We are just at the (re)start of our camping/backpacking journey for our family, about a decade after doing some with Scouts. I've got to admit that we are going with the cheapest option for sleeping pads, (outfitting 4 people all at once), trying out 3 different accordion-style closed cell foam mats. Bought 2 of the Therm-a-Rest Z-Lite SOL (CA$77.95, on sale for CA$58.46), 2 of Woods brand from Canadian Tire (was CA$49.99 now CA$56.99 since the summer), and the CA$22.97 Ozark Trail option. Curiously, while unsurprisingly the Walmart one was the thinnest (not by that much though), both it and the Woods were wider - and thus more comfortable - than the Z-lite one. So my husband and I ended up snagging the mid-price option, giving over the Z-light to our teenage boys. The Ozark Trail one I'll probably cut up for sit-pads, or a height boost for our pillows (side-sleepers here). It may be one of the first things we upgrade in our gear, but our choices are much more limited in my part of Canada, and prices much higher. I've looked at the insulated Klymit ones, but as they were recently embroiled in a R-rating disaster (claiming something like 4-5 when it's actually more like 1.5), I find it hard to trust them. That reminds me, while overall an excellent & informative video, I do wish you'd mentioned that all ASTM ratings for sleeping bag warmth are based on pairing with a sleeping pad R-value of 5! Learning that was a HUGE eye-opener for me, and really forces you to more carefully consider what warmth bag/quilt you should be taking in any but summer conditions in order to be comfortable, and more importantly, safe. Thanks for another great gear review, even if I always feel FOMO seeing those Zenbivys...
You can also buy a budget friendly version of the Zenbivy system. It weighs more but it’s still pretty comfortable. I bought one about a year for less than $200 during the Christmas sale. That was without sleeping pad. I use Nemo All Season Tensor.
That Kelty bag was one of my first investments in replacing my "car camping gear that I can get away with squeezing in to a pack and walking a few miles" with something reasonably affordable but closer to actual backpacking gear and so far I love it
Love your stuff! I’m an old guy, in the 70 and 80 we had 3/8 insulate (R1-1.5) and 2 1/2 # down bag (no comfort ratings in those days). Sleeping on glaciers I summer and snow in winter. Shivering was just part of it. So glad those day are behind up. In the late 70 I upgraded to a Stevenson Warmlite down inflatable pad, super innovative for its day. All my buddies called me a wimp until they slept on it!!
Awesome video as always! Please, please test Decathlon stuff! They are huge, global, they are about the only hiking brand I can find in Brazil, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only viewer in whose country this is the reality! They've got a huge lineup, from budget, up to high quality stuff. They've got close cell foam pads, uninsulated inflatable, and even have 5 R value high quality pads. The same goes to the other stuff, they've got synthetic sleeping bags, down sleeping bags, merino wool gloves, shirts, hoodies, down jackets... seriously, they rock. If you are interested, I can tell you more about their lineup, since they are a little bit confusing with their product names
First, I have been a wilderness enthusiast since the late 70's and a wilderness survivalist since the early 80's. That said... you are right to consistently stress the importance of a good pad! As I always say, whether you're trying to survive or just be comfortable, you MUST get off the ground!! (or the hammock). As to sleep, sleep is MORE important than FOOD! So having the best sleep system you can afford is much more than a luxury.
As a Texas hiker/camper who has experienced several heat injuries I can 100% endorse LMNT as a hydration supplement. I began using it after hearing about it here. While using LMNT I no longer get massive cramps or feel the effects of dehydration when outside. It’s definitely the LMNT because I habitually drink at least 1 gallon of water each day. I always had trouble with heat injuries over a 30 year period until I added LMNT to my hydration routine. Thanks Eric.
He's absolutely right about your sleep quality changing your camp experience. I personally enjoy a rougher night out as my family are the type to lifestyle camp and bushcraft over hiking, so the walmart egg crate mats were standard. I'm happy with the quality i get from it, but if you get a 20 dollar matt you can expect your sleep quality to be lackluster. If you're new to backpacking or camping in general, the one place I tell people to never skimp is your sleep option. You can make a 40 dollar hiking tent work. You can skimp and cut corners on a cheap 15 dollar burner stove. Heck, you could even decide that a proper bag is too much money and get away with a canvas tarp wrapping all your gear (though your back and shoulders will be mad at you), none of that will break a fun weekend faster than getting no sleep. Do yourself a favor, spend at least 200 on your sleep solution, and figure out where to save elsewhere.
Took a friend camping the first time a few years ago. 2 things made the trip for her. Good food and good bed. We were car camping so the full 10inch airbed came with.
I have the $20 Ozark Trail eggshell pad and I think it's great! I suspect it's of similar value to Thermarest and Nemo's closed cell foam offerings. Mine (chopped a few panels off) weighs 328 grams which is almost half the weight of my "legit" (and much comfier) 4 seasons backpacking pad @ 538 grams but it's definitely workable especially on those little 2-3 dayer outings. When I'm in weight weenie mode (backpacking usually) I grab the Ozark pad, my $150 538 gram Big Agnes pad gets my choice for bikepacking or cold weather backpacking and I have an even heavier 1 kilogram, $40 budget pad that I believe to be the most comfy of all the pads I own but only gets used for motorbike and 4x4 camping. If find it ironic that my budget pads get more use than my expensive pad.
more comfortable, and itâs also not a big deal, which makes me feel relieved. I love a good kislux because it helps me decide if I want to buy the real thing. Thatâs the part. Thatâs it. I feel like people discriminate against knockoffs, but for me, I pause when I buy trendy stuff in bulk or when I feel the over-consumption frenzy is coming for me. (This is something I struggle with, haha! I can be easily convinced to buy things I donât wear or use. They literally have tags on them and Iâll forget I even bought something and Iâll still have 2 or 3 of those in my closet.) Love this video!
