I can just imagine everyone in the NIKE Running offices gathering around a screen and watching this together on Monday morning to check their vision is making sense and for some positive reinforcement. 😄
As someone who likes Nike shoes, and generally roots for Nike when it comes to running shoes, I think this new organization is pretty nice. It’s easy to understand and I think could really help people find the right shoes for them. I heard the infinity will be in the Structure line, and I’d expect the invincible to become a Vomero, good news for all the runners on my high school XC team who swear by that shoe. Great video, as always!
The infinity becoming part of the Structure line makes sense. A "light stability" performance shoe makes sense there. The Invincible will be the Vomero Plus, which will be interesting as far as performance and the marketing story around those two shoes.
@@SagasuRunning As long as Nike keeps making the Free line for people, one runner I met for a summer in 2014 before he went back to Oklahoma University can only run in Nike Free models as he had learned to run in the Nike Free. His mom who was a Runner had read the book Born to Run in 2009 when He was first really getting into running so they did not let their son wear the then standard shoes and no good minimal models were out yet in 2009, just Nike Free a line had come out in late 2006 early 2007. He told me he was one of the few who for spikes would wear for both Cross Country and Track wear the Nike Waffle Cross Country spikes due to those having the most flex unlike most track spikes having too much rigidity then when needing no spike wear during some Cross Country where spikes are ban like in California he would wear from the Nike Free line the most minimal model of Nike Free currently made in 2014 even if that model was a training shoe. He literally turned down places that did not use a brand with a minimal enough shoe for his running needs when the NCAA schools came calling, so schools with Adidas or Under Armour as the other big school sports sponsors were out.
I think it's great that Nike is streamlining (kinda) its daily trainer/cushioned daily trainer lineup with three separate categories and then distinct tiers (Icon/Classic, Plus/Performance, Premium/Innovation). It reminds me of the tiers in flagship phones. I imagine the more expensive Premium is the one that'll allow Nike to tinker and experiment, with those innovations eventually trickling down to the Plus tier, maybe even the Icon tier. That graphic of the Vomero Premium reminds me of NB's More V5.😄 I couldn't help myself and pulled the trigger on the Peg 41, Bowerman colorway (didn't have a choice, but it felt fitting). Only a couple of runs so far so I can't quite decide whether they felt good because they're new (they wanted to run fast at the beginning of my workout!) or because they're that much better than my 39 workhorse. I did a sprint workout without issue, and didn't feel the need for more foam. I'll be rotating the 41 with the Rise and see how they feel after 30-50k.
The 41 gets better as it softens up to your foot. Just wait. The "Premium" tier exists to grab headlines and PR and some runners will benefit from them, but most will stick to the first two tiers.
What’s interesting about the proposed structure is it allows Nike to have their cake and eat it too from a brand building / prod dev perspective. One would think a Pegasus or Vomero allows for the accumulation of equity within those names / “brands” but at the cost of being constrained by the things that made it successful in the past. The sub-brand differentiation within each category actually allows for flexibility and experimentation that can allow for the brand equities to evolve. It’s a very interesting brand strategy move as we see it take shape over time…
That is the key. The space for Nike to explore the franchise and innovate in that specific space without creating new models. That is the big deal here. Finally Nike can really push things in their training shoes.
Just hope they can give a better idea when the vomero plus and premium will be released after the first of the year. I am very interested in the Vomero 18 as well.
It really makes me excited for the future, especially sense I am a Nike fan, and really enjoy their products. Them making room for innovation in a lot of different areas of their lineup, really is promising for the future 😄🙏🏁
Most importantly it FINALLY gives Nike some room to explore and innovate in the "franchises". Something they haven't had for sometime. Creating new models, here and there, isn't the best play often.
