RGB makes a really big difference IMO. It's so nice to be able to clearly see each individual pixel in a sprite. And the added colour vibrancy is stunning :) . Haha, I shot, edited and uploaded this vid twice before I was happy with it. It was really tricky to accurately capture and give a sense of what is seen with the naked eye. It's good to hear people like what they see. Cheers, Luke!
In my opinion this is vital for arcade emulation. It brings the low res graphics to a whole another level of quality! If i look to some antialiasing experiments which produce right the opposite result, this looks way better even it cannot produce the bleeding and brightness of a real CRT.
At around 10:05 is a great showcase of what some clever developers have done to create more depth/3d-looking effects, knowing the scanlines are to be there(via CRT's in those days). Some 16bit games like Undead Line on Sega Genesis show this effect quite well. With scanlines off, it looks very 2D with no depth. With scanlines, it looks 3d-ish, and really helps the bird's eye view look really smooth as you move around. Arcade vibes through and through! Awesome video!
You know, I was actually thinking about arcade cabinets and the scan lines they had. I really never thought about it. I just knew games tended to look better in the cabinets than anywhere else I've seen them. I just figured it was just my mind embellishing. Thanks for sharing another great video.
I can see the appeal of doing this for images with up to 240 lines of actual resolution and line doubling, but if you feed 480 line signal through a scanline generator, you're effectively killing almost half the detail - not good. Also i think these scanline generators are missing some luma boost circuitry, that could be very helpful.
Thanks. I actually bought the scaler, SLG and Sync Strike after seeing your vids, haha. I linked to your channel in the description so anyone looking for more in depth explanation can check out your vids. You do a much better job of explaining the technical side of things when it comes to these devices. The console I was really surprised with was the Wii. In a 4:3 ratio at 480p + scanlines it looks great! Games like HOTD Overkill, Mario Kart and A Boy And His Blob seem to benefit nicely.
It looks great on 15kHz 240p stuff, but high-resolution 480P games like DOA never had visible scanlines (and neither do Naomi arcade monitors) so the gadget is making it less defined. Look at the bottom of the white garment on DOA (10:02). There's a 4 pixel slant on the normal VGA output, there's only 2 pixels with the scaline generator as it's over-written every other line of genuine detail with a black line. So the illusion of more detail is actually a reduction in detail by 50%.
Great vid man, I bought one for my arcade machine since I replaced my monitor with 24inch led screen and slg3000 works awesome and picture is 10X better then before, slg3000 rocks
Mohnish Thanks! I really appreciate that. Nowadays, I really like these sorts of videos. I might attempt something like the videos I did back in the day, eventually.
I make my own SLG and VGAbox, the Dreamcast look awesome on a CRT monitor. i still tried to figure out to make SL for other consoles like Genesis o Saturn. Great channel dude!
thats very nice indeed. this coul be the answer to one of my only remaining woes with regards to my set up.. i just dont have space for a CRT, much as i know the older stuff would look so much better on one. Thats pretty awesome that it can be connected to so many different leads.
Very nice explanation of what is now a legendary retro device. :-) It's probably worth underlining that this device is "best suited" to games that were natively designed for 240p output, which is predominantly 2D stuff. Most 3D (480i and 480p) video is best displayed at either 480i or 480p. Proper hi-res stuff (480p) shouldn't really have scanlines, but some people may prefer this effect. Personally I try to recreate the original look.
Positive about that. I tested many times on my tv set 40" Sony LCD and the result in my opinion is very good, light scanline effect, very nice and smooth.
I didn't know that about the PS3, that's kinda surprising. I have the VGA cable for 360 but haven't got around to testing it with the SLG yet. I hear it's very good for shooters like Deathsmiles and retro ports like you mentioned.
I am late to this party, but I am almost sure that at some point in future a company will produce TFTs with baked in scanlines and some distance between pixels.
It makes sense to add scanlines to old 240p games, so they are displayed as close as possible to the original system and TV setups. But 480i/p games like DOA2, and 90% of Dreamcast/PS2 catalog were meant to be displayed best in progressive displays, so adding scanlines to them is like adding Mercedes Benz headlights to a Wolkswagen, one might like it, but they were not meant to be there. Also, adding scanlines in an LCD display makes you loose a LOT of screen brightness as it effectively turns off half of the screen pixels. Which sucks!
