I'm a mathematician and math professor who read through that entire document. My honest takeaway is this. About 1/3 of it is pretty uncontroversial stuff, about 1/3 of it is highly questionable "math reform" stuff dressed up in new clothes, and the last 1/3 of it is complete and utter bullshit.
How about you stay in your lane. I don't go to an engineer to get a heart transplant. Typical of a mathematician desperate to throw their degree around.
@@voteforno.6155 Bc your math degree has nothing to do with this paper. The fact that you are making this comparison makes me think you aren't a math prof; you are a math teacher. If you had a degree, you would understand that academic fields don't bleed into others. You aren't a sociologist, don't act like you are.
@@hoboryan3455 The paper ("A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction") is not just a descriptive work of research. It is prescriptive and makes many concrete proposals on how math should be taught. Many of the recommendations are reasonable and would improve instruction. But many of the recommendations would be disastrous in the classroom. For example, they advocate the immediate introduction of very complicated, complex examples of a math topic before considering simpler examples. This is a terrible idea. Every good math teacher knows that the first examples you give should be the simplest ones, clearly illustrating the essence of the concept without unnecessary complications or distractions. This is true from grade school arithmetic all the way to graduate level seminars. To be concrete, you don't include fractions or decimals in your first examples of solving linear equations. You don't start with the most complicated, messy functions after defining the derivative. You don't start talking about group actions and stabilizers to students who just learned what a subgroup is. As a particularly insulting example, they claim that a focus on "getting the right answer" is an example of white supremacy culture. First of all, while it is possible to give open-ended questions from time to time, or questions with multiple answers, in math 99% of the time, there are definitely right and wrong answers, and we should focus on whether students' answers are actually correct. The idea that correctness, logical coherence, and precise thinking are uniquely associated to whiteness strikes me as racist. I teach at a community college where about 80% of the students are students of color, and they certainly don't view being correct and precise in their work as somehow inconsistent with their identity. There are a lot of things that can be done to close equity gaps. The most effective programs are those that provide social and cultural support for underrepresented students, integrating them into a network of other students, professors, and mentors who can guide their path and help them when they stumble. That work is difficult and takes practice and diligence. It's also far less sexy than publishing 100-page documents full of the latest buzzwords.
@@voteforno.6155"You don't start talking about group actions and stabilizers to students who just learned what a subgroup is." Maybe you are wrong. Maybe these teachers found a better way that does that route. Again, you are a lowly mathematician; you know nothing of practical and purely live in theoretical. If you were a practical mathematician, you'd call yourself an engineer. And teaching is in another level of practicality beyond that. Stay in your lane. "For example, they advocate the immediate introduction of very complicated, complex examples of a math topic before considering simpler examples" How crappy. you definitely aren't an english teacher bc that isn't an good example. That is a description;; an example you have specifics xD Can you give me an actual example to work with? "in math 99% of the time, there are definitely right and wrong answers" Yeah see, this is why you are either not a prof or a bad teacher. I can't count the number of times in university math I got the wrong answer, but still got 7/8 on the question bc my reasoning, process and logic was sound; I just make a small mistake in calculating the final number. This is just a wrong statement. Are you even a teacher at all? I suggest you let the teaching and the sociology to the teachers and the sociologists.
I think there is a misunderstanding of what people are calling for. The ask is actually to change what we understand to be objective. Ignoring emotional elements or trauma or assuming a researcher who is not part of the community being researched is inately impartial, that's all logical fallacies, when you consider logic and objectivity from a holistic perspective.
Googling "objectivity is racist" is dangerous in a Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror sort of way. _The Oregon Department of Education (ODE) recently encouraged teachers to register for training that encourages “ethnomathematics” and argues, among other things, that White supremacy manifests itself in the focus on finding the right answer._ It's funny because as a so-called "creative-thinker," my way of doing math almost never matched what the teacher did. So I spent much of my youth in trouble for arguing _the _*_only thing that matters_*_ is if my answers are right. And if my method works, leave me alone._ People pushing this sort of stuff are so vile it's impossible to properly articulate.
How is this not historical materialism? A savvy operator should be able to switch between race/class in popular discourse with some facility by now. Speaking of one does not preclude the existence of the other.
@@aaronmoore1171 watch it again. Jen is referring to a particular sloppy piece of work called "characteristics of white supremacy culture" that gets circulated uncritically far and wide.
@@rgzhaffie The piece is a list of bullet points basically. It's true that the author doesn't spell out and make explicit the historical material conditions that lead to it in this list of bullet points. Not sure how that makes it sloppy though. It's not an essay. The work thus falls upon the reader to determine the historical narrative should that be their main aim and perhaps the inability to provide such context is sloppy, though to claim this textual structure needs that is an over reach.
You spoke a lot about freedom at the end of this episode. I’d like to point out that freedom is not a one way street. Freedom means responsibility. One doesn’t work without the other. But as Thomas Sowell (arguably the most influential intellectual of our time) said, freedom means inequality. If you really think about it, he has a point. Regarding your point on “workplace freedoms”, the WOKE and cancel culture of today have turned ordinary workplaces into dictatorial hubs, it’s not the right that did that. They have turned into places where ordinary people are being censored and not allowed to state their own opinions in fear of loosing their jobs. These things can be viewed both ways. Depending on how you look at it. Everything can be pushed too far. Balance is where we want to be.
As a high school guidance counselor, I always like it when Jacobin tackles topics in education from a Left perspective, the videos & articles have actually helped me push back against the lib hegemony that dominates my field
These truncated video clips are glimpses of self-analysis toward well-being and agency, not a rejection of Twain, Newton, Mozart or Einstein. This rapport is best considered by "The Philosophical Aspects of Cultural Differences," by Dr. Edwin Nichols. However, what is framed and curated on this blog episode, is best summed up by Dr. Ben Carson. "...They (liberals) put you (blacks) in a little category, a little box, you have to think this way. How could you dare come off the plantation?" "Liberal" New York State only grudgingly stopped chattel slavery, July 4, 1827, and inmate-based prison gerrymandering in 2010. Morality? No! The state's economy and delicate social order could still implode without an engineered school-to-prison pipeline of human "fodder" and related government make-work "jobs." The "poverty industry" -- which includes many championing "class" rights---is filled with "liberals" who have vested interests in the status quo of ascendant and deprecating aspects of Eurocentrism and Anglo-Teutonic hegemony. This "system's" seemingly holiest intentions and activities can't function without anti-black racism. A "steel man" critique that intends to solve these problems needs the opponent's perspective. Here, put school funding, special education, property taxes, red lining, busing, "tracking" and Texan education books on the table...then do the social math.
Here's some culturally important math: The farther that we, the left, get from common sense, the greater the loss of critical mass in our movement, and hence, the less likely we are to get anything done.
I can absolutely envision how Rome (and other similar entities) went insane and fell to empire with this kind of thinking. This kind of stuff does nothing short of pushing people into the arms of opportunistic actual fascists.
1,000% agree, former bernie support (until he abandoned the left in 2016) fan of Kyle kulinski and breaking points. But I will vote for the anti woke candidate in 2024. Probably going to DeSantis. The democrats are going to push a woke monster in my opinion. Wonder if it will be Kamala v.s. DeSantis? She will get crushed
@@mrfuninthesun33 You say you stopped supporting Bernie because "he abandoned the left", yet you are supporting the right-wing authoritarian DeSantis because he is "anti woke".
@@JENTHINKSO That doesn’t sound unusual to me. My best friend would have voted for Bernie in 2016, but Clinton won the nomination, so he voted for Trump.
Paul did a great job of talking about how education outcomes for poor vs rich black kids is due to access to quality schools. You can call it class reductionism but if we gave up on the obsession with disparities and actually made it so working class parents have free healthcare, childcare, education for their kids, we wouldn't be talking about any of this - at least not as much.
@M Mollen look it up - diversity industry is making billions. that's bad. those billions don't help black people getting fucked by police. you're accusing me of arguing in comments? while you're arguing in comments? I'm 7 miles tall with the biggest muscles on earth. i live in x city. come at me in real life!! i've been traumatized by police and war and childhood! in the comments! but hey, join a union. join the class struggle.
"People of context" has got to be one of the stupidest utterances by an academic in the past decade, which produced no shortage of candidates jockeying for the distinction
Also, I think the opposition between "black" and "European" in the American context is kinda funny. Not only does it construct Africa and Europe as homogenous cultures, but it also leaves out the fact that whote and black Americans are first and foremost AMERICAN. I think that, although probably not completely meaningless to the current issue, black American "cultural heritage" from Africa 250 years ago and "European culture" especially in WASP families is probably not the most relevant thing here anymore. Racism is everywhere, but American racism is very American. (Also an American black person basically diminishing the differences between them and black people in poor countries in the global south is also very western...) This said, I believe that thr vehemence of the discussion says a lot about the suffering black people have to endure, certainly in schools too
If context is necessary for afro-culture to exist, then it is therefore impossible for afro-culture to have been the progenitor culture. Some other culture must have come first in order for afro-culture to exist, since afro-culture requires an existing context for it to arise from.
A white personal saying “Black people are culturally and/or biologically inadequate when it comes to conceptual abstraction, they struggle at dissecting things and can only engage with complicated ideas within the context of their families and personal lives” would be rightly derided as an unreconstructed racist. It terrifies me that there are Black people internalizing this scientific racism bullshit and thinking that it’s somehow self-affirming.
I'm a Hispanic immigrant, come from Aztec lineage, I have strong beliefs on the importance punctuality, math skills and science, it had nothing to do with white racism, it was instilled in me by my Hispanic grandparents
A lot of it comes from expectations drawn from white colonialism and the standards of the majority. Many minorities didn't have the same kinds of opportunities, but whites did. Therefore these opportunities AND "white traits" were further and greatly expanded upon by this majority, even though it isn't an inherent trait of them.
U don't come from Aztec lineage. I too am chicano (non immigrant) everyone says that shit and there's no truth to it unless ur literally descended from tribal people. Ur more likely descended from mestizos which were mixed with mostly Spanish European (white) and some apache and some Mayan and olmec. Even if you found Aztec genes in you somehow you would find a lot more of the other stuff. Especially spanish european. Maybe even French and Portuguese.
Algebra was created by Africans. Math is the least racist sector of education. As a young black male I excelled in math because no teacher could say I did the problems wrong. In other subjects like history and english, I struggled because white women got to grade the competency of my writing in their own eyes.
This focus on race is tearing the USA apart. The funny thing is even when you point out bad examples, it's reinforcing the focus on race. The real problem happens when real problems come up, people are so overloaded, they don't want to hear it.
You have to lift entire communities out of poverty before you can ever expect a majority of children from those communities to learn at "competitive" levels. Most other efforts amount to rearranging deck chairs when basic needs aren't even close to being covered at a bare minimum...🤷♂️
It’s tough to make this argument in the US because there are such highly successful immigrant groups, from what I’ve seen clearly so even when controlling for class, many Asian immigrant groups for example. This is one of the few areas that i think socialists have a very poor explanation of. It seems pretty simple to me, which is that if you come from a context that’s economically harder, and you perceive your/your family to have more opportunity and most importantly be on an upward trajectory, it incentivizes doing everything possible to seize on that, and be happier with a lower level of material well being than native born citizens who are seeing downward mobility or even flat. So you see poor asian immigrants living more people to a house, spending money on test prep even when they’re barely surviving, and then cultural aspects too where the first kid to get a job out of college etc is expected to financially support the younger siblings and ultimately all will support the parents in old age. How to apply that, if it’s even possible, to Americans at large is unclear to me. But your argument will be shot down by a lot of people across the spectrum for this reason, and there is some narrow element of truth to it, which is that being poor doesn’t preclude academic success.
@@Unclejamsarmy I think the ADOS distinction needs to be understood much more deeply. How did slavery affect modern culture of Black Americans? Similar with Native Americans - their cultures took a major hit with the immigration of Europeans and subsequent industrialization. These people are operating under great historical and ongoing trauma.[Right-wingers tend to have zero patience with this idea.] Other cultures also suffered great trauma, of course, but I think your point of the belief that things are on the upswing is very important.
@@jaykay415 Yes, it’s one of the strange paradoxes of the culture war that because the right wing wants to attribute black suffering to black culture rather than racism that the left denies the pretty obvious reality that of course kidnapping people, intentionally destroying and eliminating their culture as much as possible over generations, to some extent replacing it with culture that would make slavery or subjugation easier, and then legal rights but lots of discrimination, would have MASSIVE effects on culture, inevitably some of them with negative effects. It is a very dangerous thing since it leads itself to right wing victim shaming. I also don’t know to what degree material deprivation influences culture, inevitably some. There’s the separate aspect too that having known Asian families, including in China, the life of those kids seems pretty abysmal. Routinely sleep deprived, endless pressure for perfection in academics and often other pursuits, private tutors or lessons after a very long school day. It’s not something people *should* have to emulate but in our system it works very well. The other paradox being that it’s based on exclusion: only 5% of the populace can be in the top 5%. So having everyone get great SAT scores might change the racial composition of the 5% but the vast majority of every race will be below that regardless.
