How To Make Double Screen Boards
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2018
- A Double Screen Board or Snelgrove Board has many uses including requeening colonies, making nucs and overwintering small colonies or nucs over strong ones. We show how we make and use our commercial duty version of a Double Screen Board.
I'm really impressed with the quality of these. Bob calls them homemade here but I'm telling you they are a quality piece of equipment.
Keep up the good work on videos and content ,me being a 3 year summer bee keeper really appreciate all the information an knowledge from you thank you
Thank you for great videos. It's always great to learn from experienced Master beekeepers
Bob your info is so good, I've learnt so much and you share the info so generously, thanks so much!
Sir , I love your thought process! Thank you for promoting bees
Thanks.
Thank you I’ll be watching hives for hero’s or the other way around . Enjoy your videos again thank you.
I have used them and love them
Great show . Great idea 💡
Thank you.
We build a similar piece that is used as a 2 inch sugar board rim and double screen for late winter here in Nashville....Thanks
Good job! I wish I would have seen this before I bought sheets of poplar ply. All those boxes delaminated in half a year.
HDO with Douglas Fir is the best.
thank you
How do you make lids and bottom boards. Thank for all your help.look forward. To your new videos. Great stuff
Hi Danny. We've tried everything. These days we use Douglas Fir HDO (High Density Overlay) plywood. It's expensive and a bit harder to find but it's worth it. It has a resin veneer on both sides and is used by concrete wall contractors. It's tough and it's strong. We even cut the strips used on our lids out of the scrap. Some of our lids as seen in some of our videos have a 3/4 inch rim for use with pollen patties and some are flat with a thin 3/8 by 3/4 inch strip at each end to make a common migratory lid. Bottom boards and lids are the same dimension but just have different strips. They are 16 1/4 by 21 3/4 inch and you get ten pieces out of a sheet with enough scrap to make all the strips you want. All are painted on the edges to seal the end grain. Good question and would make a good, short video. Hmm
Here in the PNW we need at least 3/4” and prefer 1-1/2” so that the bees can Winter in small to average colonies and stay warm. The larger colonies do fine in standard hives.
Bob, I had these made up and am loving them, especially for early nucs. My question is how do you clean inevitable wax droppings....in between the screens. Thank you for sharing info generously!!
We will try to blow it out with a nozzle on a hot water hose. If it's clogged too much for that we will remove the screen on one side and then clean. The way our screens are mounted is one advantage over other designs that are full screens..
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you for your input AND for sharing so generously. When talking/educating newbees....I point your way as a solid source of bee info! Cheers
If you like these things it looks like you guys build a real good one. As for myself I thought this was a great idea on year and I put nucs on top of hives and all that moisture went right into that little Nook first cold snap they were dead I mean the very first night that was the end of it for me as far as overwintering nucs on top however your idea of a spring split when it's still a little chilly on top of a strong hive sounds like a good plan to help them build up quicker. I have noticed hearing Missouri at least that the mating nucs with screened bottom boards are usually slower so I started closing them all off
Baddest Bees crack the lead if a branch about 1/8 of an inch in diameter to let moisture out
Hi Bob, thanks for the video. I have a question about overwintering with the double screen board. Do you find that having a double screen board on top of the "strong" hive combined with the entrance to the upper box that you've created a channel for air to enter through the lower box entrance and out the upper box entrance and thus having a lot of warm air escape making it much more challenging for the bees to generate and maintain their heat?
Although it makes sense that heat is being lost with a colony that has a double screen board on top I've never noticed that they do any worse than colonies that don't have one.
Bob, what kind of circle cutter do you use? I have a hard time removing the wood from my hole saw bit every time I use it?
We only cut through to within 1/16 inch then we turn it over and finish cutting from the other side. The hole saw generally doesn't hold onto the disk that way. The hard part is getting the board back in the in the perfect spot. We use a jig on our drill press for that. We also have a custom carbide hole saw which may be helping us some.
Is there bee space on both sides or just flat on one side? thanks for ur knowledge.
We make them flat on the bottom but a thin strip could be added.
Very good information.
Do you have any good resource for sourcing HDO plywood? I have looked extensively in my area in Michigan and can only find MDO available. Thanks!
