Heir the two big things the Romans themselves admitted they learned from Hannibal were how to hide troops in plain view and how to march. First is sort of hard to explain but basically by the time of the Second Punic War the Romans had learned from fighting the Gauls to be wary of forest, swamps and other terrain features near where a battle was taking place. Gauls liked to hide in and behind such things and the Romans knew that. Hannibal however, despite Carthage really being a cavalry power in terms of land combat, was an infantry expert. He is quite famous using the rolls of the land to hide his troops. Basically, Romans would look from their camp at Hannibal's and see nothing but rolling plain and think no troops were hidden but he would have men (usually his African spearmen and more experienced Iberians) literally laying on the ground behind a rise where they could not be seen. Second is specifically the Ambush at the Battle of lake Trasimene is supposed to have taught the Romans the importance of marching in good order. The center and rear at lake Trasimene were not in formation and got obliterated, and though it takes a while we see it and battles like it referenced for Roman military regulation reforms about marching. Though they don't really settle on the look we are used to from media until around just before the time of Julius Ceasar.
Pyrrhus of Epirus, upon first seeing a Roman army said something along the lines of “these are no barbarians, they are disciplined and more orderly than we are.” So Rome had to have had some semblance of marching prior to the Punic Wars.
@@buffdude4281 Yeah but that was in battle. The Battle at lake Trasimene might be the only time in history an entire army ambushed another entire army. Look it up plenty of people do a great job explaining the battle, but the broad strokes are as such. Hannibal had a camp on a hill on the far end of the shore the Romans were marching towards. The Romans at the front of the column were well formed thinking they were marching towards the enemy, but the rest of the Romans were just marching along pretty ragtag thinking the battle wouldn't be till the next day anyways. Unbeknownst to the Romans most of Hannibal's men weren't in the camp but north of the Roman column in the wooded uplands beyond the shoreline. When the Ambush started the front of the column (about 1/4) cut their way out but the rest of them including the consul get killed or captured (also a decent portion of the Romans that escaped are surrounded later and surrender). Point being is while it takes a while for them to settle on the Imperial marching style (formation screening troops and outriders) but after the Second Punic war the Romans are already trying to make changes to make sure another lake Trasimene doesn't happen again.
The gimmicky ambush tactic by Rome was a misplay. Ultimately the other player was aware that there were likely troops that they couldn’t see and so advanced in formation. Therefore the Romans didn’t actually really enjoy much flanking advantage and their troops just arrived late to the engagement, with the triari over extended and surrounded. Perhaps it would have worked if they had their troops further back, baited Carthage forward and then brought the troops out of the woods on their flank, but there is no way that would have worked on a human player that would have been able to guess after advancing to the midline that the woods were likely full of troops.
Nice to see Rome again. Really thought Rome would have that with the infantry, morale & skirmishing advantage but I think you are right about the psychological warfare happening with Rome trying to prepare for elephants lol.
great job by carthage, always loved carthage and always love seeing the underdog win but this time amazing plan by rome as well, that outflanking maneuver automatically made me think rome won especially after the good job with the numidians good stuff both sides
I can't remember whether the rocks block projectiles on this map (they block pathing your units move around them), but the Syrians positioned just behind them, while the Balearics positioned just in front (in the initial exchange). Don't know if it played a role or not but you have to watch for small stuff like that. While slinger's low angle of fire and faster projectile makes them better at hitting things on the move it also means they will hurl into obstacles more, especially with the Rome 2 engine not being the best at determining whether line of sight is blocked or not. EDIT: when I rewatched you can see the projectile models (javelins from Iberians) stuck in the stones, so they do block missiles.
Why are first Cohort not very heavy? Not sure but if i remember right they can upgrade to Eagle Cohorts. But yeah, those 2 are the roman "support" infantry, not including the Pretorian and Pretorian guard which are the Elites. In fact is memory serves: You start with Hastati, Princepii, Triarii, Equita and General Bodyguards. Then you get Legionaries (from Hastati and Princepii), and Veteran Legionaries (from Triarii), you also unlock First cohorts and i think Praetorians (not to be confused with Pretorian Guard). Then lastly you get Legionary Cohorts (from Legionaries), Evoci Cohorts (from Veteran Legionaries), Eagle Cohorts (from first cohorts), Armored Legionaries, Praetorian Guard (from Praetorians), Legionary Cavalry (from Equita), and....that upgrade to the General Bodyguard. I think the Vigils get upgraded at some point but i can't remember.
Eh he did fine imo, I honestly think that if he had switched out one of his numidians for a melee cav then there's a good chance he might have had that game. Carthaginian infantry is kind of paper against rome.
I have no idea why people keep underestimating the Libyan infantry they can win against legionaries 1 vs 1 and can hold for too long if you can see the only 2 Libyan infantries that was destroyed they got flanked but still did a pretty decent damage.
Did not expect Carthage to turn that around. Props!
Agree. I thought it was going for Rome. They had a good strategy.
Props to the Carthage player!! Great patience and maneuverability!