Not that soft honestly, it's funny how people "fighting" white supremacy are pushing the same negative caricatures of non-whites as those supremacists but calling them positive traits.
Exactly, people like Robin Deangelo are just modern Stanley’s and modern Planned Parenthood people, who believe in so called ‘White Man’s Burden’. Non-Whites somehow have no agency at all. It’s pathetic.
@@oraz. Both sides express it in they're own ways because it's more of a societal construct than a political one. The political side you front may morph or tell how you express ideas such as this, however. ua-cam.com/video/8Oj8zeiwSuk/v-deo.html
Oddly, the bit about "ways of knowing" as "relational" etc sounds like a typical discussion of "feminine ways of knowing," and if so, this seems like it leads to some really suspect claims about race.
It's a means to dismantle anything strong and noble, the idea of an objective reality being an expression of that which is permanent or at least, something we have to be in alignment with for prosperity, and prosperity implies the existence of "heirarchy" (that word has become a bit cringe but it describes it well), is a representation of something which stands above them. Anything strong and free reflects their littleness and servile nature and they cant see any means to defeat these kinds of things, so they have to do away with any kind of reality at all, and bring all things to this base level of confusion..Its an impulse which drives a lot of human behaviour and its not exclisive to the left or the right or politics. But its a disease of the soul in my opinion
People have intuition and there are forces at work that we can’t see and quite understand. Why do you think the federal government uses so much of our tax dollars to let the CIA spend on remote viewing? Because it’s real and it works. Don’t believe the hype. They want the people divided. It keeps them distracted from what they are really doing and the cliche is true, it’s easier to conquer.
@Vesta_the_Lesser it doesnt matter if most arent for it though because ultimately the people pulling the strings around the world are for it and theres nothing we can do about it
saving this one for the books. I'm beginning a PhD program at Chapel Hill this fall and plan on researching the theoretical tensions between idealist/culturalist academia and materialist independent media
@@ravanpee1325 different materialism, Ravan. talking about the philosophical distinction between materialism and idealism, not materialistic in the consumerism sense
I'm a white conservative business owner. I've only watched two of your videos and gathered you are left leaning labor organizers, (maybe I'm wrong), but you are people I want to hear more from. I WANT our society to be better for ALL of us. The ideas people are selling are bad for us all. We need more thought (like yours) and less rhetoric.
This is so exhausting. I can only speak for myself, but I came up in the Baltimore City Public School system and I was hard pressed to graduate (and am the only one of my brothers to do so). The education system is skewed, IQ tests, SAT's, general school life are all stacked against the poor general, add the story of my brother, who was a gifted young actor, but couldn't get the lead part of Peter Pan in elementary school, only because Peter Pan is a white character. This long before the fan-boy outrage of colour-blind casting. Carry that kind of heartbreak to therapy later in life, if you can afford it. My experience was I had to pull double duty of trying to fit in, having a long commute to school, and babysitting my brothers. I had no space to actually learn anything, not that we are taught to think/ask questions for ourselves. Every single sibling and cousin of mine and also much of the next generation all carry the scars of trauma. My mother grew up in 'separate but equal' Maryland, told not to use the front door to businesses or having special days to shop. This trauma, this stress is what I was born into. Western/European Culture is inherently white supremacist, and that needs to be addressed, since the rape of Africa helped to put it on top. Of course, there are nice exeptions to the rule, but not in my family. When I was young I got to hear Ben Carson speak, I became such a fan. Fast forward, and I found out this hero, was also an idiot. An idiot who didn't understand the cultural inequalities weighted against non-white passing folk. Probably a lacking in his education. Maybe the writing of the text in question needs to be a bit more explanatory in a way that people who don't carry all of the cultural baggage that I do can see the intention and understand the issues and use the 'worked for you' education to make a positive change in lives of people who you will never probably meet (at least on equal terms).
First, I am an American who happens to be black, a semi-retired commercial system software developer who has earned a mathematics degree, currently tutoring college mathematics, physics, and software programming. The idea of math being racist is a total fraud; this is really all about current and potential educators, educated primarily in the humanities and social sciences, who believe they have the right to educate our children despite the fact they are innumerate. These educators are attempting to dumb down mathematics to make it easy for themselves, not the students. Case in point: In 2018, 920 teachers were fired because they could not pass the math portion of the Florida Teacher Certification Exam (FTCE). Having obtain a version of the test, I was able to complete it in the allotted time, missing one question for lack of inattention. Look, I have tutored students on the educator track, a number of them vitriolic that they should be required to learn any mathematics. But despite my background, I am pretty evenhanded. I tell my STEM tutees that they must focus on writing as much as on STEM subjects because all of their future work will remain unknown unless they can effectively write about it. And I tell my humanities and social sciences tutees that innumeracy is just as bad as illiteracy.
I like this takeaway. A lot of thinkers have tried to confront professional class "antiracism" but kind of miss the mark and end up being either banal or chauvinistic. This engagement transcends that
Yeah, I try to be as open minded as possible with a lot of this stuff, but some of this is just absurd. I legitimately can’t comprehend how someone can think that much of this is appropriate, unless they have essentialist views of race and ethnicity. I can’t see this as anything but harmful to the left, no matter how well intentioned it may be.. Edit: much like that nice lady in that short video clip describing how “Afro-epistemology”, or however she put it is the explanation for struggling black students… It’s like, what an absurd statement to make about an entire “race”, that comes from multiple peoples, from multiple backgrounds, multiple cultures, and that’s not even getting to the massive genetic diversity of the African continent, which yeah, I think it matters here given the language she’s using and what it implies. It’s just a level of essentialism that is stunningly reactionary to my ears and somehow it’s being sold as progressive. It’s scary.
Why do you assume whites are telling the truth about history? Why do they tell you they invented everything? They can’t build the pyramids yet they claim to be the most advanced. 🤦🏾♂️
If i were a little kid having problems with fractions and a teacher started talking about some irrelevant bullshit like my family's culture, i would probably become very confused and start crying.
If I was the parent of the little kid I'd be pissed because the teacher's first assumption is that my kid struggles with basic math because of their culture or race. It's an absurd and racist assumption itself.
I wish people would have an actual conversation about what is actually meant in using the terms of "perfection" and a "sense of urgency". The training document you referenced clearly defined what they meant by these terms. They're not talking about perfectionism in general or Sense of urgency in general it is contextual and is in reference to a work culture that shows disregard for the work of BIPOC staff or lack of communication from leadership before making changes that disproportionately affect support staff. One thing that is very American is politicizing those things that are common sense and promote human decency. Thank you, for sharing but I really would like to see real conversations that are not highly engulfed in conservatism and liberalism. I guess we are too connect to political rhetoric to have these conversations..
It truly seems that all these social/political issue channels are doing the exact same thing. Making money from clicks by using polarizing ideas, yet rarely offering any value. The value is for them only. The "in depth" is shallow gazing. The polarize and we pay for it, (at least twice)
Agreed. They’re missing context. Exactly. I’ve done org change as an agile coach. “Sense of urgency” is more about hegemonic masculinity because men run the companies. Hegemonic masculinity favors action over reflexivity because reflexivity involves feelings and vulnerability. I most work on teams with men and they don’t slow down to think about things for improvement or impact. Perfectionism is rooted in being neoliberal subjects, driving constantly toward self-optimization. Also, it’s a defense mechanism in competitive environments where real or perceived “imperfection” can be weaponized by colleagues or management. “Fear of open conflict” is really true for the PMC. Plenty of research exists that the White Middle-class is very conflict avoidant. I will 1000% die on this hill. White workers often engage in these convoluted rituals to determine what’s happening when it comes to conflict. Most often it involves triangulation, which is the worse communication form. If you are afraid of open conflict, it diminishes the ability to resolve and take responsibility. Whomever has the power in the situation determines how it be handled. I think it puts marginalized people at a disadvantage and that can bite them later
I’ve worked working class jobs with whites people and PMC jobs with them and I definitely see it as more of a class issue. White working class colleagues and management are more down to earth because they weren’t raised to tie professional and educational social markers to self-worth the same way their PMC counterparts were. Again none of these traits are inherent to “whiteness” but when in the hand of those with power, it takes on a different context and impact
God thank you for this analysis! I was becoming disillusioned with the left because it was becoming really difficult to find people who challenge some of these ideas.
While I respect putting this video out here in the current cultural climate, you're doing a lot of tiptoeing around the idea that much of this stuff is simply nonsense, and at worst, patronizingly racist. Actually, some of the ideas that these programs put forth aren't terrible, but they're basic concepts of educating people as individuals (don't get me wrong, much of it *is* just terrible). We don't need to invoke the specter of "white supremacy" to implement some of the good things these people are suggesting. It merely shows that the concept of white supremacy has completely eroded in the past year. it literally means nothing now except a vague nod to some kind of nebulous cultural hegemony that in reality seems to have nothing at all to do with race, while trying to make it seem like it's entirely about race, and specifically, about the evils of powerful white people in particular. The concept "whiteness" has become both completely divorced from an actual nuanced understanding of race, and at the same time, a central pillar of our understanding of race. It's all getting very confusing and unwieldy. I've perhaps done a poor job of explaining that, but I think maybe that goes to show how much we've accepted a nonsense proposition and let it carry us too far. Y'all also mention a vacuum being made by those on the left who are afraid to call this stuff out. You asked why this is happening. Isn't that, too, an obvious answer? All of this stuff has become taboo, and taking a stance against it labels one as a member of an outgroup. This has been obvious for some time. These people who speak out and get labeled as a member of that outgroup, who don't necessarily identify as Republicans or the like, will find themselves unwelcome on the left, especially among the activist left, and they will find no other political space to move to. They will either become disengaged entirely, bitter, or slide to the right. It's time for more people like you to speak up and slaughter some of these sacred cows.
Okun and Jones, Peggy MacIntosh, and Robin Di Angelo have produced material that is both racist and ridiculous. It is shameful that their ideas are as widespread as they have become. What Jen Pan says about the importance of writing things down for an employee in conflict with management is spot on; I won a couple of administrative legal decisions against employers because I had done this.
There's nothing "new" or "widespread" about Robin Di Angelo's or Tim Wise's perspective. What about Michelle Alexander's book, "The New Jim Crow." The US has the largest penal system in the history of the world. There's a "living-memory" of rabid apartheid, eugenics, peonage, spectacle lynchings, red lining, sun-down towns, sentencing disparities, and education discrimination. Why? The host's obfuscations don't solve problems--they are intended to herd, segment, deflate and contort efforts to rectify long-standing issues created by the icy decision to create a professed meritocracy with the steroids of chattel slavery, and then maintain it for the sake of political, social and economic stability with "Jim Crow." Plutocrats need socially engineered "black/white" tension. Today's curated "topic" is intended to keep the cake's "frosting" from melting.
@@artman2119 Michelle Alexander's book does not resemble Di Angelo's, MacIntosh', or Okun & Jones' writings at all. I don't know why you assume her perspective is the same as theirs.
right- it's my belief if life hands you more adversity- your potential skyrockets if you have a chip on your shoulder. but if you're a victim and buy into the real white supremacists- who don't think you are smart enough to get a voter ID- then you are not going anywhere anytime soon.
@Blaire Sovereign yes- I am in that grey area of sanity where I side with the ppl who are neither right wing extremist white supremacist nor the bigoted far leftists and progressives who are also their own version of covert white supremacists who virtue signal for ppls group limitations but do little to nothing outside of that.
@@GGCandle Are you serious? Some people really have bought into this Right wing BS. Voter ID's, NO Voter Suppression is what it is, disguised in complete and utter BS. For starters consider all of these laws are being made primarily in Right wing states that already require Voter ID's to begin with, and have for decades, long before I was even born. If you take just five minutes to read any of these proposed laws you'd find that not a single one addresses people getting Voter ID's, what they do is limit polling hours, polling stations, and institute fines for registration errors. That is Voter Suppression. I'm not saying all right wing ideas and policies are racist but that is a horrible example to try to prove your point on.
A simple rubric for whether you’re on the wrong track in your thinking is if your position can be boiled down to “______ people just think differently.”
