@@ianrenomtb i went from 20 to 40 in renthal fat bars felt so much better but wish i went just a bit higher ive got a nukeproof mega and its a large and i just felt a bit streched on my reach
Went from 25 to 38 and now 50mm and loving them. Still doing a little bit of fine tuning with spacers but I am pretty much at my sweet spot now I think.
Great video Neil. Like the way you clearly laid out your thoughts throughout the test. I see the logic of using higher bars for descending but in my experience they can make climbing more difficult as it lightens the front end too much. Obviously not an issue if all your riding is downhill!
Thank you for this video! I’m 63 yrs old, with a 53 yr Moto/dirt bike background. I recently added mtb to my lifestyle, crazy as it seems at my age. I’ve found the content on your site extremely valuable over the past couple months, as I researched the sport. I picked up a second hand Giant E Trance Pro 29er in late June and took it out a handful of times, on some great trails in South Lake Tahoe. I’m a big guy, 6’2”, 270lbs and after a few days riding, the first thing I thought of, was how much I missed the upright position of my dirt bike, compared to this Emtb. I was riding with my brother and we both talked about adding some height to our bars. Your video, and the story behind the higher bars, has convinced me to test 75mm and 90mm bars. Regards, Steve
i am 6.5 tall and have 50 years of dirt background - riding very wide tyres al the time - long before the get trendy - and know - the mtb rider comming al from xc and rr - thinking of low drag - allways - but look in the last century - our "ancestors" have ridden highriser long ago
awesome enjoy 👍👍good thing about Emtb is it can extend yore riding years wile still keeping you fit , ps please don't get those amazon bars your risking your life 😉😉😂😂
Short bikes, narrow bars, flat bars, steep geo, long cranks, skinny tires- all these vestiges of road bikes in mtbs and here we are in 2024 still realizing that we need to throw what we know from road bikes out the window. And the craziest part about it is that the answer has been right there all along if we just looked at it- motocross and bmx. They figured all this stuff out ages ago- including mixed wheels.
Yes, I come from riding BMX and we went through the low and even narrow bar phase in the late 90s early 2000s. But if you look now, we went from 7 inch rise bars with 26 inch width to 9 inch or higher with 29 inch or so width. Taller riders will even run 10 inch rise bars on their BMX bikes. It makes sense. It's less effort to pull up because your weight is shifted back and your arms are in the ideal power (bend in elbow) to control the front end. When you need to weight the front end, you actually have more leverage to do so with taller bars. It all makes perfect sense.
@@dadventuretv2538 I've been wondering since the 90's if mountain bikers have ever seen a motocross motorcycle. Just bizarre that so many think being hunched forward over those flat bars makes sense. Group think kills common sense.
@@ShadLife - the trendy width is as stupid as the trendy low rise. I’ve been riding mtb since the late 80s. Came too late to the high rise bars, but I never went to anything less than shoulder width because I’m averaging 13 mph, FFS.
I’ve had 80mm rise Deity bars for the past couple of years and they have sorted my lower back pain right out. Plus a 5mm rise DMR defy stem. No issues with lower back on 30mile+ rides. They’re great!
All we had was riser bars back in the 90's early 00's. Not a new trend just going back to a one that worked. Always been so much better than the low rise imo. Found 50mm the sweet spot
In one of the podcasts, it was mentioned that Dak runs about 15psi lower in the forks than most other riders too. So maybe soften the forks for the next test
Went from a 35mm rise to a 60 mm rise spank spoon hbar (on same 35mm length stem) this season and I’m absolutely loving it…..(and your back feels so much better after the ride too- added bonus)
I did this on my wife’s mtb - the Spank Spoon high rise bars, which she loves (and her neck/back appreciates). Now I’m the jealous one and need to do the same!
You didn't like 35mm rise?? My stock bars are super flat I can't decide between the 35mm rise or 50mm rise help with back issues on longer rides and more moto feel for jumping and riding wheelies and stuff??
@@MTB_FANATIC99 I think you should start with 35-40mm. I just happened to have a spank 60mm on my ancient jump bike, and figured I'd give it a try and I actually liked it even more than the 35mm. The only instance where it's a real disadvantage is when you really have to stand up and hammer the pedals, i.e. the flat sections of an Enduro race stage - you feel like you just cant get your weight forward and low enough to hammer a sprint. You will also need to push into banked flat corners to get the weight transfer to the front (with a low bar you're already leaning onto the front anyway - with the high bar, you need to compensate for that by bending your elbows more). But for general trail riding, it's wonderfully comfortable and fun.
@jokermtb yeah I think I'm going to go with the spank spoon bars they're the 50 mm I'll be cool at 50 mm rise thanks man I ride mostly around town and do some jumps at the city park jump curves and stuff so that's why I'm going to go with the 50mm 👍🏻👍🏻
I have those exact bars and absolutely love them. One thing ive noticed is being a taller tider (6'_3") the riser bars really helps my back, but more importantly corrects the geo with my longer inseam. My friends who are shorter have their seat basically match their handle bar height when fully extended, but if i use a 50mm or shorter riser bar, then my bars are actually lower than my seat (when seat is fully extended). The higher rise bars corrects that brings me in better balance. Plus i feel safer. Like it is harder to go over the bars. Might have to find a more reputable brand for QC, but so far so good. Thanks for this episode! Nice work!
I’m curious if you ride a XL or L frame. I’ve noticed it’s tricky for manufacturers to create a universal frame sizing especially those who are similar in height with either significantly longer legs or the opposite and have shorter legs and longer arms-torso body ratio types. That and one’s natural flexibility in their hips is not just a matter of being able to touch one’s toes- but it kinda all works together with thigh length, knee over pedal positioning, stem length/riser height and so on. And so much of it may be counterintuitive or confusing for those of us who are familiar to the past bike eras of various geometry trends or particular bike ‘wisdoms’ concerning fitting a bike that may or may not translate or be useful today. In other words, pay particular attention to the numbers of frame geometry and how those measurements are adjusted for a different size - and how they are often not standardized or consistent between the different companies who manufacture bikes- which can make it somewhat challenging or overwhelming to determine not only what size frame or how to setup a bike to fit oneself but also how the results will compare to another person even if similar in height can be significantly different. Moving saddles fore or aft or increasing/decreasing stem length or riser height cannot always result for whatever an individual needs or is trying to accomplish that may end up being a matter of a particular frame size/geometry that potentially a different company does differently that will result in a night and day difference. Or sizing up a frame size is something that might be appropriate as opposed to how many of us older riders are accustomed to the old school road and mountain racing trend based on how a few pros rode a ‘sized’ down frame and that becoming some kind of idea of being faster. Ya know In other words, ya get hip to the actual geometry numbers and angles of your body and frame and make sure you’re getting familiar with how each change of angle, height or length of any given body part of frame and setup will impact one another as a whole. Obviously your body is going to be the one that won’t be adjustable so those numbers and which ones matter most to what has become a rather significant growing focus on expert bike fitting techniques- it’s overwhelming and complicated at first until one can actually focus on how and what sweet spot numbers will fit one’s personal numbers and needs- and how or which bike manufacture and size hits those best. Best as can be without truly needing to get a custom built frame. Fun times
This was so informational Im also a taller rider and have a longer than normal legs so my seat is always way higher than my bars, I think raising my bars is something ill try!
@@ericthedesigner agreed, I'm from the early 2000's era. And I've been saying these modern bikes front ends are way too low. So much so my bike is 20mm out geo spec fork wise, climbs like mess but down is all fun.
I’ve always liked taller handlebars than most riders, currently running 60mm on my trail bike, 80mm on my dj and 50 mm on my fat bike . Im happy to see more and more companies making 50mm+ handlebars with a decent width, ten years ago they were almost impossible to find.
