Awesome video. My thoughts: -It’d be interesting to see how the times would compare, if each test run had been repeated a few times. Hard to know what the baseline is with only a single run. -Hardtails can help develop/refine skills in ways that may not be reflected in race times too. Being a slightly smoother rider, as an example, might help you avoid punctures during a race, even if it doesn’t dramatically impact your race time. -Who says being a “better” rider means your times will be faster, or why that matters? :) It would be great to hear more detail about your subjective experience after making this video. On future rides on the full sus, do you notice any differences in your riding? Great job Anna, as always…..and props for racing a hardtail!
Also hard tails are about fun! So tired of everything being about times in the bike world. Loads of people run for fun, but everybody seems to think all biking is about speed. Also no way I’d never ride a race like she did on 27.5
I feel like there’s so much difference in the 2 bikes it comes down to practice. Totally different ride ability.. my first bike was 5 rides on my full suspension were kinda scary. It was my first full suspension bike. But 3 months later. I regretted getting back on the hard tail. Full was in the shop about a week waiting on parts. After getting reacquainted with my haardtail I knew it’s just what you get used to. I love them both in different ways for different reasons. Feels like polygamy a bit I guess. ❤❤❤😂😂😂😂
it's so simple, what do you use the bike for mostly, offroad trails beginner or advanced doesnt matter buy a fully, if you ride cross country or more on the normal road buy a hardtail, if you are rich buy both and use em for what they are made for. In general it seems like a hardtail is the better option if you can only afford one bike. She saz she's having fun on the hardtail but she's looks terrified as fuck and bet she aint having fun at all.
On the splitting of the run in to two halves, I think it would've been interesting to know these times for the hard tail, too. It's likely that you went faster in both halves as the month progressed on the hard tail but, I think more so on the first half. As you gradually altered your style to accommodate the way the hard tail rides you likely restricted your speed in the second half yet, still went faster there also. You then transfered this new style over to the full suspension which slowed you in the rough, as you pointed out. All very interesting. You gave up your full suspension for four weeks for this test. Quite the sacrifice - I bet you really missed the comfort and capability.
@@AnnaOnTheBike a good comparison would be say a Santa Cruz Blur against a Santa Cruz Highball or a Yeti A.R.C against a Yeti SB115, Both these examples are aimed at XC/trail and all should have the same set up component wise. That way you could make a much more accurate comparison. I actually went back to an XC hardtail from a full suspension XC rig (both the same brand, size, set up ,etc) and got better race results over similar XC race circuits over two race seasons. I felt much more in control with the hardtail and less fatigued but would probably put that down to the hardtail being lighter than the full suspension bike. You do need to set the same fork (Fox 34 Stepcast) up differently on a hardtail to a full suspension rig though. Servicing and maintenance costs were cheaper with a the hardtail.
Thanks for the video Anna! You're a braver rider than most taking on that race on a hardtail. I find riding an aggressive hardtail is great fun but definitely slower and less controlled than riding on my Full Suspension bike. They both have their merits and compromises.
From the results it looks like training on a HT makes a difference only on a HT. Maybe the riding style and technique required by the two kind of bikes is more diverse and different than we think. Nice interesting video 😊
As someone who rides a full suspension, but also loves riding my aggressive hardtail all the time too, I can definitely say it makes you a better rider. Plus variety is the spice of life. Love this video as a hardtail enthusiast.
I personally say yes, especially on rougher and tech trails, if anything it at least increases your tolerance and endurance for really rough sections of trail
I think that the improvements will be more evident in the medium/long terms. The point is that the HT is more difficult to ride, so you have to be more focused (and probably more skilled) to do the same things that you make in a full. However this is not necessarily a good thing, is just a fact: HT are more hard to ride than full bikes. It depends on a lot of others things too, like what you said, the confindence. In my case a think that helped, after a lot of years riding hardtails a finded really really easy going con full bike.
I agree with some of the other comments on doing a few different runs to see a comparison, also I think it’d be cool if a few of the gmbn crew did this all together so we can see how weight, height, and riding styles also affect this, because I’m an avid believer in the hardtail and have yet to go full sus one because I haven’t been able to afford it and because I’ve also been driven that a hardtail makes you better. Love your content I watch every day 👍 always finding videos I haven’t seen yet
This a good video all around. I like the more in depth analysis in the end finding out where the true advantage might be other than significantly better ride comfort on full suspension. Its cool you joined a race with it as well!
I feel like it improves one as a rider. I guess it's a matter of getting confident full send with the full squish again. With the hands i can recommend Spank vibrocore bars. For me it was an absolute game changer! Before i atleast felt it till i was home 30mins after i got out of the woods and a 2hour ride. With those bars. Absolutely no hand pain what so ever.
@@edwhite6574 In my case GD1 HT party likes em and i had GA on the old bike so i thought might as well try them. They are good yet when riding om the street the GA were better for without gloves
Love this video! I think hard tails will always lose out when pointed downhill. I ride a chromoly frame Hardtail (Norco Torrent S1) and a carbon frame full suspension (Norco Sight) on Vancouver’s North Shore, both with rockshox Lyric Ultimate forks. Rumour has it that the Torrent was designed to test the geometry for the Sight, so they are pretty similar setups. I keep falling in love with the hard tail because it makes me focus 100% on the trail and gives me more of a precise feel in the janky climbing trails and other spots where balance is key. Then I fall in love with the Sight because it is some much more comfortable to ride and so fast on the downhill sections, even if handling can feel a bit vague. Did you find that difference between your bikes? I’m happy with the full sus bike and ride it more often, but I absolutely love my hardtail and will never give it up. Could not tell you why I feel so different about the two bikes, but one is like a family member while the other is the like a reasonably entertaining co-worker. Go figure!
Well done Anna for taking on a challenge like this. It's been a very long time since I had a hardtail (a Giant Cadex CFM 3) I'm sure at the time it was preparing me for future bikes. I really don't think I could go back now.
