Hey...GM really screwed up by putting IRS on Tahoe's and Suburban's just wait until they put IRS on the Silverado 🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️and GM wonder why Ford always out sells them
Solid axle definitely aids in Off Camber. Black Bear Pass in Colorado for example...my buddies Rubicon takes the off camber steps with complete confidence. My lifter, but very capable 4runner still gets very tippy with the front IFS.
Will always always choose solid front axle if I can. But most of the time it's hard to justify spending the value of the truck to do the conversion unless its a dedicated crawling rig. Wish more vehicles left the factory that way
I’ve been stuck on the trail three times with broken tie rod ends in the last 20 years with IFS. Vehicles…1990 Nissan 4X4 truck, 1995 Chevy Z71 and 2010 Toyota Tacoma. I definitely prefer SFA and buy Jeeps because of it.
@@DUNEATV dude upgrading stock jeep toothpick steering is the first thing anybody with a brain does. It's awful. 95% of IFS steering is better than stock jeep shit.
@@MrCherrygrovedude haha, you wish. I've lifted my 03 Rubicon years ago. Been 4 wheeling dozens of times over. Never had front end problems. Ever. Actually owned 3 different Wranglers, never had steering problems with any. But IFS, that's cheap junk mostly, especially the import stuff
I had an 07 fj cruiser. Obviously IFS. I had an OME lift with JBA upper arms and no front sway bar. I never once thought it was unstable or thought I'd roll. And I tackled some of the hardest trails in my region. Was it as smooth over big rocks as a wrangler? No. But was it as good or better on every other terrain? Probably. Brilliant on sand, dirt roads, paved roads, mud, and mild rock crawling. But again I say, over serious rock crawling I could not keep up with a similarly equipped wrangler (lift, bigger rubber, lockers)
I absolutely agree.. when I was a teenager my first vehicle was an 84 Toyota solid front end. and I never looked back. I currently have a 2010 Rubicon two-door with 4 in. left 35, s and a whole bunch of other goodies of course. I have winched out a lot of my friends that have the new Toyota 4Runner.. so there you go. thanks for the awesome videos
But it is lacking a common and easy to work on big Power or big Power potential V8 power plant.... and then from there it probably doesn't have axles strong enough to deal with said power either.. so. .. it's out.
@@walkerforsyth6221 the 80 is extremely reliable, it's not hard to work on, the axles are very strong and if you want you can always do a LS swap without having to upgrade the drivetrain. but how much power do you need? I've been absolutely everywhere in my 80. Are you trying to load down your rig with a ton of extra gear or pull a 10,000 pound trailer? then yeah the 80 won't be good for that.
The best vehicle and or setup in my humble opinion is the one where you know and understand your vehicles abilities & limitations in relation to the environment you’re driving or riding in or on that day. ✌🏽
The issue I've run into is, the IFS is preferred for a LOT of trails out here in Nevada, where you have long runs of whoops, long rough terrain, etc. The issue is, you can go many miles where IFS excels, only to come upon some rocky formations/obstacles, that the IFS gets VERY tippy. Add on a roof tent and things that make a long range camping vehicle increase its COG, and I find myself really wishing I had a solid axle. Rollovers in high canyons of Nevada or Colorado...they come with big penalties, so it makes you have to be VERY careful when coming off obstacles on an angle. All it takes is to not have enough droop on the IFS and you can easily roll toward the unsettled corner and flip the vehicle. My issue is, with the GMT800 tahoe/suburban, you can't put a front locker in either. This is now forcing me to do the sas.
My IFS, 2004 Suburban 2500 with a 6 inch suspension lift and air lockers front and back fills my needs. My offroad vehicle is also my daily driver. I often sleep in it when camping and I can fit the occasional 4x8 sheet of plywood or drywall in it. I go offroad occasionally but mostly travel forest roads and getting there and home often takes as much time as spent on the trail. The lockers compensate for occasional front wheel hang. Also, since it's a 3/4 ton, there is no easy way to convert the torsion bar IFS to a solid axle. That said, I have been looking at various platforms for as a base to build a more capable trail vehicle and it will be an LJ (it will be a used older model). There's just no better base for a trail rig.
I'm glad the Ineos Grenadier that will be released soon has solid axles, it also has a very good payload capacity so imo it's the perfect overlander since we don't get Toyota Troop carriers in America.
IFS makes it to the obstacles before and solid axle goes right around them at the first sign of off camber obstacles. The IFS folks for, some reason, REALLY like to put every bit of weight they can on the tops of their vehicles. Gas cans that never get used, rooftop tents, awnings, shit the roof racks themselves ... Then complain that they're tippy...
Use the right tool for the job. Period. it does not matter what kind of vehicle, you have to drive it differently according to how it is equipped. If I am going over the same obstacle with solid axles as I would with with an independent suspension, I would just use a different method for each. But I could say the same thing for clearance, tires, weight, power, AWD/4x4 traction system, etc...... Are the people rolling their vehicles considering those things? I will bet they are not in a lot of cases. I watch a lot of off-road videos where it is clear that the person driving has no idea how to even work the traction system. Let alone know how to get that same vehicle over an obstacle.....LOL To each their own. I get into the same discussions with cars and motorcycles too.......
I can tell your clearly a novice. Even a city boy knows a jeep Rubicon is the ultimate off road SUV. Guess what rookie? The Rubicon has solid axles! Do I need to do the math for u son?
