Waffen-SS: Elite or Mass-Army?
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2021
- Waffen-SS divisions are often portrayed as an elite formations, yet, this view misses that the Waffen-SS had a large amount of divisions with very different combat records. This video takes a closer look at the Waffen-SS based on academic sources and will also explain why many statements of the Waffen-SS divisions are just wrong, since they don't account for the heterogeneity of the various divisions.
Cover: Bundesarchiv, Bild 101III-Zschaeckel-159-08 / Zschäckel, Friedrich / CC-BY-SA 3.0
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Cover colorization and modification design by vonKickass.
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» SOURCES «
Wegner, Bernd: Hitlers politische Soldaten: die Waffen-SS 1933 - 1945: Leitbild, Struktur und Funktion einer nationalsozialistischen Elite. 9. Aufl. (unveränd. Nachdr. der 8. Aufl. 2008), Schöningh: Paderborn, Germany, 2010.
Böhler, Jochen (Ed.); Gerwarth, Robert (Ed.): The Waffen-SS: A European History. Oxford University Press: New York, NY, USA, 2017.
Schulte, Jan Erik (Hrsg.); Lieb, Peter (Hrsg.) Wegner, Bernd (Hrsg.): Die Waffen-SS: Neue Forschungen. Schöningh: Paderborn, Germany, 2014.
Leleu, Jean-Luc: La Waffen-SS: Soldats politiques en guerre. Perrin: Paris, France, 2007.
Kroener, Bernhard; Müller, Rolf-Dieter;Umbreit, Hans: Organisation und Mobilisierung des deutschen Machtbereichs - Teilband 2: Kriegsverwaltung, Wirtschaft und personelle Ressourcen 1942 bis 1944/45. Bd. 5/2. Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt: Stuttgart, Germany, 1999.
Müller-Hillebrand, Burkhart: Das Heer 1933-1945. Entwicklung des organisatorischen Aufbaues. Band I. Das Heer bis zum Kriegsbeginn. E.S. Mittler & Sohn: Frankfurt am Main, Germany, 1954.
Müller-Hillebrand, Burkhart: Das Heer 1933-1945. Entwicklung des organisatorischen Aufbaues. Band II. Die Blitzfeldzüge 1939-1941. Das Heer im Kriege bis zum Beginn des Feldzuges gegen die Sowjetunion im Juni 1941. E.S. Mittler & Sohn: Frankfurt am Main, Germany, 1956.
Müller-Hillebrand, Burkhart: Das Heer 1933-1945. Entwicklung des organisatorischen Aufbaues. Band III. Der Zweifrontenkrieg. Das Heer vom Beginn des Feldzuges gegen die Sowjetunion bis zum Kriegsende. E.S. Mittler & Sohn: Frankfurt am Main, Germany, 1969.
Overmans, Rüdiger: Deutsche militärische Verluste im Zweiten Weltkrieg. 3. Auflage, Oldenbourg: München, Germany, 2004.
#WaffenSS,#EliteOrMassArmy,#EliteOrNot
>> ERRORS & CORRECTIONS
I'm afraid you are going to have to scour the comments section and toss a few people out. As soon as something like the SS comes up their fanboys crawl out from under every rock and start proclaiming them as misunderstood heroes.
@@ToddSauve - yeah, the Wehraboos and the Neo Nazis crawl up through the floorboards and into the living room with anything SS related. WW-2 Germany related TBH.
Thanks for the information.
How have you managed to get this video monetized lol? Fair play man
When you say "[strictly] all", it's actually exagerated, as some of the tiniest, latest, divisions, like the Albanian one, may well not have had any.
_Belgium's most elite & fanatical special forces unit:_ *The Waffle SS*
Don't forget about the Luftwaffle.
You'd think that would be 5 SAS.
@@hixtonweasle6169 Goering's light delight fluffy,airy. I also recommend the Schwalbe, light as a feather. Have it with a Heinkelken maple 20mm.
Yes as a Belgian we can say our waffles are better as any other special forces group that exists
And Amsterdam's most elite & fanatical specical forces unit: The Bicycle SS.
The massive balls you must have to attempt to post this on youtube. Great video.
@CMDR Poopypants look, here’s an internet nazi now!
@CMDR Poopypants What.
Judging by his pinned comment it was manually reviewed already so maybe you can voluntarily have that done? I don't pretend to know how UA-cam system works
@CMDR Poopypants "You tube only cares about black people these days."
More like a corporate decision than a moral one. Do you know how many companies want to divert away from UA-cam during the adpocalpyse? Seriously, UA-cam prioritizes ‘company first’ before the rest just like any company, because how are you gonna profit?
As always, a careful examiniation of facts, and a focus on what is relevant, as opposed to "exciting" trivia. Your work is an absolute treasure.
thank you!
No Alien knights templar....
Like you, I appreciate a historical presentation -- *without* whitewash or apologists or political correct revisionism.
As you might be able to tell from my picture, I'm an American Civil War reenactor. I routinely get up in front of high school students in a VERY liberal Western US State and talk race politics in America. You want to talk about a controversial subject? 🤣
But I base everything I teach on the first person accounts of those present at the events I describe. I base them on the diaries, letters, and memoirs of not just the famous men and women, but the average everyday person. I don't need a person in the 21st Century to give me perspective on what people felt, they tell me in their own words. And this is what I teach in schools.
And that, my friend, is guaranteed to make everyone uncomfortable. A lot of myths get debunked and a lot sacred cows get slaughtered for leather.
Well said. Concur 100%.
Drink everytime he says Waffen SS.
You can't exactly be picky when you get Bagrationed, D-Dayed and Ruhred all at the same time.
🤔🤭🤣🤣
Don't worry Steiner's Counterattack will solve all of those problems... if it can get launched that is.
"Bro, I am straight up not having a good time right now" - Germany. Literally the entire war.
@@generalfred9426 All I know is everything will Wenk.+11
@@generalfred9426 Everything will be fine after someone captures that traitor Fegelein. All that's needed is some premium wunderwaffen and a stout counter-attack. Final victory will be achieved only after these conditions are met.
People: "History is written by the victors!"
Books about the Waffen SS: "Allow us to introduce ourselves."
lmao
😁😁😁
@@andrewiannelli7635 Me too 😊
It’s just a stupid quote, history as been written by the losers all the time
or the many post war memoirs made by many wehrmacht generals that gave birth to the many "clean" wehrmacht myths, so yeah... history is totally written by the victors...
