F1 Fastest and Slowest Downshifters - Gasly vs Kimi
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2021
- In general, Gasly Tsunoda Stroll are the 3 fastest downshifters and Alfa Romeo's two drivers are the slowest, among current drivers of cause.
F1 Onboard Telemetry - Спорт
In general, among current drivers Gasly Tsunoda Stroll are the 3 fastest downshifters and Alfa Romeo's two drivers are the slowest.
In T3, Gasly downshifts and then turns the wheel. Kimi downshifts while turning. From braking to 2nd gear, Gasly spends 1.25s while Kimi spends 2s, a 0.75s deficit. Interestingly, they have exactly the same deficit in T4.
Among current drivers, Stroll is the fastest in terms of from braking to the first downshift. His onboard of braking always sounds like he brakes and downshifts at the same time. His teammate Vettel on the other hand downshifts a lot slower, even though they're driving the same car (well, almost the same).
This is of cause all down to the cars' characteristic and the drivers' preference with the latter taking the determining role. Track condition and regulation changes as well, if viewed from a broader perspective.
These comparisons are purely based on visual analysis of the audio waveform and frequency spectrum. There're inevitably some tiny inaccuraries but they can be ignored because the idea of this video is not to measure brake or downshift point to 0.01s, but to give a general image.
BTW, on this particular case, TV footage telemetry is actually not a reliable source for analysis due to the 10fps low refresh rate, but this is the best we can get as normal F1 audience, unless of cause you have access to teams' telemetry which has a hell lot higher frequency, which can be seen in one of my earlier vids: ua-cam.com/video/Ejga69A17VI/v-deo.html
It is certainly interesting how different drivers handle downshift proceedures in cornering approach .
But as I see it you judge your shiftactivity by when the gear is engaged not by when the driver requests the gearchange !
The gear will only engage after the car has decelerated enough to prevent the car dragging the wheels due to car speed too high for the chosen gear.
To me your analysis just highlights very different driving techniques displayed b the drivers :
Kimi , Seb, Tonio carry a lot more speed deeper into the corner thus the belated engagement of 2nd gear to avoid a kickback when engaging 2nd at too high a vehicle speed.
The interesting bit would therefore be to see a vehicle speed overlay + time and you would seebhow different these guys make laptime.They use different lines on entry , travel different distance through zu he corner , have different aex speeds and different steering angles at almost any point of the corner.
The implied conclusion you discovered downshift talent or downshift skilllevels could not be further from reality .
Its just those "quick shifters "follow a very traditional discrete braking /downshift /cornering technique with lower entry speeds whereas Kimi ,Seb etc enter the corner at highr speed but actually have a slower apexspeed.
@@marcush.1901 I think you kinda misunderstood it. This video is NOT to draw any conclusion of who has better downshifting talent or skills. As I pointed out in pinned comment, drivers style plays the key role in this, but I'm not comparing who has a better style. This video is simply for what the title says: fastest downshifts compared to slowest. Downshift fast doesn't necessarily cornering faster, downshift slow doesn't necessiarly mean cornering slow.
Yes I judge the shifting point by its engaging sound, but it's accurate enough unless you care about the millisecond difference between drivers request and ECU's engaging.
@@yelistener again , the gear can be requested , but the gearbox will only selectvthe gear if the speed of the car does allow it to be engaged .
So this has no (!) Indication who is demanding earlier downshifts
its a function of vehicle speed diminishing.
And your wording does in fact imply you are making a judgdment , as you draw paralells between t4 times and downshift speeds in your text.
And this is what I objected to.
@@marcush.1901 what a load of nonsensical gibberish
@@juzh1238 lol you idiot, it is like this, modern semiautomatic gearbox will not allow you to downshift too early
“Downshifting is more like a hobby for me. So, obviously, I don’t need to do it if I don’t want.” -Most recent Ferrari World Champion
most recent.
i still dont know how thats possible man
@@abwk6537 red car bad
@@abwk6537 the currently most recent Ferrari F1 World Champion is the 2007 Championship winner, Kimi Raikkonen
edit: the joke is that Kimi said that line
@@aoyuki1409 crazy bro, kinda think he got the joke before you had to specify 🤯
@@cianmellerick177 yh i did. lol
but anyway
Kimi has PTSD for all those Merc engines exploding, when he was at Mclaren
Hahaha
Ah, the 03-05 McLaren, extremely fast, but engine will go on strike any minute.
