I was initially worried that the video would be just 80 minutes of roasting reviewers and ranting about how much the game sucks, but you actually connected it all to your larger theme of gatekeeping and the state of shmups overall. It's rare that gaming videos try to say anything beyond if a game is worth purchasing so I really appreciate this. You have a cool style both in terms of video editing and the actual writing, keep up the good work.
Thanks Oop Soop! I really appreciate you appreciate it!!! On some level you make the things that you would like to see being made, and it’s a wonderful feeling to find we’re not alone. I definitely feel like getting into shmups got me out of that “worth it” thumbs up / thumbs down mindset - like how many games have I put dozens of hours into and just felt empty but maybe entertained? Too many! And then grabbing like Andro Dunos 2 on sale for $6 and getting the hundred plus hours and so much more than entertainment or what I could even expect for entertainment… it’s ridiculous to ask the question at that point lol. It’s worth everything. I really appreciate the compliment and you sticking it out through a long ass video!
Game journalists be like "unlike space invaders, cygni has a sstory and many buttons to attack enemies, it will revolutionize the genre" Great video, subscribed and shared.
This video is the best thing to come out of Cygni. Not only do you make the most entertaining shmup content on UA-cam, you also put out a lot of interesting thoughts and reflections on things outside the game itself. I really resonate with the gatekeeping part. Keep up the good work. ☕
What a compliment THANK YOU!!! I was nervous about doing the gatekeeping segment so I'm RELIEVED it sung with you. It's wild to me how that term gets used to go after people who love, care for, and consider the integrity of things. Meanwhile at Actual Gatekeepers Secret Lair...
Damn, I wasn't expecting a feature-film length Spiders rant! All I can say is, it was worth the wait, and can stand as the ultimate final word on the subject (with a few other subjects for good measure).
Thanks BB! Hope your not just saying that because you got mentioned ;) I haven’t watched anyone’s review yet besides Vinu’s yet so that means a lot it can stand up like that!
Standing god damn applause over here. That was an absolutely stellar video. Your ability to create a thoughtful long-form narrative that is laced with some truly unique and thoughtful takes, that stays consistently paced, while being entertaining, and artistically fascinating... damn man, it's remarkable. You're the King Tubby of the STG video space, hands deep in the machine, tweaking the dials and discovering ways to tell what we all struggle to show. Excellent work!! #STGnotded
Oh wow Christian!! 🙇🙇 Not worthy!! The King Tubby of STG Video Space is the coolest thing anyone has ever said so I will take that one for sure hahahaha No joke you are exactly who I had in mind when I was thinking of “gateway people” and the “how many people are trying to figure out how to share the feeling”… RayForce vid was so damn clever but I didn’t want to put you on the spot though hahaha This comment meant a lot to me thank you so much brother!!!
i had a rollercoaster of emotions with this game and it's development... as a final thought there is nothing left than quoting myself "Cinematic Shmup my a$$". really enjoyed your video, subscribed!
Thanks brother! I ended up cutting a whole segment “The Ballad of AntiramDSR”, but I hope you caught the special thanks in the credits. I think your “rollercoaster” was the story for just about all of us. I checked the farm yesterday while finishing and I saw your last post… haven’t watched Mark’s video yet but wow if there’s still more drama
@@SpidersSTG "The Ballad..." love that title :D well, i think most of my double-180°-move honestly came from feeling really bad for the constant shitting on the devs... there was a comment in the forum about "everyone beeing all over the place", which really left me questioning the entire threat and my own way of approaching it. than i forced myself to get into the game as openminded as possible and... well... uuhm... it worked for 6 hours but then... nope :) on top of it: the utter blatant ignorance from those devs... i just can't stand them anymore
Gosh, this was a nice watch! Your thoughts/definitions on casuals and gatekeeping felt eye-opening (especially the bit about Dark Souls and you getting to experience memorizing the layouts due to its demands and difficulty), delving into getting people into shmups via gateway people as opposed to gateway games was interesting, it was neat to hear some takeaways from CYGNI despite its shortcomings and have a bit of faith in the game's future, I enjoyed the intro skit and general editing throughout the video, and it was cute to see your cats roaming around and sometimes getting in the way (affectionately) as you recorded. .u.
Thank you so much Note!!! I’m so glad you dug my thought process on those… I always get worried I’m going out on a limb haha See you have a channel - can’t wait to check it out! I have Soundodger but never played it yet. Going to check that one out ASAP :)
"I chew bread and eat shmups" has two meanings: Masticare also means to "smatter", so its describing the crumbs as bullets. Also you play so much, you play as you eat.
Very cool! I love learning about idiomatic language like that but I feel like now when I try and look stuff up it’s all listicles and AI generated content. Hope my Italian was funny and not ear-grating lol
Thanks IoM! Gatekeeping and “gatekeeping” is something I think about a lot and this game ended up exemplifying the problems I have… I was locked and loaded for it but wasn’t planning on doing a video like this for quite a while. I’m so glad you enjoyed it!!!!
Right? I’m not in love with the upgrade systems in those either, but they’re fun at every level and offer fixed arcade and and arcade style modes as well and you never feel like your not playing the game. I’m almost positive you can clear either without upgrades.
Amazing video Spiders! I really like your style of editing, a bit "chaotic", makes me feel I'm in your brain 😁. I mean in your thinking process. Very interesting "Gatekeeper" part. Ps: Your cats are so cute 😻
Merci Vinu !!! Cette vidéo était très "dans mon cerveau". Je suis content que cela ait été amusant d'être là pendant une heure ! Les chats apprécient les compliments. Ils sont le TLB dans tous les shmup auxquels je joue, bloquant l'écran et appuyant sur les boutons.
man, this video is a ride. couldn't agree more with your take on "gatekeeping," and i'm right there with you on your closing comments about media spin. the ign live presentation was my first exposure to the game, and "cinematic" being the first word on the game has brought along a lot of baggage. i got it for free and hope to someday enjoy it (in spite of my many issues with it), but for now my head is too full with all the things that cyngi has been touted as for me to take it as it is.
Glad you checked out the video because it sounds like we’re of the same mind! I would do the same thing I’m doing to… wait for updates to shore up the arcade and scoring, then skip the upgrade system and have at it.
Hii! What a cool video. I'm not really interested in the game itself, but you talked about much more than that (and with good humor) and made me realize its an interesting case. Much of the situation is applicable to communities and culture in general. Great take.
Thank you! I wasn’t even planning to make a video for this but when I saw how the game was received and the discussion around it a lot of broader things I was thinking about all seemed to relate really nicely. I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
“I’d like to thank my cats, the academy, and Hollywood for lowering the bar so much.” Seriously though thank you Agus! I’m beyond flattered and massively relieved anyone stuck it out that long:)
@@Agus-wp2cc Sometimes the algo provides hahaha. I’m so excited your in for the ride! I have a ton of stuff planned and the feedback from this vid gives me confidence for some things I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to do so even more stuff now hahaha.
"My favorite is Dodonpachi, but I also like more modern shmups, like Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga." That IGN guy talks about it as though Treasure made their games at the tail end of the genre's lifespan, but the truth is that Radiant Silvergun and Dodonpachi came out within one year of each other, and Ikaruga was released a decade before Cave stopped making arcade games.
That namedropping line was definitely a “say shibboleth” to my ears lol. Xevious and RayForce would have made tons more sense to name check but Gradius/Life Force because Konami.. what a lucky coincidence they’re his favorites! Easy work to make things modern and new if you ignore history lol
@@EnfieldsMikeP Weak Tea > Kool-Aid IGN is the largest media conglomerate in the largest entertainment industry. I think their role is gatekeeping and they were delivering a narrative. If you think it’s cool bros just hanging in the cut on a couch talking shop, I don’t know what to tell you. The only “offhand pull” I went for was visually highlighting what I perceived as Mahar’s frustration being talked over by the Konami marketing director with the “reinvent the genre” narrative he had distanced himself from on the Shmups Forum earlier (later in the video). You can think it’s a stretch or that I’m making too much fuss, but I think the burden is on you to convince me every word in that interview wasn’t practiced, crafted, and approved by all parties prior with the intention of delivering a narrative payload. It’s literally their job.
Probably a little less tinfoil hat than my kooky conspiracy theory that the largest media conglomerate in the largest market of the largest entertainment industry in the world doesn’t leave a lot to chance.
100% … or at least elevate the input and feedback of those who could. If devs don’t understand the depth of their own game, I don’t know where they expect players to find it.
What did I just stumble into? My man, this was incredible. The flow, the poetry, the callbacks to previous sections to emphasize points, relating the hobby to life itself, it's all incredible. It comes off as both completely improvised and yet scripted and polished all at once. I've gotta see what else you've made and will stick around for a while. Small pieces of feedback because while I came out of this loving it, I did get lost in the beginning: 1. Audio levels for the sound effects in The Battle of Taxonomia made it so hard for me to understand you that I had to watch with subtitles. Not a big deal, but from an audio perspective my guess is that the mids in your vocal track are a bit oversaturated while the highs aren't emphasized enough, which caused the 8-bit sounds to run right over them. 2. At 6:15 you started running some text alongside reading a review that had some really good points about taxonomy. I really couldn't tell whether I should read the words or listen to the review and had to rewind that part a bunch and keep pausing. My advice would be to throw a low pass filter on your voice and slowly ratchet it down if the review is pointless and you want the words to be the focus. Or, if you want us to hear/see both, just playing the text after would have been great. It would have really driven the point of the reviews home as a follow up. Anyway, thanks again for making this. Can't say anything else the 100+ comments here haven't already said. Aside, I guess, from shouting out to the people that wrote them, because on top of the excellent video, the conversations below it are great and I read them all.
OMG THANK YOU!!! I’m so glad you stumbled onto this is and it connected!!! Also - YES THANK YOU for the audio notes… I think you’re right with the EQ I couldn’t figure it out in my ears.. I moved all the source files of to download Wukong but I’m to experiment with that I think you’re right!! I did want to kind of keep people off-balance in the prologue and split their attention - kind of like a shmup actually - and know that you mention it I think my plan was to do “tiktok” style one word subtitles over that part but I forgot or bailed on it - either way I’m really glad you got through the “filter” lol. Again thanks for checking it out and the great comment! Made my day:)
To answer the question on younger money: Generally speaking, the younger person's $30 is more valuable because they have more life ahead of them to come back and respend as they get older. It's a big reason why children's franchises tend to be the biggest selling franchises of all time. People get exposed to Pokemon at a young age, they love it, may be they grown out of it, may be they don't, but they probably expose their kids to it and suddenly Nintendo and GameFreak have captured someone's spending as both a child (through their parents) and as an adult. It's also worth mentioning that targeting younger money shapes the tastes of future old money. Shaping those tastes away from Cool but low-margin genres into still cool but super high-margin genres is totally a part of the strat.
100% great answer! I think your right, and I think that highlights the issue I have here as well. That would all happen as a natural process. So, why force it? I’m tongue-in-cheek when I’m calling it ageism, but I do think an effect of (or purpose of) of gatekeeping is breaking the intergenerational channels of communication and maintaining a top-down influence. I think it’s telling that most players I see in the speedrunning community are too young to have grown up with the games they play, for example, or that even for myself I’m playing games now that I technically could have grown up with, but didn’t because of how I was influenced by the media of my day. Thanks so much for the comment Punch Party!!! It gave me a lot to think about:) I’m working on another “media theory” video about nostalgia and progress and your thoughts are really helpful for trying to understand what I think. Looking forward to checking out your channel too! You ever think about making videos again??
@@SpidersSTG I think the relative youth of speed runners also points to the general impotence of gatekeepers and the accusations there of. There aren't any real gates, only keepers and few, if any of them have meaningful ability prevent people who really want to engage with something. Video essays are always a hobby that's floating in the back of my mind since I like toying with different ideas. Though I don't really have anything concrete planned at the moment.
Okay, finished the entire thing. Well thought after! You know, as I dive into more arcade-minded designs and develop my own games, I grew more cynical to the RPGs in particular the progressions. There is no skill in just making the numbers up then do the numbers check to give you the illusion of progress. That's just mindless work. For the arcade-minded thrillseekers, that's bad game design. Yet there are still people who like them. I'm kinda glad that some RPGs are tight, precise challenges with well-tuned balance compared to the expected progression, but to succeed you need to cater to both these number suckers (Casuals) and battle freaks (Hardcores) Then there is one more piece of puzzle to consider: Cozy games. They are almost naught of challenge. Very easy. Very accessible. No time limit. Everyone is welcome. But no high-stake thrills. That's the point. Very popular. I think, ultimately, what these journalists and casuals like to seek are cozy games. Arcade games, in particular shmups, are the complete opposite of cozy. No shade to cozy games, certainly. But mindlessly cozifying arcade games will lead to disaster. Even Ginga Force and Natsuki Chronicles had a hard time with their grind economy. It's just these games are already solid at their foundation.
Typical RPG systems make perfect sense when applied to their original functions. In dungeon crawlers, for example, your manual skills don't matter, what matters is your ability to plan your dungeon raids. Dungeon Crawlers wouldn't make any sense if there wasn't a limit to how deep you can go into the dungeon before you have to go back and look for better items, new spells and skills, new organizations for your party, etc. It's basically a game for those who like to make plans and find solutions to problems. This concept itself is interesting, which is why you see so many games trying to take advantage of it. Dark Souls is basically an action game, but it will impose a limit on your progress (at least if you're a normal player) that will force you to enter the “planning” phase, and make an appropriate build for your character. Even shmups like Natsuki Chronicles use the same logic, since the story mode is brutal precisely to force you to experiment with different configurations for your ship, again, it's a way of making the player stop advancing to plan his next “raid”. Of course, there are "evil" applications of this same logic. I think Vampire Survivors is one of the best examples, since it also limits the player like dungeon crawlers do, but the intention is not to make the player create a strategy, try out different solutions, plan their next moves... the intention is literally to make the player make numbers grow, because the more they grow, the longer the player survives, and the longer they survive, the more they are able to make numbers grow, in a mindless cycle that takes advantage of addiction to engage the player. In short: RPG systems exist to add a “problem-solving” element to the game, which may or may not be welcome, depending on the type of experience you're looking for. It's not intrinsically good or bad, except in the case where the system is not accompanied by the “problem-solving” element, as in Vampire Survivors, a game that I genuinely think is bad for people's mental health, lol.
@@jpa3974 Great comment, I think shmup players often miss the appeal of well-designed RPG systems, and dungeon crawlers like Wizardry are the quintessential good example. Of course, I think shmups are better off without any of it, but games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter would not be nearly as interesting if they didn't have a preparation phase outside of combat that forces the player to think ahead and make decisions about their character. I also love that you brought up Vampire Survivors as a negative example; I played that game for hours due to the hype around it but stopped because it made me feel like a lab rat, and only later found out that the lead dev got his start programming in the gambling industry lol
@@islandofmelanat Having RPG elements in shmups can be done correctly. In a pure arcade setup, it can be as mild as just use them as a skin-suit. Cotton's and Batsugun's "levels" are merely power up Lv's to the shots and in practice their DPS doesn't get affected that much. Some are on the insanely precise end, like Radiant Silvergun where scoring is mandatory for comfortable DPS. Psyvariar is on the less precise extent but determines the stage branches that you can enter. I like it when the RPG part is part of the routing plan. But it can get quite easy to mis-calibrate without rigorous testing.
This is a wonderful comment! I was a big RPG fan and I've completely lost my taste for it... I actually cut a section about the taxonomy of "blobbers" and how dungeon crawlers are no Diablo-likes and Wizardry style games have the only name for their genre stupider than shmups. There *is* fundamentals to RPGs, but I'm afraid I don't know enough to dig into it and it's been completely lost and paved over by the big developers who still develop for the genre. I did pull some things for CYGNI from a VS video I'm playing with, and I totally agree that "cozy" is something that is highly valued right now -- but! I think it's gaming methadone... or maybe worse, Suboxone. They completely subvert, then replace the player/game natural reward system and replace it with the lowest possible dosage drip. Frogs think slow boiling pots of water are cozy, ya know? My "cozy" game is Operation S.T.E.E.L., because I don't have to route it or plan much, just pure shoot and dodge with lite "upgrade" considerations, and something like Unicorn Overlord might relax my reflexes somewhat an engage my planning brain. "Cozy" games just trade the reward system for "Time On Site" and other app design KPIs... that's how I see it anyway... spoiling upcoming videos lol!!! I love that term "cozification"... I will be filing the serial numbers off of that one! Agree Ginga Force and Natsuki Chronicles were the noble attempt at these ideas, and I do think they fell flat for a lot of players... myself included considering how much I adore Eschatos. Thank you SO MUCH for watching the whole video!!!! Consider the post-credits self-humiliation your prize :D
@@islandofmelanat 100% this... please read my reply to the above comment. Discovering shmups kind of clued me into the idea of "fundamental" genres, and I've been messing around with blobbers and Wizardry-likes. Do you have a link for the VS dev coming from gambling!?!?!? I would love that for the VS video I'm working on!!!!
great video man ! really enjoyed your thoughts and very interesting presentation. Lots of big-brained stuff going on here. thanks for the shoutout at the end - gotta get back to the grind to finish it!
Hahaha I think I cut the part where I prayed it comes out this year… no pressure! Plenty to enjoy in the meantime but I’m very looking forward to it and hope other people check out your demo.
@@SpidersSTG Had some personal setbacks - namely lost my job beginning of July. You'd think I'd have more time - nope less. Wife is working more to pick up the slack, so I'm on dad duty - also the jump hunting process is brutal. I spent 6hours this weekend on a take home tech exam (to get rejected without even a phone call). Feature wise, the game is done - it's down to the endless refinements, level tweaks, boss design updates. etc. Don't want to release it with half-baked design. The amount of time/energy it takes to design shmup levels and bosses is INSANE. Like the shear density, no margin for error, you have to tweak things just so.
@@figamesstellarfury That’s really tough - but yeah take all the time you need! But not more than you need lol. If it comes out in a week or a year it’s going to be just as exciting for everyone. I think that’s not the first time with those 6 hour+ job exams for you right? Or maybe I read that about someone else too??? That’s a crazy thing in your field…. it’s got to be so frustrating. Best of luck with everything shmupdaddy, I’m rooting for ya!!!
Dude this video is so good! Thank you so much! 12:44 had me SCREAMING bro! I absolutely lose it when I hear stuff like that. There's an important game dev idiom: options should match desires. And you talk about it a lot when you talk about the ship customization. And this is a sentiment literally every human deals with on a daily basis and yet so many game devs just want to pump in so much C O N T E N T into their games or they get stuck on a cool idea but there's no gameplay around it. Your term garden tender is really going to stick with me! Thanks again!
Gardens Not Gates!!!! I like that a lot... options should match desires! And yes, "content" is anathema to design. I want to check your stuff out -- any recommendations?
01:06:05 Now this is what I'm talking about. Even as a kid, I remember being incredibly upset at not being able to beat Pokemon Puzzle League on Very Hard. Not a soul was rooting for me, in fact my classmates thought it was a stupid endeavor, but I kept at it till I did it. Was maybe 10 at the time. That victory was probably the first time in my life I felt I could overcome a challenge. It sounds like this Matt guy has never had such an experience. Which is truly saddening. That experience will likely sit with me to my grave, however I cannot be sympathetic when someone with this view hears about this and their response is "Ah, Cool." Would love to throw copies of G.K. Chesterton at all these writers that employ "revolutionary" rhetoric. The gate remains closed.