Great comparison up and down the line from budget to bougie. I bought my first quilt with 850 fill power down and 20 degree rating and am blown away by how warm and cozy it is. The comfort really kicks in over that $400 mark. But it is night and day difference in warmth and comfort. Great content Eric.
Hello Eric! Fantastic comparisons here. I just wanted to comment on the Outdoor Vitals Summit bag. I have the 0 degree version and like it very much. However, I don't really like the center zip. I found it sinks down and reduces the loft creating a cool spot, even with the high quality draft tubes. It is also more difficult for me to get in and out of (I'm 61 years old:). That said, I still find it to be a fantastic bag. I also own the Nemo Tensor all-season wide pad. It is very warm and comfortable as well. Thanks for the awesome video and keep them coming!
My regular bed mattress didn’t cost much more than the Zin Bivy sleep system. I spent 21 years in our military using those sleep systems, which kept us alive but not comfortable. However we slept and worked hard the next day. My thought is that the typical camper, remember I said typical, will not ever consider a $1,100 sleep system. We want them but we simply cannot justify the expense when there are numerous systems that provide all we need to get our sleep on the trail. You’re really doing the typical hiker/camper a great service with these comparison videos. You have the experience of using any setup you want, regardless of cost so you can give an honest comparison. People must realize that cost can equate to comfort or quality but not always. Sometimes the cost is a result of fewer sales and more expensive manufacturing costs due to being a niche item. My biggest problem in the hiking realm is that I live in Texas and there is very little equipment that works for us in our hot/humid climate.
I was in the market for a more expensive option recently, ended up going with a western mountaineering bag. Love it. Too hot for the night I took it on recently haha
I have been watching you for so long and I was literally just talking about how I would love if you made videos us cheap asses !!!!!!! You are now again my new fav hiker...again...lol thanks Brosef !!!!
I also recommend the Sierra Design 0 degree 850 down bag. It is on sale from $375 to $250 for this month. It is amazing and ive had it on cold trips and it is super warm and it has arm holes. It weighs not so light but 1lb 15oz packed weight is not bad.
If I need to minimise my expense on a piece of gear my strategy is to find out what was the best product about 3 or 4 years ago and buy that. After that time, they are usually at the end of their availability, and you can get a great deal. If I needed a new pad on a budget now I would look for a STS eitherlight XT. Getting old but so bloody comfortable. Or the original thermorest xtherm. I will never negotiate on my quilt, Neve gear quilts for me.
Great Video Eric showing some different tiers of mattresses and bags. If you want the same experience of the Zenbivy UL by adding some weight and shaving costs check out the light bed or core bed.
man iv had that exact featherstone tent for aboit 2 years now. mainly use it with my daughter since its bright n you gotta do what ya gotta do when hoaxing a 6yr old into camping somethmes lol but everytime we use it im seriously blown away by its quality at 110$. rank it right up there with some of my higher priced tents! glad to see it getting some recognition!
Currently, my entire sleep system leans towards the more expensive end even though I'm using a middle price point R 5.0 sleeping pad from Kilos Gear that is also in the $140 area. It has a dimpled design very similar to the Zenbivi pad, but it's 25" wide, 4" thick and very comfortable. I have that paired with a 10*F UGQ Bandit quilt in the extra-wide and tall version, open footbox with draft collars at the neck and toes. It's non tapered and can be opened up to a flat blanket/quilt if desired. It's 850 FP down, and cost just over $500. I also use a Sea to Summit Reactor (regular) sleeping bag liner that cost right at $80. Then I have a Kilos Gear inflatable pillow that actually has a pad strap to keep it from floating all over the tent. - I do also have a much more budget friendly 0*F mummy sleeping bag that I think is 550 FP down from Paria that I like but find just a little snug for a side sleeper like me, but it is quite serviceable. Thanks for the video, I watched all the way though.
Good morning!!! 🌄 Loving the budget gear videos. I am always looking for good less expensive gear. Sometimes buy once cry once still applies with some peices of kit.❤😊
You left out the Nemo Tensor Extreme Conditions sleeping pad. I used this pad with the Zen Bivy system you described and it truly knocked it out of the park at 20 degrees. Almost too heavy for the temperature. I don’t know how far down it will go but I intend to find out with the Scouts.
Good info! Absolutely LOVE my exped 9…a little heavy, but well worth the warmth. Have used this for 9 years paired with my zero degree down Kelty(10 years old). Just finished a hike with 24F night time temp…and I’m a cold sleeper. I may have to try a new sleep system in the future though! Again, TY!
Nemo Tensor has been my go to for around 5 years. I use the regular wide and almost always sleep well. It is pricey for sure, but... their support is impeccable. I had an issue with a pad a few years back and Nemo replaced it out of warranty. That was unexpected. If temps are going to be really cold as in under 25 F, then I'll pair with a Nemo closed cell mat to add a couple of R values. Or with a Garage Grown Gear foam pad for an additional R value. The foam pad doubles as an extra layer but also as a pad protector. It weighs next to nothing and straps easily to the outside of my pack.
I have the Flextail and had it in -6c here in Australia last winter and felt a bit of a chill coming thru it. Was paired with a quilt and wearing Merino leggings and top. As for an alternative to Zenbivvy, picked up the sleep system from RockFront from Ukraine. Still to use it, but picked it up for 2.5 season as i don't think it'll perform for shoulders before and after winter.
Also used gear. My kid is in scouts and he has had a heavy synthetic bag. He’ll be heading to Philmont, so I found him a used rei magma 15 for $136. It’s in perfect condition. Packs down to nothing and weighs 2 lbs. it’s crazy narrow but so is he, and he’s a kid who sleeps like a rock on his foam pad.
Just to clarify, and I only know because I wrote to the company to specifically ask, Pariah is pronounce Pah Ree Ahh, like the name Maria (not like Mariah Carey, but like Maria Shriver). I asked because a pariah is defined as a person who is rejected or despised by society. An outcast. I always thought that was a weird name for a company, but as an outdoor company, maybe not? But yeah, Pah Ree Ahh. I own this pad and their quilt as well. Great budget combo!
