After engaging the content once, I can say with certainty that some fascinating conclusions can be made that interact with my mental-breakdown-focused sensibilities. Once I've had time to reflect, I hope to engage this content again soon so I can see if any more observations can be made, perhaps in the realm of thought-provoking essay work.
What's unfortunate is that they did the Meerkats as dirty as they did the Hyenas. Meerkats are aggressive warrior-like little critters that can sleep off snake venom, hunt small lizards and regularly eat venomous insects like scorpions and Millipedes. They defend their burrows fervently and have a strict social hierarchy that isn't even hinted at in any version of the movies all while maintaining tight familial bonds and careful relationships between each other. They're such a complex little species.
They even did Lions dirty In nature, Lions aren't this top down hierarchy with the lion at the top and the lionesses and cubs serving him It's more like he's the bodyguard and "elected sex mayor" of the lionesses who fight off other lions to keep the lioness' cubs alive The lionesses will help the lion fight off his rival if they like him, but they'll let him get his ass handed to him on his own if they don't It's a more even relationship between the lionesses and lion(s, sometimes a pride has a couple of lion brothers as the "sex mayors" "elected" by the lionesses) Basically, Lionesses are the regular population that get food and raise kids, while the lion is the guy they call when another lion wants some poon Change is difficult and the lionesses don't want their cubs to die, so the lion goes out If they like him, they'll help, if not, he either wins or loses
@@cloudypine3683 They occupy a similar niche to lions, so lions and hyenas are constantly competing for the same prey and often lay waste to each other's young
Something that’s always ticked me off is how the Lion King popularised the idea that lions are the unchallenged top predators of the savanna, while hyenas are the dumb, pathetic scavengers destined to scrounge off of the predators. On the contrary, hyenas themselves ARE predators, and are known to kill most of their prey, while also directly competing with not only lions, but also leopards, wild dogs, cheetahs, and other predators. They also have jaws powerful enough to crush right through bone and intelligence rivalling or even surpassing primates in some areas such as teamwork. A troop of hyenas is a terrifying force to be reckoned with, and it’s even been theorised by some that the reason lions evolved to live in prides was BECAUSE of pressure from hyenas. Another thing I want to mention is that, when raised in isolation away from these competitive conditions, hyenas and lions can actually be quite friendly towards each other if taught to socialise properly with each other, as can a lot of animals that normally can’t stand each other, thereby further suggesting that the whole “behaviour is an unchangeable part of us” isn’t even true given the fact that both humans and animals are capable of adapting our behaviour.
Lion King 1 1/2 had a quantifiable impact on my life. The special features had a dark ride simulator where you rode a robot wildebeest through the story of the lion king where things go wrong. I remember a scene where the Hyenas chase you and then the lights turn on and they’re just eyes on sticks. I work in lighting in theme parks now.
@@loslobos786 naw you're just an ignoramus, lmfao she perfectly spells out all the metaphors from the movies in this video and they seem more than just intentional, it may take someone "crazy" or maybe just "educated"(same thing to people like you right?) to see what most don't but that doesn't mean the very idea is crazy. Something tells me your an ignorance is bliss kind of person, so I'm gonna stop before you try and find my communist a$$
If you really think she's unhinged for noticing glaring and seemingly intentional metaphors then I'm guessing you think anyone with any type of nuanced understanding of anything is also "unhinged" by their obsessions right?
@@QueezTheDefiantScientist lol this isn't nuanced, it's insanity there are no metaphors here just the ravings of a self admitted women who suffers from depression anxiety and probably a host or other problems!! What's more likely that Timon and his mother have Jewish mannerism because the actors playing them are Jewish or because Lion King 1/2 is a secret allegory for the book of Exodus??? It always astounds me that people pay no attention to the Bum on the street corners ravings but one loca girl with a psychology degree online makes a video and she suddenly has a point. No wonder this country is FD we let you people vote.
You know *as a black person* I always saw the Lions as “African” growing up. Like legitimately I never once saw them as “white” or whatever? They had African names, many of them were voiced by black/African people, all the songs were African, especially the Circle of Life…I just assumed that it was a homage to African people personified as animals in this story… And that the Hyenas might represent out groups taking over pre-established lands and peoples with their greed. (Kinda like that Colonialism thing that happened which destroyed the balance in many African peoples land and actually cause famine and death..) So like the concept that apparently many many people, including white supremacists see the lions as white is really weird to me. And the fact that the text is seeing the Hyenas as lowlife people and representing the black people or whatever is kinda weird to process. It’s like saying The Proud Family is actually about white people with re-vitiligo. :/ Maybe because I see the Lion King from this perspective is why I can never discredit it or it’s message as bad? Because like…all you have to do is change the groups and situations around and suddenly it’s not the same meaning at all.
As a kid who grew up with this movie, I found it really fascinating to watch. As a kid named TOM who grew up with this movie, I collapsed in my seat laughing.
OH MY GOD (why had I not considered that other people named Tom could watch this video? Sorry to reach through the screen and yell at you specifically lmao!)
@@The_Sin_Squad It's all good! I was just... VERY caught off guard. Didn't help that I grew up in a place full of Boston accents and mostly Jewish classmates - this video got real meta *real quick* right then.
"your red is different from my red; I can't see through the blood" holy SHIT what a line to drop in a comedy bit in a video about a direct-to-dvd lion king sequel
@jaredjams4267I think it means some people can ignore the bad things happening in the world while others can’t. “See through the blood” as in “look past the issues”. Some people can turn a blind eye to the bigoted kind of stuff happening, but usually those who are either affected or empathetic find it impossible to ignore. “Your red is different from my red” might mean “your idea of bigotry and bad things aren’t like mine”. Most people expect bigotry and tragedies to be obviously bad, but it’s not; there’s microaggressions and horrible things that don’t seem like a big deal at first.
BTW I’ve barely watched the video, but based on the fact it’s about white pride and Judaism (in the form of a Disney movie), and the possible nuances to the quote op said, I’m just kinda eyeballing it.
A quote that also applies to the hypocrisy of calling the actions of one group and ignoring the similarities in others. Specifically a lack of mentions on the concept of goyim and how that fits into this whole comparison.
"A lot of you already probably consider Timon jewish" Me, who had never head about this interpretation before: "Well, better get comfortable, this gonna be wild" That said, I didn't expect to be hit in the face with a brick of sign interpretation every 10 minutes. Thanks a lot, I loved it.
Timon is not Jewish the actor who plays him is, as is the actress who played his Mother that's why he has perceived Jewish behaviors. It's the same BS that got George Lucas and the guy who played Jar Jar Binks in trouble. The Actor is Black so the character had black mannerisms, tone of voice, the way he walks. Since you saw an Alien dimwit instead of a Black Jamaican Man with these attributes your neurotic grown up brain with all its hang ups and such couldn't compute this and just saw racism. Rather than the reality of an Actor playing the Comedy relief who just happened to be Black. This is why little Children love Jar Jar but adults hate him, they don't have our hang ups. This is basically what this Woman failed to realize when she made this garbage and we are all dumber for having watched it.
If you listen more than 2 seconds, (and know jews) then you'd see she'S 100% right. but you wanna jump to conclusions and get all offended before actually listening...ok.
@@craigcj5953Timon's voice actor Nathan Lane is from a Catholic family in New Jersey and then moved to NYC early in his acting career, so I can understand him getting influenced by Jews growing up and that shaping his comedic delivery
The eating the mug bit fricken got me. Nothing will ever be able to describe my frustration of media's whack takes on incredibly complex topics that they are not nearly equipped to handle like this clip.
my little pony friendship is magic trying and failing to have a conversation about native americans and colonization and ending with a pie fight and a “sharing is caring” message come to mind
“The Lion King is kind of about racial hierarchy” is a take I’m familiar with, but “meerkats are jews what does that MEEEEEAN!?” is new to me. Great video.
'Its bad when movies have loose analogy to racial heirarchy but its ok when the Jews actually practise racial hierarchy':(Israel). Thats what she was trying to say. "Judaism, promised lands, racial pride, ethnic supremacy, paranoia" and she deliberately ignored the big elephant in her own room.
@@aintnoslice3422 or, maybe she spent 50 minutes saying exactly what she wanted to? Isreal isn't even fully supported by Jewish people internationally. America for instance supports it primarily because our Evanganical Fundementalists(which is the largest voting block of our extreme conservative party) require its existence so that it can be destroyed at the end of the world, and as their concern isnt on the wellbeing of people, and rather directly wishing for their destruction, the atrocities Israel are responsible for are ignored. ButI'm not willing to extend the responsibility for wrongdoings to people that are tangentially related.
@aintnoslice3422 and I think what you're saying is we need to start a massive harrasment campaign against this person until she declares the lion king is about jesus or something and she's sowwy
"If we're worried our kids might have taken the wrong message from a film, we can sit them down and talk to them." I want that quote written on a monument that will be built over a crypt containing every Disney live action remake.
You have to keep in mind a lot of parents put movies on to keep their kid distracted or as a way to ease the burden of raising them themselves and thus won't be having these sit down and talk moments with their kids. They put faith in the idea that Disney is a family friendly company and could only have the consumer's best interest in mind. I cannot recall a single instance of my overworked, immigrant parents ever starting a nuanced discussion of anything that they let me watch. And anything that they didn't let me watch was swept away as soon as something "too heavy" happened, often in a way so abrupt that I was compelled to search for these heavy topics completely on my own, at times piecing together answers from other media, which of course meant it was a long confusing journey to finally getting a full picture of the world at large. It is still important to criticize what is being put out by these media companies and not just berating parents (either willfully or ignorantly neglecting their child's intellectual development) if we want to actually help those children who would most be disadvantaged from the problematic elements of these movies.
I loved how this video essay went from like. Intense breakdown of the undertones of a disney movie to intense breakdown of the constructs of society to intense mental breakdown. Beautiful work, never change, this is why I keep coming back.
Existing on UA-cam during Gamergate has taught me that you often can't even talk about the shit neo nazis do these days to sane people who are not aware of their influence cause you end up sounding like a crazy person. It's like talking about declassified CIA docs. It's like the absurdity is part of their tactics to get away with things at times.
@@KookiesNolly exactly this and i feel like i'm losing my mind. someone had to sit down with the mission to write a parody of we are one with the intention to spread alt right ideals. someone wrote those lyrics, someone sang and recorded said lyrics with the end goal of getting furries on their side. this is a reality we live in when this was done with complete and utter seriousness. if it wasn't properly documented i would be fully convinced it was just pulled from a fake tumblr post but no, it's very real.
@@KookiesNolly What do the real neo nazis do? All I see are glowie larpers who openly operate when it serves to strengthen government control over social issues. Never forget that the leaders of such groups have always been feddies and funded by them.
While the racial reading of the hyenas and the idea that their inferiority caused the environmental desolation are made explicit in the remake, I think the more intuitive reading of the original is that the drought & famine come as retribution against Scar himself for disrupting the “natural order” of *royal succession.* The hyenas get far less blame from the lionesses than Scar in that version, so it comes off as “nature” (God) punishing him and his kingdom for not being a “true king.” Still a monarchist narrative with racial overtones in its theming, I just don’t think the original conveys nearly as strong a connection between the hyenas being “out of place” and the ecological collapse.
But there's something to be said about Scar being very effeminate, SIGNIFICANTLY darker than his brother than the other lions, and queer coded being the corruptor of the natural order.
That's how I read it too, at the end of the day The Lion King is a modern day Parable, like you'd read in Aesop's Fables. It's not intended as an endorsement of any real world power structure, it's a "just-so" story featuring Animals. It's not propaganda for white supremacists, and anyone who reads it that way - is probably a racist.
While it makes sense narratively, I also like the interpretation that it was just bad timing that the drought happened and the point of it in the story was to show the kind of leader Scar is under a bad circumstance. Because it's easy to be a leader when things are going well, but when things are bad and you have to make tough decisions is what separates the good and bad leaders. And Scar was repeatedly shown to not be putting in the effort, blaming others, wanting respect for doing nothing, and when the time came for a hard decision (leaving Pride Rock to follow the herds for food) he outright said he'd rather they all die then leave Pride Rock aka admitting how bad things are and fixing it aka literally and metaphorically putting HIS pride over THE pride.
Yeah, I remember also being puzzled about the fate of the Pride Lands after Scar's coup when I stopped to think about it, and then I read MacBeth for the first time and something clicked. The fact that the plot of The Lion King kind of resembles Egyptian mythology kind of reminded me of how I'd heard that pharaohs were apparently seen as being the ones responsible for the Nile's inundating, which would presumably mean that the nation not having a legitimate pharaoh would lead to a drought. I also kind of like the wackjob interpretation that it was Zeus that caused the drought, being personally angered by Scar's assassination, and then later told his son to kill him, hence his being shown dead in Hercules.
@@tomasmccauley569 It's possible, but I highly doubt that's the narrative the movie was going for. I'm pretty sure Scar was only voiced by Jeremy Irons because he's a very good actor, and because it's tradition for villains in American cinema to have British, European or Russian accents. Because they sound exotic and cultured, decidely un-American. The Lion King is basically Hamlet with Lions at its core, with a skin of African culture stretched over it.
After watching the section on "paranoid reading", I felt something positive although not sure what specific emotion to call it. I think "paranoid reading" is not just an issue we're facing today (particularly in online discourse), but that there's an equivalent version of it when it comes to the act of writing. I'm constantly scrutinizing my own writing because I'm so worried of unintentionally writing a negative message I didn't intend, even when it comes to writing things based on my own experiences and identity. I've seen writers who wrote stories about *their own identities* and get torn apart by their allies for what I now believe were paranoid readings, and not even being part of the community they were accused of being offensive against helped in the discourse. I'm scared thinking about writing about my own identity - as a woman, as queer, as autistic - that I'll I unintentionally offend or deeply upset someone from my own communities, that I'll accidentally write a stereotype I didn't know existed, that I'll accidentally contribute to a broader harmful trend. I've procrastinated on finally getting to producing these stories out of fear I haven't made them full-proof against people accusing me over something I didn't try to be.
I can at least tell you you're not alone. So, so, sooooo many marginalized creators feel that same fear. If I may get up on my soapbox: I feel like more and more people have learned to dig for the most bad faith reading first, and then-rather than double back and consider, like, the author's humanity, or other opposing-but-still-valid reads-use that paranoid analysis as a cudgel to shame and punish the creator. It's been bizarre to watch unfold online: I've seen fans admit to feeling PRESSURED by their peers to perform this type of analysis-turned-hound-hunting just to keep the target off their own backs. Others use callouts to accrue social brownie points, or even to bond with fellow fans. The good faith criticism gets lost in the noise. And like you pointed out, this culture of paranoid analysis begets paranoid creators. For a lot of creators, the question has shifted from "What if I get dogpiled over my work?" to "WHEN will I get dogpiled over my work?" I’ve been dogpiled myself over fanfic already (I was accused of racism for "assigning animalistic characteristics to characters of color" because I wrote a SFW omegaverse fic with main characters of color). I wish I had an easy solution for you. I believe in reflection and sensitivity readers. And I also believe, like I stated in the video, that minorities are not a monolith. Maybe this won’t do anything for you, but personally-it got a lot easier for me to write once I’d accepted my work would always harm SOMEONE. I really don’t think there’s such a thing as a completely non-offensive piece of fiction. We talk about perpetuating harmful tropes through our work, but from one autistic queer woman to another…I’m pretty sure all of my favorite ace, autistic, and female characters could, given the right framing, be labeled as regressive or offensive. My favorite ace character (Jonathan Sims) exceeds some notable, stereotypical ace criteria right off the bat; he’s presented as awkward and cold and (later) less-than-human. But his ace-ness means so much to me as an ace person. Some ace people feel differently about Jon, and I suppose that’s the point. The harm some people take from a piece of media doesn’t necessarily negate the joy taken by others. If you try to remove all the harm from your work-any aspect which could be construed as offensive or regressive-you’ll get styrofoam every single time. This type of paranoia, from both the reader and writer side of the aisle, is really, really good at producing white, cishetero, neurotypical, god-honoring moral fables. And I want to stress that even the most bland saltine of a story can still get you dogpiled, for no other reason than someone got bored. I don’t know you or your situation, but I hope you can let some of that self-scrutiny go. You will, almost certainly, unintentionally offend or deeply upset someone with your work. I wish I could tell you how to balance creative freedom with like, some amount of care and awareness, but I don’t think there’s any one recipe re: “How to recognize/honor good faith criticism and also not paralyze your creative process.” It’s okay to not know all the answers. I’m sorry the creative atmosphere is so tense right now, and I wish you so much joy and freedom in your pursuits.
What y'all are talking about is so close to home. I two, also worry about paranoid reading of my own writing. Tho I'm still figuring out my own self, I can say I do desire to possibility write A gay or trans character. But I fear someone interpreting my story as offensive mainly cause the use of Anthropomorphic animals. Which is not my intention whatsoever but I worry someone my interpret my characters as bad representation. Anywho have A good one fellow writers.