That’s amazing coming from a ten year old mind… I would have easily assumed Very Hard was for the older kids, maybe even the smarter ones. I didn’t have a moment like that until I was much older - certainly one that I gave myself proper credit for. Not to plug but I think you would dig my Sophstar video; the relevant part starts around at 23 minutes, my best understanding of the “Matt” mind and how the subtle difference in perception maybe explains the “revolutionary” tendency to change the world to suit your desires vs. changing yourself and understanding the purpose of desire. Throw one of those books at me too! I never heard of G K Chesterton before. Which would you recommend? GG on the Puzzle League Very Hard 10 yr old Anon!
That’s fantastic!!! and I hope I didn’t say anything in the video to discourage you. Honestly I think I’d do the thing at 1:09:12, start on Easy, and just enjoy figuring it all out, see how far you’d like to take it, and if you give up early really think about why and know other shmups may gel better. If you really enjoy the process of trying to master it, the whole genre is your oyster and all it’s wonders and treasures no one player could hope to imagine seeing all of. If you’re cheap, I *might* recommend waiting for an update and a sale, because the problems veterans and my novice-ass pointed out are maybe worse for new players than anyone. Unless your favorite flavor is ‘grind’ ;) Thank you so much for checking the video out - especially as someone who has nothing to do with the genre. Massive compliment and I’m truly honored by it.
I was gonna reply to my initial post, but I think it's better to express it in a new one. I'm a long time arcade player who can clear a small selection of games (now I have to rerecord them to prove myself lol), and why I've never really gelled with the shmup players is (despite agreeing with them on a lot of things as a fighting game player) I don't like the "show me your clears" stuff. I play mostly 16-bit games, console memos, and G.Rev games, so I'm in my own camp here, I couldn't confirm my scores for most of my life just due to not having the tech to do it, and it's so easy to get called a cheater without video footage. I understand why there's skepticism, because people straight up lie on the internet, and it kind of poisoned the well, but I'm an old arcade player, so I used to just play on local hardware, and I think it's disingenuous to ask for MAME replays, since I think a lot of devs of the 90s couldn't confirm their clears if asked. A lot of great games were made by people who couldn't clear Area 88, I don't really care. I bet they could with time, but making games and clearing DDP are two different things. What I mean is, I don't think clears == good game. Does the fact that the developers of fantasy zone can't beat gradius mean that fantasy zone is bad?
100%! Maybe my jokey parts muddied the intention here? The “show me your clears” - which was color I added , I think the quotes were “he probably never cleared a game”, and “well if you cleared RayForce (or tried), then you know better than me (who hasn’t) what makes it good…” in this context isn’t about saying Mahar has to clear RayForce to make CYGNI, but that the suspicion is he hasn’t tried to 1CC a shmup and doesn’t understand the deeper layer, thus the Euroshmup design elements. The “show me your scores/replays” I just added as like a “try hard character” … I don’t even know how to setup MAME I use Retroarch lol… really just to say that I really appreciate those guys with strict standards (maybe overly so) holding devs feet to the fire. There definitely is (or was) that “prove it” attitude and I agree with you that we should just assume people aren’t lying about their achievements unless they’re offensively bold claims. I’m not super deep into that part of the scene so maybe it is a problem I’m not noticing? I was worried about that when I stopped making full commentaries and edited footage (and always forget to dump the unedited playthrough on the channel), but nobody’s said anything so far. I think the other thing - maybe I conflated by accident for effect - is the Battle of Aurinoxia dev being unable to clear his own levels without continues… that I found very offensive in the context of how he took the feedback of a player who could. I do think devs should be able to clear their games and no-miss sections - or play “perfect” in their idiom, or at least rely on someone who can. Otherwise, they’re just expecting the player to figure it out and wishing it’s fun and engaging. Terarin is probably a great example here as someone who is admittedly not very good at shmups, but he tunes them to his level of mastery and then can put out what I think are the best beginner level shmups, and they get harder as he gets better so it all acts as this sharing/training for players through his work. Also I like new comments instead of replies lol It means I get notified and don’t have to go digging:) Thanks for reaching out again!!!
Same boat. If only video was proof enough, any cheater can stream on twitch with prerecorded and edited footage. Frankly, the kind of trolls that were quoted in the video gave me a kind of Billy Mitchell vibe... Typical from those kinds of echo chambers forums. I've started to record the few arcade games I have 1 life'd or 1CC'd in the past, but I'm well aware that it's a completely worthless task, I just completed them like if they were old guitar songs I once learned, tokeep a trace. It's not because I know some solos that I'm going to ask a sound engineer to play me some Metallica thinking it'll prove they can use a soundboard...
@@SpidersSTG Yeah I didn't mean it directed at you highlighting it, it's just that system11 posts are often very jaded and really unhelpful when it comes to stuff. It's no different than SRK back in the day (and I HATED srk, it was a giant circlejerk). I understand the sentiment, since people are trying to keep games pure. I do agree that "I played rayforce once on ps1" doesn't really check out when you look at the game as it is, and I never saw any beta footage so I don't even know what it looked like in the past. I just find it weird to be like "show me your clears" as if like CAVE hired Yagawa because he has some sick ass clears. About the other devs, the thing is, arcade games are about mechanics, and you fine tune the game not to the standards of other games, but to the standards of your game. If you don't care about your game, you won't bother playing it for real, and you won't fine tune your mechanics. I love caravan games. Yes they're easy, but they're simple and fun, and Terarin's games really capture that essence of "just shoot and score." It's a different mindset or really way of thinking that often gets lost because there's a lot weighing on what I think is "clear tourism," which is the absolute inverse of playing casually, where you play for about the same time as a casual, but you get the clear and just drop the game because you're done with it, and never really sit down and just enjoy it. I played Metal Slug X for hours when I was 12 not to get the clear, but because I loved it, I just happened to get the clear because I loved the game. It's really funny actually, because we're only at this phase of stgs because Ikeda really loved dodging bullets in salamander, and then he worked his way up to make games he enjoyed playing first and foremost. It's not an objective standard, it's just a way of approaching playing and enjoying games. It's the same with Zun, he made games he enjoyed and it developed a different way of thinking for approaching games.
@@MotWhinnana This is a great comment! The SRK comparison got me… you still hear the “footsies” purity in SF6 lol. Skipping neutral is “Anime”!!! Really good point! Clear tourism also.. wow. It is really interesting because I saw that immediately…. not to plug but in my Missile Dancer video the intro is about the gap in how for shmup vets it was a “15 minute pump and dump”, but for me it was the 60 hour journey that ended up with me getting to top score because I loved playing it so much. The whole thing deserves a lot more nuance for sure. The wheels are turning!!! Thank you 🙏
@@_oBSOLEte_ Reading this I’m sorry I dropped the “Farm Revisited” sequence because they really did give the game an honest shot and many people had no problem changing there minds. AntiramDSR and -Fish- particularly did a better job of explaining the qualities of the game than anybody on the internet. Places like that will always have an opinion forming kind of quality, but for me it was that openness in the end that showed me the earlier roughness was really coming from a place of tough love IMO. I definitely agree with your sentiment though… and I’m probably being very naive about it as I haven’t done anything in the genre yet noteworthy enough to be under any scrutiny.
4:40 the dev doesn’t want to make sure the game can be no-missed…? How many of these Euro-minded shmup devs that are still around!? This is 2024 already and they can at least look at Natsuki Chronicles!
I found that interaction really frustrating, as well as that the dev couldn’t clear the levels w/o retries while some players could. I cut the part in his feedback, but going against the expectations for the genre for “his vision” - he said using the visual language of the genre is like wearing it as a skin-suit… which is a really horrifying image for something people love and care about.
Thanks EELZAP! No worries I got a buddy still working through it lol! Ideally everything should have a longer shelf life and conversation: gaming isn’t going anywhere, shmups are still underground, and media gatekeeping will unfortunately be a thing as long as we’re giving them attention.
Today i woke up and i m a spider This is THE channel! I m always feel overwhelmed by the simple-complexity or the complex-simplicity of shmups even have a little stendhal syndrme 😂 Now finaly i m in the mood to be devoted to this amazing genere and start to make my first 1cc and improve scores, etc .. this channel helps me to do that, thanks ! Your thoughts , the script , the music, the intimacy are superb… The Sophstar episode is my favorite and now i need a special version of Sophstar with the music that you put on the episode. Greetings from Girona, Catalonia , Spain P.s : Sorry for my engilsh , this is my first comentary on UA-cam ever
Alejandro that’s AMAZING!!! More legs and more eyes will help you I think lol I can’t tell you how happy it makes me to hear that - that was my desire when making the Sophstar video, that it might connect with people who wanted more from the hobby. I never imagined it would reach across the world!!! I’m very excited to hear about your journey! Do you have a game in mind yet? One day we’ll make the Aquarela do Brasil romhack for Sophstar :) Your English is SUPERB! Thank you for commenting! If you ever want to post in Spanish, I don’t mind finding a translation.
I m on Sophstar now trying to improve my score , 17th in the intermediate leaderboard (Almorgas66) just above Matt ( that Matt? lol) ; hope some day can make 1cc but is far far away from i can reach now … Thanks for your answering ! Can t wait for your next video ! Saludos !!
MATT! hahahaha If you’re interested I just did a “Meet The Player” with Dace on @Shmuptopia and we talk a lot about the depth, the mindset, and being a new player. You might dig it! I’m working on 3 videos now hopefully the stick mod video will be up in a week or two but it also covers games and technique as well.
Yeah i ve seen “ meet the player” you nail the bullet heaven , junkie, electric shmuptopia analogies ! The sādhāna concept fits perfect for my vision of the path to improve in shmups and in life ; now days people talk a lot of mindfullness and Stoicism and there is nothing more in the present and Stoic than a Stg. Love when you talk about being confident enought to share your missile dancer achievements , etc… The compile-Rizzing is and interesting way to cover ( and hard !) I m now in the soldier pcengine triology, just make 1cc on final soldier , soldier blade is my goal now Saludos !!
@@alejandromoreno8248 That’s so cool! I feel less crazy that you also see the link between shmups, mindfulness, Stoicism, and self-improvement:) Congrats on the Final Soldier 1CC! Have you ever thought about making videos?
I have honestly never seen an editing style so messy. I don't mean it in a bad way. It certainly is unique and your content is good. If you manage to keep it authentic and creative, you might be onto something.
Thank you!? lol I get exactly what you mean. Even though I have the same tools as professionals, I feel like I’m splicing VHS tape with a razor a lot of the time and this one felt very punk rock and chaotic and I wanted to do a lot of TikTok style edits and use force - pretentious probably but in my head like as a wink and nod to the ageism and progress ideas. I’ll keep trying I really love making these - and if you stick around and I start fucking up let me know! Thank you so much for checking it out!!!
@@SpidersSTG I watched another video of yours and it shows that you have the skill and the vision. Initially I almost wrote you off as one of those pretentious TikTok guys you said you were "cosplaying". It also felt punk rock to me. You are really, really nailing this. Go for it! I will be clapping and cheering from the first row.
I don’t even have words… thank you so much for the vote of confidence. I’ll try and earn it!!! I’ve been checking out your channel you play really cool games! Even if I can only understand the English it’s very nice to watch and listen to.
Great video as usual, but I feel it's a bit too hectic. Personally I think it would be great if you could lower the music volume slightly, it's a bit hard for me to focus on what you're saying over the music. Anyhow great job!
Thank you! All I can say is I'll try and do better with audio next time... some things, particularly in the Prologue and first 10 minutes was intentional to be a bit frustrating as to where to put you're attention and push you to read and add some discomfort with a "shrug of relief" later... but that doesn't mean it was a good idea or worked. I also kind of wanted to filter people who wanted a happy-go-lucky UA-cam review and get them out of here before heavier topics were introduced. If it helps, UA-cam's auto closed captions are surprisingly good for this. Thanks for watching anyway!!!
A haven't played Cygni or a lot of shmups in general, so I'm definitely in the casual category, but I feel like Cygni probably should've been an "on the ground" shmup like Guwange, Ikari Warriors or even Spy Hunter. That way the game could still be 16:9 while still having a narrow pathway that encourages twinstick aiming to kill the enemies outside the path. The ship could also be replaced by a mech, which by itself could inspire a slew of unique mechanics. For example, you could have thrusters that allow you to move quickly in different directions but has intertia, so they could have the intertia the devs so desperately wanted but the players have the choice to use it and it also serves as a way to balance thrusters versus slower walking. I also think it'd be cool to have a sword that cancels bullets but has endlag, but at this point I'm just describing a game I want to make instead.
That video was certainly... something. I don't agree with everything (I think you don't fully grasp what's around the whole gatekeeping part, for instance) but it was well argumented and the montage was interesting and pretty wild at times.
I'm very impressed with the structure and editing and writing of this piece. I may disagree with most of the arguments you pose, but your craft is undeniable. I can't just sum up the entire video to argue against it in the length of one UA-cam comment - your writing is dense with ideas and I'd need an essay of my own to really get into it. (That's a compliment, I swear!)
That’s really high praise and it means a lot to me!!! I’d rather be understood than convincing and I’d love to hear your thoughts or disagreements. I cut for time, but I had a segment on the Dark Souls easy mode where a “pleasantly heated” exchange changed my mind about some things and also reinforced some others. Also I think it says a lot about you that you can watch things where you don’t agree… I feel like that is a lost virtue in today’s media landscape. Thanks so much for checking the video out!!!
@@SpidersSTG There's three things that really stood out to me. For one, I find it weird that you ran with a fairly technical definition of gatekeeping from a book on news media instead of finding a definition that's closer to what laypeople probably mean when they throw the word around. I've always considered the Gate to be separating people not from the content - no amount of sneering from forums can physically stop someone from buying and playing a game - but from the community around the content. Instead of a gardener, I consider gatekeepers to be like temperamental bouncers at a club. You might hear the music outside, and even look up the DJ and listen to their mixes online. But if the bouncer decides they don't like what you're wearing or whatever, you don't get the social experience of dancing with the crowd. These are the folks that want to see scores before they decide to listen to someone's opinion on a game. I'm not a shmup player (yet?) but I have gatekeepy gut reactions about roguelikes and farming RPGs. Just because I've played Rune Factory and Dungeons of Dredmor doesn't mean the Stardew and Hades players can't positively shape their genres. My other two points are basically about perspective. The line "Why is my $30 less important than their $30" really stuck with me because... Publishers are never going to care about you as an individual. They see your $30, and then they see a thousand less discerning teenagers each with their own $30 and more free time to play games and give them free marketing on Twitch or whatever. This is the big difference between CYGNI and something like Battle of Aurinoxia. One of them gets an email with a name every time someone buys their game off itch.io, the other gets an email from shareholders when their game is thousands of sales below target. That's the curse of niche communities, really. You either die an indie or live long enough to see yourself become a product. And finally, about difficulty. I resonate a lot with how you describe playing truly difficult shmups - learning all the intricacies of the systems, dancing with the bullets, reaching that nirvana. I play rhythm games for that exact same feeling! But there's a big difference between how I progress my skill in Guitar Hero vs DJMax vs Project Diva. In one, my flow state is at the upper limits of the provided difficulties. In another, I'm getting that same euphoric feeling at Hard and I don't feel the need to grind my skill to attempt Extreme - I'm already getting what I came here for. And in other games I'm flubbing the basics and trying to weigh whether I want to learn how to manipulate this plastic peripheral or move on to something else. This is what I think is missing from the Dark Souls Easy Mode debate. Some people reach full saturation with a game at a different difficulty than me. And if that's what it takes for them to see what I see in my favorite games, I think having more options is only a good thing. Anyways, you can see why I didn't want to leave an unsolicited three-comment rant under your video. I'm only "pleasantly heated" because what you made is truly that engaging on an intellectual level. I think you deserve to have people dig in as deep as you do! Again, really great work and I hope I don't come off too intense.
