I watched a lot of your videos. Enjoyed them. But I didn’t like the way tried to whitewash the problems with Boeing aircraft. I’m curious if you changed your mind and accepted reality. Now I’m going to watch the video.
My dad was an engineer at Boeing for 47 years. I grew up with the company and watching the changed taking place. I remember as a kid, hearing the name Harry Stonecipher from my dad with absolute disdain. He and other engineers were basically told by Boeing leadership that the problem with engineers is that they don't understand business. My dad was forced to retire back in 2015. He refuses to help Boeing these days.
It's a chronic disease in end stage capitalism. Money over everything even lives. It's in the US health system, just attacked our groceries even video games are not safe. Greed over all doesn't work.
Yup, they gave into the lie that you can manage what you don't understand. The damage Harvard and Wharton have done to this country liiterally cannot be measured, and if it could folks would simply not believe it. Would you invest with Fidelity, T-Row Price etc if the corporate leadership didn't know the difference between a stock, bond and derivative paper? So why are folks getting on these airplanes.
So much better than any other documentary I’ve seen on the subject. My now deceased brother-in-law headed the team at Goodrich that wrote the technical manuals for the Dreamliner. He always said he would never fly a Dreamliner… the potential issues were too numerous and without solutions. He did not do the manuals for the 737 Max, but he’d heard that new software was potentially problematic.
I'm an Automotive technician and let me tell you, when their own technicians refused to board the same planes they fixed you know something shady is going on. Sad people had to die for greed again.
I’m an A&P rated mechanic; just knowing what I know from school, I don’t trust civilian mechanics. And then, knowing what I know from experience, I don’t trust Army Aviation mechanics. Moral of the story is don’t fly until there’s a HUGE change in the industry.
@@benjaminw6985 is sad mechanics from any industry are filled with 60-70% of untrained/wrongly trained workers and this affects not only reputation but the overall quality of life of the people using their services.
@@benjaminw6985 Hate to tell ya but there are far more, far worse drivers and cars than there are pilots and planes… so while I can appreciate your perspective it very much feels like trading one potentially gruesome death at the hands of inept/distracted/scummy/murderous people for another 🤷♂️.
As a retired Boeing systems engineer from 1987 to 2010, I witness the glory days of Boeing and the emergent new Boeing. During those early days, the Company was truly run by engineers, and many were old-timers who didn't cut any corners. The words I heard the most throughout my tenure with the Company were "Airworthiness and Quality Engineering and Assurance." Meetings were held on these topics seemingly on a daily basis.
It's always been baffling to me that you can study go to business school and learn "company management" and become a company manager in an industry which you know nothing about. Corporate America is where top companies "increase profit margins" until they go bankrupt.
I heard that they spent 25 billion more on the 787 than they expected to. Plus loss of time, plus loss of prestige. They could as well have done it right the first time. it wasn't cheaper for the company. But the cutting of corners was good for money extraction. By people who had no connection to the product, no pride in the product. And did not plan to stay for longer with the company (and also could not expect to stay longer, especially not if they would have prefered R & D spending instead of stock buy backs).
Heart breaking. I remember in the 1970s the 707 flights Lusaka-Nairobi-Bombay and back. We felt so safe and thrilled on 4-engine jetliners. Now we're travelling by train. Imprison the honchos of finance and engineering and the CEO. No trial required.
It is late stage capitalism and it's failing. Greed and corporate welfare. Too big to fail. The Boeing CEO who resigned after over 300+ deaths, LEFT WITH A 60+ MILLION DOLLAR GOLDEN PARACHUTE!! The system is broken. We need a revolution in the French style. Our 🇺🇲 system is too corrupt and broken. Greed is not good.
i have worked in military aviation my entire life and the saying I always remembered from a young airman to now retired decades later, "why is there never time to do it right, but always time to do it over?" Boeing like our world of dismay boils down to simple GREED
I agree. Our whole culture is full of immorality and decay, and that core problem is now being exposed in real life situations. I don't care what the atheists say, you can't live in a hedonistic culture and have that not effect everything in society. And those Boeing emails that went public, shows the immorality for the world to see.
@@BType13X2petro engineer here. Thats because lawsuits and bad press ‘killed’ us during dinosaur era 80s,early 90s. Then we figured out safety is actually cheaper. During scumbags Cheney/ Bush2 they loosened screws again. Then BPs Transocean catastrophe happened and when BP almost went under from fines and market cap loss everybody got scared shitless. We run off all holdout dinosaurs ( at my company) pretty much overnight. Erm, they - gov needs to investigate,fine Boeing ,threaten them with 10year new contract freeze unless they completely change board get rid of CEO. But ofc they wont do it.
Having spent a 30+ year career in Aerospace, I have heard that question asked many, many times. What I find myself asking asking is why do we NEVER EVER learn? And to those who say it’s due to money, fact is, it costs more doing it over-and-over. The real answer is executives who promise customers a specific cost and schedule and then refuse to back down when things go wrong.
I was a QA Inspector for McDonnell Douglas in St Louis. Then Boeing took over. My QA management was forced out or reassigned to some other job, and I then reported to production management, which created a huge conflict of interest because the floor manager's only interest was to send the product out as quickly as possible, and I wanted it done correctly per blueprint and process specifications and free of defects. Boeing also implemented what they called "OV", or Operator Verification, meaning the technicians would inspect/approve their own work without any input from an Inspector. My Inspector job transitioned into Quality Auditor, whereupon I would audit the processes, but not the product. Whenever I did find something defective, I would write a Nonconformance report, and the floor manager would invariably countermand/delete my report. So I would simply issue another NR right behind the one the floor manager deleted. Eventually I was fired for "insubordination" for simply following the established procedures. I want full back pay back to my May 2012 termination date up to now. Plus I want punitive and compensatory damages.
@@joelgeorge3435 EEPC wasn't interested because I'm not a member of a protected class, And as a unemployed person at the time, I couldn't find an attorney willing to take on the big B on a contingency basis. But since then, I have moved on and somewhat recovered and am now a QA manager at an MRO that takes Quality Assurance very seriously. Still, for the flying public's sake, I would like to leave a mark. Interestingly, as a side note, during my unemployed stage, I contracted for Gulfstream who assigned me to Spirit Aerospace in Tulsa. Seems Gulfstream wasn't very happy with the quality of the assemblies Spirit was building for them so they sent me in as oversight to Spirit's Inspectors, who were in reality, just technicians with roller stamps. As a result of my efforts there, the Spirit managers became downright hostile with me, but since I didn't work for Spirit, they couldn't fire me. Great gig, but it was only temporary. All of this comes from a manufacturing disease called the International Standards Organization, aka ISO9000 and its derivatives. which removes accountability from the manufacturing process.
Strange! I heard the opposite, that Boeing was a company by engineers for engineers, the the merger with McDD led to a downturn with McDD profit focused mgmt taking charge, including the Seattle to Chicago move. They were praised by activist shareholders for their profit & business focus, and expected to embed this through the newly merged company. This seems credible and matches what happened with Xerox, with engineers left on the west coast, and the mgmt consisting mainly of accountants & lawyers relocating to NYC.
Pharma luckily doesn’t get to regulate on safety. Agri still gets to use glyphosphate giving farmers cancer, and massive environmental disasters like insane water usage for crops in deserts. They were growing alfalfa in Arizona.
I had a couple retired Boeing engineers as a lecturers in college. Boeing recruited pretty heavily out of our program, but they warned us that it had become a bad place to be an engineer and to avoid it if possible.
"Employees are afraid of retaliation when making complaints." Chilling that a Boeing whistle blower was recently found deceased under questionable circumstances.
Back in 2011&2012 my late bf worked as pre flight and delivery inspector at Boeing. His early years was at Mcdonnell douglas, then was sent to Everett and worked his way up, survived many lay offs and strikes. He would be so upset after work as he would fail certain things during inspections that were faulty. His supervisor would give him a hard time wanting him to pass it anyway. They were behind on orders and was rushing through to get planes delivered. BF refused to pass it telling his supervisor that he didn't want the blood of anyone on his hands when plane crashes. Always next day when he return to shift the item he failed would be passed by someone else. It was a stressful situation for him.@16:00 dude saying they are being safe, checking every bolt, everything on plane and fix issues that are being reported is flat out lie . It's all about getting product out and sold for Boeing! Supervisors were warned about faulty bolts and parts, were failed by honest inspectors, one that I know for sure of. And his warnings were ignored! Nothing done to fix. Just covered up by others willing to compromise moral standards to human lives that would be at risk. Such a shame Boeing refused to listen and fix. I can't begin to imagine how many of the planes that parts were failed during inspections are now out being flown at the risk of innocent people's lives.
Petter means that there are safety standards in place for inspectors and any staff to point out flaws. For example Toyota has a program that anyone on the assembly line can press a button to stop assembly of cars and call a supervisor if they find a flaw, problem, or just have a suggestion to manufacturer something in a more efficient way. This is encouraged by the company and actually causes a slow down in production which Toyota is ok with. But apparently with Boeing, instead of being listened to and appreciated for catching errors, the employees are reprimanded or threatened.
Welcome to capitalism, where profits must always come before social/environmental concern. And where everything, including politicians and laws, is for sale.
So the US government.that stole 11 trillion dollars to murder 6 million people for nothing in the Middle East is who should fix this?? We don't have capitalism bud..we have a mixture of communism socialism fascism with controlled markets. If Boeing was not being paid to murder people all over the world they would have gone broke or been out competed... If insurance and free markets monitored safety..not idiots in government...issues would be caught quickly.. If the US government wasn't using fake money corporations and people would not be seeking ways to cut corners either The problem isn't capitalism the problem is a mass murderering government....
@@mattrR678 - - Your point? Oh, let me guess, it happened in Soviet Russia so it's supposed to be a counter to the factor of capitalist greed. Well, first of all, the cause of the disaster was scientific miscalculation. (So, yes, definitely not caused by monetary missteps. But it's also outside the influence of economics in general.) And second of all, being in a 'communist' state doesn't mean something is any less suspectable to market forces. Capitalism/socialism/communism are all 19th century experiments, based on the same principles of artificial scarcity. We're capable of far better today. But our western society only thinks in binary terms.
I used to work as a contractor for Boeing where I helped them with inspections to ensure quality assurance. During my time there, I noticed that the quality assurance team and employees didn't care much about training their new employees. They often skipped important procedures and dismissed my concerns when I asked questions about how to do the job properly. When I brought it up to management, they didn't give me any feedback and justified the way things were done by saying that's how they've always done it. It seemed like nobody cared about the quality of their work and they only wanted me to sign off on things, even though I hadn't received the right training. I felt rushed to sign documents and received backlash when I asked too many questions. I decided to leave the job because of all the suspicious things going on behind the scenes. Although I was paid well, I didn't think money was more important than the lives of other people. I'm glad I left, but it worries me that the employees at Boeing don't seem to care about the quality of their work.
Those jobs were made redundant a long time ago. As for your assertions about the employees? You're lying. Whether you worked at Boeing or not, one thing is clear: you never worked in QA. What was it, high school work experience?
Boeing is taken over by economists, people who like to count money, and want to reduce cost all over the place without to care about things other than stock shares and money.
What about their endeavors to systematically replace American and European engineers with Indian subcontractors? I think that's pretty important for the public to be aware of when getting on board one of their $9 an hour engineered aircraft.
A couple of issues here: At 7:45, Capt. Petter explains that MCAS moves the vertical stabilizer…incorrect. The vertical stabilizer is part of the rudder which controls the yaw axis. The correct term is the elevator which is part of the horizontal stabilizer which controls pitch authority. Prior to that however, Petter suggests that there were no issues with the flight characteristics of the MAX aircraft and that it was a stable design…questionable. Perhaps from a pilot’s viewpoint, but from a regulatory perspective, the MAX should never have been certified to begin with. Moving the larger engines forward was only one impact of the redesign. The other was to change the camber of the wing to accommodate the larger diameter engine nacelles in the re-engined MAX. This new shape of the wing changed the flying characteristics of the MAX dramatically from the previous models of 737 aircraft. In fact, it made the design negatively stable in certain angles of attack necessitating the MCAS modification. This is expressly contrary to the FAA’s Aircraft Certification protocols for Air Transport category aircraft requiring them to be POSITIVELY stable in all unusual attitudes expected during normal operations. The MAX should never have been certified as a Transport Category aircraft AT ALL due to these modifications. Read The Challenger Launch Decision by Diane Vaughn to get a good primer on the concept of the “normalization of deviance” and compare to the Columbia Accident Investigation Board report that cited the very same financial and political pressures exerted on NASA that derogated safety. In between those reports, as a palate cleanser, I would suggest reading Broken Rails by Christian Wolmar that provides a scathing account of how the privatization of the British Rail system led to disastrous consequences. All of this carnage could have been anticipated and avoided had safety been given its appropriate place in the top priorities of these endeavors rather than as lip service by the bean counting flunkies at Boeing.
I have no input on your first point but I think this cut in beginning of his sentence might be misguiding. I think he refers to the OG 737? („It was always a good aircraft“ is a hint to that imo, I wouldn’t say a sentence like that about a aircraft from 2011) That would make way more sense but then his comment is put out of context. Might be wrong though, interesting context that you wrote!
As a railway worker I've heard many stories about the calamity that the privatisation of British Rail was. And the sad thing is that the same trend is being now followed by every other European country, we humans are stupid creatures.
What peter said basically was 737 max could be built without MCAS and be sold, but it required to have different certification and type ratings, requiring total training and added cost for airlines. MCAS was added to make sure the plane act like the previous NG version skipping type rating retraining for the airline. It added only to theoritically make MAX fly pretty much the same like 737 NG but longer thanks to much more efficient engine.
Well yeah. Corporations lobby the government for everything. That's why they are all so corrupt now and the GOP don't even try to hide it anymore hence banning lunch and water breaks in the south and trying to bring back child labor. It's gonna get bad unless we do something...
at this point its a wide spread issue of corruption in every level of every industry. a product of using money as a moral quantifier and lacking education with a preference towards ignoring or 'accepting' psychological problems
1000% true. Literally every major industry is suffering from the same root cause. Powerful lobbying and duopolies are rotting away competition and allowing corps to influence policy to push profits over the benefit of consumers. And it will continue to get worse until the concept of corporations being people is challenged and limited.
It's deeply disturbing how companies can basically buy a politician. This is why we don't have money for universal healthcare, but can spend billions in foreign wars.
Political heavyweights like Nikki Haley were well paid to sit on Boeing’s board of directors because what she brought to the table … her influence over the government including appointing a Boeing friendly Director of FAA.
Literally any industry they come into "cut costs" quality gets thrown out the window with good people. Especially in companies that are already doing well.