I am politically a social democrat/social liberal, hence a very mild left-winger/centrist in European terms. I am utterly opposed to CRT and anti woke. On this issue, I side with the right. Since people like James Lindsey have spoken out it's a breath of fresh air. This madness needs to stop before it destroys liberal democracy.
Don't be surprised. The American body politic has a left and right hand, that, despite appearances, actually work together. The Right is raw and blunt, the Left is backhanded and sneaky--but they ARE twins. For example, when "progressive" Bernie Sanders ran for president, he did not actively engage the requisite help of Democratic Congressman James E. Clyburn or Stacey Abrams to rally his cause among African-Americans in the South. Did he really expect to win the Democratic Party nomination without the "ADOS/FBA" vote? Nope. Why expend such energy--what's the strategy? The Left, Progressives, Marxists, the fringe Right and all professed camps in between are mightily struggling with the same dreadnought challenge that Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln feared regards this nation's future--the existence of descendants of American chattel slavery in a make-believe meritocracy. The irritated, despite their unquestioned "white" gang power, suspect that the "divine" fulfillment of the American Dream is firmly in the hands of "black" people they wish would disappear. While the Right storms the capitol, the Left's chess strategy is to outflank the room's elephant with a barrage of sophisticated "intersectional" and "post-racial" diversions, including a media blitz showcasing racially ambiguous people. Ethnically diverse proxies herded under the mythical banners of "Asian" and "Latinx" are used "people of color" to undermine remediation and justice efforts for the ADOS/FBA community. "Controlled opposition" knights and pawns sweetly and innocuously center and signal boost harmful propaganda against "blacks." This social media program's content is exhibit A. All this exertion, trouble and pain by the rampaging Ego to keep a wayward "identity" has snow-balling consequences. Alexis de Tocqueville and James Baldwin warned "that a bill is coming due."
You gotta think about what these things mean in the context of dogma. For example, the opposition of the written word. When someone is falsely accused of something and they produce the receipts to show they are innocent, what happens on the left? They start going "Oh, only a guilty person keeps records for so long!" or "Oh as soon as they claim to have the receipts everyone ignores the victim!" they are opposed to the written word because they don't like when record keeping contradicts lies. They want to just be able to set the narrative, and be unquestioned in so doing.
I like what Paul said about leaving your rights at the door when you step into work. The big tech firms are now developing woke rules as another axe held over the worker's heads. My previous experience as a union member made that fact abundantly clear.
I know I speak for all poor and middle class whites when I say it’s been a total hoot contributing to white supremacy by struggling to provide for my family.
I haven't been able to say this often about Jacobin videos, but this was an excellent discussion. The examples were spot on. It seems Jen was the lead on developing the presentation content and Paul was providing reaction and analysis, but this discussion was very good. Jen should let Paul speak more, but Paul also needs to get in and use his voice!
My question is why does there have to be a competition between "the right" and "the left"...politics change throughout history. I vote for whoever I agree with their views and policies...not because I want to keep things right or left. I used to vote democrat, now I can't trust democrat politicians. Things change.
I agree with Jen and Paul that this is on the one hand a way of implying that black and brown people are "not cut out" for doing math and science. But I was surprised that the other aspect of the question wasn't discussed. If you bracketed the race aspect, what one of the speakers was saying (~19:00) about different epistemologies or ways of knowing seemed so on point. But then why did she have to go and make it about race or make it a race-essentialist issue? It is absolutely *true* that our culture and curricula devalue contextual, holistic kinds of knowledge in favor of isolated, hyper-analyzed, reductionist forms of knowledge of particular facts and procedures. This is a bad thing, for all of us! If WEB DuBois was great, it was because he could bring *both* the analytical skills *and* a broad, contextual understanding.
Thank you for making this video. This paper made the rounds like crazy when I was a nonprofit CEO in Grand Rapids, MI and nobody had the courage to criticize it publicly for fear of being called a proponent of white supremacy. Your analysis is excellent and spot on. Nonprofits, universities, and advocates against racism need to trash this document as quickly as possible.
Shout out Paul. This mans probably one of those high school teachers that really changed the way you think and look at the world. Man could have been another arm chair academic, but he's really out in the field.
Moderate Conservative here. I have a few Marxist and Socialist friends. They are inordinately smarter and more thoughtful than the Woke crowd and I have a lot of respect for them. They object to the poststructuralist revolution happening and want to bring it back to first principles with respect to politics. I can very much appreciate Jacobin even as someone very skeptical with Marxist practice
Ah, JC! It's great to be reminded of someone whose writing you've enjoyed sometime in the past, but haven't kept up with. I don't see a twitter handle for them? Anyhoo. Time to resubscribe to Jacobin.
As someone who went to school in Jamaica until I was 18, I call bullshit on this whole nonsense. They need to start putting a caning on some unruly backsides to straighten these kids out. 1. Pay attention in class 2. Obey the teachers. 3. Do your homework 4. Success 5. Meh dun
That's something I criticize as a leftist. Critical theory raised many questions on epistemological issues, but when there is no boundary of inter-subjectivity, you arrive with such non sense of African mathematics or Chinese physics. There are still universals and we, as left, need to focus on objectivity as well. We need to question philosophically where the boundaries between objectivity and subjectivity lie. Of course, there is non sense from pure objectivity who pretend to naturalize their ideology that's why we access first with history and system theory to address issues in our society. Balance and balance is needed.
There was a try in the 1930s to implement a "German physics", because the leading physics in the country like Einstein were often Jews and the Nazis hated the so called "Jewish physic. Totally bullshit, but he same priciple reoccurs today in the US
“What Jacobin Gets Wrong about Antiracism.” Really enjoyed reading it this morning. The author summed up a lot of my concerns about these anti-antiracist videos from Jacobin.
That list is rather, I dunno, just a few characteristics lumped together and could be about anyone or group. Wasn't the guy, a colonialist, who started the Boy Scouts, and some items on the list of 'A scout is trustworthy, loyal, friendly, etc, what can be attributed to any human whatever the gender, yet he was called out for it. Like arrogance looks good on no one male or female or anyone in between.
I’m a conservative, and I have a great deal of respect for your opinions even though some of them I disagree with. If you and I were in government, I could compromise and work with you for the greater good. Whereas most of left, I talked to simply repeat slogans and when confronted with simple questions are completely confused. For example, I ask A woke supporter“ you’re for woke, but can you answer the question, “what is woke?” They usually answer from a classical liberalism point of view, instead of a critical theories point of you.
i see people often get offended at class reductionism, while seeming to partake in class reductionism. Teachers can be racist too, education is a racial issue as well. not really the most important issue to answer to disingenuous rhetoric, i'd argue racism is more pressing.
Thank you both for this discussion. This is the kind of stuff I used to think only a conservative satirist could come up with. Unfortunately it's real. And manages to be patronizing and insulting to people of all races simultaneoudly. As Paul notes, this is not the same as avoiding class/cultural/racial bias in the wording of problems on standardized tests. It seems like those who get degrees in Education or Pedagogy have uncritically absorbed a bunch of dogma that would be challenged if they only took the time to study the actual disciplines the teaching of which they fancy themselves qualified to expound upon.
If that woman is right about black people and white people having such big differences in the way their brain processes things, then isn’t it unfair to the white children to be taught in a manner that isn’t good for them but good for black children? Is she promoting school segregation by race? Or is what is good for white children unimportant? It’s absurd that people are going around advancing the propaganda of white supremacy in the name of fairness to black people.
This may be sloppily written, but I don’t disagree with a fair amount of the points being made. The problem is it doesn’t seem to specify PMC as the specific supremacy culture. These traits they prescribe to white supremacy culture are heavily apparent to me living as an implant in an affluent suburb, with a spouse who works in the pinnacle of PMC environment. I think if you’re part of the academia-to-pmc pipeline (which you appear to be, Jen) you have a hard time understanding these kinds of analysis . You’re inside the fishbowl. None of these are suggesting other races, cultures and classes can’t exhibit any of these traits. You’re breaking this into further granular minutiae; this isn’t implying illiteracy or ignorance in other cultures, it’s explaining how since white peoples have been running the show now for so long, heavily warping and influencing cultures all across the planet with white individualistic capitalistic western-ness as the pinnacle ideal, deciding that the English language, along with white created academia, science, data, church, workplace, justice systems, art, housing systems, dress, appearance, etc etc.. are all creating systems that foundationally make, and keep, others lesser.
Well said - you took the thoughts right out of my mind and put them into words lol. I think you've analyzed this video very succinctly and accurately. It always feels as though whenever the topic of race and white supremacy comes up, there's always detractors ready to downplay its effects, show it's not real, or say that acknowledging/tackling it in any way is somehow racist or not as important as other issues. They never seem to get just how much of a pervasive and structural issue it is globally (not just in white-majority countries) and how it goes hand-in-hand with globalized capitalist economies that exploit the global south (most of whom, unsurprisingly, tend to be majority non-white nation-states). It is both inside and outside of us all and is insiduous in its nature, creeping through even in supposedly innocent terms such as being 'professional' or 'intelligent'. Thanks for taking the time to write this and acknowledging not only what they're doing in this video, but its deficient critique of a document that tries to break down what "white individualistic capitalistic western-ness as the pinnacle ideal" (as you put it) truly means in a practical sense. I want to recommend FD Signfier's videos on "the faces of black conservatism" to anyone who wants to begin understanding the relationship between systemic racism, class and culture in an American context (which can certainly be applied to some other nations as well).
Saying that objectivity is a characteristic of white supremacy makes as much sense as saying happiness is a characteristic of white supremacy or love of family is a characteristic of white supremacy.
She takes like seven minutes to ask him a question, and then all of her questions are basically like "this thing sucks, right?" For minutes at a time, she's like "my thoughts, some facts, my thoughts, my thoughts, my thoughts, some facts, some facts, [shows him a clip that clearly he will disagree with] what's YOUR take on this?" And he's like "oh yeah, that sucks." I mean, what else can he say? She's thrown him into a conversational cul-de-sac. And sometimes he figures out a way to pivot slightly, bringing up something cool like "can you imagine what W.E.B. DuBois would say about this?" That would have been fun to talk about. But despite nodding and nodding while he talks, when he 's done, she completely drops that thread and starts talking about whatever she was going to talk about anyway. And sure, she has a lot of insights and brings up some interesting points of her own. But I still come away feeling cheated. I mean, why have a guest if you're going to spend 75% of the Q&A talking AT him?
oops... I thought this guy was a guest. This whole thing makes a lot more sense if they are frequent co-hosts and if this was cut from a longer podcast or whatever. I still think she should have given her buddy there some more breathing room to talk about this stuff, but who knows, maybe this was a 5 hour podcast and he dominated the first half of it, so this is her turn to monopolize things.
Education should NOT be tied to people's lives and experience, or at least it certainly shouldn't have to be. Education doesn't exist to tell you what you already know or what you're comfortable with.
Whiteness is not dependent on the pigmentation of one's skin. Oral culture and storytelling are still a part of Black culture. If you can't learn about your own history in textbooks, you need to listen to your elders. Both of you are displaying some intense progressive whiteness, imo.
I can see the 'white supremacy culture' graphic applying to WASP culture, in quite an uncontroversial way. But taking away the qualifiers of religion and class, and just leaving it at race, does seem off.
Yup. I agree. The Protestant work ethic can be seen by many Boomers I would hear in 2020 saying "they just need to get back to work" then referring to Leftist, youthful protesters.
@@aaronmoore1171 I read the text as being about race or, more specifically, about the culture of the dominant race vs the culture of oppressed races. I think if she wanted to theorize about something other than race, she could have framed it as Capitalist Culture or WASP culture or mainstream American culture but she chose to call it White Supremacy Culture which I interpret to mean that she believes that white people have a culture that they require non-white people, who have a different culture, to assimilate to. The traits she ascribes to whiteness I don't see being any more prevalent among whites than any other racial group and so it makes no sense to me to call it White Supremacy Culture. To say that whites are, for example, more punctual or hard-working or logical strikes me as blantantly racist. And if that's not what she's saying, then why does she call it White Supremacy Culture?
I don't understand the what the point of this video is. Why would you have a guest on your show not to try and understand something, but just to agree with an already fully formed and thoroughly entrenched position against something? When I read this piece a while back, I didn't take it as trying to focus on race as the thing. The piece was about power, and how power can be exercised for various ends through even these everyday, things. Food for thought to consider where and in which ways these things are used as oppressive class/racial tools in order to not be taken by them as innocuous just because they are ubiquitous. Like they were talking about Wall Street and MBA culture, right?
