God bless you 🙏 Finally you did comparison that all other "bigger" youtubers failed to do properly! Best video on ceramic test, that includes automotive products! Cant wait next chapter!
This is super exciting for me. I very recently bought a huge one-piece slab table as a desk and while the seller obviously did due diligence and (according to their website) treated it (twice) with a oil/wax combination. Even so, I sometimes eat at my desk and so I've been thinking about coating it with a ceramics coating for added protection against wear, stains and UV exposure. I want this table to be a lifetime purchase, after all, and not get stained through a bit of carelessness. As such, I'm very interested in the results of your four-layer test.
I'm appreciative of you taking the time to do these test, but I'm still tremendously skeptical of these added value of these products. I still have not seen a complete reapplication video from any woodworking channel (not critical of you in any way) and the safety issue of these chemicals is still being researched here in the States. Safety Data Sheets are incomplete because of a lack of information. I'd hate for the wood community to realize down the road that we bought in to an arguably unnecessary product, all in the hopes of preventing stains, only to realize that we've now introduced more potentially toxic chemicals into our homes that could have been prevented simply by treating our wood products with respect and using coasters, trivets, place mats, and table cloths. Anywhoo, good stuff as always Javier. Appreciate what you do
Thanks man, appreciate your comments and overall I agree with you. I have tried to re-apply/repair a piece that had Blacktail on it, and the result was crap. It was totally visible and I didn't manage to repair it, so I will have to sand all down and start from scratch. So that argument is a viable one, at least for Blacktail N3. As for the toxicity, I have no opinion on this topic. I am assuming that if the coatings are approved to be used they are not that toxic, and there are many ceramics products in households. But maybe this is one of the examples where in a few years people find out that we should not use it, and then I will look all stupid. I would also not know how to even go about understanding the toxicity...
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of concern regarding nanoparticles and human health. Google "Nanoparticles‐induced potential toxicity on human health: Applications, toxicity mechanisms, and evaluation models" for one of several NIH studies discussing this. On my car, maybe. I'm more cautious about my dinner table or cabinets.
Did they look and feel the same overall? Also curious how the different ceramics look on darker woods. Thanks for your experiment and sharing the results! For my own projects, I am seriously tempted to "cheap out" and use auto ceramics since these wood ones are 3x or more the cost. I guess you can afford the best stuff if doing it for a well paying client, but for casual home projects it seems a bit much.
They looked and felt all pretty much the same. So much that I started asking myself if it’s all the same. I would definitely cheap out for a casual home project. Worst case you sand it down and recoat it…
As usual my friend, another great video. I must say though I’m disappointed you didn’t try the Black Forest product. Lol. No worries I’ll get over it. 😂 I have received the protection coating from Black Forest, but have yet to try it. It seems to be similar to Blacktail. That said, Black Forest was the first to introduce this type of coating for wood surfaces, and dollar for dollar, is a better value than Blacktail, due to monetary exchange. Did you first apply Rubio, or another finish initially? Personally I’m still not totally sold on the whole ceramic thing. Stains appear because wood is porous. When a hard wax oil product is applied, the wax component, fills those pores, and any liquid should protect. I think this is what the ceramics essentially do. Like all protectant, as you demonstrated wear off, and a reapplication is needed. Instead f ceramics, I’d love you to try the same experiment with renaissance wax, or some other type of conservatory wax. Obviously it’s the wax that does the protecting. 2 to 3 coats would cover areas first missed. What are your thoughts?
Henry my friend! Yes, I applied Rubio Monocoat before applying the ceramic products, like in past videos. Overall I agree, the ceramics just close the pores so the liquids can't penetrate the wood. I have a note to test bees wax too in the near future, so there might be more. If it works it might be more interesting due to easier re-application...
When I watch this the first thing that comes to mind is, does the ceramic coating prevent scratching the surface finish? Would it therefore be a good surface coating for a guitar?