Yes but with the DC many games are arcade perfect ports, and if you know anything about arcade gaming, its that scanlines are very much a part of the experience. So it can very much be a purist move to use scanlines with arcade ports on the DC
Getting your settings just right is a big part of it I think. The default settings on most screens are generally crap and normally optimised for store display or unrealistic scenarios. Spending an hour or two testing and tweaking things can make a massive difference IMO. Everyone sees things slightly different and also have varying levels of eyesight. Scanlines can have the effect of crisping up text :)
Now that's funny timing. I got an email notification of your comment here just minutes after I finished building/testing my SCART->VGA rig with scanlines. And yeah.. very, very nice picture. And the scanlines make things much crisper. I'll have a video up of my own setup some time soon, I built most of the parts from scratch (save the upscaler, obviously lol)
Basically yes. You'll need to use it in conjunction with a line doubler/scaler for some systems. Dreamcast outputs a 480p VGA signal so doesn't require any extra hardware.
That's maybe got more to do with my camera's white balance compensating for the switching. If it looks too dark with scalines then you can just adjust your TV's backlight, contrast and brightness settings.
It'll definitely help but the DC is well known for having a very distinct sounding and noisy drive regardless. I use a good quality bike grease on mine. But any light mechanical grease is fine :) . Just don't use too much :P
I tried playing emulators and I always had fun but something was missing. I don't know, it just didn't feel right. I wondered if maybe it was because I wasn't using the original controllers but that wasn't it. Scanlines made everything so much more authentic. Without the scanlines filter it looks flat and without any depth.
honeypower Emulators nowadays also have CRT filters. The best one is RetroArch's new CRT Royale shader. It's highly customizable, and is the closest I've seen to emulating an actual CRT look, with settings to adjust the scanlines, color bleed, bloom, glass refraction, anti-aliasing, etc.
Haha, it's great you can now pick up quality devices like a B&O telly for so cheap. I got myself a really nice late model CRT Sony Trinitron for £25 a few years back. I still use it for hooking up my MVS board. Lovely! :)
It really varies game to game. Some look better without it, and some with. One thing I've noticed is text clarity always seems to benefit from scanlines. I've never seen the official DC VGA box either. I assume it must be pretty rare. It's odd because SEGA went to the trouble of marking "VGA Compatible" on the back of many games. You'd think they'd have promoted the peripheral itself a little harder.
In the not too distant future sourcing good quality, working, CRTs is going to get pretty challenging. I've noticed it becoming much less common to find them discarded at the side of the road or cheap on ebay. It seems like many of them have already found their way to landfill.
it looks dark because he was showing you what they look like close-up.. dont worry at a normal distance it will look fantastic :) and if its still too dark, apart from the tv settings, you can also slightly lower the scanline intensity.. I find slightly increasing Gama (if your tv has the option) works wonders :) believe it.. for retro, scanlines are a must ;)
A good quality LCD is a much better all-rounder IMO. You get much more control over the image, far more inputs, less power consumption and require less space. Something like this SLG is just the icing on the cake for me! I still have a nice CRT but to be totally honest much prefer my LCD these days (sacrilege?) :P
This is true. If you hook up a retro system using RGB Scart or VGA then it looks great regardless. Some games benefit more than others and it also depends on how close you sit/stand to the TV etc. I don't bother using it with my Mega Drive for this reason. But the Dreamcast just looks so damn sexy with scanlines! xD
Thanks :) . A quality Sony PVM looks like the optimum solution for getting the most out of these old systems :) . Imagine a wall of stacked PVMs! One for each console :P
I'd do the same if I had room for a cab! :P SLG has been one of the best investments in my setup so far! :). I'm amazed how good the Wii looks running through one. It's like a different console. Great for the emus!
I thought I was crazy for keeping my old CRT but older games just look better on them, now I know why all the HD re-releases look kinda off and blotchy
Thanks :) . There are other devices like the XRGB-mini that do a better job + are an all-in-one solution. But those can get pretty damn expensive. The SLG is a very nice little low budget alternative :) . I definitely think everyone who has a Dreamcast should own a VGA box! Makes games looks amazing :)
You're new to the Dreamcast, so it may appear to be noisy to you. But to me, hearing the "noise" of the DC disc drive certainly has a Pavlovian effect of awesomeness. Everytime I hear a Dreamcast fire up, whether in the same room, or on a video, it makes me want to get my Dreamcast fix on. Someday Tom... you will know what I mean.
Sounds cool. On some consoles and games I like the clean blocky look better. On others I prefer the scanlines. It's all down to personal preference I suppose. It's nice to have the option though :)
Yeah games like DoA aren't as noticeable. I generally turn the scanlines down so they aren't as intense for those games. It does however add a little extra depth and the menus/text really benefit from it.
It's all down to personal preference but the scanlines are used to emulate a 15khz display on something higher (31khz). Games that natively run at 31khz (640x480) like Dead or Alive 2 and Jet Set Radio in theory you're half-ing the resolution. The Megadrive and games like Street Fighter Alpha 3 which natively run at 15khz but are scaled to 640x480 (31khz) look much better with scanlines because of it emulating the lower resolution by blanking (half) lines, just like a low-res monitor would.