@@Chopper153 He also flies the 737 max, as his airline has both types and the entire point of MCAS is that the pilots can switch back and forth between them.
engineer’s record everything for studies and analysis if anything like this was to happen.. so even if the engineers wanted to withhold anything.. they aren’t able to do that
I worked for a company that made turbine blades for airplane engines and its inline with the video. MFG company was aquired by private equity firm who stopped re investing in operations and allowed facility to fail into disrepair. The manufacturing process could no longer produce parts within spec but a culture of fear and blaming lower level employees meant that nothing would interrupt production. Common practice included repeatedly processing the same part thru inspection and changing the serial number for parts that couldn't pass. I left that company about 4 years ago thinking it's only a matter of time before it comes down on them.
It's so sad to know there will always be people who will cut corners, sign off on safety issues, etc. all for a paycheck. Also upper mgt. and CEO's, etc. that give little thought to the threat to human life because of their greed. :(
I know 2 people who worked at Boeing for o er 30 years. They are both retired and can speak freely and honestly. They were not surprised by the disasters. They were expecting disasters because of the management changes. Greed killed all those people. Engineers were shut out of power, and the morale on the production floor had hit rock bottom over a decade ago. The FAA has some complicity, but my friends view the money grubbing management at Boeing to be truly responsible for the mess they and American aviation are in.
Greed for money corrupts and destroys everything. You see it all the time, small companies start out great and amazing and they grow because of it, and eventually become monsters because of corporate greed
@@mattb6646 Do you think that there wasn't greed when they were small? Of course yhere was. The problem is that if they screwed up, they would go to jail and lose their money. I suggest that you look at Soviet airlines safety record, where there would be 0 greed. It's far worse than Boeing right now. Also, if you look from a pure greed perspective, it's a very bad way to get money. Look at their bottom line, and the stock's losses in the last 5 years. These are nominal. Adjusted for inflation, Boeing's stockholders are taken to the cleaners. The only punishment that the management got was from the free market. Their bonuses rely heavily on earnings and stocks' valuations, and these got pummeled.
When a country or business enshrines the absolute worst aspect of human nature, GREED, as the golden calf of the way it operates, it becomes a certainty that people will be harmed or killed because companies and countries will always always cut corners. The airlines have a calculus that balances the cost of proper maintenance with what they pay out in settlements to people killed while the airline is chasing better earnings for the shareholders and CEO pay. And I disagree with blaming the FAA: I disagree because it was a hostile take over by airplane manufacturers. With adequate funding it would be able to do its job but there's a reason that it's funding was cut, most likely with payouts to key senators and upper management in the FAA. Business always finds out the price of individuals whether they be in the government or the private sector. And then they buy that person. Again, everything driven by greed. The worst characteristic of humans. And the further the distance between the people screaming in death as their airplane drops from the sky and the CEOs, the less the CEOs and shareholders care.
I can remember listening to a podcast more than 10 years ago when a pilot said he would never set foot in the 777 due to safety concerns. Imagine booking a ticket based on the aircraft rather than cost, convenience or airline preference?
I doubt I will be flying any Boeing plane again. The 364 people have never left my mind. The young pilots and their young first officers! This tragedy is forever in our minds especially as a Kenyan. We are next door neighbours to Ethiopia and my Paeds sister knows the Getachews. We wept so much. But life goes on despite all the corruption from these huge corporates. Love Pietter so much
I doubt id take any new planes. Planes like the 747, 757, 767, or 777 are great though. Designed by engineers and pilots all with safety, reliability, and performance in mind. They have all been designed and started being built before the MD merger. There is a reason the president flys 747, the VP flys 757, all of the US military tanker planes are 767’s, and the 777 is the presidential plane in Japan. The older planes are definitely some of the best ever built, that’s why you see airlines keeping their 757’s and 767’s in operational condition after 35 years of service. But once Boeing started with the 787 and the massive outsourcing and cost cutting campaign it was all over.
This is true of middle management in many technology companies. Many senior managers, directors, VPs have no understanding of the product they own. Many of them move every 2-3 years for promotions and they never invest in learning the engineering behind the products. But they feel they are entitled and smart enough to make key decisions. End result - disaster, not unlike what we see at Boeing.
I'm a mechanical engineer who develops similar level safety critical systems. (I can't say where) A problem like this CANNOT happen in an engineering environment unless EVERYONE directly and indirectly involved is incompetent or simply doesn't care. I can't understand how this could happen. From design to manufacturing to quality to audits, there's at least 200 people who look at the design/parts. They would ALL have to had miss (or ignore) these kinds of issues. To put simply, imagine yourself working in a bakery where the baker is coughing all over the food. Everyone working in the bakery, even if they're not the ones baking would obviously see or hear a baker coughing in the kitchen and say, 'I don't think the baker should be baking today'. the other bakers, the staff working at the register, the cleaners cleaning the sneeze guards, people bringing in the flour etc. Everyone would have to be on board for known issues to enter the market. In the case of Takata Airbags, Honda knew of the issue but continued to use the Airbags because they had a major share in Takata. In this case, the FAA and the airliners would also have known!
Private Equity mindset gets you here - via LBOs or by putting someone in charge from the PE industry. When that takes over, everything is outsourced including technical competency in favor of project and contract management. No one competent left to watch the QA henhouse. This has been happening at literally hundreds of thousands of American companies for over 40 years. Healthcare is their latest target. I just discovered the RV industry has been taken over by PE. Same old playbook - leverage up the company (company has to pay back the loan), squeeze labor and production cost (cheap materials and outsourcing), sell every owned asset and make the company lease it back.
Everybody knew everything but they deliberately did not do anything. It's a "calculate risk" maybe something can happen, but maybe not, but they lose money fo sure if they improve safety and training. This massive corporation can't care less about people, it's all about money.
Great discussion and presentation. I was an employee of Boeing for 6 years (Navigational Solutions). After leaving Boeing I was involved with safety and compliance auditing for business and commercial aviation. One of the most important aspects to an aerospace operation is what we called “Just Culture”. You nailed it. Every employee, regardless of position, must feel comfortable reporting safety concerns or incidents without fear of retaliation. When profits are placed above this culture, key things are ignored and missed concerning operational safety. I will not get into my feelings on Boeing. I will say leaving a company in a segment like passenger travel, to self regulate can quickly lead to cut corners attempting to save the bottom line. Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood, FAR compliance along with a just culture in place will lead to incredibly safe operations. Also, aerospace MUST be a meritocracy. The most qualified people should be hired, period. I’ll leave that there…
You have to explain that “Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood” for those that don’t know. I know that phrase means people had to die for that regulation to be in place but everyday people wouldn’t know that.
@@rsvpevents6780 Maybe my meaning was unclear. The average person may be able to decipher from the context that “Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood” means someone had to die for that regulation to be in place. However, I would not expect the average person to understand the deeper implications of the phrase “Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood,” whether that’s the history of aviation incidents that led to those regulations or the aircraft manufacturers, the aircraft operators, the aircraft maintainers, etc subject to those regulations. I am even using the term “Federal Aviation Regulations” specifically instead of FARs because the average person knows little about the breadth of aviation or automotives in general.
Just like the video mentioned, it used to be a engineering company for decades that happens to make a lot of money. Now its a financial and political company that does some engineering on the side.
Shareholder greed has nothing to do with anything. Share holders buy value and hope for returns based on the owned value. The corporate leaders are to blame. I am sure their compensation included increase in profits. Profit increases attract share holders thinking they are buying value. The fact is corporate leadership duped the employees and the share holders. The injured should hold the corporate leaders accountable. The injured includes passengers, employees, and share holders.
Now that I think of it, no wonder every single plane accidents documentary on National Geographic and Flight UA-cam Channel are all Boeing and McDonnell Douglas. Also who the hell allows MDD CEO to effectively takeover CEO of Boeing? Get that guy to explain it in court.
You sir, would do well in a non-agile workforce where you need to think on your feet. Of course it's better. I wonder if anyone studied that? The point is, we just don't care anymore
This is what happens to EVERY COMPANY when profit becomes more important than engineering and quality. Instead of improving quality and advancements in engineering they rather invest most on maximizing profits and lobbying as much as possible. Another HUGE failure is allowing federal regulator to "sleep" in one bed with business and COMPLETELY loosing it's true position of being GUARANTOR of quality and safety. It's great to hear that similar EU regular is not corrupted (yet)... hope it's going to stay like that in the forseeable future. Thx Dagogo for another excellent ep of CF!
My Grandpa was a boeing engineer for 20 years; he passed away in 2005. I still live about 15 minutes from their main facility- the largest building in the world. A couple years back I worked a contract there cleaning paint hangers. Its such a big part of industry here; I'm glad that my Grandpa never saw what has happened to Boeing...
This is the best, most throrough and informative doccie I've seen on Boeing. Thank you for your amazing research and production skills. And for including insightful input from Mentour Pilot. 👌🏼🧡
As a software engineer one thing everyone has known forever is that all codes have bugs and unforeseen bugs,no matter who writes them and no matter how much it is tested, Just look at the weekly updates for windows in your PC for an idea ,of how even major corporation cannot stop all software issues. So mcas should never have been solely relied upon for critical action.
Mentor pointed out the specific problem with MCAS is there wasn't training for most pilots. If they had known they would know they could turn of MCAS. Of course the real problem was that ever increasing diameter of high bypass engines required a different airframe than 737. The landing gear is too short on the 737 for engines on the MAX. Boeing didn't want to spend the money to make the 737 landing gear taller nor replace the 737 with clean sheet design.
I was a software engineer at Boeing at one time early in my career. We were treated by management as numbers because all the engineers had to become a member of the union. But your point about the MCAS the most basic system engineering design for critical decision making systems is to provide redundancy. At least two sensors and two computing systems that can compare results. If they don’t agree which indicates a problem the pilot should always be notified and given control. The chief systems engineer should have been fighting for a redundant solution.
Mighty Microsoft ships new software full of bugs! When questioned why they do this knowingly and fail to test more thoroughly before release, Microsoft’s response was “We rely on our customers to find the bugs!” Yes, they really said that! Even long standing MS apps such as MS Word are still riddled with bugs. A third-party testing company showed me a host of coding errors on just the first page of MS Word that their product found. They used that example to sell their testing product. Tired of being stung by this fact, Microsoft bought the testing company to shut them up !!! 👎🏻
@@saltyroe3179 the problem with turning off MCAS is that it requires activating stab trim cutoff. Not only it deactivates MCAS it's also deactivate any autopilot and assist on the stabilizers. Because Boeing doesn't use FBW, the stab controls are mechanically connected to the lever so it's almost impossible to control the stabilizers because how heavy the trim lever are even on normal stable flight. That yoke trim button just moved the stab too slow to to maintain stable. Even in the best case scenario, it makes the landing almost dangerous because in manual flight the controlling pilot already hands on yoke and throttle. And trim requires constant adjustment. That's why the the Ethiopian flight reactivates the MCAS even after correctly hit the stab trim cutoff. The trim levers are almost forcing 300 kg to turn it in a nosedive situation.
It is late stage capitalism and it's failing. Greed and corporate welfare. Too big to fail. The Boeing CEO who resigned after over 300+ deaths, LEFT WITH A 60+ MILLION DOLLAR GOLDEN PARACHUTE!! The system is broken. We need a revolution in the French style. Our 🇺🇲 system is too corrupt and broken. Greed is not good.
I saw in one documentary an engineer saying that this type of lousy construction/design/QA work will show up down the line, e.g. in 5 or 10 years time. That means for example that a defective bolt will not show any problem on a new plane, but it will break in eventually, causing a catastrophic tragedy. He mentioned that hundred of Boeing planes manufactured around a decade ago will start showing problems now, or they are already having tons problems. As an engineer myself, during my career in oil & gas I have seen this type of lies from certain managers, pushing things out of the door as fast as possible, cutting corners very aggressively.
If refrigerators are built on the cheap with components that fail.in a short time it usually doesn’t kill people. If an airliner producer cuts corners passengers and crew die.
Have you seen the reports of exploding refrigerators? Isobutane as a refrigerant seems like a bad idea... Even worse is a lack of failsafes that make it possible for the fridge to explode violently
@@VYBEKAT I see repeated accounts in the media of late model fridges suffering terminal compressor failure completely within the warranty period. I also have seen reports that the manufacturer claims that a disclaimer is printed on the outside of the shipping carton - which the purchaser never sees as the icebox is delivered AFTER being unboxed.
@@VYBEKATR290, which is odorless propane, is started to be used in smaller refrigeration systems because it’s cheap, efficient & is not harmful to the environment when released. The push to more flammable refrigerants is all thanks to the EPA. Every single repair technician would much rather use older refrigerants as they were simple to use & much less dangerous. You can thank government regulations for exploding refrigerators.
Boeing is the perfect example of what could go wrong with corporate more willing to serve their shareholders instead of building great products or services!
That’s why the Brazilian EMBRAER stepped down the deal with Boeing. You are known by your safe jets, strictly rules before launching a new model and face Boeing, still using 90s technologies. Some reports from EMBRAER engineers about Boeing methods, make us afraid to fly Boeing. 90s technologies to save money. 😢
What amazes me is all the great minds behind economics of industrialization on capitalism and v socialism did not anticipate this level of criminal greed in the free market. Everyone assumed self interest would put this kind of corruption in check - but nope, we live in a world in which these criminal fucktards are given multi million dollar severance packages. While those that make them rich (the workers) keep quiet out of fear of not feeding their families. Or worse are murdered when they become whistleblowers. Traveling? Boycott Boeing. Not on principle but to save your life.
I worked for them here in the Uk, and even though they have provided me with the pathway into aviation, I was becoming more and more sick of their ways, until I couldn't handle it anymore and left, I am so happy right now with my life, that I struggle to find words for it. They always, and I mean always prioritise profits over absolutely anything, it's hardwired into the corporate system, the more money is saved by leadership, the bigger bonuses for the year, leading to selfishness and greed instead of first time quality. There are some seriously smart engineers within the company, yet they are seen as the bottom of the pile compared to someone in the office, because to progress within the company, one must end up in the office. Anyway, its all fake, their pr team works absolute overtime to tick boxes and improve the image of the company. It breaks my heart because i thought i would retire from working with them and i could barely last 4 years. Superb video and very factual.
It is okay for Boeing and Airbus to certify its own work, where EASA and FAA do the audits for the overall certification. The issue is that the technology complexity for an aircraft is highly compliated, and authorities have no chance of discovering technical errors, but only the manufacturer itself. This trust however, may NEVER EVER be abused. For instance, Airbus, is very well aware of the "just" culture (PART 21 requirement for obtaining Design Organisation and Production Organisation Approval), where people can speak up, and it is well implemented and it works excellent. However rule number one: Safety first! Then greed. Not opposite. It's very simple.