@@wildestcowboy2668 Stock Rubicons are average at best. Sink about another $30K into a Rubicon, then we will talk. Just rule out Range Rover, Toyota 4 Runners and Ford Broncos, etc.... that are ready to go out of the box. Also, read my post again. I am not debating what is better. My message was leaning toward working with what you have. "Use the right tool for the job." was my opening line. If you feel like you need a Rubicon for the job use it. Most people do not need a modified Rubicon just to go up some trails. If you think I am a novice, fine. I have plenty of receipts to prove how much of a novice I am....Flame on. But next time at least read my post before you go on the attack...LOL But I get it. Trolling can be fun........
@@phineashenshaw first of all if I was a troll I would have called you a name, or I would have been salty to you. Again there is no debating it my friend, the Jeep Rubicon is the only stock factory unit to ever conquer the Rubicon trail in California facts! Jeep actually built the Rubicon in '03 so rookies could go off road, that didn't know how or where they should or shouldn't go! You seem like a good guy wish you were closer and I'd take you for a spin in the country and show you my friend how to properly drive a 4x4. Good day Sir.
Trick question. Depends on the type of offroad and setup used. Rock crawling = solid axle. Pre-runner/trophy truck = independent. Less potential for broken parts = solid axle. Cheaper to set up from scratch = solid axle. Best on road for a daily = independent. Also, independent suspension was NOT introduced by Mercedes in 1960. Independent front suspension has been around since like the 20s. Independent REAR suspension was made back in the 60s and im pretty sure it was jaguar that did it first.
Solid axle for me. I just love the way it all moves, the rigidity, lesser parts, articulation. And it‘s my opinion, that i don‘t want ride comfort on roads. I enjoy the feeling of some rough reliable slabs of steel. A car that is built like a railroad bridge on wheels is what i prefer over a wheel on a couch
"If you planned on taking the money you would have spent on properly lifting your independent suspension there's a good chance you could have replaced the entire IFS with a good conditions salvage yard sourced solid axle and swapped that in with a brand new suspension for probably around the same price and not even that much more work at all...". So, the WORK involved in installing a bolt-on drop bracket lift versus the WORK involved in removing IFS components, cutting out IFS subframe, fabricating a saginaw-style steering box mount on the frame and tossing the IFS steering rack, fabricating control arm mounts, fabricating the coilover or spring mounts, making the necessary modifications to the axle, etc., etc. is "not even that much more"? I normally like the videos on this channel but whomever wrote this line needs to be given like a 90's Nissan truck or even a newer FJ Cruiser or Tacoma, maybe an angle grinder and a welder and then told to give us an update in a couple of weeks and let us know how the "work" is going. A drop bracket lift can be installed on a Saturday. A solid front axle conversion takes a few more minutes. The price of the SFA parts is a whole different story.
i swapped in a solid axle in my chevy over a weekend for around $1k. that was after having to rebuild the ifs 4 times in 5 years because of chain reaction carnage from light off road use which cost over$1500 each time. ifs has its place but sooner or later even the toyota guys are looking for a dana 60.
If you know what you are doing or are working on a vehicle that is very supported like a tacoma or a silverado, a solid axle swap can be done in a weekend. Heck, there are almost bolt in leaf kits for c10s/k5s.
I was always a die hard GM guy, and I just bought a super duty, due to the durability of the solid axle. Unfortunately unless GM goes solid axle, I’ll be sticking with Ford, especially because of snow plowing. Your video really helped me feel better about my decision. The truth is solid axle is just stronger.
While I do understand the advantages of IFS, given the choice, I will always choose a solid axle 👍 Also, this is Dillon Bishop. I don't know if y'all remember me, but I have been watching for a while and used to comment on every video...
I've been in Moab for many days over the years with many different vehicles and hands down a Wrangler with a disconnected sway bar is WAY more comfortable off road. It's like being in a gently rocking boat, ifs is extremely jarring in comparison from my experience.
new offroader of 2 yrs, its all about solid axle. Ive owned samurai, solid axle toyotas, dana44 toyota, now D60/14bolt toyota. Solid axle is literally solid to IFS.
Old fords and dodge solid front axles and older chevy solid fronts rock in streath. But to many new fords and dodges are getting the death shake and never been off road. A friend had a dodge and both axle tubes broke off at the ring and pinion. It became a 3 pc axle with parts all over the road
Solid axle for sure. Not only are they stronger they are also a simple system with less components to break over all. Maintenence is easier, and I would like to see someone ratchet strap an IRS back together to make it out of a trail after breaking a cv shaft like you can a solid axle shaft.
We prefer Solid Axle because of more wheee travel and resistence under heavy loads on paved roads is more estable and confortable IFS. Regards TrailBuilt guys.
Actually Ford was one of the first to utilize not only independent suspension (as we know it today) but for front and rear as well. Just not for the civilian market. Ford started prototyping for the M151 jeeps in the 50s and reaching production in ‘59 I believe. I think there is record of an independent suspension using torsion bars as early as the 1920s
I personally like my solid axles on my jeep grand cherokee more then my ifs that my nissan frontier pro 4x has both lifted 4 inch and still like the jeep better
Actually, IFS heave suspension would force the opposite wheel down like a solid axle. There is a third shock/spring that is actuated by both wheels moving in the same direction, but doesn’t move when the wheels articulate in opposite directions. It’ll move half as far if one wheel stays the same and the other moves.
I have both my 01Tj jeep ifs My 85 lifted dodge mud truck solid A few observations...1st is death wobble is almost always on ifs i have yet to have it on any solid axle truck but all my ifs have had issues 2nd i agree solid is cheaper easier and tuffer I would never switch from solid to ifs I may on the right vehicle switch to solid from ifs kinda like you see tons of cummins swaps into all brands but you would almost never see a cummings replaced with anything else Seems the week link on solid axles are its harder to make em flex
Most of us disconnect the swaybar for while off roading. I use #swayloc for my wrangler unlimited sport. I get tons of flex and no side to side feeling. It rides great and much safer off road.
