@Lykapodium You don't see solid axles on race trucks because recirculating ball steering and massive unsprung mass suck for precision steering at speed. And you DO see IFS on rock buggies but it has absolutely nothing to do with the IFS you'll find on a bronco or toyota. That IFS is basically just normal car suspension and modifying it for offroad use is a losing battle.
I have two Rubicons a 2021 and a 2024. Both 3.6L 8-speed automatics…these new Jeep JL’s are simply amazing! They are so comfortable and built so solid. No reliability issues and can take a beating off road. Definitely no ifs for me!
Agreed. Had a few Gladiators, currently 22’ Mojave and its been the best vehicle I have ever owned. Ever. These new JL JT’s are awesome vehicles that have a reliability rating only slightly behind the current gen 4runner
I have had both and my preference is solid axle. I currently have IFS on the vehicle that I currently own and I am looking forward to get rid of the IFS and converting doing a SAS. Solid Axle ALL the way.
Have a 2nd gen 4Runner and a Jeep WJ. You can feel the bump steer on the solid front axle rig when on the street, and yes, the dreaded death wobble is a possibility if any of your front-end parts are worn out (have experienced it first-hand, and it isn't fun). But on flexy sections, solid axles reign supreme. The IFS is more well-mannered on-road without wobble or bump steer (considering your tires are balanced well), but off-road, they just don't flex as good up front, leading to more wheel lifts. CVs being weaker on the IFS are also a real thing, as the shaft is out in the open on an IFS, whereas it is protected within the axle housing on a solid front axle. Lifts and tire size upgrades are so much easier on a solid axle vehicle, while there are hard limits to lifting an IFS vehicle, due to suspension geometry and CV angles and such.
I couldn’t decide which is better so I got both! Out of the four 4x4’s I own 3 (Expedition, Tacoma, 4runner) are IFS. 1 (JLUR) is solid axle. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Both excel in some conditions and both struggle in others. So ai say have one of each! Cuz I like the, both!
I just enjoy the ability to lift my vehicle in my driveway, with ease, with a solid axle. Other than that, the best axle is the one that doesn’t break.
One of my co-workers got a Bronco earlier this year, one day returning from lunch he pulls into the work parking lot and snap, passenger side wheel pidgin toes in and he can't steer any more. Did he bend or snap the tie rod? nope he snapped the end off the steering rack. The dealership replaces the rack and gets his Bronco back to him about a week later. About a month later while coming to work he turns into the parking lot and snap, this time the passenger side tie rod snaps off at the ball joint. Ford again fixed it but now he is afraid to drive the thing as a parking lot entrance with a 5" tall curb has disabled his vehicle twice within 4 months.
I think a lot depends on how hard you wheel and how much you want to spend. A solid front axle is generally stronger (definitely in the Wrangler vs Bronco comparison) and it's easier and cheaper to lift and fit larger tires. I've had both and if you're gonna wheel hard but slow the solid front is the way to go. I think the average person running 35's and going to Moab once or twice a year will be fine with IFS or if you're into faster desert stuff. The drive on road is so much better with IFS. When I drove my Gladiator on long trips I was always exhausted but my Bronco doesn't wear me out nearly as bad and realistically no matter how much we aspire to go off-road the majority of our vehicles life will be spent on pavement.
@@alanpilibosian1979 The Gladiator really isn't bad on road though. It's just a little more steering input and effort to keep it going straight, the ride itself is actually pretty smooth and nice with the super long wheelbase
Never been off-road, but I have a jeep gladiator Rubicon Eco diesel. Starting to do some upgrades and getting ready for my first off-road trip maybe one day this year.
The post comments now blip made me LOL. I need something with a solid axle that is point and shoot, I just don't have the 'finesse' I need to keep an IFS alive. That Sporttrac is definitely one of my all time faves.
Solid axle always. IFS gets worse and loses travel the more you lift it. It's not designed for lifts and big tires. You can do it, but you gain nothing but ground clearance and then you start breaking everything.
I got me a mojave (my Mo-chine) I add to it, only as I need, but I still cant outdrive it's potential. I never did the wheeling in any othe 4x4, so I dont know that I'm missing out on anything. It's a wheeler when its required, a truck when it's require hit's the obsticles with some flair, and it's a convertible sports car from time to time. I'm happy.