@@Jiroxys25 Perfect intensity! I saw this comment this morning and have been chomping at the bit all day to sit down front of a keyboard and reply:) RE: Gatekeeping... I started with my take on the "laymen" definition and then touch on the community aspect with Smash Bros, i.e. this is not the only or intended way, but the way we're going to play and build a community (gate) around... I think you're right that's how the term gets used amongst the "civilians". I think maybe that's what I'm saying: that the "bouncers at the club" arbitrarily keeping people out is the image that gets painted of the "gatekeeper", a myth -- and I might be naive here or just very lucky in my travels -- but I've never encountered anybody in my life who didn't want to share what they loved if they thought my interest in their interest was sincere. That's beyond games and for everything, really. I wanted to highlight the actual definition, because I think it's one of those things where when you understand what gatekeeping actually is, and then the insane fact that the actual gatekeepers are the one s who put that term out there as a way to do actual gatekeeping and create secondary gatekeepers (tech term not covered in video, but essentially the fans who accept and reinforce the media's framework from the ground level), I think it's best to just hear that word as "Sibboleth", throw the conversation into the river, and start over from scratch without all the baggage and tripwires. Like you said, nobody can actually keep you from playing a game, and I think I made the noble case for "gatekeeping", so I think the question for me is, why is it important for CYGNI to be a good "shmup", or Hades to be a good "roguelike", etc., and not just it's own thing? Hell, I think Metroid Prime is great game, but a bad Metroid lol I think if I said people want validation, I'm not really being fair, but honestly I've never heard a good or good faith case for taking down the "laymen's gate" of niche. I hope I understood what you were saying:) I really love your point about the $30. I think our points from a big company's perspective can stand together. I'm definitely adding a not-so-nice character and motive to them, but practically speaking it's the same thing. The POV from the indie developer I didn't really consider. And I should've... honestly half of me wants to post my video and tag his game on Steam, and half of me is worried I come off harsh or didn't take enough care considering I used his work to make a point. I actually really enjoyed my night playing it, and it was only in the context of the "arrogant developer who doesn't want to listen" that I had a negative feeling about the game and my experience. I always thought of it as a blessing, but you're right... it's a curse too. You said the magic words: PROJECT DIVA!!! Future Tone is one of my favorite games of all-time full-stop, and I completely understand what you are saying! And I think you're 100% right. I actually am going to steal the "saturation" phrase... probably the whole comment, because you put it beautifully and I haven't been able to figure out a way to word it for at least a year lol. I cut this, but maybe I'll clip it out in the future for a broader "easy mode" take. I had a really good exchange with someone about this and their explaining their accessibility issues made something make sense to me. Imagine that all these things we call difficulty and reflexes and recognition could be measured in a such a precise way that 1) your console or profile could have an accurate baseline metric of your abilities and limits, and 2) a game could balance things around them, i.e. Boss X should push player 5% past their comfort zone, or even like a more complicated formula that takes into account emotional baselines and ability with which to deal with stress, etc... just imagine it's perfect, and you can perfectly scale the experience to each player. To me, that's a utopian horror, but theoretically that would end my argument against "Easy Mode". The case in point was a proposed slider to extend the input window for parries to compensate for muscular degeneration. I think if that can be done at a hardware level, it should be done, but in a game menu, why wouldn't I use it to to gain an advantage? I use color blind accessibility options in Splatoon to gain advantage ffs. Am I locked out of a good ending for using it? If so, we're back to square one. Somewhere, at some point, I think we are all conflating difficulty with resolve, reflexes with knowledge, and skills with understanding. Dace from Shumptopia put out a great video the other day on Samurai Aces, talking about how much of the difficulty is actually an illusion that intimidates the player so much that they stop trying to push. And I think that's at the heart of the Easy Mode debate as I see it. I need to believe you are willing to hit that point of saturation, of testing your resolve, of banging your head, of losing hope and finding it again, and for that to happen, there needs to be a much better understanding of the resolve, dedication, and devotion that players can have for these games. There's so many games I think are "beyond my skill", but I look at my playtime and it's so little compared to the hundreds, thousands of hours great players put into it. We probably agree pretty deeply and it's just different attitudes from our POV and what we think other people are thinking. I really, really appreciate your comments! Consider them all solicited and appreciated and don't feel like you can't say whatever your thinking. We'll do our best to understand each other in this limited medium of conversation, I'm sure :)
@@Jiroxys25 Hey Quinn! Perfect intensity! I saw this comment this morning and have been chomping at the bit all day to sit down front of a keyboard and reply:) RE: Gatekeeping... I started with my take on the "laymen" definition and then touch on the community aspect with Smash Bros, i.e. this is not the only or intended way, but the way we're going to play and build a community (gate) around... maybe I was too vague? I think you're right that's how the term gets used amongst the "civilians". I think maybe that's what I'm saying: that the "bouncers at the club" arbitrarily keeping people out is the image that gets painted of the "gatekeeper" -- and I might be naive here or just very lucky in my travels -- but I've never encountered anybody in my life who didn't want to share what they loved if they thought my interest in their interest was sincere. That's beyond games and for everything, really.| I wanted to highlight the actual definition, because I think it's one of those things where when you understand what gatekeeping actually is, and then the insane fact that the actual gatekeepers are they one put that term out there as a way to gatekeep and create secondary gatekeeping (tech term not covered in video, but essentially the fans who accept and reinforce the media's framework), I think it's best to just hear that word as "Sibboleth", throw the conversation into the river, and start over from scratch without all the baggage and tripwires and just say what we think and feel in plain language. Like you said, nobody can actually keep you from playing a game, and I think I made a good noble case for "gatekeeping", so I think question for me is, why is it important for CYGNI to be a good "shmup", or Hades to be a good "roguelike", etc., and not it's own thing or have terms like "euroshmup" be reappropriated like 'JRPG' was. I think if I said it was for validation then I'm not really being fair, but honestly I've never heard a good or good faith case for taking down the "laymen's gate". I hope I understood what you were saying:) I really love your point about the $30. I think our points from a big company's perspective can stand together. I'm definitely adding a not-so-nice character and motive to it, but practically speaking it's the same thing. The POV from the indie developer I didn't really consider. And I should've... honestly half of me wants to post my video and tag his game on Steam, and half of me is worried I come off harsh or didn't take enough care considering I used his work to make a point. I actually really enjoyed my night playing it, and it was only in the context of the "arrogant developer who doesn't want to listen" that I had a negative feeling about the game and my experience. I always thought of it as a blessing, but you're right... it's a curse too. You said the magic words: PROJECT DIVA!!! Future Tone is one of my favorite games of all-time full-stop, and I completely understand what you are saying! And I think you're 100% right. I actually am going to steal the "saturation" phrase... probably the whole comment, because you put it beautifully and I haven't been able to figure out a way to word it for at least a year lol. I cut this, but maybe I'll clip it out in the future for a broader "easy mode" take. I had a really good exchange with someone about this and their explaining their accessibility issues made something make sense to me. Imagine that all these things we call difficulty and reflexes and recognition could be measured in a such a precise way that 1) your console or profile could have an accurate baseline metric of your abilities and limits, and 2) a game could balance things around them, i.e. Boss X should push player 5% past their comfort zone, or even like a more complicated formula that takes into account emotional baselines and ability with which to deal with stress, etc... just imagine it's perfect, and you can perfectly scale the experience to each player. To me, that's a utopian horror, but theoretically that would end my argument against "Easy Mode". The case in point was a proposed slider to extend the input window for parries to compensate for muscular degeneration. I think if that can be done at a hardware level, it should be done, but in a game menu, why wouldn't I use it to to gain an advantage? Am I locked out of a good ending for using it? If so, we're back to square one. I use color blind accessibility options in Splatoon to gain advantage. Somewhere, at some point, I think we are all conflating difficulty with resolve, reflexes with knowledge, and skills with understanding. Dace from Shumptopia put out a great video the other day on Samurai Aces, talking about how much of the difficulty is actually an illusion that intimidates the player so much that they stop trying. And I think that's at the heart of the Easy Mode debate as I see it. I need to believe you are willing to hit that point of saturation, of testing your resolve, of banging your head, of losing hope and finding it again, and for that to happen, there needs to be a much better understanding of the resolve, dedication, and devotion that players can have for these games. We probably agree pretty deeply and it's just different attitudes from our POV and what we think other people are thinking. I really, really appreciate your comments! Consider them all solicited and appreciated and don't feel like you can't say whatever you feel. We'll do our best to understand each other in this limited medium of conversation, I'm sure :)
More seriously though. Once again, mate, a video of yours just fuels my passion to keep doing those games. There are too much amazingly good info and discussion here. Thank you!
As always, I absolutely loved this. Your insights are so well articulated, presented, and I largely agree with what you've said. I admit, I've never really thought of "gatekeeping" in that way and context and honestly, yeah. I think you're right. I've also found my solace away from the sort of bloated mainstream AAA empire of gaming in a secluded wilderness of mostly indie titles and retro games. I could go on in more detail about my thoughts after watching this like 2, 3 times? But the result would be a post as long as your video xD I am an ass enjoyer transwoman of taste and I approve this message!
Listen.. I’m not paying for the UA-cam servers you can post as many thoughts you have as long as you like!!! If you post fresh and not in a reply they come up whenever I check. I’m so glad this sung with you and you found the my thoughts on gatekeeping interesting. Indie/retro is such a good move. It is a wilderness and incredibly vast and dense and there’s just so much bandwidth for everybody and every thing. Thank you so much for watching my ass-sister of culture!!! lol
Your unique style, presentation and charm is peak Shmup content. Absolutely amazing video with that is well structured and feels smart. Do you produce all of your music by yourself which is used in your videos? I like your definition of casual, I would consider myself a more casual player as the Shmup "life style" isn't for me but I love to get down with a few and try to master them, at least a 1CC. The difference about being serious or not is something I have never thought of because I take shmups seriously and care about them.
I cut the part in the video but you’d probably appreciate it: I think serious/casual can expand beyond “playing” seriously. Like there are baseball fans that know every stat and where every player went to college, etc., but they’re not on the field. There are serious fans who play casually, thus still care very much about the integrity of the game. I don’t produce it past some loops and splices … I did the “nightcore” version of ‘Return of The Mack’ for this and a Beatles/Super Mario World mashup for my Sophstar video, but mostly just borrowing/sharing other people’s creativity - links in the description if you want to check them out:) If I could do it faster I would love too :)
I couldn't sit through 2 levels of this game. I was soured on it just by looking at gameplay footage and playing it myself just confirmed that it had nothing for me.
Great video! I agree with the points you made and I was wondering what do you think about helping the community to grow. What do you think the developer should do and how can the streamers/youtubers help?
Thank you so much!!! Let's just take for granted that gaming press is a lost cause, and I think to some degree popular UA-cam channels are like "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"... so you'd have to stumble into the niche and then you discover creators and the forums. It was creators like Junkie, Dace, Mark, etc. that got me in deep, so it's not like there's anything more than can do but stay wonderful and be found. For my part, my whole channel is about what it's like to be the player rather than focused on the game, and my thought is that it helps bridge the divide for new players and the level of expertise most content is at -- I'm still a novice in my hands despite the passion in my heart, but maybe that helps? I'm going to think about this more and get back to you.
" I'm very passionate about the hobby ... and I dont want to relate to it like that" - we should unpack this on another video some time :) I struggle with this as well - could probably get some great pointers from you, and maybe I can also help you shed some light on what feels like a form of rebellious justice that swells within you when you feel that urge to go say something about a game, good, bad, or otherwise, and actually why thats overall very good that everyone has an opinion on the game... ... I think the key thing that pisses us off ( as both passionate individuals ) - is when people go around the game and start talking about things that arent actually " the game " ... then its sort of like clear that they dont care about the game after all, they arent passionate, they just want to comment in that easy simile of "let me quickly compare this to ikaruga, write an article and we can be on our way" OR "I am acting out about something else and I'm going to use this game as my scapegoat to make a point about something entirely different". I wouldnt mind a zeitgeist of opinions from passionate people disagreeing and learning from each other - like true debate discourse - that is centered on the GAME, even absent its environment. I tried my best in my "review" NOT to comment on other games, I still fucked it up, I still did it, but my point was that, the MOMENT you invite a comparison, you're doing that review a disservice. its the easy way out. you're using the fucking " sports analogies " they use on the 100th floor of the sears tower with the CEOs... you're showing clearly that your passion for the subject is "believe me! some of my BEST FRIENDS are IKARUGA!" - though granted, clever explanation here can blunt the spear, it still hurts to me. - Although I dont agree with the ass / titty analogy necessarily (lol) - I fuck with your content - good shit and well worth the wait. The vibes are immaculate.
This is really great! I would love to talk about the sometime… after a much need break from narratives lol. Even my beloved Wukong is now “a thing” and I gotta keep away from all that so I can enjoy my wuxia literature monkey game. I used to try to avoid spoilers, now here we are lol Don’t know how much I can help but I’m intrigued about the rebellious justice! Sounds anime AF! Totally agree about the idea of passionate people disagreeing… not to get religious but that is the Talmud and a cornerstone of Hindu philosophy - people arguing trying to get to the meaning of the code. Internet don’t work like that though, and having an industry at the top of it rather than a community don’t help either. You don’t have to agree, but that’s the fun of it - bring a good disagreement or nuance and it sharpens my analogy or dulls it and it’s no use anymore. “Some of my best friends are Ikaruga!”. I am dead hahahahahhahaa
Metacommentary ;) Real talk, sorry you feel that way and for sure if you got a migraine!!! .. if you got that far in you gave it a shot. If you want a quick happy-go-lucky review of the game there's plenty on YT. I wanted to go somewhere else. Thanks for giving it a go anyway.
@@SpidersSTG ok i'll give you an actual comment lol. believe me i think the game looks poor and i wanted to see it ripped into, i just don't like the meandering "couch commentary" thing or the wacky editing. there's a lot of vids like that. it felt like fluff while i was waiting for your actual commentary on the game
@@evilfreak7 Fair enough! I mean, the Prologue in a sense IS commentary on the game, just under the guise of another game and I think sets up the question at the heart of the issue: does the developer of "identify" with the genre or are they using/abusing the expectations of the genre to "blow the gates open"? If you don't find that interesting, the video's not for you. If you did and I just did a poor job, then I'm genuinely sorry if I wasted your time. I put chapters and timestamps in if you want to skip to the breakdown and my opinion at 53:06, but now that I'm catching up on other videos and watched Aktane's, I'm glad I went in the direction I did because he covered the in-game issues much better than I did.
@@SpidersSTG sure, but I think the point could have been made in much less time. slowly reading through the steam posts and then peppering in those other gags grated for me. I did see the chapters yeah, but they're all named like ironic hardcore album tracks so my eyes glazed over them lol. thanks for replying
@@evilfreak7 I’m just not going to be for you then. Tech issues aside, this is my style, my thought process, and my humor coming through. I still appreciate the comments though and you giving it a shot.
@@SpidersSTG the mouse you're using is/was legendary in the early years of quake for its shape and decent enough performance. it was just amusing to me seeing it used for well, what it was actually intended for
@@nickalreadyinuse I looked up wmo as internet slang and it said “wanna make out” ☠️🤣 I got a black one too I love that mouse. Cherry MX makes an “ok” knockoff wired one too - better to go vintage and de-sticky them!
A bit of a slog, but I believe I get the overall message. Gaming should be about having fun, and if you had fun with Cyngi, more power to ya. Now do a video why if we gonna call shooters shmups, we should call bullethell dodgemups, seeing how the gameplay hook is keeping pacman safe, while the ship surrounding him is irrelevant .
Correction /Additional factoids - Bullethell not only makes the ships, airplanes, or giants irrelevant , but the weapon systems, environments, & enemy designs also are irrelevant when it comes to pacman escorting, in leu of having fun lol. Tell that fun hating Mark I said hey, Euroshmup for W, etc. etc. 🤣🤣👍
I definitely had fun with CYGNI and making the video, but that doesn’t excuse it’s problems… I had a blast with Battle of Aurinoxia too! Even more so because I had no expectations and there was no narrative to contend with. That’s interesting … I was just going through old notes and I’m not so sure that the “gaming should be fun” aphorism is true, or at least a good way to think. It’s like saying “food should be tasty”. I think gaming should be rewarding, and food should be nutritious, so if we just give up when we stop having fun, that’s pretty terrible advice for any journey be it relationships, projects, business…. I’m think aloud because you said it, but I think that mindset just serves the “play game move on” cycle that’s costing us a lot of money and dissatisfaction. I don’t get the PacMan thing with bullet hell, but I’d be open to it if you want chat or explain it to me better… I’m not super well versed in bullet hells but I have notice in some games or at least in some sections the “shooting” seems superfluous to the dodging and basically functions like a timer you hold down a button for. Touhou style games in particular - Outside games have some patterns where the boss is invincible and it’s just a timer. I enjoy them, but to your point it might be worth exploring more. Thanks for suffering the slog Ronnie! Would you believe I cut it DOWN to match the CYGNI clear runtime?
@@SpidersSTG Ha hah, you a good one I see. Pardon me Sir. Seems like when I see folks going into this stuff on a deeper level, I reminds me of Electric Playground always trying to divide us shmup lovers, always talking down to us unless we worship bullethell or wtf he's into on a particular day lol. I guess there's more guys like you & Shmuptopia, than him after all then. As for the pacman, I guess its actually called a hitbox. Again thank you for not hating for hates sake😊Now let's welcome folks to the genre, instead of silly purity tests, destined to run them off. Have a good one sir.
they maliciously took advantage of the ignorance that exists regarding STGs and exploited that blind spot with bad-faith marketing. they will be remembered as poachers of the genre rather than advocates of it. what a missed opportunity to educate. "missed' as in strategic misinformation.
It’s funny… I’d cite Hanlon’s Razor (don’t attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance) if they didn’t namecheck Dodonpachi (IGN) and RayForce (dev). I think the card for Part 4 (Devil Blade Reboot metacritic page) hits hard as well when you look at it that way…. and yet we in the garden are beyond blessed. This year for shmups has been amazing with many more in the coming months. Too many to keep up with!! SorecrialBladeCannon comes out in a few days - never even heard of it and it look very decent, for example.
@@SpidersSTG word the future feels bright, but this shit was gay as hell. i mean they are not dumb. made clever decisions at the expense of the thing they pretended to be supporting.
in interviews they said "we got a lot of help and feedback from the big creators and hardcore shmuppers" they ignored everything Mark and boghog has said, because they just used the community as a marketing tool, just to have a "seal of approval from the community"
@@samhein321 I held out hope based on the post-launch comments on the farm… I didn’t listen to Mark’s or Aktane’s video until after I finished mine, but wow after hearing Mark’s video and listening to the “formerly After Dark” podcast going into more detail of his exchanges with Keelworks, it’s hard not to think that. MAYBE Mahar was good-faith but got cucked by the team and the corporate dynamic? I might just be making that up in my head to be sympathetic though. There’s a “year in review” on ShmupBR’s channel where Shmup Junkie talks about play testing CYGNI and he set expectations as diplomatically as anybody could… I’d be very curious to here what he had to say about his interactions well. All this precludes the Epic deal… I actually dropped my whole conspiracy there but Mahar had posted that Konami already considered the game a success pre-launch, and to me that sounds like Konami only had to get enough hype up to sign a deal with Epic and cash out. Irregardless of the quality of the game, I think everybody got played.
I played Cygni in VR with the UEVR mod and Reshade Depth3D and had a blast! Looking forward to their next patch and perf optimization, and I'll reinstall the thing to maybe get that last cheevo about the arcade loop. There's a good balance between resource management and the last upgrades in hard difficulty, had to use the raygun with proper timing instead of spamming missiles. This is hands down the best shooter released this year. I wont buy Devil Blade NDA UA-cam DMCA Dystopia Edition, thank you, I just like my games with less legal threats and being able to upload gameplay videos as I see fit. Cygni's developpers sounds like decent people genuinely trying to do a good game and Unreal and its modding capabilities are also a strong point. I hope modders take an interest in the game.
That's really interesting... CYGNI is probably amazing to see in VR, and I'm wondering if what makes it so hard to swallow for an arcade player on a screen actually benefits it in VR??? I would put the pattern designer on a phone app though, that upgrade screen has to be a headache lol Between you and me, I'm WAY more concerned about the EULA in CYGNI. The language states they can go after my video if they don't like the content or how I presented it. Devil Blade REBOOT's notice was mistranslated and has since been changed to reflect a 'consideration' and explicitly says they will not go after any creators. Is modding a possibility at this point !?!?! THAT would be huge. If they updates they talked about to fix arcade mode and other issues don't pan out for serious players, that could be HUGE!!!!
@@SpidersSTG I don't buy this "translation mistake" a bit, they just backed off when they saw the bad PR brewing. For me, this almost reflects contempt to their customers. I can understand an EULA stating devs would protect themselves from slander by asking videos down, but Devil Blade's straight interdiction is simply hostile Karoshi bullshit. No way I'm gonna pay for that. Modding the game in VR is already a thing with UEVR, and with the mod comes camera tools to tweak the action. I set it to have the action zoomed out instead of the variable zoom levels people get playing in 16:9. The main problem there is performance and optimization, you can see level architectures rolling in and out several screens ahead and sometimes two or three screens wide, and enemies popping one screen ahead or still displayed despite having moved out the boundaries if they're not killed. Shooters that can be played in 3D VR are far and few. There are some old ones on 3DS you could emulate. I don't know what happened during Cygni's development, but there were dlls from oculus in the game files. Having two layers of action with ground/air units was far more instinctive and the gameplay a lot more legible with 3D depth. I suspect they tailored the game for a VR release but couldn't meet the level of optimization required to run it at 90 fps.
@@_oBSOLEte_ You might be right it was a change of heart - I have no idea. I feel like EULA backdoor to take videos they don't like down -- as if a EULA could be enforced -- is nastier, especially for people who do this for money. I see a lot of that kind of stuff from Japan as far as streaming goes and I don't like it either, but it at the very least seems like the whole concept doesn't translate they way it's meant.... polite society and all that. VR CYGNI sounds like a site to behold though even with some issues.. wow! I played Rez and Polybius and that was pretty amazing.
@@SpidersSTG I couldn't record it myself with the stereoscopic videos I usually make, the performance was too bad for that, no overhead to record, but here it is from a guy with a monster 4090 PC. ua-cam.com/video/DMn1pdOTNMA/v-deo.html Polite society... Shigatake just went full Nintendo. Think what you want of the games, I'd rather have Irishmen artists and programmers working in good conditions and well paid with Fortnite money than a single overworked salaryman who had to make a project he really liked during his spare time, and then the product being sold with hostile policies in places for those willing to advertise it for free. Fingers crossed for Cygni to get some attention from talented modders.
the fact that you think a lone person in their spare time ( in your own words ) has the ability to enforce legal threats ( which were NEVER legal threats - in my words, and in theirs), and disparage this individual's passion project to then lift up a western dev who has KONAMI backing, is the very definition of punching downwards - and I find it hard to trust anyone's opinion who decides that corporate interest is somehow going to be a good thing for any kind of art. In definition - the passion project will always be backed by me , and the corporate project will get a lot more scrutiny, and a lot less slack being that it is what it is. In this case it turns out its also a much much better video game but thats sort of besides the point. Your rebellious defiance of a lone japanese man who cant possibly enforce anything from their tiny apartment is noted, and unimpressive.