Yeah, that side to side happens on every vehicle with a sway bar. It just so happens that SFA vehicles need stronger sway bars and it makes it more pronounced. My rubicon sway locked rocks back and forth hard on speed bumps at the mall. But when it’s unlocked it glides over them without transmitting any motion. Quite awesome. It’s why I got a tazer to disconnect whenever I want to on trails in 2wd.
@@KTMcaptain the swayloc is much like a rubicon but it has a high and low swaybar. Low allows for more articulation but without that completely disconnect feel. I flip the switch all the time for speed bumps in an angle.
@@rilopez825 even a softer sway bar will still try and lift the planted wheel under articulation which places more weight/load onto the climbing wheel.
It all depends on the terain you plan to run. Until u Expect your rig to turn Billy goat to climb boulders. Up till that ifs rules. Even with a bracket lift. It's all about how much travel you want in your suspension. It's really that simple.
Independent suspension is less likely to roll over on the road , solid axle might be less likely to roll over off road. It's the same story over and over basically. What's good for on road is typically bad for off road and what's good for off road is typically bad for on road. I would say that if you don't need more than 8 inches of suspension travel for what you want to do , get (a vehicle with) independent suspension. It will ride better and it will (according to the literature) have better traction as this is a Tennant of independent suspension. If you need more travel than that , get solid axle. It just depends on what you want to do. One of the most capable 4 wheel independent suspension off road vehicles ever built is probably the defender which has roughly the RTI of a Wrangler with the sway bar still connected. It's just the way it (usually) is.
I suppose one drawback of solid axel is that the wheels tilt vs independent wheels stay verticals so less chance of vehicle rolling over. Why is there not a solid axel setup where the wheels stay vertical and don’t tilt and crest that angle you don’t want. A hybrid of the two?
I drive 20% offroad and prefer solid axle, even if it’s only 20% it makes the difference of me breaking an IFS system and making it home with no issue with my solid axle
I'll take solid axles all day, every day. In the case of the new Bronco, what are people going to do to get more articulation in the front? Longer control arms? Ok, now the front wheels stick out farther than the rears which is on a solid axle. That makes no sense. Ford should have committed to solid axles or independent front and rear. I have a feeling the hardcore wheelers that switched to a Bronco will be back in a Wrangler sooner than the hype predicts.
@@phild9813 While it's nice that the Bronco has independent lockers, that's been a mod on Wranglers for years now. It's not hard to wire them to operate independent. Same with sway bar disco. A mild lift and longer shocks on a Wrangler and it'll twist for days. Long arms won't effect the track. To me, Ford is catering to the soccer mom crowd more than the serious off roader.
@@riccochet704 I always see people who don’t seem to know (or just don’t care) that they can just remove their sway bar links on a Sahara or sport while they’re airing down if they don’t wanna buy a rubicon or spend on a button disco. Plus a lsd while not as amazing as lockers is still good enough for most situations. I think for the money and the off-road prowess a base model 2 door willys would out wheel a base model bronco even with the Sasquatch package. I’ve already been seeing some of the guys with them on pre order boasting it being wider than a Jeep or bigger screen. Things that don’t add any capability. They really do cater to a whole separate crowd despite how similar Ford made them to the JL platform.
Good video. But Toyota is still putting solid axles on pickups, the Land Cruiser 79 still uses a solid front axle. This is available in Africa and Australia, assembled in Europe and exported as a grey import around the globe.
You forgot to mention having both wheels off the ground because your massive differential hooked a rock that was bigger than you thought with your solid axle.
There's more to offroading than rockcrawling. SFA for rocks. For everything else, IFS. Lockers and a flexy rear can make up for a loss of articulation with IFS. The new Bronco is a decent example of this.
Nice video mate. I wasnt gonna say nothing but then you brought up the rig at MOAB that rolled lol. I rolled my side by side lol. I wasnt climbing though. I miscalculated a right turn, going downhill on marked trail. I guess i unintentionally climbed. i meant to drift, but waited a milisecond too long and as entering the turn, my passanger right wheel caught the earth of the peninsula leading to the turn, if that makes sense.. it was like i was about to turn, but my back right wheel went up a half pipe lol. I bet a solid axle would have plowed through that, but i doubt i would have been able to drift it like i typically do though, if it was a solid axle set up. It wouldn't have made the turn lol but then again neither did i 😂 good times
Happens to the best of us! That's the downside of offroading - even when you least expect it, things can go wrong. And when things go wrong, they go from zero to a hundred real quick, lol. Glad to hear you are alright. Keep going, my guy!
I think it's simple... If you have the same or more suspension travel with independent suspension as you have with a solid axle and the strength is there... There's no question that independent suspension is better. Also, if the required suspension travel is within the range of the independent suspension, then independent suspension will be better...
off roading explained I agree and went with one I like alot. AFull size Bronco I liked alot. The TTB can be built strong and have a lot of suspention/wheel travel is great withw 4 wheel drive I did build up better my long chromolly raduis arms with big stainless steel heimJoints for travel too my beams I gusseted snd plated and added a vertical piece weilded to top and bottom ofte plates that connected the arms to the beams givong each another connection On tall King shocks after weighing my bronco frot and back seperate with what I thought I would carry. I brought the weights back andordered and paid the man who sold them to me Brett King. So stoked at how they smooth out the whoops and land surprise big iair at the 2018 Mint 400 on a mission to thank him seeing the king trailer I pased close to BJ Baldwin Bumbed I did not see him I would like to meet himand I do believ he may have had went with me? Bret was happy to hear how much I liked them and introduced me to Lance King his dad also happy to hear my happy liking .I have done a lot more labor to it sinse he loked at it to see if it was a quaalifier for kings to make it perform.I learned that since I bought them King Has two bigger shops a bit closer to me I hope to see him to thank him again Maybe purchase some coil overs or/and Bump stops if he thinks I might need them.