When I swapped the bars on the Trek Marlin 7 I had, it made a huge difference to how much better the bike felt and that was a 50mm rise bar as opposed to the flat bar the bike had originally. It's amazing how much of a difference that it can make. Great video Neil. Always cool watching you blast down hill on a well set up bike.
My hardtail came with 20mm bars. I recently swapped them out for 50mm rise and it has totally transformed how it rides. It's a million % more comfortable to ride now. I am actually tempted to do the same on my enduro even though that is not the best on the steep climbs as it is.
I can't decide between 35mm or 50mm rise I want a higher rise for wheelies and jumping but also for back issues on long rides so 50 mm isn't too upright?? That's probably what I'm going to go with
It’s always interesting to realize how much used to be known, gets forgotten, then gets rediscovered as “new”. My 1986 Specialized Hardrock has a higher stem and bar than MTBs of the past couple decades. Also, it came with shorter cranks than recent bikes for my size. Horribly ironic that I can sustain a higher speed and for longer on my 1986 Hardrock than I can on any MTB I’ve bought since 2013. I will concede that all of my newer bikes brake better and shift faster. So some actual new technologies are clear improvements. But a shame that the human/machine interfacing has degraded to lost understanding of biomechanics. This is not just a bicycling thing. In aviation there was ugly debate from the 1990s into the early 2000s about proper fuel mixture adjustment for piston engines. The latest research, computer modeling, and testing proved lean of peak to be better. Which had been known and in manuals in the 1920s and 30s. Somehow that knowledge was lost by the 1970s. In all endeavors we can do better by not discarding standards from the slide rule era until proving there is a quantifiable reason to do so.
Moto setup is my go to for chunky DH racing , drops are so much easier not much air time anymore at 64 but when I did, much more comfortable in the air. Happy Trails.
6foot height, slightly short steerer tube my 60mm rise bars have been a life saver, plus I don't feel like going otb as soon as the trail steepenes a bit
My stock bars are super flat maybe 10mm rise I can't decide between 35mm or 50mm rise bars for back issues but also more moto feel for jumping and riding wheelies what do you think??
Fascinating! When I used to race in the SDA years ago I switched to Chromag flat bars on my bike and absolutely loved it! Ever since I’ve always used either flat or as low as possible on all my bikes
As a former competitive downhill ski racer I'm surprised it's taken this long for dh mtb to begin exploring this basic concept. Our legs are approximately four times stronger than our arms, so any body position where you are bent over at the waist and leaning on your arms will inherently be weaker than what we call a "stacked" position that takes advantage of the body's skeletal/muscular ability to resist gravity and G-forces.
@@huckfin1598 then move the bottom bracket forward? I'm not a bike designer, just someone who knows proper body position is essential in gravity sports.
@@huckfin1598 Awww, is somebody cranky? (Excuse the pun). I’m always puzzled by people who are seemingly offended by new ideas. Why couldn’t you move the bottom bracket slightly forward in relation to the front and rear wheels? Would that be impossible? Of course not. Would it work? Who knows? That’s what experimentation is all about, which it happens I DO know something about. Eg; Ski designers used the same sidecut for 50 years assuming nothing else would work until Bode Miller started winning on “beginner” skis with a deeper sidecut. Almost overnight ski companies couldn’t give their traditionally shaped skis away.
It’s been found that one gains ‘leverage’ advantage with a longer stem and/or riser which translates to being more in control of weighting the front tire. It’s obviously somewhat a tricky situation of finding a sweet spot that will be different for everyone that also depends on geometry of the frame, the fork’s travel, rake and angle. I’m sure you realize that already but it’s somewhat counterintuitive for us to understand how bar riser height and or stem length can actually have a positive or increased front tire weighting control impact. Which I forgot to listen to this video and assume what it’s saying anyhow. Lolz
What matters is back angle, which is based on crank length (foot spread), bar width (hand spread), reach and bar height, combined with leg, torso and arm length. I have long legs and torso but very short arms so even with very tall bars my back is still pretty horizontal. Keep in mind geo (cs length), suspension setup (air pressure + damping) and riding style also play a big role. Can’t just slap a tall bar on your bike and ride into the sunset. I’m pretty sure Dakotah runs his forks quite soft to keep the bike from understeering too much.
Been running 80mm deity bars for a year on my slash and my pivot shuttle. Have them both mullet. Only thing is depends on what terrain you are riding. Lower shock pressures for steep tech. Front end will wash if you don’t have it set up right. For park it’s a no brainer. Much more comfortable, especially on bigger drops and hits.
Great topic! I'm a shorter rider and went through a lot of measurements last year. I tried different rise bars (same Gewage brand). I ended up going with Deity 50mm rise bars. Both of my adult sons thought it was a crazy idea. But I love the way my YT Decoy 29 rides with those bars. I ride a lot of bike parks, tables, berms, and drops. Glad to see others trying it.
i was losing the front end a lot, not so keen on the beach cruiser look so i just flipped my stem for 30mm rise and matched it with a 30mm rise handlebar. feels much better.
Same here, I washed out my front once and it started me on the journey of figuring out my cockpit. Put my stem up 5 or 10mm, can't remember, and increased my rise from 20 to 38. World of difference.
I've been riding with 60mm rise bars for a couple years now and I absolutely love them! Jumps, drops and steep downhills just feel safer now. BUT... I'm 6'4 with slightly shorter than average arms and the 60mm rise only just brings my grips level with my saddle when it's up. I've done this on both my trail and enduro bikes.
I've been running 60mm bars on my long-travel eeb for a couple of years. It's not only more comfortable but when the trail gets steep and rowdy, the bar helps you into the proper position for the descent. In the beginning, I had to focus on the front-end weight for cornering, but it quickly became second nature. Love the riser!
i've been running 55mm rise bars since like 2014 and everyone told me it was weird but now look lol. any bigger than 60 and climbing starts to suck so i tend to stay at 45/55 depending on how high the front end is on the frame
Use 60 mm Spank on my Titus hardtail (Ti Hello Dave) and it improved it a lot for me. That is an extremely long bike and I have been riding since the Raleigh Maverick, which had similar mental riser bars. These types of bars were the thing back in the mid 90s,
I run 60mm rise on all of my bikes. Mainly ride single track, and flow/jump trails. I'm just over 6.0', and I've never enjoyed the super weight forward feel of mountain bikes as a kid. Thankfully riser bars have changed the game for me. It keeps me more upright, which saves my back and wrists. Doesn't affect my climbing abilities either.
Since I'm quite a tall guy I've been running 50,60 even 70mm riser bars all the time. The only bike I run 35mm riser bars on is my custom frame hardtail, which has a much higher stack than normal. Give us more stack on big bikes!
I've got the Burgtec 50mm rise bars and I really love them. No more lower back pain, better mobility on the bike, and steep stuff feels much better. I can't really find any downsides. I thought I would wash out the front eventually because of weight distribution but so far hasn't happened. One plus is that I never feel like I get caught out being too in front of the bike. Recommend!
Startet in April to ride mtb, was a bmxer. First thing I hated was this flat „riserbars“ I ch aged it to a 60mm Riserbars from spank and I couldn’t be happier. The optic the style the feeling posture and so on all better with Riserbars ❤❤❤❤
Always ran 50mm riser bars, they just felt more controllable than flats. I'll also add that on an aesthetic level, a triple clamp fork with a riser bar and a brace still looks hardcore af....
I’m not a downhiller but I run a 50 mm riser and I cut them very short (like 90’s mtb short), and wouldn’t mind a little more. It gives me the ability to shift my weight back farther when I’m navigating more technical sections. Another benefit of riding in a generally more upright position is it improves your equilibrium. As far as aesthetics, you will get used to them if you see them enough.