It cost him the world championship in 2005
@@yubakadi217 and also 03
And according to Kimi 06 was a good car with a shit engine. Considering that 07 was just an evolution, the 06 car with a nice engine might also have been at the front
Still feel heartbroken when i remember 03 and 05 seasons. Kimi was the best on the grid but that derm merc
legend kimi . just needs one gearbox per season
What he needs are the gloves & steering wheel!
@@lordmahaveer6307 Yeah, he is crazy without gloves and steering wheel.
ua-cam.com/video/3vzosqhFKIM/v-deo.html
@@lordmahaveer6307 and the drink, but it is not always on
@@MurihSantos copy, slow button on
@@lordmahaveer6307 we are checking
Kimi's downshift is every gearbox engineer dreams
Nope, he just loves understeering turning with mild engine brake on the rear tires, as this is the help of making slow downshifting. Making fast downshifting does not damage gearbox.
Fast downshifting helps in rotating with aggressive engine brake, oversteer.
but exit in q1
Does downshifting slower help with gearbox health and longevity?
@@yslrx it makes the engine rev less, so less engine wear, I guess it's less wear on the gearbox by consequence.
But unless the gearbox is really sensitive, the majority of the difference is on the laptime. As we can tell, one drive was clearly faster throughout his career
kimi, has the smoothest transition, also almost seems hes not scared to downshift slower as if he feels the car better...
Looks like it induces more understeer as well, less engine braking on turn-in. Interesting style
@@aisu8481 yaaaaas def you can compare to stroll. As he wiggles and struggles out of the corner since he downshifted soooo fast. Kimi fenced it! Let’s the engine sort of catch up better.
@@Agingisachoice yep, from this alone you can see why teams struggle to please both drivers, and why big regulation changes like the engine layouts can bury one driver and see another rise.
You might be able to please a driver’s style, but make the car slower in the process - tough to fully adapt when someone else possesses the style naturally.
So many parameters to this sport
This is old school F1 driving for you, it was not uncommon 10 years ago to leave the final down shift right into the apex the cars just went faster that way. Its interesting though that GIO also has the same style so either the car does like that or Kimi has been coaching him,
@@auwz66 could also be both too
Raikkonen learned this in the V10 era, with fewer gears and engines running at the actual redline. With those cars you do a Gasly stile downshift and you spin out immediately or break the gearbox, cause you are basically moneyshifting.
Maybe the alpha tauri is that much better on the brakes than the Alfa
Lies again? Take Meds
Tell that to all those that machine gunned down the gears in the v10 era...
well they're braking while downshifting, so either way they're not moneyshifting..
You don't know that
You just try to be cool
gasly is really aggressive in his driving style, he also likes to send the car into the corner without braking, like in turn 9 in austria or turn 11 in Hungary this year
Isn't he smoother on the wheel though compared to like leclerc, verstappen, hamilton? He doesn't seem to throw the car into the corners as much, his style is more like smoothly turning it in maintaining as much grip and momentum as possible kinda like nico rosberg.
@@Mikeschuurnan what's your point?
Explains why he struggled at red bull maybe, car built for max who brakes earlier than most
@@jaydunn2898 it wasn't built for max but he prolly could adapt to it easier since gasly is much more on the edge
Unlike many racing classes, downshifting and braking are discrete. In other words, you don't use downshifting as part of your deceleration. All you're doing is setting yourself for the correct gear out of the corner.
I am sure it's no coincidence that the two slowest are from Alfa and the fastest from AlphaTauri, probably has to do with the car setup/engine/geabox.
Well, i don't know others but kimi does this in every car he touches
@@calexito9448 thats because in older cars, it was necessary to downshift slower so u would generate more engine breaking to save more brakes, and gearbox. Kimi is a dinosaur afterall...