CYGNI looks not enough shmup-like to warrant a shmup fan's attention, and what you mention at 59:34 is probably the crucial point in CYGNI's design. Shmups reward a great amount of precision, attention to detail (e.g. enemy behavior) on the player's part to work with/around problems of precision, etc. CYGNI goes for the bullet sponge + progression approach where neither precision nor attention to detail is rewarded... with predictable results. 27:48 / 32:10 So it's not like a Cave game but it also doesn't revolutionize the gameplay so... what is left for CYGNI if it isn't either? That line alone was a huge red flag; unless the developer already had tons of experience developing shmups, this exposes a lack of clear vision as to what the experience they're aiming to create is. They are hardly filling a void already filled by twin-stick shooters. Regarding the narrative section and particularly 30:13, what's funny is that every single hardcore player must have played starting out as a casual, then found the challenge appealing and kept playing. Very few people are natural-born STG players like Clover-TAC. Everyone who stayed a "casual" must have figured out their time was better spent elsewhere. This also goes for the r/shmups section where 1 redditor claims CYGNI helps more shmups be produced, even though no hardcore shmup player is asking more more games like CYGNI. This was a productive dive into the game's reception vs. what it actually is, along with Mark's review; thanks SpidersSTG.
^ This guy chews bread and shmups!!! That's one of the most frustrating thing from my POV... the scoring, in my mind, is the clearest indicator of the developer's intent, and from there you can see there is little thought to it for a serious player. There is no reward for any of the things you mentioned. I felt like a speedrunner trying to extract fun from the game. You *could* try and put together these beautifully routed runs of stages with clever use of the pattern designer and minimal damage, but for what? If dev don't care, why should player!? That line was interesting... and made me think there was something else going on. Why the claim to revolutionize a genre -- and worse completely overlook Drainus, Schildmaid, ∀kashicverse, etc. that are expanding the territory rather than toppling it -- when you don't even think you are? I'm a fan of RayForce too, but I don't have enough knowledge to get past Stage 3 with my ass, let alone riff on it. I think the "well, you cleared it so you don't need me to tell you why it's good?" line in the forum post just cut to right to the bone. (I couldn't deliver it right in the "cruel to be kind" segment so I cut it:/ ) 100% spot on what you're saying about 'casuals'... though I disagree their time is better spent elsewhere -- I think they think that and are gravely mistaken, to the benefit of designers and publishers who want to keep people looking forward to new things to be satisfied instead of with what they have at hand... I tried tied that to Matt's mindset. I'm so glad you watched it and it sung with you. I kept "pure" from Mark's video while making this but I can't wait to check it out now!!!
This is an earnest criticism of the video, I hope it doesn't come across as rude: please, improve your audio recording. This is the third time UA-cam recommends me your channel (previously the Angel at Dusk and Devil Blade Reboot videos) and I'm sure your analyses are very valuable -that's why I keep clicking on them-, but I always have much difficulty listening to them, to the point I normally drop the videos before they finish. You have this way of speaking rather far away from the microphone so that the recording has a "distant" quality and not all the sounds you utter seem to be properly registered by the device. Furthermore, the mixing is such that the tracks of game recorded audio that play thorough are nearly as loud as the voice thus further obfuscating the listening experience, specially if I increase the output volume attempting to discern your words more clearly. This may seem a silly complaint but to me this is not just a small nuisance, rather a significant obstacle that makes it really hard to follow your speech through all that noise. I think simply pushing the mic closer to the source would much enhance the quality of the main audio track, or -though the end result wouldn't be as good- just tinkering the audio mixing so that the music/bangbangboom tracks are quieter would help too. I hope this is taken into account in future videos, thanks for the shmuping.
Not rude at all!!! I’m trying to do a lot of things with volume intentionally, but it gets messed up because of issues like you mention so I am working on it! Spent most of yesterday trying to fix exactly what you said with compressors, limiters, noise reduction, etc., plus I have a ton of technical issues… not excuses at all but it piles up and ultimately I don’t have the resources to re-record so I have to massage it… if you can tell me where in the video you lose patience and what speakers youre listening on it would be a big help. Thanks for sticking around while I work it all out!
@@SpidersSTG Glad to read you're working on it! In this video, the very prologue was already a very difficult listen, I had to struggle to process the words while ignoring the bullets and the massive bass, like holding a phone conversation next to a running jet engine. So I skipped forward and at around 6:29 there was another roadblock: I don't know what's going on there but I feel like I'm being psychodrilled. Part 2 is much easier to my ears, but it still sounds a bit as if the audio was being highly compressed through some online voice chat software rather than being as pristine as an original recording could be, so I need to focus on the video more than I normally do to be able to mentally process it (i.e. I can't work while listening to it hahaha). I'm using a pair of Mackie CR4 studio monitors, and the audio is being processed by an AOC monitor plugged to my laptop via HDMI. Looking forward to your next upload!
@@gazurmah3133 6:29 that was the effect I was going for, but don't mean I did a good job of it. The "psychodrill" only worked on some speakers so I cranked it to make sure it worked on a phone too, but stayed under UA-cam -14 LUFs. The rest should be a better level besides loud transitions, but yeah tons of compression to mask issues with recording... trust me you don't want the 'pristine' version lol... one section the recording didn't take so I had to juice the iPhone mic recording - it's a mess. I'm also trying to figure out ways to make people watch and not listen like a podcast, but again - doesn't mean I'm doing a good job so I really appreciate it. I do care and I put in effort, I just failed at it. Looks like this video is might reach a level and if so I'll probably invest in a dedicated audio recording setup -- if it matters to people I'll put more effort in to the audio for sure. Would you be cool if next video I sent you an early preview to listen to?
@@SpidersSTG I don't believe you failed to meet the goal of the video being watched as a video rather than playing like a radio show as the montage always suited what was being said at the moment, but if the intention was for the whole duration to be eyeballed then that is very ambitious considering the length and the format. Of course, each has their own way, but I think the amount of people who will set aside over an hour of free time to single-mindedly watch a game discussion is always going to be a strictly and significantly smaller subset of the total of viewers/listeners as well produced as it might be -butt perhaps more of those 1:13:30 analogies would raise the success rate. On that account, the reason why I wrote my first comment was precisely that I noticed a mismatch between the quality of the video editing and writing -both very carefully crafted- and the audio. I don't have any formal training in the field and I certainly didn't expect this to be the outcome of the conversation, but if you think my setup is relevant then I'd be happy to help a shmup channel blossom by acting as a lab rat for your Havana syndrome research; so yes, I would be glad to check a preview of your next video project :)
Hope the stereotypes of SHMups will be removed. It's rarely to see people discussing Euro SHMups (e.g. : Sky Force, Jets 'n' Guns, Uragun) in SHMup forums. Many stereotypes that SHMup games must be Japanese style SHMup games, those are thick with "arcade machine" systems and nuances, fast clear time, and must do 1cc gameplay in hardest difficulty.
Maybe? but I don’t think CYGNI in its current state isn’t doing it any favors. I don’t know how far you got into the video, but 1:09:52 I try and make a case for “shmups as a hobby” as a deeper level, and if a Euroshmup can access that level of depth it should be accepted if not embraced by the shmup community, if not, then it’s pretty clear where the boundaries are and shmups can have their innovations and Euroshmup fans have their access point to the “pure” genre. I can’t rock with SkyForce because of the debt economy grind meta, but I think games like Operation S.T.E.E.L., Drainus, Schildmaid to some degree, Ginga Force, Angel At Dusk, etc., show us it’s not the “red flags” that are necessarily the issue, but how they are applied and what they offer… I think it is fair to say a lot of developers use them to fix a problem they don’t understand and then fall in love with the solution because it in itself is something novel or engaging, but it doesn’t serve the core game it hurts it, or in SkyForces case, replaces it with an economy game. Maybe better for Euroshmup fans to own the label and enjoy them for what they are? Doom-clone was a disparaging term and now it’s one of the most popular genres and kicked shmups off of “shooter”.
@@SpidersSTG Yeah, not too great for Cygni. Earlier HD SHMup like R-Type Final 2 is better, but there are some Cygni's potentials to surpass the stereotypes, counterbalance other SHMup games, and stand as new good HD game to adapt & compete the game markets.
Hahaha I think it would rot my brain!!! Maybe one day lol…. titty men are also welcome hahahaha Where was the music too loud? It’s intentional in the Prologue with Battle of Aurinoxia… I struggle with it a lot but tried to listen to this on different speakers including headphones, phone, my car, a shitty soundbar… if you could tell me where and what you listen on that would help for future videos:)
I am very interested in the topic but the video here was MUCH too long for me personally and the acoustics were difficult - I had to listen very concentrated because the music was often too loud compared to the speech. in the end I stopped - too bad
Hey Tobias! Would you mind telling me where in the video? In the Prologue section it’s deliberate (though maybe not the best idea)… up until about 08:15 but after that if you can’t hear clearly, I messed up! It would help me a lot in the future.
i want to enjoy and understand this video but its an edited catawumpus mess. It feels like pieces of a video that needed a final gloss over and structure without the gen z cutaways. You need to not put of something thats just freeform webdiving and on the fly reading and compose something that contains pieces of something you are trying to say because all i see is a really expensive beautiful shmup and dont understand what is being saved when your just arguing against trolls and critics. You take way too long getting to points and that background music is distracting away from your video. Its a shame because i want to understand the points and i dont want to sit through an 83 minute video for maybe a 20-30 min tops video. I am saying this as someone who loves watching several hour retrospectives by Majuular and Dungeon Chilll.
That's fair -- I think if you don't like the style that's fine. If I failed in the style then I need to work on something. It seems to have landed with some people so I'm kind of inclined to think it's just a mismatch for you and I. 1) There is definitely a structure... A. chronologically: 1) pre-Cyngi release Euroshmup retrospectively does the same thing. 2) early code reviews 3) gamers get in hand on launch 4) I get in hand from Epic. B. The narrative: 1) pre-launch, 2) launch, 3) post-launch, 4) personal play through. What "saved" means in the video is first the narrative pushed on us from the publishers and media, later it refers to "the code", then the genre as I see it, and then to myself from the media cycle of abuse. I like Dungeon Chill a lot but I'm not trying to make videos like his. I just started doing this a year ago and for sure my reach exceeds my grasp, but I want to make fun videos to take time and watch, not things to listen to while doing something else. I don't like that I watch a lot of UA-cam while doing something else, and I'm trying to figure out a way to make things I would carve out time for to watch. I've been doing this for less than a year and my reach definitely exceeds my grasp, but that's the idea. "Gen Z" cutaways were intentional as a theme of the video is the undercurrent of ageism in the modern narrative (if it's not obvious, I'm not a spring chicken). I get the BGM is not for everybody. I like it... honestly I'd like it louder and try to mix like a DIY punk album, but at the same time I use to cover bad audio noise too. It's hard to get a read because some people enjoy it or at least don't mind. I definitely need to improve audio quality to make sure it's deliberate and not just messing up! Either way I appreciate you watching whatever you manage to make it through, and commenting.
this is aimed at people who followed the whole cygni-drama. understandable that it may feel confusing if you expected just another review. he just brilliantly visualized the mixed feelings some (*cough) got from the journey that was cygni. ❤
Thats the problem, you have to explain that rather than have a video that is more understandable. Whatever you do is fine but Im probably not the only person who feels this way and remember that anyone can just find a video in the middle of whatever drama and if you want people to be informed oyu need to treat a video as if someone who has no idea whats going on or have something for people to point to first.
@@blindseerurzabro, just to be sure: you realized that it was not the creator of this video who also answered your post? just to make sure you don't mix something up, cause it sounds like you did. anyway, my 2ct to this new comment: way too many "you need to" and "you have to" for my taste... but again, that's just me... not him.
@@blindseerurza That’s fair, but I think you see the divide in the comments here people who get it GET IT, and that’s who I was thinking would really enjoy what I have to add to the convo that ElectricUnderground, Aktane, VinuShmup, etc., aren’t already doing and doing better. I have someone I screen videos for who knows almost nothing about the genre and certainly none of the inside baseball and that’s my litmus test for “is it still entertaining for the non-initiated?”. The first ten minutes was definitely a hump but I was confident people who knew the game and narrative would feel it viscerally. I still think it works. Maybe I’m being stubborn? Maybe just these “rant” style videos are going to have some expectations you already know what I’m on about?? I’ll keep this all in mind for the future - honestly really appreciate you’re still sticking around and commenting.
Genres, especially those that are small and undervalued, need foundational criteria for clarity and survival. It's those criteria that actually encourage innovation. The whole point of genres is to serve as guideposts for the expansion of personal taste. The idea that a genre should alter its standards in order to “grow” (i.e. include you) is a fairly entitled one. You’re essentially asking the genre to expand ("evolve") so that you don’t have to. What’s strange is that it’s the kind of sentiment most gamers would find silly in other mediums. I love film. I have a deep appreciation for horror. But, I don’t watch many horror films bc I’m a scaredy-cat. If I argued that horror films need to stop “gatekeeping” and be less scary so they can ‘grow the genre,’ horror fans would politely (and rightfully) tell me to F off.
That a really good point! It’s kind of funny too that movies have no problem lifting and borrowing and blending genres in ways precisely because they do respect the language and fundamentals of the genre. Like, Ghostbusters can play with horror elements and even in a way “gateway”, but nobody would give oxygen to a claim it revolutionized the genre by making horror accessible. I’m in the same horror boat lol! every once in a while I get brave, but eventually something gets to deep under my skin and I nope the hell out. And like you, I wouldn’t have it any other way! I wonder if your like me too where if you do stumble upon an “accessible” horror movie that doesn’t scare you very badly, you’re kind of bummed out. I think what your saying in the first paragraph is really interesting to, because at the end of the day, it shouldn’t really matter if what you enjoy adheres to a genre orthodoxy. It does serve to inform your personal taste, guide you, and ultimately have a better understanding. I don’t get why people who dig Euroshmups or those design choices don’t just own it and celebrate it and build their own garden. Why always try and “blow the genre wider”? I always end up with a very cynical answer to that. I’m just thinking too about how you will never find a shortage of horror fans who will recommend anything and everything they can to get you into the genre! And they will slam things they think will turn you off to whole enterprise. Niche genres in and of themselves are very special:) Thanks so much for checking out the video Drogba! Great comment!
i barely play shooting games (in the process of trying to fix this!! i will see stage 4 of ibara kuro some day soon ...), but this is an excellent video. echoes a lot of thoughts i (as an fps dweeb) had about doom 2016. scratch needledrop stapled a smile to my face too :) great work shout out to man titties though
Thanks Myrrh! That’s really interesting… I’m VERY casual about FPS, had no idea Doom ‘16 might be received that way. From the outside it did look like that kicked off the “boomer shooter” wave though, and maybe did some course correction for bloated AAA FPS?? Would love to hear your thoughts on it. Also shout out man titties lol… maybe a vid in the future hahaha
SpidersSTG oh man uhhhh. at risk of going on for twelve paragraphs, i found doom '16 deemphasized a lot of the vestigal dungeon crawl vibe of doom '93 & quake (which had a lot of design heritage from games like gauntlet and ultima underworld) in favor of Combat Rooms connected by hallways, and then leaned way too much on getting "game progression" via i think literally 9 different upgrade systems instead of level design. they wanted to make the game rewarding and thus structured the game around Rewards (secret hunting was basically mandatory at higher difficulties because that was how you unlocked a bunch of basic combat verbs, which also meant secrets couldn't be actually secret - they would marked them on the map before you even found them!). it at least had a good combat system, but even that was based more on the "rip & tear" meme (which comes from a very bad, nearly-forgotten-until-lowtax-needed-something-to-post-to-planetquake marvel promo comic from 1996 that had no involvement from anyone who worked on the original game) instead of direct reflection on the original game's "oh god i'm lost, oh god there's monsters, what resources can i afford to expend on these monsters" loop. a good chunk of the current "boomer shooter" wave, and many a writer+youtuber, took that misinterpretation and ran with it, and as a result i don't care for most of those games. but that's why i'm playing stg now, so it's not all bad :)
Risk was rewarded! Great write-up! I’d read this article or watch this vid lol. Really good points and even if my Doom experience is Doom 32X > 100 years > Doom 2016 this all rings completely true. I guess being casual I didn’t notice, but the silly unlocks and “not secrets” I just backgrounded haha. Thinking of Doom as panic in a dungeon is really interesting.
I was initially worried that the video would be just 80 minutes of roasting reviewers and ranting about how much the game sucks, but you actually connected it all to your larger theme of gatekeeping and the state of shmups overall. It's rare that gaming videos try to say anything beyond if a game is worth purchasing so I really appreciate this. You have a cool style both in terms of video editing and the actual writing, keep up the good work.
Thanks Oop Soop! I really appreciate you appreciate it!!! On some level you make the things that you would like to see being made, and it’s a wonderful feeling to find we’re not alone.
I definitely feel like getting into shmups got me out of that “worth it” thumbs up / thumbs down mindset - like how many games have I put dozens of hours into and just felt empty but maybe entertained? Too many! And then grabbing like Andro Dunos 2 on sale for $6 and getting the hundred plus hours and so much more than entertainment or what I could even expect for entertainment… it’s ridiculous to ask the question at that point lol. It’s worth everything.
I really appreciate the compliment and you sticking it out through a long ass video!
"It's my sleepover and I get to choose the movie"
Definitely mood
Game journalists be like "unlike space invaders, cygni has a sstory and many buttons to attack enemies, it will revolutionize the genre"
Great video, subscribed and shared.
hahahaha would be funny if it wasn't so awful
This video is the best thing to come out of Cygni.
Not only do you make the most entertaining shmup content on UA-cam, you also put out a lot of interesting thoughts and reflections on things outside the game itself. I really resonate with the gatekeeping part. Keep up the good work. ☕
What a compliment THANK YOU!!! I was nervous about doing the gatekeeping segment so I'm RELIEVED it sung with you. It's wild to me how that term gets used to go after people who love, care for, and consider the integrity of things. Meanwhile at Actual Gatekeepers Secret Lair...
Damn, I wasn't expecting a feature-film length Spiders rant!
All I can say is, it was worth the wait, and can stand as the ultimate final word on the subject (with a few other subjects for good measure).
Thanks BB! Hope your not just saying that because you got mentioned ;) I haven’t watched anyone’s review yet besides Vinu’s yet so that means a lot it can stand up like that!
I don't know how I ended up here, I haven't played a shmup this century, but hell, I like whatever's going on here.
The Shmup Gods are calling you back home!!!! 👾🙌👾 hahaha
I’m so glad you liked the video!
Ha the recieving the product for free joke got me 😂
Hahahaha I hope you dig the Paramore reference - I thought Mark is the only one who will know this song lol
Standing god damn applause over here. That was an absolutely stellar video. Your ability to create a thoughtful long-form narrative that is laced with some truly unique and thoughtful takes, that stays consistently paced, while being entertaining, and artistically fascinating... damn man, it's remarkable. You're the King Tubby of the STG video space, hands deep in the machine, tweaking the dials and discovering ways to tell what we all struggle to show. Excellent work!! #STGnotded
Oh wow Christian!! 🙇🙇 Not worthy!! The King Tubby of STG Video Space is the coolest thing anyone has ever said so I will take that one for sure hahahaha
No joke you are exactly who I had in mind when I was thinking of “gateway people” and the “how many people are trying to figure out how to share the feeling”… RayForce vid was so damn clever but I didn’t want to put you on the spot though hahaha
This comment meant a lot to me thank you so much brother!!!