I have always liked rise bars and thought flat ones usually look kinda bland to me. I bought a 40mm rise fatbar and i absolutely love how it looks over the 20mm kona ones i had on shape alone
Team 60 mm here. Was a bit of trial and error, but 60 mm seems like the sweet spot for me. I’m 6’ 1” with a long torso and relatively short legs and arms. The riser bar has been amazing for easing back and neck fatigue on long rides.
I went to Deity 80mm rise and ended up buying another bar for my hardtail. I’m short at 5’8 , but these bars are so much more comfortable. I have no issues with front end traction plus I can lift the front end much easier.
I’ve been thinking all the things you’ve tested here, and now I’m convinced. I’m going to switch up. The dirtbike position has always made me feel more confident. Also. I wish the US loved drum-n-bass like the UK does. 😍☺️
Legs are much better at absorbing force than arms are, and the rear travel on most bikes exceeds the vertical travel on the forks (a 200mm fork with a slack head angle will have < 180mm of vertical travel) so it makes sense to put less force through the forks to make up for this imbalance. In my opinion, the longer the rear centre, the higher the stack can get without the front end washing out.
Used to run those big chunky Amoeba bars back in the day on my DH rig, high rise all the way, I have even been toying with some low rise BMX racing bars on a jump bike as I am 6'5"
I’ve ridden with 20-25mm of spacers under my stem for years and have my bars swept up to add height. I love the extra height and wish I had the money for high rise bars. I love the feeling and control it gives me
In 1993, I had an Answer Manitou with duel rear suspension. It was the shiz. Most of our crew ran riser bars that literally had a cross bar like motocross bars. The good ol' days of downhill.
I've been doing thi for almost 10 years on my 2013 Giant XTC. I slammed the Thompson stem and have Renthal carbon fatbar light bars with a 30mm rise. Bike is awesome, absolutely no issues going up steep hills, and I'm 50 lol. The reason I did this setup was because of my spinal issues. Make thw bke far more enjoyable and usable for me.
I bought an adjustable stem just to experiment with bar position/geometry and I found that a slightly higher bar position was much more comfortable. Need to get to a shop to try some bars with different rises.
I've been running Deity 80mm on my Slash 9.8 since 2022 . I did extend the stem to regain stock geometry after the change . I have found less back strain since changing the bar /stem from stock ( old guy issues ) .
I gotta say, the MTB community kinda changed here where I live a bit. Last year so many people on the bikepark looked at my DH with a 75mm spank handlebar and were really surprised and others judged it. And I kinda hate the fact, that quite some people on the bike park with always the latest tech are the ones that judge others. But for what? Just cause I ride my bike the way I like it? It all started with the bmx for me and also extremely high handlebars cause I'm quite tall. On my older transition I felt like the cockpit was just too far down and now since I'm riding enduro I ride 60-75mm handlebars. Might look weird but I like feeling, especially on some bikes it gives you a smooth feeling for bunnyhops and some other stuff that's quite useful here and there and it feels way better having high rise bars and less spacers under my stem. Side note, I'm definitely more a free ride guy and less a racer but I realised, the position with a bit higher handlebars gives a lot of confidence and it feels like especially on steep terrain nothing could throw you over the bars which gives you enough confidence to send even harder. I can only recommend trying it, don't wanna convince people but try it, especially for those, who judged my bike for its weird look with these bars.
I know what you're saying about the idiots falling prey to corporate psychology trends. They're all over reddit under /xcMtb and care more about looks than actual performance. When I mentioned that steeper fork angle, short stem, and high rise make climbing easier and more comfortable, they assumed I'm a noob. They have to. since they got tricked into paying $4K for regressed MTB geometry. It's called COPE 😂
I ride high rise bars and they really help with your riding position but it is surprising how much difference a couple mm rise can make, also cutting them shorter helps you move your arms a lot more than the wider ones
In late 1999 I picked up a SuperVee with flat Coda bars. In early 2000 I switched to a ~3" (advertised 80mm, but they weren't.) rise and a slightly taller stem, and a fork with more steer tube length and as many spacers as I could use! Wound up being about 130mm taller than stock. Have used Renthal's with great success and Pro-Taper SE/MBB/quad bars too! I ride bikes to commute and for fun, so being more upright is a huge advantage for me being comfortable! A dude I work with has a San Quentin with effing S&M bmx bars as his bar cruiser ride! I will say... The fit on that old ass Cannondale changed quite a bit with that much height added. Anymore with how slack angles are... I bet a decent riser can essentially cange the frame size! Lol! MTB is rad, I'm glad I'm getting back into it!
Good content again. Crazy looking bar but pretty well explained results / feelings. These geometry tests and comparisons are specifically interesting. Good work.
Just got my diety 80mm rise bars yesterday.. rode them today WOW what difference on the down hill and control on the turns.. I'm sold 🤘 Body positioning is so comfortable , I feel neutral on the turns with confidence.. I had 40mm renthals before..
Just picked up some 80mm rise Deity 35mm bars and a new 35mm stem last week. Like you guys read my mind. Love the look and feel. Yet to send it on the trails but feel it’ll be my new set up for sure. Makes my old 35 risers look teeny 😂
I'm pretty tall (6'3"/192cm) with a short torso and long legs and I'm actually kind of struggling with the reach on my XL '23 Giant Trance. I've put a shorter stem on the bike which helped but it still doesn't feel optimal. I've been thinking about increasing handlebar rise from 20mm to 40mm but like Neil I was worried about washing out the front. This video convinced me to give it a try, I'm gonna order one right now! If I'll remember to I will report back on how it rides. Thanks for another cool vid, greetings from the Netherlands!
Good to here Dakota talk about short arms. When it comes to bike fit this never gets mentioned. Flatter bars and short stack can be uncomfortable for us with s negative ape index. More weight put on the wrists and necks straining so you can see down the trail. Great to hear others showing their solution to this as the bike fit videos dont even acknowledge this problem
Awesome …if you ever rode motocross or enduro motorbikes this makes perfect sense …. Glad it’s finally hit MTB. The flat bars do look better but I’ll be looking for some new bars . I always try to get riser clamps or headstock/stem to compensate for flat bars . One thing that wasn’t mentioned is how much easier it is to get the front wheel up in manual when you need to … especially if you aren’t that great technically ie me 😂 thanks for the great vid 👍🏻
I've been running SPANK Vibrocore 75mm rise bars on both my bikes for a few years now. I put them on because I'm 195cm tall and wanted the right stack height. Funnily enough I recently thought that I would try to drop the bars and moved a spacer above the stem to see if that made me weight the front more. Two rides later I reverted back to no spacers above the stem, as that is the position I feel most balanced and stable in.
Great vid. Key point, this is NOT about what it’s like sitting down on the bike on the saddle, this is about STANDING up on your feet attacking the hill. I went to a 50 mm Riser from Deilty for this summer and it’s been an improvement. I’m better placed on the bike for some reason (was I less over the bars standing in attack position on my 20mm stock SC carbon bars ?). And it’s a game changer when the front dives in (code for cocking things up 🎉) as it delivers the same as doing loads of gym work to keep your chest off the bars when it all goes wrong. Also, it doesn’t seem to make a difference to technical climbing on my SC Bullit (I had wondered if the front would obviously lift more quickly at the wrong moments and all I’ve noticed is it’s a bit easier to get up over a step up). Lastly, I’m old with a bad back nd it’s definitely helped with that too, although I didn’t change for that reason.
I have the Burgtec Bryceland bars in 50mm. I've always used high risers bars as it alleviates neck pain for me when riding. Now, along with Saddle and Pedals,it's one of the first changes I make.
ProTaper makes the A76. Have had them on my bike for over a year. Amazing setup. This will be what everyone is running. More confidence, comfort, and control. Feels like you’re on a MX bike.