@@Alex-us8cs This is definitely a factor, some of these old habits are also visible in nando's driving style.
Well I think Kimi has little more understanding of what he's doing than you. Im not 100% sure who knows better, you guys or Kimi.
@@Alex-us8cs yes, but downshifting slowly decreases the engine brake effect.
The way Kimi nursed that gearbox is just so masterful. What a legend.
It's incredible to see the differences between the Alfas and the Alphas!
Clearly Gio has been influenced by the presence of the veteran Kimi who really stays in tune with the car throughout the turn and can therefore squeeze a bit more speed out of it when exiting the turn.
or they both drive the same thrown-together racket of a car, and the mechanics say the car will exparode if they ds 2 fast
Theres the possibility that the no 2 drivers are picking up downshift styles from the no 1s here, but it seems more likely that the car is the main factor. Would be interesting to see all the drivers throttle profile through corners.
I find it crazy how they’re braking at the same point still when it feels like Gasly is using the gears to slow him down also and Kimi is doing it a lot more “sensitively” and reducing gearbox wear.
Neither of them are downshifting to deaccelerate, the brakes already did it . They just need to get to the right gear to have maximum traction out of the corner.
@@cd852 are we sure braking and downshifting isn’t quicker than braking alone? I don’t see you stopping if you do all the braking in one gear. It must contribute somewhat. At my last track day I found it easier to slow down, even from a higher speed, when I was shifting from 3rd to 2nd as opposed to doing all the braking in 2nd. Even when I coming up to the same corner slower at a different part of the lap.
But that is probably due to being more committed on the pedal when you’re going quicker. Not saying it’s the same situation at all just to clarify 😂
@@blindgeorged6386 you weren't driving a formula one car with elite carbon fibre brakes . Trust me the brakes deaccelerate the car within milliseconds, faster than the driver can downshift.
@@blindgeorged6386 in a normal road car, downshifting would contribute. Just not in an F1 car
The kimi's soft tyres and gearbox are proud of him. All well in good conditions
i cant see a plus of this fast downshifting, you are on a breaks anyway so whats the difference.
Magnussens lap at Austria 2019 was probably the fastest one I've heard
Where can I find it?
@@hppf768 literally look up Magnussen qualifying lap Austria 2019
You should see this then
ua-cam.com/video/KjSTuVBNxJU/v-deo.html
@@WH22_ still can't find it. Pls help I have dumb
@@eqpoweplus9965 ua-cam.com/video/lWU6tDaG-xg/v-deo.html
Even with shifting, Kimi is like, "eh."
🤔 nah theres no need for changing gears that fast
I don’t think it’s necessarily the drivers techniques I think it’s just how the engine is attuned to the downshifts. Red Bull and Alpha Tauri are probably faster and more effective with the faster downshifts as it seems because some other drivers don’t always do it unless there on a different team. Some of the teams engines would probably break with the aggressive downshifts for a whole 3 hour race. Just a comparison to think about.
they dont race for 3 hours...
@@cakezeef1271 maximum
@@cakezeef1271 1:30 hour -1:50 hour depending on track safety cars vsc's and red flags
The Honda is known to harvest particularly well off-throttle and presumably that effect is only increased by high revs, so it behooves the drivers to shift early and fast to maximize that MGU-H regen
engine braking has more to do with it, i feel; in both alphas, they are breaking in a straight line as much as possible, whereas the alfas are rotating their cars while downshifting towards the apexes. I know in sim racing, i adjust the engine breaking for certain types of turns to get more mechanical grip (not sure how relevant this is but eh).
kimi's slow downshifting is also healthier for the engine. thanks to that he doesn't need to switch power units as often.
Helal la dayı :)
Kimi is super chill even with the downshifts :D
Maybe, that's why he's not that fast 😬
Downshifting is a bit more complicated. It is directly related to engine braking, which is a key to shorter brake distances. The earlier you downshift, the more rpm deceleration engine will have to do for the next downshift, thus increasing braking performance. Sometimes, if you downshift too early the rpm deceleration may be so high, that you lock your rear wheels. Downshift too late and you brake longer and more gradually.