Most old-school consoles didn't support true interlaced video - they "tricked" the video system into displaying ONLY one field of video instead of the normal alternating video (even/odd lines) - resulting in true 60HZ play (and the reason for the warning about projection TV's - which often couldn't handle the increased actual frame rate). This is the normal reason for these black scan lines on many TV's
actually the black lines are the result of how the electron guns in a CRT draw the image on the screen...by drawing one line at a time. But most old school consoles had a progressive resolution of 240p, and 480i only became a thing with the 5th gen, which was abandoned for 480p in the 6th Gen with the Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox supporting 480p video and up.
***** But with 480i (or 576i or 405 or whatever), the lines are so close together that it's very difficult, sometimes impossible, to see the lines. With 240p or whatever, the electron gun only lights up half of the space as usual, and it does so twice as fast as it doesn't have to light the space for the other field. So you get black lines where, usually, the other field would be. Starting with the 6th gen, consoles started outputting true 480i instead of 240p on a regular basis. And that's when the scan line effect disappeared.
Do you know anything that replicates the blur effect that the arcade games from the 80's & early-mid 90's using CRT monitors had? I have a supergun that I use to play my arcade boards on my CRT TV but the blur effect seen on arcade monitors is of course missing. The SLG 3000 would help with the scanlines, but my TV only has composite inputs. Still I would love to get that blur effect.
What an interesting little gizmo! I bet it has made a real difference to your games, is it just me or do LCDs (and some CRTs too) seem to make the picture TOO bright? I do have poor eyesight so when I get very close to read small text I notice just the effect your video demonstrates! If I had this SLG thingy it may make it easier for me to read. I saw a Sony Trinitron widescreen set fully working left out in the rain which sucked! If only I had got to it sooner!
It's much better in person. I wish I could properly show people, haha. Yeah, CRT's wont last forever so it's good that there are cheap solutions like the SLG :)
I have the Mini SLG and it has color distortion issues when turned on I assume because it takes power from your scaler or whatever you have plugged into it
Nice explanation of the SLG-3000.. I have one and am really pleased with it. Got it mainly for garou mark of the wolves and sonic CD on the 360 and anything else retro for that matter :) I was also really wanting to use it for PS3 but pal PS3s dont even do a 640x480 signal! the lowest it goes is 576i/p (@50hz to boot!!) how silly is that? :(
What you say is absolutely true.. but there is also the issue of space and convenience :) Sometimes its nice and tidier to have everything all on the one setup
Light guns are never compatible with LCD TVs (if that's what you mean?). But I guess if you were to use the SLG on a CRT then it wouldn't cause a compatibility issue for gun games.
I’m confused... Is this scanline generator intended for monitors that use VGA connector for its component (YPbPr) vídeo connection? Or is it only for VGA signals? Do I need an adaptor to covert VGA to component? I want to use this for my PS2 on my LCD TV with component inputs.
beharius on assemblergames forums is selling a Dreamcast VGA box with scanliner feature built in (he calls it the Hanzo). Just an alternative if you like scanlines, personally I prefer jaggies.
I always play retro games on a small 14 inch crt tv, so i don't really see the scanline spaces, the beam is too thick to leave gaps. on a bigger tv on the other hand, like 20 inches or if you stand really close to the action like with an arcade cabinet it's more distinct. i have never seen scanlines as the biggest difference between crt and lcd tvs, it's something else. for me maybe it's more about the colors, lack of lag, that there's no native resolutions and the analog "feel" of it.
Any chance you can provide a video capture sample of what the scanlines look like? Not filming the screen but actually captured video of it? I'm trying to track down anything with what it would look like captured and so far no luck.
In my opinion, the picture on a CRT computer monitor looks better than this. I understand the convenience of having all of your consoles hooked up to one TV, but for me, it makes more sense to have an HDTV for modern consoles and a nice CRT for retro games. I don't see any reason to buy a device that simulates the real thing when I could just use the real thing itself.
I was surprised at this also.. they do act like a fake anti-aliasing filter on those 480p games. But dont forget these games go through quite a bit of upscaling on modern LCDs so some of the pixelization could be a result of that.. I'm thinking that they would probably look superb on a progressive arcade monitor or crt though. AKA native 31khz on a crt would probably look just fine. If you've ever seen a naomi cab up close you'll know what I'm on about ;)
Looks great up close, but then every time I start playing it actually looks worse than normal. I've tinkered with all different types of emulators and custom shaders, changing scanline size and opacity etc and still get this problem. Anyone else get this?
Emulator filters are shit. Any 10$ CRT PC monitor can do scanlines when fed with a 240p signal. All you need is the right programs and settings to make it happen.
@@gamephreak5 Yes it does but it's not easy to get them right, the average user will probably slap a preset and be cool with it while pixel perfect resolution, original aspect ratio and smooth scrolling are distant priorities.
