I suspect the ability to buy everything on finance these days has allowed people to ‘afford’ more expensive bikes. Seems the be the same in the car industry.
If you've ever compared the price of Motocross handguards with MTB handguards you KNOW we're being ripped off . Same goes for "Magura Blood" vs regular mineral oil from the auto parts store.
Bike prices have far outweighed inflation. I bought a Marin Team DH in 2008, for £2500, reduced from £3000 so a cracking deal at the time. It was as good as you could get, Hope discs, Manitou X-Vert Ti carbon legged titanium spring forks, fully adjustable, fully adjustable coil. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator that's £5640 now. In no way is that the top end of a major brand bike now.
And before that I paid £1100 for a Spesh Stumpjumper M2 FS. I know high end hardtails are rare now, but as you pointed out, it's not full suspension making the bikes expensive because road bikes too.
Good bikes have always been expensive. My 2013 Stumpjumper Elite FSR 29er alloy was $4200 from a bike shop. I just bought a 2023 Rocky Mountain Instinct C30 for $2900 and delivered to my door. Sure that was a COVID overstock price, but the original MSRP in early 2023 was $4700. That's expensive, but the bike is so much more advanced in design, components, and a carbon frame. I think the Industry has had price hikes and falls as new R&D become standard... disc brakes for instance. Overall, I think prices have been consistently high for 20 years. Some bikes are way overdesigned. We are not all pros w mechanics and sponsors to service expensive rigs.
Trickle down tech: 2023 GX Transmission build £5k Trickle down to S1000. 2024 S1000 Transmission build £5k, GX Transmission build £6K I’m sure everyone appreciates trickle down tech. Ahem SRAM SX. Never seen a good comment about it.
When I started riding over 25 years ago, economies of scale used to be a popular argument for the high price of bikes...especially when there were still a sizeable amount of bikes handmade in USA and UK. With the participation rate of MTBing higher than ever and most bikes being manufactured in the Far East, this is no longer a valid argument. In fact, MTBing is now more popular than MX by number of participants annually. So the question is: How is MTBing so expensive compared to MX? Someone needs to figure it out.
Spending £600 pounds on a bike 25 years ago got you rim brakes, 3 x 8 gears, an elastomer fork with 80 -100mm travel and if you were lucky a suspension seatpost 😅. When you add inflation adjustment thats around £1100 today. That would easily get something like a Merida Big Trail 400 with a 140mm tapered air fork, slack geometry 1 x 10 drivetrain, disc brakes, and a dropper post. I think i know which one i would choose if they were next to each other in a shot today😂
Financing is a trap many get into I just look at my riding buddies who always have the newest bike and monthly payments 😂🤣😛 Actual interest rates makes this nonsense even more nonsensical... Kids with buying power are the worst 😂 Ebikes have no reason to be pricier than a 250 cc dirtbike. Another nonsense...
@@JamieDarlowMBR Demand is obviously up because MTB participation rate is higher than it has ever been, but supply is also higher than ever too...this is the first time in history manufacturers have models from two years ago still sitting in warehouses that they can't get rid of because the pandemic bubble burst. The selection today is enormous, both by number of retailers and number of manufacturers. In the 90's there were roughly a dozen brands if you wanted to buy a mountain bike. You basically had whatever brands the three or four local bike shops around you sold and then a couple catalogue mail order companies. You definitely saw preference to certain bikes in different regions because that was all people were able to get.
@@MBRmagazine Yeah I really wanted to get more into this in the video, as I'm into geeking out about finance and inflation! But it's not really the right channel for it! Keeping the measured inflation rate low is in the treasury's interests as lots of its expenditures are based on it.
I had 3K in my old GT STS around 2000…3,000 in 2000 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $5,479.79 today, an increase of $2,479.79 over 24 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate ... It’s not much of a stretch to say the bike was crap compared to today’s bike. PS The frame alone, retail price new was $2,000. I got mine 2 years later for $1,100. I ran into a guy with the same frame, with massive upgrades compared to mine, dude’s bike had over 4K in it. …but then I did use a credit card, which I cut up and paid off as quickly as possible. Are bike company’s ripping us off ? I don’t think so. It’s called capitalism. And there’s inflation that comes and goes. Any brand will price according to what the market will bare.. I doubt there are CEO multi-millionaires in the bike biz…
You touched briefly on performance improvements….Research and Development costs play a significant role here. Also, lingering supply chain issues from the pandemic remain. We recently got some great deals on a couple of demo/lightly used SJ EVOs (thanks to the release of the new gen 15), however; we took it in the teeth selling the bikes we bought a couple of years ago.
Absolutely. As bikes have become more sophisticated, r&d costs have spiralled. Also the costs of testing bikes to meet new standards. And the costs of improving warranties.