Now take a look at Gasly's corner entry line: he goes for a deeper dive, then makes a sharper turn and after that he is able to get to full throttle sooner.
Kimi, on the other hand, starts turning in earlier, rolls more speed into the corner, but has to make a more gradual throttle up.
So Gasly's style relies on heavier braking and sharper exits, thus faster downshifting. Kimi goes for rolling into corners and that takes more gradual braking approach.
None of this is the right/wrong way, just different styles.
Or i am completely wrong and overanalysing:)
gasly has more minimum speed tho
At the end of the day the braking distance is purely down to the traction you have. Adding engine braking just takes away from the brake pressure you have to apply.
Ordinarily that might be useful toward saving the brakes. But you'd only save the rear brakes, and in modern F1 the rear brakes are already assisted by energy harvesting from the MGU-K anyway, so I don't see a reason to slow shift beyond just nursing the engine.
Early years kimi was actually one of the best shortshifters, I think it has a lot to do with the car
His mclaren kept exploding short shifting bettered his chances at finishing
I just realized the reason. I went and saw every driver's onboard quali for Austria and realized it's more of how much engine braking that car is tuned up for. Gasly and Tsunoda are heavily reliant on engine braking compared to Kimi and GIO here.
More interesting is between Seb and Stoll. Seb is less reliant on engine braking than Stroll, possibly due to steup differences.
How can you identify the amount of engine braking? From the sound? Or are you comparing brake pressure or something?
Edit: Oh you just mean the ones downshifting faster are using more engine braking? I was confused because there is another type of engine braking with these cars, using the MGU-K.
@@zvexevz Yes
well there is always the tradeof of damaging your engine when you use engine breaking too much /downshift too early, thus you push the RPMS up really high, but downshifting certainly plays a major role in any F1 car for breaking
Kimi still has PTSD from blowing engines ;)
Can we just sit back and appreciate that throaty AF downshift by that glorious Honda engine. Good god that is sweet to listen to.
Definitely the best sounding ones on the grid
@@leksasdf No contest imo. I hated and still hate this era compared to what was before it in general not just specifically for noise. That Honda engine gives me the faintest of hope though.
@@kwl189 Honda is leaving F1 next year tho.
Exhaust mics just make the video better!
Actually this is rubish, sound is so not natural
@@ALPHABYTE94 wow...
Of course not... It's like recording yourself singing having the microphone plugged in your colon
@@ALPHABYTE94 Yeah, they do kind of sound like some sort of generic engine noise effect and some whine
Just leave Kimi alone and give him his drink. He knows what he has to do XD
No. No kimi. No. You will not have the drink
Good lord Kimi is a smooth driver, downshifting on the apex while having his drink
I reckon the down shifting is a result of the car rather than the driver. Really interesting analysis. So few focus on this topic.
When you check the rpm you will notice that Gasly keeps the car running at high rpm throughout the turn. It maximizes the braking capability of the car.
Depends on setup doesn't it? There must be a reason why not just one but both Alfa Romeos are the slowest downshifters. Maybe the car doesn't like lots of engine braking, or maybe it has something to do with energy harvesting, idk. I'm no expert, but I know enough to know that these guys know a hell of a lot more about how these cars work than any of us do.
It's important to remember ta the engine braking doesn't reduce the braking distance. What determines the braking distance is the level of grip of the tires and the brakes are strong enough to keep the tires on that limit of grip.
Downshifting more aggressively can help to preserve the brakes though, because the driver can use a little bit less braking pressure as the engine brake compensate for that.
How aggressive the driver downshift also determines how quickly the car is able to rotate at corner entry, maybe gasly likes his car to rotate more aggressively while Kimi likes a car more stable at the rear so he downshifts more carefully.
Another consequence of downshifting to quickly is that you can increase the wear of the engine because you force it to change its rpm very quickly and also keep a higher average rpm.