I have a flextail zero that ended up going to the kids or for people to use....I upgraded to the zenbivy light 10 degree 30 inch system. Definitely not light but it is so comfortable. I do also put an exped flexmat long wide under it for addition support... I'm a big guy at 6'2 280 lbs.
Sierra Designs zipperless bag is still probably my favorite with Zen Bivvy close behind. They function similarly, but Sierra has no hooks. So it's easier for someone like me that wakes up and movies around a lot at night. I can just throw the top part off without having to mess with anything.
My BIGGEST complain with the recharge XL is the 23 inch width. You wouldn’t think this is the case, but those extra 2 inches to a 2 inch pad are HUGE. The paria pad requires me to tuck my arms in and prevents me from comfortably tossing and turning, the REI helix feels like a mansion with the extra 2 inches of width.
Problem I had with the Klymit static V is it would not hold air, even for 1 night. Tested & retested in the bathtub full of soapy water test, couldn’t find any thing except must have been the fill valve leaking when under pressure. Now I’ve slept on a concrete floor in a storm emergency, & use a VERY firm mattress at home but could not tolerate the Klymit going flat in middle of the night - personal experience.
in my opinion the best setup in the budget range is the Naturhike air mattress with an R value of 4.6 (-20C°limit) for 50$ Decathlon sleeping bag ratet for -5 C° for 75$ in Total 125$ the prices are sale prices if you have a little patience you can find the mattress for 50 otherwise it costs 70-80 with the setup you can sleep in the snow and the whole thing is relatively light and relatively small I have it in a 30 L backpack with the rest of my equipment (tent clothes food drink ec)
I feel like if you're getting into the $300+ range you could get a custom American made quilt with 7d-10d fabric and 850-950 fill down and get something super high quality, lighter, and more packable than going with the bigger corporate brands.
Please test the Gear Doctor Apollo Air sleeping pad. At a $90 (25oz) for the large version, it claims an R value of 5.2! I would love to get your take on this sleeping pad.
I recently picked up a Big Agnes Diamond Park 0° "sleep system" in a sale that is similar in design to the zenbivy. It's quite heavy and bulky and probably not perfect for backpacking but it's hopefully going to be great for me motorcycle camping! I get so cold so easily but as a larger girl the mummy bags are just horrible to use. Hope this is the answer I'm looking for! I paid £250 in the UK.
I want to pick up a Zen body ultra but watching an interview they stated they might make the ultra light cheaper. I’m contemplating on buying this version or waiting for next iteration.
Have you had a chance to try out the new Therma rest Neo Loft. Is the extra weight and $$worth it? Vs the Exped 5R backpacking for an over 50 yo. I tried it in REI and it feels like my bed at home
A lot of hikers sleep in merino long sleeves and merino pants. When it's cold, also a (down) jacket. Or just their spare set of clothing. Not to forget: warm socks!
In summer I carry incredibly light cotton pants, and use my sun hoodie. It's nice to have a clean change when you've been sweating buckets. But in the winter I have alpha direct hoodie and pants. (and I'm going to get socks too!) This stuff is hands down the best thing that's hit hiking since Dyneema. It's crazy light, and mega warm. If it was to get crazy crazy cold, definitely throwing on all my clothes including my down jacket, buff, and zipping up to the Max. I love winter camping, so that's happened a couple of times.
@erichanson Do you think mixing the Flextail Zero Mattress with the Zenbivy Ultralight Quilt and Sheet would be a better combo than all-in with all components from Zenbivy? It seems like this Flextail/Zenbivy combo brings together each of the pieces you spoke most highly of in the video. Thoughts?
Thank you so much for the overview! It looks like Flextail does not have a 78 inch option. It seems similar to the Zenbivy light mattress. Do you think that the Zenbivy light mattress is more comfortable than the ultralight even though it does not pack down as well?
Tried those foam mats and can’t not stand them as a side sleeper. For my boys scout camps I bought a “camping mattress pad” from Amazon that inflates to 5 inches and probably had a r value of 1 but with my old Coleman sleeping bag and now my Nemo disco 30 I have not felt cold even when it got in the 40s. Now they are looking at sub zero camps so time to upgrade.
Don’t understand why none of you guys talk about the Big Agnes Anvil Horn bags. You can get their 15-degree bag for around $200, it’s 2.5lbs, super roomy, straps onto the pad with a sheet like a Zenbivy, pillow barn, good zips, very comfy, packs down small, and just a great overall value. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on it. But yeah to go from the Kelty to the Outdoor Vitals at over double the cost without mentioning this bag in between them just seems like a crime. It’s the best bang for buck.
Also the Big Agnes Rapide SL is a great choice for a pad. Little heavier/bulkier than the Nemo pads, but the dimples are better and I’ve never been cold on mine.
Good matteress and pillow, followed closely by a good bag/quilt is core to a good backpacking trip (or any camping trip for that matter). Poor sleep makes for misery.
Good info. The only thing I often see is that the Klymit Static V insulated is ignored for the non insulated. The insulated version is R4.4 and weighs 24oz. Cost is just shy of $88. I have used the static v insulated for 3 nights in Glacier and 3 nights in Yellowstone and cannot complain.
That 4.4R value is a lie. When they astm rated their similar insulated pads, it got a 2R rating. They still haven't updated their rating for the main pad and you can see many people complaining about the pad being too cold. Scummy company Imo
The insulated version is not much better than the uninsulated version. It markets itself as 4+ R value but it's been tested to be only about 2. For the $80+ it costs I'd go for other options.