Watching an unhinged breakdown of a kid's movie at 2am is a weird way to have your entire outlook towards artistic/textual interpretation completely changed for the better, but that definitely just happened to me. Thanks for blowing my mind in the most artful, clever, sincere, and absolutely ridiculous way possible.
I'm a zoologist, and I sometimes spend my time debunking myths left in the wake of the Lion King, for starters, a lion pride is not a state or nation such as a kingdom, it's a family, but here's where it gets complicated, some lion prides are all male, and some have a lioness matriarchy, in fact, lion prides are passed down through the female line, when the male lion cub grows up, it is expected to leave never to return to the pride of its birth, the female lion cubs on the other hand retain a presence in the pride, the Lion Queen is perhaps a more accurate representation of lion biology. A troubling thing, I have noticed about the Lion King is more than its white supremacist overtones, but also sexist overtones, boosting the status of male lions to the top of the hierarchy, while the lionesses job is to produce offspring, and provide food for their king, because this expected of females as a lower status to the males. In the wild, and yes captivity, it's the lioness who rules, they even have the ability to banish males, not doing enough to benefit the pride, eats more than their fair share of meat, or is too rough on the other lions, the lioness will gang up and fight the male, forcing them to leave, so for those who believe democracy does not exist in the wild, should try observing animals more, and watching cartoons less. Nala could have been the main protagonist, and Simba as a deuteragonist, it would have balanced out the characters as lions in the wild, and lions as human symbolism, it might have reduced the right conservatism, as understood in the western world, and it is interesting Lion King 1 1/2 actually deconstructs the narrative of the previous films. By the way, lions are not noble characters, in the wild they do tend to steal kills from spotted hyenas, so they are not always diligent hunters, interpret that as you will, finally, meerkats are not indigenous to east Africa, their name comes from Afrikaans, they are a south African mongoose, their habitat is even more inhospitable, such as the Namib and Kalahari deserts.
I like your ideas and I think the idea with Nala is a good idea as soon as Simba was shirking his duty she should have just been like fine I’ll do it myself
jokes aside we gotta grow up at some point n actually study these things with rigor. videos like these are fun but are absolutely not a substitute for study.
I loved this movie when I was a kid, and I always knew that Timon had to be Jewish. I felt like Timon's family was basically my family (I even have an Uncle Max who is a lot like Timon's Uncle Max). Thank you for putting into words that feeling of familiarity I felt as a kid.
As a kid i never caught this but I weirdly identified with it in a way a couldn’t explain until now. Kind of crazy having me think back to this movie in a completely different light than I had as a kid
Jerry Stiller aka Frank Constanza happens to be Jewish. Now I'm starting to wonder what Uncle Max hosting a Festivus would be like. I bet you his "airing of grievances" for Timon will be lengthy.
As this is my first video of yours I saw the thumbnail and thought "oh dear this can only go two ways I hope it's the first reasonable one" I'm glad to see it was the third option of mental break down
Can you talk about The Lion Guard, next? I think Kion and the rest of his Lion Guard are another example of writers attempting to grapple with the hierarchical structure of the Circle of Life, but despite the main character actively shaking up the status quo, it ultimately reasserts itself by the end of the story. It's a great watch, and I'd like to see some more analysis on it.
I don't think the status quo can ever be truly undermined in the allegory vs animals as people. As humans, while we are mammals, our existence relies on a position to observe the natural ways of life around us and nurture in exchange for survival and thriving as a species ourselves. since the lions are still animals, in comparison to the other animals in the pride land, it will always be a mucky metaphor. I think as a kid my favourite part of the lion king was that there were no humans and i was able, from a cultural perspective, be okay with the parts that didnt quite equate, because nature and the wild are full of cruel and horrific acts and things that felt unjust- because the cast of the lion king are in fact animals lol
That seems pretty on brand for Disney, they seem to enjoy stories where villains want to change the status quo while heroes carve their own place in it while keeping everything the same. Pop Culture Detective had a pretty good video on this with Marvel.
@@rebeccagibbs4128 Eh, I'd say that the Lion Guard did a pretty decent job of undermining the status quo. The Lion Guard is made up of a group of animals who watch over the Pridelands, and protect all of the animals therein from natural disasters and unnecessary loss of life. Prior to the start of the story, the Lion Guard is generally made up entirely of Lions, and has been since its introduction. The previous Lion Guard was led by Scar, only for them to be disbanded when he "turned evil" and abused the powers he was given as its leader. It's an entire generation before a new Lion Guard is formed, with the son of Simba, Kion, at its head. Kion is tasked with creating a new Lion Guard, and because he lacks the biases of previous generations, he chooses non-Lions for the rest of his team. The team works together extremely well, but circumstances basically force him on a journey away from the Pridelands (so Lion King 2 can happen while he's away). When he returns, he finds that the Pridelands have a new Lion Guard, and it's basically all lions once again. Kion accepts this, transfers power peacefully, and returns to the magical land he found on his journey with the rest of his friends. So despite the amazing shake up in the Lion Guard status quo, eventually, the status quo reasserts itself. Kion's love life is much the same. He makes friends with a female hyena, and the two share a lot of romantic tension/chemistry. However, he ultimately ends up with another female lion he meets at the magical land of his journey's end. And so despite playing around with it, the status quo ultimately reasserts itself right at the tail end of his story. Despite that, it's still a pretty good watch throughout, IMHO.
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois TBH, I don’t care for that reading. The villains aren’t trying to “change” the status quo. They’re trying to destroy it…along with everything and everyone else for the sake of their personal gain. That’s what makes them the bad guys.
The Lion Guard always made me insanely mad for whatever reason. I left feeling bad for Kion during multiple points because similar to Sofia the First, Kion gets a LOT of responsibilities for a child to handle when he never even asked for it, constantly putting his life on the line and even having to face Scar at one point, except he can literally burn Kion alive. Isn't defending the Pride Lands and solving conflicts between the subjects of the Pride Lands supposed to be the KING of the Pride Lands' job? What is Simba doing as king if not that? "The Lion Guard has always been made up of lions!" Well with you being the only male of the pride and Kiara, Zuri and Tifu being BEYOND incapable, who else do you expect your child to pick besides his best friends? Not to mention him arguing with Bunga, a child, and causing a cave-in. "Well, you caused cave-in too!" Grow up. I remember the episode where Kion nearly kills his mother after losing control of The Roar. Of course Kion is stressed out after this ensues and tells Nala that he doesn't want to use the roar anymore in fear of hurting those he loves. Nala basically tells him "The roar is part of who you are, you can't stop using it" which I found a bit fucked up. Another thing that bugged me was how EVERY pre-existing character from the movies besides Timon and Pumba (The childish-humored comic reliefs) and Nuka and Kovu (who get like two minutes of screen time throughout the entire series) are written DRASTICALLY different than how they appear in the movies. Like how can you get Kiara wrong? You people do realize making Kiara snobby and bossy and overall the opposite of who she is invalidates the reason Kovu fell for her and decided NOT to kill her father, right? I like how previous kings and Lion Guard leaders show up to lend Kion advice (again, similar to Sofia the First) but Mufasa's advice kinda seems like the same thing just repackaged. "Believe in yourself, don't lose control of the roar" ok, but how do I defeat your brother? Kion x Rani is the worst. She only shows Kion decency when she realizes how powerful The Roar is. "Now I know why the previous queen was so excited to have The Roar back at the Tree of Life, perhaps it should stay around?" Sorry for the essay but I had to get this off my back lol. The Lion Guard is an enjoyable series but it dropped the ball on a lot of things I feel. It would've been better if it took place after The Lion King ll, but I assume the reason it didn't is because that movie is "not popular" which is bull and could've easily been worked around. I love over analyzing kids shows lol.
I'm not Jewish, nor did I grow up near any Jewish community, yet I still remember thinking Timon was Jewish pretty early in my life because of his name and the way he spoke just like Jewish comedians on TV.
The fact that Julie Kanver and Jerry Stiller, who play Timon's mother and Uncle Max also happen to be Jewish is just as ironic. Heck, Stiller was also Frank Constanza. Now I want to think about him hosting a Festivus Uncle Max: Welcome, newcomers. The tradition of Festivus begins with the airing of grievances. I GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH YOU ALL! AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ABOUT IT! YOU PUMBAA! MY NEPHEW SAYS YOUR GAS PASSING KILLS THE WILDLIFE! (Pumbaa turns to Timon.) Timon: Oh God.... Uncle Max: (To Timon) Quiet, you'll get yours in a minute. (Looks to Pumbaa again) PUMBAA, YOU COULDN'T KEEP IT IN YA PASSED BY A FEMALE WARTHHOG GIVIN' YA-(Stops to think for a second.) I lost my train of thought.
This violence inherent in analysis you spoke about in the second half reminds me of how much I hated to interpret poems in school, because I would always read the 'wrong' thing into it.
Remind me of a time a teacher was trying to get the "right" answer out of me about an (animal) character in a book who's teeth were described as not worn out at all, despite his old age. And I was like "He doesn't get to use them very often?" because that seemed the most logical conclusion. And she was like "wrong, he's still dangerous". And me: Ikd, if his teeth are in perfect condition on death door, he clearly never used them to kill, much less to fight.
Everyone always forgets to include 1/2 in their "circle of life bad" hot takes even though it's the movie that becomes the most interesting when viewed through that lense. Great job.
Hermeneutic circling! So that's what my re-reading of novels is all about. Now I know why I love picking up subtle hints that the complicated, misunderstood characters aren't all bad; and then going back to understand how come the main character was so deceived in them while learning about myself as a reader.
God this videos fucking good. “The moment we exile minority representation to the narrow margins of “good optics”, so to do we restrict minority artists ability to tell their own stories.” That particularly hit me. In the age of the internet it seems like paranoid readings of popular works is the most common, or at least the loudest kind of interpretation. I wish discursive spaces left more room open for finding the potential for positive readings, or at least nuanced readings, to exist alongside or even *inside* interpretations of things as problematic.
The way this video gut punched me, kicked me on the floor, helped me up, dusted my off my shoulders then whispers in my ear “I’m sorry, let’s get ice cream” Is how you earned a subscriber today
I got a lot of respect for the person who made this video just because of their ability to re-assess their thoughts, perspective and try to figure out reality without doubling down just not to be wrong. It was also just oddly compelling to watch and see to the end.
We should just collectively stop trying to use animals as a shorthand for social problems because it dismisses way too much nuance and almost always leads into the notion that things are the way that they are for a reason. Edit: Okay, I made a blanket statement. I don't mean Allegories in general shouldn't be used to tell stories. They're great shorthands for getting across certain ideas. I should specify that I do not like using Animals for Racial issues because the comparison gets real murky real quickly if you stop to think for more than a minute.
And like What if there were humans in the Lion King? What social group are they supposed to metaphorically represent? We are not gods separate from the forces of nature, but animals as well.
Yeah, and it always becomes a problem because of our inherent bias towards certain species, like whichever racial group (or other societal group) becomes analogous for rats (or any other gross animals) are always going to be rightfully upset
Exactly, it's the same thing that bugs me about using superheroes as a shorthand for minorities or a story about witch hunts in a world where witches are real, because it takes away from any anti-bias message when "the other", instead of being a human like ourselves, is either literally a different species and/or has a bunch of unnatural powers.
So are we just tossing out the concept of a fable here? Because fables are stories about animals aiming to teach a moral, which would mean adressing some sort of social issue. Just because some people don’t know how to write allegory doesn’t mean we completely abandon allegory as a narrative device.
42:35 I actually wrote my first poem/song about Flower's death at the time... "Flower was the best meerkat / She was the greatest meerkat / Flower died bravely, defending her pups/ From a hooded cobra, a deadly snake"
This video kind of reminded me of the discourse in the RPG community around fantasy races and concepts around them. How there was discussions around using "savage" and "tribal" signifiers around the races literally marked as "always evil" and stuff like that. And the common pushback from the counter side saying "If you see Black people when you get shown an Orc, that seems like YOU being racist". And of course if devolved into a lot of incoherent screaming. And it, similarly to the Lion King situation, had the big hang up of "But these aren't all the same people, they are LITERALLY physically different. They have LITERAL biological variance to a degree that is irreconcilable." And at the end of the day you both have to do your best to not hit the most flagrant pitfalls or exploit it in harmful ways as well as not get too hung up on the minutia and embrace the fun as it was intended.
The funny thing is, Orcs ARE based on a real life culture in their earlier depictions: It's the Mongols. Orcs are a usually nomadic people (usually from the east, even) who raid the settled folk and work on the basis of rule of the strongest. They're a 'rampaging horde', which is the view a lot of people have of the steppe empires. Everything from early days Warhammer to Elder Scrolls portrays them as wearing mongol-adjacent clothing and armour. Elder Scrolls still keeps that a bit with Orcs having a lot of Steppe-inspired haircuts, although that's basically the only Mongol-esque thing left about them - few things portray orcs as mongols these days. I guess more recently the people of Ukraine have started referring to Russians as 'orcs' which is harkening back to that vision a little. But for some reason, nobody looks at Orcs and sees Mongols, or steppe peoples in general. Racists see black people and everyone else sees British football hooligans if they're even still doing the 'savage rampaging horde' thing, which a lot of orcs today don't; and as we all know, British football hooligans are in fact an always evil race. Nobody tell the wider community that since the 00's at least, racists have been seeing insectoid races as being analogous to the Chinese, or east asians in general. I'd hate to lose them because of The Discourse™. MYFAROG is right there guys, has been for a decade; racists have and will always see them this way no matter what you do.
@pretentiouselizabeth8027 the whole Mongol/Orc and Insect/Chinese thing goes further back. Tolkien and Heinlein said as much. But the Mongol thing has been increasingly replaced a lot by "Dark Continent" style signifiers. Shrunken heads, totem masks, and that sort of stuff. But it's also in how races get stuffed into a monoculture with no variation that causes the problem. Even the Football Hooligan variety. And as much as racists will find ways to see their worldview in stuff, it is good to not make it easy on 'em.
@@legateelizabeth If you look at the original source for the orcs, the lord of the rings, while there are some similarities to the mongols, there's also differences mainly that orcs are evil and corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron, and fill the role as cannon fodder for the dark lord in the story. The origins and what happens to the orcs were actually more or less unresolved by Tolkien, and he changed his mind about where they came from multiple times. It's also worth noting that in WW1 a lot of British and later American propaganda described the Germans as Hun's from the East, and Tolkien did fight in WW1 so that could have impacted some of the similiarites, although there is no link between the German empire and the Mongols. As far as I've seen "russian orcs" has only been used in relation to the russian's invading Ukraine or who support the invasion, not Russian people more broadly, and apart from both being East of some of the countries they invaded there aren't direct links between the mongol empire and the current Russian empire
@@雷-t3j The link between the Germans and the Mongols is that germanic tribes were recruited by the Huns against Rome, and the Huns were a Turkic majority steppe horse-raid people like the Mongols. The Mongol Empire also quite famously invaded and occupied what is now today's Russia, and Ivan III breaking away from it laying the foundations of Russia.
I hate the idea that "if you see Black people when you see orks, YOU'RE the racist" when historical media analysis of media made by white people shows a clear pattern of Black men specifically being shown as "brutish thugs that live in gangs/tribes". Like, if that description doesn't scream "ork" to you, idk what to tell you, but racist propaganda has a long history that is easy to find, and pointing these things out isn't f-ing racism jfc
This was such an interesting watch for me, because being blindsided with the statement that "The Lion King is a white supremacist, fascist narrative" was. Wild, to say the least. In multiple ways! Simultaneously I was going "wait ok what the hell kind of read is this for a massively well-known kid's movie, to sit in ur adult chair and go 'its actually a glorification of fascistic rhetoric' toward a film for 7 year olds about lions" and, also, "shit, that isnt an invalid read of the text. have i been holding this up as a good film in my mind and unthinkingly dignifying propaganda?" The ultimate point here about paranoid readings was a rlly good way to put words to a feeling I have sometimes that leftists are very, very prone to looking at fiction in a way where we WANT to find the bad messages, WANT to read the worst into a story, because it makes us feel like we're consuming media the Right Way and like we arent susceptible to bad rhetoric or to liking bad things. We spot the problematic aspects and can label that art as Bad Art, and walk away feeling good about that. But like...as u say labelling a story like that in one rigid way completely denies us any other more positive reads and removes opportunities to find wonderful, uplifting reads of narratives because we're really busy always trying to find out Whether This Art Has Objectively Problematic Ideas To Warn People About. And this isnt to say that talking about possible bad messaging is a bad thing! The writer of 1 1/2 saying he didnt intend for Jewish subtext, for all his claims, still probably should have conceded that, in some sense, he still wrote a Jewish movie. We can put all kinds of unintended possible subtext into stories we write because symbols and context and literal plot elements interact in big complex messy ways that can signify one meaning for one person and a MASSIVELY different meaning for another. The way all these moving parts come together, its VERY easy for the well-meaning writer wanting to tell a funny animal story to Do A Eugenics without ever having that idea in their mind. It's incredibly important to, as u say, engage with fiction with multiple approaches, to be open to changing how we look at media and not approaching everything with the same mindset so we don't box ourselves into tiny, narrow ideas of art. So...yeah, very cool video? sorry for the dissertation length comment just to say that bgsfhnjd
I don't think there is a single unproblematic Disney movie. That's a natural result of the period and people who made them (white middle aged dudes) and a reductive stories trying to delineate clear good vs evil Christian outlook, juxtaposed on the real society that will always produce "some people are inherently bad" narrative.