@knightofsvea604 it's not just the police. Nearly every US industry has their own internal investigation group. In fact, I can't think of a single major corporate or governmental body that doesn't attempt to police itself. It's pretty standard practice across the board.
I think the fact that the plug was hidden and just looked like a regular row of windows from the inside would've made it even more terrifying for the passengers. I can imagine it would be terrifying enough if a door that *looked* like a door flew off, but to have a random hole rip out of the side of the plane just seems so much worse
Most people (including myself) wouldn't even know what a door plug is before the incident, so for a lot of people it'd probably look like the fuselage of the plane just ripped apart somehow.
Luckily the sits next to it were empty. Imagine if someone were sitting there, kinda casually looking through the window, appreciating the view, maybe even leaning their head against it (I know I sometimes do it if I have a sit next to a window) and suddenly the window and the whole wall it was attached to flies away...
I want to say this because it is important, I am an engineer at Pratt and Whitney and I can say that we do indeed have a culture of speaking up if you see a larger issue. I personally have brought up issues that are then escalated and acted upon swiftly and our quality team is very thorough in terms of making sure that everything is proper and correct. Boeing I hope, is an outlier in the industry but I don’t currently see that sort of activity where I am currently.
3 minutes in and the biggest problem is addressed for all big companies, stockholders profit. As someone that holds stocks I want to invest for the long run in a company that produces quality products. Not profit that will get lost in a lawsuit.
Lol boeing has like 28 dollar a share in the negative shareholder equity, the interest rate on the debt load alone is like 5 billion.. they have not been profitable for years and years. If the shareholders really were concerned with profitability you would have to get rid of the entire board of government cronies leading the company and those connections are about the only thing that is keeping them alive right now.
I've worked with QC and left three companies in horror after witnessing so many mal practices. People always tend to blame the ones who bring up issues to light. "Out of sight, out of mind as many people says today. And they don't want you to record your findings so they can pretend unawareness if they get caught. Certifications relies too heavily on self reporting and self regulation, no one takes time to take a closer look to things that are very easy to find.
As a machinist I have been asked sometimes to "make it quick and wrong" as I call it but I always refuse as I want to be able to go home knowing that I don't have to redo it in 2 weeks for free as it failed and generally catastrophically
One of the biggest issues with employee feedback is when concerns are presented and nothing changes because the managers don’t care. It really sucks that this continues to happen, maybe what’s needed is to revamp who is considered for management rolls. An mba really doesn’t mean jack, I’d prefer to work for someone who moved up to their current position doing the same job they are now supervising.
I disagree with Mentour on a few issues. One that whistleblower reporting. Dominic Gates who is a reporter that works for the Seattle Times had a whistleblower at Boeing and was reporting quality defects and issues. Boeing found that whistleblower and fired him from his job. Boeing in the past has used their contacts in the government to find whistleblowers in their company to fire them. Its happening even now since Boeing's culture has not changed. The current whistleblower to reveal that their were no bolts on the doors revealed that at Leeham News. Everyone there was warning that whistleblower to clean out his computer and make sure he can't be traced. Even Dominic Gates went over to the forums and requested a meeting with the Whistleblower as did reporters from sites like Reuters, CNN and other news sites. And of course we find out that their were no bolts on the doors. This was days before news broke into the media. The way Boeing works, they work to intimidate and bring fear to the work place, so no one speaks up if they see any quality issues arise. This isn't going to change over night or even be done anytime soon. The management at those Boeing plants need to be fired.
It's not the management at the plants, it's the C-suite executives who need to be fired. But I guess in all these years, shareholders interests have taken much of a front seat that unless there's a major change in shareholding, new management will find their hands tied if not fired
I worked for McDonnell Douglas through the Merger and I hate to see that the blame is put on Douglas for the changes. Why? Because its paints a picture of the people employed by MD were also part of that crappy greedy mindset that upper management had. We were not of that mindset. We were proud dedicated employees who cared a ton about First Time Quality and not profits. It was very unfortunate that we were being led by the biggest bean counter of all time, Harry Stonecipher and he carried over to Boeing.
I appreciate your story and dedication to your work! I would surely hope anyone with a functioning brain would know not to blame the employees, the rot in these companies is always at the top and the blame seems to always fall on the people who have little to no control over it.
Yep, both Boeing and MD had this creeping MBA culture bulshit that was harming them. It had fully taken root in MD, but was also on its way for Boeing. The big difference is that there was a quadre of engineers and people who rose up from engineering stuck firm in some executive and management positions. People with knowledge of the industry and actually gave a shit about engineering principles. You CAN make something both safe, and cheap, and fast. But you need a baseline of logic to build it around. You can't conjure simplicity from nothing, it takes executives and a CEO who can understand production challenges, engineering challenges and the impact of short terms savings on the overall product. The merger meant that the decks got stacked up in the financier's favor, and then the layoffs could be used to strategically pick and chose who to let go and who to insert, now that there was 2 companies with their entire management structure to choose from. So the executives of both essentially got to oust anyone who didn't agree with them, or was being a mild inconvenience.
Literally all publicly traded American companies care only about profit and their stock price. As long as they can make money for themselves and their stock holders, they couldn't care less about safety.
I spent 45 years in the airlines and have logged over 34k hours almost entirely on Boeing aircraft . I am type rated on five Boeing aircraft including the 747,777,and 767. What has happened to the company breaks my heart .
The email that shocked me was an email by a Boeing employee that said (I’m paraphrasing here) “use the Jedi mind trick” on FAA if you have to. I’m still startled by this. Thanks for the video.
Back in the 1990's Al-Jazera did a long story on shortcuts and bad practices at a Boeing manufacturing plant in the US, that had been reported by the union. It was a TV news item about 40+ minutes long, shown on Dateline SBS back in the Jana Wendt hosting days.
It IS Boeing and shows how the elite have kept this dangerous piece of rubbish company alive. Shame on jim Kramer for relentlessly promoting this thing and the congress and senators worshipping at the altar of this disastrous company that should have been shut down years ago.
Boeing fired it's best people. My uncle worked for them in Seattle. Dude is a genius. They laid him off in 2021. He asked what they would do without him and his team. They said they have no idea.
The corner cutting is not just about the safety culture at Boeing. They also stopped designing their parts and forced their vendors to design the parts themselves, while also cutting the margins from vendors drastically. Now the vendors can't bother with ensuring top quality because they aren't paid enough to care.
If they are not paid enough to care then they wouldn't sign the contract, basic personal responsibility and taking a minute to understand what a paper says before signing it.
@@mytech6779 it's not that simple. Boeing is basically the only customer they have. They can't relocate to Europe and become a new supplier for Airbus. It's either take the deal or close the company. That's why Boeing was able to leverage their position and force the vendors into predatory deals. When their margins get decimated, they can't ensure the same level of quality. Quality costs money. Moreover, Boeing isn't doing a lot of QC either, so, it is good enough for the vendor.
@@berzerius If the contract is not profitable then you go out of business anyway, a smart owner knows when to cut the losses and move on. A supplier's bad internal accounting and poor market foresight are not the fault of Boeing. A machine shop can produce much more than just 737 parts. Short of physical violence there is no force involve in negotiating a contract, violence would result in an invalid contract anyway. What's more: Airbus buys plenty from US suppliers, including Boeing's own spinoff Spirit.
@@mytech6779 contracts are an important part of the relationship but they are not everything. Goodwill is also important in a successful partnership in complex projects like commercial aeroplanes. Contacts don't cover everything and can never do, no matter how hard you try. Both the parties can still screw each other over while still abiding by a seemingly watertight contract. The quality of parts can drop significantly, but still meet the quality requirements outlined in the contract.
@@berzerius The overall intent of the contract matters when it comes to legal interpretation, courts do not favor parties playing clever tricks; »Mala grammatica non vitiat chartam “bad grammar does not invalidate the document” And most good contracts actually do include a catch-all section for anything not explicitly covered. Goodwill and reputation is important in any business, but the underlying fact remains that no one will sign a contract that doesn't result in net profit in the expected outcome, and anyone with any clue will also have a stoploss for a worst case outcome.
Slight correction: yes, the passengers were lucky with the door incident, had it happened at cruising altitude the consequences could well have been far worse. But it wasn't just luck, it's also thanks to the skills of the crew aboard, pilots and flight attendants alike that kept this a zero fatality incident. I listened to the whole radio conversation between the pilot and the tower, and she's a badass: calm and collected all throughout, and when the tower saw that they were descdening a bit faster than ideal when coming to land (understandable, they have no idea at this point as to how long the plane will stay intact, so hurrying up makes sense) and the controler asks her if they need to do a go-around (meaning: to circle around and get a better landing speed/angle), she just calmly goes: "I think we got it, Alaska 1282." and then seconds later puts the plane down like a glove. That's some true skill and professionalism there, Boeing should be taking some notes.
And then you add the other issues of companies wanting to remove the copilot to spend less, and also requiring less experienced pilots. Greed will kill us all
I listened to the conversation too. for me she wasnt calm and didnt use phraseology like a mayday call which lead to missunderstanding between tower and pilots. usually the training would kick in but it seemed to me she wasnt trained enough.
@oddererste I'm not a pilot, but the channel I first learned of the audio from on YT is ran by a former fighter pilot (channel name C. W. Lemoine) has a video on it with him reacting to it woth 3 opther pilots, 2 of whomare also ex-military. The mayday criticism is just BS. Mayday is one of the commonly used phrases used in international aviation, it's not the only accepted one. She declares an emergency, states the situation, the amount of people on board, and immediately starts descending and vectoring as per the tower instructions, and makes it to the ground safely, on her first attempt without a go-around. At no point was anyone misinformed or not aware of what was happening, controllers on the ground were fully aware that it's an emergency and acted accordingly, and her not saying mayday and instead using the accepted phraseology of 'emergency', didn't change the outcome at all, (nor was it against the standard protocols.) That's skill. In fact, the militarypilots all say they'd have done the same because no-one in the milirary uses mayday. 'Properly' using mayday requires it top be stated 3 times ("Mayday, mayday, mayday..." and then follwoing it up with what's going on, as one of them puts it "I don't like mayday, because it's wasted comms". What this means is that you're essentially just wasting time during an extremely critical situation when you can get to the point faster and more easily by skipping the whole mayday and just directly declaring an emergency. So no my man, you simply do not know what you're talking about there. She performed perfectly, and that's not coming from me, but from professional pilots who know a little bit more about aviation and these situations than either one of us ever will.
The way it was when I worked for pratt & whitney in Ireland,if you made a mistake and held up your hand the mistake was fixed and there was not a problem....it was encouraged....if you tried to cover up your mistake or not own up to it or tried to blame someone else for your mistake you could be disciplined from a warning a suspension or even lose your job,so it was in your interest to raise your hand... We also used the ace tools like root cause analysis etc to find out how the mistake happened and to make sure it never happened again with targets of zero escapes which we achieved. Then we were shut down and our jobs moved to america and singapore ....😢
PWAI excellent quality. I worked P&W 18+ Yr, BA 15+ Yr., always in turmoil, never complete one project, on to more, all led by inexperienced "manages" "retaliation" is art at BA "wink wink"
ColdFusion is by far one of the most talented people in UA-cam. You make great short informative documentary with High Quality video and you make music!
This is common in engineering and construction companies... eventually admins, accountants, sales-people and MBAs take over the 'business'... and run it into the ground...
My dad used to work for Spirit. They are basically the company that Boeing use as techs that would of plugged that panel on the emergency exit. He hated it. Was constantly overworked and the managers had very unreasonable completion targets on various tasks
@@normapenetta5940 This comment isn't talking about Spirit Airlines, it's talking about Spirit Aerosystems, which is a major supplier and assembly partner of Boeing - originally it was actually part of Boeing but they separated it off as its own business a while back.
@@dc4825 It's a US budget airline. Very budget. Go look for UA-cam videos with titles like "Airport Karen drunk total meltdown, Tasered, jail..." or similar to see just who flies Spirit airline.
I've spent the better part of a decade working the aerospace industry. It's a well-known rule that you DON'T work for Boeing for many of these reasons. You're treated as expendable, asked to do ethically questionable things with the engineering, and then inevitably laid off after at best a couple of years. A friend of mine used to subcontract (worked for another company but worked on a Boeing program) and he said even with the perks of being a sub it was still miserable.
Sounds exactly like what employees ar Merck / Pfizer and all the others are experiencing . Pushing questionable drugs on unsuspecting patients while doing constant surveillance in the doctor's treatment room via the fabulous infomercial LED interactive camera system . The American consumer is so naive , so abused , so gaslit ....... They still believe that the healthcare system as well as the government in general is working on their behalf .
Still senior engineers don't care about what happens? I am pretty sure they must have someone with a keen eye that could have easily seen what the mcas could do
@@JizzSock_ I understand it. It doesn't matter what environment I have been in. How small or big the team has been. Always there have been 2-3 people who always think about the worst case scenario. Now imagine a place like Boeing.
Reporting issues got me in a tight spot once. A situation was created, that made me resign. I took a month's break, joined another company, a much smaller one. Then, one day, these previous company folks called me, asking some questions about how I used to do certain things. I simply said, I don't remember any more, disconnected the call. Thankfully, in my line of business, people lose a truck load of money if things go wrong, nobody loses their life.
What do you expect from an economic system that incentivizes greed? There were some restrains pre-1980s, but they were all set loose following the collapse of the Soviet Union. This is the age of neo-liberalism, welcome.
Our country only bought Boeing and airplanes and Boeing were synonymous. Now everyone is praying when boarding one. The executives should have been jailed
UK makes the wings for Airbus. Rolls Royce make aeroengines too. But don't worry, we are a long way down the slippery slope of corrupt corporate capitalism too. @@akear
I knew of someone on that Ethiopian plane crash flight, they lived down the road from me, and I was flying the same day. I was watching the plane crash footage on the news while waiting to board the plane. While I was waiting to board the plane, everyone was looking in the same direction at a wall, there was nothing special about the wall, I then realized everyone was looking away from the TV, they didn't want to see the plane crash footage because they were going to be boarding a plane, that's what actually caught my attention in the first place.
Isn't that the weirdest feature of those sheeples ? It's almost as bad as ignoring the devastating harm that the mandated vaccines are causing . But really what choice do we have if our government sells us out to the corporations ?
Moving corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago and then onward to Arlington, Va. was extremely shortsighted. Removing corporate management & bean-counters from their manufacturing roots in Seattle shows that the production & aerospace engineering culture was given secondary status to the corporate lobbying pinheads leading Boeing down a treacherous path.
It's only shortsighted from a perspective of engineers making a quality product. Moving to Chicago was all about cutting costs and boosting stock value. And the move to DC is only doubling down on this position since now whenever a problem arises they can just drive down the road to payoff regulators for the problem to go away. They're the only game in town for public air travel and the govt won't let them burn, so the cycle is bound to continue.