If the Walmart foam pad is so cheap, why not pair it with any of the other mattresses to bump up the consolidated R-Values & maybe prevent punctures? Only ads +$20 to the total price - assuming added bulk & weight isn’t much of a problem of course , maybe option for designated type camping
adding a closed cell foam mattress IS a great way to add R value and protect your air mattress. This cheapo one from Walmart is more bulky than some other options but the price is right.
I've tried it, and it's claimed too. But in reality what happens is, the sides are not getting stacked. So the cold air is still getting into the side of the cold pad that's placed on top and you still feel cold. The only stacking that I've found works, is to place a closed foam cell on top on your air pad. This stays 2R more and it actually works. Feels kinda odd to lay on, not uncomfortable, just odd, but it's warm. If you try putting the closed foam on bottom and sleeping on the air pad, it's far colder, cus of those sides exposed to the cold air still. You get used to odd feeling of sleeping on the foam on top of the air easy enough, since it's warm.
As my grandfather would have said- I wouldn’t pay that to see a piss ant eat a bale of hay. Still using my ancient Camp 7 down bag and foam mat. A Nemo or Thermarest is on the short list.
I think the Aegismax bag is in the same ballpark as the Kelty Cosmic 20. It's a nice warm and light bag, but it's a tiny bit cramped. Opt for the size long if you're about 6' tall.
I have the original 10f lightbed quilt from Zen and honestly it's one of my regrettable purchases. I could've gotten the same rating, lesser weight, customizable colors at the same price from EE. Junk is like 32 oz. Your quilt just shouldn't weigh more than your shelter out of principle. Imagine your blanket at home weighing more than your house, its bonkers
i am missing at least one more bed system options. it is unfair to jump from standard sleeping bags directly to ZenBivy. if video was for example with RockFront bed system included it was much better not only due to being bed system but it is like budget version of ZenBivy which is still very good.
Not a fan of Klymit as a company TBH. They are really deceptive about their insulated sleeping pad. They advertise it as a 4R, but it astm tests closer to a 2R and there are lots of complaints about it sleeping cold
VERY dishonest. I would NEVER support them. This kind of deception gets people in big trouble miles in the woods, counting on a rating to stay alive. No one should be promoting them, EVER.
✌️👶🚬 Better than those silver space blankets developed by NASA for certain. You'd think they'd have an ultralight 5 oz hay bale by now..... course I suppose weight shouldn't matter up there
You are better off spending money on puffy jacket and long drawers. Your bottom of the line is fine for 3 season camping. The extra few pounds is hardly noticeable with a decent pack. A jacket is 24 hour insulation. If you can't endure a little cold, stay home.
Save $700 and get a Katabatic Quilt instead of the Zenbivy. Really comfy and probably far better quality. The nemo is not remotely worth it lol; trust me, I have one.
I don't know why Zenbivy still make it in a white color. Backpacking usually happens in conditons with either mud/dust or wet dirt. And still white, seriously???
But focus groups and UA-cam instructional clearly demonstrate that the audience resonates with versus style overly cartoonish punchy visuals (I know it's so regimented and rigidly structured, stop following templates and originate something)
Even when the real and fake are placed side by side, it is hard to tell them apart. You have to do this kind of forensic level investigation, which only shows that the fake kislux is very impressive and the real thing is really not worth the price. In fact, I am very disappointed with Chanel's poor quality in recent years and their customer service is terrible. The fakes look good at the moment
$160 is budget? No way is that "budget". That is like the people saying fishnet shirts are the best. No way am I paying $100 for a shirt that is 90% holes. Because people don't think. They just spend money because someone said, "This is the best!". I came here because of the title however, I don't feel like $200 for sleeping on is budget.
We are just at the (re)start of our camping/backpacking journey for our family, about a decade after doing some with Scouts. I've got to admit that we are going with the cheapest option for sleeping pads, (outfitting 4 people all at once), trying out 3 different accordion-style closed cell foam mats. Bought 2 of the Therm-a-Rest Z-Lite SOL (CA$77.95, on sale for CA$58.46), 2 of Woods brand from Canadian Tire (was CA$49.99 now CA$56.99 since the summer), and the CA$22.97 Ozark Trail option. Curiously, while unsurprisingly the Walmart one was the thinnest (not by that much though), both it and the Woods were wider - and thus more comfortable - than the Z-lite one. So my husband and I ended up snagging the mid-price option, giving over the Z-light to our teenage boys. The Ozark Trail one I'll probably cut up for sit-pads, or a height boost for our pillows (side-sleepers here). It may be one of the first things we upgrade in our gear, but our choices are much more limited in my part of Canada, and prices much higher. I've looked at the insulated Klymit ones, but as they were recently embroiled in a R-rating disaster (claiming something like 4-5 when it's actually more like 1.5), I find it hard to trust them. That reminds me, while overall an excellent & informative video, I do wish you'd mentioned that all ASTM ratings for sleeping bag warmth are based on pairing with a sleeping pad R-value of 5! Learning that was a HUGE eye-opener for me, and really forces you to more carefully consider what warmth bag/quilt you should be taking in any but summer conditions in order to be comfortable, and more importantly, safe. Thanks for another great gear review, even if I always feel FOMO seeing those Zenbivys...
I just can’t see why you don’t have 800k followers! You do an awesome job brother and we all appreciate all you do!! Thank you!!
Well said. Couldn’t agree more.
You can also buy a budget friendly version of the Zenbivy system. It weighs more but it’s still pretty comfortable. I bought one about a year for less than $200 during the Christmas sale. That was without sleeping pad. I use Nemo All Season Tensor.
That Kelty bag was one of my first investments in replacing my "car camping gear that I can get away with squeezing in to a pack and walking a few miles" with something reasonably affordable but closer to actual backpacking gear and so far I love it
Love your stuff! I’m an old guy, in the 70 and 80 we had 3/8 insulate (R1-1.5) and 2 1/2 # down bag (no comfort ratings in those days). Sleeping on glaciers I summer and snow in winter. Shivering was just part of it. So glad those day are behind up. In the late 70 I upgraded to a Stevenson Warmlite down inflatable pad, super innovative for its day. All my buddies called me a wimp until they slept on it!!