Letting you know I'm watching the thing for the second time now. This is Excelente!
Hell yeah DG!! I hope it holds up the second time around :)
i had a rollercoaster of emotions with this game and it's development... as a final thought there is nothing left than quoting myself "Cinematic Shmup my a$$". really enjoyed your video, subscribed!
Thanks brother! I ended up cutting a whole segment “The Ballad of AntiramDSR”, but I hope you caught the special thanks in the credits.
I think your “rollercoaster” was the story for just about all of us. I checked the farm yesterday while finishing and I saw your last post… haven’t watched Mark’s video yet but wow if there’s still more drama
@@SpidersSTG "The Ballad..." love that title :D well, i think most of my double-180°-move honestly came from feeling really bad for the constant shitting on the devs... there was a comment in the forum about "everyone beeing all over the place", which really left me questioning the entire threat and my own way of approaching it. than i forced myself to get into the game as openminded as possible and... well... uuhm... it worked for 6 hours but then... nope :)
on top of it: the utter blatant ignorance from those devs... i just can't stand them anymore
Gosh, this was a nice watch! Your thoughts/definitions on casuals and gatekeeping felt eye-opening (especially the bit about Dark Souls and you getting to experience memorizing the layouts due to its demands and difficulty), delving into getting people into shmups via gateway people as opposed to gateway games was interesting, it was neat to hear some takeaways from CYGNI despite its shortcomings and have a bit of faith in the game's future, I enjoyed the intro skit and general editing throughout the video, and it was cute to see your cats roaming around and sometimes getting in the way (affectionately) as you recorded. .u.
Thank you so much Note!!! I’m so glad you dug my thought process on those… I always get worried I’m going out on a limb haha
See you have a channel - can’t wait to check it out! I have Soundodger but never played it yet. Going to check that one out ASAP :)
fun fact: this video lasts exactly the same as 1 cygni loop
meta commentary!!!
"Don't ask me what to do with Virtua Fighter 6... I don't know... I have no idea."
LOL
It’s true lol I’m trash at VF
This guy needs his own late-night show.
"I chew bread and eat shmups" has two meanings: Masticare also means to "smatter", so its describing the crumbs as bullets. Also you play so much, you play as you eat.
Very cool! I love learning about idiomatic language like that but I feel like now when I try and look stuff up it’s all listicles and AI generated content. Hope my Italian was funny and not ear-grating lol
Super interesting video, love that you focused on the discussion surrounding the game and the concept of "gatekeeping" in general
Thanks IoM! Gatekeeping and “gatekeeping” is something I think about a lot and this game ended up exemplifying the problems I have… I was locked and loaded for it but wasn’t planning on doing a video like this for quite a while. I’m so glad you enjoyed it!!!!
"You don't have to dodge them all. Just dodge the ones that are gonna hit you." That's going to be stuck in my head for weeks. Poetry.
This might just be your best work so far, Spiders!
Oh wow thank you Michiel!!!
It’s baffling the developer didn’t look at Qute’s Ginga Force and Natsuki Chronicles as references. Fascinating video Spiders! 🍌👾☕🚀🍯
Right? I’m not in love with the upgrade systems in those either, but they’re fun at every level and offer fixed arcade and and arcade style modes as well and you never feel like your not playing the game. I’m almost positive you can clear either without upgrades.
spiders ate and left no crumbs🕸️🪰🕸️
💅🍷
Amazing video Spiders! I really like your style of editing, a bit "chaotic", makes me feel I'm in your brain 😁. I mean in your thinking process. Very interesting "Gatekeeper" part.
Ps: Your cats are so cute 😻
Merci Vinu !!! Cette vidéo était très "dans mon cerveau". Je suis content que cela ait été amusant d'être là pendant une heure ! Les chats apprécient les compliments. Ils sont le TLB dans tous les shmup auxquels je joue, bloquant l'écran et appuyant sur les boutons.
Man, every video you make is like a personal ad for the exact type of person I want to be friends with. You good.
Thanks Laquerware!!! That’s how I feel when I make this stuff - sharing with friends, like making a mixtape or a home movie! Internet friends rock!
man, this video is a ride. couldn't agree more with your take on "gatekeeping," and i'm right there with you on your closing comments about media spin. the ign live presentation was my first exposure to the game, and "cinematic" being the first word on the game has brought along a lot of baggage. i got it for free and hope to someday enjoy it (in spite of my many issues with it), but for now my head is too full with all the things that cyngi has been touted as for me to take it as it is.
Glad you checked out the video because it sounds like we’re of the same mind! I would do the same thing I’m doing to… wait for updates to shore up the arcade and scoring, then skip the upgrade system and have at it.
You’re doing a meet the player???
I’m stoked for that tbh!
Yessir! Not sure when it’ll be available on Shmuptopia but yeah - Dace blew my mind once or twice:)
Hii! What a cool video. I'm not really interested in the game itself, but you talked about much more than that (and with good humor) and made me realize its an interesting case. Much of the situation is applicable to communities and culture in general. Great take.
Thank you! I wasn’t even planning to make a video for this but when I saw how the game was received and the discussion around it a lot of broader things I was thinking about all seemed to relate really nicely. I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
This was my favorite movie this year.
“I’d like to thank my cats, the academy, and Hollywood for lowering the bar so much.”
Seriously though thank you Agus! I’m beyond flattered and massively relieved anyone stuck it out that long:)
@@SpidersSTG Looking foward to see what else you will come up with. I thank UA-cam for recommending this fantastic channel.
@@Agus-wp2cc Sometimes the algo provides hahaha. I’m so excited your in for the ride! I have a ton of stuff planned and the feedback from this vid gives me confidence for some things I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to do so even more stuff now hahaha.
@@SpidersSTG Happy to know! The way this video was made felt unique.
"My favorite is Dodonpachi, but I also like more modern shmups, like Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga."
That IGN guy talks about it as though Treasure made their games at the tail end of the genre's lifespan, but the truth is that Radiant Silvergun and Dodonpachi came out within one year of each other, and Ikaruga was released a decade before Cave stopped making arcade games.
That namedropping line was definitely a “say shibboleth” to my ears lol. Xevious and RayForce would have made tons more sense to name check but Gradius/Life Force because Konami.. what a lucky coincidence they’re his favorites!
Easy work to make things modern and new if you ignore history lol
An offhand pull in a live interview setting being used to make a point about the "intentions" of the interviewer is weak tea.
@@EnfieldsMikeP Weak Tea > Kool-Aid IGN is the largest media conglomerate in the largest entertainment industry. I think their role is gatekeeping and they were delivering a narrative. If you think it’s cool bros just hanging in the cut on a couch talking shop, I don’t know what to tell you. The only “offhand pull” I went for was visually highlighting what I perceived as Mahar’s frustration being talked over by the Konami marketing director with the “reinvent the genre” narrative he had distanced himself from on the Shmups Forum earlier (later in the video).
You can think it’s a stretch or that I’m making too much fuss, but I think the burden is on you to convince me every word in that interview wasn’t practiced, crafted, and approved by all parties prior with the intention of delivering a narrative payload. It’s literally their job.
@@SpidersSTG where does the bilderberg group figure into this one, Alex?
Probably a little less tinfoil hat than my kooky conspiracy theory that the largest media conglomerate in the largest market of the largest entertainment industry in the world doesn’t leave a lot to chance.
Look, the devs were definitely using gameshark to test Gradius III, but in 2024... devs, you gotta be able to at least 1cc something you made...
100% … or at least elevate the input and feedback of those who could. If devs don’t understand the depth of their own game, I don’t know where they expect players to find it.
What did I just stumble into? My man, this was incredible. The flow, the poetry, the callbacks to previous sections to emphasize points, relating the hobby to life itself, it's all incredible. It comes off as both completely improvised and yet scripted and polished all at once. I've gotta see what else you've made and will stick around for a while.
Small pieces of feedback because while I came out of this loving it, I did get lost in the beginning:
1. Audio levels for the sound effects in The Battle of Taxonomia made it so hard for me to understand you that I had to watch with subtitles. Not a big deal, but from an audio perspective my guess is that the mids in your vocal track are a bit oversaturated while the highs aren't emphasized enough, which caused the 8-bit sounds to run right over them.
2. At 6:15 you started running some text alongside reading a review that had some really good points about taxonomy. I really couldn't tell whether I should read the words or listen to the review and had to rewind that part a bunch and keep pausing. My advice would be to throw a low pass filter on your voice and slowly ratchet it down if the review is pointless and you want the words to be the focus. Or, if you want us to hear/see both, just playing the text after would have been great. It would have really driven the point of the reviews home as a follow up.
Anyway, thanks again for making this. Can't say anything else the 100+ comments here haven't already said. Aside, I guess, from shouting out to the people that wrote them, because on top of the excellent video, the conversations below it are great and I read them all.
OMG THANK YOU!!! I’m so glad you stumbled onto this is and it connected!!! Also - YES THANK YOU for the audio notes… I think you’re right with the EQ I couldn’t figure it out in my ears.. I moved all the source files of to download Wukong but I’m to experiment with that I think you’re right!! I did want to kind of keep people off-balance in the prologue and split their attention - kind of like a shmup actually - and know that you mention it I think my plan was to do “tiktok” style one word subtitles over that part but I forgot or bailed on it - either way I’m really glad you got through the “filter” lol.
Again thanks for checking it out and the great comment! Made my day:)
To answer the question on younger money: Generally speaking, the younger person's $30 is more valuable because they have more life ahead of them to come back and respend as they get older. It's a big reason why children's franchises tend to be the biggest selling franchises of all time. People get exposed to Pokemon at a young age, they love it, may be they grown out of it, may be they don't, but they probably expose their kids to it and suddenly Nintendo and GameFreak have captured someone's spending as both a child (through their parents) and as an adult.
It's also worth mentioning that targeting younger money shapes the tastes of future old money. Shaping those tastes away from Cool but low-margin genres into still cool but super high-margin genres is totally a part of the strat.
100% great answer! I think your right, and I think that highlights the issue I have here as well. That would all happen as a natural process. So, why force it? I’m tongue-in-cheek when I’m calling it ageism, but I do think an effect of (or purpose of) of gatekeeping is breaking the intergenerational channels of communication and maintaining a top-down influence.
I think it’s telling that most players I see in the speedrunning community are too young to have grown up with the games they play, for example, or that even for myself I’m playing games now that I technically could have grown up with, but didn’t because of how I was influenced by the media of my day.
Thanks so much for the comment Punch Party!!! It gave me a lot to think about:) I’m working on another “media theory” video about nostalgia and progress and your thoughts are really helpful for trying to understand what I think.
Looking forward to checking out your channel too! You ever think about making videos again??
@@SpidersSTG I think the relative youth of speed runners also points to the general impotence of gatekeepers and the accusations there of. There aren't any real gates, only keepers and few, if any of them have meaningful ability prevent people who really want to engage with something.
Video essays are always a hobby that's floating in the back of my mind since I like toying with different ideas. Though I don't really have anything concrete planned at the moment.
Okay, finished the entire thing. Well thought after!
You know, as I dive into more arcade-minded designs and develop my own games, I grew more cynical to the RPGs in particular the progressions. There is no skill in just making the numbers up then do the numbers check to give you the illusion of progress. That's just mindless work. For the arcade-minded thrillseekers, that's bad game design. Yet there are still people who like them. I'm kinda glad that some RPGs are tight, precise challenges with well-tuned balance compared to the expected progression, but to succeed you need to cater to both these number suckers (Casuals) and battle freaks (Hardcores) Then there is one more piece of puzzle to consider: Cozy games. They are almost naught of challenge. Very easy. Very accessible. No time limit. Everyone is welcome. But no high-stake thrills. That's the point. Very popular.
I think, ultimately, what these journalists and casuals like to seek are cozy games. Arcade games, in particular shmups, are the complete opposite of cozy.
No shade to cozy games, certainly. But mindlessly cozifying arcade games will lead to disaster. Even Ginga Force and Natsuki Chronicles had a hard time with their grind economy. It's just these games are already solid at their foundation.
Typical RPG systems make perfect sense when applied to their original functions. In dungeon crawlers, for example, your manual skills don't matter, what matters is your ability to plan your dungeon raids. Dungeon Crawlers wouldn't make any sense if there wasn't a limit to how deep you can go into the dungeon before you have to go back and look for better items, new spells and skills, new organizations for your party, etc. It's basically a game for those who like to make plans and find solutions to problems.
This concept itself is interesting, which is why you see so many games trying to take advantage of it. Dark Souls is basically an action game, but it will impose a limit on your progress (at least if you're a normal player) that will force you to enter the “planning” phase, and make an appropriate build for your character. Even shmups like Natsuki Chronicles use the same logic, since the story mode is brutal precisely to force you to experiment with different configurations for your ship, again, it's a way of making the player stop advancing to plan his next “raid”.
Of course, there are "evil" applications of this same logic. I think Vampire Survivors is one of the best examples, since it also limits the player like dungeon crawlers do, but the intention is not to make the player create a strategy, try out different solutions, plan their next moves... the intention is literally to make the player make numbers grow, because the more they grow, the longer the player survives, and the longer they survive, the more they are able to make numbers grow, in a mindless cycle that takes advantage of addiction to engage the player.
In short: RPG systems exist to add a “problem-solving” element to the game, which may or may not be welcome, depending on the type of experience you're looking for. It's not intrinsically good or bad, except in the case where the system is not accompanied by the “problem-solving” element, as in Vampire Survivors, a game that I genuinely think is bad for people's mental health, lol.
@@jpa3974 Great comment, I think shmup players often miss the appeal of well-designed RPG systems, and dungeon crawlers like Wizardry are the quintessential good example. Of course, I think shmups are better off without any of it, but games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter would not be nearly as interesting if they didn't have a preparation phase outside of combat that forces the player to think ahead and make decisions about their character.
I also love that you brought up Vampire Survivors as a negative example; I played that game for hours due to the hype around it but stopped because it made me feel like a lab rat, and only later found out that the lead dev got his start programming in the gambling industry lol
@@islandofmelanat Having RPG elements in shmups can be done correctly. In a pure arcade setup, it can be as mild as just use them as a skin-suit. Cotton's and Batsugun's "levels" are merely power up Lv's to the shots and in practice their DPS doesn't get affected that much. Some are on the insanely precise end, like Radiant Silvergun where scoring is mandatory for comfortable DPS. Psyvariar is on the less precise extent but determines the stage branches that you can enter. I like it when the RPG part is part of the routing plan. But it can get quite easy to mis-calibrate without rigorous testing.
This is a wonderful comment!
I was a big RPG fan and I've completely lost my taste for it... I actually cut a section about the taxonomy of "blobbers" and how dungeon crawlers are no Diablo-likes and Wizardry style games have the only name for their genre stupider than shmups. There *is* fundamentals to RPGs, but I'm afraid I don't know enough to dig into it and it's been completely lost and paved over by the big developers who still develop for the genre.
I did pull some things for CYGNI from a VS video I'm playing with, and I totally agree that "cozy" is something that is highly valued right now -- but! I think it's gaming methadone... or maybe worse, Suboxone. They completely subvert, then replace the player/game natural reward system and replace it with the lowest possible dosage drip. Frogs think slow boiling pots of water are cozy, ya know?
My "cozy" game is Operation S.T.E.E.L., because I don't have to route it or plan much, just pure shoot and dodge with lite "upgrade" considerations, and something like Unicorn Overlord might relax my reflexes somewhat an engage my planning brain.
"Cozy" games just trade the reward system for "Time On Site" and other app design KPIs... that's how I see it anyway... spoiling upcoming videos lol!!!
I love that term "cozification"... I will be filing the serial numbers off of that one!
Agree Ginga Force and Natsuki Chronicles were the noble attempt at these ideas, and I do think they fell flat for a lot of players... myself included considering how much I adore Eschatos.
Thank you SO MUCH for watching the whole video!!!! Consider the post-credits self-humiliation your prize :D
@@islandofmelanat 100% this... please read my reply to the above comment. Discovering shmups kind of clued me into the idea of "fundamental" genres, and I've been messing around with blobbers and Wizardry-likes.
Do you have a link for the VS dev coming from gambling!?!?!? I would love that for the VS video I'm working on!!!!
great video man ! really enjoyed your thoughts and very interesting presentation. Lots of big-brained stuff going on here.
thanks for the shoutout at the end - gotta get back to the grind to finish it!
i can hardly wait! the demo is absolutely killer.
Hahaha I think I cut the part where I prayed it comes out this year… no pressure! Plenty to enjoy in the meantime but I’m very looking forward to it and hope other people check out your demo.
@@qwertyuiopqwerqwererty it really is!!!!
@@SpidersSTG Had some personal setbacks - namely lost my job beginning of July. You'd think I'd have more time - nope less. Wife is working more to pick up the slack, so I'm on dad duty - also the jump hunting process is brutal. I spent 6hours this weekend on a take home tech exam (to get rejected without even a phone call).
Feature wise, the game is done - it's down to the endless refinements, level tweaks, boss design updates. etc. Don't want to release it with half-baked design. The amount of time/energy it takes to design shmup levels and bosses is INSANE. Like the shear density, no margin for error, you have to tweak things just so.
@@figamesstellarfury That’s really tough - but yeah take all the time you need! But not more than you need lol.
If it comes out in a week or a year it’s going to be just as exciting for everyone.
I think that’s not the first time with those 6 hour+ job exams for you right? Or maybe I read that about someone else too??? That’s a crazy thing in your field…. it’s got to be so frustrating.
Best of luck with everything shmupdaddy, I’m rooting for ya!!!
Dude this video is so good! Thank you so much!
12:44 had me SCREAMING bro! I absolutely lose it when I hear stuff like that.
There's an important game dev idiom: options should match desires. And you talk about it a lot when you talk about the ship customization. And this is a sentiment literally every human deals with on a daily basis and yet so many game devs just want to pump in so much C O N T E N T into their games or they get stuck on a cool idea but there's no gameplay around it.
Your term garden tender is really going to stick with me! Thanks again!
Gardens Not Gates!!!! I like that a lot... options should match desires! And yes, "content" is anathema to design. I want to check your stuff out -- any recommendations?
Superb video. Subscribed!
Thanks Wilde!!!
This is the best review of Cygni, i watch it later....
#pewpewpew
I'm not even halfway through and brother this is magnum opus level
I finished it. I was right. This is a masterpiece.
@@n2oshotandironman Wow.... beyond honored you would say that THANK YOU!!!!!!!
As underrated as the genre itself
Oh wow what a compliment THANK YOU!
@@SpidersSTG No problem. Keep up the good work!
01:06:05
Now this is what I'm talking about. Even as a kid, I remember being incredibly upset at not being able to beat Pokemon Puzzle League on Very Hard. Not a soul was rooting for me, in fact my classmates thought it was a stupid endeavor, but I kept at it till I did it. Was maybe 10 at the time. That victory was probably the first time in my life I felt I could overcome a challenge.
It sounds like this Matt guy has never had such an experience. Which is truly saddening. That experience will likely sit with me to my grave, however I cannot be sympathetic when someone with this view hears about this and their response is "Ah, Cool."
Would love to throw copies of G.K. Chesterton at all these writers that employ "revolutionary" rhetoric. The gate remains closed.
That’s amazing coming from a ten year old mind… I would have easily assumed Very Hard was for the older kids, maybe even the smarter ones.
I didn’t have a moment like that until I was much older - certainly one that I gave myself proper credit for.