My opinion would be that its all down to intelligent line choice and learning what is a good line is. Not suprised at all that an experienced rider like Anna doesn't benifit from that test. A new rider that rode, lets say a month on a full susp then a month on a hardtail and then went back to full susp would like benefit greatly.
Good parallel. Good perspective and comparation. - Question: Perhaps you Anna and your teammate Doddy could make a video about your decisions (your work, preperations, considerations) in relation to bike geometry and your choices concerning your riding-styles. Kind regards from Denmark
What a fantastic video, you need to more of there. I ride my hardtail like I ride my dual sus, to the limits but would never give up my hardtail, it has helped me progress drastically. Like I say, I hope you do more of these vids, they’re fantastic
Great video especially as a novice progressing with a hardtail (a Scott Scale 29er). The showdown at the end is inspiring to hear as you say you have more confidence with the full sus, and that's great news as I move to one in 12months time. Great video - and Ard Rock looked epic!!!
You should do a recap after getting back on the full sus for a month Hardtail skills make you more conscious of your lines for shure... An it takes time to develop the kind ofquick deliberate line choosing for smoothing out the trail. Going back to the full sus you will probably end up putting a thousand tiny line changes, where you could have relied on suspension. Also it takes time to get back into the handling and timing you need for each bike. ... For me the big suprise really came this year in the alps on really steep and rough trails, where i could just let my full sus get up to speed and then just dance in-between lines on the go even on new to me trails. ... You just read the trail on a different scope as the suspension makes other lines viable at speed... And speed puts the energy into the system to flick around a bulkyer bike, as you would already need to with the hardtail on less severe terrain. The trail you where on kind of didn't really necessitate linechoice. (i still have a lot of trails where my best strava times are on the 140mm-hardtail, just because of rolling speed and pumping, and because there is little to be gained from full sus)
Hello, there! Greeting from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Well, I simply love HT's and I cannot explain why. Anyway, I've got a new bike about 45 days ago, switching from a HT XC MTB to a Full suspension Trail. It is a heck of a change. This New bike is my first Full Susp. Actually, is also the very first time I even tried a full susp. So, I don't know how the HT helped my development as a biker but I do fell more confident in the trails. Also, in my HT, frequently I was more concerned in saving my arse from falls instead of simply having fun. The Full Susp is all about fun. I am not able to ride in the top positions in my category when competing, but this is not because Full Susp/HT discussion....it's because the type of the MTB but I am in peace with that. Well, sorry about my noob points but I really enjoy your channel. Final point: I do miss my old HT XC MTB. On any given day, I will get me a third bike: XC Full Susp MTB just for competition since we have several XCO and XCM here in Brazil.
I appreciate the effort put into this, very good work! As a long time rider who never owned a FS (I spend much more time climbing than descending where I ride), I have noticed that the riders who make the switch continue use the same technique on the HT which is totally understandable. In my view, you have to move your weight much more on the HT, and when it gets steep and gnarly the rider's bottom should be as rearwards and low as possible. The front should be loaded to the minimum and the wrists an elbows as loose as possible without losing control. Also tyre pressure should be set as low as safely possible, and tyres with thinner supple sidewalls tend to absorb the bumps much better (a good idea is to go with an even thinner carcass on the front, which is less prone to sidewall damage). Having the saddle a bit higher than the maximum insert helps me control the bike better with my thighs.
I think some of the biggest improvement to my handling skills came from riding my CX bike regularly on single track. The hard tail still lets you get away with a multitude of sins given the wide tyres and front fork, where there are no get out of jail free cards with narrower tyres and a fully rigid bike.
I’ve only ever owned a hardtail currently a nukeproof scout and I’m almost nervous to go onto a full sus because I’m really comfy and used to it, I know exactly how it’s going to react and I almost think I’d be slower on a full sus 😅
I own both and honestly it really depends what you normally ride. If you enjoy talking your time through tech trails and don't do much jumps, HT is really enjoyable. FS on the other hand is super forgiving, so if you enjoy speed (especially over rough terrain) and jumps, FS is much more enjoyable. Personally the trails and rides i do are much more fun on a HT (FS honestly takes the fun out of it by mellowing it all out) so I'm going back to HT for the foreseeable future. Also I'm too lazy to service the rear of a FS...
I prefer my hardtail to my expensive full suspension. Learn to do most jobs and you can make improvements as you go, maybe hire a mtb or try a test day for the exotic stuff.
Try doing xc on a full sus 😂 the beauty of hard tails is that they make you a better rider, and if you’re a good rider you can do anything on them well. Full sus are one trick ponies and the majority of people who ride them most of the time don’t ride them on trials where you really need them, unless you’re a crap rider
Possibly my FS riding improves my short travel HT riding by building up my body English and commitment which pays dividends on the lighter, livelier and more fun HT. But on brutal rough trails you start suffering fast on the HT! The issue with the FS is not just the weight and slow handling but the unpredictability of the suspension and geometry which I find upsets my front back balance and cornering precision. I’ve never been able to get the bloody thing set up right! Great fun video BTW Thanks
Great Video and content. I’ve been riding a SS hard tail for about a year. Last weekend I rode a 15 mile loop with an average speed of 8.9. Lots of climbing and hilly rocky terrain. I rode the same loop on my Full Sus with gears and was actually slower 8.7….I attack more out of the saddle and line choice is important on my Single Speed HT. You don’t wear gloves!?! Your hardcore!
As I only have ridden a hardtail. For me in my neighborhood good enough, it would be more interesting to see what I would do on a full suspension. Going back and forth on different bikes probably doesn't help much. Great video!
I went from 180mm full sus, to smaller full sus, to 29er long fork hardtail, to a custom 130mm 27.5 hardtail, which I've now single speeded and it's my only bike. Simpler bikes make more happiness and lower speeds IMO.