Awesome video as always! Please, please test Decathlon stuff! They are huge, global, they are about the only hiking brand I can find in Brazil, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only viewer in whose country this is the reality! They've got a huge lineup, from budget, up to high quality stuff. They've got close cell foam pads, uninsulated inflatable, and even have 5 R value high quality pads. The same goes to the other stuff, they've got synthetic sleeping bags, down sleeping bags, merino wool gloves, shirts, hoodies, down jackets... seriously, they rock. If you are interested, I can tell you more about their lineup, since they are a little bit confusing with their product names
+1
@MirandaGoesOutside channel has done a whole backpacking trip with Decathlon gear. Check it out.
Yes Check Out Decathlon, please!
First, I have been a wilderness enthusiast since the late 70's and a wilderness survivalist since the early 80's. That said...
you are right to consistently stress the importance of a good pad! As I always say, whether you're trying to survive or just be comfortable, you MUST get off the ground!! (or the hammock).
As to sleep, sleep is MORE important than FOOD! So having the best sleep system you can afford is much more than a luxury.
As a Texas hiker/camper who has experienced several heat injuries I can 100% endorse LMNT as a hydration supplement. I began using it after hearing about it here. While using LMNT I no longer get massive cramps or feel the effects of dehydration when outside. It’s definitely the LMNT because I habitually drink at least 1 gallon of water each day. I always had trouble with heat injuries over a 30 year period until I added LMNT to my hydration routine.
Thanks Eric.
He's absolutely right about your sleep quality changing your camp experience. I personally enjoy a rougher night out as my family are the type to lifestyle camp and bushcraft over hiking, so the walmart egg crate mats were standard. I'm happy with the quality i get from it, but if you get a 20 dollar matt you can expect your sleep quality to be lackluster. If you're new to backpacking or camping in general, the one place I tell people to never skimp is your sleep option. You can make a 40 dollar hiking tent work. You can skimp and cut corners on a cheap 15 dollar burner stove. Heck, you could even decide that a proper bag is too much money and get away with a canvas tarp wrapping all your gear (though your back and shoulders will be mad at you), none of that will break a fun weekend faster than getting no sleep. Do yourself a favor, spend at least 200 on your sleep solution, and figure out where to save elsewhere.
Took a friend camping the first time a few years ago. 2 things made the trip for her. Good food and good bed. We were car camping so the full 10inch airbed came with.
The lack of whining self pity made this video watchable. Thank you, I appreciate the quality information.
I have the $20 Ozark Trail eggshell pad and I think it's great! I suspect it's of similar value to Thermarest and Nemo's closed cell foam offerings. Mine (chopped a few panels off) weighs 328 grams which is almost half the weight of my "legit" (and much comfier) 4 seasons backpacking pad @ 538 grams but it's definitely workable especially on those little 2-3 dayer outings.
When I'm in weight weenie mode (backpacking usually) I grab the Ozark pad, my $150 538 gram Big Agnes pad gets my choice for bikepacking or cold weather backpacking and I have an even heavier 1 kilogram, $40 budget pad that I believe to be the most comfy of all the pads I own but only gets used for motorbike and 4x4 camping.
If find it ironic that my budget pads get more use than my expensive pad.
more comfortable, and itâs also not a big deal, which makes me feel relieved. I love a good kislux because it helps me decide if I want to buy the real thing. Thatâs the part. Thatâs it. I feel like people discriminate against knockoffs, but for me, I pause when I buy trendy stuff in bulk or when I feel the over-consumption frenzy is coming for me. (This is something I struggle with, haha! I can be easily convinced to buy things I donât wear or use. They literally have tags on them and Iâll forget I even bought something and Iâll still have 2 or 3 of those in my closet.) Love this video!
The Kelty cosmic down is a really good bag for the price.
I am at the beginning stages of setting up my backpacking gear. Your videos are amazing and informative. Thank you!
Great comparison up and down the line from budget to bougie. I bought my first quilt with 850 fill power down and 20 degree rating and am blown away by how warm and cozy it is. The comfort really kicks in over that $400 mark. But it is night and day difference in warmth and comfort. Great content Eric.
Outstanding review. A setup for every budget.
Excellent helpful video as usual!
Hello Eric! Fantastic comparisons here. I just wanted to comment on the Outdoor Vitals Summit bag. I have the 0 degree version and like it very much. However, I don't really like the center zip. I found it sinks down and reduces the loft creating a cool spot, even with the high quality draft tubes. It is also more difficult for me to get in and out of (I'm 61 years old:). That said, I still find it to be a fantastic bag. I also own the Nemo Tensor all-season wide pad. It is very warm and comfortable as well. Thanks for the awesome video and keep them coming!
My regular bed mattress didn’t cost much more than the Zin Bivy sleep system. I spent 21 years in our military using those sleep systems, which kept us alive but not comfortable. However we slept and worked hard the next day. My thought is that the typical camper, remember I said typical, will not ever consider a $1,100 sleep system. We want them but we simply cannot justify the expense when there are numerous systems that provide all we need to get our sleep on the trail.
You’re really doing the typical hiker/camper a great service with these comparison videos. You have the experience of using any setup you want, regardless of cost so you can give an honest comparison.
People must realize that cost can equate to comfort or quality but not always. Sometimes the cost is a result of fewer sales and more expensive manufacturing costs due to being a niche item.
My biggest problem in the hiking realm is that I live in Texas and there is very little equipment that works for us in our hot/humid climate.
I was in the market for a more expensive option recently, ended up going with a western mountaineering bag. Love it. Too hot for the night I took it on recently haha
I have two Zin Bivy's and yes its that comfortable.
I have been watching you for so long and I was literally just talking about how I would love if you made videos us cheap asses !!!!!!! You are now again my new fav hiker...again...lol thanks Brosef !!!!