I have a 2021 Wrangler Sport EcoDiesel. It has a 2 1/2 inch lift with 33 inch tires and sliders. It is my only vehicle. It is not a ROCK crawler. It is not a MALL crawler. It is not an Overlander. It is my all in one. I use it off pavement in tricky situations, as cross country highway vehicle and going to town. I have the added capacity to take it on trails as I am traveling across country or just for a ride in the desert or mountains. It is my hunting/camping vehicle. The solid axles is well - solid. For my uses I could have gone with IFS and it would be just as good off road and better on pavement. But it is a Jeep. Ford screwed up with the Bronco Sport. They should have given it another name as Jeep did with the Liberty or Renegade. The Wrangler Sport with a little more lift and a little taller tires will take you places the Bronco Sport will not and my Wrangler is the same size as all the other Wrangler models. So, it is Jeep for me.
I have put hundreds on thousands of miles on solid axle Jeeps and K5 Blazers, and roughly 30,000 miles on an IFS rig, wheeling almost every trail and park in Michigans lower peninsula. My JK with teraflex suspension and falcon shocks definitely handles high-speed whoop sections better than my IFS rig. However, my IFS rig was a stock Corvette with nothing but weight reduction for mods. So that may be part of it.
Ya, airing down doesn't do much with low profile tires, and a catch 22 if it did, when you're only starting with 5" of ground clearance. It brings picking your line to a whole other level. I could have put more tire, less wheel on it but it was an extreme budget build that was more of a go kart/ daily driver/ seasonal road weapon than a hard core off road rig. @AllTerrainFamily
@@Tanner731 rock crawling race cars. It just depends on what you’re building it for. I agree, For most off roaders a solid axle is better. For the majority of the people buying the jeeps or Broncos I bet most don’t take them off road and independent is probably better. For me I would love to get a new bronco and do a solid axle swap. I’ve owned a 66 Bronco for many years with full size axles made for rock crawling. I would love to have a new one to put next to it.
Ive got ifs and have run tons of trails in Colorado and moab it works but ifs eats parts every year. Its easy to work on and i do it myself. Id like a solid axle for my next rig.
Depends on what type of driving experience you want, and how durable you need your rig to be. Do you want the look and feel of wheels remaining on the ground while slow 4x4ing more than you enjoy the way IFS drives on the freeway and mogals?
Freeway doesn't count. Anyone can get home on the freeway. For me it's all about getting home from a challenging trail, without needing a tow truck because something broke.
6:00 BWAAAAAHAHAHA! "I replaced most of the front suspension components on my Bronco so it wouldn't break". Sure, IFS can be strong, but only if you spend thousands replacing factory components. Solid axles are stronger from the factory, which is THE POINT. But to be fair you can replace some components to make SFA even stronger too. But take a factory Bronco and a factory Wrangler into the rocks and we all know which one is driving out under its own power.
@@HarrySituations My point was if you DON"T upgrade anything, we all know which one is coming back out of the rocks without being dragged out, or having replacement parts brought to it so it CAN drive out under its own power (maybe). But yeah, I've also spent a lot upgrading my JKUR quite a bit too, including RCV axle shafts, Reid Racing knuckles and Dynatrac rebuildable ball joints, as well as armor and whatnot to increase the likelihood of not having problems no matter what trail I take.
Well in deep snow, deep mud, deep ruts, or even sand IFS absolutely runs circles around SFA. It's more about the higher front ground clearance and smoother front skid plates acting like a sled.
That hasn’t been my experience, at least in deep snow. I find that the front tends to belly out on the skid plate and the front tires don’t get enough traction to keep you moving forward.
@@HarrySituations well, I can tell you from experience because I deliver doctors and nurses to the hospital when all the roads are closed from heavy snowfall. Recovered dozens of Jeeps. Sometimes multiple cheaps all stuck together. Trying to get each other out. The fact is if you've gone deep enough in the snow that you're hung up on a skid plate that is 16 in off the ground; You've gone way further than you would in a solid front axle vehicle where the axle is only 9 inches off the ground.
