new fully loaded crazy kayaks! I’d never get something that huge! Crazy expensive and heavy. Exact opposite reasons I got a kayak, for me personally. ✌️
Great comments. Can’t agree more with you.
Wow those things weigh as much as the 13’ raft I just got rid of because it was too heavy for me to maneuver by myself!
I want a pedal kayak so bad but they just keep getting more expensive. I had a cheap one for about a week and it broke on the first real use, had to return it and they didn’t have any more in stock. I keep hoping I find a killer deal on a used one but even those are still too expensive. It will happen one day!
I’d like to see sale numbers based on location. If the middle/eastern us are dominating the sale numbers then as a manufacturer you’ll cater towards what they want. It’ll never be affordable anymore either. It got popular. People are sponsored. Also inflation won’t allow it either.
As a boater, the innovations that have come out with the kayaks have made it really tough to compete against them on electric only lakes. The speed and accessibility on the lakes is unsurpassed. Can get where boats can't and have a top speed of 10mph. Mixed tournaments are getting hard to compete against them.
The wilderness systems tactical pro 128 is $2199 without the motor or fish finder. It is plug and play which is very convenient where you dont have to wire everything in. I personally am not really upset about it since i tournament fish and like the plug and play option. I am planning on buying the wilderness myself. I have the old town 106 right now and i mounted a trolling motor on it. No reason to be upset about it. If it sells well everyone follows
As a bass fishermen i LOVE the 2 new fishing kayaks!
I think its high time the manufactures marketed toward people like me.
Lmao the industry has done nothing but cater to your needs.
I'm leaning towards going dropstitch floor inflatable with a rotomolded fin drive "well" that on the fly accepts a compact electric prop to cover distance. Probably the Saturn FPK 365 v2.0, $1K delivered price. This decision is largely driven by the fact I spend 4-5 months of the year in Thailand and I need to fold the kayak into a minivan camper while I'm away.
That thing looks pretty cool. I had a Saturn Kaboat before I bought my Hobie Outback. Inflatable is convenient for travel.
I almost pulled the trigger on the FPK 365 V2 with the rudder kit a few weeks ago, postponed for too long, now it's out of stock along with the pedal kayak version. Currently use a Sea Eagle 385 inflatable with a 24-lb trolling motor, works well for my storage and transportation situation, only complaint really is having to clean and dry it well before stowage. But would like not having to worry about charging my battery on longer multi-day camping trips.
@@chrisb.3722 Interesting to hear that the advertised quantity available for the FPK365 was likely an actual number, I think it was 4 in early June. Here is to hoping that the product will be even more refined in subsequent runs. The pedal prop version needs more refinement for sure, possibly a similar adapter as the fin drive has.
The wife and I run a used 2010 Hobie Oasis Duo we picked up for $2k w/ Mirage Drives. We've spent $0 on upgrades and we (mostly her) have caught plenty of fish. Kayak fishing is as expensive as you make it :)
Love your content! Where have you had the best luck selling your used kayaks? I have a Hobie 2022 PA360 14 on a trailer that I would like to sell. As you mentioned in this video…I am one of those guys that put a spot lock and electronics on this kayak. It was your channel that gave me the inspiration! Thanks for continuing to educate.
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Facebook but you won’t get what you want out of it. I had to piece sell mine a couple years ago. Finally sold the hobie pa 14 by itself for a big drop. And mine wasn’t the 360 drive.
Best way to verify if it's a kayak... does it have a sprayskirt? Can you roll it? If not, it's probably a really cool pontoon that catches fish. 😅😂. Not sure an Inuit would identify much on the market as a kayak.
It’s a spectrum for sure. I’m pretty sure the Inuit don’t care though
Agreed. Time for some well earned Jezus juice.
If you want to get closer to the original intent of the old kayaks in normal flat water I have 2 words.... float tube. Or frameless pontoon. I just picked up a frameless pontoon, 7foot long , with oars, 450 lb capacity , you can even motorize them if wanted . Retali price $500. Sale price end of season $300. You can carry like a back pack 1/4 mile pretty simply if you dont over load it or motorize it.
100% agree on the industry being out of touch with us out west, and generally, I think we're seeing a bunch of high price point products that were developed when the market was super hot.
One innovative thing I saw is the new inflatable Isle kayak/skiff/sup hybrid. $1700 starting retail, and a fairly versatile platform. I think it would pretty compelling to the right angler.
I purchased a canoe recently from the fleamkt it's plastic 13 ft long and almost 40 inches wide but it's ultralight, superfast, i can stand in it , comfortable I can move within miles at top speed smooth no drag I can lift it over my head and I only paid $ 90 for it I have bonafide kayak, feelfree fishing kayaks but this canoe is built like a tank I can trek thru rocky creeks , drag it thru the woods , glide in 3 inches of water and mud and still carry plenty of gear the only thing is that it catches wind current but it bieng light and nimble I can cut thru the wind but I use this canoe more because it's super stealth I can get in and get out
I have Cresent kayaks. All American made, tough, and all paddle well. I have the Crew and I paddle it on the river and trolling motor it on the lake and ocean to get far distances while fishing