Also (and forgive me if this was mentioned in the vid), but wasn't Hamlet a major inspiration for the Lion King in general? Given that Hamlet takes place within the context of a human kingdom, the writers' attempts to shoehorn that story into the animal kingdom on the premise that the lion is the "king" would naturally produce elements that contradict zoological reality
L...Lindsay? Lindsay Ellis? My hero Lindsay Ellis saW MY VIDEO? UM UH OH GOD UH HI HELLO WHAT DO I SAY UH...OH GOSH UM THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING! Hope you're doing well!
...Also, now I'm super curious about those mixed feelings lol! If something about the video left a bad taste in your mouth (and you have the time to share), I'd love to hear your notes. Cheers!
@@The_Sin_Squad well to be honest it was the part about paranoid reading, it put words to a phenom that I have first hand experienced, and at the same time kind of reinforced why I couldn't do this anymore --I think it is true that there is validity to understanding how marginalization creates paranoid reading, but I just don't have it in me to be sympathetic anymore. Paranoid reading quite literally ruined my life, and the reality is now i can't approach these topics with the kind of empathy and impartiality that you did. Anyway, great video, you're a super talented editor!
@@LindsayEllisVids Oh my gosh, thank you so much for the reply! To be honest, a lot of this video became like...an attempt to process my own turmoil over the time I was dogpiled over a paranoid reading (I wrote sfw omegaverse with characters of color and was accused of racism, transphobia and homophobia re: "ascribing animalistic characteristics to POC.") That NBC article where you talked about the trauma of your cancelation put me on the path towards recognizing and accepting my own trauma-so thank you so much for that vital commentary. It really messes with your ability to trust people, to watch friends turn on you over the most bad faith, paranoid takes. And these days a large group of consumers seem...way too happy to leverage their marginalization as a cudgel to try and control, shame, and otherwise harm creators. I'd hoped to untangle my thoughts with this video, but I still find myself torn. It's hard to justify one's existence as an over-analyzer by trade, when over-analyzing has itself become a weapon against marginalized creators, y'know? It means so much that you took the time (and the risk) to reply so honestly, and I want to send you all my well-wishes. It makes perfect sense to like, not want to extend a sympathetic hand to people who may very well take your words and twist them up to make you look like a supervillain. I'm so sorry for what people put you through. The blame lies squarely on the people who misappropriated progressive language to make their paranoid takes sound like activism. They preached accountability, yet they ruined your life and got off scot-free-some were even rewarded for their abuse. I know this trauma doesn't "go away" with time-does closure even exist for this kind of thing?-but I hope the past few years have brought you some amount of peace. Last but definitely not least, OH MY GOSH LINDSAY ELLIS CALLED ME A SUPER TALENTED EDITOR AAAAAAAFDJSAKLF THANK YOU SO MUCH! AAAAAAAAA! Have a great one!
Oh wow, the chick who gargles ContraPoints balls takes a media analysis video about Judaism and makes it about her getting bullied on Twitter. Lindsay, go take care of your kid and recommit to going away.
Ngl, you had me a little concerned in the first half. Lol but I trusted you to get around to pulling the metaphor apart. I love seeing different interpretations of text, you’re explanation of the “context” to “text” to back to “context” circle was actually a bit of a lightbulb moment for me. And I love how it kind of just distills how our views of text can change over time or even change us. That’s legit so cool. Interpretations of the Lion King have always kind of sat wrong with me, because while I definitely see this reading and think there’s plenty of validity to it, it also always felt like it was, as you said, cherry-picking to make the metaphor work. And more importantly, is laying the blame on the Lion King for the sins of it’s fathers: Fantasy and even more specifically, Animal Fantasy as a genre. Animal Fantasy from it’s inception has always had this troubling relationship with glorifying a myriad of problematic themes like Class/Race superiority, eugenics, fascism, ect ect ect. Sometimes this is done with explicit intent, but a lot of times, like in the case of the Lion King trilogy, it’s just a carryover byproduct of using similar tropes and themes from the genre without considering it’s implications on our real world social systems. And don’t get me wrong, I understand WHY The Lion King is under more scrutiny then the rest of the genre as a whole. Everyone knows The Lion King. Not everyone knows even the more “famous” (for it’s genre) Watership Down. Thus it’s deserving of more scrutiny by default. But as someone who loves animals and fantasy, AND also loves turning the text around in my head like a pretty little gemstone, this kind of pitfall with “analyzing into the ground” almost always happens. Especially due to how animal stories often sit on a weird in-between of fable and metaphor: not meant to take the metaphor too literally, but has stronger implications than your generic fable. It’s a tough nut to crack, tbh, and I think it’s part of what people don’t like about the genre as a whole, because while animal stories make for great fables, things get messy really fast when you make them analogous to people. Damn, this has given me some food for thought, and I could keep talking and turning this video over like the above mentioned pretty stone lol but I’ll stop here. Another great video, Rab!
This reminds me of that time I read a certain comic where the main character had the trait of being the unluckiest boy alive, in a how has he not been exploded to death by a random meteor hitting the dynamite factory that his school was visiting kind of way. Now there is nothing supernatural about this he is just really unlucky and for me it always felt like he was disabled. He had to make accomodations for his unluckiness and the people around him helped to make it work. Anyway there was an Arc of the comic with a school excursion and it was mainly about his fears of ruining the trip with his unluckiness and how the friends are suffering because of the accomodations they have to make for him and that just kind of hit me. The Comic has over 200 chapter I read around 100 chapters and its an easy 4/10, but that one arc specifically spoke to me in a way the author maybe didn't even intend.
I love the ethics crisis the video has at the end- reminds me of my video essay consumption in high school and how I was sure of nothing by the end and confused about whether or not having an interpretation was reductive- 10/10 so interesting to listen to over cereal at noon.
I love this video so much. This is comparable to high level university courses in terms of analysis and research. I miss college for the way it delved into topics like this and I really appreciate the video essay. It important to consider how internal biases impact everything, even when it’s a kids movie most wouldn’t think twice about.
I'm commenting mostly to say that the joke diagram you drew on the digital coloring book canvas at the end is actually the most poignant piece of modern art I've seen in a long time and I am not joking. I could write an essay on it, it perfectly encapsulates the feeling of inherent absurdity to over-analyzing a children's property, especially one as commercialized as The Lion King. If I could I would buy it and frame it. I would also love to say that I love this video. Clicked on it thinking, "How in the hell is a video like this an hour long and not say 15 minutes?" And I was delighted by how this was different from other video essays that might pose the analysis you did and then at the end say, 'well yeah that's one interpretation", because you then analyzed that instinct in the first place. It opened my eyes to a lot of terms and ideas I've always thought of when listening to an overly paranoid analysis of something like a kid's film or fable - from youtubers and my own family as a POC. Where it's not that there isn't something to be analyzed both on the film's terms and outside itself, but after some time you are just a bad faith reader. The way that hit me also adds to why that accidental modern art masterpiece you created is hitting so hard.
That agonized "FLOWER NOOO" at @42:45 had me cackling and wheezing oh my GOD. As a fellow mal-adjusted preteen who also followed Meerkat Manor, this whole bit felt like someone walking over my grave LOL
This was an immensely informative vidéo, and your style made for a absolutely delightful watching experience. I had never heard of the term "paranoid reading", but it has given me immense amounts of peace to finally have word to a phenomenon I've noticed in myself time and time again. I'm glad the algorithm favoured your video! I wish you nothing but the best of luck with your future video essay endeavours.
My favourite recovering Sherlock and Voltron survivor, you've done it again. Another banger. Amazingly well edited, especially considering this hellsite's copyright orbital laser beam. As well as teaching me 4 new things I never knew and will carry with me through every text I will ever read now. A wonder and a marvel. Excuse me, I need to send a certain snippet to every Tom I know.
very interesting analysis! fully agree with what you're saying. In my culture, Māori, the indigenous culture of Aotearoa, the themes of the lion king work more in line with kaitiakitanga, or stewards of the land, who's responsibilities lie in keeping a balance with the natural world as we would keep a spiritual, physical, and emotional balance. as a kid i saw the ruin of the pride lands resulting more from a powerful leader (scar) abusing the environment, and restricting the autonomy of others to restore or care for it, by allowing the entire hyena population to have free range on the pride lands, resulting in the destruction of the land and the reduced quality of life for everyone in the pridelands- rather than "chosen one must be restored to power" i think with such a strong film around the themes of finding your path, balance responsibilities with self discovery, that the lion king will always be applicable to many different way of being and believing in this world. also, the te reo Māori version of the lion king elevates it so much and is, in my opinion, a better dub than the original!
The lion king was always my favorite Disney movie but I found it hard to let myself enjoy it once I got older. Since I'm white in America it feels shameful to enjoy the white supremacist narrative I in real life benefit from. I'm so overjoyed to learn that the heart of the film is enriched and even changed when viewed through the lens of your perspective. Not because it allows me personally to enjoy a guilty pleasure, since I'll never watch the lion king quite like you can, but because such a visually gorgeous and emotionally potent movie CAN be watched without white supremacy sullying it.
What you said about paranoid readings really hit deep, given that I saw the thumbnail for this video in my recommendations and immediately went into defence mode. My stomach dropped and I wondered what I'd done to get antisemitic content on my front page. Then I decided to actually watch the video before passing judgment and discovered a brilliant, hilarious analysis of one of my favourite movies from my childhood that taught me a little bit more about approaching media with checked baggage! Fantastic job, subscribed and eager to watch the rest of your content!
I don't know why I am thinking about the tunnel song right now. "Dig a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel Dig a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel When it's done, you dig a bigger tunnel! Dig, a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel Dig a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel Quick, before the hyenas come!"
Well, why was Timone a meerkat in the first place? Simple. The design team created a dynamic duo where one character did most of the talking and became the center of nearly every scene he was in, where the other character mostly kept to the background, yet was pretty insightful when he chose to speak. Then the team balanced these personalities by giving Timone a small, agile form and Pumba a more physically inposing presence. This dynamic is endlessly entertaining, and shows off both the greatest strengths and weaknesses of animal characters. When designing a character in an animal based world, you end up picking animals that line up with your character's traits. Do you have a quick and clever protagonist? How about making them a fox? A fierce warrior? Try a tiger. A sweet girl usually becomes a rabbit. Just like all character design, a well-chosen animal become a short-hand way for the writer to communicate a character's personality traits and, to an extent, their role in the story. Some drawbacks of this method, as we see quite heavily in the Lion King sequels, is that family members have to all be one kind of animal. This forces a lot of characters into animals that don't exactly suit them the same way. Take Scar, for example. If he didn't have to be a lion because his family were lions, he might have been a viper, which would have matched the green aesthetic a lot better. Tldr, the creators of the film decided to make the kings lions because their story had kings in it and lions fit the part. If the Lion King was a real world, then yes, it would be a strict species based hierarchy. But, because he's a tailor-made fictional character, Simba's species was dictated by his role.
Strangely enough, I actually recall hearing that Scar wasn't a lion in earlier drafts. Guess somewhere in production the filmmakers decided they wanted to make him an Evil Uncle character, which meant he had to be another lion.
I think that this line of thinking extrapolates in opposition of the fascist and biological racism critiques (which are still very much valid mind you). The lions are at the top of the circle of life, and they are at the top because they're lions. They're at the top because, in the real world, lions are apex predators. They're also at the top because they're kings and Disney fairy tales are often about royalty and medieval-renaissance era depictions of heroes or monarchy. Lions themselves are also traditional depictions of or symbols for royalty in the western world. Lots of other decisions are like this too. The lions have dominion over the rest of the animals, which can be interpreted as biologically justified racism, but it can also be interpreted as mere retrofitting, where the story is about savanna animals, anthropomorphized, and the resonance between the two doesn't map 1:1 and the most objectionable elements of the humanizing are merely by products of the incongruities of humans and animals. Human races aren't literally different species, but it intuitively makes sense to depict the different species as different races (they're visually separable, they would necessarily have their own distinct communities and cultures, biological families would be mono-species etc) The hyenas are similar. All of the criticism directed at them for being a racist caricature of american black people is correct. But there's also the more superficial aspect to their existence. Hyenas exist, they're (literal) opportunistic scavengers, when we anthropomorphize these qualities we moralize them negatively, so they make sense resonantly as the villains, or at least malignant henchmen. I think the two biggest questions are "how much does The Lion King read as a tacit endorsement of fascism versus an incidental depiction of fascism caused by allegorical imperfection?" and "regardless of the answer to the former, does it have real tangible power to stoke fascist sentiment in its viewers?".
@@tinfoilslacks3750 A third question would be, "Could you design anthropomorphic characters that don't, intentionally or unintentionally, fall into racial catagories?" And with that in mind, "Should we do it intentionally to stay on top of the narrative, or simply use the character's personality traits to dictate the animal they're portrayed as?"
@@allnonethevoid1487if you look at Timon and see a Jew or any other ethnicity or race in an animated character for that matter that says more about you than the character...he's just a funny African rat that's all....seek therapy.
Jesus Christ how did you people survive adolescence?!? Timon and Pumba are a classic comedy trope of a straight man and a dimwit comic relief. It's a technic in Comedy that stretches back to Vaudeville all the way to our current day. Like Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, David Spade and Chris Farley, The Rock and Chris Hart!! Timon is the Straight guy and Pumba is the Dimwit. All that crap you just spat out is BS. Stop overanalyzing stuff that's how people have Strokes. It's just Comedy retards laugh laugh LAUGH!!!!!
I often listen to your Great Gatsby essay and your "Is Voltron Still Bad?" essay when I'm feeling stressed because I find your manner of analysis both really engaging and really soothing, so to say I was thrilled when you uploaded a new critique video would be an UNDERSTATEMENT
You're not the first essayist that killed this series for me but it always hurts. Feels like a knive in my childhood joy around The Lion King. Guess as a young black kid watching the movie. It made me felt seen. I could understand Simba's pain and grief his desire to just run away from his history. Seeking out found family. Grappling with the pain of making massive mistakes. This was the only movie that I grow up with that made Africa and it's wildlife seem beautiful. Especially in a world that treats Africans stories like a afterthought.
Shouldn't let someone's hot take and interpretation ruin something for you. If they see the animals as representations of others races and cultures that's on them.
I've yet to see a film analysis that looks at _The Lion King_ from black/African perspective and it's sorely needed. Not necessarily to redeem it from any of the other valid critiques that exist (this one included) but as you said, it's a story based in Africa and basically was *THE* black/African story (at least in popular Western culture) at least until _Black Panther._
@@poppyraima5342 from a non-American perspective it was SO weird to see Lion King the musical as a black culture celebration because none of it read as black to me my whole life (except maybe Rafiki), the voices and the narrative structure about a royal family felt entirely Eurocentric and specifically British, if anything.
Hello there! I'm black and african as well, and although I wasn't particularly into the lion king as a kid, I understand how you feel. I have plenty of shows and movies that I am a big fan of that have pretty disturbing messages or even downright offensive imagery, but they also have some good in them. Look, what you got from the movie is totally ok. that's the thing about art, you're allowed to interpret it how you feel and if it particularly speaks to you that's fine. You're allowed to resonate with the story while ackonwledging that some other aspects may not be as savoury when put it into certain context. You can't grew up in a pigstail and not be covered in mud ever, all american media is colored by their cultural context that include the good and the bad. So the white supremacy that still influences American society to this day, will inevitable impact their media in one way or another. That doesn't mean you can't feel seen in any of the narratives they produce. Plus you can honestly dig up a unsavory interpretation of pretty much everything. All that matters is to keep an open mind.