Thanks as always for these detailed breakdowns! I ran in the pegasus for many years from middle school through college, fell in love with the invincible 1-2, but felt disappointed by the invincible 3. I fully agree with your sentiment that the Nike lineup in recent years has been muddled at best; but I don’t personally feel this 9-shoe matrix helps except to organize shoes on a wall. I find the animations overwrought and really only made sense once you narrated through them. I watched the BITR TRE interview with the Nike rep and even they struggled to articulate how many shoes will NOT be in this matrix. So all the racing shoes are lumped together somewhere else? Will they follow a similar 3-shoe hierarchy? Why does nike need 12+ shoes just in the road running category? The Adizero line seems to have this pegged with a very clear linear trajectory through each shoe to the next, I wish Nike would take notes from them. As a fairly well informed shoe consumer I don’t find this strategy helpful.
I'll break down the race shoes in another video... That one is much more clear (but nothing is announced officially). Stay tuned. I will agree that Adizero is a clean range right now...but Adizero is performance focused and geared towards more advanced runners, so it can be leaner. I spent a big part of 2024, on this channel, trying to explain where the Supernova Rise (series) falls in the Adidas range... which is not clear to most runners. Nike is trying to cover ALL runners with their range.
Good to see the Vomero getting more love instead the Invincible line. Should have been like a Gel-Nimbus working tougher with the Nova Blast line. One is a classic and has to always be the max cushioning shoes from the brand while the Nova Blast can also be a high cushioning shoes but showing different attributes. So this way they can don't compete with each other like have been happening in the Nike's Vomero becoming a subclass high cushioning shoes when compared to the Invincible. I'm glad that the Vomero that is "absorbing " the Invincible and not the other way around.
The IR2 had the best upper. I put A LOT of KMs into that one. Though I liked the simplicity of the IR1 the most. The IR3 upper didn't work for running for me, but was a great casual shoe.
I can see the Invincible getting phased out, with the changes to the Vomero. Won't be much to distinguish between the Vomero Plus and the Invincible...but who knows. People are strange beasts and might not be able to wrap their heads around this change, so Nike decides to keep the Invincible around. The BIG problem this might cause for Nike is balancing production with demand. They might think they have to produce X numbers of Pegs and X - 75% Peg Plus...but the market flips that number around (random example) and suddenly Nike has a glut of one shoe and a negative PR shortage of the one people really want. Which then forces customers to Adidas/ASICS/etc for their equivalent offering. The best shoe is the one you can actually get!
The ride differences will be there. ZoomX/ReactX vs ZoomX only will be noticeable. The Vomero Plus/Invincible 4 will be very dynamic (and a bit all over the place like it has been in the past). While the V18 will have the softness of ZoomX underfoot and all the leg savings but the dense under foot feel of ReactX (which I like a lot). Nike could run into a Superblast dilemma with the Vomero Plus… for sure. It will be interesting to watch.
@@SagasuRunning It's funny you mention the Superblast, I haven't worn them since 2 weeks prior to Chicago. That vehicle stays in the garage till probably Feb when I'm doing runs where it's actually useful. Hoping I will be able to use them for key runs for both Spring and Fall marathons before they get retired or shifted to lower quality/distance runs.
So what now for the Zoom Fly? The Zoom Fly 6 is a total revelation compared to past models, and is soooo much more dynamic - it's now my favourite shoe in the line-up, and what the shoe should have always been. Does the new line-up mean there won't be another generation?
The ZoomFly is a “fly” shoe, which means it technically sort of the racing lineup. Totally different approach. I’ll talk about it in an upcoming video. Stay tuned.
@SagasuRunning awesome, looking forward to this! That being said, this whole line-up consolidation was to make things simpler - I'm getting more confused...
excited, while I'm not a fan of the brand, it's the only shoe brand that works for me which is surprising since I have a wide foot and they're known to make narrow running shoes. But I won't be getting anything over 300grams from any brand.
By always keeping a drop around 8/10 they lose the opportunity to make a training shoe for long runs with lots of foam in the forefoot area. Look at the success Brooks had with Glycerin max, I don't understand why....
Not everyone wants or benefits from a lower drops. Nike has their POV on drops. Also for trainers, the 40mm stack height thing doesn't matter, so their is no limit to the stacks possible. Nothing to do with stack heights. Plus now with the super compressive foams stack height is just a reference, not a reality, like in the firm EVA foam days.