I went the same route. Switched to 60mm rise and loved the feel, hated the “look” found some 50mm Carbon Renthals and that was the perfect size for me (and they look good too) nice review. I did this same video years ago🤙🏻 The reason I did it was because of lower back pain while climbing. The Riser bars also took care of that problem. Try em, you’ll be surprised how quickly you learn to love them.
I've start running 50mm rise and some decent spacers on many of my bikes. WAY more comfortable, easier to manual, easier to get tall on takeoffs of jumps... for me it just works so much better and the comfort is such a vast improvement I'm doing it to any bike I get my hands on and it just instantly feels right to me!
Greetings from America! That bar setup is really interesting, however, I bet it does feel good and works well. I was having a conversation with someone about Geometry, and what seems to provide comfort and confidence when pointed downhill. Which is opposite of the way a cross country bike is. For front tire grip, I think it is much like you say, kind of like a mid engine vehicle. Cross country is more like 50/50, but is not confidence inspiring when pointed downhill. I have also worked on my own designs within CAD, and was also working on Geometry that is not exactly the same as what had been the trend for Enduro style bikes. One of my designs has a very high head tube, much like a dh bike. Head tube's on Cross country bikes are comparatively very low. So, those riser bars can provide a very vertical or stand up feeling when pointed down steep descents. Cool! I also provides the arm with more range of movement, your bike looks a motorcycle, motocross like.
Been running 90mm rise since 2019. My old back couldn’t deal with the attack position flat bars put me in. Love em. Also had a moto background, so maybe that was a contributing factor.
I run the Pro Taper 78mm rise bars. This closely mimics my motocross CRF 450 and also eliminates OTBs since I’m not hanging over the front tire anymore.
Recently, I switched to 80mm rise bars because my bike felt a bit large. After trying a few methods, I settled on Deity bars. While it does feel a bit strange, I'm no longer being pushed forward. Ultimately, the most important thing is finding what makes you comfortable.
I tried yours weight scale trick. Managed to find chopping board with exactly same high as weight scale😂 ... exactly 40% fr - 60 %re weight bias. I won't touch that setup ever again.🤓 thank you sir
For about 20 years I have preferred higher bars with my hands a few inches higher than my seat, so when I get a new bike build I always ask for the steerer tube not to be cut off until we’re finished experimenting with the handlebar height. Because you can’t put the metal back once it’s been cut off. Then I get a proper professional bike fit. It always surprises the bike builder just how high I finally decide to go. I ride quite long distances with a long time in the saddle. A higher position looks after my lower back. You do have to play with the sag in your suspension to get the right for-and-aft balance. Interestingly, nearly every time I get my bikes back from some work in the bike shop I have to be sure to put my settings back in place. Young bike mechanics tend to adjust things to their own preferences 😮 The one time I neglected to readjust my bike settings and suspension pressures I suffered a massive OTB in the first hundred metres of downhill.
As a short-armed person (think T. rex), riser bars are standard on all my trail bikes. I once went so far as spending an annoying couple of hours serially changing my bars from almost flat to riser to riserier, then riding the same stretch of trail. The higher the bars, the better I could lean the bike under me in flat corners. Makes lifting the front wheel a bit easier as well.
I've been riding with high-rise (60mm on my DH, 80mm on my DJs) bars for more than 5 years now, and can't help but smirk at the fact that it took you this long to try them lol
A bonus side effect from more rise is it comes with more flex. Great for us who rides trails with allot of rocks and roots. I went down from 35 to 31,8m clamp bars (with spacers for my 35mm short Renthal stem) for the same reason. Definitely less tired hands compared to 30mm rais 35mm carbon bars. But that is probably also from elbows being bendt more most of the time with more Rais..
My downhill bike is hardtail over 30 years old and has it's original bars with a rise of 10mm and still manages to squeeze a reinforcing link across the rise. My 40 year old Folda has bars with a rise of 90mm. I wouldn't want to ride either of them on a downhill track but the Folda is good on snow 😁. Actually the 30 tear old is surprisingly fun on greens, in spite of being on rigid forks.
Changed mine to high rise bars with a height of 5 inches and boy it saved my shoulders. Also changed the saddle into a very wide with very thick cushion.
This is the same reason that super tall reversed stem was developed. The high handlebars are a much better choice though, for adjustability. Like the roll you mentioned changing the reach significantly.
It makes sense to me, in bmx *you* shift your weight through xyz. High bars are less twitchy, lets more of your torso be involved instead of just trapezius.
I’ve just got a Strive on underdog and the first thing to go on it we’re 50mm Nico Vink bars. I’m 6’3 with long lanky legs and find the additional rise takes a bit of pressure off my back.
@ 9:19 that’s a Mountain Cycle San Andreas. I have one set up as a resto mod trail bike. You’ll have to ride it at Sea Otter. Unfortunately, the founder Robert Reisinger just passed away last May. As far as high bars and high stack go, yes it is the future. But in the future, frames will be built around this concept. Which will make the concept better. It’s already starting to happen with higher stacks. It doesn’t change the weight bias of the bike. Especially, if you make the necessary suspension changes to get proper front and rear sag. It does take some time to get used to. The myth is, it’s harder to put good power down. This isn’t true. We all should be riding on 2 wheels like Jett Lawrence rides a dirt bike. That is riding from your feet, with your legs more straight, upper body in a more upright position, ass sticking out, head up with a strong core. Watch Ryan Huges or Rhyno Power videos on riding technique. It’s 100% adaptable to mountain bike riding. And it works!
If 100% of static weight is standing equally balanced on the pedals, the ratio of weight on the front and back tyres is the same as the ratio of front-centre and rear-centre. If you dynamically push on the bars exiting corners and other compressions, there is a weight shift to the front tyre which seems to help avoid under steering.
When your BB is below your axles it doesn’t matter if you even have handlebars. When you stand the weight distribution is set by the bike’s geometry almost exclusively.
How much rise do you have on your bars? Do you want to try more? 🤔
Ive been running a 35mm rise but I want try a 45-50
@@ianrenomtb i went from 20 to 40 in renthal fat bars felt so much better but wish i went just a bit higher ive got a nukeproof mega and its a large and i just felt a bit streched on my reach
Went from 25 to 38 and now 50mm and loving them. Still doing a little bit of fine tuning with spacers but I am pretty much at my sweet spot now I think.
50mm rise works great for me
Great video Neil. Like the way you clearly laid out your thoughts throughout the test. I see the logic of using higher bars for descending but in my experience they can make climbing more difficult as it lightens the front end too much. Obviously not an issue if all your riding is downhill!
Thank you for this video! I’m 63 yrs old, with a 53 yr Moto/dirt bike background. I recently added mtb to my lifestyle, crazy as it seems at my age. I’ve found the content on your site extremely valuable over the past couple months, as I researched the sport. I picked up a second hand Giant E Trance Pro 29er in late June and took it out a handful of times, on some great trails in South Lake Tahoe. I’m a big guy, 6’2”, 270lbs and after a few days riding, the first thing I thought of, was how much I missed the upright position of my dirt bike, compared to this Emtb. I was riding with my brother and we both talked about adding some height to our bars. Your video, and the story behind the higher bars, has convinced me to test 75mm and 90mm bars. Regards, Steve
Happy Trails
i am 6.5 tall and have 50 years of dirt background - riding very wide tyres al the time - long before the get trendy - and know - the mtb rider comming al from xc and rr - thinking of low drag - allways - but look in the last century - our "ancestors" have ridden highriser long ago
aktually riding 690 mm stack and a horizontal toptube with 675 mm...
Great to hear Steve! Thanks so much for watching the vids. We're very happy you're finding them useful! Enjoy your experiments! 👨🔬
awesome enjoy 👍👍good thing about Emtb is it can extend yore riding years wile still keeping you fit , ps please don't get those amazon bars your risking your life 😉😉😂😂
Short bikes, narrow bars, flat bars, steep geo, long cranks, skinny tires- all these vestiges of road bikes in mtbs and here we are in 2024 still realizing that we need to throw what we know from road bikes out the window. And the craziest part about it is that the answer has been right there all along if we just looked at it- motocross and bmx. They figured all this stuff out ages ago- including mixed wheels.
