"Gentrification" Is Not About Race. It's Class - Touré Reed & Adolph Reed
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 гру 2021
- Touré Reed and Adolph Reed discuss why the popular conception of gentrification as primarily a project of racial or cultural displacement obscures the economic forces and capitalist interests that shape housing policy.
Read their latest article here: socialistregister.com/index.p...
Subscribe to the channel and hit the like button!
Subscribe to Jacobin for just $10: jacobinmag.com/subscribe/?cod...
Music provided by Zonkey: linktr.ee/zonkey
I was burned out of a boarding house in NW DC in 1987. It was a African American family-owned row house on Corcoran between 16th and 15th St, a neighborhood that was in that zone between the gentrified NW and the then solidly black and working class 14th St corridor. It took the Insurance company over half a year to authorize repairs and by then the owner was bankrupt and looking at her own eviction from a temporary residence. When I passed the place one year after the fire it was to the sight of baby grand piano being swung into a new third floor bay window by a crane as the proud new owners watched next to neat new wrought iron fencing and a shimmering brass gas lantern by the front door. The insurance company, rather than making timely repairs had forced the owner into a bottom-barrel sale.
That's beyond terrible. Im so sorry.
Ariella's got a great way of speaking that's so concise
She sure does
Asking a thoughtful yet thorough question is such an excellent skill
Love watching these two together. Hope Touré will frequently be joining Class Matters!
*The problem is even when we control for income, often used as a proxy for class, there's still an incongruence in how potential renters or homebuyers are treated based off their perceived ethnicity or race.*
I am as opposed to identity politics as one can be, but I believe you are correct.
But that problem is separate from gentrification, because even though Black people in the same class as White people will sometimes or many times get discriminated against with housing, there are still wealthy Black individuals who own apartment buildings or companies that own them or can still price out lower income people by moving into a neighborhood that primarily houses low income people. The other point I think the Reeds make is that for Black people, racism can be at its root classism because even wealthier Black people are because of racism are believed to be poor (and shorthand for criminal) Black people. Now of course there are straight up racist bankers and landlords and corporate owners of real estate, but from the standpoint of capitalism this would be a stupid and foolish way to conduct business as you are effectively losing potential renters or mortgage owners simply based on race. I don’t doubt it happens but I wonder how often it does happen to PMC BIPOC individuals.
@@ZootSuitSantanot enough to be a focus of any kind of political project.
Really like Adolph Reed's ability to bring class into the focus and explain how racially diverse PMCs are the agents of things like population displacement.
Being that in America your race is a significant indicator of your class, these two defining social dynamics are strongly interlinked as one should not be dismissed in reference to the other. This very reasoning is a great example of why black people cannot rely on others to fight for us because they will dismiss the effects of race at the first opportunity, largely because being non-black they can access the benefits and privileges of being any race accept black.
Unfortunately the Reeds are black but just lightskin. In any case, they're really setting the conversation back for us. They know it's a "both- and" situation but they choose to obfuscate
@@AP-pk6mk I knew they were, I was referring more to the channel. I have been observing that many of the whites who do speak on our behalf do so with a bit of detachment, knowing their lives are not truly affected by our outcomes.
the problem with this view is, although it is true that blacks often have it worse, it can't explain class and capitalism. If it were true that there were something eternally unique about being black , then how can you explain independent, mono-culture countries, that from any traditional cultural perspective are otherwise the same as the US? Why are korean cops beating up korean poor people in korea? Why do Nigerian Americans do better in the US than most whites, can't society see their skin color? Why did poor whites get racialized by rich whites, and forcibly sterilized in eugenics experiments in US history? Why were there some white communities, poorer than working class black communities in pre-civil rights Arkansas? Why do native americans still do worse than african americans, with some native nations having an average life expectancy of 40 years for men? Class.
@@emilianosintarias7337 it's a mixture of class and the history of forcing certain racialized people into classes. Black American descendants of slaves and native Americans weren't allowed to own property and capital for hundreds of years. Black Americans just got the right to even work a decent job around whites in this country. Let's not be dishonest and compare that to upper class and bourgeois Nigerians coming to study and receive graduate degrees in the US. Not analogous at all. Certain races have been forced into class relations, this isn't hard. It's both race and class
@A P that’s just not accurate. Sorry and I don’t be a troll or pile on, especially as a white person who has not ever endured racism, but both Black and Indigenous people did own Capital in America since the 1600s. There were 5 Native American tribes who did own Black slaves and actually did not release them until 1866 under federal government orders…and then did not grant free citizenship to the ex enslaved Black Americans now living on tribal land. Furthermore Black people who arrived as indentured servants were able to buy land upon earning freedom and even buy enslaved people or indentured servants-both White and Black ones. The race based slavery did not actually start until the late 1600s after White and Black indentured servants proved to be a serious threat to British colonial management in Bacon’s rebellion.
