This system when used properly will keep a soldier alive and ready to fight for 3 days and is far superior to a chest rig out in the woods ,or jungle environment for a multitude of reasons. Chest rigs and body armor are useless in the woods.
Chest rigs and body armor, as worn nowadays evolved from (most likely) experience in Mogadishu ("Black Hawk Down") and the mounted operations in Iraq and Afghanistan...If I had to operate in a woodland or jungle environment I want ALICE or M-67 Nam era stuff, the M-56 stuff was good but they learned in Nam that canvas stuff got wet and stayed wet and would slowly rot hence the reason they developed the nylon M-67 stuff which really never got issued out over there in totality just parts of it like the Tropical ruck and ammo pouches, you can see smatterings of the other stuff in pictures, it never got issued stateside because the LC-1 stuff had come on the scene by then..... On the streets of a "Kenosha" (where we seem to be heading now!) I'd probably want chest plates and a helmet, or at minimum an old school pasgt vest and helmet. Sidenote: That was a brave videographer walking around a battlezone with no flak vest and helmet, I'll say that!
@@docback63 precisely, my AO is almost all mountains, very hot and humid in summer, and extremely cold and snowy in winter. There's no way I would hump around a plate carrier here. I currently use a full Alice set up. Every piece being either unissued, or barely used. My other kit is the lbv-88e with the correct buttpack etc. Also never issued. I was even able to get my hands on the pistol belt pad. As for rucks I use a medium alice pack, also found in never issued condition. Including the extra storage side pouch, along with the large canteen and tri fold shovel. I always try and get people in my area to go with Alice, or something similar. It works, it's cheap, and you can still find it in like new, or in my case brand new condition. I might try someday to find the british plce stuff in DPM of course. Looks like their system is more comfortable. Or even the newer russian webbing,If they only made pouches that fit m16 mags I would be ordering today.
@@vermontvermont9292: Sounds great. I have a mixed ALICE, M-67 set-up myself. Heck I even have a couple of PASGT helmets that a retiring soldier gave me, which I striped out the old webbing and got the AERO pad system for. Have a PASGT vest, it ain't the newest, coolest thing but hey, it's better than nothing. I use the Medium ALICE pack ad frame, The Medium ALICE was intended for "Heavy" Infantry, ie, Armored Infantry, the Large ALICE ruck was intended for "Light" Infantry, Airborne,, ranger, and Special Forces according to a now retired West Point Grad officer I know. Does everything I would need it to do.
@@docback63 It is what works for you. I like both the MOLLE system and old ALICE. It's really personal preference on both systems. Light weight and adjustable is good. So is solid old school gear.
I used all this gear when I was in Marine Infantry. We mainly used the LBV and only used the mag pouches when on the range to qualify. The only issue I had was getting mud in any of the snaps. I would have to dig the mud out with small sticks and make sure my canteens were dummy corded. I did have some fraying, but nothing that would make the items unservicable. As old and used as my gear was that I was issued, I really didn't have any other issues. I actually feel that the ALICE gear is still a very good option and is still effective in a battle. I have bought all the field gear I used in the Marines and have the new gear. I wouldn't hesitate to use the ALICE gear in a fight even today.
I added a converted 5 liter water bag with a straw conversion . I still carry 1 canteen because it holds my cup/pot and rothco stove. Ithe bag is on my shoulder straps, and hangs in the middle of my back, also this provides more cushioning from a frame pack. I also cheated on the frame as it is also a old style folding chair. Back in the day it was a very different approach to usability. This was great for long hikes and feild use..
There's nothing better than belt webbing. Having a millennium belt, molle assault vest and a plate carrier, I find it works the best. You can hold all your gear without a pack and it's great.
It doesn’t matter if one is on a budget ALICE gear is good kit and worth having! It’s cheap, easy to find, works well enough, and will stand the test of time. Best for light patrolling where one would be out for a day or two, but for urban environments I’d choose a chest rig.
I used this gear in the jungles of the PNW during counter narcotics work. I preferred it to chest rigs, vests, etc. When you have to stow your rain jacket, MRE, Cap, and gloves, they fit nicely in the butt pack.
70s and 80s cold war alice gear is the best for the money , very well made and durable equipment. Especially when carrying weight for long distances. Great camping gear , and for example i use it prospecting for gold and metal detecting to carry gear . One of my favorite mods is sewing 🪡🧵 the compass pouches on , pants, jackets, and on the canteen covers with fishing 🎣 line .
This set up with a few changes is what I use for 2 gun and 3 gun competitions. Actually a chest rig system would be better for the run and gun style of these competitions but I enjoy going with what I learned a long time ago.