It's the host's (and channel's) intention, Not to Understand, but to frame and push a Post-Racial narrative that ultimately still serves plutocrats who use the mechanism of so-called "white" supremacy to keep serfs and subjects of all hues in check and at each other's throats. Tragically, and all to often, this conjuring requires the ingredients of anti-black racism--the bogeyman. Here, the underlying agenda is to Sanitize, Distort and Erase the African-American (ADOS) experience in this country to usher in a Brazilian-style color caste system, which is a hopeless pigmentocracy. This is the prayer of many post-1965 immigrants and the goal of plutocrats as a calibrated refinement of WS to remain in Power. Concurrent with these efforts, is the blitze across media platforms to "creolize" relationships and people. Hence, the worldwind presentation of racially ambiguous people in ads, movies and print media; and the use of the terms and labels, like "intersectionality," "people of color" and "Latinx." All this energy is frantically expended to "disappear" America's original sins and debts. People are too funny.
@@eemoogee160 the algorithm. we need to reset our dialogue and policy around reality. rational and caring people across the political spectrum understand this. there is a lot at stake. good to hear pushback from "the left" on this absurd, regressive and racist intersectional nonsense. it fails everyone - especially those of lower classes - and if not addressed, it will inevitably lead to a reactionary pushback from dark and dim radicals of another stripe.
I live on the NH/VT border, Bernie Country, and I can confirm the worst fear a progressive white has is to be called a racist. This fear predates the now vogue cry that all white people are, out of the womb, racist. That said, the earlier charge still holds true, which is understandable, few would want to be labeled a racist. This fear, however, is a powerful tool to manipulate and is used to control thought and behavior by the political and social Left, writ large. Unfortunately, progressive whites have been conditioned in a way that the necessary courage required in this moment is equated with racism. That is, to challenge CRT is to be a racist. And, with that being the status quo, the burden of mobilizing and confronting the absurdities and regressive tenets within CRT begins with progressive people of color until a critical mass is achieved. Critiques and challenges from the Right will be blindly dismissed in bad faith. This monster is a creation of the Left and only the Left has the authority to deal with it.
"Math is taught in a linear fashion, and skills are taught sequentially, *without consideration of prerequisite knowledge.*" This is a contradiction. Then the woman in the video clip says that context is needed in math. So is teaching context and prerequisite knowledge racist or not? The truth is math is hard for everyone, white people included, but white kids are more likely to have stable homes and communities that give them a better chance to succeed. The stuff about using students' cultural traditions to teach math is just unnecessary and impractical, besides having nothing to do with math.
My favorite part of any of these discourses circuses regarding alleged racism in academics is that White Americans aren't even the one's benefiting the most from the societal factors that allow them to be more successful, it's Asian Americans. That should be the most clean cut answer for anyone wondering why some demographics of children are doing worse in school than others. But no, it's easier to infantilize ourselves and say that it is the factor we can not change in society, i.e. someone's race, that is causing all the problems. I wonder why this is, it couldn't possibly be to ensure middle class Americans empower themselves with the knowledge that creating stable and functional families is the best chance any of us has at helping the next generation.
That text does not say power hoarding did not nor does not exist in other cultures. That is a logical fallacy by this person. Any other comments like that is also a logical fallacy.
The text is not academic and it is from 2001 so it is very outdated. No one would reference a though-experiment from that went nowhere though academic citations.
The problem, as with CRT and Black Feminist inquiry - is the deep misreading, misunderstanding and/or intentional misrepresentation of the work. Much of the critique in this video of the work is what one of the authors, Tema Okun, has set out to clarify. She has stated that her work has been weaponized by folks to justify positions she never intended - and that is done by misreading or misunderstanding her meaning and definitions of the characteristics. I think this work is a solid and useful text to analyze our workplaces - presuming that we aren't weaponizing, misreading or misrepresenting the material. All that said, I support people to have their own ideas and beliefs - including the belief that this work is not valuable to you. I think my only challenge is when our beliefs in opposition to something is really an opposition to what we think it is, but not really opposing that actual thing itself.
"rationality and logic are white supremacist concepts" Great let's just all share how we feel about an issue and then see who has the bigger gun.. seems like a great way of figuring out who's right..
@@davidsheriff9274 If we abandon rationality and logic as our means to solve disputes what are we left with? Traditionally it's violence. I'm not sure what the people who suggest logic is white supremacy see as a viable alternative..
@@SaudiHaramco of course,the whole thing is so racist it could have been written by David Duke. So if logic, reason, empiricism and the scientific method are racist because they come out of the enlightenment, which came from white Europeans,then what does that leave for black people, voodoo black magic and irrationality?
Please, Paul!!! I volunteered for three years at an inner-city preschool which was funded solely on grants and donations. Please stop blaming schools and leaving out the kids’ home lives. No amount of good, well-funded education can fix that, and to deny that is disingenuous. Please at least acknowledge that middle-class black kids just might be doing better because of far better home lives.
You have to give the Democrat Plantation Owners a great deal of credit here... The ability to adapt your tactics over long periods of great cultural change, and still maintain your core principals as well as your dominance over the culture that you are enslaving... all that while having a large portion of the population that professes to be about equality, advocate for your openly racist agenda as though it was virtuous... It's really quite something to behold.
There was a story about a logic test in a pedagogy class that I took where this culture in Africa was given a logic test and they all consistently got the wrong answer according to the answer key but when asked about why they answered the way they did it did make sense in the context or their language and understanding etc. ... So tests are flawed and culturally biased but that may have nothing to do with white or European culture or it might... in that case you could say that there is a history of colonialism or European bias. I think that that’s ok and it makes sense. But the more important thing to consider is why their answers make sense in their cultural context. Not so much the fixation on the white supremacy idea. At the same time there is white and Christian and European supremacy or centrism. That exists. Indigenous cultures have a ton to offer in regard to our assumptions about product and industrial designs. And much of the design of money, industry etc is biased or based in European history and their assumptions about the world. The scarcity and overpopulation assumption for example, which brings to mind economic neoliberalism in general... also the assumption that we live in a “fallen world” in the Christian culture rather than in or in balance with the divine natural world.... then there’s the alway diminishing returns of design assumption, and the nihilism is the same as skepticism culture that exists in western sciences along with ideological views of scientific established rules and laws which has prevented us from understanding observations and phenomena which exist but which cannot exists according to preestablished interpretations of the laws of thermodynamics etc... another assumption that plagues western society or what is called western society is the idea that the popular vote enables a representative democracy, when in fact the popular vote inevitably creates a oligarchical society because it is a minority consensus vote. Where as indigenous populations might say that there is abundance where we have said there is scarcity and that overpopulation is based on the design of the systems of civilization that we use.... But obviously it makes no sense to say one culture is better than another even if you could parse that out in some data driven way there is no point to doing that because culture is so fluid anyways and much of what we call European or white culture is borrowed from other cultures originally- including our number system and the scientific method which was taken from Indian and Arabic cultures who probably borrowed it from an even older culture that we don’t know about.
The biggest underlying problem I see with that document is the racial essentialism. Which is racist. Also racist is the complete collapsing of the dizzying diversity of cultures around the world under this term “POC.” You are talking about billions of people around the world who don’t even see eye to eye on things WITHIN whatever cultures they’re a part of (left vs right anyone?), let alone with everyone else who isn’t “white.” It generalizes all non-white people as having some sort of shared set of values that are different than white values. It’s literally just racist af. But it calls itself anti-racist. It’s amazing.
@@allamericanpatriot1007 There are a ton of lies from every direction and hatred between people who wouldn’t ordinarily hate each other. I’m not okay with any of it. I’m not fine with generalizing people either, as it lacks nuance and accuracy about the individual. As of late, I have been having to battle the ultra woke off my back. They are calling me a white suprematist (only 3 people to be accurate, out of the plethora of people I know, actually). I’ve been separating myself as for old school liberal democratic principles. Not illiberal authoritarian ones, even when they appear in my own party. I’m considering even going independent until people start telling the truth about everything, and the news stops intentionally dividing people. Divide and conquer has been used since early days to distract people from the real enemies. We, as Americans should not be enemies.
@@allamericanpatriot1007 PS: my favorite comedians are Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle and George Carlin. And I love the bands Sublime, Tool and System Of The Down, to name a few. I hate PC, am individual and artistic, kind and open, and non politically religious. So I don’t know where your getting your views from. Peace.
I agree 100% with what you guys are saying but was it necessary for you to put Jen sneering at some random forlorn looking black kid in the thumbnail? This shit is almost Groyper level baiting.
the idea that white people are perfectionists while black people are not is racist. its a statement that would not sound out of place in the type of drivel that Richard Spencer comes out with. At least a dozen of my bosses have been black, including three foremen from the same gardening company i work at. All of them demanded the same high standards from me that my white foremen demanded. This document is a slap in the face to all black people I've ever worked with.
I'm a mathematician and math professor who read through that entire document. My honest takeaway is this. About 1/3 of it is pretty uncontroversial stuff, about 1/3 of it is highly questionable "math reform" stuff dressed up in new clothes, and the last 1/3 of it is complete and utter bullshit.
How about you stay in your lane. I don't go to an engineer to get a heart transplant. Typical of a mathematician desperate to throw their degree around.
@@hoboryan3455 It's a document proposing to completely upend how my job duties are performed, and I'm "out of my lane"? Ok.
@@voteforno.6155 Bc your math degree has nothing to do with this paper. The fact that you are making this comparison makes me think you aren't a math prof; you are a math teacher. If you had a degree, you would understand that academic fields don't bleed into others. You aren't a sociologist, don't act like you are.
@@hoboryan3455 The paper ("A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction") is not just a descriptive work of research. It is prescriptive and makes many concrete proposals on how math should be taught. Many of the recommendations are reasonable and would improve instruction. But many of the recommendations would be disastrous in the classroom.
For example, they advocate the immediate introduction of very complicated, complex examples of a math topic before considering simpler examples. This is a terrible idea. Every good math teacher knows that the first examples you give should be the simplest ones, clearly illustrating the essence of the concept without unnecessary complications or distractions. This is true from grade school arithmetic all the way to graduate level seminars. To be concrete, you don't include fractions or decimals in your first examples of solving linear equations. You don't start with the most complicated, messy functions after defining the derivative. You don't start talking about group actions and stabilizers to students who just learned what a subgroup is.
As a particularly insulting example, they claim that a focus on "getting the right answer" is an example of white supremacy culture. First of all, while it is possible to give open-ended questions from time to time, or questions with multiple answers, in math 99% of the time, there are definitely right and wrong answers, and we should focus on whether students' answers are actually correct. The idea that correctness, logical coherence, and precise thinking are uniquely associated to whiteness strikes me as racist. I teach at a community college where about 80% of the students are students of color, and they certainly don't view being correct and precise in their work as somehow inconsistent with their identity.
There are a lot of things that can be done to close equity gaps. The most effective programs are those that provide social and cultural support for underrepresented students, integrating them into a network of other students, professors, and mentors who can guide their path and help them when they stumble. That work is difficult and takes practice and diligence. It's also far less sexy than publishing 100-page documents full of the latest buzzwords.
@@voteforno.6155"You don't start talking about group actions and stabilizers to students who just learned what a subgroup is." Maybe you are wrong. Maybe these teachers found a better way that does that route. Again, you are a lowly mathematician; you know nothing of practical and purely live in theoretical. If you were a practical mathematician, you'd call yourself an engineer. And teaching is in another level of practicality beyond that. Stay in your lane.
"For example, they advocate the immediate introduction of very complicated, complex examples of a math topic before considering simpler examples" How crappy. you definitely aren't an english teacher bc that isn't an good example. That is a description;; an example you have specifics xD Can you give me an actual example to work with?
"in math 99% of the time, there are definitely right and wrong answers" Yeah see, this is why you are either not a prof or a bad teacher. I can't count the number of times in university math I got the wrong answer, but still got 7/8 on the question bc my reasoning, process and logic was sound; I just make a small mistake in calculating the final number. This is just a wrong statement. Are you even a teacher at all?
I suggest you let the teaching and the sociology to the teachers and the sociologists.
The idea that objectivity is racist and should be done away with is deeply dangerous.
Everything is subjective and also dominated by white rich straight males
@@lawrencesneed7567 the designation of "white rich straight male" is open to interpretation then?
I think there is a misunderstanding of what people are calling for. The ask is actually to change what we understand to be objective. Ignoring emotional elements or trauma or assuming a researcher who is not part of the community being researched is inately impartial, that's all logical fallacies, when you consider logic and objectivity from a holistic perspective.
@@saladtnogs that's also my point lol though you'd never change that even if you could so I don't get your point
Googling "objectivity is racist" is dangerous in a Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror sort of way.
