Same issues on my 3 and 5. Not usable out of the box Loctite on the handle bolts Took finish off Dyed the handles Reshaped the edge and sharpened. This took hours Now…great knives.
I find that strange I bought a Rat 7 and a Rat 5 at the same time a few years back. I took the finish off put a 90 degree on the spine and its shoots sparks from a ferro rod all day long. I did put a vinegar patina to help prevent rust. That being said its not my favorite knife in my collection but not my least favorite either. Maybe quality control and material quality has dropped the last few years like many other products.
From what I've read, that's a reoccurring theme for OKC. They've changed to 1075, and I have three newest versions, as pictured on the OKC website. I'm finished with the 3, working on the 5 now, and nearly finished. I'll be doing an update video soon, to show what I did, and my experience dealing with Ontario Knife Company
I literally just opened my Rat 5... The more I looked it over? The more disappointed I became with the knife..... It's dull, the blades's edge/grind is HORRIBLY off,the screws/bolts in the handle were tightened too much and cut into and dug deep in the handle grips...I haven't used it yet, but I will after I get a good sharpening station/Kit to fix their QA issues...
I'm sorry for your experience, but it's good to see I'm not alone. I just finished fixing mine, and have a video coming in a day or so, to discuss what I did, and my experience dealing with OKC. Spoiler alert, they never even responded.
@@lheastridge dang..... That is really unfortunate... Looks like OKCs former partner who made the knives? Knows what they're doing.... The same company went on to make Essee knives, correct?
I would've split the difference and just bought Esse 4. The sheath is much nicer and handle. But the best thing is they really do stand by that warranty. Beat it to death, braek it when it gets too dull and just send it in for a brand new one. If you really want an Ontario go with the SP series. You might need to fix the factory edge bevel but theyre bulletproof.
I got the sp53 and rat7 from okc. I got my other tops and esee blades for better times as they are so bloody expensive now that it’s best to use your beater blades more and never touch your hood ones
I agree! It's a shame that American made has become nearly unaffordable. I have knives on my wishlist from both ESEE, and tops, but each year, along with the cost of living, they grow in price, and become more unattainable. That was one of the reasons I started this channel, to show viewers like me, affordable options. Thank you for watching!
Esee,Tops, White river are my main knives would like to get bark river ,harder to get the ones I want, less expensive knives Becker or Schrade. I have a large collection the above knives I've never had a problem with. The esse I got with the contured handles I've thought about trying Condor knives the kurki
Condor makes good stuff, and the kukri is an awesome blade, when you get used to it. If you haven't tried BPS Knives, I highly recommend them. Their bushlore blows Condor's away
The more I've researched, along with viewer comments, I've discovered that the quality control issues have become an issue within the past decade. Worse now, due to the decision to lower the grade of steel, the sheath quality, and I'm sure that line of thinking extended to nearly every aspect of their business. Make a quick stop at Bass Pro when you can, and take a look at the 3's and 5's that they offer, losing special attention to the edge grind; you'll see exactly what I'm saying. After some work, they're both great knives. Thanks for watching!
I have an endless supply on my farm. I'll go out about twice a month and look for tap roots on deadfalls. I also keep an eye out when I'm camping, at the lake, etc.
I just got a Rat 7 and it was kinda shitty. I'm a machinist, though. Blade was straight, and heat treatment seems very good. I reprofiled the edge to 18-20 deg per side and honed/ stropped it. Sanded the scales to my liking, and now I love it.
I just got a RAT 7 a month ago to replace my old one. I didn't notice right away but the grind is off. Not the edge, the actual grind, the geometry of the blade. I feel like I could have done a straighter job here with my own tools. I don't know what's going on over there but I'm extremely disappointed in Ontario. They used to be my favorite.
Such a shame. I've always considered Ontario a great American knife company making good value, good quality knives for their price point, especially their RAT and Ranger series. I have a RAT 3 and an RTAK-II from about 2009 and they're both terrific. I'm currently in the market for about a 5-in knife in the Ontario Ranger style, but just can't consider Ontario because of their current quality issues. I hope they find their way back.