Always great hearing Adolph Reeds spot on obsrvations.
Thank you for posting this. The 7/11 chicken wing ban is a direct punch at poor and working class people. Rich folks want us to be there to work for them, but after that they need us to dissapear. I worked at a place where the owner literally told his kids "not to talk to the help".
It may not be a direct comparison but there are areas of South Central Washington state that have been historically farming and mill communities. The working class hispanic and white people in them are being priced out and pushed aside buy wealthy Californians moving in and buying up the "cheap land".
Home prices have more than quadrupled, the culture changed. What were nice farm towns with Mexican rodeos and avid hunting and fishing cultures now looks and feels like a rich snooty California suburb. I know people who have grown up to find they can not afford to rent a place, let alone buy a house in the town they grew up in. They pack multiple generations in single family homes. Its heartbreaking.
Are you going to publish the whole video instead of parts of it ? (For those who live abroad and can't see it live)
This remains a classic and incredibly valuable clip around this issue.
When in doubt, its probably about class. There are some things that aren't about class, but most things most of the time are.
Both play a role. Nothing is often one or the other.
@Oscar Strokosz Yes, understanding the relationship between superstructure and base, is really important if you want to see beyond liberal identity politics.
@@mikew2610 Given that the average Yankee regardless of race lives better than the average Brazilian or Cuban regardless of being white or black. I would say that's not a fact at all..
Get rid of single-family zoning (the most expensive type), legalize more housing types in those zones, provide more housing subsidies/public housing and people won't be displaced -- or nearly as quickly or dramatically.
This!!!💯💯💯
I was looking for the full episode because I want to hear the full interview. I can't find it posted on the channel or on the podcast stream. If its there could you link to it? Thanks!
"publically subsidized rent-intensifying redevelopment" It's got a good beat and you can dance to it
These discussions give me hope
Tax-payer sponsored upgrades of privately owned infrastructure raise rents which is maximally regressive. Henry George solved this in 1879.
For people who don't know, Henry George was the Progressive conservative. His economic analysis concluded the government should pay for everything with property tax. That is the opposite of giving tax breaks to developers. He also wanted the tax to be assessed on land itself (land value) instead of taxing buildings and land together (property). The benefit of land value tax is an incentivize to build and improve buildings. Leftists obviously disagree with George about the size and role of government, but his economic analysis addresses the destructive nature of real estate wealth and neoliberal economics. If the right wasn't also neoliberal, they'd use George to outflank neoliberal Democrats, and they would succeed.
@@michaelcre8
how do you Not have Neoliberal Economics under a Capitalist System?
@@michaelcre8 georgism is a centrist status quo ideology, right along with neoliberalism. even if right wing "libertarians" picked up georgism, there would still be questions around inheritance, unless georgism gets rid of that?
@@ethanstump Absolutely. Georgism addresses the regressive nature of real estate inflation from a conservative perspective, which is a lot better than neoliberalism, but it is still conservative. Neoliberalism is a road to neofeudalism. Georgism is not the solution to monopolization and all the other ways the wealthy abuse power. Social democracy is better.
@@michaelcre8 yeah, i could see a couple of my conservative family members pick up georgism. but the best way forward is socialism.
How can an ordinance such as banning one specific part of a chicken be banned for sale in only one venue ever pass a smell test before even a half awake judge?
Wow. this is reminding me of an essay I read last year about how class and race are interconnected. With how our extreme focus on racial & cultural matters, we forget that Class is an impactful element. This is also related to the colonial history and the Civilization Project. Gentrification is more or less a neo-colonial project. We have to be cognizant of the power dynamics both socially and economically.
Hopefully this is a constructive suggestion. Can you divide the conversation into segments and post them on Facebook or wherever. I listened to it all and love the conversation. But most of my friends might not listen because it is long. I would like to share parts of it that they could listen to. Then they might not listen to the whole.