_The Oregon Department of Education (ODE) recently encouraged teachers to register for training that encourages “ethnomathematics” and argues, among other things, that White supremacy manifests itself in the focus on finding the right answer._
It's funny because as a so-called "creative-thinker," my way of doing math almost never matched what the teacher did. So I spent much of my youth in trouble for arguing _the _*_only thing that matters_*_ is if my answers are right. And if my method works, leave me alone._
People pushing this sort of stuff are so vile it's impossible to properly articulate.
Wow, what a surprise that this kind of incoherence makes the bourgeoisie a lot more comfortable than historical materialism!
Liberal Democracy will forever granularize identities to preclude a conglomerated class consciousness
How is this not historical materialism? A savvy operator should be able to switch between race/class in popular discourse with some facility by now. Speaking of one does not preclude the existence of the other.
@@aaronmoore1171 watch it again. Jen is referring to a particular sloppy piece of work called "characteristics of white supremacy culture" that gets circulated uncritically far and wide.
@@rgzhaffie The piece is a list of bullet points basically. It's true that the author doesn't spell out and make explicit the historical material conditions that lead to it in this list of bullet points. Not sure how that makes it sloppy though. It's not an essay. The work thus falls upon the reader to determine the historical narrative should that be their main aim and perhaps the inability to provide such context is sloppy, though to claim this textual structure needs that is an over reach.
Everyone liking this comment probably likes masculinity studies and thinks institutional feminism is left. Be honest.
You guys are miracle workers for pushing back on this from an informed left perspective! Thank you.
@Albert Gront I'm not. I still agree completely. Does that matter?
@@logicNreason2008 I'm also a colored, non-white person that agrees
You realize that all human beings have “color” right? I think you mean that you are a non European person.
This woke stuff came from the left, only the left can get rid of it.
You spoke a lot about freedom at the end of this episode. I’d like to point out that freedom is not a one way street. Freedom means responsibility. One doesn’t work without the other. But as Thomas Sowell (arguably the most influential intellectual of our time) said, freedom means inequality. If you really think about it, he has a point.
Regarding your point on “workplace freedoms”, the WOKE and cancel culture of today have turned ordinary workplaces into dictatorial hubs, it’s not the right that did that. They have turned into places where ordinary people are being censored and not allowed to state their own opinions in fear of loosing their jobs. These things can be viewed both ways. Depending on how you look at it. Everything can be pushed too far. Balance is where we want to be.
I'm more comfortable flying in planes designed by engineers who are perfectionists in math.
Whoever wrote this document has never met african or Asian parents. I told my Dad I got a 98% on a test and he was disappointed about the 2% 😂
So, not Boeing? :P
As a high school guidance counselor, I always like it when Jacobin tackles topics in education from a Left perspective, the videos & articles have actually helped me push back against the lib hegemony that dominates my field
These truncated video clips are glimpses of self-analysis toward well-being and agency, not a rejection of Twain, Newton, Mozart or Einstein. This rapport is best considered by "The Philosophical Aspects of Cultural Differences," by Dr. Edwin Nichols.
However, what is framed and curated on this blog episode, is best summed up by Dr. Ben Carson. "...They (liberals) put you (blacks) in a little category, a little box, you have to think this way. How could you dare come off the plantation?"
"Liberal" New York State only grudgingly stopped chattel slavery, July 4, 1827, and inmate-based prison gerrymandering in 2010. Morality? No! The state's economy and delicate social order could still implode without an engineered school-to-prison pipeline of human "fodder" and related government make-work "jobs."
The "poverty industry" -- which includes many championing "class" rights---is filled with "liberals" who have vested interests in the status quo of ascendant and deprecating aspects of Eurocentrism and Anglo-Teutonic hegemony. This "system's" seemingly holiest intentions and activities can't function without anti-black racism.
A "steel man" critique that intends to solve these problems needs the opponent's perspective. Here, put school funding, special education, property taxes, red lining, busing, "tracking" and Texan education books on the table...then do the social math.
Before you can deal with an epidemic, you have to learn the details of how the responsible disease works.
Can you pm me? I have questions about your line of work.
Here's some culturally important math: The farther that we, the left, get from common sense, the greater the loss of critical mass in our movement, and hence, the less likely we are to get anything done.
I can absolutely envision how Rome (and other similar entities) went insane and fell to empire with this kind of thinking. This kind of stuff does nothing short of pushing people into the arms of opportunistic actual fascists.
1,000% agree, former bernie support (until he abandoned the left in 2016) fan of Kyle kulinski and breaking points. But I will vote for the anti woke candidate in 2024. Probably going to DeSantis. The democrats are going to push a woke monster in my opinion. Wonder if it will be Kamala v.s. DeSantis? She will get crushed
@@mrfuninthesun33 You say you stopped supporting Bernie because "he abandoned the left", yet you are supporting the right-wing authoritarian DeSantis because he is "anti woke".
@@mrfuninthesun33 You sound incredibly confused. Do you have any actual political principles?
@@JENTHINKSO That doesn’t sound unusual to me. My best friend would have voted for Bernie in 2016, but Clinton won the nomination, so he voted for Trump.
Paul did a great job of talking about how education outcomes for poor vs rich black kids is due to access to quality schools. You can call it class reductionism but if we gave up on the obsession with disparities and actually made it so working class parents have free healthcare, childcare, education for their kids, we wouldn't be talking about any of this - at least not as much.
@M Mollen why is it that capitalism is fine with a billions dollar industry focusing on endless, circular discussions about white supremacy?
@M Mollen it's billions. so your trauma = your politics = i need to agree with you about a policy? super confused.
@M Mollen look it up - diversity industry is making billions. that's bad. those billions don't help black people getting fucked by police. you're accusing me of arguing in comments? while you're arguing in comments? I'm 7 miles tall with the biggest muscles on earth. i live in x city. come at me in real life!! i've been traumatized by police and war and childhood! in the comments!
but hey, join a union. join the class struggle.
@M Mollen Dude, you had a good point and then messed it up by getting aggressive and threatening.
@M Mollen That's okay - it didn't get too crazy.
Everyone's allowed to blow off some steam.
"People of context" has got to be one of the stupidest utterances by an academic in the past decade, which produced no shortage of candidates jockeying for the distinction
Also, I think the opposition between "black" and "European" in the American context is kinda funny. Not only does it construct Africa and Europe as homogenous cultures, but it also leaves out the fact that whote and black Americans are first and foremost AMERICAN. I think that, although probably not completely meaningless to the current issue, black American "cultural heritage" from Africa 250 years ago and "European culture" especially in WASP families is probably not the most relevant thing here anymore. Racism is everywhere, but American racism is very American. (Also an American black person basically diminishing the differences between them and black people in poor countries in the global south is also very western...) This said, I believe that thr vehemence of the discussion says a lot about the suffering black people have to endure, certainly in schools too
If context is necessary for afro-culture to exist, then it is therefore impossible for afro-culture to have been the progenitor culture. Some other culture must have come first in order for afro-culture to exist, since afro-culture requires an existing context for it to arise from.
"People of Context" reminds me of "Basketball Americans" in its condescension and covert racism.
A white personal saying “Black people are culturally and/or biologically inadequate when it comes to conceptual abstraction, they struggle at dissecting things and can only engage with complicated ideas within the context of their families and personal lives” would be rightly derided as an unreconstructed racist. It terrifies me that there are Black people internalizing this scientific racism bullshit and thinking that it’s somehow self-affirming.
I'm a Hispanic immigrant, come from Aztec lineage, I have strong beliefs on the importance punctuality, math skills and science, it had nothing to do with white racism, it was instilled in me by my Hispanic grandparents
A lot of it comes from expectations drawn from white colonialism and the standards of the majority. Many minorities didn't have the same kinds of opportunities, but whites did. Therefore these opportunities AND "white traits" were further and greatly expanded upon by this majority, even though it isn't an inherent trait of them.
@@Chronorust so?
U don't come from Aztec lineage. I too am chicano (non immigrant) everyone says that shit and there's no truth to it unless ur literally descended from tribal people.
Ur more likely descended from mestizos which were mixed with mostly Spanish European (white) and some apache and some Mayan and olmec.
Even if you found Aztec genes in you somehow you would find a lot more of the other stuff. Especially spanish european. Maybe even French and Portuguese.
Also u can't say ur Hispanic AND of Aztec lineage. Hispanic literally means you come from Spanish heritage. Dope.
@@juanmccoy3066Hispanic refers more to language. Most Mexicans are a mix between native and Spanish.
This is just divide and conquer in an academic context.
Algebra was created by Africans. Math is the least racist sector of education. As a young black male I excelled in math because no teacher could say I did the problems wrong. In other subjects like history and english, I struggled because white women got to grade the competency of my writing in their own eyes.
This focus on race is tearing the USA apart. The funny thing is even when you point out bad examples, it's reinforcing the focus on race. The real problem happens when real problems come up, people are so overloaded, they don't want to hear it.
USA has always been focused on race? Immigration Quotas, Jim Crow Etc. It has been built into the fabric a longgg time ago.
You have to lift entire communities out of poverty before you can ever expect a majority of children from those communities to learn at "competitive" levels.
Most other efforts amount to rearranging deck chairs when basic needs aren't even close to being covered at a bare minimum...🤷♂️
They want us to talk about anything but class.
@@coldcoffee1506 and having white, wealthy HR professionals define what is racism in the workplace is a bit much.
It’s tough to make this argument in the US because there are such highly successful immigrant groups, from what I’ve seen clearly so even when controlling for class, many Asian immigrant groups for example. This is one of the few areas that i think socialists have a very poor explanation of. It seems pretty simple to me, which is that if you come from a context that’s economically harder, and you perceive your/your family to have more opportunity and most importantly be on an upward trajectory, it incentivizes doing everything possible to seize on that, and be happier with a lower level of material well being than native born citizens who are seeing downward mobility or even flat. So you see poor asian immigrants living more people to a house, spending money on test prep even when they’re barely surviving, and then cultural aspects too where the first kid to get a job out of college etc is expected to financially support the younger siblings and ultimately all will support the parents in old age.
How to apply that, if it’s even possible, to Americans at large is unclear to me. But your argument will be shot down by a lot of people across the spectrum for this reason, and there is some narrow element of truth to it, which is that being poor doesn’t preclude academic success.
@@Unclejamsarmy I think the ADOS distinction needs to be understood much more deeply. How did slavery affect modern culture of Black Americans? Similar with Native Americans - their cultures took a major hit with the immigration of Europeans and subsequent industrialization. These people are operating under great historical and ongoing trauma.[Right-wingers tend to have zero patience with this idea.] Other cultures also suffered great trauma, of course, but I think your point of the belief that things are on the upswing is very important.
@@jaykay415 Yes, it’s one of the strange paradoxes of the culture war that because the right wing wants to attribute black suffering to black culture rather than racism that the left denies the pretty obvious reality that of course kidnapping people, intentionally destroying and eliminating their culture as much as possible over generations, to some extent replacing it with culture that would make slavery or subjugation easier, and then legal rights but lots of discrimination, would have MASSIVE effects on culture, inevitably some of them with negative effects. It is a very dangerous thing since it leads itself to right wing victim shaming. I also don’t know to what degree material deprivation influences culture, inevitably some.
There’s the separate aspect too that having known Asian families, including in China, the life of those kids seems pretty abysmal. Routinely sleep deprived, endless pressure for perfection in academics and often other pursuits, private tutors or lessons after a very long school day. It’s not something people *should* have to emulate but in our system it works very well. The other paradox being that it’s based on exclusion: only 5% of the populace can be in the top 5%. So having everyone get great SAT scores might change the racial composition of the 5% but the vast majority of every race will be below that regardless.
Wow, that sounds really racist, tbh. It's the soft racism of low expectations.
Not that soft honestly, it's funny how people "fighting" white supremacy are pushing the same negative caricatures of non-whites as those supremacists but calling them positive traits.
Exactly, people like Robin Deangelo are just modern Stanley’s and modern Planned Parenthood people, who believe in so called ‘White Man’s Burden’. Non-Whites somehow have no agency at all. It’s pathetic.
18:31 the woman’s speech essentializes black people the exact same way sexist gender norms essentialize men and women into their modes of thinking.
I thought people on the left love toxic masculinity rhetoric and institutional feminism. No?
Or maybe, as a Black person, she is simply speaking to something about the Black cultural experience that you don't understand.
@@acobster As understood by another white person. Anyway isn't speaking for others experiences the main occupation of the feminist left?
@@oraz.
Both sides express it in they're own ways because it's more of a societal construct than a political one. The political side you front may morph or tell how you express ideas such as this, however.
ua-cam.com/video/8Oj8zeiwSuk/v-deo.html
@@oraz. It's an occupation for basically every political side.