Unfortunately, this was my first experience with Ontario. It will absolutely be my last. I wish I could've experienced the quality they were known for, but I wouldn't take a chance on another one of their products. Thanks for watching!
Spend the extra money on Tops or Esee . I love Ontario blades and always expect that I might need to fix an edge when they come. They are fun to work on but if ya want better ya gotta pay for it. I bought knives in that price range for many years always wanting a Tops or Esee. Yet instead of just paying the price I'd never pull the lever and keep dreaming. Finally i just bought a Tops Brakimo and wish I had not wasted my money chasing the knives i really wanted. Its worth spending the money .... That said I still love buying lower cost knives and making them my own. Ontario was just bought by another U.S owned company . Seems their plant will be moved so hopefully good changes are coming ESP sheaths and quality control.
They're far from ESEE. I love my ESEE 6! Ontario has ruined the RAT line, for me personally. ESEE took a decent knife, with a good design, and made it great. I agree about the coating, though cold steel's srk can throw amazing sparks, with a similar coating. I still can't figure that one out. Thanks for watching!
I feel your pain. If you actually live in Poland, your pain was much worse after shipping. I like both knives, after hours of work, but that's a ridiculous statement. They turned out great; but that took hours of work, which included making new sheaths. My next big project, is to make my own. It will be a similar design, with a few tweaks, but done correctly. A proper knife, with a proper grind and sheath. I'm leaning towards 1095, kydex sheath, with a bow drill divot, perhaps a bearing, and a scandi grind. I plan to make 3. One with a modified scandi, and one with a saber grind. I'm not sure which will be better so I plan to try both. Thanks for watching!
Sort of lol. I love knives, but I modify every single one. I'm going to get some 1095 flat stock, cut my own design, and make the knife I've always wanted. I already have the design drawn, just have to decide on scales and whether or not to install a bearing for a bow drill. The latter depends on my efficiency with a bow drill. I've succeeded in a bow drill fire, but would like to be proficient in the skill. I may do two sets of scales, to give an option
I bought a Rat5 because it was more knifey and less trying to be a hatchet. It's still way too thick for a knife. Esee knives are 1/4" thick, I chose this one because the spine was a thinner 3/16". 20/20 hindsight, I would have bought a 5" blade with a 1/8" spine. I have an Esee Xancudo which I love, but the blade is just a bit short.
Pretty sure these are 1075 steel now. They changed from 1095 a few years back. I have both of these from 2012 and the fit and finish was way better than the ones you have.
Fit and finish on the Rat line used to be a lot better but they’re cutting so many corners now they’re basically project knives at this point . There’s a good reason Esee’s are double the price . I spent about four hours fixing all the issues on the Rat 5 I bought a few months back .
It's sad to see such a reputable company lose their way. Wish I could've tried some of the earlier stuff. I saw the 5 at bass pro last week, same issue, only they were $90. There are too many options these days for that type of negligence. Thanks for watching!
Me either. It's a shame to have to put so much work into what Ontario calls a finished product. Check out Holtzman's Bloodline; better steel, better fit and finish, better quality, and his customer service is the best I've seen. One of my favorite knives! I'll have a review for it soon. Thanks for watching!
I bought an RD-6 from Ontario a couple years back and the tip was barely even ground. It was the most uneven bevel I've ever seen. I had to go in and grind Ina while new edge both sides and the tip had so much steel left on it it took probably 2 hours, by hand fixing it. Terrible quality control and bad customer service. They acted like it was my fault. A brand new knife. And tried to say I ADDED STEEL TO THE TIP. yeah... Don't buy anything from Ontario knife company, it's almost all trash for the price. They make schrade knives at twice the price.
If you purchase a RAT, I suggest buying a used one. Save yourself the disappointment, because the new models are definitely projects, if you want it right
The story I was told about ESEE vs RAT. Randall contracted OKC to make his RAT knives. The contract ended and OKC kept making his knives. He sued, didn’t have enough money to continue the lawsuit so OKC is still making the RATs and Randall started ESEE. That’s the story I heard. I personally won’t buy OKC, just a dick move to me. I do have a few ESEEs.