So where is the evidence that D.C. and other cites have had to cut libraries and forego infrastructure maintenance/repair? I hope there is more to this discussion, that will also be shown. Social scientist have sometime ago concluded that large pockets of concentrated poverty, simply creates more poverty, or sustains it. They say previous efforts to reduce these pockets, made the mistake of relocating poor people, in too large numbers, into the same new community, and in many cases, into communities that were not that much better than, the ones they left. The thinking is that placing them in even more affluent communities, and in less concentrated numbers will be more effective. The much better amenities available to them, and the exposure to a more - so to speak - complimentary culture to advancement, would do the job of eradicating poverty. I'm not sure how old this new strategy is, but it has been in place long enough for it to be graded on its effectiveness. Where are the finding of this study? Have the people been tracked, to tell whether their lives have been approved? Shouldn't this information have been publicized, by now? Were the people (old and new residents) informed that this was a social experiment, that they were a part of? Did they explain what were the goals, and what was at stake in this experiment? Black politicians knew of all this, did they inform us fully of it all?
It is ironic that Nicole Hannah Jones, is getting so much attention for her '1619 Project', but her stance on integrated schools and gentrification, is never talked about. She, in the past, has said, both would benefit Black people. How can something as crucial and fundamental as this, not be heavily debated? Where is a concept of a Black form of community revitalization, especially if Black people are against greater integration?
I literally grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood and now am the only one left and have been harassed by police repeatedly now. Handcuffed questioned for casing my own house, etc.
I’m a white male.
I keep saying we need to target metrics in implementation and demographics in review
If you target poverty, illiteracy, age and language barriers, you target who needs help without giving opportunity for those in power to use demographics to divide
Why is every video I get recommended from this channel about invalidating the social hierarchies that class is built upon? The first half of this video demonstrates how it's clearly both.
How do you mean?
The social class structure of capitalism creates the conditions for racism and racial disparities. The racial, cultural and ethnic differences between people do not create social class disparities.
@@prschuster ok
I think this idea was explored well in the new Candyman movie.
Oh, I should take a look at that. I loved the old one. Thanks for the rec.
@@DavidDistracto I would say it's as good as the first one. Enjoy!
Ariella really going off on this one.
Liked for algo but wish I heard a bit more from my favorite Jocobin duo, Ariella and Jen.
The Cool Bars are like the chic ,hip ,posh ,gastro pubs
I had a friend of mine who lived in SoHo in the 1990s in New York City and they were kind of being muscled out when gentrification happened because you could get you know apartments and loft apartments in Old warehouses for next to nothing and then when these artsy trendy types these yuppies started moving in you know property values went up and you know rent went up and all of the people that she knew including herself were kind of forced out they couldn't afford to live there anymore
Well one sees that the criminal justice system is based on class warfare with racism as a compounding factor amplifying the effects of classism to varying degrees and in horrific ways. But the base level issues start with class and gentrification is similar in that way.
Big up Granby 4 Streets CLT Toxteth, Liverpool
Wisdom
I would think both.
I would agree that it's a complicated issue, but this feels a little too much on the class reductionist side. Looking at gentrification/displacement in a sort-of vacuum like this certainly lends itself to a reductionist approach; but when viewed in a historical context that includes similar practices such as red-lining and self-destructive racism (white people deliberately harming themselves and their own communities in order to inflict greater harm on black people in particular), and the ongoing influence of institutionalized white supremacism in modern American culture, it's clear that this is an issue where intersectionality between race and class is absolutely crucial to understanding and fighting back against the process. Class reductionism is just as unhelpful here as race reductionism.
Is your definition of white supremacy..white demographic dominance. Are whites meant to stagnate or decline or pause development to allow others to catch up
I think it difficult to understand this because whites aren't a group by leftist circles nor if start a culture talking point it's immediately racist or far Right. But then whites are naturally gonna dominate spaces Linguistically culturally? Like English American and Italian American assimilate and become one but white Irish and black regardless of poverty or middle class won't)
Like for example new York? Are the 5 boroughs white? They have always been since founding white demographically like queen's and Brooklyn always but certain neighborhood change with the the great migration of blacks and Puerto Rico immigrants replacing Jewish and Italian who replaced Dutch and English new York culture then it's Pakistani Arab etc
But are whites not a group but if exist it's supremacy wherever they are to a minority? How can you have a white rich man help a white poor man in a multicultural area or class identity
So this is the Touré I've heard so much about from the professor...
I was asking that same question about chicken wings from 7/11
@11:36
The jernts off New Hampshire Ave in White Oak were 🔥tho. When nothing's open? #Clutch
Nobody fighting or discussing gentrification says its about race ?? Do y’all even talk to actual organizers ?
Our area around Cincinnati is gentrified and there are black businesses there lol
Another one of your videos referred to replacing class with race as "racecraft".