Symmetry: it’s true. I wore these load carriers in basic training as well as in my first unit. If you were running heavy on one side it made a day at the range rather miserable.
the alice lbe is really good. its a basic no nonsense lbe kit. its great for short patrols or even sentry duty. i have a set, and im so far pretty impressed. basic, yeah. but over complication can be a huge problem.
A lot of the mag pouches had a strip that also attached to the upper half of the harness. To help keep them from sagging , and help with the weight . Atleast on the m67 gear. But I swear I've seen it on lc1 etc. But they're often cut off.
vermont Vermont The LC1 had tabs on back to attach to suspenders. The 20 round pouches had straps. A look at olive drab site will show that. FM 21-15 helps too.
The M-67 "shorty" poches had straps that went up to the rings on the suspenders to help with the weight, the short lived 30 round M-67 pouches (seen in photos of GIs in Vietnam in summer 1972) also had those straps, (I have an original pair of both these types) When they came out with the LC-1 30 round pouches they eliminated that strap and just put a tab with grommet for the hook of the suspender to attach to.
The M-67 pistol belt, the "Davis" belt sucked. The buckle would come undone...and usually at the worst possible time. The "H" suspenders are still good, and I like them almost better than the "Y"suspenders. The M-67 Buttpack (nylon) was never adopted by the Army, the Grunts in Nam by that time were basically humping everything on their rucks and the Buttpack (M-56/61) had pretty much fallen into dis-use over there. The Marines DID procure and use the M-67 nylon buttpack however. The Army had a "field training Pack" in the early 1980s. Looked like what you've got there, with D rings on the back that hooked to the hooks on the suspenders....not as good as the M-67 which had nylon tabs with grommet holes...the D rings always seem to turn sideways and slide in the suspender hooks, unless you tape the hell out of them. Footnote: I know a guy who was in the Army at Fort Bragg in 1972 and he says everybody was looking around for an M-61 Buttpack, they were all the rage then
I preferred the 'H' harness as you could hook the back straps to the pistol/web belt just above/behind your canteens and the bearing weight was in shear and directly distributed to your shoulders and you didn't get the 'fish' mouths or bouncing canteens. Just recently picked up an M67 butt pack that can be shoulder worn instead of on my web belt. I need that space in between my canteens for my old issue box IFAK.
I mix m56, m67, lc1, lc2, etc. I actually like the m56 stuff. The m67 suspenders are nice, but the rear hooks for an upper buttpack are kinda pointless.
@@gijr2003 i'm just saying there's a m67 sleep system carrier which is supposed to be carried on the shoulder area of the m67 harness you could carry a buttpack if you wanted but the hooks are for the sleep system roll.
Joey Goguen Really? So why did they make the M67 butt pack? It has special loops for the suspender straps. Like the ALICE pack, you can put any damn thing you want on it. Look up MLCE. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mlce03.jpg
Gordon: ebay or just Google M61/M67 butt pack. I just bought an NOS M67 from claysmilitary (ebay) for $24.98 + shipping. Came to around $32 and some change. There are plenty of the older models out there though + the straps for the shoulder carry.
H suspenders were the best before PASGT flak vest came along. Y suspenders were meant to be worn with the flak jacket. When I was in the USAF I didn't get individual-issue LBE for _operational readiness exercises_ (i.e. pretending stateside base is a forward air base, working out of pretend bunker tents then launching combat sorties that way), so I bought my own H suspenders and web belt, mainly to better hang the issued gas mask, hip carrier, and water canteen. Prior experience with the basic LBE stemming from Army ROTC in the Philippines.
This system when used properly will keep a soldier alive and ready to fight for 3 days and is far superior to a chest rig out in the woods ,or jungle environment for a multitude of reasons. Chest rigs and body armor are useless in the woods.
AMEN
Chest rigs and body armor, as worn nowadays evolved from (most likely) experience in Mogadishu ("Black Hawk Down") and the mounted operations in Iraq and Afghanistan...If I had to operate in a woodland or jungle environment I want ALICE or M-67 Nam era stuff, the M-56 stuff was good but they learned in Nam that canvas stuff got wet and stayed wet and would slowly rot hence the reason they developed the nylon M-67 stuff which really never got issued out over there in totality just parts of it like the Tropical ruck and ammo pouches, you can see smatterings of the other stuff in pictures, it never got issued stateside because the LC-1 stuff had come on the scene by then..... On the streets of a "Kenosha" (where we seem to be heading now!) I'd probably want chest plates and a helmet, or at minimum an old school pasgt vest and helmet. Sidenote: That was a brave videographer walking around a battlezone with no flak vest and helmet, I'll say that!
