My academic heart bursts with a video like this!! Thank you so much for this!! It's very comforting, the community definitely needs more critical theories
Yes! I wish more people would discuss this. So much of what is discussed in Wicca (et al) seems to be happening without ever really looking at the wealth of info that is out there outside of the bubble of pagan books. Conversely I think we rely too much on pop psychology without looking at power dynamics and inclusion in coven/teacher settings and I see a lot of harm happening because of this. Staying relevant and mindful of the time we live in is important - if we only look at theory of the past, outdated teaching models or shoddy models of leadership, we get locked in a particular framework and become stagnant. What was “acceptable” as a leadership dynamic 30 years ago isn’t likely to work with a new generation of students or students or even be considered healthy these days - especially if we want a group dynamic that doesn’t just reflect ourselves back at us.
As someone with a degree in religious studies I love this kind of talk, but there are not many people in my circles who 'get' the type of reading I do.
Yay! Talking at the innernet!! Edit: Not for nothing, but I remember being in high school way back in the late 90's, reading about how witches\Wiccans (as back then there wasn't too much differentiation) were normal people & everywhere! I mean, they're doctors & lawyers & architects & anthropologists & brain surgeons.... Somehow, no Wiccans were line cooks or construction workers or grocery clerks or...you get the gist. Although I'm not involved with a lineated tradition right now, it is *still* a concern of mine, that because I hold no academic degrees I won't be seen as focused/smart/successful enough for acceptance & initiation.
Unsurprisingly, I loved this video. One thing I'd add, in a similar vein to what you've already said, would be that I've found resources on critical reading, critical thinking, and metacognition super helpful--especially because they can prime people with the skills needed to engage with those other, harder texts. A lot of metacognition stuff is available online for free, too, which is a huge boon as far as accessibility is concerned. (And shoutout to Durkheim! As a TA, I once dragged an undergrad philosophy of religion class through a discussion of "The Elementary Forms of Religious Life" because we'd made it 2/3rds of the way through the semester without actually stopping to try to define what religion was.)
This is awesome! For anyone interested in the nerdy philosophical theology end, I’d recommend Catherine Keller, particularly The Cloud of the Impossible. She’s officially a “Christian” theologian, but her work with Judith Butler, Deleuze, Whitehead, Derrida, etc.-and all from a deeply informed, very leftwing, liberationist perspective-has been vital for my own practice and growth.
PhD here but accessibility is my jam. Here are a few suggestions off the top of my head for anyone who is infinitely curious, but cannot or does not want to read complex books or articles... The BBC has the amazing History of Ideas series which you can watch youtube. TED talks are also a great source for accessible introductions, and sometimes even accessible deep-dives into truly complex theories and issues. Also, there are a wealth of free online exhibitions, some of which deal with occulty stuff. Dancing with Witches, for example, is a great way in to thinking about portrayals of witchcraft in literature and art.
I attended seminary for 2 years and it was deeply disappointing. To supplement my "education" I read critical race theory, Black and Native liberation theology, queer and feminist theology. I also attended as many interfaith and racial/gender justice events as I could. This made me a better community member, a better witch, and a better student (and also reinforced the schools' decision not to give me financial aid, which is the #1 reason why I dropped out).
I have initiated a number of dyslexic people so I intentionally keep my reading list short. I think I have my *essential* reading list down to about three books. I also have an extended reading list. I’m currently reading an introductory book on Wicca (because people ask me for recommendations) and the theology section annoyed me so much that I started writing in the margins. This is unheard of - I am not the kind of person who does that - but it was the only way to relieve my feelings about it. That said, the exercises in it are very good (no irate marginalia there).
Human resources training in the corporate world really prepared me for coven leadership, but a lot of people find that idea distasteful. It shouldn't be, because as you say, it readies us for inclusion and diversity, adapting to different learning styles, how to approach uncomfortable conversations and so much more. Yes please, let's teach leadership skills and pedagogy to coven facilitators going forward!
The "Great Courses" series of audio lectures is a wonderful way to explore archeology, history, history of religion, etc, to find areas to explore more fully in written texts. It's also a great way to productively fill those empty hours on the road, for example. You can find these works through Audible or the Great Courses site itself.