We buy it from Mid South Lumber in Atlanta which I don't think helps you. It's used a lot by concrete wall contractors for forms down here and builders that need a very strong plywood for special projects. I've also heard that it's used by some boat builders. Beyond that I can't offer any good ideas. Good luck, it's the best thing for hive covers and bottom boards I know of.
Concrete Central in Grand Rapids 616 475 8800
Hi Bob, I have made a couple Double Screen Boards today and instead of shims I simply just used the forester bit I used to make the holes to make a little over 3/8" half moon at the end of the board. Just looking for your thoughts on this.
Seems like it would work. However, the bottom bars of the box above the double screen board will be too close.
Recently purchased HDO for lids. I'm guessing it's not necessary to seal the shiny side (the release side), but are you sealing the side with the manufacturer label? It appears you've painted the cut edges, which I'll do, but do I need to seal any of the other sides? And if so, what should be used for longevity?
Hi Jim. We do put paint on the cut edges although I have some very old lids that never got it and they are fine. I don't think there's much benefit to painting the flat surfaces. The printed side is a bit thinner so we usually put that side down. I've got some of these lids that are 15 years old and although they look rough from usage they are still flat and work fine.
@@bobbinnie9872 thanks so much for the reply.
Hi Bob,
How long would you say you could let the colony that you are getting ready to put above a double screen board above the queen excluder before putting them over the double screen board? My thinking is it won't matter, but once they are placed over the double screen board they can start drawing out queen cells because they will feel queen less. It's just bizarre to me to think that they feel queen less, because I use them to combine hives so that a queen less colony will get the pheromones from the colony with a queen. This still just messes with my understanding that I have on double screen boards. I've watched all your videos on it, and I trust that it works, I'm just not sure how you can combine a queen less colony, and then using the same double screen board, make a colony feel queen less. Thanks for anymore incite on this.
Jesse is killing me in this video!!!!!😅😅😅
Hi Bob, thanks so much for your instructive videos! I will start using them next season in Australia.
The nucs you over winter in the 10 frame boxes, are they 5 frame? I assume you have added an additional 5 frames for them ?
Did the nucs come from those hives or have you just moved them into the hives to overwinter from another location?
Cheers Peter
Hi Peter. If I remember correctly the nucs in this video were breeder queens that we wanted to make sure would make it through the winter. Although small they were full with ten frames.You might like to watch "Overwintering Nucs On A Double Screen Board" ua-cam.com/video/EI281J1FrZI/v-deo.html
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks Bob. I wondered if the bees in the nuc up top would fly round to the lower main opening and vacate their obligation to the top nuc, and I guess you could just walk away with the whole super and add a base and lid and a mated or queen cell and shift location too right ?
@@livingadamman7994 That is correct. If we're establishing a new colony with the top we like to at least wait until it has it's own hatching brood that they produced.
Is 3/8 adequate side rail space or is 3/4 a better option? I've got some precut bottom boards or I'd go with the recommended 5/8.
3/8 works great unless you are utilizing a swarm cell that is hanging off the bottom of a frame. We always split colonies that have just swarmed. That's why I like 5/8. 3/4 would work good for this also. Otherwise 3/8 is good.
You speak of starting Nucs above your dbl deeps. I see you’re starting Nucs with 10 frame deeps. What is your frame configuration in the Nuc? Please, thank you
We start most of our nucs with two frames of brood, at least one frame of food and an extra shake or two of bees off of open brood to add young bees. For more on this see our video "Splitting Using a Double Screen Board". ua-cam.com/video/Z62UwOLfdMo/v-deo.html
Could you possibly show one being made, or post the plans? Thanks.
Hi Ronald. I just noticed I missed your question a few months back. I don't have plans but the concept is simple. Any piece of plywood cut 16 1/4 by 19 7/8 with a hole in the middle will do. We use 1/8 inch hardware cloth on both sides of the hole with a rim around of 5/8 or 3/4 while leaving a 2 inch entrance at any point. Good Luck.
Do you have a parts list for making these? And maybe dimensions? My daughter and I have 4 hives right now. Two of them are bursting right now. Not sure what we're going to do. She has some dead outs. We was thinking of outting a dead out deep box on top of the 2 deeps for now to hopefully keep them from swarming. Mother nature is off her meds here in Southeast Iowa, and being able to split right at the moment just isn't gonna work I don't think. Not to memtion trying to find a good mated queen. Really like your Videos Bob. I've for sure learned a BUNCH! THANK YOU for taking the time to make them.