Not to plug but I think you would dig my Sophstar video; the relevant part starts around at 23 minutes, my best understanding of the “Matt” mind and how the subtle difference in perception maybe explains the “revolutionary” tendency to change the world to suit your desires vs. changing yourself and understanding the purpose of desire.
Throw one of those books at me too! I never heard of G K Chesterton before. Which would you recommend?
GG on the Puzzle League Very Hard 10 yr old Anon!
i mean, as someone who has nothing to do with shmups, the visuals alone are tempting me to try CYGNI.
other than that, great video love ur personality
That’s fantastic!!! and I hope I didn’t say anything in the video to discourage you. Honestly I think I’d do the thing at 1:09:12, start on Easy, and just enjoy figuring it all out, see how far you’d like to take it, and if you give up early really think about why and know other shmups may gel better.
If you really enjoy the process of trying to master it, the whole genre is your oyster and all it’s wonders and treasures no one player could hope to imagine seeing all of.
If you’re cheap, I *might* recommend waiting for an update and a sale, because the problems veterans and my novice-ass pointed out are maybe worse for new players than anyone. Unless your favorite flavor is ‘grind’ ;)
Thank you so much for checking the video out - especially as someone who has nothing to do with the genre. Massive compliment and I’m truly honored by it.
@@SpidersSTG yeah will do.
excited to watch your other videos
@@e_ighth Awesome thank you so much!
I was gonna reply to my initial post, but I think it's better to express it in a new one.
I'm a long time arcade player who can clear a small selection of games (now I have to rerecord them to prove myself lol), and why I've never really gelled with the shmup players is (despite agreeing with them on a lot of things as a fighting game player) I don't like the "show me your clears" stuff. I play mostly 16-bit games, console memos, and G.Rev games, so I'm in my own camp here, I couldn't confirm my scores for most of my life just due to not having the tech to do it, and it's so easy to get called a cheater without video footage.
I understand why there's skepticism, because people straight up lie on the internet, and it kind of poisoned the well, but I'm an old arcade player, so I used to just play on local hardware, and I think it's disingenuous to ask for MAME replays, since I think a lot of devs of the 90s couldn't confirm their clears if asked. A lot of great games were made by people who couldn't clear Area 88, I don't really care. I bet they could with time, but making games and clearing DDP are two different things.
What I mean is, I don't think clears == good game. Does the fact that the developers of fantasy zone can't beat gradius mean that fantasy zone is bad?
100%! Maybe my jokey parts muddied the intention here?
The “show me your clears” - which was color I added , I think the quotes were “he probably never cleared a game”, and “well if you cleared RayForce (or tried), then you know better than me (who hasn’t) what makes it good…” in this context isn’t about saying Mahar has to clear RayForce to make CYGNI, but that the suspicion is he hasn’t tried to 1CC a shmup and doesn’t understand the deeper layer, thus the Euroshmup design elements.
The “show me your scores/replays” I just added as like a “try hard character” … I don’t even know how to setup MAME I use Retroarch lol… really just to say that I really appreciate those guys with strict standards (maybe overly so) holding devs feet to the fire.
There definitely is (or was) that “prove it” attitude and I agree with you that we should just assume people aren’t lying about their achievements unless they’re offensively bold claims.
I’m not super deep into that part of the scene so maybe it is a problem I’m not noticing? I was worried about that when I stopped making full commentaries and edited footage (and always forget to dump the unedited playthrough on the channel), but nobody’s said anything so far.
I think the other thing - maybe I conflated by accident for effect - is the Battle of Aurinoxia dev being unable to clear his own levels without continues… that I found very offensive in the context of how he took the feedback of a player who could. I do think devs should be able to clear their games and no-miss sections - or play “perfect” in their idiom, or at least rely on someone who can. Otherwise, they’re just expecting the player to figure it out and wishing it’s fun and engaging. Terarin is probably a great example here as someone who is admittedly not very good at shmups, but he tunes them to his level of mastery and then can put out what I think are the best beginner level shmups, and they get harder as he gets better so it all acts as this sharing/training for players through his work.
Also I like new comments instead of replies lol It means I get notified and don’t have to go digging:) Thanks for reaching out again!!!
Same boat.
If only video was proof enough, any cheater can stream on twitch with prerecorded and edited footage. Frankly, the kind of trolls that were quoted in the video gave me a kind of Billy Mitchell vibe... Typical from those kinds of echo chambers forums.
I've started to record the few arcade games I have 1 life'd or 1CC'd in the past, but I'm well aware that it's a completely worthless task, I just completed them like if they were old guitar songs I once learned, tokeep a trace. It's not because I know some solos that I'm going to ask a sound engineer to play me some Metallica thinking it'll prove they can use a soundboard...
@@SpidersSTG Yeah I didn't mean it directed at you highlighting it, it's just that system11 posts are often very jaded and really unhelpful when it comes to stuff. It's no different than SRK back in the day (and I HATED srk, it was a giant circlejerk). I understand the sentiment, since people are trying to keep games pure.
I do agree that "I played rayforce once on ps1" doesn't really check out when you look at the game as it is, and I never saw any beta footage so I don't even know what it looked like in the past. I just find it weird to be like "show me your clears" as if like CAVE hired Yagawa because he has some sick ass clears.
About the other devs, the thing is, arcade games are about mechanics, and you fine tune the game not to the standards of other games, but to the standards of your game. If you don't care about your game, you won't bother playing it for real, and you won't fine tune your mechanics. I love caravan games. Yes they're easy, but they're simple and fun, and Terarin's games really capture that essence of "just shoot and score." It's a different mindset or really way of thinking that often gets lost because there's a lot weighing on what I think is "clear tourism," which is the absolute inverse of playing casually, where you play for about the same time as a casual, but you get the clear and just drop the game because you're done with it, and never really sit down and just enjoy it. I played Metal Slug X for hours when I was 12 not to get the clear, but because I loved it, I just happened to get the clear because I loved the game. It's really funny actually, because we're only at this phase of stgs because Ikeda really loved dodging bullets in salamander, and then he worked his way up to make games he enjoyed playing first and foremost. It's not an objective standard, it's just a way of approaching playing and enjoying games. It's the same with Zun, he made games he enjoyed and it developed a different way of thinking for approaching games.
@@MotWhinnana This is a great comment! The SRK comparison got me… you still hear the “footsies” purity in SF6 lol. Skipping neutral is “Anime”!!! Really good point!
Clear tourism also.. wow. It is really interesting because I saw that immediately…. not to plug but in my Missile Dancer video the intro is about the gap in how for shmup vets it was a “15 minute pump and dump”, but for me it was the 60 hour journey that ended up with me getting to top score because I loved playing it so much.
The whole thing deserves a lot more nuance for sure. The wheels are turning!!! Thank you 🙏
@@_oBSOLEte_ Reading this I’m sorry I dropped the “Farm Revisited” sequence because they really did give the game an honest shot and many people had no problem changing there minds. AntiramDSR and -Fish- particularly did a better job of explaining the qualities of the game than anybody on the internet.
Places like that will always have an opinion forming kind of quality, but for me it was that openness in the end that showed me the earlier roughness was really coming from a place of tough love IMO.
I definitely agree with your sentiment though… and I’m probably being very naive about it as I haven’t done anything in the genre yet noteworthy enough to be under any scrutiny.
Just finding your channel, thoroughly entertained, great stuff
I’m so glad you stumbled on it - thank you Sagelord!
Give me the keys to daddy's car. I'll put the tomato garden sign on it and drive it til it breaks 🤣
hahahahahaha
4:40 the dev doesn’t want to make sure the game can be no-missed…? How many of these Euro-minded shmup devs that are still around!? This is 2024 already and they can at least look at Natsuki Chronicles!
I found that interaction really frustrating, as well as that the dev couldn’t clear the levels w/o retries while some players could.
I cut the part in his feedback, but going against the expectations for the genre for “his vision” - he said using the visual language of the genre is like wearing it as a skin-suit… which is a really horrifying image for something people love and care about.
@@SpidersSTG 😑
Feel bad it took me this long to get to this one, but rest assured it is a stone cold classic.
Thanks EELZAP! No worries I got a buddy still working through it lol! Ideally everything should have a longer shelf life and conversation: gaming isn’t going anywhere, shmups are still underground, and media gatekeeping will unfortunately be a thing as long as we’re giving them attention.
Today i woke up and i m a spider
This is THE channel!
I m always feel overwhelmed by the simple-complexity or the complex-simplicity of shmups even have a little stendhal syndrme 😂
Now finaly i m in the mood to be devoted to this amazing genere and start to make my first 1cc and improve scores, etc .. this channel helps me to do that, thanks ! Your thoughts , the script , the music, the intimacy are superb…
The Sophstar episode is my favorite and now i need a special version of Sophstar with the music that you put on the episode.
Greetings from Girona, Catalonia , Spain
P.s : Sorry for my engilsh , this is my first comentary on UA-cam ever
Alejandro that’s AMAZING!!! More legs and more eyes will help you I think lol
I can’t tell you how happy it makes me to hear that - that was my desire when making the Sophstar video, that it might connect with people who wanted more from the hobby. I never imagined it would reach across the world!!! I’m very excited to hear about your journey! Do you have a game in mind yet?
One day we’ll make the Aquarela do Brasil romhack for Sophstar :)
Your English is SUPERB! Thank you for commenting! If you ever want to post in Spanish, I don’t mind finding a translation.
I m on Sophstar now trying to improve my score , 17th in the intermediate leaderboard (Almorgas66) just above Matt ( that Matt? lol) ; hope some day can make 1cc but is far far away from i can reach now …
Thanks for your answering !
Can t wait for your next video !
Saludos !!
MATT! hahahaha If you’re interested I just did a “Meet The Player” with Dace on @Shmuptopia and we talk a lot about the depth, the mindset, and being a new player. You might dig it! I’m working on 3 videos now hopefully the stick mod video will be up in a week or two but it also covers games and technique as well.
Yeah i ve seen “ meet the player” you nail the bullet heaven , junkie, electric shmuptopia analogies ! The sādhāna concept fits perfect for my vision of the path to improve in shmups and in life ; now days people talk a lot of mindfullness and Stoicism and there is nothing more in the present and Stoic than a Stg.
Love when you talk about being confident enought to share your missile dancer achievements , etc…
The compile-Rizzing is and interesting way to cover ( and hard !)
I m now in the soldier pcengine triology, just make 1cc on final soldier , soldier blade is my goal now
Saludos !!
@@alejandromoreno8248 That’s so cool! I feel less crazy that you also see the link between shmups, mindfulness, Stoicism, and self-improvement:) Congrats on the Final Soldier 1CC! Have you ever thought about making videos?
I can't believe you got your thoughts on Cygni out in under an hour and a half. No joke.
Hahaha no joke! There's about 6 hours that didn't make the cut lol
Damn it man! I'm way too entertained, thanks for the rad content! Welcome to big school lol. Damn it man, come surrender to Interstellar Sentinel!
Thanks Doc!!! I’ve been watching PhillerInstinct’s streams playing IS - it looks very fun! Already picked it up it so it’s only a matter of time :)
I have honestly never seen an editing style so messy. I don't mean it in a bad way. It certainly is unique and your content is good. If you manage to keep it authentic and creative, you might be onto something.
Thank you!? lol I get exactly what you mean. Even though I have the same tools as professionals, I feel like I’m splicing VHS tape with a razor a lot of the time and this one felt very punk rock and chaotic and I wanted to do a lot of TikTok style edits and use force - pretentious probably but in my head like as a wink and nod to the ageism and progress ideas.
I’ll keep trying I really love making these - and if you stick around and I start fucking up let me know!
Thank you so much for checking it out!!!
@@SpidersSTG I watched another video of yours and it shows that you have the skill and the vision. Initially I almost wrote you off as one of those pretentious TikTok guys you said you were "cosplaying". It also felt punk rock to me. You are really, really nailing this. Go for it! I will be clapping and cheering from the first row.
I don’t even have words… thank you so much for the vote of confidence. I’ll try and earn it!!! I’ve been checking out your channel you play really cool games! Even if I can only understand the English it’s very nice to watch and listen to.
@@SpidersSTG thanks. I respond in English on the livestreams. Don't feel obligated to though.
Great video as usual, but I feel it's a bit too hectic. Personally I think it would be great if you could lower the music volume slightly, it's a bit hard for me to focus on what you're saying over the music. Anyhow great job!
Thank you! All I can say is I'll try and do better with audio next time... some things, particularly in the Prologue and first 10 minutes was intentional to be a bit frustrating as to where to put you're attention and push you to read and add some discomfort with a "shrug of relief" later... but that doesn't mean it was a good idea or worked. I also kind of wanted to filter people who wanted a happy-go-lucky UA-cam review and get them out of here before heavier topics were introduced.
If it helps, UA-cam's auto closed captions are surprisingly good for this. Thanks for watching anyway!!!
jehus post was amazing
right!? I loved that so much.
A haven't played Cygni or a lot of shmups in general, so I'm definitely in the casual category, but I feel like Cygni probably should've been an "on the ground" shmup like Guwange, Ikari Warriors or even Spy Hunter. That way the game could still be 16:9 while still having a narrow pathway that encourages twinstick aiming to kill the enemies outside the path. The ship could also be replaced by a mech, which by itself could inspire a slew of unique mechanics. For example, you could have thrusters that allow you to move quickly in different directions but has intertia, so they could have the intertia the devs so desperately wanted but the players have the choice to use it and it also serves as a way to balance thrusters versus slower walking.
I also think it'd be cool to have a sword that cancels bullets but has endlag, but at this point I'm just describing a game I want to make instead.
Hahaha I think you just headcrafted a completely different game! Sounds fun though!!! Basically a 2D top-down auto-scrolling Armored Core!
18:54 I actually crack when i heard this
I freaking love you Spider :)
I love you back brother!
That video was certainly... something. I don't agree with everything (I think you don't fully grasp what's around the whole gatekeeping part, for instance) but it was well argumented and the montage was interesting and pretty wild at times.
I'm very impressed with the structure and editing and writing of this piece. I may disagree with most of the arguments you pose, but your craft is undeniable. I can't just sum up the entire video to argue against it in the length of one UA-cam comment - your writing is dense with ideas and I'd need an essay of my own to really get into it. (That's a compliment, I swear!)
That’s really high praise and it means a lot to me!!! I’d rather be understood than convincing and I’d love to hear your thoughts or disagreements. I cut for time, but I had a segment on the Dark Souls easy mode where a “pleasantly heated” exchange changed my mind about some things and also reinforced some others. Also I think it says a lot about you that you can watch things where you don’t agree… I feel like that is a lost virtue in today’s media landscape.
Thanks so much for checking the video out!!!
@@SpidersSTG There's three things that really stood out to me. For one, I find it weird that you ran with a fairly technical definition of gatekeeping from a book on news media instead of finding a definition that's closer to what laypeople probably mean when they throw the word around. I've always considered the Gate to be separating people not from the content - no amount of sneering from forums can physically stop someone from buying and playing a game - but from the community around the content. Instead of a gardener, I consider gatekeepers to be like temperamental bouncers at a club. You might hear the music outside, and even look up the DJ and listen to their mixes online. But if the bouncer decides they don't like what you're wearing or whatever, you don't get the social experience of dancing with the crowd. These are the folks that want to see scores before they decide to listen to someone's opinion on a game. I'm not a shmup player (yet?) but I have gatekeepy gut reactions about roguelikes and farming RPGs. Just because I've played Rune Factory and Dungeons of Dredmor doesn't mean the Stardew and Hades players can't positively shape their genres.
My other two points are basically about perspective. The line "Why is my $30 less important than their $30" really stuck with me because... Publishers are never going to care about you as an individual. They see your $30, and then they see a thousand less discerning teenagers each with their own $30 and more free time to play games and give them free marketing on Twitch or whatever. This is the big difference between CYGNI and something like Battle of Aurinoxia. One of them gets an email with a name every time someone buys their game off itch.io, the other gets an email from shareholders when their game is thousands of sales below target. That's the curse of niche communities, really. You either die an indie or live long enough to see yourself become a product.
And finally, about difficulty. I resonate a lot with how you describe playing truly difficult shmups - learning all the intricacies of the systems, dancing with the bullets, reaching that nirvana. I play rhythm games for that exact same feeling! But there's a big difference between how I progress my skill in Guitar Hero vs DJMax vs Project Diva. In one, my flow state is at the upper limits of the provided difficulties. In another, I'm getting that same euphoric feeling at Hard and I don't feel the need to grind my skill to attempt Extreme - I'm already getting what I came here for. And in other games I'm flubbing the basics and trying to weigh whether I want to learn how to manipulate this plastic peripheral or move on to something else. This is what I think is missing from the Dark Souls Easy Mode debate. Some people reach full saturation with a game at a different difficulty than me. And if that's what it takes for them to see what I see in my favorite games, I think having more options is only a good thing.
Anyways, you can see why I didn't want to leave an unsolicited three-comment rant under your video. I'm only "pleasantly heated" because what you made is truly that engaging on an intellectual level. I think you deserve to have people dig in as deep as you do! Again, really great work and I hope I don't come off too intense.
@@Jiroxys25 Perfect intensity! I saw this comment this morning and have been chomping at the bit all day to sit down front of a keyboard and reply:)
RE: Gatekeeping... I started with my take on the "laymen" definition and then touch on the community aspect with Smash Bros, i.e. this is not the only or intended way, but the way we're going to play and build a community (gate) around... I think you're right that's how the term gets used amongst the "civilians". I think maybe that's what I'm saying: that the "bouncers at the club" arbitrarily keeping people out is the image that gets painted of the "gatekeeper", a myth -- and I might be naive here or just very lucky in my travels -- but I've never encountered anybody in my life who didn't want to share what they loved if they thought my interest in their interest was sincere. That's beyond games and for everything, really.
I wanted to highlight the actual definition, because I think it's one of those things where when you understand what gatekeeping actually is, and then the insane fact that the actual gatekeepers are the one s who put that term out there as a way to do actual gatekeeping and create secondary gatekeepers (tech term not covered in video, but essentially the fans who accept and reinforce the media's framework from the ground level), I think it's best to just hear that word as "Sibboleth", throw the conversation into the river, and start over from scratch without all the baggage and tripwires. Like you said, nobody can actually keep you from playing a game, and I think I made the noble case for "gatekeeping", so I think the question for me is, why is it important for CYGNI to be a good "shmup", or Hades to be a good "roguelike", etc., and not just it's own thing? Hell, I think Metroid Prime is great game, but a bad Metroid lol I think if I said people want validation, I'm not really being fair, but honestly I've never heard a good or good faith case for taking down the "laymen's gate" of niche. I hope I understood what you were saying:)
I really love your point about the $30. I think our points from a big company's perspective can stand together. I'm definitely adding a not-so-nice character and motive to them, but practically speaking it's the same thing. The POV from the indie developer I didn't really consider. And I should've... honestly half of me wants to post my video and tag his game on Steam, and half of me is worried I come off harsh or didn't take enough care considering I used his work to make a point. I actually really enjoyed my night playing it, and it was only in the context of the "arrogant developer who doesn't want to listen" that I had a negative feeling about the game and my experience. I always thought of it as a blessing, but you're right... it's a curse too.
You said the magic words: PROJECT DIVA!!! Future Tone is one of my favorite games of all-time full-stop, and I completely understand what you are saying! And I think you're 100% right. I actually am going to steal the "saturation" phrase... probably the whole comment, because you put it beautifully and I haven't been able to figure out a way to word it for at least a year lol.