Interestingly, I was having a conversation with a colleague this morning about the accessibility of texts and academic writing for a broader audience, so I love that this fell into my feed today! Completely agree with the need for a wide range of texts on a wide range of subjects (including critical theoretical perspectives).
As someone who's only curiously peeking into witchcraft academically from a distance, I cannot imagine how a witch could get stuck or bored with a practice that encompasses so many different things to learn! This video made it seem more so overwhelming with the thought of going Even Further with extra "non-witchy" stuff to improve on boggles my uneducated mind lol
I'm a mature student at my local university, studying for a B.A. in Anglophone Studies & Communication Science and a lot of the critical reading I've had to do for my literature courses, as well as the social science/ communication theory/ ethnography I've had to do for the other half of my degree have really enriched my witchcraft practice, as well as being fascinating in their own right. I'm thinking of writing a term paper about Scottish folklore, superstitions and witchcraft in Robert Burns' Tam O'Shanter, just because I'm a huge nerd! :)
I have found my religious studies degree has been SO influential on my path! Especially where one of my professors has degrees in philosophy. I also Double majored in English Literature - and English Literary Theory influences my path at times. I think the text that REALLY influenced my practice AND my degree was: Method in Theology by Bernard Lonergan (this was from the religious studies class that is only required for majors and honors so it was just six of us and the professor. It was dense and confusing and intense but it really made me look at theory and method in a different light and how interdisciplinary work is very important). Lonergan was Christian and this was written from the Christian perspective. And it was not just this book in a vacuum that did it - I am still not great at incredibly academic books - even with a bachelor of arts in two of the most book-heavy heady disciplines. I don't think it was quite the same without the class, and such a small class at that, discussions and insights that were raised. For example discussions of the scientific method and how natural sciences, math, engineering, the liberal arts, the social sciences, fine arts... we are all striving to ultimately answer the same questions of why are we here, where do we come from, where are we going, and what do we do while we are here. No one discipline can answer each question in it's entirety and that if we worked together and brought all of the disciplines together we may finally be able to see the answers we seek. THAT is what stuck with me.
It’s cool seeing you and Samuel and Yvonne discussing this in the comments. I got my degree in Film so I’m not quite on that level of understanding, but I did get a taste of Bell Hooks in a Humanities course at university. I will have to revisit her work sometime and check out the rest that is recommended in the comments!
Thank you Thorn for this video. It reminded me of how glad I am to be a solitary practitioner, free to follow the guidance of my familiars and not be pressured to conform to anyone else opinions. We curmudgeons don't play well with others.
Accessibility as far as one's own reading level or a lack of analytical/ syntactical reading skills is something that has stood out to me the most in terms of being new to witchcraft (but not new to spirituality or deep learning) and seeking out high quality info in these spaces. Most of what's being shared and circulated by modern (read: younger) practitioners in the community is just like how you described, reworking the same basics without much expansion. I thought it was just me getting older and feeling disdain around social media's influence on the next generation but this kind of accessibility is absolutely a factor, too. As someone with a graduate level education (clinical psychology with an emphasis on bioethics) and an insatiable desire for information since age 3, it's definitely something I had taken for granted. I simply couldn't imagine jumping into spiritual studies or any topic without those skills, but yeah that's what most people do and have done. It's nice to see the conversation around bridging the gap and making things more accessible in that regard. Looking forward to your new book and its accompanying reading list.