Ceramic top coats don't provide much scratch protection on vehicles, so on wood, it will do virtually nothing. The wood and it's finish is softer than painted metal, so it's still going to get scratched. The main purpose is to provide a hydrophobic surface layer
The claim is that it prevents scratches, given the hardness of the coating, but I haven't tested this yet. The main reason is that I haven't come up with a good method of testing the scratch resistance which I could apply the same way on pieces with different coatings. If you have a good idea, I am all ears.
Thanks for your kind words. If by "testing" you mean an experimental setup like this one, then no, I haven't tested it yet. But I have applied ceramics to tables and they didn't curve/bend afterwards...
Great minds think alike! I was asking myself the same question for quite a while! However, when I came upon this video, looking a "ceramic" automotive coatings, it became clear to me that the base matrix (polymers, silicones etc.) are way more important for the effects we are seeing than the minuscule amount of ceramic particles in consumer "ceramic" products. ua-cam.com/video/up_iNN3cQ-A/v-deo.html ... But it might be a totally different story when you are looking at INDUSTRIAL SiO nano coatings though, as those have a *much* higher concentration of Si-based compounds. The problem with those might be that they come dispersed in organic solvents that might attack the underlying wax/oil layers that were applied as a foundation...
Thanks for your comment. I don't really understand any of the chemical aspects behind any of these treatments, but your perspective sounds interesting. I think that especially for the regular Joe Schmo's it will be important to understand how consumer ceramic products work. But looking into industrials might be a separate and interesting topic...
Been thinking about this for awhile. Got my sub.
Thankyou!! Thankyou!! Thankyou!! This is the video I've been looking for (I haven't even watched it all yet) :)
Most welcome - pumped you found it useful
God bless you 🙏 Finally you did comparison that all other "bigger" youtubers failed to do properly! Best video on ceramic test, that includes automotive products! Cant wait next chapter!
Thank you man, appreciate your kind words of encouragement... :D
Great follow-up to your prior videos. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
thanks 🙏🏼👊🏼
@@Woodensoul You are very welcome!
This is super exciting for me. I very recently bought a huge one-piece slab table as a desk and while the seller obviously did due diligence and (according to their website) treated it (twice) with a oil/wax combination.
Even so, I sometimes eat at my desk and so I've been thinking about coating it with a ceramics coating for added protection against wear, stains and UV exposure. I want this table to be a lifetime purchase, after all, and not get stained through a bit of carelessness.
As such, I'm very interested in the results of your four-layer test.
Thanks, I am very happy to hear that this is helpful to you. The follow up test should be posted next Saturday.
Did you notice that when you applied the automotive ceramic that it made the wood finish look better?
It gives it a little sheen…
I'm appreciative of you taking the time to do these test, but I'm still tremendously skeptical of these added value of these products. I still have not seen a complete reapplication video from any woodworking channel (not critical of you in any way) and the safety issue of these chemicals is still being researched here in the States. Safety Data Sheets are incomplete because of a lack of information. I'd hate for the wood community to realize down the road that we bought in to an arguably unnecessary product, all in the hopes of preventing stains, only to realize that we've now introduced more potentially toxic chemicals into our homes that could have been prevented simply by treating our wood products with respect and using coasters, trivets, place mats, and table cloths.
Anywhoo, good stuff as always Javier. Appreciate what you do
Thanks man, appreciate your comments and overall I agree with you. I have tried to re-apply/repair a piece that had Blacktail on it, and the result was crap. It was totally visible and I didn't manage to repair it, so I will have to sand all down and start from scratch. So that argument is a viable one, at least for Blacktail N3.
As for the toxicity, I have no opinion on this topic. I am assuming that if the coatings are approved to be used they are not that toxic, and there are many ceramics products in households. But maybe this is one of the examples where in a few years people find out that we should not use it, and then I will look all stupid. I would also not know how to even go about understanding the toxicity...