@@jamespaydo "It's only shortsighted from a perspective of engineers making a quality product." - Which is the point, because no amount of cost cutting matters if your product goes down the drain and nobody wants to buy it anymore. You need a good product to keep business. You can only lie to people for so long before your bad reputation catches up to you.
Boeing seems to view commercial aircraft second as being a Defense Dept. contractor must be more important for long term stability, at least to the management.
Very cool seeing MentourPilot on the channel, especially when he's covered so much of Boeing's accidents in excruciating detail before; a perfect match!
I work as a QA engineer in the European aerospace industry and the fight to keep quality above production deadlines is still around, though it's not in the same league as Boeing. Fortunately this has realigned people's views on quality being paramount instead of "well it's fit for purpose" mentality. It's just sad that this is what had to happen in order for people to take notice
I worked for Boeing, (2007-2010), and saw the changes in attitude first-hand. Work was being sent to non-union shops in a direct attack on organized labor. The 787 program was partly moved to South Carolina for their inexperienced, but minimum wage work force, while strikes and hiring freezes were taking place in Seattle and Portland. Who would you want making your airplanes, trained and qualified aerospace workers, or some bumpkin who was making Lattes last week? The South Carolina plant had unbelievable turnover. Essentially, you could have made more money bagging groceries than building 787s.
@@x77punk77x It seems not. And, I think it’s impossible, as analogy boeing is trying to serve michellin star cuisine food using Mc Donalds workers PS: good analogy copied from someone else
My two favorite people!!! I began watching Petter on Mentour Pilot. His analytical skills actually helped me get over my fear of flying. Thank you for ALL your hard work. Love Cold Fusion!!!
Those videos of the production line workers saying "no way" they would fly on these planes was all I needed to hear. This proud American will be flying on Airbus for the foreseeable future
Been at Boeing 20yrs. They outsource so much engineering to India, Russia, etc. just to save a buck. They don’t care that it’s costing them billions in the end. It’s sickening
India has got some of the best engineers in the world. Most of the CEOs of top American companies are Indians. Its the Boeing leadership which is at fault.
The Aloha flight 243 was due to N73711 being a very old plane that had been through an enormous number of pressure cycles from island hopping as it flew around the Hawaiian archipelago, this caused metal fatigue in the airframe. _Following that incident, N73711 was written off where it stood, N73712, N73713 and N73717 were found to have accumulated a similar number of pressure cycles and scrapped soon after_
the mere fact that such major defects were detected while the aircraft was still in its "Service Life" means that Boeing also didn't properly stress test the components to accurately determine their lifespan, managing to miss that for the actual structural BODY of an airframe is an even bigger oversight still.
One of my best friends wife, was on that flight. It has been years since she told me the story of the experience, but I do remember that she told it very well, and it stuck with me for a couple of days. (meaning that it lingered in the back or front of my mind 100% of the time)
@@Thesaurcery4U2C Such was the damage N73711 suffered, the cabin forward of the wing had drooped by as much as 8° off the datum line. Amazing flying by the flight crew and the cabin crew managed to keep everyone as calm as possible, despite the trauma of losing one of their colleagues. How that plane stayed together was anyone's guess. These were some of the earliest 737s to come off the production line in 1969 and they were just worn out.
I am in insurance industry. The same mentality is in my company. Before we used to have a quite big QA department and before all changes rolled out into production, the changes would go through intensive QA testing. But now, jobs are out sourced to offshore. QA department is never heard by new people including high level managers. The policy now is rolling out new products asap. If there is issue, fix it later.
Organisations that accept your money should only do so if it cannot harm you. Stock exchange speculation and gambling excepted. Yet most public transport denies that or only offers a small amount of compensation. There would be none had the EU not stepped in. Aircraft are complicated things with many possible points of failure, be it mechanical or buried among the millions of lines of code that created them and keeps them aloft. Eventually every error can be traced back to a person. Something somewhere was overlooked. Like hiring someone who does not work for the people paying the money for. It is a wonder that there are not more incidents.
The former CEO for the 300+ deaths quit and was given a 60+ million golden parachute. This is late stage capitalism and it's failing. Greed is not good & is destroying our country & economy.
Another thing, coming from prior aviation, is maintenance man hours. The amount of work needed to maintain an aircraft per flight hour is insane. Companies won’t hire enough technicians, and the technicians they have are overworked and miss things.
generally, holding CEOs accountable only really happens if they manage to upset other wealthy people. The only people they could potentially hurt with their products that matter enough to get them in trouble already fly private jets so are not about be on one oftheir commerical aircraft.
What a well-made and informative video this is! You have a new subscriber. How could I NOT subscribe? Just a question: why show the cockpit of a Russian airliner at 5:18? I work as a QC so I spot details...
One rather disturbing coincidence I found from the two MAX crashes was the number of lives lost: 346. In 1974, 346 people perished onboard Turkish Airlines Flight 981 when the DC-10's cargo door flew out mid flight, leading to a complete loss of control. The root cause? McDonnell Douglas' profit first approach led them to knowingly launch their new DC-10 aircraft with a fatal flaw in the cargo door system. Even though they had a close shave in 1972, when the exact same thing happened, but the plane was able to land safely, MD still did the bare minimum to rectify the flawed cargo door system, which led to the crash of Flight 981. To hear that MD wearing Boeing's skin killed another 346 people because of their profit first approach, in eerily similar circumstances to their 1974 debacle, is just shocking and disturbing to me.
it’s so maddening that some creatures out there conduct business like this. they’re so ravenous in pursuit of profit that they’ll sacrifice future profits for instant profits. they can’t tolerate not making profit over any span of time and are willing to tear apart the foundation to build the roof higher. it’s the logic of a crack head.
@@slippinjimmy239 that's because they won't be around to deal with the consequences of their actions. They'll be removed from the position, with a nice fat severance package, won't face any consequences, and will either retire happy and rich, or get picked to head another big corporation and run it into the ground to make share prices go up. It's a cycle that rewards rather than punishes. Edit: I mean just look at the merger between McDonnell Douglas and Boing in 1997. Even though MD was the side that was losing heavily and needed the merger, it was their executives and management who ended up at the top of the newly merged company, not the Boeing personnel who bought the struggling McDonnell Douglas
@@paulyoung7551 This relates to the rising cult of the CEO coupled with the depreciation of workers in the United States. This is arguably a branch of Reaganist thinking where business leaders are cast as folk heroes hailed as “geniuses” and shareholders are massively privileged over employees, who are seen as expendable unless they are hypercompetitive superproducers who practice the same aggressively top-down managerial styles as their superiors. These toxic trends were/are clearly anathema to optimal engineering and maintaining a strong safety culture.
You can’t escape from the mentality of ‘profit first’ in all business; that why a business was created in the first place. It’s when that is the focus and when executives are rewarded generously more for their money making performance versus technical excellence, then we go down this deep rabbit hole
Boeing was profitable and did very well. But profit extraction for the sole benefit of top management and shareholders did not happen when Boeing was a company run by engineers. the 787 development wasn't cheaper in the end. They could as well have done it right - with the benefit of keeping their reputation. Under the old spirit. they would have had a NEW development to replace the 737 in the early 2000s. Of course then they would have reinvested a lot of the profits. These massive failures do not only cost their reputation - they cost money. They are lucky that Airbus cannot even fully capitalize on their incompetence, they cannot produce fast enough.
![How to Lie Your Way to $34 Billion [Nikola Motors Fraud]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/88fWUZhYb04/mqdefault.jpg)
It was fun to take part! Great production.
thanks petter! nice to see you here!
Everyone needs to check out his videos. Very informative in an accessible way
I watched a lot of your videos. Enjoyed them. But I didn’t like the way tried to whitewash the problems with Boeing aircraft. I’m curious if you changed your mind and accepted reality. Now I’m going to watch the video.
Love your videos Petter! Glad to see you do this.
Appreciation for your excellent work as well. I've been following your videos for a long time.
My dad was an engineer at Boeing for 47 years. I grew up with the company and watching the changed taking place. I remember as a kid, hearing the name Harry Stonecipher from my dad with absolute disdain. He and other engineers were basically told by Boeing leadership that the problem with engineers is that they don't understand business. My dad was forced to retire back in 2015. He refuses to help Boeing these days.
'Stonecipher' sounds like a fictional Super Villain...
People who know "engineering", and people who know "business". Only one of them can make humans FLY!
@@ZneroxYou have forgotten to add, "Fly safely and arrive in one piece. And not somewhere in the sea.
It's a chronic disease in end stage capitalism. Money over everything even lives. It's in the US health system, just attacked our groceries even video games are not safe. Greed over all doesn't work.
@@Zneroxcan teach humans how to navigate a flying machine
Putting MBAs in charge of any company where they don't actually understand how the technology works always leads to disaster.
that's why Elon Musk is so successful I reckon
🎯
Yup, they gave into the lie that you can manage what you don't understand. The damage Harvard and Wharton have done to this country liiterally cannot be measured, and if it could folks would simply not believe it.
Would you invest with Fidelity, T-Row Price etc if the corporate leadership didn't know the difference between a stock, bond and derivative paper? So why are folks getting on these airplanes.
Boeing's CEO from 2015 to 2019 was an engineer. Right up until the MCAS incident. Corporate greed is not limited to MBAs
@@Ja_ck00ceo acts on decisions made from the board
So much better than any other documentary I’ve seen on the subject. My now deceased brother-in-law headed the team at Goodrich that wrote the technical manuals for the Dreamliner. He always said he would never fly a Dreamliner… the potential issues were too numerous and without solutions. He did not do the manuals for the 737 Max, but he’d heard that new software was potentially problematic.
My brother refused to train pilots on Dreamliner.
"they don't understand business".... it is so sad that this happens more often than not, and at the expense of safety and creativity.
@@carolynellis387damn. Seriously? I flew on one and loved it. I don’t know I could’ve freakin died!!
@@Kunfucious577 Yes, very sad, he wrote an awful lot of training manuals. Can't say anymore for his sake.
I'm an Automotive technician and let me tell you, when their own technicians refused to board the same planes they fixed you know something shady is going on. Sad people had to die for greed again.
I’m an A&P rated mechanic; just knowing what I know from school, I don’t trust civilian mechanics. And then, knowing what I know from experience, I don’t trust Army Aviation mechanics.
Moral of the story is don’t fly until there’s a HUGE change in the industry.
@@benjaminw6985 is sad mechanics from any industry are filled with 60-70% of untrained/wrongly trained workers and this affects not only reputation but the overall quality of life of the people using their services.
I would rather die for sneed
@@benjaminw6985 Hate to tell ya but there are far more, far worse drivers and cars than there are pilots and planes… so while I can appreciate your perspective it very much feels like trading one potentially gruesome death at the hands of inept/distracted/scummy/murderous people for another 🤷♂️.
As a retired Boeing systems engineer from 1987 to 2010, I witness the glory days of Boeing and the emergent new Boeing. During those early days, the Company was truly run by engineers, and many were old-timers who didn't cut any corners. The words I heard the most throughout my tenure with the Company were "Airworthiness and Quality Engineering and Assurance." Meetings were held on these topics seemingly on a daily basis.
It's always been baffling to me that you can study go to business school and learn "company management" and become a company manager in an industry which you know nothing about. Corporate America is where top companies "increase profit margins" until they go bankrupt.
The good ol' days before the Suits took over!
I have a doubt: were finance professionals also engineers with finance qualifications?
I heard that they spent 25 billion more on the 787 than they expected to. Plus loss of time, plus loss of prestige. They could as well have done it right the first time. it wasn't cheaper for the company. But the cutting of corners was good for money extraction. By people who had no connection to the product, no pride in the product. And did not plan to stay for longer with the company (and also could not expect to stay longer, especially not if they would have prefered R & D spending instead of stock buy backs).
This would never happen with a German company
_"When one door closes, another opens."_
~ Boeing.
Dark, but brilliant.
You are fucking Genius 😄😄😄
😂
@@rajeshranjan3199 Thank you but I don't have the copyrights of the above comment 😅
Made my day🎉😂
Heart breaking. I remember in the 1970s the 707 flights Lusaka-Nairobi-Bombay and back. We felt so safe and thrilled on 4-engine jetliners. Now we're travelling by train. Imprison the honchos of finance and engineering and the CEO. No trial required.
It is late stage capitalism and it's failing. Greed and corporate welfare. Too big to fail. The Boeing CEO who resigned after over 300+ deaths, LEFT WITH A 60+ MILLION DOLLAR GOLDEN PARACHUTE!! The system is broken.
We need a revolution in the French style. Our 🇺🇲 system is too corrupt and broken. Greed is not good.
no send in John Wick.
Harry Stonecipher has blood on his hands, finacial reparations should of come out of his wealth and he should of seen a custodial sentence.
i have worked in military aviation my entire life and the saying I always remembered from a young airman to now retired decades later, "why is there never time to do it right, but always time to do it over?" Boeing like our world of dismay boils down to simple GREED
I agree. Our whole culture is full of immorality and decay, and that core problem is now being exposed in real life situations. I don't care what the atheists say, you can't live in a hedonistic culture and have that not effect everything in society. And those Boeing emails that went public, shows the immorality for the world to see.
we have a similar saying in the oil industry. Never enough time to do it right always enough time to do it twice.
@@BType13X2petro engineer here. Thats because lawsuits and bad press ‘killed’ us during dinosaur era 80s,early 90s. Then we figured out safety is actually cheaper. During scumbags Cheney/ Bush2 they loosened screws again. Then BPs Transocean catastrophe happened and when BP almost went under from fines and market cap loss everybody got scared shitless. We run off all holdout dinosaurs ( at my company) pretty much overnight.
Erm, they - gov needs to investigate,fine Boeing ,threaten them with 10year new contract freeze unless they completely change board get rid of CEO. But ofc they wont do it.
Great quote. Good to remember.
Having spent a 30+ year career in Aerospace, I have heard that question asked many, many times. What I find myself asking asking is why do we NEVER EVER learn? And to those who say it’s due to money, fact is, it costs more doing it over-and-over. The real answer is executives who promise customers a specific cost and schedule and then refuse to back down when things go wrong.
I was a QA Inspector for McDonnell Douglas in St Louis. Then Boeing took over. My QA management was forced out or reassigned to some other job, and I then reported to production management, which created a huge conflict of interest because the floor manager's only interest was to send the product out as quickly as possible, and I wanted it done correctly per blueprint and process specifications and free of defects. Boeing also implemented what they called "OV", or Operator Verification, meaning the technicians would inspect/approve their own work without any input from an Inspector. My Inspector job transitioned into Quality Auditor, whereupon I would audit the processes, but not the product. Whenever I did find something defective, I would write a Nonconformance report, and the floor manager would invariably countermand/delete my report. So I would simply issue another NR right behind the one the floor manager deleted. Eventually I was fired for "insubordination" for simply following the established procedures. I want full back pay back to my May 2012 termination date up to now. Plus I want punitive and compensatory damages.