sometimes I forget many people don't have the money or access to books. i am lucky to buy or have access to almost any book on wicca while some younger people or adults cant get the books. i agree people should read on the history more
100% yes -- loved hearing your thoughts on this. I teach theory -- feminist theory + theorizing sexuality mostly -- and there are so many ideas I've learned reading theory that I find indispensable to how I think about my spirituality and magical practice. I have a "Foucault shelf;" a great book about Foucault's work that many find more digestible than Foucault's own writing is "Michel Foucault: Beyond Structuralism and Hermeneutics" by Dreyfus and Rabinow -- it is an "academic book" but it explains his concepts, terminology, and projects well. I have also read, and teach, bell hooks' work. Durkheim and Bourdieu I admittedly haven't touched since grad school but they're certainly important and useful! I feel like reading theory is a good way to avoid 'reinventing the wheel' in Pagan/magic communities. Issues that many of us are concerned with -- power, exclusion, representation, gender, the power of words and discourse -- have been theorized for decades and decades. There is so much wonderful material to draw on. Thanks for sharing. ❤😊
Excellent video! Having been involved in academia, teaching, education, etc, power dynamics, social structure etc is really necessary to survive in any group setting. Having been through all of this, I am also turned off by having to deal with these exact issues. Racism, misogyny, elitism, social expectations and punishment all comes into play. That is why for me personally, I would rather do my path as a solitary. Again, this has it's limitations, but a perfect example is Austin Osman Spare. He chose to do it alone!!!I admire him!!
This is an excellent video Thorn and I completely agree. I’d recommend people to start with the Beginner’s Guide to Foucault though as it is more digestible. And I’m happy to say that my Wiccan teaching methods are informed by writers like Pierre Bourdieu, Valerie Walkerdine, Lev Vygotsky (yeah I have a postgraduate certificate in education) and my Pagan theology is social constructivist - like much of the rest of my approach to everything. You can also find the ideas of these writers referenced in my books. So I would argue that if people were going to buy yet another witchcraft book, it should be at least one of mine. And I am definitely planning to get your new book, as it sounds awesome.
There are some awesome graphic novel-style guides available, too, to individual writers, and also subjects as a whole. These saved my butt my first years in school.
I mean to say that, as we change culturally-new language, new ideas about what’s normal, what’s acceptable, as the social landscape changes, etc etc-we have to revisit our texts.
Would this be called "Woke Witchcraft"? Wokecraft? I think it's interesting to apply the Postmodern critical theory lens to a modern initiatory practice, I'd like to see how this changes or effects the magickal perspective.
A foundational quote for me: "Precisely because the plane of immanence is prephilosophical and does not immediately take effect with concepts, it implies a sort of groping experimentation and its layout resorts to measures that are not very respectable, rational, or reasonable. These measures belong to the order of dreams, of pathological processes, esoteric experiences, drunkenness, and excess. We head for the horizon, on the plane of immanence, and we return with bloodshot eyes, yet they are the eyes of the mind. Even Descartes had his dream. To think is always to follow the witch’s flight." - Deleuze, Guattari 'What is philosophy?' D&G have been integral to my development in more than one way. My thinking and spirituality wouldn't be much without Anti-Oedipus as a foundational text. Concepts like Foucault's "Limit experience" have also made its way into my actual magical method too. An academic I love to watch for is Inna Semetsky - she has done quite a bit of writing on semiotics, jung, and tarot. But these days her work seems to be much more of a Deleuzian education theorist and is writing about "Edusemiotics" (which also features writing on tarot too) which sounds like is something up your alley. Pedagogy of the Oppressed was one of the first critical books I read and it has shaped the way I view the world in terms of power dynamics/discourse. Another book I enjoyed is Joshua Ramey's "Hermetic Deleuze" which i enjoyed a lot but a friend who knows deleuze better than I wasn't impressed so take that for what you will lol.
@@soupsonme I’m confused - which of the people in this comment subthread is like your boss? The advocates of inclusiveness or the privileged one who thinks there’s too much of it?
My academic heart bursts with a video like this!! Thank you so much for this!! It's very comforting, the community definitely needs more critical theories
Yes to all of that 👍
I love how you're always pushing us not to just be better witches, but better humans.
Yes! I wish more people would discuss this. So much of what is discussed in Wicca (et al) seems to be happening without ever really looking at the wealth of info that is out there outside of the bubble of pagan books. Conversely I think we rely too much on pop psychology without looking at power dynamics and inclusion in coven/teacher settings and I see a lot of harm happening because of this. Staying relevant and mindful of the time we live in is important - if we only look at theory of the past, outdated teaching models or shoddy models of leadership, we get locked in a particular framework and become stagnant. What was “acceptable” as a leadership dynamic 30 years ago isn’t likely to work with a new generation of students or students or even be considered healthy these days - especially if we want a group dynamic that doesn’t just reflect ourselves back at us.