Next do a video on when you think Steiner's counterattack will finally arrive.
Das war ein *BEFEHL*
der angriff steiner ein befehl!
Very soon it will be a turning point. Berlin will be saved.
It will happen, just wait!
any day now, just you wait
A friend from New Mexico tells me that his dad had a silver skull ring, a common motif in the US Southwest, which he wore as an officer stationed in post-war Germany. It earned him a lot of dirty looks, as many people mistook it for an SS Totenkopf ring.
I think one of my biggest take aways from this video is a warning against what you might call "Monolithic Thinking". As you point out at the start, it's complicated. I had assumed the SS to generally be not very good people, but the idea that, for example, an Italian farm boy might be "convinced" to join and that a lot of them were not volunteers really paints a totally different picture of the organization.
Things get confusing when you draw org charts of authoritarian states. Sometimes things happen to sate some balance of power or show of loyalty.
I've actually met one guy who was SS-officer on eastern front. He was Finnish and joined to avenge soviet invasion of finland (he could not foresee that finland would fight another war against the soviets). He said he had no idea about SS or nazi politics in general before he joined
@@obiwaankenobi4460 Well if they were truly volunteers and believers in the NSDAP mission it's not like they were tricked into anything...
@Vechs Good to keep in mind in cases like that of Guenter Grass.
@@ziumzium5049 Stay mad commie lover. Keep larping while we keep making gains.
Elite or Mass-Army?
So... both? Depending on which unit & time
It was both. Is the book out there I forgot what it's called but it's about the German military. Basically the German military for war was extremely impressive and it's not just the author or storing saying that it's our own intelligence and generals saying that as well.
The problem is, necessarily they weren't fighting better, they just have better gear. But in the end years even the SS-troups don't get the requested weapons.
The SS mainly took the prestigious fights, where a win was certain. And most kills from the SS were against civilians or POWs.
My grandfather fights in the Wehrmacht and one day they were ordered to kill POWs the next day. He doesn't want to do that, because it's against his ethics to shoot at disarmed enemies. When this situation would have become real he would refuse to execute them and would most likely be put on the wall as well. Luckily for him the bloodthirsty SS came and happily take the "kills" on their count.
@@dajo1373 Your grandpa would have most likely not been in danger of being shot. Pretty much no German soldiers were executed for refusing to commit attrocities, most of the time they were changed units or put on other duties.
@@mrnobody5669 It was the late war period in Yugoslavia, there wasn't a chance to put him in another unit and a human live was nearly worthless. It wasn't 100% safe that they would kill him, but it wasn't unlikely. And severe punishment was a certainity. He told me many stories about his war experience and pow time and it was really bad, in most documentaries the perspective of the German soldiers isn't addressed and the Balkan overall is for most people just a side theatre.
@@mrnobody5669 During the end of the war, the National Socialists even did it with German civilians who did not want to die were hung on the nearest lantern. Keyword Volkssturm. Was considered a coward And punished sympathy with the enemy. The end-war phase in Germany in particular was very hysterical.
I am positively surprised that this video was apparently not demonitized.
The yt gestapo algorythm is not always efficient.
@@Perktube1 lmao
SJWs - Reeeeeeeeeee
well because never did demonetize these kind of videos?
Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that nazi imagery in any context is an insta-demonitization.
but like most historical content creators, MHV has been following the defined guidelines and turns out, they ended up fine.
Maybe if the other guys doesn't deliberately ignore this guidelines,gets sanctioned,then bitch and moan on how they are persecuted. Just to push an agenda, their stay on youtube is not going to be that awful.
It aggravates me that this is the first thing people think. It's encouraging UA-cam to demonetize it because you're essentially giving them consent to do so on a 100% education and historical video. We should expect it _isn't_ demonetized, not that it is.
Very impressive video. Most WW2 vids, especially when discussing Germany, and even more so the SS, are very emotionally charged, so it's very refreshing to hear such blunt impartial take on the topic.
History is always written by the winners.
Emotion is never something you should allow to influence you when studying history, in order not to have a biased opinion. History is there for you to study and learn from, so that you will not repeat the mistakes of your ancestors, it’s not there for you to judge or take sides in.
@@jeffersonaraldi7168 Yes but often it's not even history, it's a mix of propaganda and edutainment if you will.
@@watching99134 Of course!!
But propaganda is almost everything.
That's why mass murderers like Stalin and Lenin are the good guys, and to this day, at least in Russia, worshipped..
On the other hand.....
I'm sorry, but considering Nazis to be disgusting people is not "emotionally charged"
That irony, when a Hugo Boss commercial plays during a video about the SS.... ;D
That old story again... He didn't design any uniforms.
@@comsubpac well he produced them so??
@@ProfShibe so did everybody else.
@@comsubpac He actually did design and of course produce them. I don't know why there is this myth that he didn't (well not him specifically but his company, no idea about him personally).
Very simple version is that the original SA uniforms were mismatched surplus, a design team comprising of Nazi members and Boss employees (who were also Nazi members) underwent a consultation and design process to make the uniforms universal, better looking and easily produced so as to create a more uniform SA appearance. Boss was the primary contractor for this step due to his ties with the NSDAP. Gradually as the SS wanted to distance themselves from the SA some SS members, again consulting with designers from Boss) made a minor redesign of the SA uniform into what we know as the SS uniform the main changes being a different style of hat and the move to all black (black had previously just been the SS identification colour used in the trim of their uniforms while they were in the SA) except for keeping a brown shirt to signify the tradition of the organisation as an SA offshoot.
@@jimmehjiimmeehh9748 that is utter nonsense. The SA Uniform wasn't designed but originated in surplus army uniforms originally intended for the forces fighting in Africa during WW1.
The SS Uniforms were designed by Karl Diebitsch and Walter Heck. Both didn't work for Boss.
Hugo Boss and his company didn't design anything but were producers of clothes for workers, likesteel workers. Only after the war his son-in-law transformed the firm into a men's fashion line after Hugo Boss had left.
You mentioned it's a touchy topic in your blog FAQ. Glad you've finally made it! Must be a lot of research for you.