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of concern regarding nanoparticles and human health. Google "Nanoparticles‐induced potential toxicity on human health: Applications, toxicity mechanisms, and evaluation models" for one of several NIH studies discussing this. On my car, maybe. I'm more cautious about my dinner table or cabinets.
Did they look and feel the same overall? Also curious how the different ceramics look on darker woods. Thanks for your experiment and sharing the results! For my own projects, I am seriously tempted to "cheap out" and use auto ceramics since these wood ones are 3x or more the cost. I guess you can afford the best stuff if doing it for a well paying client, but for casual home projects it seems a bit much.
They looked and felt all pretty much the same. So much that I started asking myself if it’s all the same. I would definitely cheap out for a casual home project. Worst case you sand it down and recoat it…
there should have been a bare wood and a wood with hardwax oil only as comparisons! Good video though
Thanks. Bare wood I have tested in previous videos, so that’s likely not necessary, but hardwax would have been useful, agree
As usual my friend, another great video. I must say though I’m disappointed you didn’t try the Black Forest product. Lol. No worries I’ll get over it. 😂 I have received the protection coating from Black Forest, but have yet to try it. It seems to be similar to Blacktail. That said, Black Forest was the first to introduce this type of coating for wood surfaces, and dollar for dollar, is a better value than Blacktail, due to monetary exchange. Did you first apply Rubio, or another finish initially? Personally I’m still not totally sold on the whole ceramic thing. Stains appear because wood is porous. When a hard wax oil product is applied, the wax component, fills those pores, and any liquid should protect. I think this is what the ceramics essentially do. Like all protectant, as you demonstrated wear off, and a reapplication is needed. Instead f ceramics, I’d love you to try the same experiment with renaissance wax, or some other type of conservatory wax. Obviously it’s the wax that does the protecting. 2 to 3 coats would cover areas first missed. What are your thoughts?
Henry my friend! Yes, I applied Rubio Monocoat before applying the ceramic products, like in past videos. Overall I agree, the ceramics just close the pores so the liquids can't penetrate the wood. I have a note to test bees wax too in the near future, so there might be more. If it works it might be more interesting due to easier re-application...
When I watch this the first thing that comes to mind is, does the ceramic coating prevent scratching the surface finish? Would it therefore be a good surface coating for a guitar?
Ceramic top coats don't provide much scratch protection on vehicles, so on wood, it will do virtually nothing. The wood and it's finish is softer than painted metal, so it's still going to get scratched. The main purpose is to provide a hydrophobic surface layer
The claim is that it prevents scratches, given the hardness of the coating, but I haven't tested this yet. The main reason is that I haven't come up with a good method of testing the scratch resistance which I could apply the same way on pieces with different coatings. If you have a good idea, I am all ears.
Great video! Have you checked the durability of ceramic coatings against wood expansion/contraction due to normal humidity changes through the year?
Thanks for your kind words. If by "testing" you mean an experimental setup like this one, then no, I haven't tested it yet. But I have applied ceramics to tables and they didn't curve/bend afterwards...
how about doing the tests with water, since it is the most common liquid a dining/coffe table will be exposed to.
The result is the same but the stains are harder to see pn camera
Great minds think alike! I was asking myself the same question for quite a while! However, when I came upon this video, looking a "ceramic" automotive coatings, it became clear to me that the base matrix (polymers, silicones etc.) are way more important for the effects we are seeing than the minuscule amount of ceramic particles in consumer "ceramic" products. ua-cam.com/video/up_iNN3cQ-A/v-deo.html ... But it might be a totally different story when you are looking at INDUSTRIAL SiO nano coatings though, as those have a *much* higher concentration of Si-based compounds. The problem with those might be that they come dispersed in organic solvents that might attack the underlying wax/oil layers that were applied as a foundation...
Thanks for your comment. I don't really understand any of the chemical aspects behind any of these treatments, but your perspective sounds interesting. I think that especially for the regular Joe Schmo's it will be important to understand how consumer ceramic products work. But looking into industrials might be a separate and interesting topic...