@@HarrySituations you mean the one where you compare in your mind the difference between a '77 F-150 on 42-in tires to a stock Subaru? Kind of a ridiculous thought. Put that F-150 on 35s and see the difference. At 2:25 in that video you can see exactly what I'm talking about and that truck is on 42's!
I think independent would be better for situations where you are going faster. Solid axles are best in the rocks or you’re going slow and sometimes need lots of flicks to keep all four tires on the ground. Also, if you have a giant lift like for mud, I would use solid but muddy trails you could get by with independent suspension.
I don't really do comments, but why is the Ford Bronco compared to the Jeep Wrangler so much and not the Jeep Grand Cherokee that is actually in its class? Maybe I'm old, but I just think the comparison would make more sense when comparing oranges to oranges. Having had both over the years, I would go solid hands down.
Some Jeep Grand Cherokees come with rear lockers and 4low. Most Jeeps do not come with 35s. And the removable top I don't think matters at this point. When the Bronco came out originally, it was a comparable vehicle to the Wrangler. Today, it should be compared to the Jeep Grande Cherokee 🤷🏽♂️. Just my opinion.
Great video! How much rubbing is happening from body to frame movement on the bronco. Slow motion higher speed stuff, man, that body is flexing on the frame. Personally I love tje insect like nature of feeling tje solod axle flex and not worrying much about tie rods and u joints. High speed I will take a rzr first any day.
The bumper is solid mounted to the frame, the body is on soft rubber mounts. this is expected to happen. Less noticable on the JL because the bumper does not extend all the way out under the fenders.
@@mitchellbergstrom9551 Of course unless it is unibody or parameter frame it is going to happen but that is excessive. The gen 1 raptor was the same. Watch any Slow motion footage, especially the bed which ended up also bending the frame. That was not due to mounts but bottoming out the rear suspension and the frame never meant to be strong enough for that purpose from the start. They fixed that with the gen 2. It is a lot more movement even if you just focus on the center. I know it helps to dampen the vibrations like a motor mount but the softer it is with more squish becomes a problem over time. Had to replace more than a few 4.0 motor mounts. Rubber between age and cycles like that has a life span just like old leaf spring bushings.
I want to toss in I keep hearing the solid is better in rocks but tje truth is any time tje grou d is very uneven. Live in the pacific north west and sometimes it is dirt and roots. Anytime you need articulation and varied surface maybe?
Harry, Harry, Harry....the Merc has been IFS since '19. OK, not that many of us will actually need to know that but hey, I'm shocked I'm the first to point that out.
Turn the music bed down below your voice. We often know what we are saying when mixing audio in post production, so the music bed gets jacked. I call it the lead singer syndrome. You never allow a lead singer to mix his own vocal sitting at a recording console, because it will be lower than the rest of the band in the final stereo mix. BTW: Solid axle forever!
The answer is simple. Solid axle for crawling, IFS for high speed trail running.
You don't see solid axles on stadium/Baja trucks for a reason, just like you don't see IFS on hill/rock climbers
@@Lykapodium yeah.. Tim Cameroon does it and win multipletimes on his IFS Rock Bouncer ua-cam.com/video/4BCvRJQQvlA/v-deo.htmlsi=DQS3mDlQyd1oLWw3
@@Lykapodium exactly.
What about dual I beam on Ford's?
@Lykapodium You don't see solid axles on race trucks because recirculating ball steering and massive unsprung mass suck for precision steering at speed. And you DO see IFS on rock buggies but it has absolutely nothing to do with the IFS you'll find on a bronco or toyota. That IFS is basically just normal car suspension and modifying it for offroad use is a losing battle.
I have two Rubicons a 2021 and a 2024. Both 3.6L 8-speed automatics…these new Jeep JL’s are simply amazing! They are so comfortable and built so solid. No reliability issues and can take a beating off road. Definitely no ifs for me!
You really should try the 2.0L 4cyl. I own both and I would choose the 4cyl over the 3.6L.
Agreed. Had a few Gladiators, currently 22’ Mojave and its been the best vehicle I have ever owned. Ever. These new JL JT’s are awesome vehicles that have a reliability rating only slightly behind the current gen 4runner
Independent front suspension.
I have had both and my preference is solid axle. I currently have IFS on the vehicle that I currently own and I am looking forward to get rid of the IFS and converting doing a SAS. Solid Axle ALL the way.