As someone with a degree in religious studies I love this kind of talk, but there are not many people in my circles who 'get' the type of reading I do.
Yay! Talking at the innernet!!
Edit: Not for nothing, but I remember being in high school way back in the late 90's, reading about how witches\Wiccans (as back then there wasn't too much differentiation) were normal people & everywhere! I mean, they're doctors & lawyers & architects & anthropologists & brain surgeons.... Somehow, no Wiccans were line cooks or construction workers or grocery clerks or...you get the gist. Although I'm not involved with a lineated tradition right now, it is *still* a concern of mine, that because I hold no academic degrees I won't be seen as focused/smart/successful enough for acceptance & initiation.
Unsurprisingly, I loved this video. One thing I'd add, in a similar vein to what you've already said, would be that I've found resources on critical reading, critical thinking, and metacognition super helpful--especially because they can prime people with the skills needed to engage with those other, harder texts. A lot of metacognition stuff is available online for free, too, which is a huge boon as far as accessibility is concerned.
(And shoutout to Durkheim! As a TA, I once dragged an undergrad philosophy of religion class through a discussion of "The Elementary Forms of Religious Life" because we'd made it 2/3rds of the way through the semester without actually stopping to try to define what religion was.)
This is awesome! For anyone interested in the nerdy philosophical theology end, I’d recommend Catherine Keller, particularly The Cloud of the Impossible. She’s officially a “Christian” theologian, but her work with Judith Butler, Deleuze, Whitehead, Derrida, etc.-and all from a deeply informed, very leftwing, liberationist perspective-has been vital for my own practice and growth.
Philosophy, psychology, and sociology are absolutely necessary to understand being a magick human.
PhD here but accessibility is my jam. Here are a few suggestions off the top of my head for anyone who is infinitely curious, but cannot or does not want to read complex books or articles... The BBC has the amazing History of Ideas series which you can watch youtube. TED talks are also a great source for accessible introductions, and sometimes even accessible deep-dives into truly complex theories and issues. Also, there are a wealth of free online exhibitions, some of which deal with occulty stuff. Dancing with Witches, for example, is a great way in to thinking about portrayals of witchcraft in literature and art.
I attended seminary for 2 years and it was deeply disappointing. To supplement my "education" I read critical race theory, Black and Native liberation theology, queer and feminist theology. I also attended as many interfaith and racial/gender justice events as I could. This made me a better community member, a better witch, and a better student (and also reinforced the schools' decision not to give me financial aid, which is the #1 reason why I dropped out).
I have initiated a number of dyslexic people so I intentionally keep my reading list short. I think I have my *essential* reading list down to about three books. I also have an extended reading list.
I’m currently reading an introductory book on Wicca (because people ask me for recommendations) and the theology section annoyed me so much that I started writing in the margins. This is unheard of - I am not the kind of person who does that - but it was the only way to relieve my feelings about it. That said, the exercises in it are very good (no irate marginalia there).
Mary Daly. Wickedary. Shaped my whole approach to witchcraft.
Human resources training in the corporate world really prepared me for coven leadership, but a lot of people find that idea distasteful. It shouldn't be, because as you say, it readies us for inclusion and diversity, adapting to different learning styles, how to approach uncomfortable conversations and so much more. Yes please, let's teach leadership skills and pedagogy to coven facilitators going forward!
The "Great Courses" series of audio lectures is a wonderful way to explore archeology, history, history of religion, etc, to find areas to explore more fully in written texts. It's also a great way to productively fill those empty hours on the road, for example. You can find these works through Audible or the Great Courses site itself.
Interestingly, I was having a conversation with a colleague this morning about the accessibility of texts and academic writing for a broader audience, so I love that this fell into my feed today! Completely agree with the need for a wide range of texts on a wide range of subjects (including critical theoretical perspectives).
I recommend the book "The Alchemist" for this purpose. It is fiction, but it holds many life lessons and spiritual awakenings...