But we can still enjoy the lion king franchise while acknowledging all that was wrong with it. At least within reason, we can take whatever we’re looking for from a comforting piece of media, as long as we can recognise the issues with it on a higher scale. Especially cause these are family movies. Sometimes it’s good and important to make an analysis like this, and sometimes it’s good and important to sit down and enjoy something you loved when you were younger
Haven't gone through the entire video yet (obviously, it's only been out for like ten minutes), but I just have to say that I love your ability to make me look at the films I loved as a child in totally new and transformative ways. While some things definitely can't be unseen or unheard, I don't think that's a bad thing. Sure, to some extend you "ruin" my childhood films, but then, I'm not a child anymore. All these new perspectives and ways of seeing the media I consume really give additional value to these films. They helped form my childhood, and now, through showing a different perspective, you are helping them form my adulthood, too. You have a real talent for this. Thanks for all the work you put it, I hope you continue for a long while to come! Edit: Finished the video, and I do still stand by my point. Paranoid reading is definitely something I've done, and I didn’t even realize until you talked about it and I thought back to some of my own interpretations of certain media. That's definitely something I'm going to keep an eye on. So, yeah, thanks for pointing out!
"we can't digest grass we're grass intolerant" 13:25 can't believe you missed the obvious reference to how almost all of us jewish folk cant handle milk :,D
@@thegnarledpirate9198 ironically yeah its genetics. has to due with how people in regions dependent on milk would end up either dying or slowly losing lactose intolerant genes across generations, and on the other side people in regions without as much a need of milk wont be as dependent and so by chance after generations the genes for it spread.
I loved the video, I loved the little bits of chaos bopped throughout, and as I was watching this lovely analysis, I though - man, this is valid af, but also - it'd be hard (and possibly make for a worse story) to have animals break through the mold/change class etc etc. And thought about my role as a creator and figured - damn, sometimes u just gotta close your brain and write stories, otherwise - you wouldn't get nothing done. And then you did the whole paranoid reading segment, which I did not expect, but greatly appreciated. I know you know that the concept's existence doesn't mean that the paranoid reading in question is invalid - just that this isn't the only "valid" one. Either way - I appreciate you letting other people know. A+
This comment really resonated with me, because I often struggle with that balance as a writer, where like…obviously you want to make an effort to be conscious of problematic tropes, but if you try to avoid every possible negative interpretation, all your characters become cardboard cutouts and your plot becomes a sort of meadow desktop background. I wish there was a perfect answer, or a guideline sheet I could follow to make sure my art won’t harm anyone-but I’ve really come to believe that’s not possible. I agree that sometimes you really do just have to turn that side of your brain off and write the dang story.
@@The_Sin_Squad I fully agree, approaching this from the perspective of being queer, even the stereotypes can be fun and worthwhile characters, because people *do* fit many of these stereotypes. Scar is unbelievably camp, he's gay coded to a degree that few characters are, but you can also find real people who really are that camp. Trying to avoid any and all stereotypical depictions leads to a flattening and deadening of the cultures and people being represented, and erasure and tacit admonishing of the people who really do look and act in those ways. At the same time, maybe don't only ever make the villain the super camp one, or have the camp heroic character (let's be honest, the comedy relief sidekick) be ineffectual. edit: (then I watched the end of the video and realized that the video touches on this very line of thought, oops!)
As someone just barely into my first few weeks of uni, this video analysis is showing me a terrifying premonition on what spirals of metaphysical madness lie in store for me should I follow that siren song of intellectual curiosity off the edge of the map. I salute you with profound admiration and pay my deepest respect to the hours of your sanity sacrificed in the name of academic principles.
I always saw this movie as one of the good direct-to-dvd Disney sequels. But given the context and the allegories between Jewish experiences in real life and Timon's arc in the film, I can see now that this may be one of the most highly underrated Disney films that isn't part of the main animated movie catalogue.
sure is convenient that Israel - you know, the actual example of racial supremacy, hierarchy, promised lands, ethnic pride, and paranoia - is left out of the conversation. Sin Squad can point fingers at others but conveniently absolves her own of fault.
42:32 This whole video is spectacular and an amazing video essay on not only the Lion King but just what it means to interpret media, but this bit is my favourite part just on the basis that it had me in stitches. Gotta say I LOVE your editing too. No wonder this video took so long.
I have just looked up when Lion King II came out. I was 6 in 1998. I distinctly remember the line 'It's in your blood' making me immensely uncomfortable the first time I heard it... flying in the face of the way I had been taught to view the world. I was *6*!
Unless the meerkats do it then its fine. Its fine they get there own ethno-state and they're entitled to their own promised land (regardless of whoever may already be there) - hmmm....
This video has reminded me why we need other people in our lives; They challenge our perspectives and give different thoughts that we may not think of.
I think there's some things you discount in your analysis. The first is that Tim Rice, the lyricist for the original movie, has explicitly talked about how they are meant to be interpreted. "Circle of Life" is about "generations passing on the flame, one generation dying out and a new one taking over, and animals eating each other". In this interpretation, the "Circle of Life" isn't a cycle of oppression, but a generational cycle in which the failings of one generation must be addressed by the next. Mufasa neglected to deal with Scar and the hyenas, and then Scar destroys the pride lands, and it's up to Simba and his allies to correct those mistakes. I also think you fall into the common ideological trap of ascribing literal and complicated systems of interaction to films that aren't meant to convey a message about the concepts you're addressing. This is the same reason a lot of people criticized the ending of *Steven Universe* for "redeeming space Hitlers" (i.e. letting the Diamonds get away with genocide). People assume that the exact, literal context of a piece of media, the systems demonstrated in it and the actions taken in it, are meant to be a rule of thumb for identical situations, when in reality the actual purpose of most media (but children's media in particular) is to convey an overarching *lesson* or *moral* on the individuals consuming it. The point of *Steven Universe* isn't to say that "if someone commits literal genocide, they should be forgiven", it's a story about accepting oneself, navigating that acceptance in the context of familial relationships, healing broken families, and escaping the cycle of abuse. Yet people still think that Steven should have executed the Diamonds on national TV because "they're literally space Hitlers". Your analysis, I feel, steps dangerously close to a similar sentiment. The purpose of the Lion King is not to say that "this is how real nature works", or "this is the ideal social structure", it's to create a world in which the main moral lesson of the story and the characters' journey can be taught, while keeping audiences engaged in learning that moral lesson. In the case of the Lion King, the purpose of the film is (as the creators of the film have said) to demonstrate that no matter what you think of an individual or how they appear, everyone is valuable to society. It's also about fulfilling ones duties and responsibilities to society (as indicated by Simba's character arc). There are certainly things to criticize about some of the films messaging, and it's perfectly fine to disagree with the way in which it presents that messaging. But you're pulling out an encyclopedia to critique every minute detail of the world in which the story of the Lion King is told, when realistically any critical analyst of media or fiction must indulge in a modicum of suspension of disbelief in order to effectively engage with a work.
I don’t know about that. It seemed to me that Scar’s rise to power was a derailment of the circle of life, which Simba restored by taking his rightful place. You can say that the focus of the movie is the injustice and conflict between Scar and Simba, not on preaching natural hierarchy, but it still does preach natural hierarchy, and you can’t just dismiss that. Plus, if the creators intended to show that everyone is important in the circle of life, then they did a pretty poor job including the hyenas, poor low-life outcasts who can only endanger the system and must be controlled. What Lion King is good at is telling a narrative of natural hierarchy by comparing social groups to animals.
@@ernestwinston8851 There's a time and a place for "Death of the Author" analysis but flagrantly discounting their intentions has never been what that literary analysis technique has been meant for. I find it more useful as a way of indicating how well a piece of media does in actually conveying a message the author claims it does. Case in point is literally everything J.K. Rowling has said about Harry Potter in the past decade. She CLAIMS the series carries an inherently anti-racist, anti-fascist message, but there are such a huge number of elements that contradict those themes that it makes what the author's intent was irrelevant. On the flip side, you can't apply the same logic to, for example, the works of H.P. Lovecraft. You can't claim that Lovecraft's intent behind his stories was "irrelevant" to the context of his stories, because many of them are overtly racist and MUST be analyzed in that context.
Yeah, but... you deal with that family and community survival stuff by hanging the space Nazis, because ideally space Hitler did the job for you and heroically broke into the space bunker to kill space Hitler and his space wife. You heal with your loved ones by enacting unfeeling iron justice on the top of a pyramid. You only destroy vacuous Jorbson Lobsterson hierarchies by guillotining the tops of the pyramids and making the cowardly middle aware of being spared. Bismuth was always right. The Breaking Point was Madame Guillotine, and always should have been a mass-produced peasant weapon that could slay false gods.
I love that you touch on the heurmanutical circle! It’s a way of thinking about how we engage with any piece of media. And while the words to express it might ask a lot of the reader, we do this instinctually whenever we relate ourselves to a narrative. It’s all about how many times we go around the circle and how deep we go each time.
I haven’t watched the video yet but I do have a weird memory with this movie. The first time I stayed up all night as a kid I was afraid to wake my family up getting movies so I just watched this movie like 8 times in a row. Im sure I’ll love the video
this is the best video essay ever. as I realized it was over I was practically trying to reach through the screen begging you not to go as I felt unresolved and spun around the cycle as you intended. extremely immersive experience 10/10.
this is honestly funny as fuck and it's incredibly thought provoking and it's making me rethink more movies now which is really fun. Thank you for making this.
This is literally what I come to UA-cam for. Seeing beloved media re-evaluated through a new (to me) lens, giving me a new understanding of other people’s experiences.
holy shit that Paranoid reading part was so interesting! I definitely see that in fandom. Reminds me of Sarah Schulman's Conflict Is Not Abuse -book. It's not about media but like society, community and collective trauma
this is genuinely one of the most interesting youtube essays i’ve ever watched 😭 usually i just have them on in the background while i draw, but i found myself stopping to listen way more than i usually would - really great job!!!
I know you've been working on this one for...over a year? I feel like that's right? Congrats on seeing it uploaded. Two words to describe this video: pondering and laughing; your editing skills keep getting better. Despite growing up in a pretty non religious household my dad always made time to teach me things about Judaism, especially around Hanukkah. Any time I had questions he was always receptive too. Yiddish lexicon was freely used around our household and my paternal grandma was definitely a Yiddishie mama. The fact that I never looked at this film with a Jewish lens...wow. Lots "oh huh, okay, that tracks" and "...ohh, yikes". Side question: what did that mug taste like lol? I feel like I've only seen ONE person take up their pencil and try to make a non-monarchical lion king verse post tlk2. It hasn't been fully fleshed out yet, but I can point you in that direction if you're interested. Definitely feel that feel of looking/thinking at a piece of art sometimes and feeling as though you're committing violence against the text. If it gets to that point I usually can separate the art and my feelings/thoughts, but it takes a while. Your professor has me laughing! I'm sorry you had to go through that though. You would think someone could tell you were being a silly-billy, but c'est la vie.
36:00 I never thought of Doodlebob as a comment on how art can say things you don't intend...THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! I HAVE TO REWATCH THE EPISODE WITH THAT IN MIND!!! I used to re-watch Lion King 1 1/2 hundreds of times as a kid, thank you for this new context to put it in.
thank you so much for posting. Don't worry that much about regular updates, you made the long wait totally worth it and it's unreasonable to expect ND creators to be on the top of their game all of the time.
I spent last semester taking a holocaust course, learning a lot about Jewish oppression and the rise of Nazism in Germany and other parts of Europe...and this sorta viewpoint on stuff like the Lion King really clicks with my mind a lot more now. I feel like it's probably just a bad idea in general to use actual animal species as stand-ins for human groups since we know what nature is like in reality: there's a hierarchy to nature, some animals are closer to sapience than others, some need to die for others to thrive, and trying to connect these themes as parallels to human groups is just asking for trouble. I think sort of indirectly tackling these sorts of social and economic problems is far easier to do in fantasy or sci-fi since you can create races or cultures that the audience has no prior knowledge of. It's not fool-proof, but I've seen parallels to human groups done far better in genres like those as opposed to using real animals.
But that’s not what they did. At least, that’s not what they did with the original lion king. In lion king 3, they basically just made the meerkats jewish as a tongue in cheek joke. Compare that to something like zootopia, where the whole thing is a racial allegory with a very clear, applicable message.
I watched 1 1/2 so much as a kid on DVD, it's nice to see it get some attention from video essayists. I also never heard of a paranoid reading before this video, but it seems to explain why people make the analyses they do about certain topics and situations.
I’ve watched this UA-cam video at least three times and every single time I watch it I forget that I’ve watched it. I only realize that I seen it already at the end when it just fall apart into madness. I can’t keep doing this to myself.
this is just amazing. I watch video essays all the time like it's my job and this is one of the best I've EVER seen. I know you struggled LOL but it left me feeling ironically enough a lot better about the way I engage with media. also I don't know why but the "it shook hunk" clip took me OUT
i love the cultural analysis of this video combined with just the sudden whiplash of an absolutely deranged gag at the end of some deeply profound statement. you coloring simba was the exact thing my brain needed after sitting through the past 49 minutes of violent analysis.
I think the drought was more a reference to the old idea that: If the king was right with God the land would prosper, if he wasn’t, the land would wither and die. Scar has gross mismanagement that he wanted over hunting, and over hunted things til it was gone. Not to say all this stuff isn’t also in there and you don’t even have to think about it that hard to see it’s there.
Can't decide if I've just watched a really compelling and thought-provoking video essay or a 53 minute-long mental breakdown.
This is just a joke btw, the answer is of course both.
I suppose you'll just have to watch the video again now that you have seen it once
After engaging the content once, I can say with certainty that some fascinating conclusions can be made that interact with my mental-breakdown-focused sensibilities. Once I've had time to reflect, I hope to engage this content again soon so I can see if any more observations can be made, perhaps in the realm of thought-provoking essay work.
Sometimes, the greatest essays begin as mental breakdowns.
Yes
What's unfortunate is that they did the Meerkats as dirty as they did the Hyenas. Meerkats are aggressive warrior-like little critters that can sleep off snake venom, hunt small lizards and regularly eat venomous insects like scorpions and Millipedes. They defend their burrows fervently and have a strict social hierarchy that isn't even hinted at in any version of the movies all while maintaining tight familial bonds and careful relationships between each other. They're such a complex little species.
And hyenas are incredibly intelligent, couragous, and strong creatures. Honestly they did both animals hella dirty
Ngl im cool with my cute lil Timon on the Roof flick than a realistic depiction
They even did Lions dirty
In nature, Lions aren't this top down hierarchy with the lion at the top and the lionesses and cubs serving him
It's more like he's the bodyguard and "elected sex mayor" of the lionesses who fight off other lions to keep the lioness' cubs alive
The lionesses will help the lion fight off his rival if they like him, but they'll let him get his ass handed to him on his own if they don't
It's a more even relationship between the lionesses and lion(s, sometimes a pride has a couple of lion brothers as the "sex mayors" "elected" by the lionesses)
Basically, Lionesses are the regular population that get food and raise kids, while the lion is the guy they call when another lion wants some poon
Change is difficult and the lionesses don't want their cubs to die, so the lion goes out
If they like him, they'll help, if not, he either wins or loses
@@cloudypine3683 They occupy a similar niche to lions, so lions and hyenas are constantly competing for the same prey and often lay waste to each other's young
Lets just say Disney doesnt always do their ENTIRE research
I can't believe I forgot the single best line in the entire movie "Not exactly. We can't digest grass. We're grass intolerant."
Jerry Stiller's delivery is what sells that line….
Something that’s always ticked me off is how the Lion King popularised the idea that lions are the unchallenged top predators of the savanna, while hyenas are the dumb, pathetic scavengers destined to scrounge off of the predators. On the contrary, hyenas themselves ARE predators, and are known to kill most of their prey, while also directly competing with not only lions, but also leopards, wild dogs, cheetahs, and other predators. They also have jaws powerful enough to crush right through bone and intelligence rivalling or even surpassing primates in some areas such as teamwork. A troop of hyenas is a terrifying force to be reckoned with, and it’s even been theorised by some that the reason lions evolved to live in prides was BECAUSE of pressure from hyenas.
Another thing I want to mention is that, when raised in isolation away from these competitive conditions, hyenas and lions can actually be quite friendly towards each other if taught to socialise properly with each other, as can a lot of animals that normally can’t stand each other, thereby further suggesting that the whole “behaviour is an unchangeable part of us” isn’t even true given the fact that both humans and animals are capable of adapting our behaviour.
i think many biologists and animal lovers would agree here!
I mean competing with cheetahs is not that impressive
@@DanJuega Compete? They straight up BULLY cheetahs
Lions are also known to mainly scavenge off of Hyenas kill.
@@DanJuega Cheetahs are really successful hunters, but when it comes to a fight… yeah they get bodied pretty easily.
Lion King 1 1/2 had a quantifiable impact on my life. The special features had a dark ride simulator where you rode a robot wildebeest through the story of the lion king where things go wrong. I remember a scene where the Hyenas chase you and then the lights turn on and they’re just eyes on sticks.
I work in lighting in theme parks now.
That bonus feature lives deeply inside me, I was also terrified of the hyena eyes on sticks. This shit impacted my sense of humor like nothing else
Yes! And a "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" game called "Who Wants to be King of the Jungle"! I loved playing that game.