Heir the two big things the Romans themselves admitted they learned from Hannibal were how to hide troops in plain view and how to march. First is sort of hard to explain but basically by the time of the Second Punic War the Romans had learned from fighting the Gauls to be wary of forest, swamps and other terrain features near where a battle was taking place. Gauls liked to hide in and behind such things and the Romans knew that. Hannibal however, despite Carthage really being a cavalry power in terms of land combat, was an infantry expert. He is quite famous using the rolls of the land to hide his troops. Basically, Romans would look from their camp at Hannibal's and see nothing but rolling plain and think no troops were hidden but he would have men (usually his African spearmen and more experienced Iberians) literally laying on the ground behind a rise where they could not be seen. Second is specifically the Ambush at the Battle of lake Trasimene is supposed to have taught the Romans the importance of marching in good order. The center and rear at lake Trasimene were not in formation and got obliterated, and though it takes a while we see it and battles like it referenced for Roman military regulation reforms about marching. Though they don't really settle on the look we are used to from media until around just before the time of Julius Ceasar.
Pyrrhus of Epirus, upon first seeing a Roman army said something along the lines of “these are no barbarians, they are disciplined and more orderly than we are.” So Rome had to have had some semblance of marching prior to the Punic Wars.
@@buffdude4281 Yeah but that was in battle. The Battle at lake Trasimene might be the only time in history an entire army ambushed another entire army. Look it up plenty of people do a great job explaining the battle, but the broad strokes are as such. Hannibal had a camp on a hill on the far end of the shore the Romans were marching towards. The Romans at the front of the column were well formed thinking they were marching towards the enemy, but the rest of the Romans were just marching along pretty ragtag thinking the battle wouldn't be till the next day anyways. Unbeknownst to the Romans most of Hannibal's men weren't in the camp but north of the Roman column in the wooded uplands beyond the shoreline. When the Ambush started the front of the column (about 1/4) cut their way out but the rest of them including the consul get killed or captured (also a decent portion of the Romans that escaped are surrounded later and surrender). Point being is while it takes a while for them to settle on the Imperial marching style (formation screening troops and outriders) but after the Second Punic war the Romans are already trying to make changes to make sure another lake Trasimene doesn't happen again.
The gimmicky ambush tactic by Rome was a misplay. Ultimately the other player was aware that there were likely troops that they couldn’t see and so advanced in formation. Therefore the Romans didn’t actually really enjoy much flanking advantage and their troops just arrived late to the engagement, with the triari over extended and surrounded.
Perhaps it would have worked if they had their troops further back, baited Carthage forward and then brought the troops out of the woods on their flank, but there is no way that would have worked on a human player that would have been able to guess after advancing to the midline that the woods were likely full of troops.
Nice to see Rome again. Really thought Rome would have that with the infantry, morale & skirmishing advantage but I think you are right about the psychological warfare happening with Rome trying to prepare for elephants lol.
"Campanian Cav has a massive attack-"
*MEZZANINE PLAYS*
great job by carthage, always loved carthage and always love seeing the underdog win but this time amazing plan by rome as well, that outflanking maneuver automatically made me think rome won especially after the good job with the numidians good stuff both sides
I can't remember whether the rocks block projectiles on this map (they block pathing your units move around them), but the Syrians positioned just behind them, while the Balearics positioned just in front (in the initial exchange). Don't know if it played a role or not but you have to watch for small stuff like that. While slinger's low angle of fire and faster projectile makes them better at hitting things on the move it also means they will hurl into obstacles more, especially with the Rome 2 engine not being the best at determining whether line of sight is blocked or not.
EDIT: when I rewatched you can see the projectile models (javelins from Iberians) stuck in the stones, so they do block missiles.
7:03 Triarii sammich.
Bird at 5:13 has a death wish.
Legions!! What are your professiosn!!
Why are first Cohort not very heavy? Not sure but if i remember right they can upgrade to Eagle Cohorts. But yeah, those 2 are the roman "support" infantry, not including the Pretorian and Pretorian guard which are the Elites. In fact is memory serves:
You start with Hastati, Princepii, Triarii, Equita and General Bodyguards.
Then you get Legionaries (from Hastati and Princepii), and Veteran Legionaries (from Triarii), you also unlock First cohorts and i think Praetorians (not to be confused with Pretorian Guard).
Then lastly you get Legionary Cohorts (from Legionaries), Evoci Cohorts (from Veteran Legionaries), Eagle Cohorts (from first cohorts), Armored Legionaries, Praetorian Guard (from Praetorians), Legionary Cavalry (from Equita), and....that upgrade to the General Bodyguard.
I think the Vigils get upgraded at some point but i can't remember.
1212 ad for Attila would be fun to watch
Loving the rome 2 replays...was wondering if the Kentucky Fried Advisor had any insight into any of these battles.
Rome threw that so hard when all the Triarii got wiped. Plus the misplay with their archers late and the cav.
Eh he did fine imo, I honestly think that if he had switched out one of his numidians for a melee cav then there's a good chance he might have had that game. Carthaginian infantry is kind of paper against rome.
You’re pretty frickin awesome man.
Would be great if this game got the Quality of Life features in tww3
I always love to see Rome beaten
I AGREE. And the "op barbarians". And I love seeing the "underdogs" winning.
Carthage must be destroyed (but not today) 😢
I have no idea why people keep underestimating the Libyan infantry they can win against legionaries 1 vs 1 and can hold for too long if you can see the only 2 Libyan infantries that was destroyed they got flanked but still did a pretty decent damage.