Christian Nationalism and COVID
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- On this episode of Ask an Atheist, we are joined with a leading scholar on Christian Nationalism, Samuel Perry. He will help us understand how Christian Nationalism affects our response to Covid-19.
Learn more about the Freedom From Religion Foundation at ffrf.org.
As I Christian, I really appreciated this discussion. Christian Nationalism has bothered me for a long time. I have many friends who are Christian Nationalists, and I have sometimes gently tried to point out their hypocrisy by asking "what would Jesus do?" but to no avail. The sheer arrogance of believing, without any biblical, scientific, or historical support, that the United States is an extension of Israel, God's chosen people, is quite frankly ridiculous. Yet so many are convinced of this. The hatred they show (although they would deny it's hatred, just 'being realistic') toward those who are not like them or who do not agree with them--the name calling, mocking, bullying, rejecting, etc.--flies in the face of the biblical command to 'love one another' and 'love our enemies.' They forget that we are a secular society, and the liberties they espouse and enjoy are not just for them but for all. Jesus lived under oppressive Roman rule yet did not rail about the injustices and cruelty. Even when he faced death by crucifixion, he remained silent. Christian Nationalists are the first to call what they perceive as easily offended liberals "snowflakes" yet they exhibit this same behavior when anything that goes against their Christian Nationalistic beliefs is challenged.
This. When you are devoutly Christian and have conservative religious beliefs and actually call people out on their poor behavior it's really hard to find a place to fit in. I always feel like I don't fit anywhere. It encourages me so much when I meet other believers who find their locus in the Bible instead of Fox News.
I’m a Christian too and this subject has forever bothered me. I’ve finally started telling people exactly what I think....they are making idols out of our country....plain and simple. But they refuse to see it.
I was born into the cult of Joseph Smith. Mormonism, when viewed in context of the Second Great Awakening, was constructed around the Book of Mormon, which sought to explain endemic Americans in Biblically context. Native Americans were a lost tribe of Hebrews. The Bible is geographicly centric. A all knowing God failed to acknowledge humanity outside 8% of earth surface.
Your religion is not a religion just a business. Do you think your pastor would still preach if the money stopped coming in? They would say " God didn't want it this way" as an excuse to find a new job 😂
I have wanted to ask a Christian that doesn’t identify as a Christian Nationalist this for a while now: Do you feel like Christianity is being hijacked with political identity in the U.S.? I feel like they probably speak more about politics than theology in many Churches in this country, and if that is so then how do those people NOT SEE THIS?!!!
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in("Hugging") the flag and carrying a cross(Bible)."
~Sinclair Lewis
Sounds like trump
More like dry humping the flag!
Carrying a bible upside down . . .
He was spot on.
...Like the cross they brought into Washington DC in January.
I come from a rural conservative Christian background. There is much unspoken racism. The people seem to think you are blameless and harmless as long as you’re polite when you express your horrible beliefs.
thank you, Tim, for putting that out there. Having become a christian May 1982 at a conservative baptist church in the south, i was very, very disappointed when i discovered this non-refutable reality. Many housed bigotry, discrimination, and even racism under the guise of "conservative conviction".
Not everyone of course - - but it was blatant (albeit in naivety for the most part.).
So, this vid has a lot of truth behind it...albeit, it really falls into op-ed at many times - but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
But this video is 100000% accurate in presenting the conservative right as practicing "christian nationalism" that is having an impact on american society - in not so positive ways at this time.
@@mikewinburn There are no "positive ways" in Christian Nationalism.
I am a Christian and even I am alarmed by the extremeist Christan nationalist movement!! I appreciate you guys talking about this!! Keep telling the truth of this cult movement!! Thank you so much!!
Thanks for being an ally to the protection of all people.
I feel the same shame, especially in regards to my kinfolks to whom I have preached the gospel.
This is probably one of the best interviews I’ve seen in a long time. It really captures and summarizes the inner workings of Christians in America
that I’ve been witnessing for a long time.
People that say they like “In God we Trust” have never Read the Bible.
Or they have read it, but realized early on that they could use for their own selfish reasons.
Those who can make you believe absurdities. Can .make you commit, Atrocities$!-VOLTAIRE.
Holy water=Magic potion
Prayer=Magic spell
God=Magic being....
These people live in a magical land of make believe....
This really helped me with defining and clarifying Christian Nationalism. Thank you I look forward to reading the book. I can’t help but to evaluate the Christian Nationalism ideology through Steve Hassan’s BITE Model.