There are other factors. Cycle to work scheme seemed to rapidly push mid-range bikes up to around £1K. Regardless of inflation, people's purchasing power has reduced in real terms over the last decade or so. Then there are comparisons with other ways you could spend your money. The performance and capabilities of mobile phones and pretty much any other electronics has vastly outpaced that of bikes over the last 30 years with prices generally remaining the same or even reducing. Bikes also look expensive when compared with other modes of travel and their capabilities - whether electric scooter or motorbike.
Good content ! I would like to say that some of the lower end technology ( shimano deore , rock shox forks ) seem to perform really well now considering. I think lower end bikes ride so much better and can’t see the point of high end kit for the average rider . Just my opinion
I ride emtb. I usually go for slx or gx drivetrain. Code r brakes, then upgrade suspension with better air chamber and damper. Alloy doesn't bother me a bit. The type of material the frame is made of won't make me a better rider. I would say that's around a 5 to 7 thousand dollar bike.
Yes, they do. Listen to "How much does it REALLY cost to run a downhill team?" where Bernard Kerr says how much waste is in (some) racing teams expenses. Guess where the money comes from. And this is just the waste from the racing teams. Imagine the rest.
Oversupply of bikes? I was trying to acquire a Canyon Roadlite 7 (L) and they have none available. Upon querying why there was none available, they told me they were experiencing a shortage of parts to make these bikes.
75% of peoples expectations have gone through the roof these past 40 years. Few want a simple plain functional bike any more. Seems like most people are addicted to specs/ upgrades and accessories. Biking is so much more a fashion statement a look at me buzz .
Core 5 comes with the electronic drive train. I’m going out on a limb and assuming it didn’t exist back then. It’s a new category. The spec has changed. More premium shit to justify a higher spend. The comparison needs to be based on the old spec vs new spec. The core 3 is probably equivalent.
I suspect the ability to buy everything on finance these days has allowed people to ‘afford’ more expensive bikes. Seems the be the same in the car industry.
very good point.
Add this to heavy depreciation, soft used market for sellers and higher interest rates you got a recipe for disaster...
That's the primary driver
Bike leasing is on the way.
If you've ever compared the price of Motocross handguards with MTB handguards you KNOW we're being ripped off . Same goes for "Magura Blood" vs regular mineral oil from the auto parts store.
This can be applied most, but not all "bike specific" products
Whenever I dealt with MX riders wanting to get into MTB, they would freakout at the prices because it didn't make sense.
Bike prices have far outweighed inflation. I bought a Marin Team DH in 2008, for £2500, reduced from £3000 so a cracking deal at the time.
It was as good as you could get, Hope discs, Manitou X-Vert Ti carbon legged titanium spring forks, fully adjustable, fully adjustable coil.
According to the Bank of England inflation calculator that's £5640 now. In no way is that the top end of a major brand bike now.
And before that I paid £1100 for a Spesh Stumpjumper M2 FS. I know high end hardtails are rare now, but as you pointed out, it's not full suspension making the bikes expensive because road bikes too.
Good bikes have always been expensive. My 2013 Stumpjumper Elite FSR 29er alloy was $4200 from a bike shop. I just bought a 2023 Rocky Mountain Instinct C30 for $2900 and delivered to my door. Sure that was a COVID overstock price, but the original MSRP in early 2023 was $4700. That's expensive, but the bike is so much more advanced in design, components, and a carbon frame. I think the Industry has had price hikes and falls as new R&D become standard... disc brakes for instance. Overall, I think prices have been consistently high for 20 years. Some bikes are way overdesigned. We are not all pros w mechanics and sponsors to service expensive rigs.
Trickle down tech: 2023 GX Transmission build £5k
Trickle down to S1000. 2024 S1000 Transmission build £5k, GX Transmission build £6K
I’m sure everyone appreciates trickle down tech. Ahem SRAM SX. Never seen a good comment about it.
When I started riding over 25 years ago, economies of scale used to be a popular argument for the high price of bikes...especially when there were still a sizeable amount of bikes handmade in USA and UK. With the participation rate of MTBing higher than ever and most bikes being manufactured in the Far East, this is no longer a valid argument. In fact, MTBing is now more popular than MX by number of participants annually. So the question is: How is MTBing so expensive compared to MX? Someone needs to figure it out.
Spending £600 pounds on a bike 25 years ago got you rim brakes, 3 x 8 gears, an elastomer fork with 80 -100mm travel and if you were lucky a suspension seatpost 😅. When you add inflation adjustment thats around £1100 today. That would easily get something like a Merida Big Trail 400 with a 140mm tapered air fork, slack geometry 1 x 10 drivetrain, disc brakes, and a dropper post. I think i know which one i would choose if they were next to each other in a shot today😂
💯
Financing is a trap many get into I just look at my riding buddies who always have the newest bike and monthly payments 😂🤣😛
Actual interest rates makes this nonsense even more nonsensical... Kids with buying power are the worst 😂
Ebikes have no reason to be pricier than a 250 cc dirtbike. Another nonsense...