Have you filed a case against them? What's the status now?
It is no longer boeing, it is
BOINK. The company is CRAP! I wasted 35 years at this CRAPPY God damned place.
Keep us updated please
@@joelgeorge3435 EEPC wasn't interested because I'm not a member of a protected class, And as a unemployed person at the time, I couldn't find an attorney willing to take on the big B on a contingency basis. But since then, I have moved on and somewhat recovered and am now a QA manager at an MRO that takes Quality Assurance very seriously. Still, for the flying public's sake, I would like to leave a mark. Interestingly, as a side note, during my unemployed stage, I contracted for Gulfstream who assigned me to Spirit Aerospace in Tulsa. Seems Gulfstream wasn't very happy with the quality of the assemblies Spirit was building for them so they sent me in as oversight to Spirit's Inspectors, who were in reality, just technicians with roller stamps. As a result of my efforts there, the Spirit managers became downright hostile with me, but since I didn't work for Spirit, they couldn't fire me. Great gig, but it was only temporary. All of this comes from a manufacturing disease called the International Standards Organization, aka ISO9000 and its derivatives. which removes accountability from the manufacturing process.
Strange! I heard the opposite, that Boeing was a company by engineers for engineers, the the merger with McDD led to a downturn with McDD profit focused mgmt taking charge, including the Seattle to Chicago move. They were praised by activist shareholders for their profit & business focus, and expected to embed this through the newly merged company. This seems credible and matches what happened with Xerox, with engineers left on the west coast, and the mgmt consisting mainly of accountants & lawyers relocating to NYC.
From "If it's not Boeing I'm not going" to "If it's Boeing I'm not going" we all grew up.
Diversity
@@MyFriendlyPup ?
@@ryanlittleton5615 Elon Musk rips Boeing: 'They prioritized DEI' over safety.
@@rupamar Pretty sure they prioritized profit and shareholder value over safety. Much like Elon does actually...
@@rupamarelon himself cuts corners with safety all the time. Don’t listen to that cockroach
Coldfusion did not kill himself
Letting any company regulate themselves, be it Aerospace, Pharma or Agri is insane, and a great example of how stupid we are, to allow this to happen.
Or how corrupt, persuasive are some people, like narcissist and narcissistic types.
Pharma luckily doesn’t get to regulate on safety.
Agri still gets to use glyphosphate giving farmers cancer, and massive environmental disasters like insane water usage for crops in deserts. They were growing alfalfa in Arizona.
Think you mean Ag
@@RG-iw7pyno, our economic system demands it. How are you going to regulate corporations when corporations and their owners control the government?
@@Fireclaws10please take a look at “regulatory capture in pharma”. It’s a universal dynamic under calitslism
I had a couple retired Boeing engineers as a lecturers in college. Boeing recruited pretty heavily out of our program, but they warned us that it had become a bad place to be an engineer and to avoid it if possible.
There is one interesting quotes "you can teach business to engineer, but can't teach engineering to businessman"
Isn’t it the other way around? That business can’t engineer?
@@alfredo4713you just repeated what he said, businessmen can't engineer but engineers can business.
@@alfredo4713😂😂😂😂
Businessman can barely remember to keep breathing. Ever seen one try to use a shop vac? It's golden.
I think anyone can learn anything, the problem is managing engineering problems while being only a businessman and viceversa.
"Employees are afraid of retaliation when making complaints." Chilling that a Boeing whistle blower was recently found deceased under questionable circumstances.
And now there's a second one. This company is evil.
Correction: 2 dead wbs
@@thesplendor8654all companies that rely on share value is as corrupt as they be.
2 of them actually.
They have many Hitman like Agent 47
Back in 2011&2012 my late bf worked as pre flight and delivery inspector at Boeing. His early years was at Mcdonnell douglas, then was sent to Everett and worked his way up, survived many lay offs and strikes.
He would be so upset after work as he would fail certain things during inspections that were faulty. His supervisor would give him a hard time wanting him to pass it anyway. They were behind on orders and was rushing through to get planes delivered. BF refused to pass it telling his supervisor that he didn't want the blood of anyone on his hands when plane crashes. Always next day when he return to shift the item he failed would be passed by someone else. It was a stressful situation for him.@16:00 dude saying they are being safe, checking every bolt, everything on plane and fix issues that are being reported is flat out lie . It's all about getting product out and sold for Boeing! Supervisors were warned about faulty bolts and parts, were failed by honest inspectors, one that I know for sure of. And his warnings were ignored! Nothing done to fix. Just covered up by others willing to compromise moral standards to human lives that would be at risk. Such a shame Boeing refused to listen and fix. I can't begin to imagine how many of the planes that parts were failed during inspections are now out being flown at the risk of innocent people's lives.
Pity there aren't a lot more people with integrity like your ex. Sorry for your loss.
@@snooganslestat2030 ty
Petter means that there are safety standards in place for inspectors and any staff to point out flaws.
For example Toyota has a program that anyone on the assembly line can press a button to stop assembly of cars and call a supervisor if they find a flaw, problem, or just have a suggestion to manufacturer something in a more efficient way. This is encouraged by the company and actually causes a slow down in production which Toyota is ok with. But apparently with Boeing, instead of being listened to and appreciated for catching errors, the employees are reprimanded or threatened.
@@mikezerker6925 old toyota was superb.. now ehh..
Thanks for sharing that 🙏
The heart of the problem is a culture of unrestrained greed over any other standard.
Welcome to capitalism, where profits must always come before social/environmental concern. And where everything, including politicians and laws, is for sale.
The heart of the problem is capitalism.
So the US government.that stole 11 trillion dollars to murder 6 million people for nothing in the Middle East is who should fix this??
We don't have capitalism bud..we have a mixture of communism socialism fascism with controlled markets.
If Boeing was not being paid to murder people all over the world they would have gone broke or been out competed...
If insurance and free markets monitored safety..not idiots in government...issues would be caught quickly..
If the US government wasn't using fake money corporations and people would not be seeking ways to cut corners either
The problem isn't capitalism the problem is a mass murderering government....
@@winterhaydnMy friend, have you heard of Chernobyl?
@@mattrR678 - - Your point? Oh, let me guess, it happened in Soviet Russia so it's supposed to be a counter to the factor of capitalist greed. Well, first of all, the cause of the disaster was scientific miscalculation. (So, yes, definitely not caused by monetary missteps. But it's also outside the influence of economics in general.) And second of all, being in a 'communist' state doesn't mean something is any less suspectable to market forces. Capitalism/socialism/communism are all 19th century experiments, based on the same principles of artificial scarcity. We're capable of far better today. But our western society only thinks in binary terms.
I used to work as a contractor for Boeing where I helped them with inspections to ensure quality assurance. During my time there, I noticed that the quality assurance team and employees didn't care much about training their new employees. They often skipped important procedures and dismissed my concerns when I asked questions about how to do the job properly. When I brought it up to management, they didn't give me any feedback and justified the way things were done by saying that's how they've always done it. It seemed like nobody cared about the quality of their work and they only wanted me to sign off on things, even though I hadn't received the right training. I felt rushed to sign documents and received backlash when I asked too many questions. I decided to leave the job because of all the suspicious things going on behind the scenes. Although I was paid well, I didn't think money was more important than the lives of other people. I'm glad I left, but it worries me that the employees at Boeing don't seem to care about the quality of their work.
Those jobs were made redundant a long time ago. As for your assertions about the employees? You're lying. Whether you worked at Boeing or not, one thing is clear: you never worked in QA. What was it, high school work experience?
@@simonjohnston9488damn boeing managment being salty, carefull there, you still got some around you lips
it's a damn shame because you're exactly the type of person I wish _hadn't_ left that job and was still there
Boeing is taken over by economists, people who like to count money, and want to reduce cost all over the place without to care about things other than stock shares and money.
What about their endeavors to systematically replace American and European engineers with Indian subcontractors? I think that's pretty important for the public to be aware of when getting on board one of their $9 an hour engineered aircraft.
A couple of issues here:
At 7:45, Capt. Petter explains that MCAS moves the vertical stabilizer…incorrect. The vertical stabilizer is part of the rudder which controls the yaw axis. The correct term is the elevator which is part of the horizontal stabilizer which controls pitch authority.
Prior to that however, Petter suggests that there were no issues with the flight characteristics of the MAX aircraft and that it was a stable design…questionable.
Perhaps from a pilot’s viewpoint, but from a regulatory perspective, the MAX should never have been certified to begin with.
Moving the larger engines forward was only one impact of the redesign. The other was to change the camber of the wing to accommodate the larger diameter engine nacelles in the re-engined MAX. This new shape of the wing changed the flying characteristics of the MAX dramatically from the previous models of 737 aircraft. In fact, it made the design negatively stable in certain angles of attack necessitating the MCAS modification. This is expressly contrary to the FAA’s Aircraft Certification protocols for Air Transport category aircraft requiring them to be POSITIVELY stable in all unusual attitudes expected during normal operations.
The MAX should never have been certified as a Transport Category aircraft AT ALL due to these modifications.
Read The Challenger Launch Decision by Diane Vaughn to get a good primer on the concept of the “normalization of deviance” and compare to the Columbia Accident Investigation Board report that cited the very same financial and political pressures exerted on NASA that derogated safety.
In between those reports, as a palate cleanser, I would suggest reading Broken Rails by Christian Wolmar that provides a scathing account of how the privatization of the British Rail system led to disastrous consequences.
All of this carnage could have been anticipated and avoided had safety been given its appropriate place in the top priorities of these endeavors rather than as lip service by the bean counting flunkies at Boeing.
I have no input on your first point but I think this cut in beginning of his sentence might be misguiding. I think he refers to the OG 737? („It was always a good aircraft“ is a hint to that imo, I wouldn’t say a sentence like that about a aircraft from 2011) That would make way more sense but then his comment is put out of context. Might be wrong though, interesting context that you wrote!
As a railway worker I've heard many stories about the calamity that the privatisation of British Rail was. And the sad thing is that the same trend is being now followed by every other European country, we humans are stupid creatures.
@@osasunaitor Europe moment
@@RT-qd8yl Economic neo-liberalism moment
What peter said basically was 737 max could be built without MCAS and be sold, but it required to have different certification and type ratings, requiring total training and added cost for airlines.
MCAS was added to make sure the plane act like the previous NG version skipping type rating retraining for the airline. It added only to theoritically make MAX fly pretty much the same like 737 NG but longer thanks to much more efficient engine.
It is not only corporate governance problem, but also US government lobbying system problem.
Well yeah. Corporations lobby the government for everything. That's why they are all so corrupt now and the GOP don't even try to hide it anymore hence banning lunch and water breaks in the south and trying to bring back child labor. It's gonna get bad unless we do something...
at this point its a wide spread issue of corruption in every level of every industry. a product of using money as a moral quantifier and lacking education with a preference towards ignoring or 'accepting' psychological problems
1000% true. Literally every major industry is suffering from the same root cause. Powerful lobbying and duopolies are rotting away competition and allowing corps to influence policy to push profits over the benefit of consumers. And it will continue to get worse until the concept of corporations being people is challenged and limited.
It's deeply disturbing how companies can basically buy a politician.
This is why we don't have money for universal healthcare, but can spend billions in foreign wars.
Political heavyweights like Nikki Haley were well paid to sit on Boeing’s board of directors because what she brought to the table … her influence over the government including appointing a Boeing friendly Director of FAA.
Problem with finance guys running a tech or manufacturing company is they will cost cut you straight to bankruptcy.
"Consultants" on their way to consult all over a corporation and consult-cut-critical personnel in mass layoffs lmfao
Wharton HBS Stern MBA mfs
Same problem with these Finance/MBA fools running healthcare. It’s atrocious
Literally any industry they come into "cut costs" quality gets thrown out the window with good people. Especially in companies that are already doing well.
That's why my company never allows these finance people anywhere near acquisitions and company technology R&D.
Someone needs to tell the Pilot in the interview that it wasnt the Engineers that withheld information. It was the Management.
Not only that it was a former pilot turned manager/lobbyist that was having conversations with the FAA to minimize the status of MCAS to them.
He's a Boeing 737NG pilot and biased heavily towards them. You'll see regular videos from him questioning Airbus but not Boeing.
@@Chopper153 He also flies the 737 max, as his airline has both types and the entire point of MCAS is that the pilots can switch back and forth between them.
engineer’s record everything for studies and analysis if anything like this was to happen.. so even if the engineers wanted to withhold anything.. they aren’t able to do that
@@Chopper153 Then I don't think you've watched any of his videos in the last few months...
I worked for a company that made turbine blades for airplane engines and its inline with the video. MFG company was aquired by private equity firm who stopped re investing in operations and allowed facility to fail into disrepair. The manufacturing process could no longer produce parts within spec but a culture of fear and blaming lower level employees meant that nothing would interrupt production. Common practice included repeatedly processing the same part thru inspection and changing the serial number for parts that couldn't pass. I left that company about 4 years ago thinking it's only a matter of time before it comes down on them.
It's so sad to know there will always be people who will cut corners, sign off on safety issues, etc. all for a paycheck. Also upper mgt. and CEO's, etc. that give little thought to the threat to human life because of their greed. :(
Uh, the Boeing whistleblower is dead...
Welcome to the USA, or Russia or China
That’s crazy 🤦🏽♂️
If the Wistlenblower died then Boeing planes are in indeed in really bad conditions.
@@XxXnonameAsDXxX That does not just happen in those three countries.
The producers didn't know such a thing would happen!
Purposely removing any mention of MCAS from the operations manual is the highest form of recklessness. 😭
all systems fail and Boeing should have planned for that
But think about how much profits were made by not having to give additional training to the 737 NG pilots! /s
I call it criminal negligence. Unfortunately, it appears they will never face the criminal indictments and convictions they so deserve.
Tell me why no one was held accountable?
When using “purposely” you can’t say it’s was “recklessness”.
I know 2 people who worked at Boeing for o er 30 years. They are both retired and can speak freely and honestly. They were not surprised by the disasters. They were expecting disasters because of the management changes. Greed killed all those people. Engineers were shut out of power, and the morale on the production floor had hit rock bottom over a decade ago. The FAA has some complicity, but my friends view the money grubbing management at Boeing to be truly responsible for the mess they and American aviation are in.