I hadn't heard that, but if their willing to sell garbage to their customers, I wouldn't put it past them. They never even responded to my attempt at contact, so I have no respect remaining for them
Yup the one I got the edge was absolute garbage, and the sheath what a sh*tshow..embarrassing all the way around had to completely re profit the edge. Got it shaving sharp,and ordered an esse 3 sheath for it. We shall see how well it holds up over time.
Sorry you had the same experience. Mine have both done well, after tons of work. I'd send them back, if I could do it again. Lesson learned. Thanks for watching!
If I wanted to go through the trouble, I could. I shouldn't have to. The purpose is to show how sloppy Ontario has become. They've downgraded the sheath, the steel and overall quality. Thanks for watching
in the early 1970's up to its middle when you bought American made product you got perfect quality no matter what sadly not anymore today china's production is much better
Unfortunately, no. That's just the level of quality we can expect from Ontario, after they downgraded the steel to 1075, and downgraded the sheaths. To them, money is priority number 1. Thanks for watching!
If you aren’t going to change the scales out then lock tight them that handle will never come off also idk how comfortable you are with heat treating but you could grind that edge back and re heat treat and temper just normalize the blades twice before you do so or you run a huge risk of stress fractures
Sorry but the quality of ontario is really bad. I bought the CK2 which is a 12" saw back machete on amazon. I was disappointed with tbe blade finish. The blade was closer to an "unfinished" state than anything. I really had to spend time on it to correct and fix the blade. The only good ontario knife I have is a RAT1 that was a gift from my brother.
ontario used to be my favourite brand but their quality has gone downhill hard,i dont feel like gambling my money on what i get if i buy one from them anymore,but there is so many good budget options out there now so there is no reason to.
I completely agree, and fear for their future, for those reasons. I'm sure a military contract has softened the blow, but those don't last forever. Thanks for watching!
@@lheastridge not that was my bmx racing number plate as a kid. I use a jig also because I seem to never get the exact angle on both sides of the edge if I do it by hand
@@lheastridge you can buy blade blanks and finish making one. Just make sure you ask if the blanks are stamped cut out of sheet goods or are forged. Stamp cut usually means the metal is soft enough to cut without breaking but sheared.
@@timbow50 I've recently finished a blade blank from BPS Knives. Made a kydex sheath for it and g10 scales. I've also done some repair work and modifications on other knives. I always use hand tools so that I don't get the steel hot; if I have to use a grinder, I go slow and cool the blade after each pass. I have a few videos with some of the knives if you'd like to check them out
Same issues on my 3 and 5.
Not usable out of the box
Loctite on the handle bolts
Took finish off
Dyed the handles
Reshaped the edge and sharpened. This took hours
Now…great knives.
I find that strange I bought a Rat 7 and a Rat 5 at the same time a few years back. I took the finish off put a 90 degree on the spine and its shoots sparks from a ferro rod all day long. I did put a vinegar patina to help prevent rust. That being said its not my favorite knife in my collection but not my least favorite either. Maybe quality control and material quality has dropped the last few years like many other products.
From what I've read, that's a reoccurring theme for OKC. They've changed to 1075, and I have three newest versions, as pictured on the OKC website. I'm finished with the 3, working on the 5 now, and nearly finished. I'll be doing an update video soon, to show what I did, and my experience dealing with Ontario Knife Company
I literally just opened my Rat 5... The more I looked it over? The more disappointed I became with the knife..... It's dull, the blades's edge/grind is HORRIBLY off,the screws/bolts in the handle were tightened too much and cut into and dug deep in the handle grips...I haven't used it yet, but I will after I get a good sharpening station/Kit to fix their QA issues...
I'm sorry for your experience, but it's good to see I'm not alone. I just finished fixing mine, and have a video coming in a day or so, to discuss what I did, and my experience dealing with OKC. Spoiler alert, they never even responded.
@@lheastridge dang..... That is really unfortunate... Looks like OKCs former partner who made the knives? Knows what they're doing.... The same company went on to make Essee knives, correct?
Thanks for the heads up. Much appreciated.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching!
I would've split the difference and just bought Esse 4. The sheath is much nicer and handle. But the best thing is they really do stand by that warranty. Beat it to death, braek it when it gets too dull and just send it in for a brand new one. If you really want an Ontario go with the SP series. You might need to fix the factory edge bevel but theyre bulletproof.