I've got a 27.5 xl hardtail and i love it! Also, came from. 29er full-sus. I really like the simplicity and i think hardtails are way more predictable. You dont need to think about suspension rebound etc in the rear. What you see is what you get
To really get an accurate result, you would need to give yourself some time to apply the skills learned on the hardtail to the full-suspension. For example, to ride a hardtail fast, you need to pick smoother lines and jump over roots and rocks to maintain momentum. When getting back on the full-suspension, you are going to tend to ride the same way you rode the hardtail. You are going to pick smoother and slower lines. You need to readjust to the increased capabilities of the suspension. Picking straighter lines and rougher landings is where time can be saved with a full-suspension.
Nice vid. I think riding a hardtail made you faster on the flows. I'd assume it's because while riding a hardtail you've been looking for fun, and you found more fun on the flows. So you either a) have been ridng more flowy trails, or b) have put more focus into the flowy sections on your rides/workouts
I'm a Florida rider who barely knows the meaning of downhill, but I recently went to Pisgah and met a guy on the climb who rides downhill regularly that grew up in the area and was staying in New York. We rode Upper, Middle, and Lower Black. He was on a carbon full sus and I was on a 2019 Ragley Marley with an MRP Ribbon air fork that I can't get tuned properly for some reason. I was, more or less, able to keep up with him on my first time riding downhill ever. I wasn't able to follow a lot of his lines, and he was definitely just a faster rider so he stopped and waited for me at a few points, but I was with him most of the way down.
Very interesting experiment and cool video! congrats! Rough stuff is for a full sus. You can do it on a HT no problem but the ideal way is a full sus. Cornering and flow is best on HT. Both bikes can do everything and is up to you and what you can afford what you get. For me, is definitely a hardtail.
Coming from a HT rider myself, I agree with the fork setup observation, I like the initial firmness and suppleness overall, as you tend to ride the full stroke of the forks. But overall you could improve further by riding clipped rather than flats for HT. You should have a better climb ability and pedaling any trails that undulate for HT advantage. You should be able to pick a better line generally than just smashing it, as at the end of the day less tired. Depending on the trail, jumps are the main difference.
On flowy single track is always faster on a HT. And on climbs nothing beats a HT. Most riders don’t need 150mm travel rear suspension bikes. Keep in mind a HT is a cross country bike with CC geometry so riding it like AM is quite dumb.
I've kinda had this experiment over the last few years with a fat bike. I've actually learned to wheelie and whip with the fatbike. The lethargic, gyroscopic effect of the rear wheels, aided in me not overwhipping, and the stability of a nice wide wheel while trying to wheelie. I've also used it in tech gnar - the floating feeling of the rear wheel takes some getting used to, and it makes the full sus much sweeter going back to it. Strangely, depending on the track, the massive grip of the fattie on off camber roots and small bumps made it pretty capable compared to full sus (easier to commit). But for bigger rocks, compressions, jumps, blown out tracks or faster tracks the fattie got overwhelmed. In a lot of cases the rolling speed is just much slower on the fattie so it's hard to compete there. It's been a fun experiment.
From my strava times at my local I'm faster on my full sus overall, mostly because the 29" wheels and suspension gives me more confidence to push the bike harder thus making me faster. Love my hardtail but I only really use it in winter on milder trails or on local bike rides.
I think that perhaps alternating between the bikes over the month may have yielded different results. It would mean you would have maintained confidence on the full sus while increasing confidence on the hardtail. I find I need a few rides to get used to a bike and this may have been that. Loved the video!
one thing i allways HEAR when people riding a hardtail after long time on full sus: They are laughing so much more! Yes they can be scary but sometimes it gives you the fun back if you have to work more to ride those trails. I love hardtails!
I suppose it depends on your local tracks too as to what people purchase? If faster/flowy hardtail would be great. If more technical and rough, then full sus.
Re-familiarise with the full sus for a week or two and then do the timed run again. Some left over hardtail reticence to hit the rougher stuff could well have hindered.
Unless you did a couple of runs with the full sus after the 30 days it's not really possible to get a good reading. Your first run is just to get your body used to riding full sus again, so it would probably take a few runs before you could incorporate any new skills acquired from the HT.
As a committed hardtail rider I can tell you one place I win hands-down over my full-sus & ebike buddies. Locked Gates & Styles. I just don’t see the problem 😂
I think a few more runs on the soft tail so you could get used to trusting it again would help. You were slower on the chattery stuff you'd instinctually take slower on a hardtail.
I love my hard tail, but it’s a 29r and you rode a 650B. That may have squirreled your results a bit. I used to have a full sus Cannondale that was great but had seen many seasons. After watching Blake take on Megavelanch on a hard tail I used the full sus as a trade in. I got a great Andante hard tail with h disc, dropper post, and excellent one by Mech. Love it.
I ride a hardtail and i would'nt use it for downhill, i find it most effective in trails and i also like it in urban areas where the roads are bad and to jump over the curbs.
I think this video also shows that the modern hardtails are more capable than they have ever been! A hardtail will never be as comfortable, or give the same amount of traction as a full-suspension bike, but I believe the gap in performance between a hardtail and a full-suspension bike has shrunk. I recently decided to buy a modern hardtail, because honestly, I'm not going to ride extremely technical trails. It does not bother me to hike-a-bike for 50-100 feet. If I can ride 95% of a trail, that's good enough for me.
Great video! Your videos are so inspiring because seem to be about the same level as my mates and me. On a good day maybe I could keep up with you, and thats inspiring! And you seem like such a nice person wich really shines thru! Thanks a bunch from Sweden!
Hello, my opinion why you are slower is because you choose not the fastest way down on rough terrain but more smoothly way and that is what hardtail teaches you. But is only my opinion and i can be wrong.