Retrogametech, just bought a dreamcast and loving every minute. It makes a fair noise when reading discs. I assume that if I opened it up and greased its cogs and lazer running track it might help, but what grease would you advise?
Awesome vid man, was arguing this on a small IRC channel / website we have dedicated to retro games - this video proved my point - let me know if you ever would like to hop on! Will be glad to send an invite!
Haha, you been taking a YT break? Not seen you about much lately. It's all very subjective I suppose. Some people love them, some hate them. For DC and Wii I think they look amazing. MD, MS and Saturn, I'm not so fussed. But I'm going to make a comparison vid for the Wii and GC because they look so much better! The Wii is like a whole new console using it. You can buy or make enclosures for all the parts to keep it tidy. You can also get a pre-built all-in-one unit if you're lazy :)
does using all those different input changing cards add any noticable input lag? also you might be able to get a nicer looking picture without the slg by adding more contrast and turning down the brightness, i can agree the scanlines do make it look better, but so could messing with some settings on your tv. it mostly just looks like a darker more contrasted image, with some scanlines.
If you are using the SLG, Scaler and Sync Strike for another console (such as your Megadrive) do you need to run a separate audio lead for the sound? I don't have a Dreamcast (yet) but I'd like to try this with a few other old consoles I have. Thanks.
i realize this is old but for you or anyone else reading, the Sync Strike separates out the audio so SCART or Component into the Sync Strike (depending on which model Sync Strike you purchase UNLESS you buy the "SLG In-A-Box" which has SCART, VGA pass through, and Component inputs as well as the CGA2VGA scaler and the SLG3000 all in one). I'm getting one for christmas to use with my N64 and dreamcast.
wasn't the Dreamcast a 480p console for the most part? If I am correct most games run at a 480i or 480p render so why would scan lines be needed if this console doesn't out at a 240i or 240p resolution?
Would this work on with a NES on a modern HD TV? At the minute when i try to play a game, the screen becomes heavily pixelated and hard to see whats on the screen.
Does the dreamcast VGA box work with games that are not VGA compatible cause some games I get an error message about av cable when using vga hd cables.
An X-RGB is better, but also much more expensive. The X-RGB adds scanlines, but it also converts the image to progressive. A lot of techniques using scanlines were used to make shadows appear transparent or things like that. If you want a real "CRT" look, you should go for the X-RGB. But, obviously, for the price, the SLG is really good and if having scanlines is the only thing you want, it's good enough.
RGB makes a really big difference IMO. It's so nice to be able to clearly see each individual pixel in a sprite. And the added colour vibrancy is stunning :) .
Haha, I shot, edited and uploaded this vid twice before I was happy with it. It was really tricky to accurately capture and give a sense of what is seen with the naked eye. It's good to hear people like what they see. Cheers, Luke!
In my opinion this is vital for arcade emulation. It brings the low res graphics to a whole another level of quality! If i look to some antialiasing experiments which produce right the opposite result, this looks way better even it cannot produce the bleeding and brightness of a real CRT.
At around 10:05 is a great showcase of what some clever developers have done to create more depth/3d-looking effects, knowing the scanlines are to be there(via CRT's in those days).
Some 16bit games like Undead Line on Sega Genesis show this effect quite well. With scanlines off, it looks very 2D with no depth. With scanlines, it looks 3d-ish, and really helps the bird's eye view look really smooth as you move around. Arcade vibes through and through!
Awesome video!
You know, I was actually thinking about arcade cabinets and the scan lines they had. I really never thought about it. I just knew games tended to look better in the cabinets than anywhere else I've seen them. I just figured it was just my mind embellishing.
Thanks for sharing another great video.
I can see the appeal of doing this for images with up to 240 lines of actual resolution and line doubling, but if you feed 480 line signal through a scanline generator, you're effectively killing almost half the detail - not good.
Also i think these scanline generators are missing some luma boost circuitry, that could be very helpful.
Excelent overview, everything I needed to know is included in this video! I'll buy it today.
Thanks. I actually bought the scaler, SLG and Sync Strike after seeing your vids, haha. I linked to your channel in the description so anyone looking for more in depth explanation can check out your vids. You do a much better job of explaining the technical side of things when it comes to these devices.
The console I was really surprised with was the Wii. In a 4:3 ratio at 480p + scanlines it looks great! Games like HOTD Overkill, Mario Kart and A Boy And His Blob seem to benefit nicely.
The scanlines basically cuts off half of every pixel. The black space left behind makes it look less blocky because your brain fills in the rest.
It looks great on 15kHz 240p stuff, but high-resolution 480P games like DOA never had visible scanlines (and neither do Naomi arcade monitors) so the gadget is making it less defined.