Thank you so much for doing this. And yes, the left needs to step up and critique this belief system fully and forcibly.
Oddly, the bit about "ways of knowing" as "relational" etc sounds like a typical discussion of "feminine ways of knowing," and if so, this seems like it leads to some really suspect claims about race.
It's a means to dismantle anything strong and noble, the idea of an objective reality being an expression of that which is permanent or at least, something we have to be in alignment with for prosperity, and prosperity implies the existence of "heirarchy" (that word has become a bit cringe but it describes it well), is a representation of something which stands above them. Anything strong and free reflects their littleness and servile nature and they cant see any means to defeat these kinds of things, so they have to do away with any kind of reality at all, and bring all things to this base level of confusion..Its an impulse which drives a lot of human behaviour and its not exclisive to the left or the right or politics. But its a disease of the soul in my opinion
People have intuition and there are forces at work that we can’t see and quite understand. Why do you think the federal government uses so much of our tax dollars to let the CIA spend on remote viewing? Because it’s real and it works. Don’t believe the hype. They want the people divided. It keeps them distracted from what they are really doing and the cliche is true, it’s easier to conquer.
@@nadjiguemarful Great comment. 👌
@@JeffCaplan313 Thanks bro
Okay, who wants to fly in an aircraft designed with ethnically sensitive math and engineering?
Hello, anyone?
Not me, but part of me feels that we should want that just for woke people.
Pass.
This is really refreshing to hear from a mainstream leftist publication
@Vesta_the_Lesser it doesnt matter if most arent for it though because ultimately the people pulling the strings around the world are for it and theres nothing we can do about it
saving this one for the books. I'm beginning a PhD program at Chapel Hill this fall and plan on researching the theoretical tensions between idealist/culturalist academia and materialist independent media
Academia is also materialistic..who makes a lot of money with woke ideas/advertisment.
@@ravanpee1325 different materialism, Ravan. talking about the philosophical distinction between materialism and idealism, not materialistic in the consumerism sense
I'm a white conservative business owner. I've only watched two of your videos and gathered you are left leaning labor organizers, (maybe I'm wrong), but you are people I want to hear more from. I WANT our society to be better for ALL of us. The ideas people are selling are bad for us all. We need more thought (like yours) and less rhetoric.
This is so exhausting. I can only speak for myself, but I came up in the Baltimore City Public School system and I was hard pressed to graduate (and am the only one of my brothers to do so). The education system is skewed, IQ tests, SAT's, general school life are all stacked against the poor general, add the story of my brother, who was a gifted young actor, but couldn't get the lead part of Peter Pan in elementary school, only because Peter Pan is a white character. This long before the fan-boy outrage of colour-blind casting. Carry that kind of heartbreak to therapy later in life, if you can afford it. My experience was I had to pull double duty of trying to fit in, having a long commute to school, and babysitting my brothers. I had no space to actually learn anything, not that we are taught to think/ask questions for ourselves. Every single sibling and cousin of mine and also much of the next generation all carry the scars of trauma. My mother grew up in 'separate but equal' Maryland, told not to use the front door to businesses or having special days to shop. This trauma, this stress is what I was born into. Western/European Culture is inherently white supremacist, and that needs to be addressed, since the rape of Africa helped to put it on top. Of course, there are nice exeptions to the rule, but not in my family. When I was young I got to hear Ben Carson speak, I became such a fan. Fast forward, and I found out this hero, was also an idiot. An idiot who didn't understand the cultural inequalities weighted against non-white passing folk. Probably a lacking in his education. Maybe the writing of the text in question needs to be a bit more explanatory in a way that people who don't carry all of the cultural baggage that I do can see the intention and understand the issues and use the 'worked for you' education to make a positive change in lives of people who you will never probably meet (at least on equal terms).
And in perfectionism we all can learn something from the utmost focus with which Japanese craftsmen work.
Once you realize that the average person is stupid as hell, then all of this crap makes perfect sense.
It's over, save yourself.
First, I am an American who happens to be black, a semi-retired commercial system software developer who has earned a mathematics degree, currently tutoring college mathematics, physics, and software programming. The idea of math being racist is a total fraud; this is really all about current and potential educators, educated primarily in the humanities and social sciences, who believe they have the right to educate our children despite the fact they are innumerate. These educators are attempting to dumb down mathematics to make it easy for themselves, not the students. Case in point: In 2018, 920 teachers were fired because they could not pass the math portion of the Florida Teacher Certification Exam (FTCE). Having obtain a version of the test, I was able to complete it in the allotted time, missing one question for lack of inattention. Look, I have tutored students on the educator track, a number of them vitriolic that they should be required to learn any mathematics. But despite my background, I am pretty evenhanded. I tell my STEM tutees that they must focus on writing as much as on STEM subjects because all of their future work will remain unknown unless they can effectively write about it. And I tell my humanities and social sciences tutees that innumeracy is just as bad as illiteracy.
I like this takeaway. A lot of thinkers have tried to confront professional class "antiracism" but kind of miss the mark and end up being either banal or chauvinistic. This engagement transcends that
Yeah, I try to be as open minded as possible with a lot of this stuff, but some of this is just absurd. I legitimately can’t comprehend how someone can think that much of this is appropriate, unless they have essentialist views of race and ethnicity. I can’t see this as anything but harmful to the left, no matter how well intentioned it may be..
Edit: much like that nice lady in that short video clip describing how “Afro-epistemology”, or however she put it is the explanation for struggling black students… It’s like, what an absurd statement to make about an entire “race”, that comes from multiple peoples, from multiple backgrounds, multiple cultures, and that’s not even getting to the massive genetic diversity of the African continent, which yeah, I think it matters here given the language she’s using and what it implies. It’s just a level of essentialism that is stunningly reactionary to my ears and somehow it’s being sold as progressive. It’s scary.
Why do you assume whites are telling the truth about history? Why do they tell you they invented everything? They can’t build the pyramids yet they claim to be the most advanced. 🤦🏾♂️
Facts
This is exactly what Bret Weinstein denounced in 2017 after Evergreen...
If i were a little kid having problems with fractions and a teacher started talking about some irrelevant bullshit like my family's culture, i would probably become very confused and start crying.
If I was the parent of the little kid I'd be pissed because the teacher's first assumption is that my kid struggles with basic math because of their culture or race. It's an absurd and racist assumption itself.
I wish people would have an actual conversation about what is actually meant in using the terms of "perfection" and a "sense of urgency". The training document you referenced clearly defined what they meant by these terms. They're not talking about perfectionism in general or Sense of urgency in general it is contextual and is in reference to a work culture that shows disregard for the work of BIPOC staff or lack of communication from leadership before making changes that disproportionately affect support staff. One thing that is very American is politicizing those things that are common sense and promote human decency. Thank you, for sharing but I really would like to see real conversations that are not highly engulfed in conservatism and liberalism. I guess we are too connect to political rhetoric to have these conversations..
It truly seems that all these social/political issue channels are doing the exact same thing. Making money from clicks by using polarizing ideas, yet rarely offering any value. The value is for them only.
The "in depth" is shallow gazing. The polarize and we pay for it, (at least twice)
Agreed. They’re missing context. Exactly. I’ve done org change as an agile coach. “Sense of urgency” is more about hegemonic masculinity because men run the companies.
Hegemonic masculinity favors action over reflexivity because reflexivity involves feelings and vulnerability. I most work on teams with men and they don’t slow down to think about things for improvement or impact.
Perfectionism is rooted in being neoliberal subjects, driving constantly toward self-optimization. Also, it’s a defense mechanism in competitive environments where real or perceived “imperfection” can be weaponized by colleagues or management.
“Fear of open conflict” is really true for the PMC. Plenty of research exists that the White Middle-class is very conflict avoidant. I will 1000% die on this hill. White workers often engage in these convoluted rituals to determine what’s happening when it comes to conflict. Most often it involves triangulation, which is the worse communication form. If you are afraid of open conflict, it diminishes the ability to resolve and take responsibility. Whomever has the power in the situation determines how it be handled. I think it puts marginalized people at a disadvantage and that can bite them later
I’ve worked working class jobs with whites people and PMC jobs with them and I definitely see it as more of a class issue. White working class colleagues and management are more down to earth because they weren’t raised to tie professional and educational social markers to self-worth the same way their PMC counterparts were.
Again none of these traits are inherent to “whiteness” but when in the hand of those with power, it takes on a different context and impact
Only a fool would let their enemy teach their children.
-Malcolm X
God thank you for this analysis! I was becoming disillusioned with the left because it was becoming really difficult to find people who challenge some of these ideas.
Have you read "Cynical Theories"? Or anything on these "ideas" by Coleman Hughes, John McWhorter, or Thomas Chatterton Williams?
Katie Halper and Briahnna Joy Gray are examples of lefty commentators who don't buy into IDPOL.
Very important reading!
While I respect putting this video out here in the current cultural climate, you're doing a lot of tiptoeing around the idea that much of this stuff is simply nonsense, and at worst, patronizingly racist. Actually, some of the ideas that these programs put forth aren't terrible, but they're basic concepts of educating people as individuals (don't get me wrong, much of it *is* just terrible). We don't need to invoke the specter of "white supremacy" to implement some of the good things these people are suggesting. It merely shows that the concept of white supremacy has completely eroded in the past year. it literally means nothing now except a vague nod to some kind of nebulous cultural hegemony that in reality seems to have nothing at all to do with race, while trying to make it seem like it's entirely about race, and specifically, about the evils of powerful white people in particular. The concept "whiteness" has become both completely divorced from an actual nuanced understanding of race, and at the same time, a central pillar of our understanding of race. It's all getting very confusing and unwieldy. I've perhaps done a poor job of explaining that, but I think maybe that goes to show how much we've accepted a nonsense proposition and let it carry us too far.
Y'all also mention a vacuum being made by those on the left who are afraid to call this stuff out. You asked why this is happening. Isn't that, too, an obvious answer? All of this stuff has become taboo, and taking a stance against it labels one as a member of an outgroup. This has been obvious for some time. These people who speak out and get labeled as a member of that outgroup, who don't necessarily identify as Republicans or the like, will find themselves unwelcome on the left, especially among the activist left, and they will find no other political space to move to. They will either become disengaged entirely, bitter, or slide to the right. It's time for more people like you to speak up and slaughter some of these sacred cows.
Okun and Jones, Peggy MacIntosh, and Robin Di Angelo have produced material that is both racist and ridiculous. It is shameful that their ideas are as widespread as they have become. What Jen Pan says about the importance of writing things down for an employee in conflict with management is spot on; I won a couple of administrative legal decisions against employers because I had done this.
There's nothing "new" or "widespread" about Robin Di Angelo's or Tim Wise's perspective. What about Michelle Alexander's book, "The New Jim Crow." The US has the largest penal system in the history of the world. There's a "living-memory" of rabid apartheid, eugenics, peonage, spectacle lynchings, red lining, sun-down towns, sentencing disparities, and education discrimination. Why?
The host's obfuscations don't solve problems--they are intended to herd, segment, deflate and contort efforts to rectify long-standing issues created by the icy decision to create a professed meritocracy with the steroids of chattel slavery, and then maintain it for the sake of political, social and economic stability with "Jim Crow." Plutocrats need socially engineered "black/white" tension. Today's curated "topic" is intended to keep the cake's "frosting" from melting.
@@artman2119 Michelle Alexander's book does not resemble Di Angelo's, MacIntosh', or Okun & Jones' writings at all. I don't know why you assume her perspective is the same as theirs.
@@marianhennings1527um how is robin diangelo racist?
I, personally, think higher of black people. I know they're capable and intelligent. I refuse to adhere to the soft bigotry of low expectations.
right- it's my belief if life hands you more adversity- your potential skyrockets if you have a chip on your shoulder. but if you're a victim and buy into the real white supremacists- who don't think you are smart enough to get a voter ID- then you are not going anywhere anytime soon.
@Blaire Sovereign yes- I am in that grey area of sanity where I side with the ppl who are neither right wing extremist white supremacist nor the bigoted far leftists and progressives who are also their own version of covert white supremacists who virtue signal for ppls group limitations but do little to nothing outside of that.
@@GGCandle Are you serious? Some people really have bought into this Right wing BS. Voter ID's, NO Voter Suppression is what it is, disguised in complete and utter BS. For starters consider all of these laws are being made primarily in Right wing states that already require Voter ID's to begin with, and have for decades, long before I was even born. If you take just five minutes to read any of these proposed laws you'd find that not a single one addresses people getting Voter ID's, what they do is limit polling hours, polling stations, and institute fines for registration errors. That is Voter Suppression. I'm not saying all right wing ideas and policies are racist but that is a horrible example to try to prove your point on.