Have you read The Cult of Trump by Steven Hasan? It is well worth the read. Also American Fascists by Chris Hedges.
Christian nationalism is strong among evangelical Brazilians, who have taken a major step toward church-state fusion with the 2018 election of President Bolsonaro. There is a great deal of pushback in the Legislature and elsewhere. The Catholic Church, still the major denomination, is definitely not on board.
Catholics aren’t on board with Bolsonaro or with the pushback?
in brazil there are brown brazilians and the power structure of european decent white brazilians
The problem is rampant in all of Latin America.
The vice-president, the secretary of state, the attorney general and chief-of-staff are all four evangelical christian dominionists. All four!
Do not kid yourself.
TRUMP IS A MAJOR ENABLER EVEN THOUGH HE'S THE FURTHEST FROM BEING A CHRISTIAN.
Trump knows an exploitable resource when he sees it.
Which is why I detest people downplaying him as harmless for what seems like “stupidity”. He’s fully endorsed and enables perhaps the most dangerous political faction in this country.
@@MarquisLeary34 Not much of a Religious Left now is there?
We win the argument by winning the Elections. Vote for Democrats. Save democracy.
This is the history of Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church has spent centuries involved in a country’s political/governing power.
Great discussion...as a previous "christian nationalist", spot on. I am still a patriot, and still a christian, but christian nationalism is an abuse of both the belief it purports to hold up and the nation it purports to serve. Thank you for this discussion.
Glad you left the movement!
It's nice to see another Christian on here who knows where the line is. I am Christian. But, I have no right to force my beliefs on others.
This channel should have at least a million followers.
Didn’t you hear that interview where republican strategists asked the Christian leaders for “we need more fear and more anger”.
Few things could be more pernicious for America than a fusion of right wing nationalism and radical Christian beliefs, that produce a fascist version of theocracy. Separation of religion and government has never been more crucial.
It’s never a good idea to mix religion and politics religious people should just follow spiritual teachings of their faith.Christian nationalism is like politic Islamist it uses religious language but it’s all about politics.Very dangerous.
The enablers are the biggest hurdle to overcome for any movement.
Thanks guys, very interesting and slightly unsettling!👍
Democracy was invented by polytheists. Monotheists prefer monarchic structures. Hitchens had a great quote about that...
Religious persecution will actually escalate wildly under the Christian nationalist paradigm. And that includes some forms of Christianity
"America is a Christian Nation!"
Uhm, which one?
Judaeo Christian Islamic Hindu Mormon Buddhist Jain ....... Unicorn, Bigfoot Nation!!
Christianity has always marched lockstep with fascism.
@@Conn30Mtenor
It’s a very fine distinct line not to cross.
Watch "The Family" on Netflix. It explains a lot.
Join FFRF! I'm glad I did. And make a donation. Any amount will do. Thanks!
This so informative. Thanks. I want to send this to an evangelical, FOX Newsy cousin since in a previous discussion (argument) she asked me, “What is Christian Nationalism?” She never heard of it. I've read Siedel's book on the myth. But she's old and would never change her views. It only stirs defensiveness in both of us and anger, bad blood with Christmas-visit relatives and not much additionally questioning what she believes. But I do want her to know how I think, how I come to my sinful opinions. I wrote down the answer (soft rant) including the link to this and put it in my journal as if writing to her, but I probably won't send it to her. Unfortunately, it's that kind of fear of an unwanted kerfuffle that keeps many conscientious atheists quiet and allowed/allows Christianity in America and this violence-prone ideology to take hold. It's a catch-22 for many of us, I'm sure, and unhealthy for our formally great country.
The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born.
- Mark Twain, a Biography
I am definitely buying this book!
Here's something I posted last night on Rationality Rules' "community" page, thought you'd be interested. I've edited this a bit to show that it isn't totally new. Anyway, here it is:
"Here's some good news. Watching my local Nows bulletin on Station NBN-Newcastle(Australia),(last night, 24th August, 2020), I saw a report that the Newcastle branch of the New South Wales Teachers' Federation have instigated a campaign to eliminate religious lessons(referred to as "scripture") from NSW primary schools, hopefully this will also include high schools. The federation claims that "scripture" lessons are cutting into the time teachers have to teach their classes. Whatever the reasoning behind it, I wholeheartedly applaud the Newcastle branch of the NSW Teachers' Federation and hope this goes Australia-wide. Religion has NO value whatsoever and should have ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE in our educational institutions from Kindergarten right through to Universities and Colleges. Schools are for education, NOT BRAINWASHING!"