I also recommend the Sierra Design 0 degree 850 down bag. It is on sale from $375 to $250 for this month. It is amazing and ive had it on cold trips and it is super warm and it has arm holes. It weighs not so light but 1lb 15oz packed weight is not bad.
Thanks for sharing great options at different price points!
Our quests for a good sleeping system will probably never end, but thanks for the helpful information!
Thermarest ridge rest classic sleeping pad.
$30
Thick enough and light enough for literally anything.
Get this pad over ANY other
If I need to minimise my expense on a piece of gear my strategy is to find out what was the best product about 3 or 4 years ago and buy that. After that time, they are usually at the end of their availability, and you can get a great deal. If I needed a new pad on a budget now I would look for a STS eitherlight XT. Getting old but so bloody comfortable. Or the original thermorest xtherm.
I will never negotiate on my quilt, Neve gear quilts for me.
Very helpful! Thanks 😊
Great Video Eric showing some different tiers of mattresses and bags. If you want the same experience of the Zenbivy UL by adding some weight and shaving costs check out the light bed or core bed.
man iv had that exact featherstone tent for aboit 2 years now. mainly use it with my daughter since its bright n you gotta do what ya gotta do when hoaxing a 6yr old into camping somethmes lol but everytime we use it im seriously blown away by its quality at 110$. rank it right up there with some of my higher priced tents! glad to see it getting some recognition!
Currently, my entire sleep system leans towards the more expensive end even though I'm using a middle price point R 5.0 sleeping pad from Kilos Gear that is also in the $140 area. It has a dimpled design very similar to the Zenbivi pad, but it's 25" wide, 4" thick and very comfortable. I have that paired with a 10*F UGQ Bandit quilt in the extra-wide and tall version, open footbox with draft collars at the neck and toes. It's non tapered and can be opened up to a flat blanket/quilt if desired. It's 850 FP down, and cost just over $500. I also use a Sea to Summit Reactor (regular) sleeping bag liner that cost right at $80. Then I have a Kilos Gear inflatable pillow that actually has a pad strap to keep it from floating all over the tent. - I do also have a much more budget friendly 0*F mummy sleeping bag that I think is 550 FP down from Paria that I like but find just a little snug for a side sleeper like me, but it is quite serviceable.
Thanks for the video, I watched all the way though.
Good morning!!! 🌄 Loving the budget gear videos. I am always looking for good less expensive gear. Sometimes buy once cry once still applies with some peices of kit.❤😊
You left out the Nemo Tensor Extreme Conditions sleeping pad. I used this pad with the Zen Bivy system you described and it truly knocked it out of the park at 20 degrees. Almost too heavy for the temperature. I don’t know how far down it will go but I intend to find out with the Scouts.
Good info! Absolutely LOVE my exped 9…a little heavy, but well worth the warmth. Have used this for 9 years paired with my zero degree down Kelty(10 years old). Just finished a hike with 24F night time temp…and I’m a cold sleeper. I may have to try a new sleep system in the future though! Again, TY!
Nemo Tensor has been my go to for around 5 years. I use the regular wide and almost always sleep well. It is pricey for sure, but... their support is impeccable. I had an issue with a pad a few years back and Nemo replaced it out of warranty. That was unexpected. If temps are going to be really cold as in under 25 F, then I'll pair with a Nemo closed cell mat to add a couple of R values. Or with a Garage Grown Gear foam pad for an additional R value. The foam pad doubles as an extra layer but also as a pad protector. It weighs next to nothing and straps easily to the outside of my pack.
I have the Flextail and had it in -6c here in Australia last winter and felt a bit of a chill coming thru it. Was paired with a quilt and wearing Merino leggings and top.
As for an alternative to Zenbivvy, picked up the sleep system from RockFront from Ukraine. Still to use it, but picked it up for 2.5 season as i don't think it'll perform for shoulders before and after winter.
Also used gear. My kid is in scouts and he has had a heavy synthetic bag. He’ll be heading to Philmont, so I found him a used rei magma 15 for $136. It’s in perfect condition. Packs down to nothing and weighs 2 lbs. it’s crazy narrow but so is he, and he’s a kid who sleeps like a rock on his foam pad.
Just to clarify, and I only know because I wrote to the company to specifically ask, Pariah is pronounce Pah Ree Ahh, like the name Maria (not like Mariah Carey, but like Maria Shriver). I asked because a pariah is defined as a person who is rejected or despised by society. An outcast. I always thought that was a weird name for a company, but as an outdoor company, maybe not? But yeah, Pah Ree Ahh. I own this pad and their quilt as well. Great budget combo!
Great way to start the morning, gosh darn!
I have a flextail zero that ended up going to the kids or for people to use....I upgraded to the zenbivy light 10 degree 30 inch system. Definitely not light but it is so comfortable. I do also put an exped flexmat long wide under it for addition support... I'm a big guy at 6'2 280 lbs.
Sierra Designs zipperless bag is still probably my favorite with Zen Bivvy close behind. They function similarly, but Sierra has no hooks. So it's easier for someone like me that wakes up and movies around a lot at night. I can just throw the top part off without having to mess with anything.
Which one do you have?
@@tinamarchant5155 Which Zenbivy? It's last year's version. It's the 25 degree light quilt, not the ultra light one he has in the video.
Love my Zenbivy, even though it's not the ultralight but the much less expensive light version...
My BIGGEST complain with the recharge XL is the 23 inch width. You wouldn’t think this is the case, but those extra 2 inches to a 2 inch pad are HUGE. The paria pad requires me to tuck my arms in and prevents me from comfortably tossing and turning, the REI helix feels like a mansion with the extra 2 inches of width.
Problem I had with the Klymit static V is it would not hold air, even for 1 night. Tested & retested in the bathtub full of soapy water test, couldn’t find any thing except must have been the fill valve leaking when under pressure. Now I’ve slept on a concrete floor in a storm emergency, & use a VERY firm mattress at home but could not tolerate the Klymit going flat in middle of the night - personal experience.