In the 70s or 80s, one of the ex-SS trooper members during WWII once commented that as the war progressed, more and more you WANTED to be able to join the SS units if you were among those Germans joining the fight. If you had a choice. This is because more and more, the SS units got first dibs on the increasingly limited supplies of (1) ammunition and (2) food. This is on the premise that if you joined the forces and then saw combat, it would be better to know you had some food in your belly and bullets in your gun. This may not be as true for the regular army wehrmacht units.
Of course, the (thus far) unspoken point to ruminate over, here, is:
How would >YOU< act if You were a [male] German during the mid- to late-war? Would you (a) avoid choosing the SS units, prefering instead to go without ammunition? (This may include full meals as well.)
OR!...
...would you (b) join be more anxious to join an SS unit, knowing that you could count on 3 square a day and be comforted to know your weapon would at least fire some rounds when te Russians came a=knockin' (looking for your head)?
Of course, there would be those pesky post-war Allied trials to look forward to...and some of your fellow SS buddies were up to some very bad antics, indeed.
I would probably join the SS, just knowing I got both bullets to fire and food to eat. But I would try to frame from committing warcrimes if I can. But knowing the nature of the Waffen SS it would be extremely difficult, to avoid. Especially if the Russians come a=knocking.
It is true the SS were given preferential treatment over regular Wehrmacht German units in regards to ammunition, food, equipment ECT. The regime placed a high importance on prioritizing the SS, allocating resources to ensure they had access to better equipment or at least ammunition and provisions, while regular Wehrmacht units were often left with fewer resources due to this prioritization. It was a deliberate decision, with the aim of maintaining their loyalty, effectiveness, and overall superiority compared to the regular army. The original comment stated regular Army soldiers were more likely to go hungry, while the SS were well fed in comparison and it was a significant factor why people enlisted in the SS. Because I don't know the answer, my question is, was it common knowledge to the average German and or foreign members that enlisted, the regular German army units starved and were severely undersupplied?
Very good analysis, I really like how you take the time to put the numbers & names on the board while you’re speaking. Informative and well researched. Great upload.
Excellent presentation that takes down some myths. I particularly enjoy the graphics, which are selected with a refined sense of humor. Thanks for your scholarship.
Yeah, the Waffen-SS had both elite and cannon fodder formations. On one hand you have Skorzeny and his legendary commandos and one the other hand you have Dirlewanger and his clowns.
Kind of what happens on any army btw...
Skorzenys “legendary” commandos are one of the greatest propaganda victories in history. They didn’t do anything notable. Shit, the famous rescuing of Mussolini was really the Paras.
What is so legendary bout Skorzenys commandos?
dirlewanger had shit troops but did unexpectedly well in combat, both against soviet regulars and against partizans. i.imgur.com/iUfYBQE.png german period propoganda meant for allies even talks about him despite the small brigade he commanded here
Yeah, but initially the dirlewanger are a police force, and after that become a combat unit.
Fantastic analysis. Thank you for doing the research and explaining this. I never understood this before. Your work is so appreciated!!
Amazing video. Very informative. Thank you for making all these! Keep up the great work!
Want to see more properly sourced videos based on current academic research?
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@@thefrenchareharlequins2743 😂🤣
Thanks for this first class post. After so many years , as a non German speaker living in Vietnam, I finally learnt the true meaning of the word 'Waffen' and the distinctions regarding the various SS formations. Thanks a lot. Cheers.
I am always amazed with the wonderful information you provide and your presentation of it. Thank you for your effort. I have only started watching your videos, but I have thoroughly enjoyed every one, Thank you again.
Excellent . The production and graphics are outstanding. For all MHV programs. The topics are expressed in a clear and rational non emotional or polemic-political way. This is especially to Your credit. The same can't be said about other all the other WW-2 history content providers (TIK). :}
Could you do a video on special forces such as the brandenburgers or ss fallschirmjäger battalions?
Hello.. A question: "Sonderkommando LSSAH" was what kind of unit? The Rubber Stamp Seal definitely exists as an archaeological relic. Otto Günsche replied in a letter that he did not know about it.That Kempka may have known more but he was already dead.
I don't know.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized I will in the future upload a short video just about that rubber stamp. With a wooden handle and the story of it. But not before one year. Need to gather the material for that. I'll show the letter of Günsche, too.
Ok. Good project. I must provide the photos.
LSSAH was the name of the Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler. It fought in Poland, France, the Soviet Union and later in France again under many names like LSSAH as part of the SS-Verfügungstruppe, verstärkte Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in the Soviet Union, then as SS-Division (mot.) LSSAH and then finaly as 1. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division LSSAH and 1. SS-Panzer-Division LSSAH.
The name Sonderkommando LSSAH may have been a designation of the Leibstandarte during 1934 and 35, during the deployment of the SS-Sonderkommandos, since those Sonderkommandos (Special commands) were build after the model of the Leibstandarte.
Well, Sonderkommando is what Germans called the working unity made up of death camp prisoners. As for LSSAH, I can only assume that stands for Leibstandarte Schutzstaffle Adolf Hitler. The only thing to my knowledge with that name was the 1st SS Panzer Division, Leibstandarte Schutzstaffel Adolf Hitler (LSSAH).
Now where the Sonderkommando fits in there I have no clue; but I presume that perhaps, "Sonderkommando LSSAH" may refer to death camp worker units that were under the direct supervision of 1st SS Pz. Division, LSSAH. Even then that's iffy, because why would a panzer division be residing over a concentration camp worker unit made up of prisoners? I don't know.
Excellent video! It helps so much for get an overview of this topic
Your analysis of the varies Waffen SS Divisions was accurate. You are a wealth of information. 👊👍
I personally was not aware of this 3 tier ranking system for the SS divisions. What I find interesting is that even though the 1st tier divisions were supposed to be fully German, but still the SS division Wiking had Nordic battalions under it, such as Finnish volunteers.
I didn’t know either of the 3 tier system, and I’ve been into military history and technology for 20+ years.
Nordic is Germanic though, though Finland is mainly finno-ugric its got a sizable population of ethnic swedish people, and considerable intermarriage
there was a Battalion of Estonians in the Wiking that replaced the Finnish Battalion in 1943. Unit would be the basis of the Estonian 20th SS division.
@@raptorzoz6251 true, just interesting to think they'd consider Finns Nordic enough as well, even though they could've been interpreted as half slavic almost
@@Barabel22 yeah, it does make sense to have a tiering system for such a state but still never heard of it before
The Mitchell and Webb sketch covers the Waffen SS quite well.
