Saints Row 2's storytelling feels unique and engaging to this day. Despite its graphics - that seemingly came from a PS2 - the cinematography, writing, and voice acting is just stellar, and your point about both Vogel and the Boss goes a long way to explain why this game has stuck with me all these years later.
Raycevick!!! I think I remember you shouting out to Lorerunner a couple times. Saints Row 2 is almost poetic in its depiction of, as Lore put it, "The Cycle of Violence." The Boss is a great character because he puts himself and a bunch of people through severe trauma, kills so, so many people, ruins lives, and in the end the Boss is still just a child playing at being a big shot. Julius calls him out on his pettiness and the Boss proves Julius right seven-fold by killing him out of spite, and then to make it better Dex escapes the Boss's revenge and in a totally perfect in-character move the Boss just settles for killing everyone even remotely associated with Dex but is left mostly unsatisfied. This is a fantastic example of a flawed character done well, and an egotistical villain portrayed in an authentic and grounded (for a video game) manner.
Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I love this game in particular. It has a sense of grounded realism story-wise but in terms of gameplay it's ridiculous so as to keep a tonal balance.
To your credit, with regards to your examination of the Ronin, Kazuo's final moments really exemplify what you explained. "You can't beat me." "I know, I'm going to cheat."
I was thinking the same thing. Getting 20 out of 80 in a situation like that, will still offer good money. But the Boss literally turns it down because of his big ego
To be fair their ego is to a degree well placed, what other mf can destroy all rival gangs and a government agency, effectively having total control over a city after being in a 5 year coma? the boss is a monster.
This game is fantastic when played co-op, I played it in middle school with my then best friend (now my husband) and it just makes the whole experience more enjoyable. We recently replayed it and it’s every bit as fun to this day. I’d say it’s probably one of my favorite games of all time.
I really enjoyed this analysis on the characters and story, even the tangential connections to other lore. I wasn't aware (or forgot) Ultor was shared between the two IP's. Interesting stuff.
GTA 4 being the most depressing thing, yup. I walked away after the park assassination mission and it has sat on my self ever since. While I think SR cornered the market on wacky near supervillian levels of goofy, any future GTA games might want to dip at least a toe back into those waters.
Yeah, absolutely, obviously as a result of people's criticisms of GTA IV's 'boringness' and clunky (yet realistic) driving controls. You can definitely feel a sort of mild bipolar quality to V as it tries to balance a semi-serious story with large-scale fun and gameplay. It felt like it didn't exactly know what it wanted to be or where it wanted to go with the story and ended in a way I felt was narratively anticlimactic. You have one mission where you're going around killing all the drug dealers in the area and blowing everything up which was really fun, if irrelevant to the overall plot, then a few missions later you're doing menial labor at a harbor to be able to take pictures of a cargo ship. That being said, GTA V is how I would likely design a game: focusing on gameplay first and letting story take a backseat (which is probably not a popular viewpoint of Lore's audience, but that just makes a good opportunity for discussion) unless it's story-driven like GTA V. It's a huge challenge for developers to balance gameplay and story in a way that makes it believable and compelling while remaining fun and non-constraining. Because of that, I feel it's often a good idea to focus on one over the other which I believe GTA IV achieved. I think GTA V should have focused even more on the gameplay than it did since the story didn't feel greatly satisfying to me.
To be honest, same. I loved IV, its my favorite especially in terms of story and I can agree with many of the counterpoints people say about the game. Yes, this was a brilliant game and it was also indeed the most heartbreaking; but that chaos I once associated it with is something I stopped doing there in that game despite it having fun physics and combat is because I was attached to the character I was playing as. Niko was clearly and totally devastated in the end. And from that time on, I really didn't want to cause anything bad anymore. Even in V with people like Michael and Franklin I didn't feel inclined to doing crimes because of them clearly wanting to grow out of it in the end. Hell, Michael was begged to stop in the end by his own family. I don't usually play as Trevor btw. Dunno? Maybe its because in the HD universe I noticed they made them sympathetic to an extent? I love them as characters but thinking about them again after revisiting their prescence in the GTA saga, is that they may have more character, but those proper establishments (especially with their views on where they draw a line on violence) could cause a player to make them stop doing the one thing that is mainly associated with the series: mayhem.