That sounds like a good strategy. We did that very thing with a yard to try and keep them in check until we could split. I don't have a parts list on the double screen board. The plywood piece is 19-7/8 x 16-1/4 with 5/8 strips. Any thickness of strips would work and any large size hole will work between the screens.
Ok. Thank you sir. I appreciate that. Gonna call the lumber yard tommorrow to see if they have that kind of plywood in stock. Again, THANK YOU and keep making your videos. I really enjoy watching them and listening to you talk.
Hi Bob. Question about the thickness (height) of the edge strips.
I understand the logic of making them 5/8 thick if the readily available scrap material you have from the 4x8 sheets is 5/8”. But would you agree that the upper box need not be lifted that much by the strips. In other words, the height of the entrance could be as little as 3/8 of an inch, or half an inch if that thickness material is readily available. Or is there a compelling reason for the 5/8 inch high opening? I’m thinking a small nuke might be able to defend a 3/8” tall opening better.
Thanks.
In the beginning I made all of my double screen boards with 3/8 but I found that when I was splitting colonies with swarm cells I would often have cells hanging off the frame too far and they would be touching the floor. That's the main reason I like 5/8.
Hi Bob, quick question. Why don't you put the strips on both sides? I build a couple of them and they work great but in the spring time there isn't space to put on patties? I'm in Canada and we can still get cold nights in May. Was curious why not both sides for the strips.
We enjoy your videos and have learned a lot, thank you!
We very rarely use patties but I know the strips would still be nice at times. I used to have strips on all of our flat migratory lids but we got away from it because of the burr comb.
Hi Bob, What is the purpose of two screened holes instead of one; what is the diameter of the holes you've selected and why did you select that diameter?
Thanks, Dan
Hi Dan. There isn't anything special about the holes. We use the same hole saw we use for feeding holes in our hive covers and we do two to increase the rising warmth. The size is 70mm but again it doesn't matter.
Hi Bob, I had some scrap 3/4'' I used for the shims on one side of some scrap plywood I had. I left an opening for the top hive to come and go. I added a 1/2'' shim on the other side but I just notice you only shimmed one side does it matter?
No, it doesn't matter. Some beekeepers put a space underneath like you have or bigger for pollen patties.
@@bobbinnie9872 well thats good to hear thank you. I painted the 2 up I made and also made up a 3 bar queen cell frame. Going to a 3 bar frame next year - I'll keep my 2 frame bars on standby :)
Hello Sir! There is a reason to use only two 71mm holes instead of a larger one, that would ensure a better heat transfer? A big hole which is covering the whole bottom would be inappropriate/wrong?
Double screen boards purchased from most bee supply companies are simply a rim with shims and have wire covering the entire device. One 71 mm hole would work, but we put two to spread the affect.
Hi this Bill from Lawrenceville area. Where buying some land in pendergrass area and like to get some honey bees. Don't have any experience but always love bee's. Wonder if i could get some training or hang out with you for a day and see if this what i really want to do. I grew up on a farm so i know there is a lot to learn and work. Thanks
Hi Bill. You're not very far from us and yes that would be fine. Our office number is 706 782 6722. If I'm not here leave a message and call you back.
can I put multiple hives on top of a strong hive during the winter to keep them warm?
If two queens can touch each other through a queen excluder they may try to fight. I have seen many queens existing together on opposite sides of an excluder but I've also seen many disappear on one side or the other. I have seen cells hatch above an excluder and mate if they have a separate entrance and end up with two queens.
Hey Bob will 1/2" plywood work? reason Iam asking is that I already have a few sheets. really enjoy all the videos.
Hi Brian. 1/2 inch is fine. The main thing to be concerned about is that the bees in the top and bottom can't touch tongues through the two screens and share pheromones. If they do this the top may not realize they are queenless. Thanks
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company great. Thank for the reply. Be safe.
When you overwinter a small 5 frame nuc using a DS board over a strong colony … do you put 5 more frames empty comb ? Foundation? Follower board in with the 5 frame nuc ? Thanks In Advance!