Try again after a couple of days back on the fully. I always found that after a period on a hardtail it would take me a couple of runs to remind my brain how much harder I could hit this on the fully. One thing I liked to do when I had the luxury of webbing both was switching backwards and forwards between the two. I would try to go as fast on the hardtail as on the fully,and hit the more aggressive lines. Then, on the fully, I would try to get as loose as I was on the hardtail, which could get scary fast. 🤣
I got two MTBs. One is a ladies' bike hardtail with air fork, and another fully rigid bike modernised into a touring bike. I'd say that a hardtail is good enough for me; the other bike gives me some ouches, but I'm okay.
The things learned on the hardtail, linechoice, bike handling and so on, has to be directly, and actively, applied the full suss, or it just doesn’t make sense. And,,,, a month just isn’t enough to make new habits and choose differently on the Trail.
I wish i have a fullsus bike someday since i didn't ride one yet since my hobby is biking here in Philippines. I really love biking on a trail with my budget bike.
Having started out on a 27.5 hardtail I would definitely agree with starting out on the hardtail and then moving up to a full suspension bike and I know for me it was more so really getting used to the bumps on the hardtail and then I was able to prepare for the bumps on this full suspension set up better
Even after a few years off a hardtail I can generally hop back on one and keep up with friends on full suss bikes, but I rode HT's for years before I got a FS. My old HT is retired and won't be used on the trails any more, but I might build up another for more regular HT excursions. They're two totally different beasts with different skill sets. A FS is faster to roll down a trail, but to really ride the bike properly and to its potential takes as much skill as a HT. By contrast it's probably easier to have fun on a HT.
Im looking for a budget hardtail I want a rather light machine so it's gonna be tricky, I hate how they usually cut corners on a crappy front shock but act like the msrp is really high, 7:21 , brands looked at so far canyon, orbea, trek, polygon, commencale, marin, and I should probably look at nukeproof hoping for a good sale, was gonna get a gravel commuting bike but a fast light mountainbike will work too, some nice trails around here
Hard pack, dry summer trails - use my full sus. Wet, soft, muddy winter trails - use my HT. No single bike is perfect for every situation and every bike will 'teach' you different techniques. Kudos for riding a HT at Ard rock
Most of my skills I developed in autumn when I switched to a rigid training bike with slicks and rode the same trails as in summer with the enduro bike
I'm not competitive at all and mostly self taught as a rider but I do mtbing sessions with kids as part of my job. I reckon I can generally spot those who ride a full suspension at home as they are less inclined to bend thier knees and elbows when up off the seat. So maybe a hardtail makes you a better rider if you're still learning initial skills, after that the gains are less dramatic and possibly go the other way as a full suspension gives you more confidence and speed?
I felt that my scout hard tail would of suited me better over my Oiz at the Ard Rock event. Also Ard rock should do a full rigid like 90s mtb’s category 🤣
Looks like you had more fun on the hard tail. And it made you get on a podium! In any case there was some uphill climbing missing in this test. If you’re only going to go downhill and if you care about speed then full suspension makes obvious sense. On a hard tail I slow down if only to not destroy the bike or get a flat.
They make you a different Rider. Not better not worse. Keep in mind all suspension bikes can't be ridden the same way. Some people have a style that is better suited to one type of bike or the other. Just to be safe you have to have one of every type of bike. You know, for scientific reasons
Your differences here may not be significant. If you do anything like this again you could time yourself on several runs, before and after, get average times and variances. This will help minimise the effect of other variables some that you thought of already pedal strokes and what have you. Just remember that the resalts you get can only apply to you and no one else i.e. what works for you will not work for everyone else. You could test the argument using several deferent people if you like.
Awesome video. My thoughts:
-It’d be interesting to see how the times would compare, if each test run had been repeated a few times. Hard to know what the baseline is with only a single run.
-Hardtails can help develop/refine skills in ways that may not be reflected in race times too. Being a slightly smoother rider, as an example, might help you avoid punctures during a race, even if it doesn’t dramatically impact your race time.
-Who says being a “better” rider means your times will be faster, or why that matters? :) It would be great to hear more detail about your subjective experience after making this video. On future rides on the full sus, do you notice any differences in your riding?
Great job Anna, as always…..and props for racing a hardtail!
I second that, "better" and "faster" are not the same.
Also true.
Also hard tails are about fun! So tired of everything being about times in the bike world. Loads of people run for fun, but everybody seems to think all biking is about speed. Also no way I’d never ride a race like she did on 27.5
I feel like there’s so much difference in the 2 bikes it comes down to practice. Totally different ride ability.. my first bike was 5 rides on my full suspension were kinda scary. It was my first full suspension bike. But 3 months later. I regretted getting back on the hard tail. Full was in the shop about a week waiting on parts. After getting reacquainted with my haardtail I knew it’s just what you get used to. I love them both in different ways for different reasons. Feels like polygamy a bit I guess. ❤❤❤😂😂😂😂
it's so simple, what do you use the bike for mostly, offroad trails beginner or advanced doesnt matter buy a fully, if you ride cross country or more on the normal road buy a hardtail, if you are rich buy both and use em for what they are made for. In general it seems like a hardtail is the better option if you can only afford one bike. She saz she's having fun on the hardtail but she's looks terrified as fuck and bet she aint having fun at all.
On the splitting of the run in to two halves, I think it would've been interesting to know these times for the hard tail, too. It's likely that you went faster in both halves as the month progressed on the hard tail but, I think more so on the first half.
As you gradually altered your style to accommodate the way the hard tail rides you likely restricted your speed in the second half yet, still went faster there also.
You then transfered this new style over to the full suspension which slowed you in the rough, as you pointed out.
All very interesting.
You gave up your full suspension for four weeks for this test. Quite the sacrifice - I bet you really missed the comfort and capability.
I ride full suspension and hardtail. I am no slower on hardtail and even ride hardtail in Scotland. Hardtail makes you feel more alive.