Sleeping bag: Mountain hardwear bishop pass (Mummy style! ;)
Sleeping pad: Nemo Tensor Alpine Wide version
Nemo Tensor Extreme and my ZenBivy bed. Absolutely stellar sleep system. Costs a stupid amount of money....but I refuse to cheap out on sleep.
I went for a disco 15 I got on clearance and an exped ultra 3r. The bag is kinda heavy but I couldn’t argue with the price to quality ratio.
Great video bud!
in my opinion the best setup in the budget range is the
Naturhike air mattress with an R value of 4.6 (-20C°limit) for 50$
Decathlon sleeping bag ratet for -5 C° for 75$
in Total 125$
the prices are sale prices if you have a little patience you can find the mattress for 50 otherwise it costs 70-80
with the setup you can sleep in the snow and the whole thing is relatively light and relatively small
I have it in a 30 L backpack with the rest of my equipment (tent clothes food drink ec)
the prices are converted from euros to dollars
I come from Germany ^^
I feel like if you're getting into the $300+ range you could get a custom American made quilt with 7d-10d fabric and 850-950 fill down and get something super high quality, lighter, and more packable than going with the bigger corporate brands.
Please test the Gear Doctor Apollo Air sleeping pad. At a $90 (25oz) for the large version, it claims an R value of 5.2! I would love to get your take on this sleeping pad.
I recently picked up a Big Agnes Diamond Park 0° "sleep system" in a sale that is similar in design to the zenbivy. It's quite heavy and bulky and probably not perfect for backpacking but it's hopefully going to be great for me motorcycle camping! I get so cold so easily but as a larger girl the mummy bags are just horrible to use. Hope this is the answer I'm looking for! I paid £250 in the UK.
Another good budget mattress is kilos gear 😊
What pump sack can I use with the flextail matteress?
I think they prefer using they pump :)
REI Trailmade at $100 is another very solid option, and warm! Rated to 20 F lower limit I believe.
Oooh nice! You sure you're familiar with REI stuff though??
@ I have been known, from time to time, to wander into an REI and then work there for fours years 🤣
20 Degree Kelty Cosmic Ultra 800 Fill power is on sale for $146. Weighs 2.35 lbs, so cheaper and lighter than the one in your video.
Love the comfort and budget of the Klymit pads.
Anyone know if they are getting their R value piece sorted out?
I want to pick up a Zen body ultra but watching an interview they stated they might make the ultra light cheaper. I’m contemplating on buying this version or waiting for next iteration.
Want to see flextail do a wide long of their pad, only a wide regular currently
Have you had a chance to try out the new Therma rest Neo Loft. Is the extra weight and $$worth it? Vs the Exped 5R backpacking for an over 50 yo. I tried it in REI and it feels like my bed at home
No one ever talks about pajamas. Do you sleep in a t-shirt or a hoodie? With socks on? Good pajama could improve the warmth at night.
A lot of hikers sleep in merino long sleeves and merino pants. When it's cold, also a (down) jacket. Or just their spare set of clothing. Not to forget: warm socks!
In summer I carry incredibly light cotton pants, and use my sun hoodie. It's nice to have a clean change when you've been sweating buckets. But in the winter I have alpha direct hoodie and pants. (and I'm going to get socks too!) This stuff is hands down the best thing that's hit hiking since Dyneema. It's crazy light, and mega warm.
If it was to get crazy crazy cold, definitely throwing on all my clothes including my down jacket, buff, and zipping up to the Max.
I love winter camping, so that's happened a couple of times.
@@e.k.4508this is how I do it. 👍
@erichanson Do you think mixing the Flextail Zero Mattress with the Zenbivy Ultralight Quilt and Sheet would be a better combo than all-in with all components from Zenbivy? It seems like this Flextail/Zenbivy combo brings together each of the pieces you spoke most highly of in the video. Thoughts?
NEMO sleeping pad NEMO sleeping bag NEMO tent ⛺️ that’s my set up
Nice! .. What models?
Thank you so much for the overview! It looks like Flextail does not have a 78 inch option. It seems similar to the Zenbivy light mattress. Do you think that the Zenbivy light mattress is more comfortable than the ultralight even though it does not pack down as well?
Was hoping the kilos gear pad would make in into this
The Zenbivy UL Bed link goes to the Nemo Riff, just FYI.
Tried those foam mats and can’t not stand them as a side sleeper. For my boys scout camps I bought a “camping mattress pad” from Amazon that inflates to 5 inches and probably had a r value of 1 but with my old Coleman sleeping bag and now my Nemo disco 30 I have not felt cold even when it got in the 40s. Now they are looking at sub zero camps so time to upgrade.
Don’t understand why none of you guys talk about the Big Agnes Anvil Horn bags. You can get their 15-degree bag for around $200, it’s 2.5lbs, super roomy, straps onto the pad with a sheet like a Zenbivy, pillow barn, good zips, very comfy, packs down small, and just a great overall value. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on it. But yeah to go from the Kelty to the Outdoor Vitals at over double the cost without mentioning this bag in between them just seems like a crime. It’s the best bang for buck.
Also the Big Agnes Rapide SL is a great choice for a pad. Little heavier/bulkier than the Nemo pads, but the dimples are better and I’ve never been cold on mine.
Good matteress and pillow, followed closely by a good bag/quilt is core to a good backpacking trip (or any camping trip for that matter). Poor sleep makes for misery.
The Zen bivvy bed link sends you to Nemo, pad link works
Good info. The only thing I often see is that the Klymit Static V insulated is ignored for the non insulated. The insulated version is R4.4 and weighs 24oz. Cost is just shy of $88. I have used the static v insulated for 3 nights in Glacier and 3 nights in Yellowstone and cannot complain.