off roading explained I agree and went with one I like alot. A Full size Bronco I liked a lot. The TTB can be built strong and have a lot of suspension/wheel travel is great with 4 wheel drive I did build up better my long chromoly radius arms with big stainless steel heim Joints for travel too my beams I gusseted snd plated and added a vertical piece welded to top and bottom of the plates that connected the arms to the beams giving each another connection On tall King shocks after weighing my bronco front and back separate with what I thought I would carry. I brought the weights back and ordered and paid the man who sold them to me Brett King. So stoked at how they smooth out the whoops and land surprise big iair at the 2018 Mint 400 on a mission to thank him seeing the king trailer I passed close to BJ Baldwin Bummed I didn't see him I would like to meet him and I do believe he may have had went with me? Bret was happy to hear how much I liked them and introduced me to Lance King his dad also happy to hear my happy liking .I have done a lot more labor to it since he looked at it to see if it was a qualifier for kings to make it perform.I learned that since I bought them King Has two bigger shops a bit closer to me I hope to see him to thank him again Maybe purchase some coil overs or/and Bump stops if he thinks I might need them.I have been a couple or three times so far but he did not happen to be there. Oh well I will try again & hope for the best With Gears and lockers and a wide stance only a 4 inch cut and turned lift gears and lockers and glass fenders core support headlights and grill I got the front end I liked better and swapped it all myself. The latest upgrade sone by one of the best and trans built to handle it well and even I built well my transfer case have strong drive shafts after a trio to the river ate my new rear one do to it having Chinese U Joints had to stop in Banning and Banning driveshaft built me a better one. I also put a front pass side slip shaft axe from a F250 with big u joints then spent the time cycling it spinning the wheels by hand in4x4 and turning the wheel all the way up and down clearing the tight spots so it would not fail to function and set some new limit straps and mounts.Just a little more to do if I can It does work great for what I like to do. About everything there is I handles rocks better than I would imaginSand very well and everything else.
That guy on the trail that rolled… he stacked it super high so center of gravity is too high, he did not pick the right line literally driving across the face, plus it’s too lightweight with tiny tires.
it's kinda pointless to ram independent suspension down peoples throat when most vehicles and trucks currently only have it on the front .. so the whole benefit of Independent suspension is not realized until it is in front AND back. I had a old lifted Subaru that had independent suspension front and back and it was super capable in the mud because it could keep traction in the ruts due to its great center ground clearance.
My preference is IFS/ independent suspension because i use 90% in a year for comfortable ride. Maybe 2-3 times only i go serious Off Roading in a year. Bronco fan.
My thought is plan for the worst conditions you’ll be in. Even if you only offroad on an extreme trail once a year, having a solid axle over IFS can be the difference between making it home or not.
"Toyota hasn't put a solid axle in their pickup trucks since 1985." cough cough 2022 Toyota LandCruiser 70 series includes a truck. Also while technically not a truck, 1997 Toyota LandCruiser 80 series.
I have a set up Toyota 4Runner I trail ride, I haul a hog trailer off road going in empty coming out with a load of hogs, as you know IFS front end. I've used it to climb hills and rocks from time to time and I would NOT change it for a solid axel for any reason.
Ifs for speed stuff and daily driver. Solid front for rocks. Solid rear always.
Hey...GM really screwed up by putting IRS on Tahoe's and Suburban's just wait until they put IRS on the Silverado 🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️and GM wonder why Ford always out sells them
Toyota actually does make a very rugged solid front axle pick up, just not here in the US
Solid axle definitely aids in Off Camber. Black Bear Pass in Colorado for example...my buddies Rubicon takes the off camber steps with complete confidence. My lifter, but very capable 4runner still gets very tippy with the front IFS.
Probably the best, well rounded, discussion without bias that I have ever heard regarding pros and cons of the 2 systems.
Will always always choose solid front axle if I can. But most of the time it's hard to justify spending the value of the truck to do the conversion unless its a dedicated crawling rig. Wish more vehicles left the factory that way
I’ve been stuck on the trail three times with broken tie rod ends in the last 20 years with IFS. Vehicles…1990 Nissan 4X4 truck, 1995 Chevy Z71 and 2010 Toyota Tacoma. I definitely prefer SFA and buy Jeeps because of it.
So buy HD tie rods for IFS...like you have to do with jeeps lol. Stock jeep steering is absolute trash.
@@MrCherrygrovedude Why do you say that? Compared to what?
@@DUNEATV dude upgrading stock jeep toothpick steering is the first thing anybody with a brain does. It's awful. 95% of IFS steering is better than stock jeep shit.
@@MrCherrygrovedude My 2021 2DR Rubicon’s steering is awesome. So no thanks…
@@MrCherrygrovedude haha, you wish. I've lifted my 03 Rubicon years ago. Been 4 wheeling dozens of times over. Never had front end problems. Ever. Actually owned 3 different Wranglers, never had steering problems with any. But IFS, that's cheap junk mostly, especially the import stuff
I had an 07 fj cruiser. Obviously IFS. I had an OME lift with JBA upper arms and no front sway bar. I never once thought it was unstable or thought I'd roll. And I tackled some of the hardest trails in my region. Was it as smooth over big rocks as a wrangler? No. But was it as good or better on every other terrain? Probably. Brilliant on sand, dirt roads, paved roads, mud, and mild rock crawling. But again I say, over serious rock crawling I could not keep up with a similarly equipped wrangler (lift, bigger rubber, lockers)
I absolutely agree.. when I was a teenager my first vehicle was an 84 Toyota solid front end.
and I never looked back.