I think it would be more accurate if both bikes ran 29" wheels and the same travel on the front suspension.
Yes, I wish it would have been more “fair”, but I only had access to these bikes
@@AnnaOnTheBike a good comparison would be say a Santa Cruz Blur against a Santa Cruz Highball or a Yeti A.R.C against a Yeti SB115, Both these examples are aimed at XC/trail and all should have the same set up component wise. That way you could make a much more accurate comparison. I actually went back to an XC hardtail from a full suspension XC rig (both the same brand, size, set up ,etc) and got better race results over similar XC race circuits over two race seasons. I felt much more in control with the hardtail and less fatigued but would probably put that down to the hardtail being lighter than the full suspension bike. You do need to set the same fork (Fox 34 Stepcast) up differently on a hardtail to a full suspension rig though. Servicing and maintenance costs were cheaper with a the hardtail.
@@Stussy787 I guess I have to make a video about my NS Bikes excentric vs Pivot firebird. Both run 29ers in a similar categpry
@@AnnaOnTheBike and Tom Pidcock just won the European Championships in Munich on........a hardtail.
Yeah I find the difference riding 29” to 26 on a hard tail as big as the difference between hard tail and full sus
Thanks for the video Anna! You're a braver rider than most taking on that race on a hardtail. I find riding an aggressive hardtail is great fun but definitely slower and less controlled than riding on my Full Suspension bike. They both have their merits and compromises.
I agree with Blake... Silver spoon reference is spot on
The next step up is riding a fully rigid bike for a month 😂
It's also a great way to resurrect an older mountain bike, like my '84 Fischer Hoo-koo-e-koo. You really learn to use all your body's suspension.
@@not-fishing4730 Just in the process of rebuilding of Hoo Koo E Koo 2000 model myself can't wait!
Unicycle episode is going to be banging
@@snoopdutt1985 full suspension unicycle first just to be fair
I think she might have been. That fork wasn't moving much at all in those POV's.
From the results it looks like training on a HT makes a difference only on a HT. Maybe the riding style and technique required by the two kind of bikes is more diverse and different than we think. Nice interesting video 😊
As someone who rides a full suspension, but also loves riding my aggressive hardtail all the time too, I can definitely say it makes you a better rider. Plus variety is the spice of life. Love this video as a hardtail enthusiast.
I personally say yes, especially on rougher and tech trails, if anything it at least increases your tolerance and endurance for really rough sections of trail
I think that the improvements will be more evident in the medium/long terms. The point is that the HT is more difficult to ride, so you have to be more focused (and probably more skilled) to do the same things that you make in a full. However this is not necessarily a good thing, is just a fact: HT are more hard to ride than full bikes. It depends on a lot of others things too, like what you said, the confindence. In my case a think that helped, after a lot of years riding hardtails a finded really really easy going con full bike.
I agree with some of the other comments on doing a few different runs to see a comparison, also I think it’d be cool if a few of the gmbn crew did this all together so we can see how weight, height, and riding styles also affect this, because I’m an avid believer in the hardtail and have yet to go full sus one because I haven’t been able to afford it and because I’ve also been driven that a hardtail makes you better. Love your content I watch every day 👍 always finding videos I haven’t seen yet
This a good video all around. I like the more in depth analysis in the end finding out where the true advantage might be other than significantly better ride comfort on full suspension. Its cool you joined a race with it as well!
I feel like it improves one as a rider. I guess it's a matter of getting confident full send with the full squish again.
With the hands i can recommend Spank vibrocore bars. For me it was an absolute game changer! Before i atleast felt it till i was home 30mins after i got out of the woods and a 2hour ride. With those bars. Absolutely no hand pain what so ever.
Made a hell of a difference for me too! Coupled with ergon ga3(?) fat grips!
@@edwhite6574 In my case GD1 HT party likes em and i had GA on the old bike so i thought might as well try them. They are good yet when riding om the street the GA were better for without gloves
Love this video! I think hard tails will always lose out when pointed downhill. I ride a chromoly frame Hardtail (Norco Torrent S1) and a carbon frame full suspension (Norco Sight) on Vancouver’s North Shore, both with rockshox Lyric Ultimate forks. Rumour has it that the Torrent was designed to test the geometry for the Sight, so they are pretty similar setups.
I keep falling in love with the hard tail because it makes me focus 100% on the trail and gives me more of a precise feel in the janky climbing trails and other spots where balance is key.
Then I fall in love with the Sight because it is some much more comfortable to ride and so fast on the downhill sections, even if handling can feel a bit vague.
Did you find that difference between your bikes?
I’m happy with the full sus bike and ride it more often, but I absolutely love my hardtail and will never give it up. Could not tell you why I feel so different about the two bikes, but one is like a family member while the other is the like a reasonably entertaining co-worker. Go figure!
Well done Anna for taking on a challenge like this. It's been a very long time since I had a hardtail (a Giant Cadex CFM 3) I'm sure at the time it was preparing me for future bikes. I really don't think I could go back now.
My opinion would be that its all down to intelligent line choice and learning what is a good line is. Not suprised at all that an experienced rider like Anna doesn't benifit from that test. A new rider that rode, lets say a month on a full susp then a month on a hardtail and then went back to full susp would like benefit greatly.
Good parallel. Good perspective and comparation. - Question: Perhaps you Anna and your teammate Doddy could make a video about your decisions (your work, preperations, considerations) in relation to bike geometry and your choices concerning your riding-styles. Kind regards from Denmark
How spoiled MTB has become.😔
Ard Rock on a hardtail 💪 Loved my P7 29er, never thought I’d go full sus, now Orange Stage Evo ❤️❤️
What a fantastic video, you need to more of there. I ride my hardtail like I ride my dual sus, to the limits but would never give up my hardtail, it has helped me progress drastically.