...are we the baddies?
Why skulls though?
„Now we‘ll see how these communists deal with a crack SS-Division. „
„Uh, yes“
I'm a WWII reenactor, and when I used to do WSS we quoted that ALL the time. Like, constantly.
@@Archangelm127 when I did it, it turned into that Peep Show scene where Mark finds out that Daryl is a racist and isn’t playing around.
Great coverage of a difficult topic.
thank you!
Actually it's an easy topic: Freedom Loving people fighting against commie/russian inhumanity.
Freedom' abovevall.
Excellent useful historical information. Thank you. Peace & Health.
Will you do a video about the Japanese Kantokuen Plan? They built up to invade the USSR in 1941 but never did. It would be very interesting to hear.
there is something in the works
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized We'll all be waiting for it
Long sorry short: Japan would’ve been destroyed
They were in no way shape or form ready to meet Russian armored superiority and above all, the weather would have destroyed them.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Cool!
@@internetstrangerstrangerofweb Meat grinder wouldn't even begin to describe that outcome for the Japanese.
Even without Soviet armor, the environment and the lack of infrastructure at that end of Russia would have defeated a Japanese invasion.
It is important to fully realize the layout, origins and the reasons for the formations of such troops.
Their formation as a rival to the regular army back in the 30s and 40s is seem today in Iran's Islamic Republic Guard forces and their relation with the Iranian Army both before, during and after the Iran-Iraq war.
Other "political" units didn't have the same problems like the SS or Irans Republican Guard Forces like say the NKVD rifle divisions. Its up to the political establishment if they wan't to let a rivalry happen in the first place. Most likely they let it happen to safeguard from any army coup since they essentially have 2 armies, if one gets out of line they can use the other to subdue the rebellious army.
Thank you very much for a fascinating and information packed video
"Recruit" might not be the best word. My grandfather was one of the Volksdeutsche in the Waffen SS.
He was taken from his farm in Yugoslavia at gunpoint in front of his family. Weeks later, he was fighting on the Eastern Front with a mandatory tattoo under his arm. He was later an American POW and expatriated to Bayern. My mother and my grandmother had to escape the ethnic cleansing of Tito by crossing the Austrian border and also making their way to Bayern.
Oddly enough, they would go see Otto Von Habsburg when he held reunions for other exiles in Munich. I interviewed him for my thesis in the 1990's.
When I see Waffen SS and Elite together, I'm usually only thinking about a few divisions like the LSSAH, Das Reich, HJ, etc.
Roughly up to number 10 was elite. But not all, #4 Policei was not elite.
You make a good job of explaining that things are not as straight forward as often portrated. As Lindybeige said in one of his videos: almost everything can be - correctly - commeted by saying "I think it's a bit more complicated then that ".
Too bad lindybeige is awful and biased lol.
Nice video, as usual, one of the best ww2 channels so far.
I had a conversation with some friends related to another subject, do you have an idea of what was the distance in which pilots shooted at V1s ?
I have seen an interview of WC Roland Prosper Beamont where he said that he changed his gun harmonisation to 300 yards after trying for few days the official harmonisation of the Fighter Command, but I cannot find any info at all.
Due to the amount of explosives carried by the flying bomb, do you think they tried at the beginning to shoot them from too far away or they let each pilot to try what they think was best?
Thank you mate
May I suggest a video explaining the WWII german military symbols (in relation to standard NATO symbols)?
thank for all the great videos 🙏
Yes I would like to know that as well
What a cool accent you have! Great video 👍
Good video. Gracefully handled for such a prickly subject. I had heard of "pressing" into the SS but I was unsure of the credibility as most of what I had seen was from personal accounts.
I do have a couple of questions. Is it true that SS training had a heavy focus on political subjects? Also is it true that the SS units in the early war almost exclusively had beute-weapons and such or were there always components with "proper" weaponry?
Very informative; great video
Fantastic summary - very interesting
I really really love how detailed you present topics, even digging up old documents. Someone that truly understands what he's talking about... unlike my poloticians...
@Helal Vodka Ehm nein...
@Helal Vodka Hmmk...
I think "poloticians" is not a mistake, but an intentional mistake 😉 I mean, polo-ticians. A bit of history analysis, if I may: first group of polo-ticians is assumed to originate during ancient time, when the weak/less competent hunters (yet the majority) decided that strong man of the tribe should share equally the result of hunting campaigns. This decision was done by their representatives, with "golden tongue", so called "tong-icians". Later, after the fire and wheel were discovered and respectively invented, they were identified by simplification of the original word, to "T-cians", or "ticians". Just before the democracy hit the ancient Greece, it was a rich and bored Persian "tician" that invented polo game (check the Wiki for reference). His colleagues started to call him polo-tician. Later, they join the game, so all turned to polo-ticians. Then, Athens removed the Persian origin, inflating the word to poli-ticians (poli=multi). And so, here we are!
@Helal Vodka Sorry to tell you that all German Political Partys are shit they can't keep promises lie and are corrupt
For a specialised study, I would recommend Douglas Nash's works on the IV SS Panzer Korps, which was centred upon Totenkopf and Wiking. Currently there are two volumes of this history completed with a third awaited.
The heer armoured divisions they have raised by '39 consider themselves an elite as well, I think. All their tankers do.
@@SusCalvin The Panzerwaffe was build to be an elite part of the Army. If it really was is a different topic.
@@projectpitchfork860 The armoured units consider themselves an elite of the army, the edge-of-the-sword guys.
It looks like the SS of the early war is more like police/security units who will follow behind the combat units and hold occupied areas.
Nice video.
I am looking forward that you could make a video about the change of the german infantry organisation from 1939 to 1945, and the strength of each type of them.
Compare to the SS troops and panzer divisions, it is a Trivia for us.
They kinda recruited literally everyone starting after Barbarossa (while also purging many) ,due to the low manpower and the need of army that can be frequently "flex taping" the frontlines
There is a number of local police units recruited to aid with their local area. It looks like they functioned as police and security units in occupied areas at first. They take part in pacification and anti-partisan action.
A lot of other powers at the time also field some kind of security troops or blocking forces. Austrialian home guard units fend off imperial japanese troops until the tip-of-the-spear combat units on other fronts can be redirected.