Look at the bottom of the white garment on DOA (10:02). There's a 4 pixel slant on the normal VGA output, there's only 2 pixels with the scaline generator as it's over-written every other line of genuine detail with a black line. So the illusion of more detail is actually a reduction in detail by 50%.
Great vid man, I bought one for my arcade machine since I replaced my monitor with 24inch led screen and slg3000 works awesome and picture is 10X better then before, slg3000 rocks
Great video! I like how you show everything close-up and demonstrate the results hands-on.
Looks nice and great technical explanations of how these work.
I love this sort of dedication. And I never knew how much I needed scanlines in my life. Wonderful!
Ebeeto!! I remember laughing at your videos since Yogi bear back in school!!!
Mohnish Thanks! I really appreciate that. Nowadays, I really like these sorts of videos.
I might attempt something like the videos I did back in the day, eventually.
I make my own SLG and VGAbox, the Dreamcast look awesome on a CRT monitor. i still tried to figure out to make SL for other consoles like Genesis o Saturn.
Great channel dude!
Agreed. The traditional 2D games like Street Fighter or shooters like Giga Wing definitely benefit.
thats very nice indeed. this coul be the answer to one of my only remaining woes with regards to my set up.. i just dont have space for a CRT, much as i know the older stuff would look so much better on one. Thats pretty awesome that it can be connected to so many different leads.
Very nice explanation of what is now a legendary retro device. :-)
It's probably worth underlining that this device is "best suited" to games that were natively designed for 240p output, which is predominantly 2D stuff. Most 3D (480i and 480p) video is best displayed at either 480i or 480p. Proper hi-res stuff (480p) shouldn't really have scanlines, but some people may prefer this effect. Personally I try to recreate the original look.
Positive about that. I tested many times on my tv set 40" Sony LCD and the result in my opinion is very good, light scanline effect, very nice and smooth.
I didn't know that about the PS3, that's kinda surprising. I have the VGA cable for 360 but haven't got around to testing it with the SLG yet. I hear it's very good for shooters like Deathsmiles and retro ports like you mentioned.
I am late to this party, but I am almost sure that at some point in future a company will produce TFTs with baked in scanlines and some distance between pixels.
It makes sense to add scanlines to old 240p games, so they are displayed as close as possible to the original system and TV setups. But 480i/p games like DOA2, and 90% of Dreamcast/PS2 catalog were meant to be displayed best in progressive displays, so adding scanlines to them is like adding Mercedes Benz headlights to a Wolkswagen, one might like it, but they were not meant to be there.
Also, adding scanlines in an LCD display makes you loose a LOT of screen brightness as it effectively turns off half of the screen pixels. Which sucks!
Roberto Merino Completely agree
Yes but with the DC many games are arcade perfect ports, and if you know anything about arcade gaming, its that scanlines are very much a part of the experience. So it can very much be a purist move to use scanlines with arcade ports on the DC
On PAL systems DOA2 on the PS2 automatically has scanlines in 60hz mode and it looks much better and smoother.
Jet Diamond EXACTLY I am old enough to know 3D arcade games in the 1990's had scanlines
Getting your settings just right is a big part of it I think. The default settings on most screens are generally crap and normally optimised for store display or unrealistic scenarios. Spending an hour or two testing and tweaking things can make a massive difference IMO. Everyone sees things slightly different and also have varying levels of eyesight. Scanlines can have the effect of crisping up text :)
Great little piece of hardware. Never leaves My LCD. It's an excellent alternative when you really don't have space for a large CRT.
Now that's funny timing. I got an email notification of your comment here just minutes after I finished building/testing my SCART->VGA rig with scanlines. And yeah.. very, very nice picture. And the scanlines make things much crisper. I'll have a video up of my own setup some time soon, I built most of the parts from scratch (save the upscaler, obviously lol)
very good explanation and showing off the scanlines martin =)
Basically yes. You'll need to use it in conjunction with a line doubler/scaler for some systems. Dreamcast outputs a 480p VGA signal so doesn't require any extra hardware.
That's maybe got more to do with my camera's white balance compensating for the switching. If it looks too dark with scalines then you can just adjust your TV's backlight, contrast and brightness settings.
It'll definitely help but the DC is well known for having a very distinct sounding and noisy drive regardless. I use a good quality bike grease on mine. But any light mechanical grease is fine :) . Just don't use too much :P
I tried playing emulators and I always had fun but something was missing. I don't know, it just didn't feel right. I wondered if maybe it was because I wasn't using the original controllers but that wasn't it. Scanlines made everything so much more authentic. Without the scanlines filter it looks flat and without any depth.
A lot of emulators have scan line filters. But old games will always look best with the original console and a CRT tv imo.
honeypower I like to play with the original controllers, but the thing that makes my OCD go through the roof is the black bars on the sides.