I currently have a 2010 Rubicon two-door with 4 in. left 35, s and a whole bunch of other goodies of course. I have winched out a lot of my friends that have the new Toyota 4Runner.. so there you go.
thanks for the awesome videos
To summarize: The best vehicle you can use off-roading and overlanding is a 80 Series Land Cruiser. You are welcome ;-)
😂😂😂😂
Hey I got one of those (3X Locked) 🙃
@@Aldeeezzy YES!!! Me too...so you know exactly what I mean ;-)
But it is lacking a common and easy to work on big Power or big Power potential V8 power plant.... and then from there it probably doesn't have axles strong enough to deal with said power either.. so. .. it's out.
@@walkerforsyth6221 the 80 is extremely reliable, it's not hard to work on, the axles are very strong and if you want you can always do a LS swap without having to upgrade the drivetrain. but how much power do you need? I've been absolutely everywhere in my 80. Are you trying to load down your rig with a ton of extra gear or pull a 10,000 pound trailer? then yeah the 80 won't be good for that.
solid only for me, I agree ifs rides nicer but they roll over way to easy
The best vehicle and or setup in my humble opinion is the one where you know and understand your vehicles abilities & limitations in relation to the environment you’re driving or riding in or on that day.
✌🏽
Off road? Solid Axles all day.
The issue I've run into is, the IFS is preferred for a LOT of trails out here in Nevada, where you have long runs of whoops, long rough terrain, etc. The issue is, you can go many miles where IFS excels, only to come upon some rocky formations/obstacles, that the IFS gets VERY tippy. Add on a roof tent and things that make a long range camping vehicle increase its COG, and I find myself really wishing I had a solid axle. Rollovers in high canyons of Nevada or Colorado...they come with big penalties, so it makes you have to be VERY careful when coming off obstacles on an angle. All it takes is to not have enough droop on the IFS and you can easily roll toward the unsettled corner and flip the vehicle. My issue is, with the GMT800 tahoe/suburban, you can't put a front locker in either. This is now forcing me to do the sas.
My IFS, 2004 Suburban 2500 with a 6 inch suspension lift and air lockers front and back fills my needs. My offroad vehicle is also my daily driver. I often sleep in it when camping and I can fit the occasional 4x8 sheet of plywood or drywall in it. I go offroad occasionally but mostly travel forest roads and getting there and home often takes as much time as spent on the trail. The lockers compensate for occasional front wheel hang. Also, since it's a 3/4 ton, there is no easy way to convert the torsion bar IFS to a solid axle. That said, I have been looking at various platforms for as a base to build a more capable trail vehicle and it will be an LJ (it will be a used older model). There's just no better base for a trail rig.
Solid Axel Team!!!
I'm glad the Ineos Grenadier that will be released soon has solid axles, it also has a very good payload capacity so imo it's the perfect overlander since we don't get Toyota Troop carriers in America.
True. Y have a montero and a jk and glade off them.big fan from Puerto Rico.
IFS makes it to the obstacles before and solid axle goes right around them at the first sign of off camber obstacles.
The IFS folks for, some reason, REALLY like to put every bit of weight they can on the tops of their vehicles. Gas cans that never get used, rooftop tents, awnings, shit the roof racks themselves ... Then complain that they're tippy...
Use the right tool for the job. Period. it does not matter what kind of vehicle, you have to drive it differently according to how it is equipped. If I am going over the same obstacle with solid axles as I would with with an independent suspension, I would just use a different method for each. But I could say the same thing for clearance, tires, weight, power, AWD/4x4 traction system, etc...... Are the people rolling their vehicles considering those things? I will bet they are not in a lot of cases. I watch a lot of off-road videos where it is clear that the person driving has no idea how to even work the traction system. Let alone know how to get that same vehicle over an obstacle.....LOL To each their own. I get into the same discussions with cars and motorcycles too.......
I can tell your clearly a novice. Even a city boy knows a jeep Rubicon is the ultimate off road SUV. Guess what rookie? The Rubicon has solid axles! Do I need to do the math for u son?
@@wildestcowboy2668 Stock Rubicons are average at best. Sink about another $30K into a Rubicon, then we will talk. Just rule out Range Rover, Toyota 4 Runners and Ford Broncos, etc.... that are ready to go out of the box. Also, read my post again. I am not debating what is better. My message was leaning toward working with what you have. "Use the right tool for the job." was my opening line. If you feel like you need a Rubicon for the job use it. Most people do not need a modified Rubicon just to go up some trails.
If you think I am a novice, fine. I have plenty of receipts to prove how much of a novice I am....Flame on. But next time at least read my post before you go on the attack...LOL But I get it. Trolling can be fun........
@@phineashenshaw first of all if I was a troll I would have called you a name, or I would have been salty to you. Again there is no debating it my friend, the Jeep Rubicon is the only stock factory unit to ever conquer the Rubicon trail in California facts! Jeep actually built the Rubicon in '03 so rookies could go off road, that didn't know how or where they should or shouldn't go! You seem like a good guy wish you were closer and I'd take you for a spin in the country and show you my friend how to properly drive a 4x4. Good day Sir.
Trick question. Depends on the type of offroad and setup used.
Rock crawling = solid axle.
Pre-runner/trophy truck = independent.
Less potential for broken parts = solid axle.
Cheaper to set up from scratch = solid axle.
Best on road for a daily = independent.
Also, independent suspension was NOT introduced by Mercedes in 1960. Independent front suspension has been around since like the 20s. Independent REAR suspension was made back in the 60s and im pretty sure it was jaguar that did it first.