I’ll always be biased in favor of a Nike shoe but I can’t help but think they should have chosen different names for their new shoe structure - Icon, Plus and Premium are unimaginative, and I would argue more confusing. They feel like the Good-Better-Best hierarchy you might find when shopping for a paint brush and I don’t believe running shoes in 2024 function the same way - it’s easy to get excited for the Turbo, The StreakFly, the AlphaFly, the Invincible, but the “Plus”? (I have 2 of this shoe, and do find it exciting… why not just keep Turbo, which is more descriptive of it’s role and trade-offs either way?) We also eventually learn what to expect from the "X" or "Y". More importantly, I can’t help but think it’s confusing. The Pegasus, Vomero, and Structure make sense, but I don’t think Plus and Premium are at all good naming. Plus and Premium suggest a shoe that does the same thing, but better - as in all kinds of products we already know from other industries - which I don’t think maps well onto running shoes. The Turbo is a better description, because it describes the “trade-offs” being made (or the Streakfly, or the Zoom Fly, etc.). It’s lighter, faster, maybe a bit less stable, and more expensive. But plus to me makes me think it’s main role is to be a more expensive “better” version, which isn’t really the case I think. The Pegasus plus is arguably a better shoe than the Pegasus, or I definitely think so, but it’s also a different shoe - so the Pegasus still has a place. With the new naming, what’s the implied function of the “icon” model, for someone who can afford the “plus” or “premium”? I don’t disagree with the actual shoes, as you describe them - that makes sense, and I can’t wait for the “experimental” high-tech versions of beloved icons, I just don’t think this is the naming. For instance: What makes a Vomero a plus, or a premium? And assume I have the extra USD, why not just always buy a “plus” or “premium”?
To me this is the kind of pricing model we see on lots of low-interest products - we give three price points, and since I don’t want the “bad one”, and I’m not a professional I don’t need the “professional” one, most will opt for the “better/plus” version, in lieu of more information
I agree with you conceptually...but in reality I don't think it's THAT bad. Nike already does this in their soccer cleats (Football boots) with four tiers actually (Elite, Pro, Academy, Club) and it seems to work well for them there. The real story telling with the tiers will be what they do...not what they are called.
Looks like 2025 is going to have some great shoes from Nike for training. I wonder what’s happening with their race shoe lineup. Thanks for the video. Well done!
thanks for the video .as a customer i love alphafly series and in my opinion pegasus line up is not as succesful as nike race series .also i have a question to you . if you had to pick one pair of shoes from nike and if you had to pick one pair of shoes from adidas . what would they be ? mines are alphafly 3 and boston 12
Depends on the use case, training and racing are very different. The Pegasus/Vapofly combo is hard to beat. However, in 2025 the Evo SL/AP4 combo looks great.
Great idea to clarify the lines for non-shoe-nerds, but I fear there will still be a ton of cheap rubbish "running" shoes to fill the outlets that will then again confuse people and give them a bad running experience.
I can just imagine everyone in the NIKE Running offices gathering around a screen and watching this together on Monday morning to check their vision is making sense and for some positive reinforcement. 😄
It's the small wins, right? Take what you can get and build on it! 💪🏻
As someone who likes Nike shoes, and generally roots for Nike when it comes to running shoes, I think this new organization is pretty nice. It’s easy to understand and I think could really help people find the right shoes for them. I heard the infinity will be in the Structure line, and I’d expect the invincible to become a Vomero, good news for all the runners on my high school XC team who swear by that shoe. Great video, as always!
The infinity becoming part of the Structure line makes sense. A "light stability" performance shoe makes sense there. The Invincible will be the Vomero Plus, which will be interesting as far as performance and the marketing story around those two shoes.
@@SagasuRunning As long as Nike keeps making the Free line for people, one runner I met for a summer in 2014 before he went back to Oklahoma University can only run in Nike Free models as he had learned to run in the Nike Free. His mom who was a Runner had read the book Born to Run in 2009 when He was first really getting into running so they did not let their son wear the then standard shoes and no good minimal models were out yet in 2009, just Nike Free a line had come out in late 2006 early 2007. He told me he was one of the few who for spikes would wear for both Cross Country and Track wear the Nike Waffle Cross Country spikes due to those having the most flex unlike most track spikes having too much rigidity then when needing no spike wear during some Cross Country where spikes are ban like in California he would wear from the Nike Free line the most minimal model of Nike Free currently made in 2014 even if that model was a training shoe. He literally turned down places that did not use a brand with a minimal enough shoe for his running needs when the NCAA schools came calling, so schools with Adidas or Under Armour as the other big school sports sponsors were out.