I thought I'd share this with you at FFRF as it seems you are striving for something similar in America.
Unfortunately the United States is going in the opposite direction.
Christians here feel oppressed if they don’t have complete control of the society and can’t base laws on their religious beliefs
best sign, you nailed it:
The usual trolls do not even dare, to touch the commends thread.
A public understanding of the game they play, is what REALLY freaks them out.
I just want to say TY for all the hard work this foundation does. We need you guys now more than ever. Thxs again.
Imagine, if you will, a planet inhabited by semi-civilized presumptuous creatures which, by their own disposition, harbor more than enough deadly sophisticated weaponry to destroy competing fellow creatures many times over; yet lack the will, foresight, and common purpose in fending off existential threat from a very simple form of life, a primordial unpresuming unconscious minuscule creature also inhabiting such planet. You have just entered The Twilight Zone.
Yes. That existential threat isn't coming from SARS-Cov-2 though. Sure, it's deadly to a small percentage, makes a bigger percentage very sick, and gives an even bigger percentage long-term serious health consequences. As pandemics go, this one isn't too bad. But, climate change ensures that we'll have more novel pathogens, and antibiotic resistance ensures the return of old pathogens. For instance, note that the Black Death (30-60% fatal) killed 75-200million in Europe in the 13th century.
There were numbskulls in the 13th century who thought it was witchcraft, people not praying enough, people harboring cats, and other superstitions that caused plague. Of course, in regards to the cats, the opposite was true: Cats kill rats which carry fleas that harbor Yersinia pestis (plague bacteria). People in the 21st century are deliberately as ignorant as those in the 13th century were, and it will get similar results.
I think the Christian-Fascism connection is because of "submission to authority", too. That is: they submit to God, they submit to their pastor, they submit to their parents. Why wouldn't they then also submit to their government?
Someone should make a group Christians aginst Christian nationalist!
I'm so down for a "Christian deconstructing and reconstructing" group
The group “Christians Against Christian Nationalism” has been around at least since 2019.
Good point
There already is a Christians against Christian nationalism organization
There already is one, and Andrew Seidel and FFRF already work with them…
This is a terrific conversation. I was reminded of the history of other political ideologies and where that typically goes.
Most engaging and informative. Thanks.
Check out American Fascists by Chris Hedges. It also discusses Christian nationalism. It was written in 2007 but it is eerily spot on about what is happening today.
Hey FFRF, thanks for the video. It would be very helpful if you could put all books mentioned in the video in the video description. Thanks and cheers!🎉
Fascinating, frightening data. Knowledge is power. Thanks for sharing this conversation.
It's only power if we act on it
One of my favorite shows!
'Well that hit the nail on the head' said Jesus Christ son of a carpenter. 10.32.
An extremely important convo!
Such a good discussion, thankyou for this
For examples of what they are talking about, see Glenn Beck’s Blaze media and it’s associated hosts Twitter streams. Warning: Disturbing content.
This was a great one; much enjoyed. The distinction of this type of 'Christian' was enlightening. My copy of the book is due tomorrow. I've had Andrew's for a while now. Fascinating, but not 'light reading', LOL.
Thank you for bring this to my attention. Very, very interesting discussion. I guess that's what I miss the most, we used to have discussions!
Love this discourse! Only further cements my goal of studying sociology and eventually becoming a social worker.
So informative...great interview, provocative questions, succinct answers
Now the conspiracy theories makes sense! In Christianity, you are gods child and anyone not of your type of Christianity is constantly scheming to do you harm!
I'm a zero and can't understand why everyone isn't
Super important that we contain to speak up and have these discussions!
In response to your question at 10:00 into the video, listen to Jerry DeWitt's "Rise of the Ameri-God"
A good book to dovetail with this one is Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez. Basically she shows how the Christian nationalism we see today has a long history in America and didn't just start when Obama was elected. - Sincerely, a Christian who really appreciated this discussion.
I am lucky by default because I live in Canada . The churches here have alot of empty pews. The schools don't teach creationism only evolution but private schools do teach creationism. I only had two Jehovahs witnesses at my door in the last twenty years . There isn't any christian radio here . I hope that we can spread the athiesm down your way brother .
Please do!
So is there a questionnaire out there somewhere that i can answer that will tell me what my ideology is based on my Social, political and religious etc ... answers ?