So as with everything in racing, downshifting quicker or more slowly has its advantages and disadvantages, and the drivers will try to find a sweet spot where you balance the amount of engine braking, car rotation, engine wear among other things and this is why drivers will downshift in different ways from one another
@@TheLpd1 good analysis, although Kimi driving style he loves oversteer
He gets the weight more to the front by doing so
It's not that simple.. Lots of things going on besides shifting.. it depends on diff setup (coast settings, off throttle lock), depends on how much regen every driver is utilizing on braking, for a specific corner (for example, more regen in that corner, sooner to downshiw , to use inertia to load battery).. and many more things... modern f1 is very complex under the hood
it shows the old habits of the older drivers as that level of downshifting shown by the newer drivers would have cooked an older transmission with all the engine braking
You're looking at the difference between a 25 year old trying to make it to the top, and a 42 year old who's been at the top and just wants to be able to walk away from F1 still in one piece.
Your looking at tryhard and chill guy collecting bag and having fun with sport he loves.
Damn that's a really great video, thanks man !
I don't know exactly what it means in terms of performance, but this is spot on for the comparison
More videos like this. Please!
This is very good for analysis.
The Honda engine makes it even better:)
absolutely orgasmic
just rvprvprvprvp every single downshift
Alpha Tauri use a Ferrari engine I thought?
@@ronan1686 That was a long time ago my man 🤣
@@ronan1686 since 2014 they've only used ferrari engines in 2016, every other season renault and honda
And why doesn't Red Bull with a Honda engine sound the same as the Alpha Tauri?
Gasly qualifying performances have been supreme this season
great channel. keep it up man
Damn the L and R side by side and seperated sound was amazing. Never seen it on any other vid be4
Honestly saving the wear might be worth the 0.02s it costs, especially if you're uncompetitive either way.
doesnt cost any time its just different driving style
@@ProdiFTW Do you get more engine braking from the highest rev ranges? My thinking is, if you have more of a braking effect from 13,000 rpm to 10,000 rpm than you do from 10,000 to 8,000, then it would be beneficial to downshift faster as you would be able to brake later.
@@bdaubry You get more regen from the MGU with more engine braking.
Driving like this could let you take the MGU-H harvesting down a notch.
@@bdaubry You do have more obviously but engine braking is not really a thing in such a race car and in most of the race cars actually. The brakes are so efficient that downshiffting to 2nd or staying in 7th gear during your braking phase would make almost if not 0 difference.
about the MGU regen that coast2coast mentioned tho ive no idea but it might be a thing
@@ProdiFTW If you're braking a car on the limit and then downshift, you will definitely spin. Engine braking is small compared to actual brakes on most cars, but it's significant enough that you need to adjust your driving style to match your downshifting pattern. Similarly, downshifting mid-corner can lead to a spin.
According to the last graph, Yuki is the fastest downshifter. Would have been interesting to compare with same engine suppliers, since this clearly depends on the engine breaking characteristics. AT to RB and AR to Ferrari.
As others have said this has much more to do with how the engine manufacturer/team set up the engine braking to work with the kers and brake pressure bias than in does driver preference/skill
Actually one of my favorite videos. I would’ve never thought you could pick up so much about someone’s style from their shifting.
As a budding audio engineer, this is the coolest analysis of anything F1 related I’ve ever seen.
Kimi saying "he's here because it's his hobby" is no joke. Look how layback kimi downshifting 😂
Mans probably saving his gearbox....and cause he old
Also considering both the alfas are the showest shifters, its probably because of the car
@@willthigpen2181 Exactly, it's more to do with driving style and how the car's made (which impacts driving style). More aggressive downshifting is good if your driving style has aggressive braking, but that isn't always faster and depending on the car there's also limitations on how quickly you can downshift. Aggressive braking is usually slower which is counterintuitive to some.
@@FudoNoShita It is all about driving style.
Fast down shifting at higher revs technically stops the car faster but also disrupts the balance of the car more. Slower down shifting at lower revs is smoother and is a lot better on the car.
F1 is a lot more complicated than that though, so don’t mind me.
“No, no I’m downshifting but is it…is the bottle emptying or not?”