When I saw Nike present it on their newsroom. The first thing I thought was you were absolutely right. respect for that 👍💪🙂
It’s good to get the confirmation though. 👍🏻
@SagasuRunning 👍
I think it's great that Nike is streamlining (kinda) its daily trainer/cushioned daily trainer lineup with three separate categories and then distinct tiers (Icon/Classic, Plus/Performance, Premium/Innovation). It reminds me of the tiers in flagship phones. I imagine the more expensive Premium is the one that'll allow Nike to tinker and experiment, with those innovations eventually trickling down to the Plus tier, maybe even the Icon tier. That graphic of the Vomero Premium reminds me of NB's More V5.😄 I couldn't help myself and pulled the trigger on the Peg 41, Bowerman colorway (didn't have a choice, but it felt fitting). Only a couple of runs so far so I can't quite decide whether they felt good because they're new (they wanted to run fast at the beginning of my workout!) or because they're that much better than my 39 workhorse. I did a sprint workout without issue, and didn't feel the need for more foam. I'll be rotating the 41 with the Rise and see how they feel after 30-50k.
The 41 gets better as it softens up to your foot. Just wait.
The "Premium" tier exists to grab headlines and PR and some runners will benefit from them, but most will stick to the first two tiers.
I’ve been waiting for this. Very excited to try vomero and Pegasus options.
Wait until you see the Vomero Premium... That one may give your Mizunos a run for the money...
What’s interesting about the proposed structure is it allows Nike to have their cake and eat it too from a brand building / prod dev perspective. One would think a Pegasus or Vomero allows for the accumulation of equity within those names / “brands” but at the cost of being constrained by the things that made it successful in the past. The sub-brand differentiation within each category actually allows for flexibility and experimentation that can allow for the brand equities to evolve. It’s a very interesting brand strategy move as we see it take shape over time…
That is the key. The space for Nike to explore the franchise and innovate in that specific space without creating new models. That is the big deal here. Finally Nike can really push things in their training shoes.
Just hope they can give a better idea when the vomero plus and premium will be released after the first of the year. I am very interested in the Vomero 18 as well.
It really makes me excited for the future, especially sense I am a Nike fan, and really enjoy their products. Them making room for innovation in a lot of different areas of their lineup, really is promising for the future 😄🙏🏁
Most importantly it FINALLY gives Nike some room to explore and innovate in the "franchises". Something they haven't had for sometime. Creating new models, here and there, isn't the best play often.
Is it fairly certain that the Vomero Plus will be the new Invincible?
💯
Thanks as always for these detailed breakdowns! I ran in the pegasus for many years from middle school through college, fell in love with the invincible 1-2, but felt disappointed by the invincible 3. I fully agree with your sentiment that the Nike lineup in recent years has been muddled at best; but I don’t personally feel this 9-shoe matrix helps except to organize shoes on a wall. I find the animations overwrought and really only made sense once you narrated through them. I watched the BITR TRE interview with the Nike rep and even they struggled to articulate how many shoes will NOT be in this matrix. So all the racing shoes are lumped together somewhere else? Will they follow a similar 3-shoe hierarchy? Why does nike need 12+ shoes just in the road running category? The Adizero line seems to have this pegged with a very clear linear trajectory through each shoe to the next, I wish Nike would take notes from them. As a fairly well informed shoe consumer I don’t find this strategy helpful.
I'll break down the race shoes in another video... That one is much more clear (but nothing is announced officially). Stay tuned.
I will agree that Adizero is a clean range right now...but Adizero is performance focused and geared towards more advanced runners, so it can be leaner. I spent a big part of 2024, on this channel, trying to explain where the Supernova Rise (series) falls in the Adidas range... which is not clear to most runners.