@@SusCalvin Yeah they recruited many balkans into police/guard troops especially in Yugoslav region where Partisans are rising
My grandfather was voluntold the last 18 months of the war. He was 14, he spent more time in a Russian POW camp than he did on the front lines.
@@ekscalybur That also sounds like another typical security and rear unit task.
What decided which organisation you got voluntold into?
Some of the most controversial definitely the international divisions (Eg. Charlemagne, Legione Italiana, etc.), especially when their countries were lost in the latter half.
The french defended germany harder then their own country.
@@noobster4779 The French soldier died bravely protecting their country in 1940. It was the government that gave up. Please take your sad attempt at humor someplace where people prefer fake history. I can point you to a few places...
@@princeofcupspoc9073 French government incompetences led to a defeat which was generally high command for not really understanding the situation
@@princeofcupspoc9073 who pissed in your cheerios?
@Jimmy T Haha, maybe France shouldn't have declared war then.
What about a video about waffen sd penal units?? Or special units eg waffen ss-fallschirmjäger 500/600
Wow, every day is school day. Thank you for your post
Höchst informatives Video! Danke dir!
I was really confused on the waffen SS for a while. I kept hearing they were essentially the elite special forces of the Wehrmacht like green berets of Germany. Then I heard they were the militarized force of the gestapo. Then I heard they were the direct private army of the nazis and hitler. But also that the waffen SS had multi ethnic members like slavs and Asians.
@@juergenhartmann4754 There were Chinese, East Indians, and North Africans in the Wehrmacht.
There were many units in the SS that had different ethnic composition. Many eastern Europeans joined to fight the communists. There was even a British SS unit.
Well with the massive expansion quality would be adversely impacted. It takes time to train a unit to be an effective fighting force. Rapid expansion eliminates that time for training.
Thanks! I've always wondered about this question.
First of all, a great video as always !
Spolier alert for TLDR:
Started as Elite before the war, ended up being mass army with lots of non german citizens
A few years ago my grandma told me some stories about the war. My mothers family comes from the German minority in Romania, the "Siebenbürger Sachsen", and speaks a very strange and old German dialect. Anyway, when Romania switched sides in 1944 and the Germans pulled out, one of her neighbours in the tiny village near Sibiu/Hermannstadt was conscripted under threat of hanging into a Waffen-SS unit. After the war somehow the new, communist government got wind of this incident and the whole family was deported to somewhere in the Soviet Union. She never heard of them again, and the young man conscripted never returned until my grandparents, uncle and mother left for West Germany in the 1970s.
Ага, их Сталин съел блин. Бедные ССовцы, они ведь не хотели оставлять от белорусских деревень одни обожжённые остовы печей. Как мы знаем из CoH 2, все что плохого случалось на востоке, было сделано кровожадными коммуняками, а не бедными нацистами, которые сами почему-то писали как смеялись разбив голову очередной бабке. :/
As a Finn this was not really a question to me, due to the fact of how badly the SS Nord fared in the Lapland during Barbarossa. Basically the men didn't know what to do and took heavy losses in attack and when the Soviets counter-attacked the unit broke.
So that really shows that the SS wasn't as tough as they wanted themselves to look.
Thankfully, the Finnish soldiers advanced as usual and prevented a complete disaster. The SS soldiers were then put under Finnish command for the remainder of the operation.
During Lapland war Nord Division was one of most effective german unit. After that they was sent to West front where they served well. Until got finally destroyed.
@@lokki874
Which makes the German forced in Lapland really sad....
great Video, I would like to add the aspect you mentioned with Himmler getting chief of the "Ersatz-Heer" lead to him being able to push Wehrmacht-Soldiers into the WSS. As Helmut Günther wrote about the 17th SS-PzGrenDivi 'GvB', after they retreated from France they were reinforced witharound 2000 Luftwaffe-Personnal.
Also great that you explained the Tier-Levels for the Divisions, many them to get confused by the three designation. They are Combat strenght designations, not only show how 'Foreign' a unit is. E.g. 32. Freiwiligen-Grenadier-Division '30.Januar' was formed by germans but was added the 'Freiwiligen' because of their low training and equipment. with only three light Regiments and a StuG-Abteilung, Signal and Pioneer-Platoon and an added 8,8, Battery.
I noticed that too in some theatres. The Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine have their own security units of some sort. People used to guard air bases and navy installations, that kind of chaps? All the powers at the time have people on security and anti-sabotage tasks.
The organisation of the country makes it weird to sort out. People build their personal little power structures and defend them.
My grandfather was part of the Volksdeutsche in Hungary. He ended up in the Waffen-SS in 1942 or 43, and survived the war and eventually immigrated to the US in 1952.
I've always thought of the Waffen-SS as the German version of the French Foreign Legion.
It undoubtedly recruited some non-Germans who might otherwise have fought for the Legion.
Not really. The French Foreign Legion is a more or less elite disposable fighting force who made his recruitement among some ex-criminal, desperate, foreigner with muddy past or who want french nationality and of course real fighter.
The SS were an Elite and precious fighting force at least in theory.
Correction:
The French Foreign Legion occasionally recruited some ex-criminals without asking too many questions.
While the SS would make criminals of all its units.
@@charloteauxvalerian3875 the foreign legion was created after Switzerland abolished state sponsored mercenaries. Ironically, probably 10'000 Swiss then joined the foreign legion. At that point, it was probably a bit of an elite force. Since Switzerland had a massive growth in wealth in the 19th century, the interested in working as a soldier in a foreign country deminished further. During 2nd WW, the foreign legion seem to have been very low quality. That changed when german war veterans joined after the war and massively improved the moral and discipline. This effect still holds on, and by reducing its size and increasing the bar, it is now kind of an elite force, although not planned as one. This is at least how I understand it, so take it with a shovel of salt.
@@AnEnemy100 The SS did not make criminals of its men. The "Allies," including that defender of human rights the USSR, declared all SS to be criminals at the Nuremberg-IMT trial.
I love how he make those parts with texts look like the German Empire's flag, as in 12:55
Schwarz weiss rot - the patriotic colors - as opposed to schwarz-rot-gold (or Senf!)- the colors of the Hapsburgs, who damaged Germany so much over the centuries.
@@ericrachut4207 I did don't know that, thanks for sharing!