I got the sp53 and rat7 from okc. I got my other tops and esee blades for better times as they are so bloody expensive now that it’s best to use your beater blades more and never touch your hood ones
I agree! It's a shame that American made has become nearly unaffordable. I have knives on my wishlist from both ESEE, and tops, but each year, along with the cost of living, they grow in price, and become more unattainable. That was one of the reasons I started this channel, to show viewers like me, affordable options. Thank you for watching!
Thank ya for the heads up I’ll go esee bud
Good decision. Thanks for watching!
Esee,Tops, White river are my main knives would like to get bark river ,harder to get the ones I want, less expensive knives Becker or Schrade. I have a large collection the above knives I've never had a problem with.
The esse I got with the contured handles
I've thought about trying Condor knives the kurki
Condor makes good stuff, and the kukri is an awesome blade, when you get used to it. If you haven't tried BPS Knives, I highly recommend them. Their bushlore blows Condor's away
@@lheastridge thanks i will check out BPS Knives
o no the Rat three with the brassy coloration is a very bad sign either over heat on that spot during heat treat or sat for too long in tempering
It was actually a little bit of coating that was left. A little alcohol and it wiped off
Sometimes a deal really is not a deal. You got such a good price maybe they were seconds or bad knives. I have a rat 3 and it is a nice knife.
The more I've researched, along with viewer comments, I've discovered that the quality control issues have become an issue within the past decade. Worse now, due to the decision to lower the grade of steel, the sheath quality, and I'm sure that line of thinking extended to nearly every aspect of their business. Make a quick stop at Bass Pro when you can, and take a look at the 3's and 5's that they offer, losing special attention to the edge grind; you'll see exactly what I'm saying. After some work, they're both great knives. Thanks for watching!
No Ontario knives for me .. Although .. you have a nice fat wood collection there.
I have an endless supply on my farm. I'll go out about twice a month and look for tap roots on deadfalls. I also keep an eye out when I'm camping, at the lake, etc.
I just got a Rat 7 and it was kinda shitty. I'm a machinist, though. Blade was straight, and heat treatment seems very good. I reprofiled the edge to 18-20 deg per side and honed/ stropped it. Sanded the scales to my liking, and now I love it.
I fixed both of mine, though by hand. Took forever but worth it. They're both fantastic now. Thanks for watching!
I just got a RAT 7 a month ago to replace my old one. I didn't notice right away but the grind is off. Not the edge, the actual grind, the geometry of the blade. I feel like I could have done a straighter job here with my own tools. I don't know what's going on over there but I'm extremely disappointed in Ontario. They used to be my favorite.
I feel your pain. I hope they wake up before it's too late. Thanks for watching!
Such a shame. I've always considered Ontario a great American knife company making good value, good quality knives for their price point, especially their RAT and Ranger series. I have a RAT 3 and an RTAK-II from about 2009 and they're both terrific. I'm currently in the market for about a 5-in knife in the Ontario Ranger style, but just can't consider Ontario because of their current quality issues. I hope they find their way back.
Unfortunately, this was my first experience with Ontario. It will absolutely be my last. I wish I could've experienced the quality they were known for, but I wouldn't take a chance on another one of their products. Thanks for watching!
Buyer's remorse sounds like a great reason to buy another knife... or three.
I agree, and that's exactly what I did. Thanks for watching!
They are all like that, even the folders.
I find that strange, considering their popularity. Seems like people would want better quality control. Thanks for watching
mine says Ontario USA on one side and RAT 5 on the other side
Mine did as well, until the coating came off during the first use
Spend the extra money on Tops or Esee . I love Ontario blades and always expect that I might need to fix an edge when they come. They are fun to work on but if ya want better ya gotta pay for it. I bought knives in that price range for many years always wanting a Tops or Esee. Yet instead of just paying the price I'd never pull the lever and keep dreaming.
Finally i just bought a Tops Brakimo and wish I had not wasted my money chasing the knives i really wanted.
Its worth spending the money ....
That said I still love buying lower cost knives and making them my own.
Ontario was just bought by another U.S owned company . Seems their plant will be moved so hopefully good changes are coming ESP sheaths and quality control.