Left the sway bar cinected on jeep limiting its axel travel so the bronco didnt get absolutely spanked on video lmao
Have a 2nd gen 4Runner and a Jeep WJ. You can feel the bump steer on the solid front axle rig when on the street, and yes, the dreaded death wobble is a possibility if any of your front-end parts are worn out (have experienced it first-hand, and it isn't fun). But on flexy sections, solid axles reign supreme. The IFS is more well-mannered on-road without wobble or bump steer (considering your tires are balanced well), but off-road, they just don't flex as good up front, leading to more wheel lifts. CVs being weaker on the IFS are also a real thing, as the shaft is out in the open on an IFS, whereas it is protected within the axle housing on a solid front axle. Lifts and tire size upgrades are so much easier on a solid axle vehicle, while there are hard limits to lifting an IFS vehicle, due to suspension geometry and CV angles and such.
I couldn’t decide which is better so I got both! Out of the four 4x4’s I own 3 (Expedition, Tacoma, 4runner) are IFS. 1 (JLUR) is solid axle. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Both excel in some conditions and both struggle in others. So ai say have one of each! Cuz I like the, both!
I just enjoy the ability to lift my vehicle in my driveway, with ease, with a solid axle. Other than that, the best axle is the one that doesn’t break.
Solid Axles for me. Think how cool the modern Braptor would be with a Dana 44 or 50 in the front.
One of my co-workers got a Bronco earlier this year, one day returning from lunch he pulls into the work parking lot and snap, passenger side wheel pidgin toes in and he can't steer any more. Did he bend or snap the tie rod? nope he snapped the end off the steering rack. The dealership replaces the rack and gets his Bronco back to him about a week later. About a month later while coming to work he turns into the parking lot and snap, this time the passenger side tie rod snaps off at the ball joint. Ford again fixed it but now he is afraid to drive the thing as a parking lot entrance with a 5" tall curb has disabled his vehicle twice within 4 months.
Lmao ford
#NotSurprised
I think a lot depends on how hard you wheel and how much you want to spend. A solid front axle is generally stronger (definitely in the Wrangler vs Bronco comparison) and it's easier and cheaper to lift and fit larger tires. I've had both and if you're gonna wheel hard but slow the solid front is the way to go. I think the average person running 35's and going to Moab once or twice a year will be fine with IFS or if you're into faster desert stuff. The drive on road is so much better with IFS. When I drove my Gladiator on long trips I was always exhausted but my Bronco doesn't wear me out nearly as bad and realistically no matter how much we aspire to go off-road the majority of our vehicles life will be spent on pavement.
@@alanpilibosian1979 The Gladiator really isn't bad on road though. It's just a little more steering input and effort to keep it going straight, the ride itself is actually pretty smooth and nice with the super long wheelbase
It takes a lot of engineering to design an ifs that works well and lasts but just about anybody can design a solid axle that does both.
I’ve seen a lot of linked solid axles that worked terrible on the road and on the trail.
Never been off-road, but I have a jeep gladiator Rubicon Eco diesel. Starting to do some upgrades and getting ready for my first off-road trip maybe one day this year.
The post comments now blip made me LOL. I need something with a solid axle that is point and shoot, I just don't have the 'finesse' I need to keep an IFS alive. That Sporttrac is definitely one of my all time faves.
1:46 I felt like I was watching Dora as I screamed Jeep gladiator over and over during that section only to be disappointed 😂
Solid axle always. IFS gets worse and loses travel the more you lift it. It's not designed for lifts and big tires. You can do it, but you gain nothing but ground clearance and then you start breaking everything.
70 series Land Cruiser is still available new in Australia with solid front axle!
For me IFS all the way
I got me a mojave (my Mo-chine) I add to it, only as I need, but I still cant outdrive it's potential. I never did the wheeling in any othe 4x4, so I dont know that I'm missing out on anything. It's a wheeler when its required, a truck when it's require hit's the obsticles with some flair, and it's a convertible sports car from time to time.
I'm happy.