The effort you put in making these videos is really good you are a f1 nerd bro👍🏻
Hamilton at the start of his career was all about braking in top gear and doing all the downshifting at the last minute. Check out his Spa pole in 2007.
u mean 2017
@@zariqeezham9210 I mean 2008
@@davidmccourt6139 " at the start of his career" "-you mean 2017" LULZ
Kimi: slowest downshifter, fastest upshifter by short shifting through the gears (he doesn't do it all the time but he does it a lot!).
I never really gave it much thought until watching this on how and when drivers downshift pretty interesting to be fair
Your work is awesome. Subb'ed.
Generally the older drivers treat their equipment more gentle. When a gearbox and engine may not last the whole race you do not abuse it.
I remember Rosberg telling the drivers don't control the speed of the downshifts. They just input how many downshifts they require and the ECU does the correct amount based on the speed set.
That sounds like 90s F1 electronic wizardry
yea you can see with tsunoda at 1:30 he just holds down the paddle instead of single clicks
No, that's aboslutely not true for today's F1. After the standard ECU (2008), regulation only allows One Thing to reject a shift request that's the Over-Rev Protection. Other than that, ECU is required to complete a shifting request immediately. In other words, unless you happen to hit the over-rev protection (which I dont even remember when was the last time thsi happened), the driver is totally in charge of up & down shifting.
@@chrizyzz1008 dead wrong, you just can’t see his finger moving
Dude what an awesome video
That's really interesting to see that the alpha Tauri breaking is similar and so is the Alfa breaking the really interesting bit is that both Iceman and Frenchie break longer than their teammates, I wonder if Kimi is just used to the extreme torque of the older V8's and 10's not to say that he isn't aware of the power output levels of newer transmission systems but it's very very interesting the way he handles the car as compared
I'm gonna miss kimi a lot what a unique character
The Alfa romeo must have the ability to rely on the brakes as opposed to engine braking. It's likely no coincidence that the Alpha Tauri drivers vs the Alfa Romeo ones have similar shift styles. Interesting stuff
Downshift speed varies by turn and car setup, because it also affects brake balance (and in return, the ideal downshift rhythm is affected by the selected brake balance). A fast downshift moves brake balance to the rear, a slow downshift moves brake balance to the front. So on its own downshift speed doesn't say anything about the car or the driver. It could simply be that Kimi has his brake balance set more to the rear on that turn, so he needs less engine braking than Gasly.
Sound effect at the end was awesome!
This is so interesting wth 😂
Rosberg has given some very interesting insights on downshifting on his channel. He shows that after a long straight and before steering into slow turn he makes almost instant 8-2 downshift. Why? On every downshift you get slightly disbalanced, so it helps a bit.
So I suspect _in general_ fast downshifting is more correct behaviour, brakes overheating should be considered. For each individual case it depends heavily on gearbox/balance/brakes (differential settings probably). I was unable to notice any significant difference in braking point and speed (_before_ the apex, Gasly looks faster on the exit).
What are the benefits of fast downshifting and slow downshifting? I assume it’s more a case of aggression vs controlled braking/cornering based on drivers preference of driving?
I think it also depends on how the breaking is set up. If you downshift too quickly on a car with a lot of engine breaking the rear will want to go round
Kimi did it so smoothly, better exit acceleration
When you downshift that fast your using the gearbox to slow down the car. So if your fine with replacing it constantly then keep downshift fast.
really nice video
Also downshifting slower is used for fuel management. Basically downshift in lower rpms to save fuel on non push laps.
In years gone past, you’d say that was the older experienced guy showing mechanical sympathy to his machinery. Or just trying to control the rear axel more carefully to maintain traction and not u settle the car.
I don’t know if any of that still applies in modern F1 with the regen on that axel , I’m sure the computers would control it all now.
@_3scap3_ you’re a grade A idiot if you think for a second computers don’t control anything on an F1 car 😂 what planet are you on, go troll somewhere else
@_3scap3_ so they are computer controlled 😂 thanks dumb ass
@_3scap3_ bye bye thicko 😂
@_3scap3_ compared to 20 years ago, modern F1 cars are truly driving itself. Thats why Hamilton will never be on Schumacher, Senna and Fangio level
@@nik7bkh965 these cars don’t at all drive themselves
Kimi has more mechanical sympathy and uses engine braking more.The result, a smoother less stressful race on the gearbox. There is no need to smash down threw the gears like that.