Solid axle for me. I just love the way it all moves, the rigidity, lesser parts, articulation. And it‘s my opinion, that i don‘t want ride comfort on roads. I enjoy the feeling of some rough reliable slabs of steel. A car that is built like a railroad bridge on wheels is what i prefer over a wheel on a couch
"If you planned on taking the money you would have spent on properly lifting your independent suspension there's a good chance you could have replaced the entire IFS with a good conditions salvage yard sourced solid axle and swapped that in with a brand new suspension for probably around the same price and not even that much more work at all...". So, the WORK involved in installing a bolt-on drop bracket lift versus the WORK involved in removing IFS components, cutting out IFS subframe, fabricating a saginaw-style steering box mount on the frame and tossing the IFS steering rack, fabricating control arm mounts, fabricating the coilover or spring mounts, making the necessary modifications to the axle, etc., etc. is "not even that much more"? I normally like the videos on this channel but whomever wrote this line needs to be given like a 90's Nissan truck or even a newer FJ Cruiser or Tacoma, maybe an angle grinder and a welder and then told to give us an update in a couple of weeks and let us know how the "work" is going. A drop bracket lift can be installed on a Saturday. A solid front axle conversion takes a few more minutes. The price of the SFA parts is a whole different story.
i swapped in a solid axle in my chevy over a weekend for around $1k. that was after having to rebuild the ifs 4 times in 5 years because of chain reaction carnage from light off road use which cost over$1500 each time. ifs has its place but sooner or later even the toyota guys are looking for a dana 60.
If you know what you are doing or are working on a vehicle that is very supported like a tacoma or a silverado, a solid axle swap can be done in a weekend.
Heck, there are almost bolt in leaf kits for c10s/k5s.
I was always a die hard GM guy, and I just bought a super duty, due to the durability of the solid axle. Unfortunately unless GM goes solid axle, I’ll be sticking with Ford, especially because of snow plowing. Your video really helped me feel better about my decision. The truth is solid axle is just stronger.
While I do understand the advantages of IFS, given the choice, I will always choose a solid axle 👍
Also, this is Dillon Bishop. I don't know if y'all remember me, but I have been watching for a while and used to comment on every video...
And no one cared
I've been in Moab for many days over the years with many different vehicles and hands down a Wrangler with a disconnected sway bar is WAY more comfortable off road. It's like being in a gently rocking boat, ifs is extremely jarring in comparison from my experience.
Easy. IFS for my wife's vehicle and solid axle for mine.
I like straight front axle jeep links and coils as it's so much easier to replace bushings ect
The best way to illuminate the pogo stick ride and the frequent death wobble running a solid axle is to build a 3 or 4 point long arm on coil set up.
new offroader of 2 yrs, its all about solid axle. Ive owned samurai, solid axle toyotas, dana44 toyota, now D60/14bolt toyota. Solid axle is literally solid to IFS.
Somewhat apples and oranges, my 2wd 1968 Ford F100 has the twin I-beam front axle.
Sort of a hybrid solid/IFS suspension.
Old fords and dodge solid front axles and older chevy solid fronts rock in streath. But to many new fords and dodges are getting the death shake and never been off road. A friend had a dodge and both axle tubes broke off at the ring and pinion. It became a 3 pc axle with parts all over the road
i do technical trail/ rock crawl wheeling, definitely a solid axle vehicle is the best way to go.
Solid axle for sure. Not only are they stronger they are also a simple system with less components to break over all. Maintenence is easier, and I would like to see someone ratchet strap an IRS back together to make it out of a trail after breaking a cv shaft like you can a solid axle shaft.
We prefer Solid Axle because of more wheee travel and resistence under heavy loads on paved roads is more estable and confortable IFS. Regards TrailBuilt guys.
Actually Ford was one of the first to utilize not only independent suspension (as we know it today) but for front and rear as well. Just not for the civilian market. Ford started prototyping for the M151 jeeps in the 50s and reaching production in ‘59 I believe. I think there is record of an independent suspension using torsion bars as early as the 1920s
Early 60s cherokees also had an independent front system.
yup my 88 ranger has the TTB IFS , alot of fun
Had samurai, toyota, dana44, dana60s axles
Ill always stick with solid axle for offroading. I do want a light weight side by side with ifs
GM has IFS junk in their 2500hd and 3500hd 4wd trucks...and that's why I did a solid axle swap on my dmax 👍🏿👍🏿
Been going out more and more in my 08 F-150. I think for my purposes I just need a locker for the rear and I’m good.
SFA for the win. Properly set up can have great on road manners and a comfortable ride yet be extremely capable off road.
I personally like my solid axles on my jeep grand cherokee more then my ifs that my nissan frontier pro 4x has both lifted 4 inch and still like the jeep better
I agree, my '95 ZJ just soaks up the bumps and jumps, rides so smooth its insane. And the power from the v8 is a plus
Actually, IFS heave suspension would force the opposite wheel down like a solid axle. There is a third shock/spring that is actuated by both wheels moving in the same direction, but doesn’t move when the wheels articulate in opposite directions. It’ll move half as far if one wheel stays the same and the other moves.
Anti roll bars!!!
@@toyotagaz what about them? They easily work with these systems (they are /were heavily used in F1 racing)
I have both my 01Tj jeep ifs
My 85 lifted dodge mud truck solid
A few observations...1st is death wobble is almost always on ifs i have yet to have it on any solid axle truck but all my ifs have had issues
2nd i agree solid is cheaper easier and tuffer
I would never switch from solid to ifs
I may on the right vehicle switch to solid from ifs kinda like you see tons of cummins swaps into all brands but you would almost never see a cummings replaced with anything else
Seems the week link on solid axles are its harder to make em flex
Most of us disconnect the swaybar for while off roading. I use #swayloc for my wrangler unlimited sport. I get tons of flex and no side to side feeling. It rides great and much safer off road.