@@LoraCoggins OH MY GOD what a memory
Omg I adored that dark ride!! I must have replayed it dozens of times, haha
That's so cool!! Congrats OP ❤
Didn't the special edition of the first movie also have a dark ride game on it?
This is simultaniously the most and least cohesive video essay I have ever seen and I love it
This video is the perfect combination of both "well-researched analysis" and "absolutely batshit unhinged".
Indeed
No, it's a perfect example of you can be to Educated. If all you see is Demons you'll find Demons in everything.
@@loslobos786 naw you're just an ignoramus, lmfao she perfectly spells out all the metaphors from the movies in this video and they seem more than just intentional, it may take someone "crazy" or maybe just "educated"(same thing to people like you right?) to see what most don't but that doesn't mean the very idea is crazy. Something tells me your an ignorance is bliss kind of person, so I'm gonna stop before you try and find my communist a$$
If you really think she's unhinged for noticing glaring and seemingly intentional metaphors then I'm guessing you think anyone with any type of nuanced understanding of anything is also "unhinged" by their obsessions right?
@@QueezTheDefiantScientist lol this isn't nuanced, it's insanity there are no metaphors here just the ravings of a self admitted women who suffers from depression anxiety and probably a host or other problems!! What's more likely that Timon and his mother have Jewish mannerism because the actors playing them are Jewish or because Lion King 1/2 is a secret allegory for the book of Exodus??? It always astounds me that people pay no attention to the Bum on the street corners ravings but one loca girl with a psychology degree online makes a video and she suddenly has a point. No wonder this country is FD we let you people vote.
I can't get over Mufasa's "respect the lower class" speech, it's so magnificent! Thank you!
You know *as a black person* I always saw the Lions as “African” growing up. Like legitimately I never once saw them as “white” or whatever? They had African names, many of them were voiced by black/African people, all the songs were African, especially the Circle of Life…I just assumed that it was a homage to African people personified as animals in this story… And that the Hyenas might represent out groups taking over pre-established lands and peoples with their greed. (Kinda like that Colonialism thing that happened which destroyed the balance in many African peoples land and actually cause famine and death..)
So like the concept that apparently many many people, including white supremacists see the lions as white is really weird to me. And the fact that the text is seeing the Hyenas as lowlife people and representing the black people or whatever is kinda weird to process. It’s like saying The Proud Family is actually about white people with re-vitiligo. :/
Maybe because I see the Lion King from this perspective is why I can never discredit it or it’s message as bad? Because like…all you have to do is change the groups and situations around and suddenly it’s not the same meaning at all.
They're lions. They arent people at all. The point is anyone can impose themselves on them.
If an argument can be used to mean the exact opposite point then it's an horrible argument
They're animals.
@@Mae4Ever they are a furry hamlet interpretation
@@Mae4Ever humans are animals.
As a kid who grew up with this movie, I found it really fascinating to watch.
As a kid named TOM who grew up with this movie, I collapsed in my seat laughing.
OH MY GOD (why had I not considered that other people named Tom could watch this video? Sorry to reach through the screen and yell at you specifically lmao!)
@@The_Sin_Squad It's all good! I was just... VERY caught off guard. Didn't help that I grew up in a place full of Boston accents and mostly Jewish classmates - this video got real meta *real quick* right then.
Hello fellow Tom
Symbolic Tom
"your red is different from my red; I can't see through the blood" holy SHIT what a line to drop in a comedy bit in a video about a direct-to-dvd lion king sequel
@jaredjams4267I think it means some people can ignore the bad things happening in the world while others can’t. “See through the blood” as in “look past the issues”. Some people can turn a blind eye to the bigoted kind of stuff happening, but usually those who are either affected or empathetic find it impossible to ignore. “Your red is different from my red” might mean “your idea of bigotry and bad things aren’t like mine”. Most people expect bigotry and tragedies to be obviously bad, but it’s not; there’s microaggressions and horrible things that don’t seem like a big deal at first.
BTW I’ve barely watched the video, but based on the fact it’s about white pride and Judaism (in the form of a Disney movie), and the possible nuances to the quote op said, I’m just kinda eyeballing it.
A quote that also applies to the hypocrisy of calling the actions of one group and ignoring the similarities in others. Specifically a lack of mentions on the concept of goyim and how that fits into this whole comparison.
"A lot of you already probably consider Timon jewish"
Me, who had never head about this interpretation before: "Well, better get comfortable, this gonna be wild"
That said, I didn't expect to be hit in the face with a brick of sign interpretation every 10 minutes. Thanks a lot, I loved it.
Timon is not Jewish the actor who plays him is, as is the actress who played his Mother that's why he has perceived Jewish behaviors. It's the same BS that got George Lucas and the guy who played Jar Jar Binks in trouble. The Actor is Black so the character had black mannerisms, tone of voice, the way he walks. Since you saw an Alien dimwit instead of a Black Jamaican Man with these attributes your neurotic grown up brain with all its hang ups and such couldn't compute this and just saw racism. Rather than the reality of an Actor playing the Comedy relief who just happened to be Black. This is why little Children love Jar Jar but adults hate him, they don't have our hang ups. This is basically what this Woman failed to realize when she made this garbage and we are all dumber for having watched it.
If you listen more than 2 seconds, (and know jews) then you'd see she'S 100% right. but you wanna jump to conclusions and get all offended before actually listening...ok.
@@craigcj5953 Please take your meds
@@craigcj5953Timon's voice actor Nathan Lane is from a Catholic family in New Jersey and then moved to NYC early in his acting career, so I can understand him getting influenced by Jews growing up and that shaping his comedic delivery
I saw the movie translated into my first language, so all the subtext is lost so this is the first time I've heard this interpretation.( ╹▽╹ )
The eating the mug bit fricken got me. Nothing will ever be able to describe my frustration of media's whack takes on incredibly complex topics that they are not nearly equipped to handle like this clip.
my little pony friendship is magic trying and failing to have a conversation about native americans and colonization and ending with a pie fight and a “sharing is caring” message come to mind
I agree that bit was great. I'm stealing it now.
“The Lion King is kind of about racial hierarchy” is a take I’m familiar with, but “meerkats are jews what does that MEEEEEAN!?” is new to me. Great video.
'Its bad when movies have loose analogy to racial heirarchy but its ok when the Jews actually practise racial hierarchy':(Israel).
Thats what she was trying to say. "Judaism, promised lands, racial pride, ethnic supremacy, paranoia" and she deliberately ignored the big elephant in her own room.
@@aintnoslice3422 or, maybe she spent 50 minutes saying exactly what she wanted to?
Isreal isn't even fully supported by Jewish people internationally. America for instance supports it primarily because our Evanganical Fundementalists(which is the largest voting block of our extreme conservative party) require its existence so that it can be destroyed at the end of the world, and as their concern isnt on the wellbeing of people, and rather directly wishing for their destruction, the atrocities Israel are responsible for are ignored. ButI'm not willing to extend the responsibility for wrongdoings to people that are tangentially related.
The racial hierarchy thing is new to me
@@aintnoslice3422 Israel does not practice racial hierarchy, what are you smoking?
@aintnoslice3422 and I think what you're saying is we need to start a massive harrasment campaign against this person until she declares the lion king is about jesus or something and she's sowwy
"If we're worried our kids might have taken the wrong message from a film, we can sit them down and talk to them." I want that quote written on a monument that will be built over a crypt containing every Disney live action remake.
Yeah lol. Way too many people forget that the majority of kids are, in fact, human beings you can have an equal conversation with.
You have to keep in mind a lot of parents put movies on to keep their kid distracted or as a way to ease the burden of raising them themselves and thus won't be having these sit down and talk moments with their kids. They put faith in the idea that Disney is a family friendly company and could only have the consumer's best interest in mind. I cannot recall a single instance of my overworked, immigrant parents ever starting a nuanced discussion of anything that they let me watch. And anything that they didn't let me watch was swept away as soon as something "too heavy" happened, often in a way so abrupt that I was compelled to search for these heavy topics completely on my own, at times piecing together answers from other media, which of course meant it was a long confusing journey to finally getting a full picture of the world at large.
It is still important to criticize what is being put out by these media companies and not just berating parents (either willfully or ignorantly neglecting their child's intellectual development) if we want to actually help those children who would most be disadvantaged from the problematic elements of these movies.
I loved how this video essay went from like. Intense breakdown of the undertones of a disney movie to intense breakdown of the constructs of society to intense mental breakdown. Beautiful work, never change, this is why I keep coming back.
"nazis used the lion king to recruit furries" was not a sentence i thought i'd hear today but here we are
Existing on UA-cam during Gamergate has taught me that you often can't even talk about the shit neo nazis do these days to sane people who are not aware of their influence cause you end up sounding like a crazy person. It's like talking about declassified CIA docs. It's like the absurdity is part of their tactics to get away with things at times.
@@KookiesNolly exactly this and i feel like i'm losing my mind. someone had to sit down with the mission to write a parody of we are one with the intention to spread alt right ideals. someone wrote those lyrics, someone sang and recorded said lyrics with the end goal of getting furries on their side. this is a reality we live in when this was done with complete and utter seriousness. if it wasn't properly documented i would be fully convinced it was just pulled from a fake tumblr post but no, it's very real.
@@KookiesNolly What do the real neo nazis do? All I see are glowie larpers who openly operate when it serves to strengthen government control over social issues. Never forget that the leaders of such groups have always been feddies and funded by them.
@@KookiesNolly Have you seen the LGBT community?
@@TeikonGom Have you seen the insides of a shower?
I like how the analysis makes perfect sense for 8 minutes, then swerves into insanity
5 minutes in, i can't wait
oh boy
im at 7 minutes
zoo wee
While the racial reading of the hyenas and the idea that their inferiority caused the environmental desolation are made explicit in the remake, I think the more intuitive reading of the original is that the drought & famine come as retribution against Scar himself for disrupting the “natural order” of *royal succession.* The hyenas get far less blame from the lionesses than Scar in that version, so it comes off as “nature” (God) punishing him and his kingdom for not being a “true king.”
Still a monarchist narrative with racial overtones in its theming, I just don’t think the original conveys nearly as strong a connection between the hyenas being “out of place” and the ecological collapse.
But there's something to be said about Scar being very effeminate, SIGNIFICANTLY darker than his brother than the other lions, and queer coded being the corruptor of the natural order.
That's how I read it too, at the end of the day The Lion King is a modern day Parable, like you'd read in Aesop's Fables. It's not intended as an endorsement of any real world power structure, it's a "just-so" story featuring Animals. It's not propaganda for white supremacists, and anyone who reads it that way - is probably a racist.
While it makes sense narratively, I also like the interpretation that it was just bad timing that the drought happened and the point of it in the story was to show the kind of leader Scar is under a bad circumstance. Because it's easy to be a leader when things are going well, but when things are bad and you have to make tough decisions is what separates the good and bad leaders. And Scar was repeatedly shown to not be putting in the effort, blaming others, wanting respect for doing nothing, and when the time came for a hard decision (leaving Pride Rock to follow the herds for food) he outright said he'd rather they all die then leave Pride Rock aka admitting how bad things are and fixing it aka literally and metaphorically putting HIS pride over THE pride.
Yeah, I remember also being puzzled about the fate of the Pride Lands after Scar's coup when I stopped to think about it, and then I read MacBeth for the first time and something clicked. The fact that the plot of The Lion King kind of resembles Egyptian mythology kind of reminded me of how I'd heard that pharaohs were apparently seen as being the ones responsible for the Nile's inundating, which would presumably mean that the nation not having a legitimate pharaoh would lead to a drought.
I also kind of like the wackjob interpretation that it was Zeus that caused the drought, being personally angered by Scar's assassination, and then later told his son to kill him, hence his being shown dead in Hercules.
@@tomasmccauley569 It's possible, but I highly doubt that's the narrative the movie was going for. I'm pretty sure Scar was only voiced by Jeremy Irons because he's a very good actor, and because it's tradition for villains in American cinema to have British, European or Russian accents. Because they sound exotic and cultured, decidely un-American.
The Lion King is basically Hamlet with Lions at its core, with a skin of African culture stretched over it.
I love how the essay becomes progressivly more chaotic as the video goes on.
After watching the section on "paranoid reading", I felt something positive although not sure what specific emotion to call it. I think "paranoid reading" is not just an issue we're facing today (particularly in online discourse), but that there's an equivalent version of it when it comes to the act of writing. I'm constantly scrutinizing my own writing because I'm so worried of unintentionally writing a negative message I didn't intend, even when it comes to writing things based on my own experiences and identity. I've seen writers who wrote stories about *their own identities* and get torn apart by their allies for what I now believe were paranoid readings, and not even being part of the community they were accused of being offensive against helped in the discourse. I'm scared thinking about writing about my own identity - as a woman, as queer, as autistic - that I'll I unintentionally offend or deeply upset someone from my own communities, that I'll accidentally write a stereotype I didn't know existed, that I'll accidentally contribute to a broader harmful trend. I've procrastinated on finally getting to producing these stories out of fear I haven't made them full-proof against people accusing me over something I didn't try to be.
I can at least tell you you're not alone. So, so, sooooo many marginalized creators feel that same fear. If I may get up on my soapbox:
I feel like more and more people have learned to dig for the most bad faith reading first, and then-rather than double back and consider, like, the author's humanity, or other opposing-but-still-valid reads-use that paranoid analysis as a cudgel to shame and punish the creator. It's been bizarre to watch unfold online: I've seen fans admit to feeling PRESSURED by their peers to perform this type of analysis-turned-hound-hunting just to keep the target off their own backs. Others use callouts to accrue social brownie points, or even to bond with fellow fans. The good faith criticism gets lost in the noise. And like you pointed out, this culture of paranoid analysis begets paranoid creators. For a lot of creators, the question has shifted from "What if I get dogpiled over my work?" to "WHEN will I get dogpiled over my work?" I’ve been dogpiled myself over fanfic already (I was accused of racism for "assigning animalistic characteristics to characters of color" because I wrote a SFW omegaverse fic with main characters of color).
I wish I had an easy solution for you. I believe in reflection and sensitivity readers. And I also believe, like I stated in the video, that minorities are not a monolith. Maybe this won’t do anything for you, but personally-it got a lot easier for me to write once I’d accepted my work would always harm SOMEONE. I really don’t think there’s such a thing as a completely non-offensive piece of fiction. We talk about perpetuating harmful tropes through our work, but from one autistic queer woman to another…I’m pretty sure all of my favorite ace, autistic, and female characters could, given the right framing, be labeled as regressive or offensive. My favorite ace character (Jonathan Sims) exceeds some notable, stereotypical ace criteria right off the bat; he’s presented as awkward and cold and (later) less-than-human. But his ace-ness means so much to me as an ace person. Some ace people feel differently about Jon, and I suppose that’s the point. The harm some people take from a piece of media doesn’t necessarily negate the joy taken by others.
If you try to remove all the harm from your work-any aspect which could be construed as offensive or regressive-you’ll get styrofoam every single time. This type of paranoia, from both the reader and writer side of the aisle, is really, really good at producing white, cishetero, neurotypical, god-honoring moral fables. And I want to stress that even the most bland saltine of a story can still get you dogpiled, for no other reason than someone got bored.
I don’t know you or your situation, but I hope you can let some of that self-scrutiny go. You will, almost certainly, unintentionally offend or deeply upset someone with your work. I wish I could tell you how to balance creative freedom with like, some amount of care and awareness, but I don’t think there’s any one recipe re: “How to recognize/honor good faith criticism and also not paralyze your creative process.” It’s okay to not know all the answers. I’m sorry the creative atmosphere is so tense right now, and I wish you so much joy and freedom in your pursuits.
@@The_Sin_Squad The only thing in that fanfic situation you *actually* deserved to get bullied for was the omegaverse shit lmao
@@herpderp3916I am cringe and I am free lol
What y'all are talking about is so close to home. I two, also worry about paranoid reading of my own writing.
Tho I'm still figuring out my own self, I can say I do desire to possibility write A gay or trans character. But I fear someone interpreting my story as offensive mainly cause the use of Anthropomorphic animals. Which is not my intention whatsoever but I worry someone my interpret my characters as bad representation. Anywho have A good one fellow writers.
@@The_Sin_SquadWhy create crazy OVER-TOP video about The Lion King 1 1/2 with Judaism,White pride and Paranoia.
Watching an unhinged breakdown of a kid's movie at 2am is a weird way to have your entire outlook towards artistic/textual interpretation completely changed for the better, but that definitely just happened to me. Thanks for blowing my mind in the most artful, clever, sincere, and absolutely ridiculous way possible.