I cut this, but maybe I'll clip it out in the future for a broader "easy mode" take. I had a really good exchange with someone about this and their explaining their accessibility issues made something make sense to me.
Imagine that all these things we call difficulty and reflexes and recognition could be measured in a such a precise way that 1) your console or profile could have an accurate baseline metric of your abilities and limits, and 2) a game could balance things around them, i.e. Boss X should push player 5% past their comfort zone, or even like a more complicated formula that takes into account emotional baselines and ability with which to deal with stress, etc... just imagine it's perfect, and you can perfectly scale the experience to each player. To me, that's a utopian horror, but theoretically that would end my argument against "Easy Mode".
The case in point was a proposed slider to extend the input window for parries to compensate for muscular degeneration. I think if that can be done at a hardware level, it should be done, but in a game menu, why wouldn't I use it to to gain an advantage? I use color blind accessibility options in Splatoon to gain advantage ffs. Am I locked out of a good ending for using it? If so, we're back to square one.
Somewhere, at some point, I think we are all conflating difficulty with resolve, reflexes with knowledge, and skills with understanding.
Dace from Shumptopia put out a great video the other day on Samurai Aces, talking about how much of the difficulty is actually an illusion that intimidates the player so much that they stop trying to push. And I think that's at the heart of the Easy Mode debate as I see it. I need to believe you are willing to hit that point of saturation, of testing your resolve, of banging your head, of losing hope and finding it again, and for that to happen, there needs to be a much better understanding of the resolve, dedication, and devotion that players can have for these games. There's so many games I think are "beyond my skill", but I look at my playtime and it's so little compared to the hundreds, thousands of hours great players put into it.
We probably agree pretty deeply and it's just different attitudes from our POV and what we think other people are thinking. I really, really appreciate your comments! Consider them all solicited and appreciated and don't feel like you can't say whatever your thinking. We'll do our best to understand each other in this limited medium of conversation, I'm sure :)
@@Jiroxys25 Hey Quinn! Perfect intensity! I saw this comment this morning and have been chomping at the bit all day to sit down front of a keyboard and reply:)
RE: Gatekeeping... I started with my take on the "laymen" definition and then touch on the community aspect with Smash Bros, i.e. this is not the only or intended way, but the way we're going to play and build a community (gate) around... maybe I was too vague? I think you're right that's how the term gets used amongst the "civilians". I think maybe that's what I'm saying: that the "bouncers at the club" arbitrarily keeping people out is the image that gets painted of the "gatekeeper" -- and I might be naive here or just very lucky in my travels -- but I've never encountered anybody in my life who didn't want to share what they loved if they thought my interest in their interest was sincere. That's beyond games and for everything, really.|
I wanted to highlight the actual definition, because I think it's one of those things where when you understand what gatekeeping actually is, and then the insane fact that the actual gatekeepers are they one put that term out there as a way to gatekeep and create secondary gatekeeping (tech term not covered in video, but essentially the fans who accept and reinforce the media's framework), I think it's best to just hear that word as "Sibboleth", throw the conversation into the river, and start over from scratch without all the baggage and tripwires and just say what we think and feel in plain language. Like you said, nobody can actually keep you from playing a game, and I think I made a good noble case for "gatekeeping", so I think question for me is, why is it important for CYGNI to be a good "shmup", or Hades to be a good "roguelike", etc., and not it's own thing or have terms like "euroshmup" be reappropriated like 'JRPG' was. I think if I said it was for validation then I'm not really being fair, but honestly I've never heard a good or good faith case for taking down the "laymen's gate". I hope I understood what you were saying:)
I really love your point about the $30. I think our points from a big company's perspective can stand together. I'm definitely adding a not-so-nice character and motive to it, but practically speaking it's the same thing. The POV from the indie developer I didn't really consider. And I should've... honestly half of me wants to post my video and tag his game on Steam, and half of me is worried I come off harsh or didn't take enough care considering I used his work to make a point. I actually really enjoyed my night playing it, and it was only in the context of the "arrogant developer who doesn't want to listen" that I had a negative feeling about the game and my experience. I always thought of it as a blessing, but you're right... it's a curse too.
You said the magic words: PROJECT DIVA!!! Future Tone is one of my favorite games of all-time full-stop, and I completely understand what you are saying! And I think you're 100% right. I actually am going to steal the "saturation" phrase... probably the whole comment, because you put it beautifully and I haven't been able to figure out a way to word it for at least a year lol.
I cut this, but maybe I'll clip it out in the future for a broader "easy mode" take. I had a really good exchange with someone about this and their explaining their accessibility issues made something make sense to me.
Imagine that all these things we call difficulty and reflexes and recognition could be measured in a such a precise way that 1) your console or profile could have an accurate baseline metric of your abilities and limits, and 2) a game could balance things around them, i.e. Boss X should push player 5% past their comfort zone, or even like a more complicated formula that takes into account emotional baselines and ability with which to deal with stress, etc... just imagine it's perfect, and you can perfectly scale the experience to each player. To me, that's a utopian horror, but theoretically that would end my argument against "Easy Mode".
The case in point was a proposed slider to extend the input window for parries to compensate for muscular degeneration. I think if that can be done at a hardware level, it should be done, but in a game menu, why wouldn't I use it to to gain an advantage? Am I locked out of a good ending for using it? If so, we're back to square one. I use color blind accessibility options in Splatoon to gain advantage.
Somewhere, at some point, I think we are all conflating difficulty with resolve, reflexes with knowledge, and skills with understanding.
Dace from Shumptopia put out a great video the other day on Samurai Aces, talking about how much of the difficulty is actually an illusion that intimidates the player so much that they stop trying. And I think that's at the heart of the Easy Mode debate as I see it. I need to believe you are willing to hit that point of saturation, of testing your resolve, of banging your head, of losing hope and finding it again, and for that to happen, there needs to be a much better understanding of the resolve, dedication, and devotion that players can have for these games.
We probably agree pretty deeply and it's just different attitudes from our POV and what we think other people are thinking. I really, really appreciate your comments! Consider them all solicited and appreciated and don't feel like you can't say whatever you feel. We'll do our best to understand each other in this limited medium of conversation, I'm sure :)
I really wonder, as a dev, how must feel to have the media praising your game while you steam approval is always between 58 and 60%
Oh, damn, now I see I've been named in the video, haha.
NO PLEASE GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY DON'T HEAR SPIDER I PROMISE I CAN SAVE SHMUPS.
More seriously though.
Once again, mate, a video of yours just fuels my passion to keep doing those games. There are too much amazingly good info and discussion here.
Thank you!
Thank YOU Rafael!!! While I was off the grid making this that Brazil banning twitter happened… that really sucks. How are you on social media now?
As always, I absolutely loved this. Your insights are so well articulated, presented, and I largely agree with what you've said. I admit, I've never really thought of "gatekeeping" in that way and context and honestly, yeah. I think you're right. I've also found my solace away from the sort of bloated mainstream AAA empire of gaming in a secluded wilderness of mostly indie titles and retro games. I could go on in more detail about my thoughts after watching this like 2, 3 times? But the result would be a post as long as your video xD
I am an ass enjoyer transwoman of taste and I approve this message!
Listen.. I’m not paying for the UA-cam servers you can post as many thoughts you have as long as you like!!! If you post fresh and not in a reply they come up whenever I check.
I’m so glad this sung with you and you found the my thoughts on gatekeeping interesting.
Indie/retro is such a good move. It is a wilderness and incredibly vast and dense and there’s just so much bandwidth for everybody and every thing.
Thank you so much for watching my ass-sister of culture!!! lol
Your unique style, presentation and charm is peak Shmup content. Absolutely amazing video with that is well structured and feels smart. Do you produce all of your music by yourself which is used in your videos? I like your definition of casual, I would consider myself a more casual player as the Shmup "life style" isn't for me but I love to get down with a few and try to master them, at least a 1CC. The difference about being serious or not is something I have never thought of because I take shmups seriously and care about them.
I cut the part in the video but you’d probably appreciate it: I think serious/casual can expand beyond “playing” seriously. Like there are baseball fans that know every stat and where every player went to college, etc., but they’re not on the field. There are serious fans who play casually, thus still care very much about the integrity of the game.
I don’t produce it past some loops and splices … I did the “nightcore” version of ‘Return of The Mack’ for this and a Beatles/Super Mario World mashup for my Sophstar video, but mostly just borrowing/sharing other people’s creativity - links in the description if you want to check them out:) If I could do it faster I would love too :)
I couldn't sit through 2 levels of this game. I was soured on it just by looking at gameplay footage and playing it myself just confirmed that it had nothing for me.
If you got further into the video than the game, I'll take that as a huge compliment lol
this was enjoyable, thanks
You are so welcome! Thank you for taking the time to check it out:)
Great video! I agree with the points you made and I was wondering what do you think about helping the community to grow. What do you think the developer should do and how can the streamers/youtubers help?
Thank you so much!!! Let's just take for granted that gaming press is a lost cause, and I think to some degree popular UA-cam channels are like "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"... so you'd have to stumble into the niche and then you discover creators and the forums.
It was creators like Junkie, Dace, Mark, etc. that got me in deep, so it's not like there's anything more than can do but stay wonderful and be found.
For my part, my whole channel is about what it's like to be the player rather than focused on the game, and my thought is that it helps bridge the divide for new players and the level of expertise most content is at -- I'm still a novice in my hands despite the passion in my heart, but maybe that helps?
I'm going to think about this more and get back to you.
you leave my precious boy Daemon out of this.
lol
" I'm very passionate about the hobby ... and I dont want to relate to it like that" - we should unpack this on another video some time :) I struggle with this as well - could probably get some great pointers from you, and maybe I can also help you shed some light on what feels like a form of rebellious justice that swells within you when you feel that urge to go say something about a game, good, bad, or otherwise, and actually why thats overall very good that everyone has an opinion on the game...
... I think the key thing that pisses us off ( as both passionate individuals ) - is when people go around the game and start talking about things that arent actually " the game " ... then its sort of like clear that they dont care about the game after all, they arent passionate, they just want to comment in that easy simile of "let me quickly compare this to ikaruga, write an article and we can be on our way" OR "I am acting out about something else and I'm going to use this game as my scapegoat to make a point about something entirely different".
I wouldnt mind a zeitgeist of opinions from passionate people disagreeing and learning from each other - like true debate discourse - that is centered on the GAME, even absent its environment. I tried my best in my "review" NOT to comment on other games, I still fucked it up, I still did it, but my point was that, the MOMENT you invite a comparison, you're doing that review a disservice. its the easy way out. you're using the fucking " sports analogies " they use on the 100th floor of the sears tower with the CEOs... you're showing clearly that your passion for the subject is "believe me! some of my BEST FRIENDS are IKARUGA!" - though granted, clever explanation here can blunt the spear, it still hurts to me.
- Although I dont agree with the ass / titty analogy necessarily (lol) - I fuck with your content - good shit and well worth the wait. The vibes are immaculate.
This is really great! I would love to talk about the sometime… after a much need break from narratives lol. Even my beloved Wukong is now “a thing” and I gotta keep away from all that so I can enjoy my wuxia literature monkey game. I used to try to avoid spoilers, now here we are lol
Don’t know how much I can help but I’m intrigued about the rebellious justice! Sounds anime AF!
Totally agree about the idea of passionate people disagreeing… not to get religious but that is the Talmud and a cornerstone of Hindu philosophy - people arguing trying to get to the meaning of the code. Internet don’t work like that though, and having an industry at the top of it rather than a community don’t help either.
You don’t have to agree, but that’s the fun of it - bring a good disagreement or nuance and it sharpens my analogy or dulls it and it’s no use anymore.
“Some of my best friends are Ikaruga!”. I am dead hahahahahhahaa
@@SpidersSTG oh no I was raised a Hindu hahaha 😂 damn my nurture getting in the way...
30 minutes in this video and i've gained a migraine, a devo cover and no clear point. keep it up unc
Metacommentary ;)
Real talk, sorry you feel that way and for sure if you got a migraine!!! .. if you got that far in you gave it a shot. If you want a quick happy-go-lucky review of the game there's plenty on YT. I wanted to go somewhere else. Thanks for giving it a go anyway.
@@SpidersSTG ok i'll give you an actual comment lol. believe me i think the game looks poor and i wanted to see it ripped into, i just don't like the meandering "couch commentary" thing or the wacky editing. there's a lot of vids like that. it felt like fluff while i was waiting for your actual commentary on the game
@@evilfreak7 Fair enough! I mean, the Prologue in a sense IS commentary on the game, just under the guise of another game and I think sets up the question at the heart of the issue: does the developer of "identify" with the genre or are they using/abusing the expectations of the genre to "blow the gates open"? If you don't find that interesting, the video's not for you. If you did and I just did a poor job, then I'm genuinely sorry if I wasted your time.
I put chapters and timestamps in if you want to skip to the breakdown and my opinion at 53:06, but now that I'm catching up on other videos and watched Aktane's, I'm glad I went in the direction I did because he covered the in-game issues much better than I did.
@@SpidersSTG sure, but I think the point could have been made in much less time. slowly reading through the steam posts and then peppering in those other gags grated for me. I did see the chapters yeah, but they're all named like ironic hardcore album tracks so my eyes glazed over them lol. thanks for replying
@@evilfreak7 I’m just not going to be for you then. Tech issues aside, this is my style, my thought process, and my humor coming through. I still appreciate the comments though and you giving it a shot.
Enjoyed video; still think it was 2x too long.
Be like shmup: CONCISE
Metacommentary;)
Great video...
Thank you Steril!
wmo on the couch is a vibe
thank you so much I think?
@@SpidersSTG the mouse you're using is/was legendary in the early years of quake for its shape and decent enough performance. it was just amusing to me seeing it used for well, what it was actually intended for
@@nickalreadyinuse I looked up wmo as internet slang and it said “wanna make out” ☠️🤣
I got a black one too I love that mouse. Cherry MX makes an “ok” knockoff wired one too - better to go vintage and de-sticky them!
A bit of a slog, but I believe I get the overall message. Gaming should be about having fun, and if you had fun with Cyngi, more power to ya. Now do a video why if we gonna call shooters shmups, we should call bullethell dodgemups, seeing how the gameplay hook is keeping pacman safe, while the ship surrounding him is irrelevant .
Correction /Additional factoids - Bullethell not only makes the ships, airplanes, or giants irrelevant , but the weapon systems, environments, & enemy designs also are irrelevant when it comes to pacman escorting, in leu of having fun lol. Tell that fun hating Mark I said hey, Euroshmup for W, etc. etc. 🤣🤣👍
I definitely had fun with CYGNI and making the video, but that doesn’t excuse it’s problems… I had a blast with Battle of Aurinoxia too! Even more so because I had no expectations and there was no narrative to contend with.
That’s interesting … I was just going through old notes and I’m not so sure that the “gaming should be fun” aphorism is true, or at least a good way to think. It’s like saying “food should be tasty”. I think gaming should be rewarding, and food should be nutritious, so if we just give up when we stop having fun, that’s pretty terrible advice for any journey be it relationships, projects, business…. I’m think aloud because you said it, but I think that mindset just serves the “play game move on” cycle that’s costing us a lot of money and dissatisfaction.
I don’t get the PacMan thing with bullet hell, but I’d be open to it if you want chat or explain it to me better… I’m not super well versed in bullet hells but I have notice in some games or at least in some sections the “shooting” seems superfluous to the dodging and basically functions like a timer you hold down a button for. Touhou style games in particular - Outside games have some patterns where the boss is invincible and it’s just a timer. I enjoy them, but to your point it might be worth exploring more.
Thanks for suffering the slog Ronnie! Would you believe I cut it DOWN to match the CYGNI clear runtime?
Definitely want to hear more about your “pac-man escorting” analogy… what do you mean???
I’ll send your regards hahaha
@@SpidersSTG Ha hah, you a good one I see. Pardon me Sir. Seems like when I see folks going into this stuff on a deeper level, I reminds me of Electric Playground always trying to divide us shmup lovers, always talking down to us unless we worship bullethell or wtf he's into on a particular day lol. I guess there's more guys like you & Shmuptopia, than him after all then. As for the pacman, I guess its actually called a hitbox. Again thank you for not hating for hates sake😊Now let's welcome folks to the genre, instead of silly purity tests, destined to run them off. Have a good one sir.
Whoopsie! Not electric playground, electric underground lol.
they maliciously took advantage of the ignorance that exists regarding STGs and exploited that blind spot with bad-faith marketing. they will be remembered as poachers of the genre rather than advocates of it. what a missed opportunity to educate. "missed' as in strategic misinformation.
It’s funny… I’d cite Hanlon’s Razor (don’t attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance) if they didn’t namecheck Dodonpachi (IGN) and RayForce (dev). I think the card for Part 4 (Devil Blade Reboot metacritic page) hits hard as well when you look at it that way…. and yet we in the garden are beyond blessed. This year for shmups has been amazing with many more in the coming months. Too many to keep up with!! SorecrialBladeCannon comes out in a few days - never even heard of it and it look very decent, for example.
@@SpidersSTG word the future feels bright, but this shit was gay as hell. i mean they are not dumb. made clever decisions at the expense of the thing they pretended to be supporting.
@@SpidersSTG i dig the garden vibe. it feels like a garden.
in interviews they said "we got a lot of help and feedback from the big creators and hardcore shmuppers"
they ignored everything Mark and boghog has said, because they just used the community as a marketing tool, just to have a "seal of approval from the community"
@@samhein321 I held out hope based on the post-launch comments on the farm… I didn’t listen to Mark’s or Aktane’s video until after I finished mine, but wow after hearing Mark’s video and listening to the “formerly After Dark” podcast going into more detail of his exchanges with Keelworks, it’s hard not to think that. MAYBE Mahar was good-faith but got cucked by the team and the corporate dynamic? I might just be making that up in my head to be sympathetic though.
There’s a “year in review” on ShmupBR’s channel where Shmup Junkie talks about play testing CYGNI and he set expectations as diplomatically as anybody could… I’d be very curious to here what he had to say about his interactions well.
All this precludes the Epic deal… I actually dropped my whole conspiracy there but Mahar had posted that Konami already considered the game a success pre-launch, and to me that sounds like Konami only had to get enough hype up to sign a deal with Epic and cash out. Irregardless of the quality of the game, I think everybody got played.
I played Cygni in VR with the UEVR mod and Reshade Depth3D and had a blast! Looking forward to their next patch and perf optimization, and I'll reinstall the thing to maybe get that last cheevo about the arcade loop. There's a good balance between resource management and the last upgrades in hard difficulty, had to use the raygun with proper timing instead of spamming missiles.
This is hands down the best shooter released this year. I wont buy Devil Blade NDA UA-cam DMCA Dystopia Edition, thank you, I just like my games with less legal threats and being able to upload gameplay videos as I see fit. Cygni's developpers sounds like decent people genuinely trying to do a good game and Unreal and its modding capabilities are also a strong point. I hope modders take an interest in the game.
That's really interesting... CYGNI is probably amazing to see in VR, and I'm wondering if what makes it so hard to swallow for an arcade player on a screen actually benefits it in VR??? I would put the pattern designer on a phone app though, that upgrade screen has to be a headache lol
Between you and me, I'm WAY more concerned about the EULA in CYGNI. The language states they can go after my video if they don't like the content or how I presented it. Devil Blade REBOOT's notice was mistranslated and has since been changed to reflect a 'consideration' and explicitly says they will not go after any creators.
Is modding a possibility at this point !?!?! THAT would be huge. If they updates they talked about to fix arcade mode and other issues don't pan out for serious players, that could be HUGE!!!!