Like I say, I hope you do more of these vids, they’re fantastic
Great video especially as a novice progressing with a hardtail (a Scott Scale 29er). The showdown at the end is inspiring to hear as you say you have more confidence with the full sus, and that's great news as I move to one in 12months time.
Great video - and Ard Rock looked epic!!!
You should do a recap after getting back on the full sus for a month
Hardtail skills make you more conscious of your lines for shure... An it takes time to develop the kind ofquick deliberate line choosing for smoothing out the trail.
Going back to the full sus you will probably end up putting a thousand tiny line changes, where you could have relied on suspension.
Also it takes time to get back into the handling and timing you need for each bike.
... For me the big suprise really came this year in the alps on really steep and rough trails, where i could just let my full sus get up to speed and then just dance in-between lines on the go even on new to me trails.
... You just read the trail on a different scope as the suspension makes other lines viable at speed... And speed puts the energy into the system to flick around a bulkyer bike, as you would already need to with the hardtail on less severe terrain.
The trail you where on kind of didn't really necessitate linechoice.
(i still have a lot of trails where my best strava times are on the 140mm-hardtail, just because of rolling speed and pumping, and because there is little to be gained from full sus)
Hello, there! Greeting from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Well, I simply love HT's and I cannot explain why. Anyway, I've got a new bike about 45 days ago, switching from a HT XC MTB to a Full suspension Trail. It is a heck of a change. This New bike is my first Full Susp. Actually, is also the very first time I even tried a full susp. So, I don't know how the HT helped my development as a biker but I do fell more confident in the trails. Also, in my HT, frequently I was more concerned in saving my arse from falls instead of simply having fun. The Full Susp is all about fun. I am not able to ride in the top positions in my category when competing, but this is not because Full Susp/HT discussion....it's because the type of the MTB but I am in peace with that. Well, sorry about my noob points but I really enjoy your channel. Final point: I do miss my old HT XC MTB. On any given day, I will get me a third bike: XC Full Susp MTB just for competition since we have several XCO and XCM here in Brazil.
I appreciate the effort put into this, very good work!
As a long time rider who never owned a FS (I spend much more time climbing than descending where I ride), I have noticed that the riders who make the switch continue use the same technique on the HT which is totally understandable.
In my view, you have to move your weight much more on the HT, and when it gets steep and gnarly the rider's bottom should be as rearwards and low as possible. The front should be loaded to the minimum and the wrists an elbows as loose as possible without losing control.
Also tyre pressure should be set as low as safely possible, and tyres with thinner supple sidewalls tend to absorb the bumps much better (a good idea is to go with an even thinner carcass on the front, which is less prone to sidewall damage).
Having the saddle a bit higher than the maximum insert helps me control the bike better with my thighs.
I think some of the biggest improvement to my handling skills came from riding my CX bike regularly on single track. The hard tail still lets you get away with a multitude of sins given the wide tyres and front fork, where there are no get out of jail free cards with narrower tyres and a fully rigid bike.
I’ve only ever owned a hardtail currently a nukeproof scout and I’m almost nervous to go onto a full sus because I’m really comfy and used to it, I know exactly how it’s going to react and I almost think I’d be slower on a full sus 😅
I own both and honestly it really depends what you normally ride.
If you enjoy talking your time through tech trails and don't do much jumps, HT is really enjoyable.
FS on the other hand is super forgiving, so if you enjoy speed (especially over rough terrain) and jumps, FS is much more enjoyable.
Personally the trails and rides i do are much more fun on a HT (FS honestly takes the fun out of it by mellowing it all out) so I'm going back to HT for the foreseeable future.
Also I'm too lazy to service the rear of a FS...
I prefer my hardtail to my expensive full suspension.
Learn to do most jobs and you can make improvements as you go, maybe hire a mtb or try a test day for the exotic stuff.
Really cool video. Also it's mighty impressive that there was only a 5 second difference on the hardtail. 🙌
I love my hardtail, but that competition terrain looked really rough, and even I would consider full suspension for that kind of tracks.
I've always been a hardtail guy since I started riding (but I do xc only lol) 😎👊🏻🔝
Try doing xc on a full sus 😂 the beauty of hard tails is that they make you a better rider, and if you’re a good rider you can do anything on them well. Full sus are one trick ponies and the majority of people who ride them most of the time don’t ride them on trials where you really need them, unless you’re a crap rider
Possibly my FS riding improves my short travel HT riding by building up my body English and commitment which pays dividends on the lighter, livelier and more fun HT. But on brutal rough trails you start suffering fast on the HT! The issue with the FS is not just the weight and slow handling but the unpredictability of the suspension and geometry which I find upsets my front back balance and cornering precision. I’ve never been able to get the bloody thing set up right! Great fun video BTW Thanks
Great Video and content. I’ve been riding a SS hard tail for about a year. Last weekend I rode a 15 mile loop with an average speed of 8.9. Lots of climbing and hilly rocky terrain. I rode the same loop on my Full Sus with gears and was actually slower 8.7….I attack more out of the saddle and line choice is important on my Single Speed HT. You don’t wear gloves!?! Your hardcore!
As I only have ridden a hardtail. For me in my neighborhood good enough, it would be more interesting to see what I would do on a full suspension. Going back and forth on different bikes probably doesn't help much. Great video!
Same here. I can't afford a full suspension bike, so I happily ride my hardball blissfully unaware of the difference.
Unless you’re doing really gnarly downhills they’re overkill, and you d hate them on the flats and uphill.
I went from 180mm full sus, to smaller full sus, to 29er long fork hardtail, to a custom 130mm 27.5 hardtail, which I've now single speeded and it's my only bike. Simpler bikes make more happiness and lower speeds IMO.