Yeah, that side to side happens on every vehicle with a sway bar. It just so happens that SFA vehicles need stronger sway bars and it makes it more pronounced. My rubicon sway locked rocks back and forth hard on speed bumps at the mall. But when it’s unlocked it glides over them without transmitting any motion. Quite awesome. It’s why I got a tazer to disconnect whenever I want to on trails in 2wd.
@@KTMcaptain the swayloc is much like a rubicon but it has a high and low swaybar. Low allows for more articulation but without that completely disconnect feel. I flip the switch all the time for speed bumps in an angle.
@@rilopez825 even a softer sway bar will still try and lift the planted wheel under articulation which places more weight/load onto the climbing wheel.
Faster speeds, generally will want IFS. Slower speeds, generally will want solid.
What is your thoughts on the Marlin Crawler rclt HD kit compared to the Rack Hound straight axle kit?
It all depends on the terain you plan to run. Until u Expect your rig to turn Billy goat to climb boulders. Up till that ifs rules. Even with a bracket lift. It's all about how much travel you want in your suspension. It's really that simple.
Great video! I feel smarter now!
Independent suspension is less likely to roll over on the road , solid axle might be less likely to roll over off road.
It's the same story over and over basically. What's good for on road is typically bad for off road and what's good for off road is typically bad for on road.
I would say that if you don't need more than 8 inches of suspension travel for what you want to do , get (a vehicle with) independent suspension. It will ride better and it will (according to the literature) have better traction as this is a Tennant of independent suspension. If you need more travel than that , get solid axle.
It just depends on what you want to do.
One of the most capable 4 wheel independent suspension off road vehicles ever built is probably the defender which has roughly the RTI of a Wrangler with the sway bar still connected. It's just the way it (usually) is.
I've had both, but my back demands ifs.
I suppose one drawback of solid axel is that the wheels tilt vs independent wheels stay verticals so less chance of vehicle rolling over. Why is there not a solid axel setup where the wheels stay vertical and don’t tilt and crest that angle you don’t want. A hybrid of the two?
You do very astute videos that impart very accurate information that everyone into off road should know. Dandahermit
I drive 80% road and 20% offroad that why endependent axel. If I would drive 80% offload, of course solid will be my choice.
I drive 20% offroad and prefer solid axle, even if it’s only 20% it makes the difference of me breaking an IFS system and making it home with no issue with my solid axle
I'll take solid axles all day, every day. In the case of the new Bronco, what are people going to do to get more articulation in the front? Longer control arms? Ok, now the front wheels stick out farther than the rears which is on a solid axle. That makes no sense. Ford should have committed to solid axles or independent front and rear. I have a feeling the hardcore wheelers that switched to a Bronco will be back in a Wrangler sooner than the hype predicts.
Sway bar disconnect and lockers on the Bronco are huge. I hear what you’re saying though. I would’ve preferred a solid axle on the Bronco also.
@@phild9813 While it's nice that the Bronco has independent lockers, that's been a mod on Wranglers for years now. It's not hard to wire them to operate independent. Same with sway bar disco. A mild lift and longer shocks on a Wrangler and it'll twist for days. Long arms won't effect the track. To me, Ford is catering to the soccer mom crowd more than the serious off roader.
@@riccochet704 I always see people who don’t seem to know (or just don’t care) that they can just remove their sway bar links on a Sahara or sport while they’re airing down if they don’t wanna buy a rubicon or spend on a button disco. Plus a lsd while not as amazing as lockers is still good enough for most situations.
I think for the money and the off-road prowess a base model 2 door willys would out wheel a base model bronco even with the Sasquatch package. I’ve already been seeing some of the guys with them on pre order boasting it being wider than a Jeep or bigger screen. Things that don’t add any capability. They really do cater to a whole separate crowd despite how similar Ford made them to the JL platform.
Amazing off road.
Ty
“hold my beer” - said the PORTAL’s.
Good video. But Toyota is still putting solid axles on pickups, the Land Cruiser 79 still uses a solid front axle. This is available in Africa and Australia, assembled in Europe and exported as a grey import around the globe.
You forgot to mention having both wheels off the ground because your massive differential hooked a rock that was bigger than you thought with your solid axle.
There's more to offroading than rockcrawling. SFA for rocks. For everything else, IFS.
Lockers and a flexy rear can make up for a loss of articulation with IFS. The new Bronco is a decent example of this.
Nice video mate. I wasnt gonna say nothing but then you brought up the rig at MOAB that rolled lol. I rolled my side by side lol. I wasnt climbing though. I miscalculated a right turn, going downhill on marked trail. I guess i unintentionally climbed. i meant to drift, but waited a milisecond too long and as entering the turn, my passanger right wheel caught the earth of the peninsula leading to the turn, if that makes sense.. it was like i was about to turn, but my back right wheel went up a half pipe lol. I bet a solid axle would have plowed through that, but i doubt i would have been able to drift it like i typically do though, if it was a solid axle set up. It wouldn't have made the turn lol but then again neither did i 😂 good times
Happens to the best of us! That's the downside of offroading - even when you least expect it, things can go wrong. And when things go wrong, they go from zero to a hundred real quick, lol. Glad to hear you are alright. Keep going, my guy!
Toyota has a solid axle in the 2.5 gen Tundras??
What is the best suspension for my 05 Subaru Baja
I think it's simple... If you have the same or more suspension travel with independent suspension as you have with a solid axle and the strength is there... There's no question that independent suspension is better.