More engine braking would mean shifting down faster....not slower.
@@shawnpitman876 engine braking in the interim of gear downshifts whilst at faster speeds.
@@Amory98 Still nope, engine braking is using the friction of the engine to slow the engine while not applying the throttle. Engine braking is most effective when the engine is at the highest RPMs it can manage, meaning in the lowest gear you can get it into.
Keep trying to act like you're smart though.
This is just wrong
@@shawnpitman876 You're not engine braking while engaging the clutch.
exhaust mics are so satisfying especially the Honda engine's crackle
Downshifting sometimes is used as engine braking and knowing how to manage it helps you manage the cat balance a lot- Nico Rosberg
how does this affect the car? does downshifting faster hurt it or save the gearbox?
Downshifting faster consumes more fuel
The most important thing about downshifting speed is the average engine rpm in the braking zone,which correlates directly to the amount of engine braking,and amount of energy harvesting(via MGU-K,not MGU-H)
In another words,more rpm while braking=more engine braking=more MGU-K energy harvesting=less brake temperatures.
@@parsamousavi5260 but also more gearbox, clutch, and engine wear. Lance in particular downshifting almost immediately is probably hurting his gearbox more
Downshifts are synched by vehicle electronics , the driver just rows through the gears by triggering the paddle.
The speed of shift is a given , the driver can not influence shift speed itself.
So basically the driver who has reached his corner entry speed (a driver who finishes braking before starting turn in can shift down as quick as he is able to pull the leaver again and again , this might well be limited by the returnspring rate at the leaver and the distance the leaver has to travel to actually trigger a shift command.
If you request a downshift with too much car speed detected by the car ,the shift will be ignored or delayed ( this is a engineering decision).
Today all shifting requests need to be driver initiated , a few Ears ago , this was fully automated , the car shifted at predetermed points , the engineers could programme up and downshift sequence , shift points etc perfected according to simulations , this is no longer
allowed.
@@tescopiwo ,why would this be ?
the engine is off throttle in downshifts , the car electronics may blip the throttle to synch the revs , I'm not sure if this is even happening with todays gearboxes with quickshift functionality .
I think the slow downshift has to do with some gearbox configuration or engine, for example watch Hamilton downshift in 2013 and then compare it with 2021 or 2011, it's way faster
I loved the music at the end. Did you produce it or know who did?
Apart from personal preference, one of the main factors will be diff settings. The different settings allow for more or less engine braking without unsettling the rear of the car. A confident/talented driver like Kimi can continue down shifting into the turn and afford to run a more aggressive setup. Whereas others like Gasly want to get all their shifting done before they need to turn so they don’t risk any oversteer.
Exactly. The real beauty is really not rushing from gears into brakes but managing a smooth synchronization between the two while holding the car. Am not sure what ends up being the fastest one though.
Maldonado and Grosjean were the fastest downshiters i think. You can find oboard back from 2014 or 2015 from them, it is quite something.
Magnussen's downshifts were quite fast as well. But this video is to compare current drivers. I think Haas' current 2 drivers also downshift quickly.
@@yelistener What about ALO? I thought he was the fastest on downshifting. Maybe in previous years
@@yelistener can you find the quickest downshift onboard clip in f1?
And Fisichella maybe.
Maldonado and Grosjean in that 2015 lotus almost hurt me to with how much they revved the engine on those downshifts and upshifts
Two very opposite driving styles. Gasly hard & late on the brakes, early on gas. Kimi carries a lot of speed into the corner and brakes early. This is why he's so good at the twisties of Spa.
Probably has to do with the engine braking differences between the engines and how it effects the differentials resistance to rotation. There’s been a few scenarios with the Ferrari where it’s completely locked the rear and spun the car on corner entry. That could be why they spread out the downshifts.
Excellent 👍
fast downshift hurts gearbox more right?