I'm a zoologist, and I sometimes spend my time debunking myths left in the wake of the Lion King, for starters, a lion pride is not a state or nation such as a kingdom, it's a family, but here's where it gets complicated, some lion prides are all male, and some have a lioness matriarchy, in fact, lion prides are passed down through the female line, when the male lion cub grows up, it is expected to leave never to return to the pride of its birth, the female lion cubs on the other hand retain a presence in the pride, the Lion Queen is perhaps a more accurate representation of lion biology. A troubling thing, I have noticed about the Lion King is more than its white supremacist overtones, but also sexist overtones, boosting the status of male lions to the top of the hierarchy, while the lionesses job is to produce offspring, and provide food for their king, because this expected of females as a lower status to the males. In the wild, and yes captivity, it's the lioness who rules, they even have the ability to banish males, not doing enough to benefit the pride, eats more than their fair share of meat, or is too rough on the other lions, the lioness will gang up and fight the male, forcing them to leave, so for those who believe democracy does not exist in the wild, should try observing animals more, and watching cartoons less. Nala could have been the main protagonist, and Simba as a deuteragonist, it would have balanced out the characters as lions in the wild, and lions as human symbolism, it might have reduced the right conservatism, as understood in the western world, and it is interesting Lion King 1 1/2 actually deconstructs the narrative of the previous films. By the way, lions are not noble characters, in the wild they do tend to steal kills from spotted hyenas, so they are not always diligent hunters, interpret that as you will, finally, meerkats are not indigenous to east Africa, their name comes from Afrikaans, they are a south African mongoose, their habitat is even more inhospitable, such as the Namib and Kalahari deserts.
I agree.
Why do you need to debunk the idea that a lion pride is a bloody nation? Are you teaching kids, or adults who think like kids?
It's about what it represents.
@@SM-cv8svyou’d be surprised by how stupid people are when it comes to their knowledge of animals
I like your ideas and I think the idea with Nala is a good idea as soon as Simba was shirking his duty she should have just been like fine I’ll do it myself
I’m dying to know how “the lion guard” fits into all this
Deep readings of children's films are the only source of political and sociological education I can absorb so thank you
mood
You should try something of more substance, so you can develop and rationalize your own ideas
@@evenlord7825right? why would hennaoctopus admit this
@@superhetoric maybe because not everyone is interested in reading dry ass philosophy books for fun
jokes aside we gotta grow up at some point n actually study these things with rigor. videos like these are fun but are absolutely not a substitute for study.
I loved this movie when I was a kid, and I always knew that Timon had to be Jewish. I felt like Timon's family was basically my family (I even have an Uncle Max who is a lot like Timon's Uncle Max).
Thank you for putting into words that feeling of familiarity I felt as a kid.
it was my favorite movie in the series as a kid, and this movie finally explains why
I'm curious to know more about your Uncle Max, he seems like he has some interesting traits
is your uncle single
As a kid i never caught this but I weirdly identified with it in a way a couldn’t explain until now. Kind of crazy having me think back to this movie in a completely different light than I had as a kid
Jerry Stiller aka Frank Constanza happens to be Jewish. Now I'm starting to wonder what Uncle Max hosting a Festivus would be like.
I bet you his "airing of grievances" for Timon will be lengthy.
As this is my first video of yours I saw the thumbnail and thought "oh dear this can only go two ways I hope it's the first reasonable one" I'm glad to see it was the third option of mental break down
Can you talk about The Lion Guard, next? I think Kion and the rest of his Lion Guard are another example of writers attempting to grapple with the hierarchical structure of the Circle of Life, but despite the main character actively shaking up the status quo, it ultimately reasserts itself by the end of the story. It's a great watch, and I'd like to see some more analysis on it.
I don't think the status quo can ever be truly undermined in the allegory vs animals as people. As humans, while we are mammals, our existence relies on a position to observe the natural ways of life around us and nurture in exchange for survival and thriving as a species ourselves. since the lions are still animals, in comparison to the other animals in the pride land, it will always be a mucky metaphor. I think as a kid my favourite part of the lion king was that there were no humans and i was able, from a cultural perspective, be okay with the parts that didnt quite equate, because nature and the wild are full of cruel and horrific acts and things that felt unjust- because the cast of the lion king are in fact animals lol
That seems pretty on brand for Disney, they seem to enjoy stories where villains want to change the status quo while heroes carve their own place in it while keeping everything the same. Pop Culture Detective had a pretty good video on this with Marvel.
@@rebeccagibbs4128 Eh, I'd say that the Lion Guard did a pretty decent job of undermining the status quo.
The Lion Guard is made up of a group of animals who watch over the Pridelands, and protect all of the animals therein from natural disasters and unnecessary loss of life. Prior to the start of the story, the Lion Guard is generally made up entirely of Lions, and has been since its introduction.
The previous Lion Guard was led by Scar, only for them to be disbanded when he "turned evil" and abused the powers he was given as its leader. It's an entire generation before a new Lion Guard is formed, with the son of Simba, Kion, at its head.
Kion is tasked with creating a new Lion Guard, and because he lacks the biases of previous generations, he chooses non-Lions for the rest of his team.
The team works together extremely well, but circumstances basically force him on a journey away from the Pridelands (so Lion King 2 can happen while he's away). When he returns, he finds that the Pridelands have a new Lion Guard, and it's basically all lions once again. Kion accepts this, transfers power peacefully, and returns to the magical land he found on his journey with the rest of his friends.
So despite the amazing shake up in the Lion Guard status quo, eventually, the status quo reasserts itself. Kion's love life is much the same. He makes friends with a female hyena, and the two share a lot of romantic tension/chemistry. However, he ultimately ends up with another female lion he meets at the magical land of his journey's end. And so despite playing around with it, the status quo ultimately reasserts itself right at the tail end of his story.
Despite that, it's still a pretty good watch throughout, IMHO.
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois TBH, I don’t care for that reading. The villains aren’t trying to “change” the status quo. They’re trying to destroy it…along with everything and everyone else for the sake of their personal gain. That’s what makes them the bad guys.
The Lion Guard always made me insanely mad for whatever reason. I left feeling bad for Kion during multiple points because similar to Sofia the First, Kion gets a LOT of responsibilities for a child to handle when he never even asked for it, constantly putting his life on the line and even having to face Scar at one point, except he can literally burn Kion alive.
Isn't defending the Pride Lands and solving conflicts between the subjects of the Pride Lands supposed to be the KING of the Pride Lands' job? What is Simba doing as king if not that? "The Lion Guard has always been made up of lions!" Well with you being the only male of the pride and Kiara, Zuri and Tifu being BEYOND incapable, who else do you expect your child to pick besides his best friends? Not to mention him arguing with Bunga, a child, and causing a cave-in. "Well, you caused cave-in too!" Grow up.
I remember the episode where Kion nearly kills his mother after losing control of The Roar. Of course Kion is stressed out after this ensues and tells Nala that he doesn't want to use the roar anymore in fear of hurting those he loves. Nala basically tells him "The roar is part of who you are, you can't stop using it" which I found a bit fucked up.
Another thing that bugged me was how EVERY pre-existing character from the movies besides Timon and Pumba (The childish-humored comic reliefs) and Nuka and Kovu (who get like two minutes of screen time throughout the entire series) are written DRASTICALLY different than how they appear in the movies. Like how can you get Kiara wrong? You people do realize making Kiara snobby and bossy and overall the opposite of who she is invalidates the reason Kovu fell for her and decided NOT to kill her father, right?
I like how previous kings and Lion Guard leaders show up to lend Kion advice (again, similar to Sofia the First) but Mufasa's advice kinda seems like the same thing just repackaged. "Believe in yourself, don't lose control of the roar" ok, but how do I defeat your brother?
Kion x Rani is the worst. She only shows Kion decency when she realizes how powerful The Roar is. "Now I know why the previous queen was so excited to have The Roar back at the Tree of Life, perhaps it should stay around?"
Sorry for the essay but I had to get this off my back lol. The Lion Guard is an enjoyable series but it dropped the ball on a lot of things I feel. It would've been better if it took place after The Lion King ll, but I assume the reason it didn't is because that movie is "not popular" which is bull and could've easily been worked around. I love over analyzing kids shows lol.
I'm not Jewish, nor did I grow up near any Jewish community, yet I still remember thinking Timon was Jewish pretty early in my life because of his name and the way he spoke just like Jewish comedians on TV.
The fact that Julie Kanver and Jerry Stiller, who play Timon's mother and Uncle Max also happen to be Jewish is just as ironic. Heck, Stiller was also Frank Constanza. Now I want to think about him hosting a Festivus
Uncle Max: Welcome, newcomers. The tradition of Festivus begins with the airing of grievances. I GOT A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH YOU ALL! AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ABOUT IT! YOU PUMBAA! MY NEPHEW SAYS YOUR GAS PASSING KILLS THE WILDLIFE!
(Pumbaa turns to Timon.)
Timon: Oh God....
Uncle Max: (To Timon) Quiet, you'll get yours in a minute. (Looks to Pumbaa again) PUMBAA, YOU COULDN'T KEEP IT IN YA PASSED BY A FEMALE WARTHHOG GIVIN' YA-(Stops to think for a second.) I lost my train of thought.
I always thought the meerkats were portrayed as hypervigilant because they are known for standing on their hind legs and watching in a cute way
yeah she mentions this
This violence inherent in analysis you spoke about in the second half reminds me of how much I hated to interpret poems in school, because I would always read the 'wrong' thing into it.
Yeah. I get it for educational purposes, but the (American) education system really neglects any art for its own sake.
Oh captain my captain
Remind me of a time a teacher was trying to get the "right" answer out of me about an (animal) character in a book who's teeth were described as not worn out at all, despite his old age. And I was like "He doesn't get to use them very often?" because that seemed the most logical conclusion. And she was like "wrong, he's still dangerous". And me: Ikd, if his teeth are in perfect condition on death door, he clearly never used them to kill, much less to fight.
Everyone always forgets to include 1/2 in their "circle of life bad" hot takes even though it's the movie that becomes the most interesting when viewed through that lense. Great job.
Hermeneutic circling! So that's what my re-reading of novels is all about. Now I know why I love picking up subtle hints that the complicated, misunderstood characters aren't all bad; and then going back to understand how come the main character was so deceived in them while learning about myself as a reader.
God this videos fucking good.
“The moment we exile minority representation to the narrow margins of “good optics”, so to do we restrict minority artists ability to tell their own stories.” That particularly hit me.
In the age of the internet it seems like paranoid readings of popular works is the most common, or at least the loudest kind of interpretation. I wish discursive spaces left more room open for finding the potential for positive readings, or at least nuanced readings, to exist alongside or even *inside* interpretations of things as problematic.
especially good at projecting racial supremacist views onto other groups while conveniently ignoring your on glaring example: Israel.
I'm a white South African. Thank you for speaking up for me and all minorities 👍
@@jjjjajalololololol no one’s talking to you
@@nirvanaheights I know, I was replying to them lolololololololololololololol
❤❤❤❤
The way this video gut punched me, kicked me on the floor, helped me up, dusted my off my shoulders then whispers in my ear “I’m sorry, let’s get ice cream” Is how you earned a subscriber today
I got a lot of respect for the person who made this video just because of their ability to re-assess their thoughts, perspective and try to figure out reality without doubling down just not to be wrong. It was also just oddly compelling to watch and see to the end.
We should just collectively stop trying to use animals as a shorthand for social problems because it dismisses way too much nuance and almost always leads into the notion that things are the way that they are for a reason.
Edit: Okay, I made a blanket statement. I don't mean Allegories in general shouldn't be used to tell stories. They're great shorthands for getting across certain ideas.
I should specify that I do not like using Animals for Racial issues because the comparison gets real murky real quickly if you stop to think for more than a minute.
And like
What if there were humans in the Lion King?
What social group are they supposed to metaphorically represent?
We are not gods separate from the forces of nature, but animals as well.
Yeah, and it always becomes a problem because of our inherent bias towards certain species, like whichever racial group (or other societal group) becomes analogous for rats (or any other gross animals) are always going to be rightfully upset
Exactly, it's the same thing that bugs me about using superheroes as a shorthand for minorities or a story about witch hunts in a world where witches are real,
because it takes away from any anti-bias message when "the other", instead of being a human like ourselves, is either literally a different species and/or has a bunch of unnatural powers.
Instead, use humans to represent animals instead! (this is a joke)
So are we just tossing out the concept of a fable here? Because fables are stories about animals aiming to teach a moral, which would mean adressing some sort of social issue. Just because some people don’t know how to write allegory doesn’t mean we completely abandon allegory as a narrative device.
That explanation of "paranoid reading" and the "hermetic circle" were very interesting and helpful.
Yep, very nice of her to have made a 53 minute long video demonstrating it too.
42:35 I actually wrote my first poem/song about Flower's death at the time...
"Flower was the best meerkat / She was the greatest meerkat / Flower died bravely, defending her pups/ From a hooded cobra, a deadly snake"
Aww
This video kind of reminded me of the discourse in the RPG community around fantasy races and concepts around them. How there was discussions around using "savage" and "tribal" signifiers around the races literally marked as "always evil" and stuff like that. And the common pushback from the counter side saying "If you see Black people when you get shown an Orc, that seems like YOU being racist". And of course if devolved into a lot of incoherent screaming. And it, similarly to the Lion King situation, had the big hang up of "But these aren't all the same people, they are LITERALLY physically different. They have LITERAL biological variance to a degree that is irreconcilable." And at the end of the day you both have to do your best to not hit the most flagrant pitfalls or exploit it in harmful ways as well as not get too hung up on the minutia and embrace the fun as it was intended.
The funny thing is, Orcs ARE based on a real life culture in their earlier depictions: It's the Mongols.
Orcs are a usually nomadic people (usually from the east, even) who raid the settled folk and work on the basis of rule of the strongest. They're a 'rampaging horde', which is the view a lot of people have of the steppe empires. Everything from early days Warhammer to Elder Scrolls portrays them as wearing mongol-adjacent clothing and armour. Elder Scrolls still keeps that a bit with Orcs having a lot of Steppe-inspired haircuts, although that's basically the only Mongol-esque thing left about them - few things portray orcs as mongols these days. I guess more recently the people of Ukraine have started referring to Russians as 'orcs' which is harkening back to that vision a little.
But for some reason, nobody looks at Orcs and sees Mongols, or steppe peoples in general. Racists see black people and everyone else sees British football hooligans if they're even still doing the 'savage rampaging horde' thing, which a lot of orcs today don't; and as we all know, British football hooligans are in fact an always evil race.
Nobody tell the wider community that since the 00's at least, racists have been seeing insectoid races as being analogous to the Chinese, or east asians in general. I'd hate to lose them because of The Discourse™. MYFAROG is right there guys, has been for a decade; racists have and will always see them this way no matter what you do.
@pretentiouselizabeth8027 the whole Mongol/Orc and Insect/Chinese thing goes further back. Tolkien and Heinlein said as much. But the Mongol thing has been increasingly replaced a lot by "Dark Continent" style signifiers. Shrunken heads, totem masks, and that sort of stuff.
But it's also in how races get stuffed into a monoculture with no variation that causes the problem. Even the Football Hooligan variety.
And as much as racists will find ways to see their worldview in stuff, it is good to not make it easy on 'em.
@@legateelizabeth If you look at the original source for the orcs, the lord of the rings, while there are some similarities to the mongols, there's also differences mainly that orcs are evil and corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron, and fill the role as cannon fodder for the dark lord in the story. The origins and what happens to the orcs were actually more or less unresolved by Tolkien, and he changed his mind about where they came from multiple times.
It's also worth noting that in WW1 a lot of British and later American propaganda described the Germans as Hun's from the East, and Tolkien did fight in WW1 so that could have impacted some of the similiarites, although there is no link between the German empire and the Mongols.
As far as I've seen "russian orcs" has only been used in relation to the russian's invading Ukraine or who support the invasion, not Russian people more broadly, and apart from both being East of some of the countries they invaded there aren't direct links between the mongol empire and the current Russian empire
@@雷-t3j
The link between the Germans and the Mongols is that germanic tribes were recruited by the Huns against Rome, and the Huns were a Turkic majority steppe horse-raid people like the Mongols. The Mongol Empire also quite famously invaded and occupied what is now today's Russia, and Ivan III breaking away from it laying the foundations of Russia.
I hate the idea that "if you see Black people when you see orks, YOU'RE the racist" when historical media analysis of media made by white people shows a clear pattern of Black men specifically being shown as "brutish thugs that live in gangs/tribes". Like, if that description doesn't scream "ork" to you, idk what to tell you, but racist propaganda has a long history that is easy to find, and pointing these things out isn't f-ing racism jfc
This was such an interesting watch for me, because being blindsided with the statement that "The Lion King is a white supremacist, fascist narrative" was. Wild, to say the least. In multiple ways! Simultaneously I was going "wait ok what the hell kind of read is this for a massively well-known kid's movie, to sit in ur adult chair and go 'its actually a glorification of fascistic rhetoric' toward a film for 7 year olds about lions" and, also, "shit, that isnt an invalid read of the text. have i been holding this up as a good film in my mind and unthinkingly dignifying propaganda?"