Hm. Didnt even notice that. Question... why do you like that? I am genuenly asking.
@@jeova0sanctus0unus The black-white-red have always been the colors of the patriotic, conservative party and is north German in origin; they are taken from the Prussian flag (black and white) and the Hanseatic League (red and white), which were cities in Germany and along the Baltic coast - German or German-influenced - who had a trading partnership in the Middle Ages. B/W/R was the flag of the Kaiser's Germany (1871-1918) and was retained in the 1920's and 1930's for maritime use. The black-red-gold are south German/Hapsburg in origin, with colors from the Hapsburg eagle (black feathers, red talons, gold beak) and was first used (as a national flag) for the Frankfurt parliament during the 1848 Revolution; it was the national flag for the Weimar republic and post-World War II. (Supposedly these colors were also used for Freikorps uniform in the Wars of Liberation against Napoleon). The state of Brandenburg is run by ex-SED politicians and they have had the B/W/R outlawed - another reason to fly it!
@@ericrachut4207 I take it you omitted the name of the party you speak of intentionally.
In articles written by Oberstleutnant, historian Agilolf Kesselring(yes, son of Albert Kesselring), he often states that one of the main issues with Waffen-SS was that it attracted a lot of highly motivated men who were recruited to enlisted ranks, while they could have been used a lot better as NCO's or even CO's in the Heer.
Nice
Own of the best historical channels I’ve ever seen and it’s form UA-cam of all places, man tv has fallen in quality.
Gute Infos! Was das Video noch besser machen würde, währe zusätzlich zu den "Piktogrammen" hin und wieder echtes Bild Material das das ganze visuell unterstützt.
Danke! Ist Absicht, weil Copyright / Urheberrecht, UA-cam Richtlinien, etc. würde den Aufwand extrem erhöhen.
Das meiste Material ist Propagandamaterial und ist eigentlich nicht freigegeben (Urheberrecht), es klagt nur die zuständige Organisation nicht. Nur wenn sich das ändert: Dann gibts massiv Probleme.
Dachte das Urheberrecht verfällt nach 80 Jahren. Wieso gibts massiv Probleme wenn sich das ändert dMn? Verstehs aber auch bzgl Aufwand etc. (Great Job anyway) :)@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized
@@jumper8392 leider alles nicht so einfach
This was fascinating! It explained a lot about the role and make up of the ss. During the Vietnam War, even the previously all volunteer USMC were forced to rely on conscription.
The USMC was not all-volunteer prior to Vietnam. Korea and WWII had conscripted Marines as well.
@@mikespike3962 Fair enough but between Korea and Vietnam the USMC was largely volunteer
Needless to say, that's not something they teach in USMC boot camp history and traditions classes.
@@johnh.tuomala4379 In general that shouldn't be something to be ashamed of in my opinion. People often have the wrong idea about conscription.
@@herptek You're right. By the time I was old enough to enlist the draft was a thing of the past. I remember the oldtimers telling stories about draftees, and how they wouldn't volunteer for anything. Those stories were often exaggerated, since some of the oldtimers who told them were draftees themselves, who had decided to stay in.
In the case of the Waffen-SS, which was not really part of the regular Wehrmacht, but instead a private army formed by the Nazi Party, I think it was a bit different. When young men in Germany were called up, they were often given the choice between Waffen-SS and Wehrmacht.
Many, including foreign volunteers
( e.g., the Finns) chose the Waffen-SS because they wanted first-class training. Others heard that in the Waffen-SS one got the newest weapons and equipment, and in many cases, a little better chow.
The great 'back hand blow' or the 3rd battle of Karkov show at the very least the ability of the waffen ss as a military unit. Out numbered 8-1, these units were decisive in the stabilizing of the southern front after Stalingrad.
Hello Bernhard! Do you have material/videos on late medieval era or early modern Ottoman cavalry?
Last time I was this early the most powerful ships of the Kriegsmarine were pre-dreadnoughts
You should change the name of your channel to "History is complicated, not straightforward"
My grandfather and his two brothers were volunteers from bosnia as ethnic croats and joined in 1942. We have photos of "Prinz Eugen Kaserne" and his platoon. The commanding officer had a turban. :)
We know all about the war crimes committed by the Handscar Division. It's why the Serbs massacred every muslim they could a few years back.
@@louisavondart9178 that makes no sense😂. Handžar was made to protect Bosnians in eastern Bosnia from Serbs. Handžar did commit war crimes out of revenge.
People from Bosnia are very based XD
My father was in the Domobran at Bleiburg. Came to a gate that split into two paths one side said Homeguard/Wehrmacht the other SS/Ustashe. Saved one guy from walking under the right hand one
Can you do a video on special tactics for fighting in Normandy’s bocage? Especially on how Shermans used their hedgerow cutters
done already: ua-cam.com/video/9sbwU-KMH2k/v-deo.html
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized thanks! Don’t know how I missed this one 🙏
What was the connection between the Einsatzgruppen and the SS formations? Thanks for this excellent video.
they worked together but so did the Wehrmacht.
Einsatzgruppen were part of the Allgemeine SS and subordinate to the security office rather than OKW. Of course they would be assisted by Waffen SS and regular Wehrmacht troops when needed.
nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/4391-affidavit-concerning-the-ss?q=russia#p.2
nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/5015-extract-from-the-testimony?q=author:%22Otto+Ohlendorf%22#p.1
Thank u so much for this video, My grandfather was an Waffen SS mann and i always wanted to learn a bit more about it!
Glad it was helpful!
Interesting choice to not mention the night of the long knives and the WA as part of this.
Very well researched.
Good rundown of the topic
My grandfather voluntarily joined the German Mountain Rangers (Gebirgsjäger) So he wouldn't be forced into the SS. People at this time knew the horrible things they committed. He died in the Battle of Montecassino in Italy.
Interesting. Where was your grandfather from?
@@S571032 from Silesia, which is South West Poland today.
@@solokom 5th Geb.Div.?
Unfortunately, I do not know that exactly. I got this information from my grandmother's memoirs, which she dictated to my mother in 1980.
@@solokom The 5th GibDiv had been involved in the battle - so I could be his unit. It's always interesting to find out where the own Grandfather had been in WW2
I love the black white red theme for this video
I wonder if the relationship between the Waffen-SS field units and the KL Guard units (separate from the Camp staff proper) is analogous to the relationship between Wehrmacht and the POW (Stalag/Oflag) Camps under OKW jurisdiction.