I've got a 27.5 xl hardtail and i love it! Also, came from. 29er full-sus. I really like the simplicity and i think hardtails are way more predictable. You dont need to think about suspension rebound etc in the rear. What you see is what you get
Silver Pike with the yellow frame👌😍
To really get an accurate result, you would need to give yourself some time to apply the skills learned on the hardtail to the full-suspension. For example, to ride a hardtail fast, you need to pick smoother lines and jump over roots and rocks to maintain momentum. When getting back on the full-suspension, you are going to tend to ride the same way you rode the hardtail. You are going to pick smoother and slower lines. You need to readjust to the increased capabilities of the suspension. Picking straighter lines and rougher landings is where time can be saved with a full-suspension.
Nice vid. I think riding a hardtail made you faster on the flows. I'd assume it's because while riding a hardtail you've been looking for fun, and you found more fun on the flows. So you either
a) have been ridng more flowy trails, or
b) have put more focus into the flowy sections on your rides/workouts
Riding a HT has taught me the value of good line choice. I also have one so that I can ride more mellow terrain and still have a good time
I'm a Florida rider who barely knows the meaning of downhill, but I recently went to Pisgah and met a guy on the climb who rides downhill regularly that grew up in the area and was staying in New York. We rode Upper, Middle, and Lower Black. He was on a carbon full sus and I was on a 2019 Ragley Marley with an MRP Ribbon air fork that I can't get tuned properly for some reason. I was, more or less, able to keep up with him on my first time riding downhill ever. I wasn't able to follow a lot of his lines, and he was definitely just a faster rider so he stopped and waited for me at a few points, but I was with him most of the way down.
Very interesting experiment and cool video! congrats!
Rough stuff is for a full sus. You can do it on a HT no problem but the ideal way is a full sus. Cornering and flow is best on HT.
Both bikes can do everything and is up to you and what you can afford what you get. For me, is definitely a hardtail.
Coming from a HT rider myself, I agree with the fork setup observation, I like the initial firmness and suppleness overall, as you tend to ride the full stroke of the forks. But overall you could improve further by riding clipped rather than flats for HT. You should have a better climb ability and pedaling any trails that undulate for HT advantage. You should be able to pick a better line generally than just smashing it, as at the end of the day less tired. Depending on the trail, jumps are the main difference.
7:29 is such a beautiful moment 😍
Impressive to see a lady riding a hardtail hard. I am a diehard hartail rider and know how tough it is on the body. Well done!!!
I use my hardtail for the winter, cheaper spec on it as I'll go through a casette and couple of chains over the winter months.
On flowy single track is always faster on a HT. And on climbs nothing beats a HT. Most riders don’t need 150mm travel rear suspension bikes. Keep in mind a HT is a cross country bike with CC geometry so riding it like AM is quite dumb.
I've kinda had this experiment over the last few years with a fat bike. I've actually learned to wheelie and whip with the fatbike. The lethargic, gyroscopic effect of the rear wheels, aided in me not overwhipping, and the stability of a nice wide wheel while trying to wheelie. I've also used it in tech gnar - the floating feeling of the rear wheel takes some getting used to, and it makes the full sus much sweeter going back to it. Strangely, depending on the track, the massive grip of the fattie on off camber roots and small bumps made it pretty capable compared to full sus (easier to commit). But for bigger rocks, compressions, jumps, blown out tracks or faster tracks the fattie got overwhelmed. In a lot of cases the rolling speed is just much slower on the fattie so it's hard to compete there. It's been a fun experiment.
From my strava times at my local I'm faster on my full sus overall, mostly because the 29" wheels and suspension gives me more confidence to push the bike harder thus making me faster.
Love my hardtail but I only really use it in winter on milder trails or on local bike rides.
Exactly. Hardtails can be fun but when I try to ride one like I ride my full sus it gets sketchy quick😅
29er on a hardtail helps smooth it out.
I think that perhaps alternating between the bikes over the month may have yielded different results. It would mean you would have maintained confidence on the full sus while increasing confidence on the hardtail.
I find I need a few rides to get used to a bike and this may have been that.
Loved the video!
one thing i allways HEAR when people riding a hardtail after long time on full sus: They are laughing so much more! Yes they can be scary but sometimes it gives you the fun back if you have to work more to ride those trails. I love hardtails!
Awesome video idea!
Great and interesting film . Definitely your best film so far on your GMBN journey 👍👍👍
Nukeproof Scouts look so good.
I suppose it depends on your local tracks too as to what people purchase? If faster/flowy hardtail would be great. If more technical and rough, then full sus.
you speak of hardtail challenge while a hardtail is my dream bike after always riding a rigid bike
This is so awesome and encouraging
Re-familiarise with the full sus for a week or two and then do the timed run again. Some left over hardtail reticence to hit the rougher stuff could well have hindered.
Yup. I’m riding a specialized fuse comp. I’m exhausted. 2000 miles on it
Unless you did a couple of runs with the full sus after the 30 days it's not really possible to get a good reading. Your first run is just to get your body used to riding full sus again, so it would probably take a few runs before you could incorporate any new skills acquired from the HT.
Pro silicone grips. Dampens the vibration good, cheap and lightweight also.
forget it, I do not like hardtails even for a city bike. And she confirmed that riding hardtails makes you....a better hardtail rider. Thank you!
As a committed hardtail rider I can tell you one place I win hands-down over my full-sus & ebike buddies. Locked Gates & Styles. I just don’t see the problem 😂
Also big difference is if clicks or flat´s on a ht!
One second faster! Oh my days!!!
Great video BTW
Huh. Never really thought about it, but my fs and ht have almost the exact same geo, and I do run the ht fork a lot stiffer.
I think a few more runs on the soft tail so you could get used to trusting it again would help. You were slower on the chattery stuff you'd instinctually take slower on a hardtail.
Awesome video! Cool to watch the test and even in a race!