The ultimate point here about paranoid readings was a rlly good way to put words to a feeling I have sometimes that leftists are very, very prone to looking at fiction in a way where we WANT to find the bad messages, WANT to read the worst into a story, because it makes us feel like we're consuming media the Right Way and like we arent susceptible to bad rhetoric or to liking bad things. We spot the problematic aspects and can label that art as Bad Art, and walk away feeling good about that. But like...as u say labelling a story like that in one rigid way completely denies us any other more positive reads and removes opportunities to find wonderful, uplifting reads of narratives because we're really busy always trying to find out Whether This Art Has Objectively Problematic Ideas To Warn People About.
And this isnt to say that talking about possible bad messaging is a bad thing! The writer of 1 1/2 saying he didnt intend for Jewish subtext, for all his claims, still probably should have conceded that, in some sense, he still wrote a Jewish movie. We can put all kinds of unintended possible subtext into stories we write because symbols and context and literal plot elements interact in big complex messy ways that can signify one meaning for one person and a MASSIVELY different meaning for another. The way all these moving parts come together, its VERY easy for the well-meaning writer wanting to tell a funny animal story to Do A Eugenics without ever having that idea in their mind. It's incredibly important to, as u say, engage with fiction with multiple approaches, to be open to changing how we look at media and not approaching everything with the same mindset so we don't box ourselves into tiny, narrow ideas of art.
So...yeah, very cool video? sorry for the dissertation length comment just to say that bgsfhnjd
I don't think there is a single unproblematic Disney movie. That's a natural result of the period and people who made them (white middle aged dudes) and a reductive stories trying to delineate clear good vs evil Christian outlook, juxtaposed on the real society that will always produce "some people are inherently bad" narrative.
100% agree
Leftists are prone to this?
Also (and forgive me if this was mentioned in the vid), but wasn't Hamlet a major inspiration for the Lion King in general? Given that Hamlet takes place within the context of a human kingdom, the writers' attempts to shoehorn that story into the animal kingdom on the premise that the lion is the "king" would naturally produce elements that contradict zoological reality
This is the most brilliant, insightful, unhinged video essay I've ever seen. I love it
well this certainly gave me some mixed feelings lol
L...Lindsay? Lindsay Ellis? My hero Lindsay Ellis saW MY VIDEO? UM UH OH GOD UH HI HELLO WHAT DO I SAY UH...OH GOSH UM THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING! Hope you're doing well!
...Also, now I'm super curious about those mixed feelings lol! If something about the video left a bad taste in your mouth (and you have the time to share), I'd love to hear your notes. Cheers!
@@The_Sin_Squad well to be honest it was the part about paranoid reading, it put words to a phenom that I have first hand experienced, and at the same time kind of reinforced why I couldn't do this anymore --I think it is true that there is validity to understanding how marginalization creates paranoid reading, but I just don't have it in me to be sympathetic anymore. Paranoid reading quite literally ruined my life, and the reality is now i can't approach these topics with the kind of empathy and impartiality that you did. Anyway, great video, you're a super talented editor!
@@LindsayEllisVids Oh my gosh, thank you so much for the reply! To be honest, a lot of this video became like...an attempt to process my own turmoil over the time I was dogpiled over a paranoid reading (I wrote sfw omegaverse with characters of color and was accused of racism, transphobia and homophobia re: "ascribing animalistic characteristics to POC.") That NBC article where you talked about the trauma of your cancelation put me on the path towards recognizing and accepting my own trauma-so thank you so much for that vital commentary. It really messes with your ability to trust people, to watch friends turn on you over the most bad faith, paranoid takes. And these days a large group of consumers seem...way too happy to leverage their marginalization as a cudgel to try and control, shame, and otherwise harm creators. I'd hoped to untangle my thoughts with this video, but I still find myself torn. It's hard to justify one's existence as an over-analyzer by trade, when over-analyzing has itself become a weapon against marginalized creators, y'know?
It means so much that you took the time (and the risk) to reply so honestly, and I want to send you all my well-wishes. It makes perfect sense to like, not want to extend a sympathetic hand to people who may very well take your words and twist them up to make you look like a supervillain. I'm so sorry for what people put you through. The blame lies squarely on the people who misappropriated progressive language to make their paranoid takes sound like activism. They preached accountability, yet they ruined your life and got off scot-free-some were even rewarded for their abuse. I know this trauma doesn't "go away" with time-does closure even exist for this kind of thing?-but I hope the past few years have brought you some amount of peace.
Last but definitely not least,
OH MY GOSH LINDSAY ELLIS CALLED ME A SUPER TALENTED EDITOR AAAAAAAFDJSAKLF THANK YOU SO MUCH! AAAAAAAAA!
Have a great one!
Oh wow, the chick who gargles ContraPoints balls takes a media analysis video about Judaism and makes it about her getting bullied on Twitter.
Lindsay, go take care of your kid and recommit to going away.
Ngl, you had me a little concerned in the first half. Lol but I trusted you to get around to pulling the metaphor apart.
I love seeing different interpretations of text, you’re explanation of the “context” to “text” to back to “context” circle was actually a bit of a lightbulb moment for me. And I love how it kind of just distills how our views of text can change over time or even change us. That’s legit so cool.
Interpretations of the Lion King have always kind of sat wrong with me, because while I definitely see this reading and think there’s plenty of validity to it, it also always felt like it was, as you said, cherry-picking to make the metaphor work. And more importantly, is laying the blame on the Lion King for the sins of it’s fathers: Fantasy and even more specifically, Animal Fantasy as a genre. Animal Fantasy from it’s inception has always had this troubling relationship with glorifying a myriad of problematic themes like Class/Race superiority, eugenics, fascism, ect ect ect. Sometimes this is done with explicit intent, but a lot of times, like in the case of the Lion King trilogy, it’s just a carryover byproduct of using similar tropes and themes from the genre without considering it’s implications on our real world social systems.
And don’t get me wrong, I understand WHY The Lion King is under more scrutiny then the rest of the genre as a whole. Everyone knows The Lion King. Not everyone knows even the more “famous” (for it’s genre) Watership Down. Thus it’s deserving of more scrutiny by default. But as someone who loves animals and fantasy, AND also loves turning the text around in my head like a pretty little gemstone, this kind of pitfall with “analyzing into the ground” almost always happens. Especially due to how animal stories often sit on a weird in-between of fable and metaphor: not meant to take the metaphor too literally, but has stronger implications than your generic fable.
It’s a tough nut to crack, tbh, and I think it’s part of what people don’t like about the genre as a whole, because while animal stories make for great fables, things get messy really fast when you make them analogous to people.
Damn, this has given me some food for thought, and I could keep talking and turning this video over like the above mentioned pretty stone lol but I’ll stop here. Another great video, Rab!
"Timon is Moses" was the best quote I've ever heard in a while bouta tattoo it in my left forearm
This reminds me of that time I read a certain comic where the main character had the trait of being the unluckiest boy alive, in a how has he not been exploded to death by a random meteor hitting the dynamite factory that his school was visiting kind of way. Now there is nothing supernatural about this he is just really unlucky and for me it always felt like he was disabled. He had to make accomodations for his unluckiness and the people around him helped to make it work. Anyway there was an Arc of the comic with a school excursion and it was mainly about his fears of ruining the trip with his unluckiness and how the friends are suffering because of the accomodations they have to make for him and that just kind of hit me.
The Comic has over 200 chapter I read around 100 chapters and its an easy 4/10, but that one arc specifically spoke to me in a way the author maybe didn't even intend.
I love the ethics crisis the video has at the end- reminds me of my video essay consumption in high school and how I was sure of nothing by the end and confused about whether or not having an interpretation was reductive- 10/10 so interesting to listen to over cereal at noon.
I love this video so much. This is comparable to high level university courses in terms of analysis and research. I miss college for the way it delved into topics like this and I really appreciate the video essay. It important to consider how internal biases impact everything, even when it’s a kids movie most wouldn’t think twice about.
SIN SQUAD'S BACK LETS GOOOO!
Sometimes I’m like “what a nuanced and well presented thesis” and subscribe to a channel, and other times I’m like “well she did eat a coffee mug…”
So is the moral of the hyenas story is "some people need to stay hungry so the ruling class can eat as much as they want"?
I'm commenting mostly to say that the joke diagram you drew on the digital coloring book canvas at the end is actually the most poignant piece of modern art I've seen in a long time and I am not joking. I could write an essay on it, it perfectly encapsulates the feeling of inherent absurdity to over-analyzing a children's property, especially one as commercialized as The Lion King. If I could I would buy it and frame it.
I would also love to say that I love this video. Clicked on it thinking, "How in the hell is a video like this an hour long and not say 15 minutes?" And I was delighted by how this was different from other video essays that might pose the analysis you did and then at the end say, 'well yeah that's one interpretation", because you then analyzed that instinct in the first place. It opened my eyes to a lot of terms and ideas I've always thought of when listening to an overly paranoid analysis of something like a kid's film or fable - from youtubers and my own family as a POC. Where it's not that there isn't something to be analyzed both on the film's terms and outside itself, but after some time you are just a bad faith reader. The way that hit me also adds to why that accidental modern art masterpiece you created is hitting so hard.
That agonized "FLOWER NOOO" at @42:45 had me cackling and wheezing oh my GOD. As a fellow mal-adjusted preteen who also followed Meerkat Manor, this whole bit felt like someone walking over my grave LOL
NGL, _Meerkat Manor_ had better writing than the daytime soap operas of today 😂
@@KariIzumi1 for real 😂
Mufasa explaining trickle down economics and The Beatles needle drop got me hooked. Subbed.
This was an immensely informative vidéo, and your style made for a absolutely delightful watching experience. I had never heard of the term "paranoid reading", but it has given me immense amounts of peace to finally have word to a phenomenon I've noticed in myself time and time again.
I'm glad the algorithm favoured your video! I wish you nothing but the best of luck with your future video essay endeavours.
My favourite recovering Sherlock and Voltron survivor, you've done it again. Another banger. Amazingly well edited, especially considering this hellsite's copyright orbital laser beam. As well as teaching me 4 new things I never knew and will carry with me through every text I will ever read now. A wonder and a marvel. Excuse me, I need to send a certain snippet to every Tom I know.
This has really become relevant all of a sudden.
very interesting analysis! fully agree with what you're saying.
In my culture, Māori, the indigenous culture of Aotearoa, the themes of the lion king work more in line with kaitiakitanga, or stewards of the land, who's responsibilities lie in keeping a balance with the natural world as we would keep a spiritual, physical, and emotional balance.
as a kid i saw the ruin of the pride lands resulting more from a powerful leader (scar) abusing the environment, and restricting the autonomy of others to restore or care for it, by allowing the entire hyena population to have free range on the pride lands, resulting in the destruction of the land and the reduced quality of life for everyone in the pridelands- rather than "chosen one must be restored to power"
i think with such a strong film around the themes of finding your path, balance responsibilities with self discovery, that the lion king will always be applicable to many different way of being and believing in this world.
also, the te reo Māori version of the lion king elevates it so much and is, in my opinion, a better dub than the original!
Thanks for sharing your perspective! It’s so cool to see multiple analyses from different perspectives and cultures
The lion king was always my favorite Disney movie but I found it hard to let myself enjoy it once I got older. Since I'm white in America it feels shameful to enjoy the white supremacist narrative I in real life benefit from. I'm so overjoyed to learn that the heart of the film is enriched and even changed when viewed through the lens of your perspective. Not because it allows me personally to enjoy a guilty pleasure, since I'll never watch the lion king quite like you can, but because such a visually gorgeous and emotionally potent movie CAN be watched without white supremacy sullying it.
I did not know there was a dub of the Lion King in Te Reo Maori, but I think I have to go find it now!! Also I love your analysis of the Lion King!
Hi fellow kiwi!!
@@TwigCommenter kia ora, cuz!
What you said about paranoid readings really hit deep, given that I saw the thumbnail for this video in my recommendations and immediately went into defence mode. My stomach dropped and I wondered what I'd done to get antisemitic content on my front page. Then I decided to actually watch the video before passing judgment and discovered a brilliant, hilarious analysis of one of my favourite movies from my childhood that taught me a little bit more about approaching media with checked baggage! Fantastic job, subscribed and eager to watch the rest of your content!
Interesting to think it’s automatically “antisemitic” based on the thumbnail & title alone.
I don't know why I am thinking about the tunnel song right now.
"Dig a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel
Dig a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel
When it's done, you dig a bigger tunnel!
Dig, a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel
Dig a tunnel, dig, dig a tunnel
Quick, before the hyenas come!"
Well, why was Timone a meerkat in the first place? Simple. The design team created a dynamic duo where one character did most of the talking and became the center of nearly every scene he was in, where the other character mostly kept to the background, yet was pretty insightful when he chose to speak. Then the team balanced these personalities by giving Timone a small, agile form and Pumba a more physically inposing presence.
This dynamic is endlessly entertaining, and shows off both the greatest strengths and weaknesses of animal characters.
When designing a character in an animal based world, you end up picking animals that line up with your character's traits. Do you have a quick and clever protagonist? How about making them a fox? A fierce warrior? Try a tiger. A sweet girl usually becomes a rabbit.
Just like all character design, a well-chosen animal become a short-hand way for the writer to communicate a character's personality traits and, to an extent, their role in the story.
Some drawbacks of this method, as we see quite heavily in the Lion King sequels, is that family members have to all be one kind of animal. This forces a lot of characters into animals that don't exactly suit them the same way. Take Scar, for example. If he didn't have to be a lion because his family were lions, he might have been a viper, which would have matched the green aesthetic a lot better.
Tldr, the creators of the film decided to make the kings lions because their story had kings in it and lions fit the part. If the Lion King was a real world, then yes, it would be a strict species based hierarchy. But, because he's a tailor-made fictional character, Simba's species was dictated by his role.
Strangely enough, I actually recall hearing that Scar wasn't a lion in earlier drafts. Guess somewhere in production the filmmakers decided they wanted to make him an Evil Uncle character, which meant he had to be another lion.
I think that this line of thinking extrapolates in opposition of the fascist and biological racism critiques (which are still very much valid mind you). The lions are at the top of the circle of life, and they are at the top because they're lions. They're at the top because, in the real world, lions are apex predators. They're also at the top because they're kings and Disney fairy tales are often about royalty and medieval-renaissance era depictions of heroes or monarchy. Lions themselves are also traditional depictions of or symbols for royalty in the western world.
Lots of other decisions are like this too. The lions have dominion over the rest of the animals, which can be interpreted as biologically justified racism, but it can also be interpreted as mere retrofitting, where the story is about savanna animals, anthropomorphized, and the resonance between the two doesn't map 1:1 and the most objectionable elements of the humanizing are merely by products of the incongruities of humans and animals. Human races aren't literally different species, but it intuitively makes sense to depict the different species as different races (they're visually separable, they would necessarily have their own distinct communities and cultures, biological families would be mono-species etc) The hyenas are similar. All of the criticism directed at them for being a racist caricature of american black people is correct. But there's also the more superficial aspect to their existence. Hyenas exist, they're (literal) opportunistic scavengers, when we anthropomorphize these qualities we moralize them negatively, so they make sense resonantly as the villains, or at least malignant henchmen.
I think the two biggest questions are "how much does The Lion King read as a tacit endorsement of fascism versus an incidental depiction of fascism caused by allegorical imperfection?" and "regardless of the answer to the former, does it have real tangible power to stoke fascist sentiment in its viewers?".
@@tinfoilslacks3750 A third question would be, "Could you design anthropomorphic characters that don't, intentionally or unintentionally, fall into racial catagories?" And with that in mind, "Should we do it intentionally to stay on top of the narrative, or simply use the character's personality traits to dictate the animal they're portrayed as?"
@@allnonethevoid1487if you look at Timon and see a Jew or any other ethnicity or race in an animated character for that matter that says more about you than the character...he's just a funny African rat that's all....seek therapy.
Jesus Christ how did you people survive adolescence?!?
Timon and Pumba are a classic comedy trope of a straight man and a dimwit comic relief. It's a technic in Comedy that stretches back to Vaudeville all the way to our current day. Like Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, David Spade and Chris Farley, The Rock and Chris Hart!! Timon is the Straight guy and Pumba is the Dimwit. All that crap you just spat out is BS.
Stop overanalyzing stuff that's how people have Strokes. It's just Comedy retards laugh laugh LAUGH!!!!!
I often listen to your Great Gatsby essay and your "Is Voltron Still Bad?" essay when I'm feeling stressed because I find your manner of analysis both really engaging and really soothing, so to say I was thrilled when you uploaded a new critique video would be an UNDERSTATEMENT
This is one of the best video essays I’ve ever seen! I was shocked it had so few views. It deserves to have millions!