The government saving Boeing is the main problem. The government didn't go for criminal prosecution. Gave subsidies
Greed for money corrupts and destroys everything. You see it all the time, small companies start out great and amazing and they grow because of it, and eventually become monsters because of corporate greed
@@mattb6646
Do you think that there wasn't greed when they were small? Of course yhere was. The problem is that if they screwed up, they would go to jail and lose their money. I suggest that you look at Soviet airlines safety record, where there would be 0 greed. It's far worse than Boeing right now.
Also, if you look from a pure greed perspective, it's a very bad way to get money. Look at their bottom line, and the stock's losses in the last 5 years. These are nominal. Adjusted for inflation, Boeing's stockholders are taken to the cleaners. The only punishment that the management got was from the free market. Their bonuses rely heavily on earnings and stocks' valuations, and these got pummeled.
When MD bean counters invade Boeing's offices.
When a country or business enshrines the absolute worst aspect of human nature, GREED, as the golden calf of the way it operates, it becomes a certainty that people will be harmed or killed because companies and countries will always always cut corners. The airlines have a calculus that balances the cost of proper maintenance with what they pay out in settlements to people killed while the airline is chasing better earnings for the shareholders and CEO pay. And I disagree with blaming the FAA: I disagree because it was a hostile take over by airplane manufacturers. With adequate funding it would be able to do its job but there's a reason that it's funding was cut, most likely with payouts to key senators and upper management in the FAA. Business always finds out the price of individuals whether they be in the government or the private sector. And then they buy that person. Again, everything driven by greed. The worst characteristic of humans. And the further the distance between the people screaming in death as their airplane drops from the sky and the CEOs, the less the CEOs and shareholders care.
I can remember listening to a podcast more than 10 years ago when a pilot said he would never set foot in the 777 due to safety concerns. Imagine booking a ticket based on the aircraft rather than cost, convenience or airline preference?
I doubt I will be flying any Boeing plane again. The 364 people have never left my mind. The young pilots and their young first officers! This tragedy is forever in our minds especially as a Kenyan. We are next door neighbours to Ethiopia and my Paeds sister knows the Getachews. We wept so much. But life goes on despite all the corruption from these huge corporates. Love Pietter so much
Last Boeing I flew on was a 747-400. I won't fly on any of their new planes
@@random269 easy to say for a domestic direct
I doubt id take any new planes. Planes like the 747, 757, 767, or 777 are great though. Designed by engineers and pilots all with safety, reliability, and performance in mind. They have all been designed and started being built before the MD merger. There is a reason the president flys 747, the VP flys 757, all of the US military tanker planes are 767’s, and the 777 is the presidential plane in Japan. The older planes are definitely some of the best ever built, that’s why you see airlines keeping their 757’s and 767’s in operational condition after 35 years of service. But once Boeing started with the 787 and the massive outsourcing and cost cutting campaign it was all over.
@@TysonIke "it was over"
As if we have a choice...
Airbus CEO=Engineer
Boeing CEO=Accountant.
Fact!
Spot-on. This is what’s destroying companies. The focus is on spreadsheets, not where things happen and the people doing the work.
One is more focused on pleasing the investors and partners that everything is fine
*Breathing in accountant 👀
Intel switched back to engineer ceo
This is true of middle management in many technology companies. Many senior managers, directors, VPs have no understanding of the product they own. Many of them move every 2-3 years for promotions and they never invest in learning the engineering behind the products. But they feel they are entitled and smart enough to make key decisions. End result - disaster, not unlike what we see at Boeing.
I'm a mechanical engineer who develops similar level safety critical systems. (I can't say where) A problem like this CANNOT happen in an engineering environment unless EVERYONE directly and indirectly involved is incompetent or simply doesn't care. I can't understand how this could happen. From design to manufacturing to quality to audits, there's at least 200 people who look at the design/parts. They would ALL have to had miss (or ignore) these kinds of issues. To put simply, imagine yourself working in a bakery where the baker is coughing all over the food. Everyone working in the bakery, even if they're not the ones baking would obviously see or hear a baker coughing in the kitchen and say, 'I don't think the baker should be baking today'. the other bakers, the staff working at the register, the cleaners cleaning the sneeze guards, people bringing in the flour etc. Everyone would have to be on board for known issues to enter the market. In the case of Takata Airbags, Honda knew of the issue but continued to use the Airbags because they had a major share in Takata. In this case, the FAA and the airliners would also have known!
Because they deliberately hid the truth from people. they didn’t think it would be so dangerous. When it was, they then tried to hide again
I don't care where you work: in the US of A profits trump safety EVERY TIME. If you think your business is any different you are deluding yourself.
Private Equity mindset gets you here - via LBOs or by putting someone in charge from the PE industry. When that takes over, everything is outsourced including technical competency in favor of project and contract management. No one competent left to watch the QA henhouse. This has been happening at literally hundreds of thousands of American companies for over 40 years. Healthcare is their latest target. I just discovered the RV industry has been taken over by PE. Same old playbook - leverage up the company (company has to pay back the loan), squeeze labor and production cost (cheap materials and outsourcing), sell every owned asset and make the company lease it back.
Everybody knew everything but they deliberately did not do anything. It's a "calculate risk" maybe something can happen, but maybe not, but they lose money fo sure if they improve safety and training. This massive corporation can't care less about people, it's all about money.
It’s called DEI you dope….
R.I.P. John Barnett!!! It is a shame the world never got to see you testify in front of Congress!! You will never be forgotten!!
Great discussion and presentation. I was an employee of Boeing for 6 years (Navigational Solutions). After leaving Boeing I was involved with safety and compliance auditing for business and commercial aviation. One of the most important aspects to an aerospace operation is what we called “Just Culture”. You nailed it. Every employee, regardless of position, must feel comfortable reporting safety concerns or incidents without fear of retaliation. When profits are placed above this culture, key things are ignored and missed concerning operational safety.
I will not get into my feelings on Boeing. I will say leaving a company in a segment like passenger travel, to self regulate can quickly lead to cut corners attempting to save the bottom line. Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood, FAR compliance along with a just culture in place will lead to incredibly safe operations.
Also, aerospace MUST be a meritocracy. The most qualified people should be hired, period. I’ll leave that there…
You have to explain that “Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood” for those that don’t know. I know that phrase means people had to die for that regulation to be in place but everyday people wouldn’t know that.
@ceasetheday87 F.A.R. are written in blood is pretty self explanatory. I’m just a layperson and knew exactly what that meant.
@@rsvpevents6780 Maybe my meaning was unclear.
The average person may be able to decipher from the context that “Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood” means someone had to die for that regulation to be in place. However, I would not expect the average person to understand the deeper implications of the phrase “Federal Aviation Regulations are written in blood,” whether that’s the history of aviation incidents that led to those regulations or the aircraft manufacturers, the aircraft operators, the aircraft maintainers, etc subject to those regulations. I am even using the term “Federal Aviation Regulations” specifically instead of FARs because the average person knows little about the breadth of aviation or automotives in general.
I vividly remember when Boeing used to actually care about travel safety. Sad watching to this. I used to have a lot of respect for Boeing.
Just like the video mentioned, it used to be a engineering company for decades that happens to make a lot of money. Now its a financial and political company that does some engineering on the side.
Vitamin supplements are the next big unregulated mishap waiting to happen
This is really bad. And I’m not laughing
Shareholder greed has nothing to do with anything. Share holders buy value and hope for returns based on the owned value. The corporate leaders are to blame. I am sure their compensation included increase in profits. Profit increases attract share holders thinking they are buying value. The fact is corporate leadership duped the employees and the share holders. The injured should hold the corporate leaders accountable. The injured includes passengers, employees, and share holders.
Now that I think of it, no wonder every single plane accidents documentary on National Geographic and Flight UA-cam Channel are all Boeing and McDonnell Douglas.
Also who the hell allows MDD CEO to effectively takeover CEO of Boeing? Get that guy to explain it in court.
Cutting corners always screws you over in the long run! A message for the ages
The screw wouldn't be bolted in the first place 🔩
Everyone wants short term gains however. Take the money and run.
It does, but corporate leadership is not responsible for anything beyond the current quartal.
You sir, would do well in a non-agile workforce where you need to think on your feet. Of course it's better. I wonder if anyone studied that? The point is, we just don't care anymore
@@Justagamerhere1 😂
This is what happens to EVERY COMPANY when profit becomes more important than engineering and quality. Instead of improving quality and advancements in engineering they rather invest most on maximizing profits and lobbying as much as possible.
Another HUGE failure is allowing federal regulator to "sleep" in one bed with business and COMPLETELY loosing it's true position of being GUARANTOR of quality and safety.
It's great to hear that similar EU regular is not corrupted (yet)... hope it's going to stay like that in the forseeable future.
Thx Dagogo for another excellent ep of CF!
Rule number 1 of aviation.... No single points of failure.
Absolutely unacceptable to rely on a single angle of attack sensor
Absolutely correct. It's negligence.
It's rule number 1 of designing *any* system.
Anyone who has ever worked in the department of the redundancy department understands that.
as captain joe said redundancy redundancy redundancy
Holy snap! I was just about to build a plane with zero redundancy. Without your poignant comment that, must be shared - clearly, I'd be a dead man!
To start it needs to be illegal to lobby.
That would be ideal . But then the politicians have an instant ( bribe money / incentives) pay cut . So they will never vote for that .
Good luck with that one. Lobbying is so firmly entrenched into…geez, name it…it’ll never happen. Ever.
corporate bribery that's what it is
If only this is realized.. it's quite a unicorn at the moment.
@@yensteelit actually happens everywhere, just when there is no legal process for it, it is done under the rugs
My Grandpa was a boeing engineer for 20 years; he passed away in 2005. I still live about 15 minutes from their main facility- the largest building in the world. A couple years back I worked a contract there cleaning paint hangers.
Its such a big part of industry here; I'm glad that my Grandpa never saw what has happened to Boeing...
God bless him! Boeing was outstanding when the engineers ran the company!
I'm so glad you made the effort to share that vital information.
This is the best, most throrough and informative doccie I've seen on Boeing. Thank you for your amazing research and production skills. And for including insightful input from Mentour Pilot. 👌🏼🧡
As a software engineer one thing everyone has known forever is that all codes have bugs and unforeseen bugs,no matter who writes them and no matter how much it is tested,
Just look at the weekly updates for windows in your PC for an idea ,of how even major corporation cannot stop all software issues.
So mcas should never have been solely relied upon for critical action.
Not with ONE sensor, certainly.
Mentor pointed out the specific problem with MCAS is there wasn't training for most pilots. If they had known they would know they could turn of MCAS.
Of course the real problem was that ever increasing diameter of high bypass engines required a different airframe than 737. The landing gear is too short on the 737 for engines on the MAX. Boeing didn't want to spend the money to make the 737 landing gear taller nor replace the 737 with clean sheet design.
I was a software engineer at Boeing at one time early in my career. We were treated by management as numbers because all the engineers had to become a member of the union.
But your point about the MCAS the most basic system engineering design for critical decision making systems is to provide redundancy. At least two sensors and two computing systems that can compare results. If they don’t agree which indicates a problem the pilot should always be notified and given control. The chief systems engineer should have been fighting for a redundant solution.
Mighty Microsoft ships new software full of bugs! When questioned why they do this knowingly and fail to test more thoroughly before release, Microsoft’s response was “We rely on our customers to find the bugs!” Yes, they really said that! Even long standing MS apps such as MS Word are still riddled with bugs. A third-party testing company showed me a host of coding errors on just the first page of MS Word that their product found. They used that example to sell their testing product. Tired of being stung by this fact, Microsoft bought the testing company to shut them up !!! 👎🏻
@@saltyroe3179 the problem with turning off MCAS is that it requires activating stab trim cutoff. Not only it deactivates MCAS it's also deactivate any autopilot and assist on the stabilizers. Because Boeing doesn't use FBW, the stab controls are mechanically connected to the lever so it's almost impossible to control the stabilizers because how heavy the trim lever are even on normal stable flight. That yoke trim button just moved the stab too slow to to maintain stable.
Even in the best case scenario, it makes the landing almost dangerous because in manual flight the controlling pilot already hands on yoke and throttle. And trim requires constant adjustment.
That's why the the Ethiopian flight reactivates the MCAS even after correctly hit the stab trim cutoff. The trim levers are almost forcing 300 kg to turn it in a nosedive situation.
It genuinely makes me sad watching the pinnacle of human engineering fall apart and forgotten in the name of greed and profit.
How many suits will be jailed for corporate manslaugher?I would imagine a big,fat zero.
exactly so why would they care?
It is late stage capitalism and it's failing. Greed and corporate welfare. Too big to fail. The Boeing CEO who resigned after over 300+ deaths, LEFT WITH A 60+ MILLION DOLLAR GOLDEN PARACHUTE!! The system is broken.
We need a revolution in the French style. Our 🇺🇲 system is too corrupt and broken. Greed is not good.
I saw in one documentary an engineer saying that this type of lousy construction/design/QA work will show up down the line, e.g. in 5 or 10 years time. That means for example that a defective bolt will not show any problem on a new plane, but it will break in eventually, causing a catastrophic tragedy. He mentioned that hundred of Boeing planes manufactured around a decade ago will start showing problems now, or they are already having tons problems. As an engineer myself, during my career in oil & gas I have seen this type of lies from certain managers, pushing things out of the door as fast as possible, cutting corners very aggressively.
My sister missed the Ethiopia Airways flight a few years ago we are very grateful she survived but very sad that so many lives were lost
Just dont use flights, it is better to levitate manually
@@arkvsi8142All right, how do we do that?
@@arkvsi8142
No, it’s better that unscrupulous MBA leaders of Boeing stop lying and deceiving government airline regulators.
@@arkvsi8142
No, how about not have businessmen in charge of airlines who are too dumb to understand engineering and basic flight science?
If refrigerators are built on the cheap with components that fail.in a short time it usually doesn’t kill people. If an airliner producer cuts corners passengers and crew die.
Pilot first.
Have you seen the reports of exploding refrigerators? Isobutane as a refrigerant seems like a bad idea... Even worse is a lack of failsafes that make it possible for the fridge to explode violently
@@VYBEKAT I see repeated accounts in the media of late model fridges suffering terminal compressor failure completely within the warranty period. I also have seen reports that the manufacturer claims that a disclaimer is printed on the outside of the shipping carton - which the purchaser never sees as the icebox is delivered AFTER being unboxed.
@@VYBEKATR290, which is odorless propane, is started to be used in smaller refrigeration systems because it’s cheap, efficient & is not harmful to the environment when released. The push to more flammable refrigerants is all thanks to the EPA. Every single repair technician would much rather use older refrigerants as they were simple to use & much less dangerous. You can thank government regulations for exploding refrigerators.
Boeing is the perfect example of what could go wrong with corporate more willing to serve their shareholders instead of building great products or services!