I love my hard tail, but it’s a 29r and you rode a 650B. That may have squirreled your results a bit. I used to have a full sus Cannondale that was great but had seen many seasons. After watching Blake take on Megavelanch on a hard tail I used the full sus as a trade in. I got a great Andante hard tail with h disc, dropper post, and excellent one by Mech. Love it.
"Oh, My Daze!" 😝
I love riding my hardtail, I'm used to the rooty terrain and rough terrain
I ride a hardtail and i would'nt use it for downhill, i find it most effective in trails and i
also like it in urban areas where the roads are bad and to jump over the curbs.
love my merida big nine hardtail, but wud like to get new modern gears, for easier gearchange on the trails so think I need to upgrade my bike
I think this video also shows that the modern hardtails are more capable than they have ever been! A hardtail will never be as comfortable, or give the same amount of traction as a full-suspension bike, but I believe the gap in performance between a hardtail and a full-suspension bike has shrunk. I recently decided to buy a modern hardtail, because honestly, I'm not going to ride extremely technical trails. It does not bother me to hike-a-bike for 50-100 feet. If I can ride 95% of a trail, that's good enough for me.
Great video! Your videos are so inspiring because seem to be about the same level as my mates and me. On a good day maybe I could keep up with you, and thats inspiring! And you seem like such a nice person wich really shines thru! Thanks a bunch from Sweden!
Hello, my opinion why you are slower is because you choose not the fastest way down on rough terrain but more smoothly way and that is what hardtail teaches you. But is only my opinion and i can be wrong.
Try again after a couple of days back on the fully. I always found that after a period on a hardtail it would take me a couple of runs to remind my brain how much harder I could hit this on the fully.
One thing I liked to do when I had the luxury of webbing both was switching backwards and forwards between the two. I would try to go as fast on the hardtail as on the fully,and hit the more aggressive lines. Then, on the fully, I would try to get as loose as I was on the hardtail, which could get scary fast. 🤣
I got two MTBs. One is a ladies' bike hardtail with air fork, and another fully rigid bike modernised into a touring bike. I'd say that a hardtail is good enough for me; the other bike gives me some ouches, but I'm okay.
The things learned on the hardtail, linechoice, bike handling and so on, has to be directly, and actively, applied the full suss, or it just doesn’t make sense. And,,,, a month just isn’t enough to make new habits and choose differently on the Trail.
I wish i have a fullsus bike someday since i didn't ride one yet since my hobby is biking here in Philippines. I really love biking on a trail with my budget bike.
Would have been good to see the full sus again after riding it for a week, gives time to get used to it again and any improvement skills would show
Having started out on a 27.5 hardtail I would definitely agree with starting out on the hardtail and then moving up to a full suspension bike and I know for me it was more so really getting used to the bumps on the hardtail and then I was able to prepare for the bumps on this full suspension set up better
Even after a few years off a hardtail I can generally hop back on one and keep up with friends on full suss bikes, but I rode HT's for years before I got a FS. My old HT is retired and won't be used on the trails any more, but I might build up another for more regular HT excursions. They're two totally different beasts with different skill sets. A FS is faster to roll down a trail, but to really ride the bike properly and to its potential takes as much skill as a HT. By contrast it's probably easier to have fun on a HT.
Im looking for a budget hardtail I want a rather light machine so it's gonna be tricky, I hate how they usually cut corners on a crappy front shock but act like the msrp is really high, 7:21 , brands looked at so far canyon, orbea, trek, polygon, commencale, marin, and I should probably look at nukeproof hoping for a good sale, was gonna get a gravel commuting bike but a fast light mountainbike will work too, some nice trails around here
Hard pack, dry summer trails - use my full sus.
Wet, soft, muddy winter trails - use my HT.
No single bike is perfect for every situation and every bike will 'teach' you different techniques.
Kudos for riding a HT at Ard rock
Great video and always good to show riding hardtails compared with full sus bikes. More please
Most of my skills I developed in autumn when I switched to a rigid training bike with slicks and rode the same trails as in summer with the enduro bike
I'm not competitive at all and mostly self taught as a rider but I do mtbing sessions with kids as part of my job. I reckon I can generally spot those who ride a full suspension at home as they are less inclined to bend thier knees and elbows when up off the seat. So maybe a hardtail makes you a better rider if you're still learning initial skills, after that the gains are less dramatic and possibly go the other way as a full suspension gives you more confidence and speed?
Hardtail is a diff breed.. the OG
I felt that my scout hard tail would of suited me better over my Oiz at the Ard Rock event.
Also Ard rock should do a full rigid like 90s mtb’s category 🤣
As a overweight rider. A hard tail makes you go much faster and does not suck out your energy. Speed keeps you going to the next phase.
HD is for a beginner on a budget! That's it
I have a hardtail to improve endurance and a full to improve technique.
These how to improve .,skills videos really help 👍
Hardtails kill you're back but they do make you better rider
Nice to see Anna is as insane as the fellas. 😆 Love it!
Hardtail is just more affordable all around. I love my Giant
Looks like you had more fun on the hard tail.
And it made you get on a podium!
In any case there was some uphill climbing missing in this test.
If you’re only going to go downhill and if you care about speed then full suspension makes obvious sense. On a hard tail I slow down if only to not destroy the bike or get a flat.
They make you a different Rider. Not better not worse. Keep in mind all suspension bikes can't be ridden the same way. Some people have a style that is better suited to one type of bike or the other. Just to be safe you have to have one of every type of bike. You know, for scientific reasons
100% makes you a better rider. I love my full sus, however, love my hardtail just as much! Did a ride on the hardtail this eve actually.
This is awesome!
Your differences here may not be significant. If you do anything like this again you could time yourself on several runs, before and after, get average times and variances. This will help minimise the effect of other variables some that you thought of already pedal strokes and what have you. Just remember that the resalts you get can only apply to you and no one else i.e. what works for you will not work for everyone else. You could test the argument using several deferent people if you like.