You're not the first essayist that killed this series for me but it always hurts. Feels like a knive in my childhood joy around The Lion King. Guess as a young black kid watching the movie. It made me felt seen. I could understand Simba's pain and grief his desire to just run away from his history. Seeking out found family. Grappling with the pain of making massive mistakes. This was the only movie that I grow up with that made Africa and it's wildlife seem beautiful. Especially in a world that treats Africans stories like a afterthought.
Shouldn't let someone's hot take and interpretation ruin something for you. If they see the animals as representations of others races and cultures that's on them.
I've yet to see a film analysis that looks at _The Lion King_ from black/African perspective and it's sorely needed. Not necessarily to redeem it from any of the other valid critiques that exist (this one included) but as you said, it's a story based in Africa and basically was *THE* black/African story (at least in popular Western culture) at least until _Black Panther._
@@poppyraima5342 from a non-American perspective it was SO weird to see Lion King the musical as a black culture celebration because none of it read as black to me my whole life (except maybe Rafiki), the voices and the narrative structure about a royal family felt entirely Eurocentric and specifically British, if anything.
Hello there! I'm black and african as well, and although I wasn't particularly into the lion king as a kid, I understand how you feel. I have plenty of shows and movies that I am a big fan of that have pretty disturbing messages or even downright offensive imagery, but they also have some good in them. Look, what you got from the movie is totally ok. that's the thing about art, you're allowed to interpret it how you feel and if it particularly speaks to you that's fine. You're allowed to resonate with the story while ackonwledging that some other aspects may not be as savoury when put it into certain context.
You can't grew up in a pigstail and not be covered in mud ever, all american media is colored by their cultural context that include the good and the bad. So the white supremacy that still influences American society to this day, will inevitable impact their media in one way or another. That doesn't mean you can't feel seen in any of the narratives they produce. Plus you can honestly dig up a unsavory interpretation of pretty much everything. All that matters is to keep an open mind.
But we can still enjoy the lion king franchise while acknowledging all that was wrong with it. At least within reason, we can take whatever we’re looking for from a comforting piece of media, as long as we can recognise the issues with it on a higher scale. Especially cause these are family movies. Sometimes it’s good and important to make an analysis like this, and sometimes it’s good and important to sit down and enjoy something you loved when you were younger
Haven't gone through the entire video yet (obviously, it's only been out for like ten minutes), but I just have to say that I love your ability to make me look at the films I loved as a child in totally new and transformative ways. While some things definitely can't be unseen or unheard, I don't think that's a bad thing. Sure, to some extend you "ruin" my childhood films, but then, I'm not a child anymore. All these new perspectives and ways of seeing the media I consume really give additional value to these films. They helped form my childhood, and now, through showing a different perspective, you are helping them form my adulthood, too.
You have a real talent for this.
Thanks for all the work you put it, I hope you continue for a long while to come!
Edit: Finished the video, and I do still stand by my point. Paranoid reading is definitely something I've done, and I didn’t even realize until you talked about it and I thought back to some of my own interpretations of certain media. That's definitely something I'm going to keep an eye on. So, yeah, thanks for pointing out!
Since your edit was hidden under the "read more..." the "Haven't gone through the entire video yet..." had me saying "oh, just wait!"
This honestly made me look at stories and their analysis- probably my single greatest passion- in a completely new light.
Thank you. Seriously.
"we can't digest grass we're grass intolerant" 13:25 can't believe you missed the obvious reference to how almost all of us jewish folk cant handle milk :,D
I’m a Jewish person who can digest milk, but half my family is lactose intolerant.
Why though?
@@thegnarledpirate9198 Gonna just come out and say genetics. Feels bad, but sometimes it just is.
@@thegnarledpirate9198 ironically yeah its genetics. has to due with how people in regions dependent on milk would end up either dying or slowly losing lactose intolerant genes across generations, and on the other side people in regions without as much a need of milk wont be as dependent and so by chance after generations the genes for it spread.
@@harrietamidala1691 same lol
I loved the video, I loved the little bits of chaos bopped throughout, and as I was watching this lovely analysis, I though - man, this is valid af, but also - it'd be hard (and possibly make for a worse story) to have animals break through the mold/change class etc etc. And thought about my role as a creator and figured - damn, sometimes u just gotta close your brain and write stories, otherwise - you wouldn't get nothing done.
And then you did the whole paranoid reading segment, which I did not expect, but greatly appreciated. I know you know that the concept's existence doesn't mean that the paranoid reading in question is invalid - just that this isn't the only "valid" one. Either way - I appreciate you letting other people know. A+
This comment really resonated with me, because I often struggle with that balance as a writer, where like…obviously you want to make an effort to be conscious of problematic tropes, but if you try to avoid every possible negative interpretation, all your characters become cardboard cutouts and your plot becomes a sort of meadow desktop background. I wish there was a perfect answer, or a guideline sheet I could follow to make sure my art won’t harm anyone-but I’ve really come to believe that’s not possible. I agree that sometimes you really do just have to turn that side of your brain off and write the dang story.
@@The_Sin_Squad I fully agree, approaching this from the perspective of being queer, even the stereotypes can be fun and worthwhile characters, because people *do* fit many of these stereotypes. Scar is unbelievably camp, he's gay coded to a degree that few characters are, but you can also find real people who really are that camp. Trying to avoid any and all stereotypical depictions leads to a flattening and deadening of the cultures and people being represented, and erasure and tacit admonishing of the people who really do look and act in those ways. At the same time, maybe don't only ever make the villain the super camp one, or have the camp heroic character (let's be honest, the comedy relief sidekick) be ineffectual.
edit: (then I watched the end of the video and realized that the video touches on this very line of thought, oops!)
As someone just barely into my first few weeks of uni, this video analysis is showing me a terrifying premonition on what spirals of metaphysical madness lie in store for me should I follow that siren song of intellectual curiosity off the edge of the map. I salute you with profound admiration and pay my deepest respect to the hours of your sanity sacrificed in the name of academic principles.
I hope you stop talking like that ❤ I know we had to pull out the thesaurus for this one bestie
I always saw this movie as one of the good direct-to-dvd Disney sequels. But given the context and the allegories between Jewish experiences in real life and Timon's arc in the film, I can see now that this may be one of the most highly underrated Disney films that isn't part of the main animated movie catalogue.
sure is convenient that Israel - you know, the actual example of racial supremacy, hierarchy, promised lands, ethnic pride, and paranoia - is left out of the conversation. Sin Squad can point fingers at others but conveniently absolves her own of fault.
42:32 This whole video is spectacular and an amazing video essay on not only the Lion King but just what it means to interpret media, but this bit is my favourite part just on the basis that it had me in stitches.
Gotta say I LOVE your editing too. No wonder this video took so long.
Also your interpretation of texts section is so excellently explained, the conflict of interpretations deserves my attention !
I have just looked up when Lion King II came out. I was 6 in 1998. I distinctly remember the line 'It's in your blood' making me immensely uncomfortable the first time I heard it... flying in the face of the way I had been taught to view the world. I was *6*!
Unless the meerkats do it then its fine. Its fine they get there own ethno-state and they're entitled to their own promised land (regardless of whoever may already be there) - hmmm....
This video has reminded me why we need other people in our lives; They challenge our perspectives and give different thoughts that we may not think of.
I think there's some things you discount in your analysis. The first is that Tim Rice, the lyricist for the original movie, has explicitly talked about how they are meant to be interpreted. "Circle of Life" is about "generations passing on the flame, one generation dying out and a new one taking over, and animals eating each other". In this interpretation, the "Circle of Life" isn't a cycle of oppression, but a generational cycle in which the failings of one generation must be addressed by the next. Mufasa neglected to deal with Scar and the hyenas, and then Scar destroys the pride lands, and it's up to Simba and his allies to correct those mistakes.
I also think you fall into the common ideological trap of ascribing literal and complicated systems of interaction to films that aren't meant to convey a message about the concepts you're addressing. This is the same reason a lot of people criticized the ending of *Steven Universe* for "redeeming space Hitlers" (i.e. letting the Diamonds get away with genocide). People assume that the exact, literal context of a piece of media, the systems demonstrated in it and the actions taken in it, are meant to be a rule of thumb for identical situations, when in reality the actual purpose of most media (but children's media in particular) is to convey an overarching *lesson* or *moral* on the individuals consuming it. The point of *Steven Universe* isn't to say that "if someone commits literal genocide, they should be forgiven", it's a story about accepting oneself, navigating that acceptance in the context of familial relationships, healing broken families, and escaping the cycle of abuse. Yet people still think that Steven should have executed the Diamonds on national TV because "they're literally space Hitlers".
Your analysis, I feel, steps dangerously close to a similar sentiment. The purpose of the Lion King is not to say that "this is how real nature works", or "this is the ideal social structure", it's to create a world in which the main moral lesson of the story and the characters' journey can be taught, while keeping audiences engaged in learning that moral lesson. In the case of the Lion King, the purpose of the film is (as the creators of the film have said) to demonstrate that no matter what you think of an individual or how they appear, everyone is valuable to society. It's also about fulfilling ones duties and responsibilities to society (as indicated by Simba's character arc).
There are certainly things to criticize about some of the films messaging, and it's perfectly fine to disagree with the way in which it presents that messaging. But you're pulling out an encyclopedia to critique every minute detail of the world in which the story of the Lion King is told, when realistically any critical analyst of media or fiction must indulge in a modicum of suspension of disbelief in order to effectively engage with a work.
I don’t know about that. It seemed to me that Scar’s rise to power was a derailment of the circle of life, which Simba restored by taking his rightful place. You can say that the focus of the movie is the injustice and conflict between Scar and Simba, not on preaching natural hierarchy, but it still does preach natural hierarchy, and you can’t just dismiss that.
Plus, if the creators intended to show that everyone is important in the circle of life, then they did a pretty poor job including the hyenas, poor low-life outcasts who can only endanger the system and must be controlled. What Lion King is good at is telling a narrative of natural hierarchy by comparing social groups to animals.
Plus it isn’t about what the creators intentions were, it’s about what we got.
@@ernestwinston8851 There's a time and a place for "Death of the Author" analysis but flagrantly discounting their intentions has never been what that literary analysis technique has been meant for. I find it more useful as a way of indicating how well a piece of media does in actually conveying a message the author claims it does.
Case in point is literally everything J.K. Rowling has said about Harry Potter in the past decade. She CLAIMS the series carries an inherently anti-racist, anti-fascist message, but there are such a huge number of elements that contradict those themes that it makes what the author's intent was irrelevant.
On the flip side, you can't apply the same logic to, for example, the works of H.P. Lovecraft. You can't claim that Lovecraft's intent behind his stories was "irrelevant" to the context of his stories, because many of them are overtly racist and MUST be analyzed in that context.
Yeah, but... you deal with that family and community survival stuff by hanging the space Nazis, because ideally space Hitler did the job for you and heroically broke into the space bunker to kill space Hitler and his space wife. You heal with your loved ones by enacting unfeeling iron justice on the top of a pyramid. You only destroy vacuous Jorbson Lobsterson hierarchies by guillotining the tops of the pyramids and making the cowardly middle aware of being spared. Bismuth was always right. The Breaking Point was Madame Guillotine, and always should have been a mass-produced peasant weapon that could slay false gods.
this is an overcomplicated way of saying "its not that deep"
I love that you touch on the heurmanutical circle! It’s a way of thinking about how we engage with any piece of media. And while the words to express it might ask a lot of the reader, we do this instinctually whenever we relate ourselves to a narrative. It’s all about how many times we go around the circle and how deep we go each time.
Completely lost it at that cup eating scene
I haven’t watched the video yet but I do have a weird memory with this movie. The first time I stayed up all night as a kid I was afraid to wake my family up getting movies so I just watched this movie like 8 times in a row. Im sure I’ll love the video
Yea it was good
this is the best video essay ever. as I realized it was over I was practically trying to reach through the screen begging you not to go as I felt unresolved and spun around the cycle as you intended. extremely immersive experience 10/10.
this is honestly funny as fuck and it's incredibly thought provoking and it's making me rethink more movies now which is really fun. Thank you for making this.
Me too, like putting the glasses on from "they live"
the simba coloring moment was so real, from the mumble singing to meowing. true art
This is literally what I come to UA-cam for. Seeing beloved media re-evaluated through a new (to me) lens, giving me a new understanding of other people’s experiences.
holy shit that Paranoid reading part was so interesting! I definitely see that in fandom. Reminds me of Sarah Schulman's Conflict Is Not Abuse -book. It's not about media but like society, community and collective trauma
i was skeptical at first but i'm glad i stuck it out to the end. fantastic video, you've definitely given me a lot to think about
this is genuinely one of the most interesting youtube essays i’ve ever watched 😭 usually i just have them on in the background while i draw, but i found myself stopping to listen way more than i usually would - really great job!!!
I know you've been working on this one for...over a year? I feel like that's right? Congrats on seeing it uploaded.
Two words to describe this video: pondering and laughing; your editing skills keep getting better. Despite growing up in a pretty non religious household my dad always made time to teach me things about Judaism, especially around Hanukkah. Any time I had questions he was always receptive too. Yiddish lexicon was freely used around our household and my paternal grandma was definitely a Yiddishie mama. The fact that I never looked at this film with a Jewish lens...wow. Lots "oh huh, okay, that tracks" and "...ohh, yikes".
Side question: what did that mug taste like lol? I feel like I've only seen ONE person take up their pencil and try to make a non-monarchical lion king verse post tlk2. It hasn't been fully fleshed out yet, but I can point you in that direction if you're interested. Definitely feel that feel of looking/thinking at a piece of art sometimes and feeling as though you're committing violence against the text. If it gets to that point I usually can separate the art and my feelings/thoughts, but it takes a while.
Your professor has me laughing! I'm sorry you had to go through that though. You would think someone could tell you were being a silly-billy, but c'est la vie.
I'm sorry hbomberguy's oof video, this is now my favorite deranged video essay.
36:00 I never thought of Doodlebob as a comment on how art can say things you don't intend...THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! I HAVE TO REWATCH THE EPISODE WITH THAT IN MIND!!!
I used to re-watch Lion King 1 1/2 hundreds of times as a kid, thank you for this new context to put it in.
thank you so much for posting. Don't worry that much about regular updates, you made the long wait totally worth it and it's unreasonable to expect ND creators to be on the top of their game all of the time.
This has nothing to do with the content but I love your voice and delivery. It's full of life, engaging and dripping with clever deliveries.
I spent last semester taking a holocaust course, learning a lot about Jewish oppression and the rise of Nazism in Germany and other parts of Europe...and this sorta viewpoint on stuff like the Lion King really clicks with my mind a lot more now.
I feel like it's probably just a bad idea in general to use actual animal species as stand-ins for human groups since we know what nature is like in reality: there's a hierarchy to nature, some animals are closer to sapience than others, some need to die for others to thrive, and trying to connect these themes as parallels to human groups is just asking for trouble.
I think sort of indirectly tackling these sorts of social and economic problems is far easier to do in fantasy or sci-fi since you can create races or cultures that the audience has no prior knowledge of. It's not fool-proof, but I've seen parallels to human groups done far better in genres like those as opposed to using real animals.
Don't you have real subjects in school instead of about a single group that vastly over-represents the upper class?
But that’s not what they did. At least, that’s not what they did with the original lion king. In lion king 3, they basically just made the meerkats jewish as a tongue in cheek joke. Compare that to something like zootopia, where the whole thing is a racial allegory with a very clear, applicable message.
I watched 1 1/2 so much as a kid on DVD, it's nice to see it get some attention from video essayists. I also never heard of a paranoid reading before this video, but it seems to explain why people make the analyses they do about certain topics and situations.
I’ve watched this UA-cam video at least three times and every single time I watch it I forget that I’ve watched it. I only realize that I seen it already at the end when it just fall apart into madness. I can’t keep doing this to myself.
this is just amazing. I watch video essays all the time like it's my job and this is one of the best I've EVER seen. I know you struggled LOL but it left me feeling ironically enough a lot better about the way I engage with media. also I don't know why but the "it shook hunk" clip took me OUT
i love the cultural analysis of this video combined with just the sudden whiplash of an absolutely deranged gag at the end of some deeply profound statement. you coloring simba was the exact thing my brain needed after sitting through the past 49 minutes of violent analysis.
these youtube titles gettin wild
This video's editting and your humour are UNGODLY GOOD (no offense intended) totally worth the wait!
if you like this type of humor, you should definitely watch some marvel movies lmao
@@Bradenvr yeah, they do be painfully unfunny and repetitive like this video
I think the drought was more a reference to the old idea that: If the king was right with God the land would prosper, if he wasn’t, the land would wither and die. Scar has gross mismanagement that he wanted over hunting, and over hunted things til it was gone. Not to say all this stuff isn’t also in there and you don’t even have to think about it that hard to see it’s there.
The editing in this is absolutely fantastic, along with your sense of humor and the overall sense of madness in this video XD
"It's about the symbolism Tom!" Feels like a Starkid musicals bit