Yes, I come from riding BMX and we went through the low and even narrow bar phase in the late 90s early 2000s. But if you look now, we went from 7 inch rise bars with 26 inch width to 9 inch or higher with 29 inch or so width. Taller riders will even run 10 inch rise bars on their BMX bikes.
It makes sense. It's less effort to pull up because your weight is shifted back and your arms are in the ideal power (bend in elbow) to control the front end. When you need to weight the front end, you actually have more leverage to do so with taller bars. It all makes perfect sense.
@@dadventuretv2538 I've been wondering since the 90's if mountain bikers have ever seen a motocross motorcycle. Just bizarre that so many think being hunched forward over those flat bars makes sense. Group think kills common sense.
@@ShadLife - the trendy width is as stupid as the trendy low rise. I’ve been riding mtb since the late 80s. Came too late to the high rise bars, but I never went to anything less than shoulder width because I’m averaging 13 mph, FFS.
Dirtbikes don't spend a lot of time on steep downhill
@@BGraves ??? Are you being serious?
Been running the Deity 60mm rise for eight years now. They’re a lot more comfortable and they give me the Moto feel. Go Dak!
@@mtb10s40 been riding Deity 50mm, I like the height but carbon OneUps are so much more comfortable
I use them too . I had to extend the stem to regain stock positioning in the cockpit.
I'm thinking of 50mm bars cause I want that moto feeling better for wheelies and jumps IMHO thanks for saying you run 60mm and like moto feel
I’ve had 80mm rise Deity bars for the past couple of years and they have sorted my lower back pain right out. Plus a 5mm rise DMR defy stem. No issues with lower back on 30mile+ rides. They’re great!
I run the Deity 80 mm high rise as well and my back was the main reason too.
Great to know! Glad they're working out for you 💪
but 760 mm is too narrow for some people :(
@@babenkoff Who are you talking too? The Deity come in 800mm wide.
@@johndunbar2393 31.8 mm is only 760 mm. but yes, 35 mm clamp is 800 mm.
All we had was riser bars back in the 90's early 00's. Not a new trend just going back to a one that worked. Always been so much better than the low rise imo. Found 50mm the sweet spot
I've still got an old set in the shed from back then!
Not only that but mullet builds and wide tires all from the 2000s. Nothing new here
@@tjpighin Remember running 26/24 on my Norco VPS back in the day
@@chrisexplore8276 hahahaha 💯 on sun ringle double wides with 3 inch gazzis and mrp chainguide
@chrisexplore8276 💯 with Sun ringle double wides and Nokian gazzi 3.0s and maybe an mrp chainguide.
In one of the podcasts, it was mentioned that Dak runs about 15psi lower in the forks than most other riders too. So maybe soften the forks for the next test
Went from a 35mm rise to a 60 mm rise spank spoon hbar (on same 35mm length stem) this season and I’m absolutely loving it…..(and your back feels so much better after the ride too- added bonus)
I did this on my wife’s mtb - the Spank Spoon high rise bars, which she loves (and her neck/back appreciates). Now I’m the jealous one and need to do the same!
@@pedarbruce6373 I will claim that my lower back never feels sore the day after a long day in the saddle with the hi-riser
You didn't like 35mm rise?? My stock bars are super flat I can't decide between the 35mm rise or 50mm rise help with back issues on longer rides and more moto feel for jumping and riding wheelies and stuff??
@@MTB_FANATIC99 I think you should start with 35-40mm. I just happened to have a spank 60mm on my ancient jump bike, and figured I'd give it a try and I actually liked it even more than the 35mm. The only instance where it's a real disadvantage is when you really have to stand up and hammer the pedals, i.e. the flat sections of an Enduro race stage - you feel like you just cant get your weight forward and low enough to hammer a sprint. You will also need to push into banked flat corners to get the weight transfer to the front (with a low bar you're already leaning onto the front anyway - with the high bar, you need to compensate for that by bending your elbows more). But for general trail riding, it's wonderfully comfortable and fun.
@jokermtb yeah I think I'm going to go with the spank spoon bars they're the 50 mm I'll be cool at 50 mm rise thanks man I ride mostly around town and do some jumps at the city park jump curves and stuff so that's why I'm going to go with the 50mm 👍🏻👍🏻
High rise bars are perfect for absorbing big hits with your arms and still not hitting the sternum
I've felt the same way
Those bars at the video gonna be the new way MTB would be rode
Yea 105% right.. Absolutely thats what i felt 👍
I have those exact bars and absolutely love them. One thing ive noticed is being a taller tider (6'_3") the riser bars really helps my back, but more importantly corrects the geo with my longer inseam. My friends who are shorter have their seat basically match their handle bar height when fully extended, but if i use a 50mm or shorter riser bar, then my bars are actually lower than my seat (when seat is fully extended). The higher rise bars corrects that brings me in better balance. Plus i feel safer. Like it is harder to go over the bars. Might have to find a more reputable brand for QC, but so far so good. Thanks for this episode! Nice work!
@@addtext do you recall the link for the bars?
I’m curious if you ride a XL or L frame. I’ve noticed it’s tricky for manufacturers to create a universal frame sizing especially those who are similar in height with either significantly longer legs or the opposite and have shorter legs and longer arms-torso body ratio types.
That and one’s natural flexibility in their hips is not just a matter of being able to touch one’s toes- but it kinda all works together with thigh length, knee over pedal positioning, stem length/riser height and so on. And so much of it may be counterintuitive or confusing for those of us who are familiar to the past bike eras of various geometry trends or particular bike ‘wisdoms’ concerning fitting a bike that may or may not translate or be useful today.
In other words, pay particular attention to the numbers of frame geometry and how those measurements are adjusted for a different size - and how they are often not standardized or consistent between the different companies who manufacture bikes- which can make it somewhat challenging or overwhelming to determine not only what size frame or how to setup a bike to fit oneself but also how the results will compare to another person even if similar in height can be significantly different.
Moving saddles fore or aft or increasing/decreasing stem length or riser height cannot always result for whatever an individual needs or is trying to accomplish that may end up being a matter of a particular frame size/geometry that potentially a different company does differently that will result in a night and day difference. Or sizing up a frame size is something that might be appropriate as opposed to how many of us older riders are accustomed to the old school road and mountain racing trend based on how a few pros rode a ‘sized’ down frame and that becoming some kind of idea of being faster. Ya know
In other words, ya get hip to the actual geometry numbers and angles of your body and frame and make sure you’re getting familiar with how each change of angle, height or length of any given body part of frame and setup will impact one another as a whole. Obviously your body is going to be the one that won’t be adjustable so those numbers and which ones matter most to what has become a rather significant growing focus on expert bike fitting techniques- it’s overwhelming and complicated at first until one can actually focus on how and what sweet spot numbers will fit one’s personal numbers and needs- and how or which bike manufacture and size hits those best.
Best as can be without truly needing to get a custom built frame. Fun times
This was so informational Im also a taller rider and have a longer than normal legs so my seat is always way higher than my bars, I think raising my bars is something ill try!
Ride 90s MTBs we never stopped using these bars🤣
yea welcome back to the 90s and 00s...
Exactly! The commuter bikers have known this for 6 decades. There is no reason to be laying down on a bike.
@@ericthedesigner agreed, I'm from the early 2000's era. And I've been saying these modern bikes front ends are way too low. So much so my bike is 20mm out geo spec fork wise, climbs like mess but down is all fun.
Just came to comment this
And 550mm wide? Gotta save that weight.