I have a 2021 Wrangler Sport EcoDiesel. It has a 2 1/2 inch lift with 33 inch tires and sliders. It is my only vehicle. It is not a ROCK crawler. It is not a MALL crawler. It is not an Overlander. It is my all in one. I use it off pavement in tricky situations, as cross country highway vehicle and going to town. I have the added capacity to take it on trails as I am traveling across country or just for a ride in the desert or mountains. It is my hunting/camping vehicle. The solid axles is well - solid. For my uses I could have gone with IFS and it would be just as good off road and better on pavement. But it is a Jeep. Ford screwed up with the Bronco Sport. They should have given it another name as Jeep did with the Liberty or Renegade. The Wrangler Sport with a little more lift and a little taller tires will take you places the Bronco Sport will not and my Wrangler is the same size as all the other Wrangler models. So, it is Jeep for me.
IFS is doing better in rocks than ever before
Solid axle is doing better in high speed than ever before.
They both are overcoming their weak spots
IFS is like Rice Crispies. Snap. Crackle. Pop.
Baja 1000 rides are most commonly IFS, but I suppose they are driving on roads so its not technically off roading
I have put hundreds on thousands of miles on solid axle Jeeps and K5 Blazers, and roughly 30,000 miles on an IFS rig, wheeling almost every trail and park in Michigans lower peninsula. My JK with teraflex suspension and falcon shocks definitely handles high-speed whoop sections better than my IFS rig. However, my IFS rig was a stock Corvette with nothing but weight reduction for mods. So that may be part of it.
Just air down that vette and it'll sail over the whoops!
Ya, airing down doesn't do much with low profile tires, and a catch 22 if it did, when you're only starting with 5" of ground clearance. It brings picking your line to a whole other level. I could have put more tire, less wheel on it but it was an extreme budget build that was more of a go kart/ daily driver/ seasonal road weapon than a hard core off road rig. @AllTerrainFamily
People do solid axle swaps,… how many swap to independent??? Enough said.
Just baja guys
Many ultra 4 rigs are going to ifs.
@@brassknucklecustoms racecar stuff is a whole different thing though
He compared it to a Dana 30😂…Enough Said👍
@@Tanner731 rock crawling race cars. It just depends on what you’re building it for. I agree, For most off roaders a solid axle is better. For the majority of the people buying the jeeps or Broncos I bet most don’t take them off road and independent is probably better. For me I would love to get a new bronco and do a solid axle swap. I’ve owned a 66 Bronco for many years with full size axles made for rock crawling. I would love to have a new one to put next to it.
Ive got ifs and have run tons of trails in Colorado and moab it works but ifs eats parts every year.
Its easy to work on and i do it myself. Id like a solid axle for my next rig.
Depends on what type of driving experience you want, and how durable you need your rig to be. Do you want the look and feel of wheels remaining on the ground while slow 4x4ing more than you enjoy the way IFS drives on the freeway and mogals?
Freeway doesn't count. Anyone can get home on the freeway. For me it's all about getting home from a challenging trail, without needing a tow truck because something broke.
6:00 BWAAAAAHAHAHA! "I replaced most of the front suspension components on my Bronco so it wouldn't break". Sure, IFS can be strong, but only if you spend thousands replacing factory components. Solid axles are stronger from the factory, which is THE POINT. But to be fair you can replace some components to make SFA even stronger too. But take a factory Bronco and a factory Wrangler into the rocks and we all know which one is driving out under its own power.
The Wrangler also has a truss, RCVs, upgraded steering… I think everyone I know spends thousands upgrading their axles.
@@HarrySituations My point was if you DON"T upgrade anything, we all know which one is coming back out of the rocks without being dragged out, or having replacement parts brought to it so it CAN drive out under its own power (maybe). But yeah, I've also spent a lot upgrading my JKUR quite a bit too, including RCV axle shafts, Reid Racing knuckles and Dynatrac rebuildable ball joints, as well as armor and whatnot to increase the likelihood of not having problems no matter what trail I take.
Well in deep snow, deep mud, deep ruts, or even sand IFS absolutely runs circles around SFA. It's more about the higher front ground clearance and smoother front skid plates acting like a sled.
That hasn’t been my experience, at least in deep snow. I find that the front tends to belly out on the skid plate and the front tires don’t get enough traction to keep you moving forward.
@@HarrySituations well, I can tell you from experience because I deliver doctors and nurses to the hospital when all the roads are closed from heavy snowfall. Recovered dozens of Jeeps. Sometimes multiple cheaps all stuck together. Trying to get each other out.