At time we do and at times we don't add other frames. I'm sure a tight fitting follower board would be helpful in cold climates.
thanks for the helpful information , can we use plywoor with 10 cm thinkness? , or what is the minimum thikness that can be used without the bees can touch each other and exchange the pheromone ,appreciate your efforts
10 cm would work fine.
Do you mean 1cm.....10mm???? Just curious
@@LoneWolf-zw5yn 10MM. I'm sure the original comment meant that too. 10CM plywood would be a bit thick. Thanks.
@@bobbinnie9872 ok thanks, I thought that may be the case. I enjoy watching your content, you are a very humble knowledgeable person.
Do you sell the boards? I don’t have time or equipment to make. Please thank you, Ray
We don't currently have any for sale. You can purchase something similar at Mann Lake. Double screen board item # ww-180
is it more bennificial to turn the entrances facing different direction?
Although it's not absolutely necessary I believe it increases your odds of success.
Hi Bob, Thank you for the awesome info. Would you willing to sell several of those double screen boards? Thanks
Hi Royal.
You can order them from our store. 706 782 6722. Thanks
Bob, I truly appreciate great info you provide for the people. As a new beekeeper I have a mentor from Arizona State Bee lab Dr. Cahit Ozturk and learned from you and him a lot of new ways of keeping bees and improving overall experience. I have had really bad back for many years, which prevented me starting earlier. Honestly I did not know how hard it could be keeping bees in a desert environment and most importantly keeping them alive in these 120F heat here in Arizona. My first year I started with 2 Pendall Cordovan colonies and had over 120+ pounds of honey from each colony this May 2021. Take care Bob, you are absolutely awesome person.
HDO plywood is an excellent choice! Resin impregnated sheet overlay over 6 to 7 ply veneers and no voids internally to attract and retain moisture. Very wise decision since these types of plywood are used for exterior signage on buildings and such. They withstand the weather and elements for many years. As you well know, it's the labor that's costly not the materials used.
Many people forget the old adage: The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I sold quite a few sheets of MDO and HDO over the years when I worked in the lumber business. Nearly all was used for signage rather than concrete work... at least in Tulsa OK where I lived at that time.
Sounds like you know your plywood.
Jeff, when you dealt with the HDO plywood, what was the weight of the 4x8 sheet of 3/4"? or the 5/8"? How about comparing them to regular plywood of the same thickness.
I am planing on picking some up in New Jersey in the next few weeks.
Thanks for any help.
Hi. I used full mesh board for a few years but was not really happy about stuff falling into the hive below. I did not do as you have done because I was told the hive below over heats. As I can now see this is not the case.
Also have you ever over wintered with these boards?
Enjoying your videos 😁👍
Yes, we overwinter small nucs and breeder queens over double screen boards.
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company thank you 😊🐝🐝
are the entrance facing de same direction
In this instance they are. This was small nucs overwintering on double screen boards and I wanted them to be facing south as the colonies were. Facing the same direction works better over a double deep colony than it does over a single. On a single I prefer them to be opposite directions.
Do you feel there would be any drawbacks to using 1/2 in HDO? I can't find any supplier who carries 5/8 in HDO and 3/4 HDO seems like overkill??
For double screen boards 1/2 would work perfectly fine.
@@bobbinnie9872 Will proceed accordingly. Thanks
How are you cutting to get most out of a sheet of plywood? 16 0n 48" side or 96" side? Or do u do a combo. I lay it out and lot of waste. How many per sheet are you doing?
We cut it 16-1/4" with the 48" side against the fence. This will give us 10 pieces and scrap for making strips.
Or....better thought. Are these just flat on the bottom, ie is the bottom flush with the sides on the bottom side with only a raised edge on the top side to create a bottom board?
Hi Ronald. That is correct. The bottom is flat and smooth except for the screen on that side and the top has the spacers all around except for the entrance . This one shows 5/8 inch spacers but anything between 3/8 and 3/4 will work. We like 5/8 or 3/4 to allow enough space if we use a frame with swarm cells on the bottom.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks so much for the feedback. I can see making and using these in the Spring. Also, thanks for your thoughtfully done and genuinely helpful videos.