That’s why the Brazilian EMBRAER stepped down the deal with Boeing. You are known by your safe jets, strictly rules before launching a new model and face Boeing, still using 90s technologies. Some reports from EMBRAER engineers about Boeing methods, make us afraid to fly Boeing. 90s technologies to save money. 😢
Perfect is a strong word. Subway?
The money did not go to the shareholders. Boeing hasn't paid a dividend since March, 2020.
What amazes me is all the great minds behind economics of industrialization on capitalism and v socialism did not anticipate this level of criminal greed in the free market. Everyone assumed self interest would put this kind of corruption in check - but nope, we live in a world in which these criminal fucktards are given multi million dollar severance packages. While those that make them rich (the workers) keep quiet out of fear of not feeding their families. Or worse are murdered when they become whistleblowers.
Traveling? Boycott Boeing. Not on principle but to save your life.
Wrong
mentour pilot and coldfusion make such professional documentaries I'm so happy to see them both in one video
I worked for them here in the Uk, and even though they have provided me with the pathway into aviation, I was becoming more and more sick of their ways, until I couldn't handle it anymore and left, I am so happy right now with my life, that I struggle to find words for it. They always, and I mean always prioritise profits over absolutely anything, it's hardwired into the corporate system, the more money is saved by leadership, the bigger bonuses for the year, leading to selfishness and greed instead of first time quality. There are some seriously smart engineers within the company, yet they are seen as the bottom of the pile compared to someone in the office, because to progress within the company, one must end up in the office. Anyway, its all fake, their pr team works absolute overtime to tick boxes and improve the image of the company. It breaks my heart because i thought i would retire from working with them and i could barely last 4 years. Superb video and very factual.
Having Boeing regulate itself is like having a law enforcement agency investigating itself.
"We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong"
Every agency has an internal investigation section.
It is okay for Boeing and Airbus to certify its own work, where EASA and FAA do the audits for the overall certification. The issue is that the technology complexity for an aircraft is highly compliated, and authorities have no chance of discovering technical errors, but only the manufacturer itself. This trust however, may NEVER EVER be abused. For instance, Airbus, is very well aware of the "just" culture (PART 21 requirement for obtaining Design Organisation and Production Organisation Approval), where people can speak up, and it is well implemented and it works excellent. However rule number one: Safety first! Then greed. Not opposite. It's very simple.
Like the US police
@knightofsvea604 it's not just the police. Nearly every US industry has their own internal investigation group. In fact, I can't think of a single major corporate or governmental body that doesn't attempt to police itself. It's pretty standard practice across the board.
I think the fact that the plug was hidden and just looked like a regular row of windows from the inside would've made it even more terrifying for the passengers. I can imagine it would be terrifying enough if a door that *looked* like a door flew off, but to have a random hole rip out of the side of the plane just seems so much worse
I'd probably need a new pair of pants after
Most people (including myself) wouldn't even know what a door plug is before the incident, so for a lot of people it'd probably look like the fuselage of the plane just ripped apart somehow.
@@Ryan-wx1bi Well one passenger lost his shirt, I don't think anyone actually lost their pants... maybe next time :)
Luckily the sits next to it were empty. Imagine if someone were sitting there, kinda casually looking through the window, appreciating the view, maybe even leaning their head against it (I know I sometimes do it if I have a sit next to a window) and suddenly the window and the whole wall it was attached to flies away...
Probably your neck will broke because of the sudden pressure change...
Thanks!
I want to say this because it is important, I am an engineer at Pratt and Whitney and I can say that we do indeed have a culture of speaking up if you see a larger issue. I personally have brought up issues that are then escalated and acted upon swiftly and our quality team is very thorough in terms of making sure that everything is proper and correct. Boeing I hope, is an outlier in the industry but I don’t currently see that sort of activity where I am currently.
This is why Pratt and Whitney engines are still highly desired.
Looks like I'm only flying on A320 neos from now on
3 minutes in and the biggest problem is addressed for all big companies, stockholders profit. As someone that holds stocks I want to invest for the long run in a company that produces quality products. Not profit that will get lost in a lawsuit.
Idgaf lol. Make me a million in a day and buy my shares noob😂
well this surely hurt their profits lol
Lol boeing has like 28 dollar a share in the negative shareholder equity, the interest rate on the debt load alone is like 5 billion.. they have not been profitable for years and years. If the shareholders really were concerned with profitability you would have to get rid of the entire board of government cronies leading the company and those connections are about the only thing that is keeping them alive right now.
@@ispamalot Oh snap truth bomb!
CEOs are paid based on last quarter results.
I've worked with QC and left three companies in horror after witnessing so many mal practices.
People always tend to blame the ones who bring up issues to light. "Out of sight, out of mind as many people says today. And they don't want you to record your findings so they can pretend unawareness if they get caught.
Certifications relies too heavily on self reporting and self regulation, no one takes time to take a closer look to things that are very easy to find.
As a machinist I have been asked sometimes to "make it quick and wrong" as I call it but I always refuse as I want to be able to go home knowing that I don't have to redo it in 2 weeks for free as it failed and generally catastrophically
@8:57
How was the move (of removing the mention of MCAS from the manual) able to "slip through the radar" of FAA?
Was there some corruption?
One of the biggest issues with employee feedback is when concerns are presented and nothing changes because the managers don’t care. It really sucks that this continues to happen, maybe what’s needed is to revamp who is considered for management rolls. An mba really doesn’t mean jack, I’d prefer to work for someone who moved up to their current position doing the same job they are now supervising.
Yup - I was one of the original whistleblowers with wells fargo… I walked away and lost everything because I wasn’t willing to perpetuate their lies…
I disagree with Mentour on a few issues. One that whistleblower reporting. Dominic Gates who is a reporter that works for the Seattle Times had a whistleblower at Boeing and was reporting quality defects and issues. Boeing found that whistleblower and fired him from his job. Boeing in the past has used their contacts in the government to find whistleblowers in their company to fire them. Its happening even now since Boeing's culture has not changed. The current whistleblower to reveal that their were no bolts on the doors revealed that at Leeham News. Everyone there was warning that whistleblower to clean out his computer and make sure he can't be traced. Even Dominic Gates went over to the forums and requested a meeting with the Whistleblower as did reporters from sites like Reuters, CNN and other news sites.
And of course we find out that their were no bolts on the doors. This was days before news broke into the media. The way Boeing works, they work to intimidate and bring fear to the work place, so no one speaks up if they see any quality issues arise. This isn't going to change over night or even be done anytime soon. The management at those Boeing plants need to be fired.
It's not the management at the plants, it's the C-suite executives who need to be fired. But I guess in all these years, shareholders interests have taken much of a front seat that unless there's a major change in shareholding, new management will find their hands tied if not fired
Oh and don’t forget the whistleblower unexpectedly died in an apparent “self inflicted injury”
@@asmita-
Management at the plants too. Don't lie.
The government must also be prevented from having the ability to spy on people like that.
I worked for McDonnell Douglas through the Merger and I hate to see that the blame is put on Douglas for the changes. Why? Because its paints a picture of the people employed by MD were also part of that crappy greedy mindset that upper management had. We were not of that mindset. We were proud dedicated employees who cared a ton about First Time Quality and not profits. It was very unfortunate that we were being led by the biggest bean counter of all time, Harry Stonecipher and he carried over to Boeing.
I appreciate your story and dedication to your work! I would surely hope anyone with a functioning brain would know not to blame the employees, the rot in these companies is always at the top and the blame seems to always fall on the people who have little to no control over it.
Yep, both Boeing and MD had this creeping MBA culture bulshit that was harming them. It had fully taken root in MD, but was also on its way for Boeing.
The big difference is that there was a quadre of engineers and people who rose up from engineering stuck firm in some executive and management positions. People with knowledge of the industry and actually gave a shit about engineering principles. You CAN make something both safe, and cheap, and fast. But you need a baseline of logic to build it around. You can't conjure simplicity from nothing, it takes executives and a CEO who can understand production challenges, engineering challenges and the impact of short terms savings on the overall product.
The merger meant that the decks got stacked up in the financier's favor, and then the layoffs could be used to strategically pick and chose who to let go and who to insert, now that there was 2 companies with their entire management structure to choose from.
So the executives of both essentially got to oust anyone who didn't agree with them, or was being a mild inconvenience.
That bean counter came from MD, so it's natural that MD will be blamed.
Literally all publicly traded American companies care only about profit and their stock price. As long as they can make money for themselves and their stock holders, they couldn't care less about safety.
I spent 45 years in the airlines and have logged over 34k hours almost entirely on Boeing aircraft . I am type rated on five Boeing aircraft including the 747,777,and 767. What has happened to the company breaks my heart .
The email that shocked me was an email by a Boeing employee that said (I’m paraphrasing here) “use the Jedi mind trick” on FAA if you have to.
I’m still startled by this.
Thanks for the video.
When I worked for Boeing, my boss said if I spoke up (on a non-aviation) program, I would be laid off at first chance.
Back in the 1990's Al-Jazera did a long story on shortcuts and bad practices at a Boeing manufacturing plant in the US, that had been reported by the union.
It was a TV news item about 40+ minutes long, shown on Dateline SBS back in the Jana Wendt hosting days.
It’s not Boeing; it’s literally every major company in every industry these days. This is the system within which we live now.
And narcissists, narcissistic people who have no empathy, no morals.
Yup. This seems like a microcosm of a lot of what's wrong with the world today.
Yep. Greed has well and truly taken over. I see it in my own job. Targets doubled but pay not going up. Nobody cares about quality anymore
It IS Boeing and shows how the elite have kept this dangerous piece of rubbish company alive. Shame on jim Kramer for relentlessly promoting this thing and the congress and senators worshipping at the altar of this disastrous company that should have been shut down years ago.
Boeing fired it's best people. My uncle worked for them in Seattle. Dude is a genius. They laid him off in 2021. He asked what they would do without him and his team. They said they have no idea.
4:45 Nature of the scandal
5:14 Consequences
6:10 tragedies
9:41 repercussions
11:18 Alaskan airlines incident
20:00 mutual responsibility
The corner cutting is not just about the safety culture at Boeing. They also stopped designing their parts and forced their vendors to design the parts themselves, while also cutting the margins from vendors drastically. Now the vendors can't bother with ensuring top quality because they aren't paid enough to care.
If they are not paid enough to care then they wouldn't sign the contract, basic personal responsibility and taking a minute to understand what a paper says before signing it.
@@mytech6779 it's not that simple. Boeing is basically the only customer they have. They can't relocate to Europe and become a new supplier for Airbus. It's either take the deal or close the company. That's why Boeing was able to leverage their position and force the vendors into predatory deals. When their margins get decimated, they can't ensure the same level of quality. Quality costs money. Moreover, Boeing isn't doing a lot of QC either, so, it is good enough for the vendor.
@@berzerius If the contract is not profitable then you go out of business anyway, a smart owner knows when to cut the losses and move on.
A supplier's bad internal accounting and poor market foresight are not the fault of Boeing. A machine shop can produce much more than just 737 parts.
Short of physical violence there is no force involve in negotiating a contract, violence would result in an invalid contract anyway.
What's more: Airbus buys plenty from US suppliers, including Boeing's own spinoff Spirit.
@@mytech6779 contracts are an important part of the relationship but they are not everything. Goodwill is also important in a successful partnership in complex projects like commercial aeroplanes. Contacts don't cover everything and can never do, no matter how hard you try. Both the parties can still screw each other over while still abiding by a seemingly watertight contract. The quality of parts can drop significantly, but still meet the quality requirements outlined in the contract.
@@berzerius The overall intent of the contract matters when it comes to legal interpretation, courts do not favor parties playing clever tricks;
»Mala grammatica non vitiat chartam
“bad grammar does not invalidate the document”
And most good contracts actually do include a catch-all section for anything not explicitly covered.
Goodwill and reputation is important in any business, but the underlying fact remains that no one will sign a contract that doesn't result in net profit in the expected outcome, and anyone with any clue will also have a stoploss for a worst case outcome.
Slight correction: yes, the passengers were lucky with the door incident, had it happened at cruising altitude the consequences could well have been far worse. But it wasn't just luck, it's also thanks to the skills of the crew aboard, pilots and flight attendants alike that kept this a zero fatality incident. I listened to the whole radio conversation between the pilot and the tower, and she's a badass: calm and collected all throughout, and when the tower saw that they were descdening a bit faster than ideal when coming to land (understandable, they have no idea at this point as to how long the plane will stay intact, so hurrying up makes sense) and the controler asks her if they need to do a go-around (meaning: to circle around and get a better landing speed/angle), she just calmly goes: "I think we got it, Alaska 1282." and then seconds later puts the plane down like a glove.
That's some true skill and professionalism there, Boeing should be taking some notes.
But as you say, had they been less lucky and the door blew at 37k then no professionalism or skill would've mattered in preventing damage
And then you add the other issues of companies wanting to remove the copilot to spend less, and also requiring less experienced pilots. Greed will kill us all
I listened to the conversation too. for me she wasnt calm and didnt use phraseology like a mayday call which lead to missunderstanding between tower and pilots. usually the training would kick in but it seemed to me she wasnt trained enough.
@@stilogenoonly if we let them get away with it . At that point it's on the people and their complacency .
@oddererste
I'm not a pilot, but the channel I first learned of the audio from on YT is ran by a former fighter pilot (channel name C. W. Lemoine) has a video on it with him reacting to it woth 3 opther pilots, 2 of whomare also ex-military. The mayday criticism is just BS. Mayday is one of the commonly used phrases used in international aviation, it's not the only accepted one. She declares an emergency, states the situation, the amount of people on board, and immediately starts descending and vectoring as per the tower instructions, and makes it to the ground safely, on her first attempt without a go-around. At no point was anyone misinformed or not aware of what was happening, controllers on the ground were fully aware that it's an emergency and acted accordingly, and her not saying mayday and instead using the accepted phraseology of 'emergency', didn't change the outcome at all, (nor was it against the standard protocols.)
That's skill. In fact, the militarypilots all say they'd have done the same because no-one in the milirary uses mayday. 'Properly' using mayday requires it top be stated 3 times ("Mayday, mayday, mayday..." and then follwoing it up with what's going on, as one of them puts it "I don't like mayday, because it's wasted comms". What this means is that you're essentially just wasting time during an extremely critical situation when you can get to the point faster and more easily by skipping the whole mayday and just directly declaring an emergency.
So no my man, you simply do not know what you're talking about there. She performed perfectly, and that's not coming from me, but from professional pilots who know a little bit more about aviation and these situations than either one of us ever will.
The way it was when I worked for pratt & whitney in Ireland,if you made a mistake and held up your hand the mistake was fixed and there was not a problem....it was encouraged....if you tried to cover up your mistake or not own up to it or tried to blame someone else for your mistake you could be disciplined from a warning a suspension or even lose your job,so it was in your interest to raise your hand...