Also, if the required suspension travel is within the range of the independent suspension, then independent suspension will be better...
off roading explained I agree and went with one I like alot. AFull size Bronco I liked alot. The TTB can be built strong and have a lot of suspention/wheel travel is great withw 4 wheel drive I did build up better my long chromolly raduis arms with big stainless steel heimJoints for travel too my beams I gusseted snd plated and added a vertical piece weilded to top and bottom ofte plates that connected the arms to the beams givong each another connection On tall King shocks after weighing my bronco frot and back seperate with what I thought I would carry. I brought the weights back andordered and paid the man who sold them to me Brett King. So stoked at how they smooth out the whoops and land surprise big iair at the 2018 Mint 400 on a mission to thank him seeing the king trailer I pased close to BJ Baldwin Bumbed I did not see him I would like to meet himand I do believ he may have had went with me? Bret was happy to hear how much I liked them and introduced me to Lance King his dad also happy to hear my happy liking .I have done a lot more labor to it sinse he loked at it to see if it was a quaalifier for kings to make it perform.I learned that since I bought them King Has two bigger shops a bit closer to me I hope to see him to thank him again Maybe purchase some coil overs or/and Bump stops if he thinks I might need them.
off roading explained I agree and went with one I like alot. A Full size Bronco I liked a lot. The TTB can be built strong and have a lot of suspension/wheel travel is great with 4 wheel drive I did build up better my long chromoly radius arms with big stainless steel heim Joints for travel too my beams I gusseted snd plated and added a vertical piece welded to top and bottom of the plates that connected the arms to the beams giving each another connection On tall King shocks after weighing my bronco front and back separate with what I thought I would carry. I brought the weights back and ordered and paid the man who sold them to me Brett King. So stoked at how they smooth out the whoops and land surprise big iair at the 2018 Mint 400 on a mission to thank him seeing the king trailer I passed close to BJ Baldwin Bummed I didn't see him I would like to meet him and I do believe he may have had went with me? Bret was happy to hear how much I liked them and introduced me to Lance King his dad also happy to hear my happy liking .I have done a lot more labor to it since he looked at it to see if it was a qualifier for kings to make it perform.I learned that since I bought them King Has two bigger shops a bit closer to me I hope to see him to thank him again Maybe purchase some coil overs or/and Bump stops if he thinks I might need them.I have been a couple or three times so far but he did not happen to be there. Oh well I will try again & hope for the best With Gears and lockers and a wide stance only a 4 inch cut and turned lift gears and lockers and glass fenders core support headlights and grill I got the front end I liked better and swapped it all myself. The latest upgrade sone by one of the best and trans built to handle it well and even I built well my transfer case have strong drive shafts after a trio to the river ate my new rear one do to it having Chinese U Joints had to stop in Banning and Banning driveshaft built me a better one. I also put a front pass side slip shaft axe from a F250 with big u joints then spent the time cycling it spinning the wheels by hand in4x4 and turning the wheel all the way up and down clearing the tight spots so it would not fail to function and set some new limit straps and mounts.Just a little more to do if I can It does work great for what I like to do. About everything there is I handles rocks better than I would imaginSand very well and everything else.
So what about two solid axels front and rear vs all independent front and rear?
Quadralink rules.
That guy on the trail that rolled… he stacked it super high so center of gravity is too high, he did not pick the right line literally driving across the face, plus it’s too lightweight with tiny tires.
There ant much aftermarket support for my SUV which kinda sucks
i guess it depends on the speed you need and how many wear and alignment points you're willing to service.
Mercedes wasn't the first to have IFS, some of the German 4x4 cars developed before and used during WW2 used independent suspension front and rear.
Do you guys have a podcast?
We don't currently! But maybe it is something we will look into...
Solid axle for crawling. If I wanna go fast I’ll drive my sports cars lol.
it's kinda pointless to ram independent suspension down peoples throat when most vehicles and trucks currently only have it on the front .. so the whole benefit of Independent suspension is not realized until it is in front AND back.
I had a old lifted Subaru that had independent suspension front and back and it was super capable in the mud because it could keep traction in the ruts due to its great center ground clearance.
The same for my swb Pajero with 32", I saved a stuck in the mud lifted Patrol with 35". I passed with ease...
Solid axels are superior for serious off roading with a factory vehicle.
My preference is IFS/ independent suspension because i use 90% in a year for comfortable ride. Maybe 2-3 times only i go serious Off Roading in a year. Bronco fan.
My thought is plan for the worst conditions you’ll be in. Even if you only offroad on an extreme trail once a year, having a solid axle over IFS can be the difference between making it home or not.
I think solid axles are better by far. Even for daily drive...
Drawings would help explain.
My Ford has twin I beam, work that be considered ifs or a solid axle?
Ifs
i buying a 4Runner off road then doing my thing to it make better
Anti roll bars do exist right...?
or am i an idiot?
LET’S GO BRANDON!
FJB 🤣😅
This is so funny 😆
Solid axle gang
Why go trail built and not just get my stuff from trail gear?
"Toyota hasn't put a solid axle in their pickup trucks since 1985."
cough cough 2022 Toyota LandCruiser 70 series includes a truck. Also while technically not a truck, 1997 Toyota LandCruiser 80 series.
🤔 rego rex ifs jeep....
Rav4 best
Solid axle won't roll over. Trains are solid axle.
Popcorn
I have a set up Toyota 4Runner I trail ride, I haul a hog trailer off road going in empty coming out with a load of hogs, as you know IFS front end. I've used it to climb hills and rocks from time to time and I would NOT change it for a solid axel for any reason.