I've played all the Saints and hell, even Agents of Mayhem. SR1 is a lot more down to earth and has some dark moments, too. I love SR2 because it's as close to my perfect game: Joker: the Game as I'm going to get. At least for now.
I remember the original SR, it was great, like a more personality driven GTA... then came two... and three and I wish I could have forgotten ever having heard of the original.
Gosh I love this game so much. Have you any interest in Agents of Mayhem? I heard it was a spin off to the SR series and was wondering if you were going to explore that in the future.
I agree with you a lot with your points. The Samedi stuff were kinda "Ehh" and the Ronin seem to be one of the better factions to face. What I like about SR2 is not just the stuff everyone had already stated, but also because Gat is actually a big part of the story and SR4 Gat was like something you get hyped up for for years, and after you get it, soon after you're like "what now?" The story doesn't know what to do with Gat in 4 and he kinda was... There. Just at the sidelines. And it was disappointing. I find it hilarious how he becomes playable in GOoH.
Hey man I've been a big fan of yours for years now, and I'm surprised you're fan of saints row 2 as well! On an unrelated note, I'm curious if you've ever read berserk or seen the 1997 anime.
Saints Row 2's storytelling feels unique and engaging to this day. Despite its graphics - that seemingly came from a PS2 - the cinematography, writing, and voice acting is just stellar, and your point about both Vogel and the Boss goes a long way to explain why this game has stuck with me all these years later.
Raycevick!!! I think I remember you shouting out to Lorerunner a couple times. Saints Row 2 is almost poetic in its depiction of, as Lore put it, "The Cycle of Violence." The Boss is a great character because he puts himself and a bunch of people through severe trauma, kills so, so many people, ruins lives, and in the end the Boss is still just a child playing at being a big shot. Julius calls him out on his pettiness and the Boss proves Julius right seven-fold by killing him out of spite, and then to make it better Dex escapes the Boss's revenge and in a totally perfect in-character move the Boss just settles for killing everyone even remotely associated with Dex but is left mostly unsatisfied. This is a fantastic example of a flawed character done well, and an egotistical villain portrayed in an authentic and grounded (for a video game) manner.
Raycevick i love the game
Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I love this game in particular. It has a sense of grounded realism story-wise but in terms of gameplay it's ridiculous so as to keep a tonal balance.
the textures are not that great, but the characters look good, also the shadows and lightning, to put it more precisely, for a 2008 game
To your credit, with regards to your examination of the Ronin, Kazuo's final moments really exemplify what you explained.
"You can't beat me."
"I know, I'm going to cheat."
I think what the regular saints homies say to you occasionally encapsulates the boss's mentality regarding loyalty perfectly: "Blood in, blood out".
Absolute banger of a video discussing the nuances and intricacies of sr2 that I thought only I noticed.
Two was my favorite. 3 got too ridiculous imo. I also agree and perfer this shaundi. British boss is the best btw.
Hell yeah, best Saints Row by far.. I still remember the secret base in the hills and smoking out of light bulbs.. Haha.
You know.... Before SR3 this reminds me how much Volition cared
I was thinking the same thing. Getting 20 out of 80 in a situation like that, will still offer good money. But the Boss literally turns it down because of his big ego
To be fair their ego is to a degree well placed, what other mf can destroy all rival gangs and a government agency, effectively having total control over a city after being in a 5 year coma? the boss is a monster.
This game is fantastic when played co-op, I played it in middle school with my then best friend (now my husband) and it just makes the whole experience more enjoyable. We recently replayed it and it’s every bit as fun to this day. I’d say it’s probably one of my favorite games of all time.
I really enjoyed this analysis on the characters and story, even the tangential connections to other lore. I wasn't aware (or forgot) Ultor was shared between the two IP's. Interesting stuff.
GTA 4 being the most depressing thing, yup. I walked away after the park assassination mission and it has sat on my self ever since. While I think SR cornered the market on wacky near supervillian levels of goofy, any future GTA games might want to dip at least a toe back into those waters.