I had to click through 5 or 6 ads to get to the end of this video. It's worth it; I just hope you're getting a slice of the ad pie.
This is such a great conversation, thank you for this! So much to dig into here.
As someone who's only curiously peeking into witchcraft academically from a distance, I cannot imagine how a witch could get stuck or bored with a practice that encompasses so many different things to learn! This video made it seem more so overwhelming with the thought of going Even Further with extra "non-witchy" stuff to improve on boggles my uneducated mind lol
I'm a mature student at my local university, studying for a B.A. in Anglophone Studies & Communication Science and a lot of the critical reading I've had to do for my literature courses, as well as the social science/ communication theory/ ethnography I've had to do for the other half of my degree have really enriched my witchcraft practice, as well as being fascinating in their own right. I'm thinking of writing a term paper about Scottish folklore, superstitions and witchcraft in Robert Burns' Tam O'Shanter, just because I'm a huge nerd! :)
I have found my religious studies degree has been SO influential on my path! Especially where one of my professors has degrees in philosophy. I also Double majored in English Literature - and English Literary Theory influences my path at times. I think the text that REALLY influenced my practice AND my degree was:
Method in Theology by Bernard Lonergan (this was from the religious studies class that is only required for majors and honors so it was just six of us and the professor. It was dense and confusing and intense but it really made me look at theory and method in a different light and how interdisciplinary work is very important).
Lonergan was Christian and this was written from the Christian perspective. And it was not just this book in a vacuum that did it - I am still not great at incredibly academic books - even with a bachelor of arts in two of the most book-heavy heady disciplines. I don't think it was quite the same without the class, and such a small class at that, discussions and insights that were raised. For example discussions of the scientific method and how natural sciences, math, engineering, the liberal arts, the social sciences, fine arts... we are all striving to ultimately answer the same questions of why are we here, where do we come from, where are we going, and what do we do while we are here. No one discipline can answer each question in it's entirety and that if we worked together and brought all of the disciplines together we may finally be able to see the answers we seek.
THAT is what stuck with me.
Such a great video! As a current college student, this was relatable and so on point!
It’s cool seeing you and Samuel and Yvonne discussing this in the comments. I got my degree in Film so I’m not quite on that level of understanding, but I did get a taste of Bell Hooks in a Humanities course at university. I will have to revisit her work sometime and check out the rest that is recommended in the comments!
I revisited this video today & really appreciated th iui s discussion
Thank you Thorn for this video. It reminded me of how glad I am to be a solitary practitioner, free to follow the guidance of my familiars and not be pressured to conform to anyone else opinions. We curmudgeons don't play well with others.
Accessibility as far as one's own reading level or a lack of analytical/ syntactical reading skills is something that has stood out to me the most in terms of being new to witchcraft (but not new to spirituality or deep learning) and seeking out high quality info in these spaces. Most of what's being shared and circulated by modern (read: younger) practitioners in the community is just like how you described, reworking the same basics without much expansion. I thought it was just me getting older and feeling disdain around social media's influence on the next generation but this kind of accessibility is absolutely a factor, too. As someone with a graduate level education (clinical psychology with an emphasis on bioethics) and an insatiable desire for information since age 3, it's definitely something I had taken for granted. I simply couldn't imagine jumping into spiritual studies or any topic without those skills, but yeah that's what most people do and have done. It's nice to see the conversation around bridging the gap and making things more accessible in that regard. Looking forward to your new book and its accompanying reading list.
sometimes I forget many people don't have the money or access to books. i am lucky to buy or have access to almost any book on wicca while some younger people or adults cant get the books. i agree people should read on the history more
I covered a lot of this in my sociology/anthropology undergraduate education and I took a lot of it for granted at the time.
Critical thinking vs Common sense.....
100% yes -- loved hearing your thoughts on this. I teach theory -- feminist theory + theorizing sexuality mostly -- and there are so many ideas I've learned reading theory that I find indispensable to how I think about my spirituality and magical practice. I have a "Foucault shelf;" a great book about Foucault's work that many find more digestible than Foucault's own writing is "Michel Foucault: Beyond Structuralism and Hermeneutics" by Dreyfus and Rabinow -- it is an "academic book" but it explains his concepts, terminology, and projects well. I have also read, and teach, bell hooks' work. Durkheim and Bourdieu I admittedly haven't touched since grad school but they're certainly important and useful!