At once a very important and very distressing discussion. There are a whole lot of citizens that strongly favor a Christian theocracy. Maybe, for them, a monarchy would be an acceptable substitute, as long as the monarch was a aggressive fundy?
Yes, and they pretend that monarch would rule with THEIR brand of Christianity. With 32,000 denominations... I have news for these people assuming they'd come out on top in this autocratic theocracy.
And they have the audacity to be offended when you call them the American Taliban.
This conversation was a great tool to illustrate some of the shifts I’ve been seeing, chiefly the non-religious Christian nationalist.
Very good conversation👌🏾
I was not ready for that intro track lmao
I am a Christian theist and I abhore, hate and despise Christian nationalism which I don't call Christian nationalism but evangelo-fascism - much more accurate
When the people came to make Jesus king he actually ran away....
I support FFRF - For their focus on human well being including freedom and truth.
"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy" 😂🤣
Forget a dpg whistle. It's more like the Nostromo's self destruct system being activated.
thank you!!!!!! for everything you do
This interview was informative & illuminating. Unfortunately, the data confirms my suspicions & fears regarding a portion of my fellow citizens.
I've been shocked & disappointed by the beliefs & desires of those closest to me. Frankly, it is increasingly difficult to keep despair at bay.
Smart show.
There's a book out, " White to long ". It details the skewed gospel of white supremacy going back to the civil war. A friend of mine said the revolutionary war wasn't so much about the stated issues of illegal taxation, but that slavery had been abolished in Great Britton. My own experience with nationalism was that it was foundational in every church I attended. Pamphlets from Focus on the family and an emphasis on republican politics were present. I quickly realized that the churches were preaching a false doctrine that embraced the idolatry of politics. Of course, whenever I give a Christian witness, I'm often confronted with these iniquities. It's very hard to explain that this is not Christianity.
Very informative about radical Christianity
Mr. Perry, my condolences to your co-author in Bowling Green. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the many victims, both imaginary and otherwise, that had to suffer during the Bowling Green Massacre.
Really enjoyed, best explanation I've heard
Are there any studies on who the Christian nationalism ambassadors are in rural Central California: Bakersfield; Santa Maria; San Luis Obispo; Salinas; Modesto; Redding; Gold Country counties?
It's nice to see sociology being used in a way that isn't the usual neutral (i.e. ineffectual) way.
It's interesting that in America there is a deep connection between Free market Capitalism and a general idea of Christian nationalism! Primarily Anarcho/Libertarianism Capitalism! A strange hybrid of almost extreme individualism,and Christianity! Underlying this is a resentment of the poor and egoism,which is opposed to Historical Christian ideas! I believe Chris Hedges has pointed this out!
Probably grew out of the Puritans who were later colonists who were very wealthy and super judgemental. Stuff like he who does not work shall not eat. Puritan towns usually had a workhouse where the poor had to stay and work for meager food and shelter
With RGB's passing, the last 5 minutes of this video are scary. The theoretical threat has realized itself.
Is there any way we could see this christian nationalism test? My parents sound like they could align on this, and I am curious to put them through it.
well-thought-out
Watching this in Feb 2021, and I just heard the line about "a few more judicial victories". I went to google to remind myself when RGB died. It was Sept 18, about a month after this episode was published.
I wish you would include links to the books you mention. It would save us from having to go search for them.
Great work!
What surprises me a little is that Prof. Perry suggests that this became a topic in 2016. Those of us who remember the 70s and 80s will remember that this stuff has been gaining traction palpably since the early 70s at the very latest. To name only one example where this became obvious; if you were involved in women's rights or LGBTIQ* activism for example at the time, some of your most vociferous and aggressive opponents were people like Anita Bryant and Phyllis Schlafly who were spinning the rhetoric of the John Birch Society and other radical Right think tanks. This stuff really took off and gained bourgeois respectability in 1980 after the election of Ronald Reagan. There has been nothing sudden about the rise of what has come to be referred to as "Christian Nationalism". (Nor have analysts on the Left ever ceased to point out Christian Nationalism's echos of various historical manifestations of Fascism.)
You need a well produced documentary to get these messages out there and one that works with pastors who understand both these dynamics and know what will speak to those in their congregations. Speaking as a Christian sickened by Trump.
I like how the guest (Samuel Perry) keeps peppering in the fact that this isn't just Christian Nationalism doing these things in this country, but it is indeed *White* Christian Nationalism.
Brilliant 🎯 Thank you.