Bob, do you close up the feeding opening on the nuc covers when you are not feeding them?
Love the channel - just found you and for someone with aspirations of going to 50-100 hives soon I appreciate you sharing your wisdom.
Hi Fred. Thanks for your comment. All of the holes we have in our covers are for a 70mm lid (quart jar). We just push in a one piece metal lid without holes when not feeding. We had a custom carbide hole saw made for this because this is a hard hole to match in a hardware store.
Bob, I note that you promote their use in the spring. Any reason why we couldn’t use them into the summer months?
No reason at all. We're still using them now. If we find a double deep that has swarmed we split it on the spot and make sure both halves have a cell. That doubles the chances of success.
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company
New subject, Bob, but can you use it with a single deep or double medium brood nest? Your videos are the best.
@@gerryfelix5948 Yes. You could use these on top of any colony you choose.
I know this is an old video but where do you source HDO plywood from ?
Mid South Lumber in Lithonia Georgia. Near Atlanta. (770) 482-4800
Can you use window screen instead of hardware cloth?
You can and we have but we prefer the hardware cloth because it's more durable and doesn't get clogged as much. If you use window screen make sure it's metal and not plastic or fiberglass because the bees can actually chew holes in it.
Hey Bob, What size holes did you drill in the center?
We're using the same hole saw that we use for cutting feeding holes in our lids but the hole size isn't crucial. Any combination that will let plenty of warmth through will work.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks Bob, I was thinking it looked like a 2.75" or 70mm Hole that you use for feeders
Hi Bob could you a screen board with 2 4 frame nucs for the winter regards from west aust
Yes and it would help the nucs overwinter better. I would have the entrances facing opposite directions.
@@bobbinnie9872 thanks Bob
how do you manage condensation building up in the box
In our area we can get away with some condensation. If I was any farther north I feel like I would have to do something. I've noticed that the use of "Reflectix" under the lid is helpful for some. With an insulation layer under the lid the warm humid air doesn't seem to condense under the lid when coming in contact with a surface that isn't as cold.
Do you have plans available for these?
Thank you.
Sorry, I don't have plans.
Pretty simple plans Christopher. You can also use scrap plywood and try it out if you aren't sure about it. If you like the double screen then invest in the expensive stuff.
Just trace a super on the plywood and cut it to size. Cut or take 3/8" wood and glue and tack it all around on one side (leaving a small opening somewhere on the piece)..
Next is to cut out an opening in the middle of the board. You can make the opening any way you want to, but Bob's circle cuts look nice.
Next is to get #8 mesh and staple it to both sides of the plywood where you made the hole. Make sure you put it on both sides to keep the pheromones from transferring from one box to another.
See how it fits when you're done and then make a bunch if you want.
Look around for builders throwing extra lumber away and ask if you can have the scraps. I've done this for years and it's worked out great. No costs.
Now, Bob's plywood that he's using is superior to building materials, but I look at it as, 'If it's free, it's for me'.
Hi Bob, what is diameter of holes you make for Screen Board? And may you tell me how you drill holes? I use Milwaukee Hole Dozer ... if you have to make a bit, no problem, but if a few hundreds ... it just pisses me off how long it takes.
Our holes are 71 mm which is made with the same custom carbide bit hole saw we use for putting jar feeding holes in our lids. The size of the hole isn't crucial. More on our hole saw in "Feeding Bees Part 3". ua-cam.com/video/zjUjzHDqUtA/v-deo.html
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you
Do the bees ever propolise the hardware cloth and block it up?
Yes. Occasionally we need to replace it.
Hey Bob when making your spring nucs in 10 frame deeps do the bees ever expand onto new foundation in the 3 weeks before you sell them? I usually buy 5 frame nucs what do you do with newly drawn frames over the original 5 if there are any ?
Yes they do expand past five frames, and we promote it. One of the reasons we like making nucs in singles is so we can harvest the best (most appropriate) five frames for the nuc being sold. Then we often restart the single with what is left over, even if it's just one or two frames of bees. We use another queen cell or caged queen and grow them for ourselves. We sell hundreds of colonies each fall and this replaces them with a new unit. Cycling in new equipment is one of the major reasons we like selling nucs and colonies
☺
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Banks for the info
Can you use 2 double screen boards to make 2 nucs you have a front and back entrance but the other would be on the side just wondering trying to get my business going thanks for your videos I have learned a lot even though I have 17 years in beekeeping always watching and learning from teachers like you willing to help people
Yes, I've done it a number of times.