@@docback63 precisely, my AO is almost all mountains, very hot and humid in summer, and extremely cold and snowy in winter. There's no way I would hump around a plate carrier here. I currently use a full Alice set up. Every piece being either unissued, or barely used. My other kit is the lbv-88e with the correct buttpack etc. Also never issued. I was even able to get my hands on the pistol belt pad. As for rucks I use a medium alice pack, also found in never issued condition. Including the extra storage side pouch, along with the large canteen and tri fold shovel. I always try and get people in my area to go with Alice, or something similar. It works, it's cheap, and you can still find it in like new, or in my case brand new condition. I might try someday to find the british plce stuff in DPM of course. Looks like their system is more comfortable. Or even the newer russian webbing,If they only made pouches that fit m16 mags I would be ordering today.
@@vermontvermont9292: Sounds great. I have a mixed ALICE, M-67 set-up myself. Heck I even have a couple of PASGT helmets that a retiring soldier gave me, which I striped out the old webbing and got the AERO pad system for. Have a PASGT vest, it ain't the newest, coolest thing but hey, it's better than nothing. I use the Medium ALICE pack ad frame, The Medium ALICE was intended for "Heavy" Infantry, ie, Armored Infantry, the Large ALICE ruck was intended for "Light" Infantry, Airborne,, ranger, and Special Forces according to a now retired West Point Grad officer I know. Does everything I would need it to do.
@@docback63 It is what works for you. I like both the MOLLE system and old ALICE. It's really personal preference on both systems. Light weight and adjustable is good. So is solid old school gear.
Gear like this is timeless , it will always be needed and have it use!
I used all this gear when I was in Marine Infantry. We mainly used the LBV and only used the mag pouches when on the range to qualify. The only issue I had was getting mud in any of the snaps. I would have to dig the mud out with small sticks and make sure my canteens were dummy corded. I did have some fraying, but nothing that would make the items unservicable. As old and used as my gear was that I was issued, I really didn't have any other issues. I actually feel that the ALICE gear is still a very good option and is still effective in a battle. I have bought all the field gear I used in the Marines and have the new gear. I wouldn't hesitate to use the ALICE gear in a fight even today.
Thanks for the information, coming from you I listen!
I added a converted 5 liter water bag with a straw conversion . I still carry 1 canteen because it holds my cup/pot and rothco stove. Ithe bag is on my shoulder straps, and hangs in the middle of my back, also this provides more cushioning from a frame pack. I also cheated on the frame as it is also a old style folding chair. Back in the day it was a very different approach to usability. This was great for long hikes and feild use..
There's nothing better than belt webbing. Having a millennium belt, molle assault vest and a plate carrier, I find it works the best. You can hold all your gear without a pack and it's great.
It doesn’t matter if one is on a budget ALICE gear is good kit and worth having! It’s cheap, easy to find, works well enough, and will stand the test of time.
Best for light patrolling where one would be out for a day or two, but for urban environments I’d choose a chest rig.
I like this set up. I’m gonna be putting together something similar of my own soon.
I used this gear in the jungles of the PNW during counter narcotics work. I preferred it to chest rigs, vests, etc. When you have to stow your rain jacket, MRE, Cap, and gloves, they fit nicely in the butt pack.
70s and 80s cold war alice gear is the best for the money , very well made and durable equipment. Especially when carrying weight for long distances. Great camping gear , and for example i use it prospecting for gold and metal detecting to carry gear . One of my favorite mods is sewing 🪡🧵 the compass pouches on , pants, jackets, and on the canteen covers with fishing 🎣 line .
Well done!! Thank you for sharing. Keep it up, look forward to your videos!
This set up with a few changes is what I use for 2 gun and 3 gun competitions. Actually a chest rig system would be better for the run and gun style of these competitions but I enjoy going with what I learned a long time ago.
Symmetry: it’s true. I wore these load carriers in basic training as well as in my first unit. If you were running heavy on one side it made a day at the range rather miserable.
the alice lbe is really good. its a basic no nonsense lbe kit. its great for short patrols or even sentry duty. i have a set, and im so far pretty impressed. basic, yeah. but over complication can be a huge problem.
A lot of the mag pouches had a strip that also attached to the upper half of the harness. To help keep them from sagging , and help with the weight . Atleast on the m67 gear. But I swear I've seen it on lc1 etc. But they're often cut off.
vermont Vermont The LC1 had tabs on back to attach to suspenders. The 20 round pouches had straps. A look at olive drab site will show that. FM 21-15 helps too.