Yeah, absolutely, obviously as a result of people's criticisms of GTA IV's 'boringness' and clunky (yet realistic) driving controls. You can definitely feel a sort of mild bipolar quality to V as it tries to balance a semi-serious story with large-scale fun and gameplay. It felt like it didn't exactly know what it wanted to be or where it wanted to go with the story and ended in a way I felt was narratively anticlimactic. You have one mission where you're going around killing all the drug dealers in the area and blowing everything up which was really fun, if irrelevant to the overall plot, then a few missions later you're doing menial labor at a harbor to be able to take pictures of a cargo ship. That being said, GTA V is how I would likely design a game: focusing on gameplay first and letting story take a backseat (which is probably not a popular viewpoint of Lore's audience, but that just makes a good opportunity for discussion) unless it's story-driven like GTA V. It's a huge challenge for developers to balance gameplay and story in a way that makes it believable and compelling while remaining fun and non-constraining. Because of that, I feel it's often a good idea to focus on one over the other which I believe GTA IV achieved. I think GTA V should have focused even more on the gameplay than it did since the story didn't feel greatly satisfying to me.
To be honest, same. I loved IV, its my favorite especially in terms of story and I can agree with many of the counterpoints people say about the game. Yes, this was a brilliant game and it was also indeed the most heartbreaking; but that chaos I once associated it with is something I stopped doing there in that game despite it having fun physics and combat is because I was attached to the character I was playing as. Niko was clearly and totally devastated in the end. And from that time on, I really didn't want to cause anything bad anymore. Even in V with people like Michael and Franklin I didn't feel inclined to doing crimes because of them clearly wanting to grow out of it in the end. Hell, Michael was begged to stop in the end by his own family.
I don't usually play as Trevor btw. Dunno? Maybe its because in the HD universe I noticed they made them sympathetic to an extent? I love them as characters but thinking about them again after revisiting their prescence in the GTA saga, is that they may have more character, but those proper establishments (especially with their views on where they draw a line on violence) could cause a player to make them stop doing the one thing that is mainly associated with the series: mayhem.
Red Faction doesn' t fit anymore becouse Volition doesn't own the rigths for that series anymore.
Since you've played GTA and Saints Row, you should check out Sleeping Dogs.
Underrated game
Yes! I'm trying it too right now after I'm finishing this game
I've played all the Saints and hell, even Agents of Mayhem. SR1 is a lot more down to earth and has some dark moments, too. I love SR2 because it's as close to my perfect game: Joker: the Game as I'm going to get. At least for now.
I remember the original SR, it was great, like a more personality driven GTA... then came two... and three and I wish I could have forgotten ever having heard of the original.
Best one in the series in my opinion. SR4 has grown on me but only if I forget it's a saints row game and just pretend it's a random super hero game
Holy shitballs Batman, YES!
i`m about 95% sure kingping in AoM is pierce without the boss being around.
Gosh I love this game so much. Have you any interest in Agents of Mayhem? I heard it was a spin off to the SR series and was wondering if you were going to explore that in the future.
I agree with you a lot with your points. The Samedi stuff were kinda "Ehh" and the Ronin seem to be one of the better factions to face. What I like about SR2 is not just the stuff everyone had already stated, but also because Gat is actually a big part of the story and SR4 Gat was like something you get hyped up for for years, and after you get it, soon after you're like "what now?" The story doesn't know what to do with Gat in 4 and he kinda was... There. Just at the sidelines. And it was disappointing. I find it hilarious how he becomes playable in GOoH.
Jukeboxes we're old when I was a kid. I had the discman that wouldn't fit in my pocket.
Saints how 2 & 4 are 2 of the best open world games around. Agents of mayhem was a mistake...
4 was a good callback to 1 and 2. 3 was a tragedy even Daniel Dae Kim left that project only to come back to 4.
Hey man I've been a big fan of yours for years now, and I'm surprised you're fan of saints row 2 as well! On an unrelated note, I'm curious if you've ever read berserk or seen the 1997 anime.
1:01 wrong. As soon as that statement left his mouth everything else effectively loss validity.
3 and 4 please.
I think saints row 3 deserves a lamentation
Laura Bailey is THE boss.
Teeny Tiny Asakura I find the russian one is a little more entertaining.
Isn't the city called "Steelport"?
stanzelot Stillwater in 1 and 2, Steelport in 3 and 4.
The original city was StilWater, in SR3 the series was moved to a new city Steelport
stillwater
Stilwater with one "L."
Meh never liked it and always thought it was a GTA clone.
Not even close.
>using the term "GTA Clone" in this day and age
In 2019 for real, lmfao
Lame people