Nike is trying to cover ALL runners with their range.
I appreciate this breakdown. I wonder if this can be applied to other confusing brands such as Brooks with all their "max" shoes.
Brooks kind of does this with base (numbered model), Max (cushion), GTS (stability)... just not as literal and the qualifiers go cross franchise.
@SagasuRunning Right. It's their max shoes that are confusing. Ghost Max, Glycerin Max, Hyperion Max.
@MyFatAdaptedLife Ya, “max” is more of a feel thing for Brooks… big and bouncy across lines. Though GTS works the same.
I have tried many various brands of shoes but Nike shoes just fit my foot shape and stride so well.
Agree...it's a primary reason I always come back to Nike. Fit. It just works for my foot and stride as well.
Good to see the Vomero getting more love instead the Invincible line.
Should have been like a Gel-Nimbus working tougher with the Nova Blast line. One is a classic and has to always be the max cushioning shoes from the brand while the Nova Blast can also be a high cushioning shoes but showing different attributes. So this way they can don't compete with each other like have been happening in the Nike's Vomero becoming a subclass high cushioning shoes when compared to the Invincible.
I'm glad that the Vomero that is "absorbing " the Invincible and not the other way around.
Ya, it makes sense for people familiar with Nike...but I bet many of those newer runners will be very confused.
I really love the Nike Infinity react 2. I hope Nike develops a shoe similar to that.
The IR2 had the best upper. I put A LOT of KMs into that one. Though I liked the simplicity of the IR1 the most. The IR3 upper didn't work for running for me, but was a great casual shoe.
I agree. Do you think Nike will make a similar shoe to that with the Structure Plus?
If any show in the structure like is prime for something like an older Infinity… it’s the Plus. It would follow the Peg 41/Plus path as well.
I really hope so
I can see the Invincible getting phased out, with the changes to the Vomero. Won't be much to distinguish between the Vomero Plus and the Invincible...but who knows. People are strange beasts and might not be able to wrap their heads around this change, so Nike decides to keep the Invincible around. The BIG problem this might cause for Nike is balancing production with demand. They might think they have to produce X numbers of Pegs and X - 75% Peg Plus...but the market flips that number around (random example) and suddenly Nike has a glut of one shoe and a negative PR shortage of the one people really want. Which then forces customers to Adidas/ASICS/etc for their equivalent offering. The best shoe is the one you can actually get!
The ride differences will be there. ZoomX/ReactX vs ZoomX only will be noticeable. The Vomero Plus/Invincible 4 will be very dynamic (and a bit all over the place like it has been in the past). While the V18 will have the softness of ZoomX underfoot and all the leg savings but the dense under foot feel of ReactX (which I like a lot).
Nike could run into a Superblast dilemma with the Vomero Plus… for sure. It will be interesting to watch.
@@SagasuRunning It's funny you mention the Superblast, I haven't worn them since 2 weeks prior to Chicago. That vehicle stays in the garage till probably Feb when I'm doing runs where it's actually useful. Hoping I will be able to use them for key runs for both Spring and Fall marathons before they get retired or shifted to lower quality/distance runs.
So what now for the Zoom Fly? The Zoom Fly 6 is a total revelation compared to past models, and is soooo much more dynamic - it's now my favourite shoe in the line-up, and what the shoe should have always been. Does the new line-up mean there won't be another generation?
The ZoomFly is a “fly” shoe, which means it technically sort of the racing lineup. Totally different approach. I’ll talk about it in an upcoming video. Stay tuned.
@SagasuRunning awesome, looking forward to this!
That being said, this whole line-up consolidation was to make things simpler - I'm getting more confused...
Ha. Look at it as training & racing lines. Once the racing line fleshes out more it should be more clear.
excited, while I'm not a fan of the brand, it's the only shoe brand that works for me which is surprising since I have a wide foot and they're known to make narrow running shoes. But I won't be getting anything over 300grams from any brand.
That is odd. Fit is one of the big reasons o come back to Nike always. They just work for my foot shape.
I’m assuming with the premium versions that Nike will have 3 training shoes over $200. Nasty work😂
Seems that way. Also seems like a fair for the tier.