I’ve always liked taller handlebars than most riders, currently running 60mm on my trail bike, 80mm on my dj and 50 mm on my fat bike . Im happy to see more and more companies making 50mm+ handlebars with a decent width, ten years ago they were almost impossible to find.
When I swapped the bars on the Trek Marlin 7 I had, it made a huge difference to how much better the bike felt and that was a 50mm rise bar as opposed to the flat bar the bike had originally. It's amazing how much of a difference that it can make. Great video Neil. Always cool watching you blast down hill on a well set up bike.
My hardtail came with 20mm bars. I recently swapped them out for 50mm rise and it has totally transformed how it rides. It's a million % more comfortable to ride now. I am actually tempted to do the same on my enduro even though that is not the best on the steep climbs as it is.
I can't decide between 35mm or 50mm rise I want a higher rise for wheelies and jumping but also for back issues on long rides so 50 mm isn't too upright?? That's probably what I'm going to go with
It’s always interesting to realize how much used to be known, gets forgotten, then gets rediscovered as “new”.
My 1986 Specialized Hardrock has a higher stem and bar than MTBs of the past couple decades. Also, it came with shorter cranks than recent bikes for my size. Horribly ironic that I can sustain a higher speed and for longer on my 1986 Hardrock than I can on any MTB I’ve bought since 2013. I will concede that all of my newer bikes brake better and shift faster. So some actual new technologies are clear improvements. But a shame that the human/machine interfacing has degraded to lost understanding of biomechanics.
This is not just a bicycling thing. In aviation there was ugly debate from the 1990s into the early 2000s about proper fuel mixture adjustment for piston engines. The latest research, computer modeling, and testing proved lean of peak to be better. Which had been known and in manuals in the 1920s and 30s. Somehow that knowledge was lost by the 1970s.
In all endeavors we can do better by not discarding standards from the slide rule era until proving there is a quantifiable reason to do so.
Moto setup is my go to for chunky DH racing , drops are so much easier not much air time anymore at 64 but when I did, much more comfortable in the air. Happy Trails.
6foot height, slightly short steerer tube my 60mm rise bars have been a life saver, plus I don't feel like going otb as soon as the trail steepenes a bit
6'6" here and just purchased 60mm for that reason!
I run Renthal Fat Bar in a 40mm rise and I really love them on my Commencal Clash. They help climbing as well as descending.
My stock bars are super flat maybe 10mm rise I can't decide between 35mm or 50mm rise bars for back issues but also more moto feel for jumping and riding wheelies what do you think??
Fascinating! When I used to race in the SDA years ago I switched to Chromag flat bars on my bike and absolutely loved it! Ever since I’ve always used either flat or as low as possible on all my bikes
As a former competitive downhill ski racer I'm surprised it's taken this long for dh mtb to begin exploring this basic concept. Our legs are approximately four times stronger than our arms, so any body position where you are bent over at the waist and leaning on your arms will inherently be weaker than what we call a "stacked" position that takes advantage of the body's skeletal/muscular ability to resist gravity and G-forces.
Bc you need to have weight on the front tire for turns.
@@huckfin1598 then move the bottom bracket forward? I'm not a bike designer, just someone who knows proper body position is essential in gravity sports.
@@nikht0 move bc forward???? Thank you for showing you have no idea what you’re talking about
@@huckfin1598 Awww, is somebody cranky? (Excuse the pun). I’m always puzzled by people who are seemingly offended by new ideas. Why couldn’t you move the bottom bracket slightly forward in relation to the front and rear wheels? Would that be impossible? Of course not. Would it work? Who knows? That’s what experimentation is all about, which it happens I DO know something about. Eg; Ski designers used the same sidecut for 50 years assuming nothing else would work until Bode Miller started winning on “beginner” skis with a deeper sidecut. Almost overnight ski companies couldn’t give their traditionally shaped skis away.
It’s been found that one gains ‘leverage’ advantage with a longer stem and/or riser which translates to being more in control of weighting the front tire. It’s obviously somewhat a tricky situation of finding a sweet spot that will be different for everyone that also depends on geometry of the frame, the fork’s travel, rake and angle.
I’m sure you realize that already but it’s somewhat counterintuitive for us to understand how bar riser height and or stem length can actually have a positive or increased front tire weighting control impact. Which I forgot to listen to this video and assume what it’s saying anyhow. Lolz
What matters is back angle, which is based on crank length (foot spread), bar width (hand spread), reach and bar height, combined with leg, torso and arm length.
I have long legs and torso but very short arms so even with very tall bars my back is still pretty horizontal.
Keep in mind geo (cs length), suspension setup (air pressure + damping) and riding style also play a big role. Can’t just slap a tall bar on your bike and ride into the sunset. I’m pretty sure Dakotah runs his forks quite soft to keep the bike from understeering too much.
Been running 80mm deity bars for a year on my slash and my pivot shuttle. Have them both mullet. Only thing is depends on what terrain you are riding. Lower shock pressures for steep tech. Front end will wash if you don’t have it set up right. For park it’s a no brainer. Much more comfortable, especially on bigger drops and hits.
5'8" Pink flamingo legs paired with T-rex arms, love my 38mm rise bars
5'7" with Deity Blacklabel 38mm rise bars and 35mm reach stem is money for me.
TRex arms here too. Switched to 38mm rise bars on my trail bike and I'm much more comfortable and can see where I'm going without straining my neck
Kona Process 134 and the Deity Highside 80mm bars. No more numb hands and they look awesome.
Great topic! I'm a shorter rider and went through a lot of measurements last year. I tried different rise bars (same Gewage brand). I ended up going with Deity 50mm rise bars. Both of my adult sons thought it was a crazy idea. But I love the way my YT Decoy 29 rides with those bars. I ride a lot of bike parks, tables, berms, and drops. Glad to see others trying it.
i was losing the front end a lot, not so keen on the beach cruiser look so i just flipped my stem for 30mm rise and matched it with a 30mm rise handlebar. feels much better.
Awesome! Tinkering to find something that works for you is always a big 👍 in our books!
Same here, I washed out my front once and it started me on the journey of figuring out my cockpit. Put my stem up 5 or 10mm, can't remember, and increased my rise from 20 to 38. World of difference.
I've been riding with 60mm rise bars for a couple years now and I absolutely love them! Jumps, drops and steep downhills just feel safer now. BUT... I'm 6'4 with slightly shorter than average arms and the 60mm rise only just brings my grips level with my saddle when it's up. I've done this on both my trail and enduro bikes.
I've been running 60mm bars on my long-travel eeb for a couple of years. It's not only more comfortable but when the trail gets steep and rowdy, the bar helps you into the proper position for the descent. In the beginning, I had to focus on the front-end weight for cornering, but it quickly became second nature. Love the riser!
i've been running 55mm rise bars since like 2014 and everyone told me it was weird but now look lol. any bigger than 60 and climbing starts to suck so i tend to stay at 45/55 depending on how high the front end is on the frame
Yeaa dude...hero always win in the end of the movie 😂💪
I can't decide between the 35MM or the 50mm rise bars, I think I'm going to go with the 50mm rise that seems to be the happy medium for most
Use 60 mm Spank on my Titus hardtail (Ti Hello Dave) and it improved it a lot for me. That is an extremely long bike and I have been riding since the Raleigh Maverick, which had similar mental riser bars. These types of bars were the thing back in the mid 90s,
I run 60mm rise on all of my bikes. Mainly ride single track, and flow/jump trails.
I'm just over 6.0', and I've never enjoyed the super weight forward feel of mountain bikes as a kid. Thankfully riser bars have changed the game for me.
It keeps me more upright, which saves my back and wrists. Doesn't affect my climbing abilities either.
Since I'm quite a tall guy I've been running 50,60 even 70mm riser bars all the time. The only bike I run 35mm riser bars on is my custom frame hardtail, which has a much higher stack than normal. Give us more stack on big bikes!