LuisLEONFC73 hah I agree, you can stretch to full screen but it never usually looks good
honeypower
Emulators nowadays also have CRT filters. The best one is RetroArch's new CRT Royale shader. It's highly customizable, and is the closest I've seen to emulating an actual CRT look, with settings to adjust the scanlines, color bleed, bloom, glass refraction, anti-aliasing, etc.
*****
Is that like the "TV mode" filter? Or is it better? Which emulators feature it?
Haha, it's great you can now pick up quality devices like a B&O telly for so cheap. I got myself a really nice late model CRT Sony Trinitron for £25 a few years back. I still use it for hooking up my MVS board. Lovely! :)
It really varies game to game. Some look better without it, and some with. One thing I've noticed is text clarity always seems to benefit from scanlines.
I've never seen the official DC VGA box either. I assume it must be pretty rare. It's odd because SEGA went to the trouble of marking "VGA Compatible" on the back of many games. You'd think they'd have promoted the peripheral itself a little harder.
In the not too distant future sourcing good quality, working, CRTs is going to get pretty challenging. I've noticed it becoming much less common to find them discarded at the side of the road or cheap on ebay. It seems like many of them have already found their way to landfill.
it looks dark because he was showing you what they look like close-up.. dont worry at a normal distance it will look fantastic :) and if its still too dark, apart from the tv settings, you can also slightly lower the scanline intensity.. I find slightly increasing Gama (if your tv has the option) works wonders :)
believe it.. for retro, scanlines are a must ;)
Technically that may be so, but in person, to my eye and on my TV, DOA and similar games just look better with a light scanline effect.
A good quality LCD is a much better all-rounder IMO. You get much more control over the image, far more inputs, less power consumption and require less space. Something like this SLG is just the icing on the cake for me! I still have a nice CRT but to be totally honest much prefer my LCD these days (sacrilege?) :P
kasumi the scanline beauty O_O
This is true. If you hook up a retro system using RGB Scart or VGA then it looks great regardless. Some games benefit more than others and it also depends on how close you sit/stand to the TV etc. I don't bother using it with my Mega Drive for this reason. But the Dreamcast just looks so damn sexy with scanlines! xD
It defiantly gives that anti aliasing effect. It also seems to do better with the more pixelly games.
Thanks :) . A quality Sony PVM looks like the optimum solution for getting the most out of these old systems :) . Imagine a wall of stacked PVMs! One for each console :P
I'd do the same if I had room for a cab! :P SLG has been one of the best investments in my setup so far! :). I'm amazed how good the Wii looks running through one. It's like a different console. Great for the emus!
Just fired up my Dreamcast through RGB with a scanline generator for the first time a few minutes ago.. bloody hell, lol. Very pretty.
There are certain effects/characteristics an arcade CRT has which aren't recreated on an LCD (by default). Scalines are one of them :) .
Very nice man! never knew about this thing. I might try to pick one up soon.
I thought I was crazy for keeping my old CRT but older games just look better on them, now I know why all the HD re-releases look kinda off and blotchy
Thanks :) . There are other devices like the XRGB-mini that do a better job + are an all-in-one solution. But those can get pretty damn expensive. The SLG is a very nice little low budget alternative :) .
I definitely think everyone who has a Dreamcast should own a VGA box! Makes games looks amazing :)
You're new to the Dreamcast, so it may appear to be noisy to you.
But to me, hearing the "noise" of the DC disc drive certainly has a Pavlovian effect of awesomeness. Everytime I hear a Dreamcast fire up, whether in the same room, or on a video, it makes me want to get my Dreamcast fix on. Someday Tom... you will know what I mean.
Best demo of this I've seen so far. I use a Sony PVM , but this impressed me and looks to be worth picking up.
Sounds cool. On some consoles and games I like the clean blocky look better. On others I prefer the scanlines. It's all down to personal preference I suppose. It's nice to have the option though :)
Yeah games like DoA aren't as noticeable. I generally turn the scanlines down so they aren't as intense for those games. It does however add a little extra depth and the menus/text really benefit from it.
It's all down to personal preference but the scanlines are used to emulate a 15khz display on something higher (31khz). Games that natively run at 31khz (640x480) like Dead or Alive 2 and Jet Set Radio in theory you're half-ing the resolution. The Megadrive and games like Street Fighter Alpha 3 which natively run at 15khz but are scaled to 640x480 (31khz) look much better with scanlines because of it emulating the lower resolution by blanking (half) lines, just like a low-res monitor would.
It really gives 2D games a nice arcady look :D . Thanks for watching!