By always keeping a drop around 8/10 they lose the opportunity to make a training shoe for long runs with lots of foam in the forefoot area. Look at the success Brooks had with Glycerin max, I don't understand why....
Not everyone wants or benefits from a lower drops. Nike has their POV on drops. Also for trainers, the 40mm stack height thing doesn't matter, so their is no limit to the stacks possible. Nothing to do with stack heights.
Plus now with the super compressive foams stack height is just a reference, not a reality, like in the firm EVA foam days.
I’ll always be biased in favor of a Nike shoe but I can’t help but think they should have chosen different names for their new shoe structure - Icon, Plus and Premium are unimaginative, and I would argue more confusing. They feel like the Good-Better-Best hierarchy you might find when shopping for a paint brush and I don’t believe running shoes in 2024 function the same way - it’s easy to get excited for the Turbo, The StreakFly, the AlphaFly, the Invincible, but the “Plus”? (I have 2 of this shoe, and do find it exciting… why not just keep Turbo, which is more descriptive of it’s role and trade-offs either way?) We also eventually learn what to expect from the "X" or "Y".
More importantly, I can’t help but think it’s confusing. The Pegasus, Vomero, and Structure make sense, but I don’t think Plus and Premium are at all good naming. Plus and Premium suggest a shoe that does the same thing, but better - as in all kinds of products we already know from other industries - which I don’t think maps well onto running shoes. The Turbo is a better description, because it describes the “trade-offs” being made (or the Streakfly, or the Zoom Fly, etc.). It’s lighter, faster, maybe a bit less stable, and more expensive. But plus to me makes me think it’s main role is to be a more expensive “better” version, which isn’t really the case I think. The Pegasus plus is arguably a better shoe than the Pegasus, or I definitely think so, but it’s also a different shoe - so the Pegasus still has a place.
With the new naming, what’s the implied function of the “icon” model, for someone who can afford the “plus” or “premium”?
I don’t disagree with the actual shoes, as you describe them - that makes sense, and I can’t wait for the “experimental” high-tech versions of beloved icons, I just don’t think this is the naming.
For instance: What makes a Vomero a plus, or a premium? And assume I have the extra USD, why not just always buy a “plus” or “premium”?
To me this is the kind of pricing model we see on lots of low-interest products - we give three price points, and since I don’t want the “bad one”, and I’m not a professional I don’t need the “professional” one, most will opt for the “better/plus” version, in lieu of more information
I agree with you conceptually...but in reality I don't think it's THAT bad. Nike already does this in their soccer cleats (Football boots) with four tiers actually (Elite, Pro, Academy, Club) and it seems to work well for them there. The real story telling with the tiers will be what they do...not what they are called.
Looks like 2025 is going to have some great shoes from Nike for training. I wonder what’s happening with their race shoe lineup. Thanks for the video. Well done!
The race shoe topic is going to be ongoing in 2025. Working on a video about it for soon’ish… Nike and beyond.
thanks for the video .as a customer i love alphafly series and in my opinion pegasus line up is not as succesful as nike race series .also i have a question to you . if you had to pick one pair of shoes from nike and if you had to pick one pair of shoes from adidas . what would they be ? mines are alphafly 3 and boston 12
Depends on the use case, training and racing are very different. The Pegasus/Vapofly combo is hard to beat. However, in 2025 the Evo SL/AP4 combo looks great.
I've never run in a nike. But yheir new shoes do looking exciting. Too bad I have enough Boston 12 Wides to last me all of 2025
The B13 doesn't look much changed, just a single foam now... that one should be tempting for you.
Smart - its so you don’t have to leave the brand for a full shoe rotation
That is the intent. Either within a tier or mixing what you need across. All bases covered either way.
Great idea to clarify the lines for non-shoe-nerds, but I fear there will still be a ton of cheap rubbish "running" shoes to fill the outlets that will then again confuse people and give them a bad running experience.
Ya...all of those budget models are still confusing. I'd love to see those cleaned up to 2-3 models. It would help quite a bit.
Naaah my little Brain find this also complicated 😂
Haha. 🧠 🔥