We also used the ace tools like root cause analysis etc to find out how the mistake happened and to make sure it never happened again with targets of zero escapes which we achieved.
Then we were shut down and our jobs moved to america and singapore ....😢
Exactly. Hiding mistakes means loss of learning.
PWAI excellent quality. I worked P&W 18+ Yr, BA 15+ Yr., always in turmoil, never complete one project, on to more, all led by inexperienced "manages" "retaliation" is art at BA "wink wink"
ColdFusion is by far one of the most talented people in UA-cam. You make great short informative documentary with High Quality video and you make music!
This is common in engineering and construction companies... eventually admins, accountants, sales-people and MBAs take over the 'business'... and run it into the ground...
My dad used to work for Spirit. They are basically the company that Boeing use as techs that would of plugged that panel on the emergency exit. He hated it. Was constantly overworked and the managers had very unreasonable completion targets on various tasks
Spirit Airlines uses all Airbus.
@@normapenetta5940 I'm not talking about Spirit Airlines, mate. Ready it again.
@@normapenetta5940 This comment isn't talking about Spirit Airlines, it's talking about Spirit Aerosystems, which is a major supplier and assembly partner of Boeing - originally it was actually part of Boeing but they separated it off as its own business a while back.
@@normapenetta5940 What the f* is a Spirit Airline lol.... God bless you.
@@dc4825 It's a US budget airline. Very budget. Go look for UA-cam videos with titles like "Airport Karen drunk total meltdown, Tasered, jail..." or similar to see just who flies Spirit airline.
I've spent the better part of a decade working the aerospace industry. It's a well-known rule that you DON'T work for Boeing for many of these reasons.
You're treated as expendable, asked to do ethically questionable things with the engineering, and then inevitably laid off after at best a couple of years.
A friend of mine used to subcontract (worked for another company but worked on a Boeing program) and he said even with the perks of being a sub it was still miserable.
Sounds exactly like what employees ar Merck / Pfizer and all the others are experiencing . Pushing questionable drugs on unsuspecting patients while doing constant surveillance in the doctor's treatment room via the fabulous infomercial LED interactive camera system . The American consumer is so naive , so abused , so gaslit ....... They still believe that the healthcare system as well as the government in general is working on their behalf .
Still senior engineers don't care about what happens? I am pretty sure they must have someone with a keen eye that could have easily seen what the mcas could do
@@aguysaid5457its like you didn't watch the video 😂
@@JizzSock_ I understand it. It doesn't matter what environment I have been in. How small or big the team has been. Always there have been 2-3 people who always think about the worst case scenario. Now imagine a place like Boeing.
I know a engineer who said that working for Boeing was a good first job but move on.
Priorities
1. Quality
2. Profit
Boeing and other companies changed this rule. As an European I can't understand this.
Reporting issues got me in a tight spot once. A situation was created, that made me resign. I took a month's break, joined another company, a much smaller one.
Then, one day, these previous company folks called me, asking some questions about how I used to do certain things. I simply said, I don't remember any more, disconnected the call.
Thankfully, in my line of business, people lose a truck load of money if things go wrong, nobody loses their life.
The American aerospace industry used to be the main source of pride, now it is a source of shame. How dare these executives bring it down.
What do you expect from an economic system that incentivizes greed? There were some restrains pre-1980s, but they were all set loose following the collapse of the Soviet Union. This is the age of neo-liberalism, welcome.
Our country only bought Boeing and airplanes and Boeing were synonymous. Now everyone is praying when boarding one. The executives should have been jailed
Reagan is to blame for this; unbridled deregulation across the board for everything
Unlike England at least the US still has an aviation industry.
UK makes the wings for Airbus. Rolls Royce make aeroengines too. But don't worry, we are a long way down the slippery slope of corrupt corporate capitalism too. @@akear
This video is chilling after finding out John Barnett, Boeing whistle blower and former employee, has been found dead.
more like was found KILLED
Epsteined.
Two people are dead from bringing up concerns about safety. That is terrifying.
The stress and lack of support must be overwhelming
I knew of someone on that Ethiopian plane crash flight, they lived down the road from me, and I was flying the same day. I was watching the plane crash footage on the news while waiting to board the plane. While I was waiting to board the plane, everyone was looking in the same direction at a wall, there was nothing special about the wall, I then realized everyone was looking away from the TV, they didn't want to see the plane crash footage because they were going to be boarding a plane, that's what actually caught my attention in the first place.
Isn't that the weirdest feature of those sheeples ? It's almost as bad as ignoring the devastating harm that the mandated vaccines are causing . But really what choice do we have if our government sells us out to the corporations ?
I love watching episodes of Air Crash Investigation while on long flights
Did they show news of a plane crash at the airport? wth
Moving corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago and then onward to Arlington, Va. was extremely shortsighted. Removing corporate management & bean-counters from their manufacturing roots in Seattle shows that the production & aerospace engineering culture was given secondary status to the corporate lobbying pinheads leading Boeing down a treacherous path.
It's only shortsighted from a perspective of engineers making a quality product. Moving to Chicago was all about cutting costs and boosting stock value. And the move to DC is only doubling down on this position since now whenever a problem arises they can just drive down the road to payoff regulators for the problem to go away. They're the only game in town for public air travel and the govt won't let them burn, so the cycle is bound to continue.
😊😊😊pppo
Good ol crony capitalism
@@jamespaydo "It's only shortsighted from a perspective of engineers making a quality product." - Which is the point, because no amount of cost cutting matters if your product goes down the drain and nobody wants to buy it anymore. You need a good product to keep business. You can only lie to people for so long before your bad reputation catches up to you.
Boeing seems to view commercial aircraft second as being a Defense Dept. contractor must be more important for long term stability, at least to the management.
Very cool seeing MentourPilot on the channel, especially when he's covered so much of Boeing's accidents in excruciating detail before; a perfect match!
I work as a QA engineer in the European aerospace industry and the fight to keep quality above production deadlines is still around, though it's not in the same league as Boeing.
Fortunately this has realigned people's views on quality being paramount instead of "well it's fit for purpose" mentality. It's just sad that this is what had to happen in order for people to take notice
I worked for Boeing, (2007-2010), and saw the changes in attitude first-hand. Work was being sent to non-union shops in a direct attack on organized labor. The 787 program was partly moved to South Carolina for their inexperienced, but minimum wage work force, while strikes and hiring freezes were taking place in Seattle and Portland. Who would you want making your airplanes, trained and qualified aerospace workers, or some bumpkin who was making Lattes last week? The South Carolina plant had unbelievable turnover. Essentially, you could have made more money bagging groceries than building 787s.
Question: Were design and assembly process changes (and the like) made in order to accommodate lower-skill / less-experienced workers?
@@x77punk77x It seems not. And, I think it’s impossible, as analogy boeing is trying to serve michellin star cuisine food using Mc Donalds workers
PS: good analogy copied from someone else
My two favorite people!!! I began watching Petter on Mentour Pilot. His analytical skills actually helped me get over my fear of flying.
Thank you for ALL your hard work. Love Cold Fusion!!!
Those videos of the production line workers saying "no way" they would fly on these planes was all I needed to hear. This proud American will be flying on Airbus for the foreseeable future
Thinking the SAME. Is there a way to choose what manufacturer you fly on???
@@foxxrider250rI wonder if the flights list which plane is used?
@@foxxrider250ryou can usually see it on the flight details before you book
Calhoun’s quote on “our customers”….customers are their shareholders.
Been at Boeing 20yrs. They outsource so much engineering to India, Russia, etc. just to save a buck. They don’t care that it’s costing them billions in the end. It’s sickening
Gotta love the stock market. As long as you're cutting costs, no one cares at all about how your company is doing.
And yet... Way less accidents than other transportation methods...
India has got some of the best engineers in the world. Most of the CEOs of top American companies are Indians. Its the Boeing leadership which is at fault.
Gotta make the quarterly numbers. That’s all that counts.
@@shreyas_india Being a CEO doesn't make you a good engineer. It makes you good at office politics.
The Aloha flight 243 was due to N73711 being a very old plane that had been through an enormous number of pressure cycles from island hopping as it flew around the Hawaiian archipelago, this caused metal fatigue in the airframe. _Following that incident, N73711 was written off where it stood, N73712, N73713 and N73717 were found to have accumulated a similar number of pressure cycles and scrapped soon after_
the mere fact that such major defects were detected while the aircraft was still in its "Service Life" means that Boeing also didn't properly stress test the components to accurately determine their lifespan, managing to miss that for the actual structural BODY of an airframe is an even bigger oversight still.
@@Simon-hb9rf From what I can remember of the NTSB report, Aloha's maintenance record keeping was found to be deficient at the time.
One of my best friends wife, was on that flight.
It has been years since she told me the story of the experience, but I do remember that she told it very well, and it stuck with me for a couple of days. (meaning that it lingered in the back or front of my mind 100% of the time)
@@Thesaurcery4U2C Such was the damage N73711 suffered, the cabin forward of the wing had drooped by as much as 8° off the datum line. Amazing flying by the flight crew and the cabin crew managed to keep everyone as calm as possible, despite the trauma of losing one of their colleagues. How that plane stayed together was anyone's guess. These were some of the earliest 737s to come off the production line in 1969 and they were just worn out.
And now they murdered a whistleblower, lol nice work Boeing.
I am in insurance industry. The same mentality is in my company. Before we used to have a quite big QA department and before all changes rolled out into production, the changes would go through intensive QA testing. But now, jobs are out sourced to offshore. QA department is never heard by new people including high level managers. The policy now is rolling out new products asap. If there is issue, fix it later.
you should definitely do an update to this one now, unbelievable
GRANTED
Yea. RIP. That's some Russian level stuff right there.
Organisations that accept your money should only do so if it cannot harm you. Stock exchange speculation and gambling excepted.
Yet most public transport denies that or only offers a small amount of compensation. There would be none had the EU not stepped in.
Aircraft are complicated things with many possible points of failure, be it mechanical or buried among the millions of lines of code that created them and keeps them aloft.
Eventually every error can be traced back to a person.
Something somewhere was overlooked. Like hiring someone who does not work for the people paying the money for. It is a wonder that there are not more incidents.
He just did
Management needs to be held criminally liable
Won't happen. Stop calling for it. It's literally impossible.
The former CEO for the 300+ deaths quit and was given a 60+ million golden parachute. This is late stage capitalism and it's failing. Greed is not good & is destroying our country & economy.
Another thing, coming from prior aviation, is maintenance man hours. The amount of work needed to maintain an aircraft per flight hour is insane. Companies won’t hire enough technicians, and the technicians they have are overworked and miss things.
I am going to be having nightmares on my next flight, thank you.
Great to see Petter here. An authentic voice in an industry rife with noise.
When booking a flight always ask what Aircraft you are booked on.
Thank you for the advice 🙏🏿.
Yeah, if it's Boeing I'm still going.
I understand asking about the aircraft. Depending on the airline though, it can change often times at the last minute.
When are we going to hold executives responsible for their decisions on cost cutting and taking short cuts?
By having them step down and retire with their fat pension
Why do anything? They can pay the settlement.
How? They’re not breaking laws, and stockholders evidently like what they’re doing.
Executives are never held accountable. They always kick the can down the road and blame everyone else. Then they leave with a golden parachute.
generally, holding CEOs accountable only really happens if they manage to upset other wealthy people. The only people they could potentially hurt with their products that matter enough to get them in trouble already fly private jets so are not about be on one oftheir commerical aircraft.
What a well-made and informative video this is! You have a new subscriber. How could I NOT subscribe? Just a question: why show the cockpit of a Russian airliner at 5:18? I work as a QC so I spot details...
One rather disturbing coincidence I found from the two MAX crashes was the number of lives lost: 346.
In 1974, 346 people perished onboard Turkish Airlines Flight 981 when the DC-10's cargo door flew out mid flight, leading to a complete loss of control. The root cause? McDonnell Douglas' profit first approach led them to knowingly launch their new DC-10 aircraft with a fatal flaw in the cargo door system. Even though they had a close shave in 1972, when the exact same thing happened, but the plane was able to land safely, MD still did the bare minimum to rectify the flawed cargo door system, which led to the crash of Flight 981.
To hear that MD wearing Boeing's skin killed another 346 people because of their profit first approach, in eerily similar circumstances to their 1974 debacle, is just shocking and disturbing to me.
The love of money is truly the root of all evil
it’s so maddening that some creatures out there conduct business like this. they’re so ravenous in pursuit of profit that they’ll sacrifice future profits for instant profits. they can’t tolerate not making profit over any span of time and are willing to tear apart the foundation to build the roof higher. it’s the logic of a crack head.
@@slippinjimmy239 that's because they won't be around to deal with the consequences of their actions. They'll be removed from the position, with a nice fat severance package, won't face any consequences, and will either retire happy and rich, or get picked to head another big corporation and run it into the ground to make share prices go up. It's a cycle that rewards rather than punishes.
Edit: I mean just look at the merger between McDonnell Douglas and Boing in 1997. Even though MD was the side that was losing heavily and needed the merger, it was their executives and management who ended up at the top of the newly merged company, not the Boeing personnel who bought the struggling McDonnell Douglas
@@paulyoung7551
This relates to the rising cult of the CEO coupled with the depreciation of workers in the United States. This is arguably a branch of Reaganist thinking where business leaders are cast as folk heroes hailed as “geniuses” and shareholders are massively privileged over employees, who are seen as expendable unless they are hypercompetitive superproducers who practice the same aggressively top-down managerial styles as their superiors.
These toxic trends were/are clearly anathema to optimal engineering and maintaining a strong safety culture.
@@slippinjimmy239 they're just people, everyone is susceptible to corruption
I love how they call a door being ripped right off the plane a ‘depressurisation’. That’s good.
Next time my wife is having an asthma attack I'll just reassure her she's depressurizing.
You can’t escape from the mentality of ‘profit first’ in all business; that why a business was created in the first place. It’s when that is the focus and when executives are rewarded generously more for their money making performance versus technical excellence, then we go down this deep rabbit hole
Boeing was profitable and did very well. But profit extraction for the sole benefit of top management and shareholders did not happen when Boeing was a company run by engineers. the 787 development wasn't cheaper in the end. They could as well have done it right - with the benefit of keeping their reputation. Under the old spirit. they would have had a NEW development to replace the 737 in the early 2000s. Of course then they would have reinvested a lot of the profits.
These massive failures do not only cost their reputation - they cost money. They are lucky that Airbus cannot even fully capitalize on their incompetence, they cannot produce fast enough.
It was weird Boeing moved its corporate headquarter from Seattle to Chicago. The headquarter doesn't want to be with the engineering groups.