Thanks, dude! Sadly we can't all have arcade cabs in our houses! :P But this is a very nice alternative :)
Most old-school consoles didn't support true interlaced video - they "tricked" the video system into displaying ONLY one field of video instead of the normal alternating video (even/odd lines) - resulting in true 60HZ play (and the reason for the warning about projection TV's - which often couldn't handle the increased actual frame rate). This is the normal reason for these black scan lines on many TV's
actually the black lines are the result of how the electron guns in a CRT draw the image on the screen...by drawing one line at a time. But most old school consoles had a progressive resolution of 240p, and 480i only became a thing with the 5th gen, which was abandoned for 480p in the 6th Gen with the Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox supporting 480p video and up.
***** But with 480i (or 576i or 405 or whatever), the lines are so close together that it's very difficult, sometimes impossible, to see the lines. With 240p or whatever, the electron gun only lights up half of the space as usual, and it does so twice as fast as it doesn't have to light the space for the other field. So you get black lines where, usually, the other field would be.
Starting with the 6th gen, consoles started outputting true 480i instead of 240p on a regular basis. And that's when the scan line effect disappeared.
Do you know anything that replicates the blur effect that the arcade games from the 80's & early-mid 90's using CRT monitors had? I have a supergun that I use to play my arcade boards on my CRT TV but the blur effect seen on arcade monitors is of course missing. The SLG 3000 would help with the scanlines, but my TV only has composite inputs. Still I would love to get that blur effect.
I am trying to get rid of those scanlines on my crt >.< With 60Hz rgb you get those on a pal TV.
What an interesting little gizmo! I bet it has made a real difference to your games, is it just me or do LCDs (and some CRTs too) seem to make the picture TOO bright? I do have poor eyesight so when I get very close to read small text I notice just the effect your video demonstrates! If I had this SLG thingy it may make it easier for me to read. I saw a Sony Trinitron widescreen set fully working left out in the rain which sucked! If only I had got to it sooner!
Thanks. I got mine direct from Arcade Forge in Germany. I'm not sure where else sells them.
I don't get it. Non of my old consoles on old TVs had black scan lines. It looks interesting and all, but I don't see the appeal.
usa had scanlines because cheap tvs were unable to have full render
@@tsartomato No, because PAL has more lines, thus they are closer.
@@SalveMonesvol not really.
what lines if you have honeycomb masks or vertical brick masks
we never had black lines and we had full size picture
@@tsartomato wait... Are you talking about videogames or TV In General?
@@SalveMonesvol both
the past was the worst and there were no proper standards
just like there were no ugly black lines outside usa
It's much better in person. I wish I could properly show people, haha. Yeah, CRT's wont last forever so it's good that there are cheap solutions like the SLG :)
I have the Mini SLG and it has color distortion issues when turned on I assume because it takes power from your scaler or whatever you have plugged into it
Nice explanation of the SLG-3000.. I have one and am really pleased with it. Got it mainly for garou mark of the wolves and sonic CD on the 360 and anything else retro for that matter :)
I was also really wanting to use it for PS3 but pal PS3s dont even do a 640x480 signal! the lowest it goes is 576i/p (@50hz to boot!!) how silly is that? :(
What you say is absolutely true.. but there is also the issue of space and convenience :) Sometimes its nice and tidier to have everything all on the one setup
Thanks for the video, didn't know there was a product like this will definitely be updating my Mame cabinet with this.
It'll work for any console with the correct scaler/hookups.
Light guns are never compatible with LCD TVs (if that's what you mean?). But I guess if you were to use the SLG on a CRT then it wouldn't cause a compatibility issue for gun games.
You should have just got the Hanzo. It's a VGA adapter with a scanline generator.
I’m confused...
Is this scanline generator intended for monitors that use VGA connector for its component (YPbPr) vídeo connection? Or is it only for VGA signals?
Do I need an adaptor to covert VGA to component? I want to use this for my PS2 on my LCD TV with component inputs.
I'm sold thanks for sharing
Thanks xD . It was a nightmare trying to shoot this video without it looking like ass! :P
you might want to have a look at "SLG-in-a-Box" and put a scart multiplicator on it.
Looks great!! A couple of games you can actually "hack" to start in 240p. They get a stunning picture on a CRT. Street Fighter 3 for ex.
Its the Dreamcast version of the Genesis Tower of Power.
beharius on assemblergames forums is selling a Dreamcast VGA box with scanliner feature built in (he calls it the Hanzo). Just an alternative if you like scanlines, personally I prefer jaggies.
I always play retro games on a small 14 inch crt tv, so i don't really see the scanline spaces, the beam is too thick to leave gaps. on a bigger tv on the other hand, like 20 inches or if you stand really close to the action like with an arcade cabinet it's more distinct. i have never seen scanlines as the biggest difference between crt and lcd tvs, it's something else. for me maybe it's more about the colors, lack of lag, that there's no native resolutions and the analog "feel" of it.
Any chance you can provide a video capture sample of what the scanlines look like? Not filming the screen but actually captured video of it? I'm trying to track down anything with what it would look like captured and so far no luck.