The fact is if you've gone deep enough in the snow that you're hung up on a skid plate that is 16 in off the ground; You've gone way further than you would in a solid front axle vehicle where the axle is only 9 inches off the ground.
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 I take it you haven’t seen my snow wheeling videos. 🤣
@@HarrySituations you mean the one where you compare in your mind the difference between a '77 F-150 on 42-in tires to a stock Subaru? Kind of a ridiculous thought. Put that F-150 on 35s and see the difference. At 2:25 in that video you can see exactly what I'm talking about and that truck is on 42's!
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 I mean this one.
ua-cam.com/video/OtVq9AuPfOk/v-deo.htmlsi=-DM40D9rl12HQeU6
the bronco was the better car last time i drove them back to back offroad
IFS sucks, I got sick of it. I had a 2018 ZR2 Colorado that I wheeled hard. Having a tire in the air constantly gets old.
I think independent would be better for situations where you are going faster. Solid axles are best in the rocks or you’re going slow and sometimes need lots of flicks to keep all four tires on the ground. Also, if you have a giant lift like for mud, I would use solid but muddy trails you could get by with independent suspension.
I don't really do comments, but why is the Ford Bronco compared to the Jeep Wrangler so much and not the Jeep Grand Cherokee that is actually in its class? Maybe I'm old, but I just think the comparison would make more sense when comparing oranges to oranges. Having had both over the years, I would go solid hands down.
Because they both have lockers, low gears, 35” tires, and removable tops. The Grand Cherokee has none of those things.
Some Jeep Grand Cherokees come with rear lockers and 4low. Most Jeeps do not come with 35s. And the removable top I don't think matters at this point. When the Bronco came out originally, it was a comparable vehicle to the Wrangler. Today, it should be compared to the Jeep Grande Cherokee 🤷🏽♂️. Just my opinion.
Great video! How much rubbing is happening from body to frame movement on the bronco. Slow motion higher speed stuff, man, that body is flexing on the frame. Personally I love tje insect like nature of feeling tje solod axle flex and not worrying much about tie rods and u joints. High speed I will take a rzr first any day.
The bumper is solid mounted to the frame, the body is on soft rubber mounts. this is expected to happen. Less noticable on the JL because the bumper does not extend all the way out under the fenders.
@@mitchellbergstrom9551 Of course unless it is unibody or parameter frame it is going to happen but that is excessive. The gen 1 raptor was the same. Watch any Slow motion footage, especially the bed which ended up also bending the frame. That was not due to mounts but bottoming out the rear suspension and the frame never meant to be strong enough for that purpose from the start. They fixed that with the gen 2. It is a lot more movement even if you just focus on the center. I know it helps to dampen the vibrations like a motor mount but the softer it is with more squish becomes a problem over time. Had to replace more than a few 4.0 motor mounts. Rubber between age and cycles like that has a life span just like old leaf spring bushings.
I want to toss in I keep hearing the solid is better in rocks but tje truth is any time tje grou d is very uneven. Live in the pacific north west and sometimes it is dirt and roots. Anytime you need articulation and varied surface maybe?
INEOS Grenadiers have solid front axles too... They're available in US market right?
Correct. I forgot that one, they aren’t really on my radar.
Harry, Harry, Harry....the Merc has been IFS since '19. OK, not that many of us will actually need to know that but hey, I'm shocked I'm the first to point that out.
The Jeep literally looked more composed at high speed in that super slow shot right there. Not worth the trade off imo
All has to do with the mission.
A lot of ultra4 rigs are ifs
Lol everything in the front is changed before it broke but "other than that" it's stock?
Stock diff housing, stock knuckles, stock unit bearings, stock brakes…
Depends on what your doing with it
If you replace everything the solid axle is relive. 😅
Yes
G wags went IFS
G wagon is ifs now
IFS = never. Amen
Turn the music bed down below your voice. We often know what we are saying when mixing audio in post production, so the music bed gets jacked.
I call it the lead singer syndrome.
You never allow a lead singer to mix his own vocal sitting at a recording console, because it will be lower than the rest of the band in the final stereo mix.
BTW:
Solid axle forever!