@@SpidersSTG I don't buy this "translation mistake" a bit, they just backed off when they saw the bad PR brewing. For me, this almost reflects contempt to their customers. I can understand an EULA stating devs would protect themselves from slander by asking videos down, but Devil Blade's straight interdiction is simply hostile Karoshi bullshit. No way I'm gonna pay for that.
Modding the game in VR is already a thing with UEVR, and with the mod comes camera tools to tweak the action. I set it to have the action zoomed out instead of the variable zoom levels people get playing in 16:9. The main problem there is performance and optimization, you can see level architectures rolling in and out several screens ahead and sometimes two or three screens wide, and enemies popping one screen ahead or still displayed despite having moved out the boundaries if they're not killed.
Shooters that can be played in 3D VR are far and few. There are some old ones on 3DS you could emulate. I don't know what happened during Cygni's development, but there were dlls from oculus in the game files. Having two layers of action with ground/air units was far more instinctive and the gameplay a lot more legible with 3D depth. I suspect they tailored the game for a VR release but couldn't meet the level of optimization required to run it at 90 fps.
@@_oBSOLEte_ You might be right it was a change of heart - I have no idea. I feel like EULA backdoor to take videos they don't like down -- as if a EULA could be enforced -- is nastier, especially for people who do this for money. I see a lot of that kind of stuff from Japan as far as streaming goes and I don't like it either, but it at the very least seems like the whole concept doesn't translate they way it's meant.... polite society and all that.
VR CYGNI sounds like a site to behold though even with some issues.. wow! I played Rez and Polybius and that was pretty amazing.
@@SpidersSTG I couldn't record it myself with the stereoscopic videos I usually make, the performance was too bad for that, no overhead to record, but here it is from a guy with a monster 4090 PC. ua-cam.com/video/DMn1pdOTNMA/v-deo.html
Polite society... Shigatake just went full Nintendo. Think what you want of the games, I'd rather have Irishmen artists and programmers working in good conditions and well paid with Fortnite money than a single overworked salaryman who had to make a project he really liked during his spare time, and then the product being sold with hostile policies in places for those willing to advertise it for free. Fingers crossed for Cygni to get some attention from talented modders.
the fact that you think a lone person in their spare time ( in your own words ) has the ability to enforce legal threats ( which were NEVER legal threats - in my words, and in theirs), and disparage this individual's passion project to then lift up a western dev who has KONAMI backing, is the very definition of punching downwards - and I find it hard to trust anyone's opinion who decides that corporate interest is somehow going to be a good thing for any kind of art. In definition - the passion project will always be backed by me , and the corporate project will get a lot more scrutiny, and a lot less slack being that it is what it is. In this case it turns out its also a much much better video game but thats sort of besides the point. Your rebellious defiance of a lone japanese man who cant possibly enforce anything from their tiny apartment is noted, and unimpressive.
CYGNI looks not enough shmup-like to warrant a shmup fan's attention, and what you mention at 59:34 is probably the crucial point in CYGNI's design. Shmups reward a great amount of precision, attention to detail (e.g. enemy behavior) on the player's part to work with/around problems of precision, etc. CYGNI goes for the bullet sponge + progression approach where neither precision nor attention to detail is rewarded... with predictable results.
27:48 / 32:10 So it's not like a Cave game but it also doesn't revolutionize the gameplay so... what is left for CYGNI if it isn't either? That line alone was a huge red flag; unless the developer already had tons of experience developing shmups, this exposes a lack of clear vision as to what the experience they're aiming to create is. They are hardly filling a void already filled by twin-stick shooters.
Regarding the narrative section and particularly 30:13, what's funny is that every single hardcore player must have played starting out as a casual, then found the challenge appealing and kept playing. Very few people are natural-born STG players like Clover-TAC. Everyone who stayed a "casual" must have figured out their time was better spent elsewhere. This also goes for the r/shmups section where 1 redditor claims CYGNI helps more shmups be produced, even though no hardcore shmup player is asking more more games like CYGNI.
This was a productive dive into the game's reception vs. what it actually is, along with Mark's review; thanks SpidersSTG.
^ This guy chews bread and shmups!!!
That's one of the most frustrating thing from my POV... the scoring, in my mind, is the clearest indicator of the developer's intent, and from there you can see there is little thought to it for a serious player. There is no reward for any of the things you mentioned. I felt like a speedrunner trying to extract fun from the game. You *could* try and put together these beautifully routed runs of stages with clever use of the pattern designer and minimal damage, but for what? If dev don't care, why should player!?
That line was interesting... and made me think there was something else going on. Why the claim to revolutionize a genre -- and worse completely overlook Drainus, Schildmaid, ∀kashicverse, etc. that are expanding the territory rather than toppling it -- when you don't even think you are? I'm a fan of RayForce too, but I don't have enough knowledge to get past Stage 3 with my ass, let alone riff on it. I think the "well, you cleared it so you don't need me to tell you why it's good?" line in the forum post just cut to right to the bone. (I couldn't deliver it right in the "cruel to be kind" segment so I cut it:/ )
100% spot on what you're saying about 'casuals'... though I disagree their time is better spent elsewhere -- I think they think that and are gravely mistaken, to the benefit of designers and publishers who want to keep people looking forward to new things to be satisfied instead of with what they have at hand... I tried tied that to Matt's mindset.
I'm so glad you watched it and it sung with you. I kept "pure" from Mark's video while making this but I can't wait to check it out now!!!
I received it for free too.
;)
This is an earnest criticism of the video, I hope it doesn't come across as rude: please, improve your audio recording. This is the third time UA-cam recommends me your channel (previously the Angel at Dusk and Devil Blade Reboot videos) and I'm sure your analyses are very valuable -that's why I keep clicking on them-, but I always have much difficulty listening to them, to the point I normally drop the videos before they finish.
You have this way of speaking rather far away from the microphone so that the recording has a "distant" quality and not all the sounds you utter seem to be properly registered by the device. Furthermore, the mixing is such that the tracks of game recorded audio that play thorough are nearly as loud as the voice thus further obfuscating the listening experience, specially if I increase the output volume attempting to discern your words more clearly.
This may seem a silly complaint but to me this is not just a small nuisance, rather a significant obstacle that makes it really hard to follow your speech through all that noise. I think simply pushing the mic closer to the source would much enhance the quality of the main audio track, or -though the end result wouldn't be as good- just tinkering the audio mixing so that the music/bangbangboom tracks are quieter would help too.
I hope this is taken into account in future videos, thanks for the shmuping.
Not rude at all!!! I’m trying to do a lot of things with volume intentionally, but it gets messed up because of issues like you mention so I am working on it! Spent most of yesterday trying to fix exactly what you said with compressors, limiters, noise reduction, etc., plus I have a ton of technical issues… not excuses at all but it piles up and ultimately I don’t have the resources to re-record so I have to massage it… if you can tell me where in the video you lose patience and what speakers youre listening on it would be a big help.
Thanks for sticking around while I work it all out!
@@SpidersSTG Glad to read you're working on it!
In this video, the very prologue was already a very difficult listen, I had to struggle to process the words while ignoring the bullets and the massive bass, like holding a phone conversation next to a running jet engine.
So I skipped forward and at around 6:29 there was another roadblock: I don't know what's going on there but I feel like I'm being psychodrilled.
Part 2 is much easier to my ears, but it still sounds a bit as if the audio was being highly compressed through some online voice chat software rather than being as pristine as an original recording could be, so I need to focus on the video more than I normally do to be able to mentally process it (i.e. I can't work while listening to it hahaha).
I'm using a pair of Mackie CR4 studio monitors, and the audio is being processed by an AOC monitor plugged to my laptop via HDMI. Looking forward to your next upload!
@@gazurmah3133 6:29 that was the effect I was going for, but don't mean I did a good job of it. The "psychodrill" only worked on some speakers so I cranked it to make sure it worked on a phone too, but stayed under UA-cam -14 LUFs. The rest should be a better level besides loud transitions, but yeah tons of compression to mask issues with recording... trust me you don't want the 'pristine' version lol... one section the recording didn't take so I had to juice the iPhone mic recording - it's a mess.
I'm also trying to figure out ways to make people watch and not listen like a podcast, but again - doesn't mean I'm doing a good job so I really appreciate it. I do care and I put in effort, I just failed at it.
Looks like this video is might reach a level and if so I'll probably invest in a dedicated audio recording setup -- if it matters to people I'll put more effort in to the audio for sure. Would you be cool if next video I sent you an early preview to listen to?
@@SpidersSTG I don't believe you failed to meet the goal of the video being watched as a video rather than playing like a radio show as the montage always suited what was being said at the moment, but if the intention was for the whole duration to be eyeballed then that is very ambitious considering the length and the format. Of course, each has their own way, but I think the amount of people who will set aside over an hour of free time to single-mindedly watch a game discussion is always going to be a strictly and significantly smaller subset of the total of viewers/listeners as well produced as it might be -butt perhaps more of those 1:13:30 analogies would raise the success rate.
On that account, the reason why I wrote my first comment was precisely that I noticed a mismatch between the quality of the video editing and writing -both very carefully crafted- and the audio.
I don't have any formal training in the field and I certainly didn't expect this to be the outcome of the conversation, but if you think my setup is relevant then I'd be happy to help a shmup channel blossom by acting as a lab rat for your Havana syndrome research; so yes, I would be glad to check a preview of your next video project :)
Hope the stereotypes of SHMups will be removed. It's rarely to see people discussing Euro SHMups (e.g. : Sky Force, Jets 'n' Guns, Uragun) in SHMup forums. Many stereotypes that SHMup games must be Japanese style SHMup games, those are thick with "arcade machine" systems and nuances, fast clear time, and must do 1cc gameplay in hardest difficulty.
Maybe? but I don’t think CYGNI in its current state isn’t doing it any favors. I don’t know how far you got into the video, but 1:09:52 I try and make a case for “shmups as a hobby” as a deeper level, and if a Euroshmup can access that level of depth it should be accepted if not embraced by the shmup community, if not, then it’s pretty clear where the boundaries are and shmups can have their innovations
and Euroshmup fans have their access point to the “pure” genre.
I can’t rock with SkyForce because of the debt economy grind meta, but I think games like Operation S.T.E.E.L., Drainus, Schildmaid to some degree, Ginga Force, Angel At Dusk, etc., show us it’s not the “red flags” that are necessarily the issue, but how they are applied and what they offer… I think it is fair to say a lot of developers use them to fix a problem they don’t understand and then fall in love with the solution because it in itself is something novel or engaging, but it doesn’t serve the core game it hurts it, or in SkyForces case, replaces it with an economy game.
Maybe better for Euroshmup fans to own the label and enjoy them for what they are? Doom-clone was a disparaging term and now it’s one of the most popular genres and kicked shmups off of “shooter”.
@@SpidersSTG Yeah, not too great for Cygni. Earlier HD SHMup like R-Type Final 2 is better, but there are some Cygni's potentials to surpass the stereotypes, counterbalance other SHMup games, and stand as new good HD game to adapt & compete the game markets.
you should definitely stream on twitch
i felt the music was a bit too loud at times
also i'm a titty man
Hahaha I think it would rot my brain!!! Maybe one day lol…. titty men are also welcome hahahaha
Where was the music too loud? It’s intentional in the Prologue with Battle of Aurinoxia… I struggle with it a lot but tried to listen to this on different speakers including headphones, phone, my car, a shitty soundbar… if you could tell me where and what you listen on that would help for future videos:)
@@SpidersSTG stage 1 hard no upgrades
all guns blazing (though the music isn't really loud here, you just sound quiet)
Niceuuuu onemam po d c ast uuuuu
Thank uuuuu!
I am very interested in the topic but the video here was MUCH too long for me personally and the acoustics were difficult - I had to listen very concentrated because the music was often too loud compared to the speech. in the end I stopped - too bad
Hey Tobias! Would you mind telling me where in the video? In the Prologue section it’s deliberate (though maybe not the best idea)… up until about 08:15 but after that if you can’t hear clearly, I messed up! It would help me a lot in the future.
i want to enjoy and understand this video but its an edited catawumpus mess. It feels like pieces of a video that needed a final gloss over and structure without the gen z cutaways. You need to not put of something thats just freeform webdiving and on the fly reading and compose something that contains pieces of something you are trying to say because all i see is a really expensive beautiful shmup and dont understand what is being saved when your just arguing against trolls and critics. You take way too long getting to points and that background music is distracting away from your video. Its a shame because i want to understand the points and i dont want to sit through an 83 minute video for maybe a 20-30 min tops video. I am saying this as someone who loves watching several hour retrospectives by Majuular and Dungeon Chilll.
That's fair -- I think if you don't like the style that's fine. If I failed in the style then I need to work on something. It seems to have landed with some people so I'm kind of inclined to think it's just a mismatch for you and I.
1) There is definitely a structure... A. chronologically: 1) pre-Cyngi release Euroshmup retrospectively does the same thing. 2) early code reviews 3) gamers get in hand on launch 4) I get in hand from Epic. B. The narrative: 1) pre-launch, 2) launch, 3) post-launch, 4) personal play through.
What "saved" means in the video is first the narrative pushed on us from the publishers and media, later it refers to "the code", then the genre as I see it, and then to myself from the media cycle of abuse.
I like Dungeon Chill a lot but I'm not trying to make videos like his. I just started doing this a year ago and for sure my reach exceeds my grasp, but I want to make fun videos to take time and watch, not things to listen to while doing something else. I don't like that I watch a lot of UA-cam while doing something else, and I'm trying to figure out a way to make things I would carve out time for to watch. I've been doing this for less than a year and my reach definitely exceeds my grasp, but that's the idea. "Gen Z" cutaways were intentional as a theme of the video is the undercurrent of ageism in the modern narrative (if it's not obvious, I'm not a spring chicken).
I get the BGM is not for everybody. I like it... honestly I'd like it louder and try to mix like a DIY punk album, but at the same time I use to cover bad audio noise too. It's hard to get a read because some people enjoy it or at least don't mind. I definitely need to improve audio quality to make sure it's deliberate and not just messing up!
Either way I appreciate you watching whatever you manage to make it through, and commenting.
this is aimed at people who followed the whole cygni-drama. understandable that it may feel confusing if you expected just another review.
he just brilliantly visualized the mixed feelings some (*cough) got from the journey that was cygni. ❤
Thats the problem, you have to explain that rather than have a video that is more understandable. Whatever you do is fine but Im probably not the only person who feels this way and remember that anyone can just find a video in the middle of whatever drama and if you want people to be informed oyu need to treat a video as if someone who has no idea whats going on or have something for people to point to first.
@@blindseerurzabro, just to be sure: you realized that it was not the creator of this video who also answered your post? just to make sure you don't mix something up, cause it sounds like you did. anyway, my 2ct to this new comment: way too many "you need to" and "you have to" for my taste... but again, that's just me... not him.
@@blindseerurza That’s fair, but I think you see the divide in the comments here people who get it GET IT, and that’s who I was thinking would really enjoy what I have to add to the convo that ElectricUnderground, Aktane, VinuShmup, etc., aren’t already doing and doing better.
I have someone I screen videos for who knows almost nothing about the genre and certainly none of the inside baseball and that’s my litmus test for “is it still entertaining for the non-initiated?”. The first ten minutes was definitely a hump but I was confident people who knew the game and narrative would feel it viscerally. I still think it works. Maybe I’m being stubborn? Maybe just these “rant” style videos are going to have some expectations you already know what I’m on about??
I’ll keep this all in mind for the future - honestly really appreciate you’re still sticking around and commenting.
Genres, especially those that are small and undervalued, need foundational criteria for clarity and survival. It's those criteria that actually encourage innovation. The whole point of genres is to serve as guideposts for the expansion of personal taste. The idea that a genre should alter its standards in order to “grow” (i.e. include you) is a fairly entitled one. You’re essentially asking the genre to expand ("evolve") so that you don’t have to.
What’s strange is that it’s the kind of sentiment most gamers would find silly in other mediums. I love film. I have a deep appreciation for horror. But, I don’t watch many horror films bc I’m a scaredy-cat. If I argued that horror films need to stop “gatekeeping” and be less scary so they can ‘grow the genre,’ horror fans would politely (and rightfully) tell me to F off.
That a really good point! It’s kind of funny too that movies have no problem lifting and borrowing and blending genres in ways precisely because they do respect the language and fundamentals of the genre. Like, Ghostbusters can play with horror elements and even in a way “gateway”, but nobody would give oxygen to a claim it revolutionized the genre by making horror accessible.
I’m in the same horror boat lol! every once in a while I get brave, but eventually something gets to deep under my skin and I nope the hell out. And like you, I wouldn’t have it any other way! I wonder if your like me too where if you do stumble upon an “accessible” horror movie that doesn’t scare you very badly, you’re kind of bummed out.
I think what your saying in the first paragraph is really interesting to, because at the end of the day, it shouldn’t really matter if what you enjoy adheres to a genre orthodoxy. It does serve to inform your personal taste, guide you, and ultimately have a better understanding.
I don’t get why people who dig Euroshmups or those design choices don’t just own it and celebrate it and build their own garden. Why always try and “blow the genre wider”? I always end up with a very cynical answer to that.
I’m just thinking too about how you will never find a shortage of horror fans who will recommend anything and everything they can to get you into the genre! And they will slam things they think will turn you off to whole enterprise. Niche genres in and of themselves are very special:)
Thanks so much for checking out the video Drogba! Great comment!
i barely play shooting games (in the process of trying to fix this!! i will see stage 4 of ibara kuro some day soon ...), but this is an excellent video. echoes a lot of thoughts i (as an fps dweeb) had about doom 2016. scratch needledrop stapled a smile to my face too :) great work
shout out to man titties though
Thanks Myrrh! That’s really interesting… I’m VERY casual about FPS, had no idea Doom ‘16 might be received that way. From the outside it did look like that kicked off the “boomer shooter” wave though, and maybe did some course correction for bloated AAA FPS?? Would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Also shout out man titties lol… maybe a vid in the future hahaha
SpidersSTG oh man uhhhh. at risk of going on for twelve paragraphs, i found doom '16 deemphasized a lot of the vestigal dungeon crawl vibe of doom '93 & quake (which had a lot of design heritage from games like gauntlet and ultima underworld) in favor of Combat Rooms connected by hallways, and then leaned way too much on getting "game progression" via i think literally 9 different upgrade systems instead of level design. they wanted to make the game rewarding and thus structured the game around Rewards (secret hunting was basically mandatory at higher difficulties because that was how you unlocked a bunch of basic combat verbs, which also meant secrets couldn't be actually secret - they would marked them on the map before you even found them!). it at least had a good combat system, but even that was based more on the "rip & tear" meme (which comes from a very bad, nearly-forgotten-until-lowtax-needed-something-to-post-to-planetquake marvel promo comic from 1996 that had no involvement from anyone who worked on the original game) instead of direct reflection on the original game's "oh god i'm lost, oh god there's monsters, what resources can i afford to expend on these monsters" loop. a good chunk of the current "boomer shooter" wave, and many a writer+youtuber, took that misinterpretation and ran with it, and as a result i don't care for most of those games. but that's why i'm playing stg now, so it's not all bad :)
Risk was rewarded! Great write-up! I’d read this article or watch this vid lol.
Really good points and even if my Doom experience is Doom 32X > 100 years > Doom 2016 this all rings completely true. I guess being casual I didn’t notice, but the silly unlocks and “not secrets” I just backgrounded haha. Thinking of Doom as panic in a dungeon is really interesting.