In my opinion, the picture on a CRT computer monitor looks better than this. I understand the convenience of having all of your consoles hooked up to one TV, but for me, it makes more sense to have an HDTV for modern consoles and a nice CRT for retro games. I don't see any reason to buy a device that simulates the real thing when I could just use the real thing itself.
Any reason
power consumption and space, writing from my 30m² believe me each square feet is counting !!!
The dreamcast port of SFA3 looks pretty good.
I was surprised at this also.. they do act like a fake anti-aliasing filter on those 480p games.
But dont forget these games go through quite a bit of upscaling on modern LCDs so some of the pixelization could be a result of that.. I'm thinking that they would probably look superb on a progressive arcade monitor or crt though. AKA native 31khz on a crt would probably look just fine. If you've ever seen a naomi cab up close you'll know what I'm on about ;)
Each to their own I guess. I have a Sony Trinitron CRT and a Bravia LCD. I prefer the LCD for everything apart from the MVS.
Looks great up close, but then every time I start playing it actually looks worse than normal. I've tinkered with all different types of emulators and custom shaders, changing scanline size and opacity etc and still get this problem. Anyone else get this?
Emulator filters are shit.
Any 10$ CRT PC monitor can do scanlines when fed with a 240p signal.
All you need is the right programs and settings to make it happen.
@@ricardolima9411 Actually, RetroArch has really great emu filters.
@@gamephreak5 Yes it does but it's not easy to get them right, the average user will probably slap a preset and be cool with it while pixel perfect resolution, original aspect ratio and smooth scrolling are distant priorities.
Retrogametech, just bought a dreamcast and loving every minute. It makes a fair noise when reading discs. I assume that if I opened it up and greased its cogs and lazer running track it might help, but what grease would you advise?
Awesome vid man, was arguing this on a small IRC channel / website we have dedicated to retro games - this video proved my point - let me know if you ever would like to hop on! Will be glad to send an invite!
Haha, you been taking a YT break? Not seen you about much lately.
It's all very subjective I suppose. Some people love them, some hate them. For DC and Wii I think they look amazing. MD, MS and Saturn, I'm not so fussed. But I'm going to make a comparison vid for the Wii and GC because they look so much better! The Wii is like a whole new console using it.
You can buy or make enclosures for all the parts to keep it tidy. You can also get a pre-built all-in-one unit if you're lazy :)
does using all those different input changing cards add any noticable input lag? also you might be able to get a nicer looking picture without the slg by adding more contrast and turning down the brightness, i can agree the scanlines do make it look better, but so could messing with some settings on your tv. it mostly just looks like a darker more contrasted image, with some scanlines.
Thanks for another great Vid.
Looks great, presumed these would be on ebay but no joy. Where can these be sourced?
A VGA box is a must have !
Can you mess with the scan-lines opacity level or darkness level?
Thanks. Yeah, can't beat them scanlines! :)
Nice video, would this work between a vga box to a vga2hdmi scaler box or would the hdmi scaler get rid of the scanlines. ??
Thanks
It'll make a big difference :) . Thanks for watching.
very nice video, helps me a lot! thanks!
If you are using the SLG, Scaler and Sync Strike for another console (such as your Megadrive) do you need to run a separate audio lead for the sound? I don't have a Dreamcast (yet) but I'd like to try this with a few other old consoles I have. Thanks.
i realize this is old but for you or anyone else reading, the Sync Strike separates out the audio so SCART or Component into the Sync Strike (depending on which model Sync Strike you purchase UNLESS you buy the "SLG In-A-Box" which has SCART, VGA pass through, and Component inputs as well as the CGA2VGA scaler and the SLG3000 all in one). I'm getting one for christmas to use with my N64 and dreamcast.
wasn't the Dreamcast a 480p console for the most part? If I am correct most games run at a 480i or 480p render so why would scan lines be needed if this console doesn't out at a 240i or 240p resolution?
Where can you get a scaler and syncstrike?
Would this work on with a NES on a modern HD TV? At the minute when i try to play a game, the screen becomes heavily pixelated and hard to see whats on the screen.
So, scanlines don't replace lines of pixels, but go "between" rows, correct?
Does the dreamcast VGA box work with games that are not VGA compatible cause some games I get an error message about av cable when using vga hd cables.
No it's the same as the official one.
There is a list of games that can be made to work via the VGA/TV switch, but there are others that are incompatible regardless.
How would you hook up a gamecube?
An X-RGB is better, but also much more expensive.
The X-RGB adds scanlines, but it also converts the image to progressive. A lot of techniques using scanlines were used to make shadows appear transparent or things like that.
If you want a real "CRT" look, you should go for the X-RGB.
But, obviously, for the price, the SLG is really good and if having scanlines is the only thing you want, it's good enough.
can you make the scanlines less dark or in another word half transparent?