@@ancarwillis9060 Name 5 ppl you know personally that have been suppressed.
@@GGCandle Name 5 people you know who'd fail a voter literacy test
A simple rubric for whether you’re on the wrong track in your thinking is if your position can be boiled down to “______ people just think differently.”
I am politically a social democrat/social liberal, hence a very mild left-winger/centrist in European terms. I am utterly opposed to CRT and anti woke. On this issue, I side with the right. Since people like James Lindsey have spoken out it's a breath of fresh air. This madness needs to stop before it destroys liberal democracy.
jacobin is not for liberal democracy lol
I'm pleasantly surprised to see this from Jacobin.
Jen Pan has addressed these issues before. I am glad to see Jacobin pursuing a common sense path. There is nothing progressive about "wokism."
Don't be surprised. The American body politic has a left and right hand, that, despite appearances, actually work together. The Right is raw and blunt, the Left is backhanded and sneaky--but they ARE twins.
For example, when "progressive" Bernie Sanders ran for president, he did not actively engage the requisite help of Democratic Congressman James E. Clyburn or Stacey Abrams to rally his cause among African-Americans in the South. Did he really expect to win the Democratic Party nomination without the "ADOS/FBA" vote? Nope.
Why expend such energy--what's the strategy?
The Left, Progressives, Marxists, the fringe Right and all professed camps in between are mightily struggling with the same dreadnought challenge that Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln feared regards this nation's future--the existence of descendants of American chattel slavery in a make-believe meritocracy.
The irritated, despite their unquestioned "white" gang power, suspect that the "divine" fulfillment of the American Dream is firmly in the hands of "black" people they wish would disappear.
While the Right storms the capitol, the Left's chess strategy is to outflank the room's elephant with a barrage of sophisticated "intersectional" and "post-racial" diversions, including a media blitz showcasing racially ambiguous people. Ethnically diverse proxies herded under the mythical banners of "Asian" and "Latinx" are used "people of color" to undermine remediation and justice efforts for the ADOS/FBA community.
"Controlled opposition" knights and pawns sweetly and innocuously center and signal boost harmful propaganda against "blacks." This social media program's content is exhibit A.
All this exertion, trouble and pain by the rampaging Ego to keep a wayward "identity" has snow-balling consequences. Alexis de Tocqueville and James Baldwin warned "that a bill is coming due."
@@artman2119 What are Thomas Sowell and Candace Owens' role in this?
You gotta think about what these things mean in the context of dogma. For example, the opposition of the written word. When someone is falsely accused of something and they produce the receipts to show they are innocent, what happens on the left? They start going "Oh, only a guilty person keeps records for so long!" or "Oh as soon as they claim to have the receipts everyone ignores the victim!"
they are opposed to the written word because they don't like when record keeping contradicts lies. They want to just be able to set the narrative, and be unquestioned in so doing.
I like what Paul said about leaving your rights at the door when you step into work. The big tech firms are now developing woke rules as another axe held over the worker's heads. My previous experience as a union member made that fact abundantly clear.
Two parent households help kids achieve well in school.
The bigotry of low expectations is disgusting. These people are charlatans
I know I speak for all poor and middle class whites when I say it’s been a total hoot contributing to white supremacy by struggling to provide for my family.
I haven't been able to say this often about Jacobin videos, but this was an excellent discussion. The examples were spot on. It seems Jen was the lead on developing the presentation content and Paul was providing reaction and analysis, but this discussion was very good. Jen should let Paul speak more, but Paul also needs to get in and use his voice!
My question is why does there have to be a competition between "the right" and "the left"...politics change throughout history. I vote for whoever I agree with their views and policies...not because I want to keep things right or left. I used to vote democrat, now I can't trust democrat politicians. Things change.
I agree with Jen and Paul that this is on the one hand a way of implying that black and brown people are "not cut out" for doing math and science. But I was surprised that the other aspect of the question wasn't discussed. If you bracketed the race aspect, what one of the speakers was saying (~19:00) about different epistemologies or ways of knowing seemed so on point. But then why did she have to go and make it about race or make it a race-essentialist issue? It is absolutely *true* that our culture and curricula devalue contextual, holistic kinds of knowledge in favor of isolated, hyper-analyzed, reductionist forms of knowledge of particular facts and procedures. This is a bad thing, for all of us!
If WEB DuBois was great, it was because he could bring *both* the analytical skills *and* a broad, contextual understanding.
Thank you for making this video. This paper made the rounds like crazy when I was a nonprofit CEO in Grand Rapids, MI and nobody had the courage to criticize it publicly for fear of being called a proponent of white supremacy. Your analysis is excellent and spot on. Nonprofits, universities, and advocates against racism need to trash this document as quickly as possible.
Thank God you guys are pushing back against this absolute insanity
Finally, someone on the left standing up to this nonsense! Thank you!
Shout out Paul. This mans probably one of those high school teachers that really changed the way you think and look at the world. Man could have been another arm chair academic, but he's really out in the field.
Moderate Conservative here. I have a few Marxist and Socialist friends. They are inordinately smarter and more thoughtful than the Woke crowd and I have a lot of respect for them. They object to the poststructuralist revolution happening and want to bring it back to first principles with respect to politics. I can very much appreciate Jacobin even as someone very skeptical with Marxist practice
Ah, JC!
It's great to be reminded of someone whose writing you've enjoyed sometime in the past, but haven't kept up with. I don't see a twitter handle for them? Anyhoo. Time to resubscribe to Jacobin.
As someone who went to school in Jamaica until I was 18, I call bullshit on this whole nonsense. They need to start putting a caning on some unruly backsides to straighten these kids out.
1. Pay attention in class
2. Obey the teachers.
3. Do your homework
4. Success
5. Meh dun
lol i think "wealth gathering" is the opposite of a euphemism for capitalism
Wealth harvesting perhaps
Lol in a world where billionaires unironically referring to themselves as "people of wealth" is a thing, it totally could be a euphemism
As a professor, the document is pretty accurate. This whole youtube channel is class reductionist.
Thanks Jen and Paul. Another excellent video, keep up the great work.
You know who loves when people don't write things down in business ... lawyers ... the ones that sue you.
That's something I criticize as a leftist. Critical theory raised many questions on epistemological issues, but when there is no boundary of inter-subjectivity, you arrive with such non sense of African mathematics or Chinese physics. There are still universals and we, as left, need to focus on objectivity as well. We need to question philosophically where the boundaries between objectivity and subjectivity lie. Of course, there is non sense from pure objectivity who pretend to naturalize their ideology that's why we access first with history and system theory to address issues in our society. Balance and balance is needed.
Quantum field theory doesn't change with regards to who discovered it
There was a try in the 1930s to implement a "German physics", because the leading physics in the country like Einstein were often Jews and the Nazis hated the so called "Jewish physic. Totally bullshit, but he same priciple reoccurs today in the US
As a person of India, which gave the world the concept of zero, this has zero common sense behind it 😄
“What Jacobin Gets Wrong about Antiracism.” Really enjoyed reading it this morning. The author summed up a lot of my concerns about these anti-antiracist videos from Jacobin.
So instead of talking about this video, you're concern trolling and boosting some noname blog. Well done.
@@Its-Not-My-Problem you can't wake up earlier than the woke.
@@Its-Not-My-Problem Why would he repeat the thoughts of a blog that summed his thought on Jacobin when he could just refer to the source of thought?
@@Ron841000 Just type up the title. It should show up as the first medium article.
@@Ron841000 See above.
Jen Pan, miss you on Jacobin!! I looved the Jacobin Show with you and Ariella. Nothing has replaced it!
That list is rather, I dunno, just a few characteristics lumped together and could be about anyone or group. Wasn't the guy, a colonialist, who started the Boy Scouts, and some items on the list of 'A scout is trustworthy, loyal, friendly, etc, what can be attributed to any human whatever the gender, yet he was called out for it. Like arrogance looks good on no one male or female or anyone in between.
I’m a conservative, and I have a great deal of respect for your opinions even though some of them I disagree with. If you and I were in government, I could compromise and work with you for the greater good. Whereas most of left, I talked to simply repeat slogans and when confronted with simple questions are completely confused. For example, I ask A woke supporter“ you’re for woke, but can you answer the question, “what is woke?” They usually answer from a classical liberalism point of view, instead of a critical theories point of you.
i see people often get offended at class reductionism, while seeming to partake in class reductionism. Teachers can be racist too, education is a racial issue as well. not really the most important issue to answer to disingenuous rhetoric, i'd argue racism is more pressing.
Well, by that logic it always will be.
Well maths were invented by Arab people.
Algebra still hurting me 😂
This is downright wrong.
@@derherrdirektor9686 does algebra sound like an english word to you
I think the attack on the written word is a response to the dismissal of oral traditions
Thank you both for this discussion. This is the kind of stuff I used to think only a conservative satirist could come up with. Unfortunately it's real. And manages to be patronizing and insulting to people of all races simultaneoudly.
As Paul notes, this is not the same as avoiding class/cultural/racial bias in the wording of problems on standardized tests.
It seems like those who get degrees in Education or Pedagogy have uncritically absorbed a bunch of dogma that would be challenged if they only took the time to study the actual disciplines the teaching of which they fancy themselves qualified to expound upon.
If that woman is right about black people and white people having such big differences in the way their brain processes things, then isn’t it unfair to the white children to be taught in a manner that isn’t good for them but good for black children? Is she promoting school segregation by race? Or is what is good for white children unimportant? It’s absurd that people are going around advancing the propaganda of white supremacy in the name of fairness to black people.
This may be sloppily written, but I don’t disagree with a fair amount of the points being made. The problem is it doesn’t seem to specify PMC as the specific supremacy culture.
These traits they prescribe to white supremacy culture are heavily apparent to me living as an implant in an affluent suburb, with a spouse who works in the pinnacle of PMC environment. I think if you’re part of the academia-to-pmc pipeline (which you appear to be, Jen) you have a hard time understanding these kinds of analysis . You’re inside the fishbowl.
None of these are suggesting other races, cultures and classes can’t exhibit any of these traits.
You’re breaking this into further granular minutiae; this isn’t implying illiteracy or ignorance in other cultures, it’s explaining how since white peoples have been running the show now for so long, heavily warping and influencing cultures all across the planet with white individualistic capitalistic western-ness as the pinnacle ideal, deciding that the English language, along with white created academia, science, data, church, workplace, justice systems, art, housing systems, dress, appearance, etc etc.. are all creating systems that foundationally make, and keep, others lesser.
how do you think thats solved
@@neilmuir3503 do you want the safe-for-work answer? 😉
Also.. Chet: my favorite Hanks.
Well said - you took the thoughts right out of my mind and put them into words lol. I think you've analyzed this video very succinctly and accurately. It always feels as though whenever the topic of race and white supremacy comes up, there's always detractors ready to downplay its effects, show it's not real, or say that acknowledging/tackling it in any way is somehow racist or not as important as other issues. They never seem to get just how much of a pervasive and structural issue it is globally (not just in white-majority countries) and how it goes hand-in-hand with globalized capitalist economies that exploit the global south (most of whom, unsurprisingly, tend to be majority non-white nation-states). It is both inside and outside of us all and is insiduous in its nature, creeping through even in supposedly innocent terms such as being 'professional' or 'intelligent'.
Thanks for taking the time to write this and acknowledging not only what they're doing in this video, but its deficient critique of a document that tries to break down what "white individualistic capitalistic western-ness as the pinnacle ideal" (as you put it) truly means in a practical sense. I want to recommend FD Signfier's videos on "the faces of black conservatism" to anyone who wants to begin understanding the relationship between systemic racism, class and culture in an American context (which can certainly be applied to some other nations as well).
Saying that objectivity is a characteristic of white supremacy makes as much sense as saying happiness is a characteristic of white supremacy or love of family is a characteristic of white supremacy.
She takes like seven minutes to ask him a question, and then all of her questions are basically like "this thing sucks, right?" For minutes at a time, she's like "my thoughts, some facts, my thoughts, my thoughts, my thoughts, some facts, some facts, [shows him a clip that clearly he will disagree with] what's YOUR take on this?" And he's like "oh yeah, that sucks." I mean, what else can he say? She's thrown him into a conversational cul-de-sac. And sometimes he figures out a way to pivot slightly, bringing up something cool like "can you imagine what W.E.B. DuBois would say about this?" That would have been fun to talk about. But despite nodding and nodding while he talks, when he 's done, she completely drops that thread and starts talking about whatever she was going to talk about anyway. And sure, she has a lot of insights and brings up some interesting points of her own. But I still come away feeling cheated. I mean, why have a guest if you're going to spend 75% of the Q&A talking AT him?
oops... I thought this guy was a guest. This whole thing makes a lot more sense if they are frequent co-hosts and if this was cut from a longer podcast or whatever. I still think she should have given her buddy there some more breathing room to talk about this stuff, but who knows, maybe this was a 5 hour podcast and he dominated the first half of it, so this is her turn to monopolize things.