Since volume and capacity or manufacturing was much lower in the 1990's prices should have gone down.
Only if you assume demand hasn't changed.
@@JamieDarlowMBR Demand is obviously up because MTB participation rate is higher than it has ever been, but supply is also higher than ever too...this is the first time in history manufacturers have models from two years ago still sitting in warehouses that they can't get rid of because the pandemic bubble burst. The selection today is enormous, both by number of retailers and number of manufacturers. In the 90's there were roughly a dozen brands if you wanted to buy a mountain bike. You basically had whatever brands the three or four local bike shops around you sold and then a couple catalogue mail order companies. You definitely saw preference to certain bikes in different regions because that was all people were able to get.
@@cup_and_cone Yep, that's my point. Demand HAS changed and therefore you can't just assume prices should fall because supply has increased.
The great thing about the used MTB market is its easy to find used bikes in perfect condition a few years old for half price
Inflation calculation is flawed. Many products out priced inflation
Indeed, and the Bank of England points this out on its own calculator.
@@MBRmagazine Yeah I really wanted to get more into this in the video, as I'm into geeking out about finance and inflation! But it's not really the right channel for it! Keeping the measured inflation rate low is in the treasury's interests as lots of its expenditures are based on it.
I had 3K in my old GT STS around 2000…3,000 in 2000 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $5,479.79 today, an increase of $2,479.79 over 24 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate ...
It’s not much of a stretch to say the bike was crap compared to today’s bike.
PS
The frame alone, retail price new was $2,000. I got mine 2 years later for $1,100.
I ran into a guy with the same frame, with massive upgrades compared to mine, dude’s bike had over 4K in it.
…but then I did use a credit card, which I cut up and paid off as quickly as possible.
Are bike company’s ripping us off ? I don’t think so. It’s called capitalism. And there’s inflation that comes and goes. Any brand will price according to what the market will bare..
I doubt there are CEO multi-millionaires in the bike biz…
There most definitely are, at least for the big brands.
You touched briefly on performance improvements….Research and Development costs play a significant role here. Also, lingering supply chain issues from the pandemic remain. We recently got some great deals on a couple of demo/lightly used SJ EVOs (thanks to the release of the new gen 15), however; we took it in the teeth selling the bikes we bought a couple of years ago.
Absolutely. As bikes have become more sophisticated, r&d costs have spiralled. Also the costs of testing bikes to meet new standards. And the costs of improving warranties.
There are other factors. Cycle to work scheme seemed to rapidly push mid-range bikes up to around £1K. Regardless of inflation, people's purchasing power has reduced in real terms over the last decade or so. Then there are comparisons with other ways you could spend your money. The performance and capabilities of mobile phones and pretty much any other electronics has vastly outpaced that of bikes over the last 30 years with prices generally remaining the same or even reducing. Bikes also look expensive when compared with other modes of travel and their capabilities - whether electric scooter or motorbike.
Good content ! I would like to say that some of the lower end technology ( shimano deore , rock shox forks ) seem to perform really well now considering. I think lower end bikes ride so much better and can’t see the point of high end kit for the average rider . Just my opinion
Yes they are.
Danny's haircut hasn't changed in 30 years. Possibly he is still paying the same to the hair dresser?
Possibly less! 😂
I ride emtb. I usually go for slx or gx drivetrain. Code r brakes, then upgrade suspension with better air chamber and damper. Alloy doesn't bother me a bit. The type of material the frame is made of won't make me a better rider. I would say that's around a 5 to 7 thousand dollar bike.
Yes, they do. Listen to "How much does it REALLY cost to run a downhill team?" where Bernard Kerr says how much waste is in (some) racing teams expenses. Guess where the money comes from. And this is just the waste from the racing teams. Imagine the rest.
Oversupply of bikes? I was trying to acquire a Canyon Roadlite 7 (L) and they have none available. Upon querying why there was none available, they told me they were experiencing a shortage of parts to make these bikes.
75% of peoples expectations have gone through the roof these past 40 years. Few want a simple plain functional bike any more. Seems like most people are addicted to specs/ upgrades and accessories. Biking is so much more a fashion statement a look at me buzz .
Very sober analysis and discussion. I 100% agree with this. It’s not a black or white answer
Thanks!
Yes… yes they are 😭😭
In 1990 or 2000, were these bike components all manufactured in the Far East like bike components are today?
In 1990 the high end stuff was mostly made in US machine shops. Shimano stuff came out of Japan. By 2000 most was coming out of Taiwan.
First YT Jeffsy pro build was 3500 euros… and now?
Core 5 comes with the electronic drive train. I’m going out on a limb and assuming it didn’t exist back then.
It’s a new category. The spec has changed. More premium shit to justify a higher spend.
The comparison needs to be based on the old spec vs new spec. The core 3 is probably equivalent.
BREXIT RULES! Do knock me independence ! Agree with the other mate, all these sales suggest OVERPRICED!