My theory is that like with Kimi's short shifting, this is a style left from more unreliable cars
@@azziyt888 or he just can't downshift that fast
@@azziyt888 mclaren 2003? He dnf so much
@@kimisole2937 maybe, kimi and vettel become middle age old man, something affect them in that age
@@anggabudi5619 Alonso hasn't gotten the memo yet and he's as old as Kimi
TSU’s the fastest, since he started later than Gasly, finished earlier
At least he can be best at something, even though it's this useless.
The only reason I don’t downshift as fast as Gasly is that I’m clicking my paddle on my wheel so rapidly that it doesn’t pick up some of the downshifts lmao
be an interesting comparison between these cars and the other cars rocking the same PUs/parts such as the works Ferrari vs the Alfa... makes you wonder if there's more of a reason for the downshifting rate to do with something like engine braking or transmission efficiency etc rather than just muscle memory or habit.
This wonderful medley of Honda and Ferrari F1 V6s is the best thing Ive ever heard
Really interesting guess it's partly to do with efficiency in energy harvesting vs not locking up the rears not just driving styles.
Surprising considering downshifting quickly and earlier means more front loading and therefore a pointy car. Kimi Raikkonen is famous for wanting a pointy car, Gasly struggled in 2019 in the Red Bull which was pointy. Now I’m wondering if perhaps Gasly’s natural tendency is like this and that’s why an already pointy car was just too much for him. Plus if Raikkonen’s used to a pointy car, you’re best bet is to control that by not trying to lose the rear or even overstress/overheat/overscrub the rear tires.
Is there any benefit if you run through the gears faster. And also - do they have to do anything else besides pulling the downshift paddle to go to lower gears. Do they need special throttlework or clutching.
Early downshift helps you turn the car earlier. And Iceman upshifts early sometimes, to get good traction. Actually early downshift along with early braking helps you save your tires as well
Antonio learning that smooth slow downshift from Kimi, hell yes!
Lift and coast technique indications possibly on Kimi’s situation, for saving fuel, cool down engine o saving battery energy ass well
This is qualifying. They dont lift & coast in qualifying lol
In general you want to be done with your downshifting before turning in but at the same time you need to pick the point that unsettles the car less. It is sometimes unavoidable to keep the car unsettle so you need to chose where to unsettle it. Personally I avoid unsettling too early or too late and prefer to do it once the heavy braking is done but before trailbraking, of course i don't know how F1 cars brake or downshift as I have never experience such a marvel of engineering.
It's really all about engine braking, braking point, entry/exit at the corner, etc. that matters
The reasons for this are very broad. It can go from how much do they need the gearbox to help with the rotation of the car, to the stopping power of the car, to the team's budget, and so on.
Has a lot to do with power delivery and engine braking requirements. Those with more aggressive downshifts are asking more of the engine braking and vice versa
Audio at 2:00 is from Playdead's 2016 game "Inside"? Sounds similar to the section where the protagonist is negotiating the "blast pit" chapter of the game.
Yes, you're the 2nd one in the comment section that recognized it.
I think this is because older drivers like Kimi have started so long ago that their cars gearbox was much more unreliable and thus you had to care for it to not have a new one every session. Nowadays the new drivers can downshift almost as fast as they can because the gearbox breaking isn't that big of a problem anymore. Like you can clearly hear the gearbox be in pain when Gasly's clip plays.
Looks like the Alfa's use the final downshift to get some extra rotation as they turn towards the apex whereas the AT's can just smash down the gears to maximise engine braking and throw the car in.
It also depends on the engine,
the optimal time to shift would be different for different engines.
Exactly, they compared two Hondas to one Mercedes and two Ferrari Saubers. It would be better to have a comparison of all the Mercedes, Ferraris, and Hondas compared because that’s much more of an accurate assessment.
Gasly: me when I started driving games on PS2
Kimi: me now
Can be to do with the different cars and how they each need to approach corner entry?
Always amazes me that the cars sound so similar with different manufacturers
I don't know of this relates at all, but I'm pretty sure most of played the most recent F1 games. I normally downshift like Gasly when playing. Makes me feel like i have more control of the car when turning. What about you guys?
I think it's more to do with the car characteristics. Alfa Romeo is known for instability while braking, which is why both drivers do it.