I wish people around me knew what HDO was. Both home improvement stores and even lumber yards look at me like my head is spinning around. They’ve only heard of MDO (Medium).
Do you sell double screen boards in your store and do you ship?
Yes and yes. Call 706 782 6722.
Do you sell these boards ?
Yes, call our store at 706 782 6722
Why would you over winter a nuc? And not start on in the spring.
It is ready to use or grow earlier than anything we could make up in the spring.
1. HDO plywood (High density overlay)
2. 5 /8 of an inch
3. 8 inch hardware cloth galvanized
4. t-50 staples quarter inch long
Can we have a diagram with all the dimensional information?
The bees can cross over the screen bord or not?
No, it's a complete division with another entrance created.
Would 1/2 work
Hi Danny. If you mean 1/2 plywood, yes it will work. The key is to get something that won't warp.
5/8” thick plywood, then 5/8” strips attached to both sides using 1-1/8” staples? Looks like a 2” access entry point cutout?
That is correct although you can use down to 3/8 plywood in the center. I recommend at least 5/8 strips so you can use swarm cells that are hanging low on a frame.
@@bobbinnie9872 ok great thank you! In one of your past videos you asked the classroom who’s expanding their colony count…..I’m a backyard bee guy and currently have 7 colonies with a goal of stopping at 11. I’m a full-time career firefighter (23 years so far)…. Is the jump from 7 to 11 ok for 1 person to handle? This is the reason why I would make 1 or 2 double screen boards, otherwise I would purchase yours… I’m in SWFL. Thanks Bob for putting out these videos. I’m not quite a year in but I love it because it’s a challenge and the world needs them.
@@Xray.71 If you can jump in a building on fire my guess is that you handle 11 colonies. LOL
@@bobbinnie9872 hahahaha well said! I think I got 4 lives yet! What’s shipping time to FL from GA? I may order them anyways…. How many should I order?
@@Xray.71 I'm not familiar with shipping packages although I know it's done a lot. My guess is that they would fair a lot better if you could pick them up. Shipping is hard on everything. Perhaps you could google search for producers near you. Another option would be to purchase nucs which might be more available in your area. Good luck.
Do you sell these screen boards
Yes, you can order through our store at 706 782 6722.
Спасибо большое) хочу попробывать у нас в Украине
Translation: "Thank you very much) I want to try here in Ukraine"
Is that window screen or metal, I’ll watch it again I may have missed it.
It's 1/8 inch galvanized hardware cloth. Metal window screen will work but we like hardware cloth better.
@@bobbinnie9872 thanks
Hey Bob can you use window screen rather than #8 hardware cloth
Hi Tommy, Window screen works but hardware cloth is more durable and last a lot longer. Bob
Bob Binnie at Blue Ridge Honey Company the bees could easily propolize window screen to
I’d say that’s probably right and they might even propolise that window screen
Where do you get your HDO plywood?
www.mid-southlumber.com/
I came across this video titled "how to make double screen boards" but could not find any dimensions build list.
The overall dimension is 19-7/8 inch by 16-1/4 and the strips are simply cut to match. Any thickness of plywood over 3/8 can be used for the base and I like the strips to be 5/8 or 3/4 thick. The entrance space is 2 inch.
Hi,
the tray I use is in the link. I make the snelgrove tray myself.
www.beesource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/scrnbrd.pdf
I am very pleased.
Looks good. Thank you.
And now the sheets of hdo are $105 😢
A sign of the times I'm afraid.
@@bobbinnie9872 oh ya I know, it's still worth it
I just don't understand? Why not just cell starter colony, capped cell, incubation, mating nuc. I feel u just want me to work harder! To many variables that u don't mention about a hive making queen cells and then not wanting to swarm. Obviously bees don't need to touch to communicate. Although this method has some weight as 2 nucs making honey on a super. But just queen, queen cells in one kinda colony is not my forte and seem not 100 percent controllable. If your small and u just want to start a couple hives just do walk away!
thank you