Great video, a generalization but well done.So much time effort and resources were wasted on the third rate units, maybe its a good thing there was.
13:55 Habitants of upper Silésie (now again south West Poland) as a Frontier region had especially complicated ways (same as Alsace between France and Germany). In battle of Monte Cassino may 1944 two brothers from Silesia fought there one for a Polish Brigade another for Fallschirmjäger Herman Göring div.
that's one hell of a way to wedge a bet huh? :)
@@franks471 moreover that one brother who was with Germans was a machingunner so could really hit his brother. Happily they both survived that's how could find each other after the war and share the story cause they lost contact at the begging of war.
The mixed ethnic character of pre-1939 Silesia.
Christmas must have been fun for their family afterwards. "Hey brother, sorry I missed you in 1944"
16 minutes in and not demonetized
Not demonitized YET!
It already 2 days
The more you know, precise information given unravels a mystery I was not looking for. But what makes this video so much more enjoyable (to the point my weird brain starts to add comedy to it) is the accent of the narrator. I think you could only top it off with Arnolds voice. Get to ze choppha!. Narrator himself just sounds like he just finished shoeshining his military boots, gave the watcher a wink and marched off back to "ze ghlorious fazerland" doing that obvious walk march where he pulls his leg to waist height whilst smacking his heels loudly with each step. I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.
One of the quirks in the logistical side is that the Waffen-SS is supposed to rely on heer logistics and supply. In practice, they seems to get castoffs. Frontline heer units get the new stuff and pull heavier combat duty.
Home guard, police and militia units in the other warring powers also use stores of leftovers. They have units designated for third-line security duty or police/pacification duty or garrison/holding. These units see action during the war, and a blocking force of home guards make a difference.
Spent the first 13 minutes of this video scrolling through the comments..
Sooo now we're gunna go back to the beginning and pay attention 🤣
Edit: fantastically sourced and presented video, as always. Bravo sir, may the UA-cam monetisation algorithm not screw you
Keep in mind that the statement at the end goes for the SS Panzer divisions. However that goes for any German Panzer Division during WW2.
The SS had in total 38 divisions. With only around 6 Panzer divisions. The rest were deemed suitable for defensive operations.
All in all. You win wars with supreme logistics not with bravery.
1st Leibstandarte, 2nd Das Reich, 3rd Totenkopf, 5th Viking, 9th Hohenstaufen, 10th Frundsberg, 12th Hitlerjugend. That's seven Panzer divisions.
4th Polizei, 11th Nordland, 17th Götz von Berlichingen. That's three Panzergrenadier (mech inf.) divisions.
Total offensive/defensive force 10 divisions. Plus several independent SS-Tiger battalions attached at corps level. Sorry for nit-picking ;-)
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th were the core WSS-units, the first WSS units to fight and saw most action and most refits. These divisions were considered "elite" as reflected by their equipment, meaning they had full numbers of tanks, StuGs, reconnaissance, artillery and (partly) mech. infantry etc.
The others I named were all founded around 1943. Most of them weren't as well equipped as the ones above; 12th SS being the exception. They were not elite but not bad either.
Any other Waffen-SS formation was merely suitable for anti-partisan and anti-civilian "duties", most of them reaching divisional status only on paper.
The "elite" divisions were prioritized when it came to replacements in both men and material, which made them look superior to their "poor" Wehrmacht counterparts, who suffered more from bad logistics (exceptions granted, like mech. Div. Großdeutschland and Fallschirm-Panzer Div. HG). The "elite" divisions also spent a lot of time far away from the front lines, because their "bravery" caused them so many losses, they had to be completely rebuilt. Many SS Divisions suffered big time from a lack of trained officers on every level; many higher commanders were not chosen by skill but by how deep they had their heads in Himmlers arse (with few "positive" exceptions).
I can't think of any Wehrmacht Panzer or mech. division that didn't perform as well as any "elite" Waffen-SS unit.
And as you correctly said: wars are won by logistics.
@@ottovonbismarck2443
I disagree!
Erich Von Mannstein wrote in his memoirs that the 3rd Totenkopf division was the best SS-division through the war. However he also wrote that, that fact did not compensate their inferior training and leadership. Therefore the division sustained unnecessarily high casualties.
The Division with its flaws made them miss promising maneuvers leading to unnecessary skirmishes.
Over to the Panzer grenadiers. The 11th Nordland got graded overall “suitable for defensive operations” by the end of 1943. That’s for how the division has performed over time
ALL German Panzer divisions that existed on paper and in reality were prioritized in all capacities.
Regarding the SS-divisions being prioritized with material I have yet to find sources that support the claim. I have found that some SS-divisions had slightly higher artillery pieces than their Wehrmacht counterparts. The SS panzer-divisions were however larger in numbers to their Heer counterpart.
The SS’s logistics were done through the Wehrmacht
The SS were an extension of the Nazi party therefore they got overrepresented in media to boost the myth when in combat they were not an elite.
Germany’s elite during WW2 are the following:
Großdeutschland - performed highly and consistently throughout the war
Fallschirmjäger - high performance with unique capabilities
Brandenburger - probably the closet we got to a SpecOps unit in WW2
@@simonkyro661 Hi Simon, after re-reading what I wrote, I don't think we disagree too much. Manstein is a questionable source, but his assessment of the Totenkopf is correct. If it was the best, or LSSAH or Reich; how to measure ? I remember that Totenkopf as a regiment was the first unit to panic and flee at Arras 1940. Yes, they were quite green then.
As for Nordland: they were never fully equipped with either men or material; fit for defensive purposes still left them in a better shape than many other units. They didn't perform too bad but were no crack unit. Their attached Wehrmacht Tiger battalion was though.
We can argue over the fact that a higher strength in men in 1943/44 means something along the lines of "prioritized", but I agree that their material logistics suffered the same way as for any German unit since the same people were responsible.
I'm totally with you on GD and the Fallschirmjäger. Brandenburger were certainly an important unit, but their special forces character does exclude them from this discussion (although, I think the SAS was better). What about 15th and 21st Panzer divisions in Africa ? I'd totally consider them elite; they just had the misfortune to be overcome by "circumstances".