Education should NOT be tied to people's lives and experience, or at least it certainly shouldn't have to be. Education doesn't exist to tell you what you already know or what you're comfortable with.
Whiteness is not dependent on the pigmentation of one's skin. Oral culture and storytelling are still a part of Black culture. If you can't learn about your own history in textbooks, you need to listen to your elders. Both of you are displaying some intense progressive whiteness, imo.
lmao ok
Huh
I can see the 'white supremacy culture' graphic applying to WASP culture, in quite an uncontroversial way. But taking away the qualifiers of religion and class, and just leaving it at race, does seem off.
The article is explicitly not about race as you state would be off and Okun states this explicitly.
Yup. I agree. The Protestant work ethic can be seen by many Boomers I would hear in 2020 saying "they just need to get back to work" then referring to Leftist, youthful protesters.
@@aaronmoore1171 I read the text as being about race or, more specifically, about the culture of the dominant race vs the culture of oppressed races. I think if she wanted to theorize about something other than race, she could have framed it as Capitalist Culture or WASP culture or mainstream American culture but she chose to call it White Supremacy Culture which I interpret to mean that she believes that white people have a culture that they require non-white people, who have a different culture, to assimilate to. The traits she ascribes to whiteness I don't see being any more prevalent among whites than any other racial group and so it makes no sense to me to call it White Supremacy Culture. To say that whites are, for example, more punctual or hard-working or logical strikes me as blantantly racist. And if that's not what she's saying, then why does she call it White Supremacy Culture?
If you ever worked in a company that is addicted to meetings you are thankful for every memo you get. Saves so much time.
I don't understand the what the point of this video is. Why would you have a guest on your show not to try and understand something, but just to agree with an already fully formed and thoroughly entrenched position against something? When I read this piece a while back, I didn't take it as trying to focus on race as the thing. The piece was about power, and how power can be exercised for various ends through even these everyday, things. Food for thought to consider where and in which ways these things are used as oppressive class/racial tools in order to not be taken by them as innocuous just because they are ubiquitous. Like they were talking about Wall Street and MBA culture, right?
It's the host's (and channel's) intention, Not to Understand, but to frame and push a Post-Racial narrative that ultimately still serves plutocrats who use the mechanism of so-called "white" supremacy to keep serfs and subjects of all hues in check and at each other's throats. Tragically, and all to often, this conjuring requires the ingredients of anti-black racism--the bogeyman.
Here, the underlying agenda is to Sanitize, Distort and Erase the African-American (ADOS) experience in this country to usher in a Brazilian-style color caste system, which is a hopeless pigmentocracy. This is the prayer of many post-1965 immigrants and the goal of plutocrats as a calibrated refinement of WS to remain in Power.
Concurrent with these efforts, is the blitze across media platforms to "creolize" relationships and people. Hence, the worldwind presentation of racially ambiguous people in ads, movies and print media; and the use of the terms and labels, like "intersectionality," "people of color" and "Latinx." All this energy is frantically expended to "disappear" America's original sins and debts. People are too funny.
@@artman2119 Wild. and so what is Jacobin anyways?
Happy to hear you also take issue with these ideas
Im not even on the left but can count on jacobin to provide sensible left views👌👌
Just curious, what brings you here to watch? Mere intellectual curiosity?
@@eemoogee160 the algorithm.
we need to reset our dialogue and policy around reality. rational and caring people across the political spectrum understand this. there is a lot at stake.
good to hear pushback from "the left" on this absurd, regressive and racist intersectional nonsense. it fails everyone - especially those of lower classes - and if not addressed, it will inevitably lead to a reactionary pushback from dark and dim radicals of another stripe.
I live on the NH/VT border, Bernie Country, and I can confirm the worst fear a progressive white has is to be called a racist. This fear predates the now vogue cry that all white people are, out of the womb, racist. That said, the earlier charge still holds true, which is understandable, few would want to be labeled a racist. This fear, however, is a powerful tool to manipulate and is used to control thought and behavior by the political and social Left, writ large. Unfortunately, progressive whites have been conditioned in a way that the necessary courage required in this moment is equated with racism. That is, to challenge CRT is to be a racist. And, with that being the status quo, the burden of mobilizing and confronting the absurdities and regressive tenets within CRT begins with progressive people of color until a critical mass is achieved. Critiques and challenges from the Right will be blindly dismissed in bad faith. This monster is a creation of the Left and only the Left has the authority to deal with it.
"Math is taught in a linear fashion, and skills are taught sequentially, *without consideration of prerequisite knowledge.*" This is a contradiction. Then the woman in the video clip says that context is needed in math. So is teaching context and prerequisite knowledge racist or not? The truth is math is hard for everyone, white people included, but white kids are more likely to have stable homes and communities that give them a better chance to succeed. The stuff about using students' cultural traditions to teach math is just unnecessary and impractical, besides having nothing to do with math.
My favorite part of any of these discourses circuses regarding alleged racism in academics is that White Americans aren't even the one's benefiting the most from the societal factors that allow them to be more successful, it's Asian Americans. That should be the most clean cut answer for anyone wondering why some demographics of children are doing worse in school than others. But no, it's easier to infantilize ourselves and say that it is the factor we can not change in society, i.e. someone's race, that is causing all the problems. I wonder why this is, it couldn't possibly be to ensure middle class Americans empower themselves with the knowledge that creating stable and functional families is the best chance any of us has at helping the next generation.
@@MB-yl9hm What policies promote "stable and functional families" and which subvert them?
That text does not say power hoarding did not nor does not exist in other cultures. That is a logical fallacy by this person. Any other comments like that is also a logical fallacy.
The text is not academic and it is from 2001 so it is very outdated. No one would reference a though-experiment from that went nowhere though academic citations.
They are saying they see it pop up a lot though
The problem, as with CRT and Black Feminist inquiry - is the deep misreading, misunderstanding and/or intentional misrepresentation of the work. Much of the critique in this video of the work is what one of the authors, Tema Okun, has set out to clarify. She has stated that her work has been weaponized by folks to justify positions she never intended - and that is done by misreading or misunderstanding her meaning and definitions of the characteristics.
I think this work is a solid and useful text to analyze our workplaces - presuming that we aren't weaponizing, misreading or misrepresenting the material.
All that said, I support people to have their own ideas and beliefs - including the belief that this work is not valuable to you. I think my only challenge is when our beliefs in opposition to something is really an opposition to what we think it is, but not really opposing that actual thing itself.
Always wanted to see the prequel to Idiocracy.
IdioEvilocracy
I see two democratic libertarians in about 10 years.
Religion is inevitable in the behavior of our species. People will leave the old faiths and stumble into new civil religions.
The idea that this kind of crap is so prevalent throughout the culture but that CRT isn’t being taught in schools is plainly ridiculous.
"rationality and logic are white supremacist concepts"
Great let's just all share how we feel about an issue and then see who has the bigger gun.. seems like a great way of figuring out who's right..
I'm not sure I get your point.
@@davidsheriff9274 If we abandon rationality and logic as our means to solve disputes what are we left with? Traditionally it's violence. I'm not sure what the people who suggest logic is white supremacy see as a viable alternative..
@@SaudiHaramco of course,the whole thing is so racist it could have been written by David Duke. So if logic, reason, empiricism and the scientific method are racist because they come out of the enlightenment, which came from white Europeans,then what does that leave for black people, voodoo black magic and irrationality?
Please, Paul!!! I volunteered for three years at an inner-city preschool which was funded solely on grants and donations. Please stop blaming schools and leaving out the kids’ home lives. No amount of good, well-funded education can fix that, and to deny that is disingenuous. Please at least acknowledge that middle-class black kids just might be doing better because of far better home lives.
why do you think they have bad home lives. do you think that there are material reasons for that?
what is the most racist number
don't say 88 whoever you are
i think 19 is pretty bad
@@late_privktorian_era
Got the first one... But why 19?
0.6
3/5 obviously
You have to give the Democrat Plantation Owners a great deal of credit here...
The ability to adapt your tactics over long periods of great cultural change, and still maintain your core principals as well as your dominance over the culture that you are enslaving... all that while having a large portion of the population that professes to be about equality, advocate for your openly racist agenda as though it was virtuous...
It's really quite something to behold.
And what was James' other (and probably better known) masterpiece about? Cricket.
The only race that's superior is the Saiyan race. The Saiyan people can increase their power by be becoming Super Saiyan.
based
There was a story about a logic test in a pedagogy class that I took where this culture in Africa was given a logic test and they all consistently got the wrong answer according to the answer key but when asked about why they answered the way they did it did make sense in the context or their language and understanding etc. ...
So tests are flawed and culturally biased but that may have nothing to do with white or European culture or it might... in that case you could say that there is a history of colonialism or European bias. I think that that’s ok and it makes sense.
But the more important thing to consider is why their answers make sense in their cultural context. Not so much the fixation on the white supremacy idea.
At the same time there is white and Christian and European supremacy or centrism. That exists. Indigenous cultures have a ton to offer in regard to our assumptions about product and industrial designs. And much of the design of money, industry etc is biased or based in European history and their assumptions about the world.
The scarcity and overpopulation assumption for example, which brings to mind economic neoliberalism in general... also the assumption that we live in a “fallen world” in the Christian culture rather than in or in balance with the divine natural world.... then there’s the alway diminishing returns of design assumption, and the nihilism is the same as skepticism culture that exists in western sciences along with ideological views of scientific established rules and laws which has prevented us from understanding observations and phenomena which exist but which cannot exists according to preestablished interpretations of the laws of thermodynamics etc... another assumption that plagues western society or what is called western society is the idea that the popular vote enables a representative democracy, when in fact the popular vote inevitably creates a oligarchical society because it is a minority consensus vote.
Where as indigenous populations might say that there is abundance where we have said there is scarcity and that overpopulation is based on the design of the systems of civilization that we use....
But obviously it makes no sense to say one culture is better than another even if you could parse that out in some data driven way there is no point to doing that because culture is so fluid anyways and much of what we call European or white culture is borrowed from other cultures originally- including our number system and the scientific method which was taken from Indian and Arabic cultures who probably borrowed it from an even older culture that we don’t know about.
👍
The biggest underlying problem I see with that document is the racial essentialism. Which is racist. Also racist is the complete collapsing of the dizzying diversity of cultures around the world under this term “POC.” You are talking about billions of people around the world who don’t even see eye to eye on things WITHIN whatever cultures they’re a part of (left vs right anyone?), let alone with everyone else who isn’t “white.” It generalizes all non-white people as having some sort of shared set of values that are different than white values. It’s literally just racist af. But it calls itself anti-racist. It’s amazing.
Agree!! Thanks ❤
Jen Pan is cute
And so is Paul
Ya she is
A fellow leftist here who’s run into the overly woke this past year. Glad to find you.
If you're a Leftist you're fine with all the hatred , treason , and lies destroying the entire world.
Who are you kidding ?
@@allamericanpatriot1007 There are a ton of lies from every direction and hatred between people who wouldn’t ordinarily hate each other. I’m not okay with any of it. I’m not fine with generalizing people either, as it lacks nuance and accuracy about the individual. As of late, I have been having to battle the ultra woke off my back. They are calling me a white suprematist (only 3 people to be accurate, out of the plethora of people I know, actually). I’ve been separating myself as for old school liberal democratic principles. Not illiberal authoritarian ones, even when they appear in my own party. I’m considering even going independent until people start telling the truth about everything, and the news stops intentionally dividing people. Divide and conquer has been used since early days to distract people from the real enemies. We, as Americans should not be enemies.
@@allamericanpatriot1007 PS: my favorite comedians are Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle and George Carlin. And I love the bands Sublime, Tool and System Of The Down, to name a few. I hate PC, am individual and artistic, kind and open, and non politically religious. So I don’t know where your getting your views from. Peace.
@@allamericanpatriot1007 would you like someone to characterize your particular political niche charitably?
I agree 100% with what you guys are saying but was it necessary for you to put Jen sneering at some random forlorn looking black kid in the thumbnail? This shit is almost Groyper level baiting.
the idea that white people are perfectionists while black people are not is racist. its a statement that would not sound out of place in the type of drivel that Richard Spencer comes out with. At least a dozen of my bosses have been black, including three foremen from the same gardening company i work at. All of them demanded the same high standards from me that my white foremen demanded. This document is a slap in the face to all black people I've ever worked with.