I look forward to reading this book. The FFRF is the wall between state and church.
#BeHumanistForGodlessSakes 💞🔬🔭💫
Well done!
I would have liked them to leave the sources for this in the description box for easy fact checking. What you say makes sense and I nodded a lot, but I still would love to see some of the studies myself
That's why I think blind people have a edge on humanity it doesn't matter what colour people are or what they look like all that matters is how they come across the way all people should
Loved your program. Very informative, and I think the research is almost beyond argument. BTW I'm Jewish, I believe in Jesus, many of my friends and people I know from church, etc. do fit into Christian nationalism. It's distressing, but I just stick to facts and I believe in America as "free from religion", at least in any official sense. Bravo!
Since we are in 2021, how has Christian Nationalism in terms of data collected changed with Trump losing the election and subsequent loss of Majority Rule by the GOP. What does FFRF think about this issue today? Is the situation any better, worse or about as appallingly the same???? I'd love to see an updated video on this subject of Christian Nationalism/theocratic Fascism? Excellent discussion. Very germane today in May 2021.
I’m an atheist. Will I burn in hell? I think I am. Guess I’ll be roasting marshmallows with Satan over the burning enemies of god.
If Jesus returned today, and could be crucified again, it will be the ppl who talk the most about Jesus, who will assassinate him, for trying to disrupt their theology.
Those checks and balances are being tested everyday. Ain’t that the truth.
11:08 - i think the most important point here for those christian's caught up in this christian nationalism is the comment on political identity. He says, " more and more, young people considering considering christianity think,' if [this political identity] is what i will need to espouse and tie myself to by becoming a christian, then, NO THANKS'.
I've been joining a lot of religious right posts supporting trump here on youtube trying to warn against this very fact. But, alas, they are so ingrained in this line of thinking that they cannot see it. They will simply tell you they are basing their view on scripture, and will use all sort of situational ethics to tell you why they support their view.
So, good conversation here.
I hope it somehow gets the message across to the right group of people who can be stretched by it and doesn't just create a reason for non Christians to practice discrimination or bigotry against these so called "christian nationalists".
40:23
66.6% the statistic of the beast!
L.O.L.!
Mississipi has a perfectly good state motto. But they didn't go with that one.
Where can I find the test that determines the xtian nationalist index score?
Yippee! Fewer Christian Nationalists!
Is their assessment anywhere online? I want to know if my conservative grandparents tainted me in anyway. I like to think of myself as a rejecter.
What chapter or verse, in the Bible speaks about, America? I wonder, does any one else ask people about the father of the letter, Jj? Or ask or mention how pyramids off coast of Cuba , Mexico"s pyramids, China's pyramid are not in Bible. Yet the pattern they are aligned in, match. And match pyramids mentioned in 📓 ?
I'm kinda grateful that the Muslims in my country aren't as radical and stubborn as the Christians in America. Some of Muslims here are all talk but no action when they expressed about being 'prosecuted' for not being able to go to mosques for prayers. Nowadays we're allowed to go to mosques after cases are back to normal, of course following social distancing.
FFRF and Andrew appear much better, more alive and intellectually stimulating, on these Zoom interviews instead of sitting in that crap “studio.” Hope you keep using this platform and stay out of the studio, even for inside chats. You’re better than your little 1970’s studio.
Y'all should listen to Voltaire's song God Thinks. That sums it up what you are discussing.
7:58 - the crux of this subject : Christian Nationalism is not the same as being Christian. Instead, its, as stated, "political theology that masquerades as religion; it uses christian language to disguise political designs".
I've been trying to think of a way to describe this ethnocentric philosophy, and this video has hit the nail on the head. (Although i'd disagree "disguise" is the right word. I submit its more accurate to simply say the language enables the political affirmations.)
What i don't know is if the authors are espousing that there's an sort of *sinister grand design* behind this...like a main christian nationalist group that came up with the ideas, depending on the naivety of the laity to adopt it 'simply as good followers' the way believers adopted whatever the church told them in the dark ages because they couldn't read.
i don't believe there is a grand design at the top trying to create this sub-culture of christianity. I think, over time it just it transformed into this without a doubt...almost by natural result of a culture of "respecting the church leaders" - usually without questioning. (No argument from me if you'd like to disagree. And today, it's at it's worst.
That we are here, is a fact. That it's having an adverse impact on the country's health is a fact. That it's a driving force behind a large percentage of the incumbent president's base, is a fact.