The M-67 "shorty" poches had straps that went up to the rings on the suspenders to help with the weight, the short lived 30 round M-67 pouches (seen in photos of GIs in Vietnam in summer 1972) also had those straps, (I have an original pair of both these types) When they came out with the LC-1 30 round pouches they eliminated that strap and just put a tab with grommet for the hook of the suspender to attach to.
@@docback63 I have a M67 30 round pouch as well with the strap cut off.
The M-67 pistol belt, the "Davis" belt sucked. The buckle would come undone...and usually at the worst possible time. The "H" suspenders are still good, and I like them almost better than the "Y"suspenders. The M-67 Buttpack (nylon) was never adopted by the Army, the Grunts in Nam by that time were basically humping everything on their rucks and the Buttpack (M-56/61) had pretty much fallen into dis-use over there. The Marines DID procure and use the M-67 nylon buttpack however.
The Army had a "field training Pack" in the early 1980s. Looked like what you've got there, with D rings on the back that hooked to the hooks on the suspenders....not as good as the M-67 which had nylon tabs with grommet holes...the D rings always seem to turn sideways and slide in the suspender hooks, unless you tape the hell out of them.
Footnote: I know a guy who was in the Army at Fort Bragg in 1972 and he says everybody was looking around for an M-61 Buttpack, they were all the rage then
AWESOME FACT BASED INFO SIR!! I LOVE READING BOUT SHIT LIKE THIS, THANX!!
I WAS AT FT BRAGG THAT YEAR. EVERYTHING ALL ON POINT. FUCK THAT PLASTIC SHIT LOL. STAY FROSTY BROTHER
Does the m61 buttpack hook onto Y harnesses?
@@dawsonharris2357 Yes, it will attach to the Y harness.
I preferred the 'H' harness as you could hook the back straps to the pistol/web belt just above/behind your canteens and the bearing weight was in shear and directly distributed to your shoulders and you didn't get the 'fish' mouths or bouncing canteens.
Just recently picked up an M67 butt pack that can be shoulder worn instead of on my web belt. I need that space in between my canteens for my old issue box IFAK.
I mix m56, m67, lc1, lc2, etc. I actually like the m56 stuff. The m67 suspenders are nice, but the rear hooks for an upper buttpack are kinda pointless.
vermont Vermont They're great to carry the rolled up poncho or a M56 butt pack.
The rear hooks on the upper part of the m67 harness are for a sleeping system carrier in which you carry a poncho liner and poncho.
Joey Goguen The M67 butt pack was made to be carried on back of M67 suspenders. I never found one so I make do with other butt packs.
@@gijr2003 i'm just saying there's a m67 sleep system carrier which is supposed to be carried on the shoulder area of the m67 harness you could carry a buttpack if you wanted but the hooks are for the sleep system roll.
Joey Goguen Really? So why did they make the M67 butt pack? It has special loops for the suspender straps. Like the ALICE pack, you can put any damn thing you want on it. Look up MLCE. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mlce03.jpg
Where did they wear the pistol?
been looking for a good buttpack. I dont want to use the rothco one. where'd you get yours?
This video makes me feel old
Me too
@@imnotsmart99 Me 3
@@bags4930 Me 4
Me 5?
All true.
Where can i find a buttpack?
Gordon: ebay or just Google M61/M67 butt pack. I just bought an NOS M67 from claysmilitary (ebay) for $24.98 + shipping. Came to around $32 and some change. There are plenty of the older models out there though + the straps for the shoulder carry.
@@lionelburns6317 ok
Could you have both Mag pouches on one side, depending if you fire with left or right hand. Easy to get to for a mag change.
Y harness sucked because it pinches the shoulders and the h harness doesnt this comes from someone who wore a y harness for years in the army
The Introverted Californian agree
Roger that. I bought my own H harness and used it instead of the Y issue. Better load hook points if you're running two canteens too.
H suspenders were the best before PASGT flak vest came along. Y suspenders were meant to be worn with the flak jacket. When I was in the USAF I didn't get individual-issue LBE for _operational readiness exercises_ (i.e. pretending stateside base is a forward air base, working out of pretend bunker tents then launching combat sorties that way), so I bought my own H suspenders and web belt, mainly to better hang the issued gas mask, hip carrier, and water canteen. Prior experience with the basic LBE stemming from Army ROTC in the Philippines.
Don't discount this gear type ,modern gear is designed to be delivered to a combat zone and not walk like say a modern militia would be doing
Carry an extra 200 rounds in your butt pack
And as canteens empty, put empty canteens in butt pack. Fill canteen pouches with full mag's
With green duct tape , or tie off with 550 cord