I've got the Burgtec 50mm rise bars and I really love them. No more lower back pain, better mobility on the bike, and steep stuff feels much better. I can't really find any downsides. I thought I would wash out the front eventually because of weight distribution but so far hasn't happened. One plus is that I never feel like I get caught out being too in front of the bike. Recommend!
I have run DEITY HIGHSIDE 760 HANDLEBAR /// 80mm RISE for a few years now. Love the balance and control.
Moved up to 65mm rise a while ago, I'm 6f3 and have em on a large fuel xt9.8 so and now it's more fun on the downhills and still easy to climb
I run 60mm Spank Spoons - They definitely made me feel far more comfortable on the bike!
Startet in April to ride mtb, was a bmxer. First thing I hated was this flat „riserbars“ I ch aged it to a 60mm Riserbars from spank and I couldn’t be happier. The optic the style the feeling posture and so on all better with Riserbars ❤❤❤❤
I've been running spank vibracore 60mm"s and I just love them sure alot easier on the back with no ill effects cornering.Cheers!!!
Always ran 50mm riser bars, they just felt more controllable than flats. I'll also add that on an aesthetic level, a triple clamp fork with a riser bar and a brace still looks hardcore af....
Add a banana seat and we've got a new class, the mountain bike chopper. 😀
I’m not a downhiller but I run a 50 mm riser and I cut them very short (like 90’s mtb short), and wouldn’t mind a little more. It gives me the ability to shift my weight back farther when I’m navigating more technical sections. Another benefit of riding in a generally more upright position is it improves your equilibrium.
As far as aesthetics, you will get used to them if you see them enough.
I have always liked rise bars and thought flat ones usually look kinda bland to me. I bought a 40mm rise fatbar and i absolutely love how it looks over the 20mm kona ones i had on shape alone
Team 60 mm here. Was a bit of trial and error, but 60 mm seems like the sweet spot for me. I’m 6’ 1” with a long torso and relatively short legs and arms. The riser bar has been amazing for easing back and neck fatigue on long rides.
I went to Deity 80mm rise and ended up buying another bar for my hardtail. I’m short at 5’8 , but these bars are so much more comfortable. I have no issues with front end traction plus I can lift the front end much easier.
Back in the good old days everyone had Azonic shorty stem and Chubby riser bar combo. Up to 3 inch rise on the bars if I'm not mistaken.
loving the MUSIC vibe on this one particularly. great video thanks!
I’ve been running with 80mm Deity bars for a few seasons. It helps with the very low stack heights of most Mtb’s out there.
I’ve been thinking all the things you’ve tested here, and now I’m convinced. I’m going to switch up. The dirtbike position has always made me feel more confident.
Also.
I wish the US loved drum-n-bass like the UK does. 😍☺️
Legs are much better at absorbing force than arms are, and the rear travel on most bikes exceeds the vertical travel on the forks (a 200mm fork with a slack head angle will have < 180mm of vertical travel) so it makes sense to put less force through the forks to make up for this imbalance. In my opinion, the longer the rear centre, the higher the stack can get without the front end washing out.
Been using 90m rise bars on my ride for as long as I can remember. It's a comfort thing.
Used to run those big chunky Amoeba bars back in the day on my DH rig, high rise all the way, I have even been toying with some low rise BMX racing bars on a jump bike as I am 6'5"
I’ve ridden with 20-25mm of spacers under my stem for years and have my bars swept up to add height. I love the extra height and wish I had the money for high rise bars. I love the feeling and control it gives me
In 1993, I had an Answer Manitou with duel rear suspension. It was the shiz. Most of our crew ran riser bars that literally had a cross bar like motocross bars. The good ol' days of downhill.
I've been doing thi for almost 10 years on my 2013 Giant XTC. I slammed the Thompson stem and have Renthal carbon fatbar light bars with a 30mm rise. Bike is awesome, absolutely no issues going up steep hills, and I'm 50 lol. The reason I did this setup was because of my spinal issues. Make thw bke far more enjoyable and usable for me.
I bought an adjustable stem just to experiment with bar position/geometry and I found that a slightly higher bar position was much more comfortable. Need to get to a shop to try some bars with different rises.
Yeah keep experimenting! There's a world of opportunities ✌️
I've been running Deity 80mm on my Slash 9.8 since 2022 . I did extend the stem to regain stock geometry after the change . I have found less back strain since changing the bar /stem from stock ( old guy issues ) .
I gotta say, the MTB community kinda changed here where I live a bit. Last year so many people on the bikepark looked at my DH with a 75mm spank handlebar and were really surprised and others judged it. And I kinda hate the fact, that quite some people on the bike park with always the latest tech are the ones that judge others. But for what? Just cause I ride my bike the way I like it?
It all started with the bmx for me and also extremely high handlebars cause I'm quite tall. On my older transition I felt like the cockpit was just too far down and now since I'm riding enduro I ride 60-75mm handlebars. Might look weird but I like feeling, especially on some bikes it gives you a smooth feeling for bunnyhops and some other stuff that's quite useful here and there and it feels way better having high rise bars and less spacers under my stem.
Side note, I'm definitely more a free ride guy and less a racer but I realised, the position with a bit higher handlebars gives a lot of confidence and it feels like especially on steep terrain nothing could throw you over the bars which gives you enough confidence to send even harder.
I can only recommend trying it, don't wanna convince people but try it, especially for those, who judged my bike for its weird look with these bars.
👍👍 HEARING PEOPLE MAKES OUR BODY HURT .. its my bike and its my body, everything its up to me..
I know what you're saying about the idiots falling prey to corporate psychology trends. They're all over reddit under /xcMtb and care more about looks than actual performance. When I mentioned that steeper fork angle, short stem, and high rise make climbing easier and more comfortable, they assumed I'm a noob. They have to. since they got tricked into paying $4K for regressed MTB geometry. It's called COPE 😂
My 2002 Norco 4hun dirt jumper had high rise bars, loved it. Dusted it off a few years ago still like the rise, but damn are they narrow, lol.
Just going full BMX now. Smooth jump trails and now huge high rise bars. Make sense it works with all those jump trails.
Have you watch a DH world cup? They are not smooth jump trails.....
I ride high rise bars and they really help with your riding position but it is surprising how much difference a couple mm rise can make, also cutting them shorter helps you move your arms a lot more than the wider ones
In late 1999 I picked up a SuperVee with flat Coda bars. In early 2000 I switched to a ~3" (advertised 80mm, but they weren't.) rise and a slightly taller stem, and a fork with more steer tube length and as many spacers as I could use! Wound up being about 130mm taller than stock. Have used Renthal's with great success and Pro-Taper SE/MBB/quad bars too! I ride bikes to commute and for fun, so being more upright is a huge advantage for me being comfortable! A dude I work with has a San Quentin with effing S&M bmx bars as his bar cruiser ride! I will say... The fit on that old ass Cannondale changed quite a bit with that much height added. Anymore with how slack angles are... I bet a decent riser can essentially cange the frame size! Lol! MTB is rad, I'm glad I'm getting back into it!
I have long arms and use 3 inch and 3.5inch rise since 2007.
About time you guys caught up.
DJ bikes have been high rise and badass for ages.
Good content again. Crazy looking bar but pretty well explained results / feelings. These geometry tests and comparisons are specifically interesting. Good work.
Thanks for watching! There's definitely a couple of follow ups for this with a lot of the info in the comments!
Just got my diety 80mm rise bars yesterday.. rode them today WOW what difference on the down hill and control on the turns.. I'm sold 🤘 Body positioning is so comfortable , I feel neutral on the turns with confidence.. I had 40mm renthals before..