I've said that the Wehrmacht performed at least as well as the best SS units. What I really meant is that the Wehrmacht in fact was better.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 Bismarck, the Wehrmacht used a two graded system for strategical overview of a Divisions Combat readiness
1-1 = fully ready, have shown repeatedly that they perform good, can be used for offensive operations.
4-4 = Unit is depleted and cannot operate, suitable for behind the line function
1: Kampwert - Logistical status on a unit at *date*
2: Inners Wertes - Historical performance, therefore estimated performance for a new task
E.g. 12th Nordland 2-3
“2”: Unit is rested and replenished, missing heavy weapon support
“3”: Unit can be used for Defensive operations
All the best,
Simon
@@simonkyro661 Yes, I knew that system. All the best to you as well !
I want to know more about the sideways shifts in the German armed forces. What decided if a unit was going to be part of the Waffen-SS instead of the heer? Where did the line between different german civilian, party and military institutions go?
I have a question and hope for an answer what Happend to the MP18 and why didnt Nazi germany Produce them it would have been way cheaper then an mp38/40
Great video, your primary sources are a delight in every video. I personally think it depends what unit anyone talking about. Early war Waffen SS didnt get priority on logistics. Only mid war could there be examples of "priority" over resupply particularly their Equipment (1. SS Liebstandarte, 2. SS Das Reich. 3. SS Totenkopf.) Later units varied from poor equipment to very good equipment. Same with combat performance many divisions were poor combat wise or average compared to Heer. The units that performed well at times were 1. SS Liebstandarte, 2. SS Das Reich, 3. SS Totenkopf. Other included were later units the likes 9. SS Hohenstuafen and 10. SS Frundsberg. Units like 12. SS Hitlerjugend were extremely fanatical if not one of the most fanatical Division's the Germans made. Their combat performance is controversial as at times fought well and others it was clearly suicidal defensive or offensive efforts. The problem is each Division is different and had different experiences and performed diffrently its a topic that needs alot if research. The Waffen SS cannot be judged under a few paragraphs the same as the Wehrmacht. Many Waffen SS were party members, many were volunteers, concripts or joined for no other reason than joining a so called "elite" group. ( The elite comes from SS propaganda, many men believed this at the time. This all my opinion ive built up on reading over the years. So apolgise if i made any mistakes, if anyone feels ive made mistakes feel free to correct me.
A host of books i recommended below, they are great reading to understand this massive subject that needs tbh scientific analysis to dispel myths on the subject.
Waffen-SS: Hitler's Army at War by Adrian Gilbert
Waffen SS Encyclopedia by Marc Rikmenspoel
I also recommended a memoir below, now memiors should be read cautiously but it can help to get inside one soldiers mind.
Lost Honour, Betrayed Loyalty: The Memoir of a Waffen-SS Soldier on the Eastern Front by Herbert Maeger
I believe that none of the SS formations were of division size before the invasion of the USSR. During the invasion of France Leibstandarte, Das Reich, and Totenkopf were all regiment sized.
My father-in-law was a haupsturmfuhrer in a heavy company in the 5th SS Wiking Division. He was French with Prussian parents and served with Norwegians on the Russian front.
Negative. SS formations were regimental in size during the polish campaign, but by France 1940 there were several divisional sized SS units. SS-Verfugungstruppe was a Motorised Infantry Division in the 18th Army invading the Netherlands, along with SS-DH and SS-AH Motorised infantry Regiments. SS-Totenkopf was a Motorised Infantry Division which was part of the OKW reserve but deployed forward on 17 May 1940 and took part in fighting (and being overrun) at Arras. The SS-Politzei division was also in OKW reserve but deployed into Army Group C. So at least 3 division size units pre Barbarossa all in combat. And already misbehaving.
tell him we said thank you for your service
2:07
Wait really? I thought they almost ran out of soldiers during that year!
Then again, they had to fight several countries at once near the end there.
My mother was raised in northern Greece (formerly Macedonia). She was a young teenager when the Germans came to bail out the Italians. There was a 6pm-6am curfew; mom and her cousin found themselves across town from home after 6pm. Scared, they attempted to sneak home undetected. They were accosted by two drunk Italian soldiers, on their way home. Mom and her cousin knew that they were to be sexually assaulted. Out of nowhere a Waffen SS Captain drove up and saved my mother and her cousin! He loaded the girls into his car and took them home, safely. This Captain recognized mom as the little girl next door to his quarters. He was invited in for dinner and shared his strudel and schnapps with mom's family...
Oy gevalt what a horrible evil man!!!
@@CommanderLongJohn agreed!
I thought it was great, I’d also like, to see a history of, Penal battalions, on the Eastern front, how many, and where the fought !!
Mass murderers in Estarn Front is the closest description
0:46 I think it’s all three and more because it also depends of where there serving and what time in the war as the tide of war and resources changed.
One of my ancestors was an SS man. he was a field officer working with an 88 flak gun crew. He was killed in the krefeld air raid, but whats so crazy about it is, he wore a pennant around his neck and a ring on his thumb, both with the logos of the SS black sun. I had never seen it used by german soldiers until then.
‘As always, take these numbers with a grain of salt’ lmao
How did my dream is in your pfp
Looks like it was just convenient to recruit the Volksdeutsch and foreign troops into the SS organization, I think people might just nowadays put too much emphasis on the whole image issue in this regard. Makes perfect sense that the divisions consisting of men who could just as well have served in the Army would have a distinguished elite status, while the rest are basically just extra manpower for the war effort.
Security troops play a big part in the war. There's a need for people who man "quiet" fronts or pacify territory or form up blocking units meant to hold the line until frontline units can be diverted. You don't need the cutting edge of the heer for all that. Just garrison your local area, make sure partisans don't bomb the railroad.
Sometimes things get weird and hard to untangle because the NSDAP. The people rising up in the NSDAP have a distrust for the old guard of the German state. It's a bit of a fight where different NSDAP guys build their own power structures within the state as well.
The half-German Thomas Haller Cooper was called up into the Waffen-SS, not the Heer, after being stranded in Germany by the outbreak of war (he was a British subject). He had some kind of Volksdeutsch certificate obtained by his German-born mother.
My uncle was the driver for Wittmann- Heinrich Reimers. My grandfather Frank Reimers was born in Weimar.
Wait having excellent equipment but there're outdated that doesn't sound excellent to me really or do u mean the weapon quality