I feel like reading theory is a good way to avoid 'reinventing the wheel' in Pagan/magic communities. Issues that many of us are concerned with -- power, exclusion, representation, gender, the power of words and discourse -- have been theorized for decades and decades. There is so much wonderful material to draw on. Thanks for sharing. ❤😊
Excellent video! Having been involved in academia, teaching, education, etc, power dynamics, social structure etc is really necessary to survive in any group setting. Having been through all of this, I am also turned off by having to deal with these exact issues. Racism, misogyny, elitism, social expectations and punishment all comes into play. That is why for me personally, I would rather do my path as a solitary. Again, this has it's limitations, but a perfect example is Austin Osman Spare. He chose to do it alone!!!I admire him!!
What a fantastic conversation
Well done! I enjoyed this very much.
LOVE this vid!
This is an excellent video Thorn and I completely agree. I’d recommend people to start with the Beginner’s Guide to Foucault though as it is more digestible.
And I’m happy to say that my Wiccan teaching methods are informed by writers like Pierre Bourdieu, Valerie Walkerdine, Lev Vygotsky (yeah I have a postgraduate certificate in education) and my Pagan theology is social constructivist - like much of the rest of my approach to everything. You can also find the ideas of these writers referenced in my books. So I would argue that if people were going to buy yet another witchcraft book, it should be at least one of mine.
And I am definitely planning to get your new book, as it sounds awesome.
There are some awesome graphic novel-style guides available, too, to individual writers, and also subjects as a whole. These saved my butt my first years in school.
@@drawingKenaz yes that’s what I was thinking of; there are a couple of really good ones about Foucault’s ideas. There’s also a Walter Benjamin one.
Rewrite for a new political climate? You just lost me.
I mean to say that, as we change culturally-new language, new ideas about what’s normal, what’s acceptable, as the social landscape changes, etc etc-we have to revisit our texts.
who cares if you’re lost? then stay behind! stay lost.
Would this be called "Woke Witchcraft"? Wokecraft? I think it's interesting to apply the Postmodern critical theory lens to a modern initiatory practice, I'd like to see how this changes or effects the magickal perspective.
A foundational quote for me: "Precisely because the plane of immanence is prephilosophical and does not immediately take effect with concepts, it implies a sort of groping experimentation and its layout resorts to measures that are not very respectable, rational, or reasonable. These measures belong to the order of dreams, of pathological processes, esoteric experiences, drunkenness, and excess. We head for the horizon, on the plane of immanence, and we return with bloodshot eyes, yet they are the eyes of the mind. Even Descartes had his dream. To think is always to follow the witch’s flight." - Deleuze, Guattari 'What is philosophy?'
D&G have been integral to my development in more than one way. My thinking and spirituality wouldn't be much without Anti-Oedipus as a foundational text. Concepts like Foucault's "Limit experience" have also made its way into my actual magical method too.
An academic I love to watch for is Inna Semetsky - she has done quite a bit of writing on semiotics, jung, and tarot. But these days her work seems to be much more of a Deleuzian education theorist and is writing about "Edusemiotics" (which also features writing on tarot too) which sounds like is something up your alley.
Pedagogy of the Oppressed was one of the first critical books I read and it has shaped the way I view the world in terms of power dynamics/discourse.
Another book I enjoyed is Joshua Ramey's "Hermetic Deleuze" which i enjoyed a lot but a friend who knows deleuze better than I wasn't impressed so take that for what you will lol.
The obsession with inclusivity is getting ridiculous...
Says a privileged person
I mean we need to include everyone. Gender, sexual orientation, race, culture, etc. Why are you saying it’s ridiculous? Am I missing something?
Ugh why is my boss in these comments
@@soupsonme I’m confused - which of the people in this comment subthread is like your boss? The advocates of inclusiveness or the privileged one who thinks there’s too much of it?
@@YvonneAburrow the one letting their privilege speak for them.