Coating is Teflon for fero rods. They’re ESSE without the warranty
They're far from ESEE. I love my ESEE 6! Ontario has ruined the RAT line, for me personally. ESEE took a decent knife, with a good design, and made it great. I agree about the coating, though cold steel's srk can throw amazing sparks, with a similar coating. I still can't figure that one out. Thanks for watching!
I bought Ontario knife once... I'll never do this again.
Never seen such bad uneven grind. 1cm difference!!!
Waisted money.
I feel your pain. If you actually live in Poland, your pain was much worse after shipping. I like both knives, after hours of work, but that's a ridiculous statement. They turned out great; but that took hours of work, which included making new sheaths. My next big project, is to make my own. It will be a similar design, with a few tweaks, but done correctly. A proper knife, with a proper grind and sheath. I'm leaning towards 1095, kydex sheath, with a bow drill divot, perhaps a bearing, and a scandi grind. I plan to make 3. One with a modified scandi, and one with a saber grind. I'm not sure which will be better so I plan to try both. Thanks for watching!
@@lheastridge ~ Is this one of those new year statements? ^^
Anyway good luck!
Sort of lol. I love knives, but I modify every single one. I'm going to get some 1095 flat stock, cut my own design, and make the knife I've always wanted. I already have the design drawn, just have to decide on scales and whether or not to install a bearing for a bow drill. The latter depends on my efficiency with a bow drill. I've succeeded in a bow drill fire, but would like to be proficient in the skill. I may do two sets of scales, to give an option
I bought a Rat5 because it was more knifey and less trying to be a hatchet. It's still way too thick for a knife. Esee knives are 1/4" thick, I chose this one because the spine was a thinner 3/16". 20/20 hindsight, I would have bought a 5" blade with a 1/8" spine. I have an Esee Xancudo which I love, but the blade is just a bit short.
Pretty sure these are 1075 steel now. They changed from 1095 a few years back. I have both of these from 2012 and the fit and finish was way better than the ones you have.
I've heard that as well. I would only buy Ontario products from the past, since they seemed to care back then
Fit and finish on the Rat line used to be a lot better but they’re cutting so many corners now they’re basically project knives at this point . There’s a good reason Esee’s are double the price . I spent about four hours fixing all the issues on the Rat 5 I bought a few months back .
It's sad to see such a reputable company lose their way. Wish I could've tried some of the earlier stuff. I saw the 5 at bass pro last week, same issue, only they were $90. There are too many options these days for that type of negligence. Thanks for watching!
Same here. Got a Rat3 as a present. Took a few hours to regrind and sharpen it. Not impressed.
Me either. It's a shame to have to put so much work into what Ontario calls a finished product. Check out Holtzman's Bloodline; better steel, better fit and finish, better quality, and his customer service is the best I've seen. One of my favorite knives! I'll have a review for it soon. Thanks for watching!
knifeworks sells ESEE for $100
I've seen some good sales in the past, but haven't had the money at the time. Definitely on my wishlist
I bought an RD-6 from Ontario a couple years back and the tip was barely even ground. It was the most uneven bevel I've ever seen. I had to go in and grind Ina while new edge both sides and the tip had so much steel left on it it took probably 2 hours, by hand fixing it. Terrible quality control and bad customer service. They acted like it was my fault. A brand new knife. And tried to say I ADDED STEEL TO THE TIP. yeah... Don't buy anything from Ontario knife company, it's almost all trash for the price. They make schrade knives at twice the price.
I feel your pain, and learned the same lesson. When they go out of business, they'll learn theirs. Thanks for watching!
Personally I love Ontario and hope they continue to design good knives. I have an SP1 and a 499. Love both of em. I want a couple of Rats.
If you purchase a RAT, I suggest buying a used one. Save yourself the disappointment, because the new models are definitely projects, if you want it right
@@lheastridge Yeah they are strange in that regard. It's like they are lazy or something lol. I don't get why they wont improve quality
It's a shame, because they could be great
The story I was told about ESEE vs RAT. Randall contracted OKC to make his RAT knives. The contract ended and OKC kept making his knives. He sued, didn’t have enough money to continue the lawsuit so OKC is still making the RATs and Randall started ESEE. That’s the story I heard. I personally won’t buy OKC, just a dick move to me. I do have a few ESEEs.