True, but can't it be Both?? Perhaps some gentrifications might be Easier in *Certain neighborhoods* than others.
When someone can provide an example of a person of color who is an upper middle class member of the PMC and who has been displaced from a gentrified neighborhood (or who has somehow been restrained from moving into one) I will accept that race plays some significant role in gentrification push outs.
raw chicken wings vs. cooked chicken wings. but i still don't doubt that the rationalization is racist.
This is a logical fallacies gentrification is about race because why only black neighborhoods are being gentrified in New York you have the financial district a couple of blocks up the street you have Chinatown so why is Chinatown not being gentrified most of the people that have businesses in Chinatown are illegally in this country but have businesses do you see the game here
This is similar to saying, abortion isn't a women's (sexism) issue, but a class issue, as wealthy women will still be able to get them.
….yes
Why can't it ever be both? It's intersectionality, no?
... 🤔 ?
@@voxomnes9537 I suppose my point of contention is that those arguing the point only ever seem to focus on how "it's not about race," seem to avoid centering women, and LGBTQIA people. It seems they often only focus on trying to criticize the black community.
@@jeffgray4075 Gentrification is real. The real question is: which hypothesis does best explain the data?
The main narrative is that it is ENTIRELY due to racial bias.
The alternative hypothesis proposed by the Reeds is that social class and wealth play a very important role and since blacks are much poorer than whites (as a result of historical racism), they are disproportionately negatively affected by it.
Why are you so convinced it is completely wrong?
They are rich bc they lied.
Ahistorical take. Gentrification is the natural evolution of a society that developed from Slave laws and then Jim Crow rule. Gentrification is absolutely about race, though it is also about class
Not ahistorical because Jim Crow and even slavery were not national policies-of course they massively and disproportionately hurt Black people but there have always been Black people who owned land, houses and even people going back to the 1600s…I know, I was shocked too but there is good history on this from Black Academics and Historians such as Henry Louis Gates and Nell Painter. Gentrification will always be a racial issue because it disproportionately affects people of color because they are disproportionately poor because of political and economic policies that go back to slavery and Jim Crow-but not exclusively racist because poor whites are also affected by gentrification while there are wealthier Black people who aren’t victims of gentrification and can even be the ones pricing low income people across race out of their neighborhoods.
This might be a stretch, but.
Discarded chicken bones in a bar go back on the plate and into the trash. Whereas the discarded bones of chicken wings purchased at 7-11, many may end up on the ground in that dog park where they were eaten.
A rationale perhaps even more likely than racism.
I think you may have missed his point.
do White people eat chicken wings from 7-11? 🙃
@@populisttrope9385 I don't think so. I took their point to be that the banning of the sale of chicken wings at local convenience stores as an overtly racist policy - classist, if you may, but with these folks, the inference is usually racism. They made that point by pointing out that, though the sale of chicken wings were banned at convenience stores - where those with lower income/class would buy them, whereas the swanky, yuppy bars - patronized by affluent white people - were still able to sell them. Ergo - racism.
My point was, there may have been reasons that have nothing to do with racism - as is usually the case whenever some random "disparate impact" scenario is pointed out.
I get the point that these area parks that were once community gathering areas have been "gentrified" into dog parks. I will not disagree that such changes are unfortunate. However, the banning of chicken sales at local convenience stores could have very honestly been motivated by concerns for animal safety.
If a significant number of locals in the surrounding communities do buy their lunch - chicken wings - eat them in the now dog park, and chuck the bones on the ground, it is aa legitimate concern considering the new primary use of the park, and it would have absolutely nothing to do with racism. Lame? Yes! Racism? Absolutely not.
Now, perhaps they were only referring to class (as the title of this podcast suggests). If so, I stand corrected, but I detected a pretty strong assertion of racism in some of the comments made here. But I usually listen to such inane UA-cam or podcast content while I'm at work, so perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.
You're wrong. Race and class are inextricable.
yeah and no... it's a tricky question I think.
Nope. No one is gentrifying africa, because there is no money to be made.
@@soggybottomboidenis
i want you to take this comment , go into the corner and maybe just sit with it for a little while. thanks.
@@cygmusmandulis7533 Okay. Typo and english is not my first language. The systen runs on structures of profit not race. Gentrifying africa is not because of race, but because of money. If the structures were based on race. we would be living in a nazi land, but we live in capitalism
@@soggybottomboidenis
"no one"... what about the Upper Classes there?
Toure hogging the conversation. Let others speak.
Yup, it's annoying.
@@olab.4352 both of you are haters. he's a guest, and he isnt hogging