That 4.4R value is a lie. When they astm rated their similar insulated pads, it got a 2R rating. They still haven't updated their rating for the main pad and you can see many people complaining about the pad being too cold.
Scummy company Imo
Hi Eric, you said you wouldn't recommend the static v, what do you think of the insulated static v
The insulated version is not much better than the uninsulated version. It markets itself as 4+ R value but it's been tested to be only about 2. For the $80+ it costs I'd go for other options.
Need to test the ampex sleep pads I have two now long wide around 60 bucks and rvalue 5.5 rated
Do you recommend them? I’m thinking of getting the ultra light. But de Amazon comments aren’t that great.
@LuisGomez-cs7su I like them o ly tested down to 40 degrees but kept me warm and comfy all night
Hey dude, have you heard something about the AMPEX Ultra-Light Inflatable Camp Pad Insulated? looks to good to be true. $59 for a R5.5 pad.
Bring a -30 C down puffy jacket and sleep on a tarp on the ground
You are The man! 😂
If the Walmart foam pad is so cheap, why not pair it with any of the other mattresses to bump up the consolidated R-Values & maybe prevent punctures? Only ads +$20 to the total price -
assuming added bulk & weight isn’t much of a problem of course , maybe option for designated type camping
adding a closed cell foam mattress IS a great way to add R value and protect your air mattress. This cheapo one from Walmart is more bulky than some other options but the price is right.
I have always wondered. If you stack pads. Does the r-value increase numerically? 2+2=4?
Yes. Thats correct.
@@jukkavv tyvm
I've tried it, and it's claimed too. But in reality what happens is, the sides are not getting stacked. So the cold air is still getting into the side of the cold pad that's placed on top and you still feel cold.
The only stacking that I've found works, is to place a closed foam cell on top on your air pad. This stays 2R more and it actually works. Feels kinda odd to lay on, not uncomfortable, just odd, but it's warm. If you try putting the closed foam on bottom and sleeping on the air pad, it's far colder, cus of those sides exposed to the cold air still. You get used to odd feeling of sleeping on the foam on top of the air easy enough, since it's warm.
tyvm makes sense
What do you think about new Therm-a-Rest Boost 650 ?
As my grandfather would have said- I wouldn’t pay that to see a piss ant eat a bale of hay. Still using my ancient Camp 7 down bag and foam mat. A Nemo or Thermarest is on the short list.
Nemo is infinitely more comfortable.
You either inherited or stole that Camp 7 bag, or you’re 60+ years old.
Where would the Aegismax Ultra Future sleeping bag and Hard Wind Quilt fit on this spectrum?
I think the Aegismax bag is in the same ballpark as the Kelty Cosmic 20. It's a nice warm and light bag, but it's a tiny bit cramped. Opt for the size long if you're about 6' tall.
Can you offer any comment on the zenbivvy £299 (not sure of $ cost) version???
I have the original 10f lightbed quilt from Zen and honestly it's one of my regrettable purchases. I could've gotten the same rating, lesser weight, customizable colors at the same price from EE. Junk is like 32 oz. Your quilt just shouldn't weigh more than your shelter out of principle. Imagine your blanket at home weighing more than your house, its bonkers
Review paria 0 down
i am missing at least one more bed system options. it is unfair to jump from standard sleeping bags directly to ZenBivy. if video was for example with RockFront bed system included it was much better not only due to being bed system but it is like budget version of ZenBivy which is still very good.
Man I need to upgrade my gear, still using a Amazon inflatable pad with a synthetic Teton bag
Stick with what works.
Mind you there’s always the possibility to buy premium but used gear to save a penny or two
Not a fan of Klymit as a company TBH. They are really deceptive about their insulated sleeping pad. They advertise it as a 4R, but it astm tests closer to a 2R and there are lots of complaints about it sleeping cold
VERY dishonest. I would NEVER support them. This kind of deception gets people in big trouble miles in the woods, counting on a rating to stay alive. No one should be promoting them, EVER.
✌️👶🚬 Better than those silver space blankets developed by NASA for certain. You'd think they'd have an ultralight 5 oz hay bale by now..... course I suppose weight shouldn't matter up there
There are even better pads out there. Wait until you discover thermorest.
You are better off spending money on puffy jacket and long drawers. Your bottom of the line is fine for 3 season camping. The extra few pounds is hardly noticeable with a decent pack. A jacket is 24 hour insulation. If you can't endure a little cold, stay home.
What if ...you sleep in a place where it is 25 degrees C at night and you still want to sleep comfy without flowing (sweating) of your mat !
Maybe just a silk sleeping bag liner. I use a hammock at those temps with no under quilt and the cooling effect keeps me pretty comfortable
Save $700 and get a Katabatic Quilt instead of the Zenbivy. Really comfy and probably far better quality. The nemo is not remotely worth it lol; trust me, I have one.
First!!
I don't know why Zenbivy still make it in a white color. Backpacking usually happens in conditons with either mud/dust or wet dirt. And still white, seriously???
Great content, just stop these mr beast thumbnail.
But focus groups and UA-cam instructional clearly demonstrate that the audience resonates with versus style overly cartoonish punchy visuals (I know it's so regimented and rigidly structured, stop following templates and originate something)
$1100 absolutely not! I don’t care what anyone says.
Even when the real and fake are placed side by side, it is hard to tell them apart. You have to do this kind of forensic level investigation, which only shows that the fake kislux is very impressive and the real thing is really not worth the price. In fact, I am very disappointed with Chanel's poor quality in recent years and their customer service is terrible. The fakes look good at the moment
$160 is budget? No way is that "budget". That is like the people saying fishnet shirts are the best. No way am I paying $100 for a shirt that is 90% holes. Because people don't think. They just spend money because someone said, "This is the best!". I came here because of the title however, I don't feel like $200 for sleeping on is budget.
I'm pretty fucking tired of these Zenbivy ads everywhere.