I hadn't heard that, but if their willing to sell garbage to their customers, I wouldn't put it past them. They never even responded to my attempt at contact, so I have no respect remaining for them
Yup the one I got the edge was absolute garbage, and the sheath what a sh*tshow..embarrassing all the way around had to completely re profit the edge. Got it shaving sharp,and ordered an esse 3 sheath for it. We shall see how well it holds up over time.
Sorry you had the same experience. Mine have both done well, after tons of work. I'd send them back, if I could do it again. Lesson learned. Thanks for watching!
You do realize you can get a refund…
If I wanted to go through the trouble, I could. I shouldn't have to. The purpose is to show how sloppy Ontario has become. They've downgraded the sheath, the steel and overall quality. Thanks for watching
in the early 1970's up to its middle when you bought American made product you got perfect quality no matter what sadly not anymore today china's production is much better
It is truly sad
Still better than Chinese bull$hit any day you’re an idiot if you think otherwise.
Time will tell
@@TheFrenchmanCooks what are you talking about?
@@TheFrenchmanCooks wot u meen m8 Nuffink rong wiff nuffink
My rat 5 screws are magnetic
It throws sparks better than any knife in my collection
$50? from amazon…..its a fake
I wish that were true. Sadly it's what Ontario has reduced to. Same issues with the ones I've seen at bass pro as well
You might 've got China knock-off fake knives?
Unfortunately, no. That's just the level of quality we can expect from Ontario, after they downgraded the steel to 1075, and downgraded the sheaths. To them, money is priority number 1. Thanks for watching!
If you aren’t going to change the scales out then lock tight them that handle will never come off also idk how comfortable you are with heat treating but you could grind that edge back and re heat treat and temper just normalize the blades twice before you do so or you run a huge risk of stress fractures
I used the original scales and some thread locker. I have a video on the results if you'd like to check it out. Thanks for watching!
Sorry but the quality of ontario is really bad. I bought the CK2 which is a 12" saw back machete on amazon. I was disappointed with tbe blade finish. The blade was closer to an "unfinished" state than anything. I really had to spend time on it to correct and fix the blade. The only good ontario knife I have is a RAT1 that was a gift from my brother.
It's amazing that they're so popular, as a company. With QC like theirs, I'm surprised they're still in business. Thanks for watching!
ontario used to be my favourite brand but their quality has gone downhill hard,i dont feel like gambling my money on what i get if i buy one from them anymore,but there is so many good budget options out there now so there is no reason to.
I completely agree, and fear for their future, for those reasons. I'm sure a military contract has softened the blow, but those don't last forever. Thanks for watching!
Use a sharpening jig a put a better angle of a edge
I did it by hand, but ended up with an even edge, and a decent knife. Thanks for watching! 423 area code?
@@lheastridge not that was my bmx racing number plate as a kid. I use a jig also because I seem to never get the exact angle on both sides of the edge if I do it by hand
Just curious, since that's my area code
Buy a lionsteel T5 and it will be the best decision you ever made.
Far above my budget. Maybe one day though. Thanks for watching!
They're only about £30 more here in the UK and everything is usually cheaper in America. Might find a deal 👍
Lionsteel is definitely on my wishlist, along with bark river
Stopped buying fixed blade knives years ago. 99% are stamped blades junk. I make my own for me and my son.
I plan to one day, but still have a lot to learn. Thanks for watching
@@lheastridge you can buy blade blanks and finish making one. Just make sure you ask if the blanks are stamped cut out of sheet goods or are forged. Stamp cut usually means the metal is soft enough to cut without breaking but sheared.
@@timbow50 I've recently finished a blade blank from BPS Knives. Made a kydex sheath for it and g10 scales. I've also done some repair work and modifications on other knives. I always use hand tools so that I don't get the steel hot; if I have to use a grinder, I go slow and cool the blade after each pass. I have a few videos with some of the knives if you'd like to check them out
Need time stamps lol
Thanks for watching!
Boy you really prepare for your videos, not.