Just picked up some 80mm rise Deity 35mm bars and a new 35mm stem last week. Like you guys read my mind. Love the look and feel. Yet to send it on the trails but feel it’ll be my new set up for sure. Makes my old 35 risers look teeny 😂
I'm pretty tall (6'3"/192cm) with a short torso and long legs and I'm actually kind of struggling with the reach on my XL '23 Giant Trance. I've put a shorter stem on the bike which helped but it still doesn't feel optimal.
I've been thinking about increasing handlebar rise from 20mm to 40mm but like Neil I was worried about washing out the front. This video convinced me to give it a try, I'm gonna order one right now! If I'll remember to I will report back on how it rides.
Thanks for another cool vid, greetings from the Netherlands!
@@ItsATrap614 Update reminder. How's it handling now? And by short stem, what mm and what degree?
Good to here Dakota talk about short arms. When it comes to bike fit this never gets mentioned. Flatter bars and short stack can be uncomfortable for us with s negative ape index. More weight put on the wrists and necks straining so you can see down the trail. Great to hear others showing their solution to this as the bike fit videos dont even acknowledge this problem
Awesome …if you ever rode motocross or enduro motorbikes this makes perfect sense …. Glad it’s finally hit MTB. The flat bars do look better but I’ll be looking for some new bars . I always try to get riser clamps or headstock/stem to compensate for flat bars . One thing that wasn’t mentioned is how much easier it is to get the front wheel up in manual when you need to … especially if you aren’t that great technically ie me 😂 thanks for the great vid 👍🏻
It’s similar to when Seth (Berm Peak) rode with that tall stem. He stated that it felt more stable.
I’ve got the burgtec 50s on my e enduro and it makes a noticeable difference in control in all scenarios. Especially DH!
I've been running SPANK Vibrocore 75mm rise bars on both my bikes for a few years now. I put them on because I'm 195cm tall and wanted the right stack height. Funnily enough I recently thought that I would try to drop the bars and moved a spacer above the stem to see if that made me weight the front more. Two rides later I reverted back to no spacers above the stem, as that is the position I feel most balanced and stable in.
Great vid. Key point, this is NOT about what it’s like sitting down on the bike on the saddle, this is about STANDING up on your feet attacking the hill.
I went to a 50 mm Riser from Deilty for this summer and it’s been an improvement. I’m better placed on the bike for some reason (was I less over the bars standing in attack position on my 20mm stock SC carbon bars ?). And it’s a game changer when the front dives in (code for cocking things up 🎉) as it delivers the same as doing loads of gym work to keep your chest off the bars when it all goes wrong. Also, it doesn’t seem to make a difference to technical climbing on my SC Bullit (I had wondered if the front would obviously lift more quickly at the wrong moments and all I’ve noticed is it’s a bit easier to get up over a step up). Lastly, I’m old with a bad back nd it’s definitely helped with that too, although I didn’t change for that reason.
I'm 6' 3" , I run a 6" rise, I feel balanced, and the bike handles great. Plus less strain on my neck and hands.
I have the Burgtec Bryceland bars in 50mm. I've always used high risers bars as it alleviates neck pain for me when riding. Now, along with Saddle and Pedals,it's one of the first changes I make.
ProTaper makes the A76. Have had them on my bike for over a year. Amazing setup. This will be what everyone is running. More confidence, comfort, and control. Feels like you’re on a MX bike.
I went the same route. Switched to 60mm rise and loved the feel, hated the “look” found some 50mm Carbon Renthals and that was the perfect size for me (and they look good too) nice review. I did this same video years ago🤙🏻 The reason I did it was because of lower back pain while climbing. The Riser bars also took care of that problem. Try em, you’ll be surprised how quickly you learn to love them.
I've start running 50mm rise and some decent spacers on many of my bikes. WAY more comfortable, easier to manual, easier to get tall on takeoffs of jumps... for me it just works so much better and the comfort is such a vast improvement I'm doing it to any bike I get my hands on and it just instantly feels right to me!
I have been running the 50mm bergatec josh bryceland bars on my ebike since Feb and haven't looked back, love it.
Greetings from America! That bar setup is really interesting, however, I bet it does feel good and works well.
I was having a conversation with someone about Geometry, and what seems to provide comfort and confidence when pointed downhill. Which is opposite of the way a cross country bike is.
For front tire grip, I think it is much like you say, kind of like a mid engine vehicle. Cross country is more like 50/50, but is not confidence inspiring when pointed downhill.
I have also worked on my own designs within CAD, and was also working on Geometry that is not exactly the same as what had been the trend for Enduro style bikes.
One of my designs has a very high head tube, much like a dh bike. Head tube's on Cross country bikes are comparatively very low.
So, those riser bars can provide a very vertical or stand up feeling when pointed down steep descents. Cool!
I also provides the arm with more range of movement, your bike looks a motorcycle, motocross like.
Been running 90mm rise since 2019. My old back couldn’t deal with the attack position flat bars put me in. Love em. Also had a moto background, so maybe that was a contributing factor.
Been riding a 60mm rise for 18mths and love it, but like Dak I mx too.
I run the Pro Taper 78mm rise bars. This closely mimics my motocross CRF 450 and also eliminates OTBs since I’m not hanging over the front tire anymore.
Recently, I switched to 80mm rise bars because my bike felt a bit large. After trying a few methods, I settled on Deity bars. While it does feel a bit strange, I'm no longer being pushed forward. Ultimately, the most important thing is finding what makes you comfortable.
I tried yours weight scale trick. Managed to find chopping board with exactly same high as weight scale😂 ... exactly 40% fr - 60 %re weight bias. I won't touch that setup ever again.🤓 thank you sir
For about 20 years I have preferred higher bars with my hands a few inches higher than my seat, so when I get a new bike build I always ask for the steerer tube not to be cut off until we’re finished experimenting with the handlebar height. Because you can’t put the metal back once it’s been cut off. Then I get a proper professional bike fit. It always surprises the bike builder just how high I finally decide to go. I ride quite long distances with a long time in the saddle. A higher position looks after my lower back. You do have to play with the sag in your suspension to get the right for-and-aft balance.
Interestingly, nearly every time I get my bikes back from some work in the bike shop I have to be sure to put my settings back in place. Young bike mechanics tend to adjust things to their own preferences 😮
The one time I neglected to readjust my bike settings and suspension pressures I suffered a massive OTB in the first hundred metres of downhill.
As a short-armed person (think T. rex), riser bars are standard on all my trail bikes. I once went so far as spending an annoying couple of hours serially changing my bars from almost flat to riser to riserier, then riding the same stretch of trail. The higher the bars, the better I could lean the bike under me in flat corners. Makes lifting the front wheel a bit easier as well.
Short arms here too. Taller bars also makes looking down the trail easier too. Less neck strain
I literally bought the same riser bars in 70 mm a few weeks ago for a vintage mountain bike build just to have a bike to cruise around on in my city.
I've been riding with high-rise (60mm on my DH, 80mm on my DJs) bars for more than 5 years now, and can't help but smirk at the fact that it took you this long to try them lol
Bars got flatter in 2010s with bb getting lower, but high rise bars still have a lot of fans, me included 😁 glat they are coming back!
A bonus side effect from more rise is it comes with more flex. Great for us who rides trails with allot of rocks and roots. I went down from 35 to 31,8m clamp bars (with spacers for my 35mm short Renthal stem) for the same reason.
Definitely less tired hands compared to 30mm rais 35mm carbon bars.
But that is probably also from elbows being bendt more most of the time with more Rais..
Lol Amazon "best use for... cross country". That made me laugh out loud. Brilliant. Definitely see them taking off there 😂 thanks for the video
My downhill bike is hardtail over 30 years old and has it's original bars with a rise of 10mm and still manages to squeeze a reinforcing link across the rise. My 40 year old Folda has bars with a rise of 90mm. I wouldn't want to ride either of them on a downhill track but the Folda is good on snow 😁. Actually the 30 tear old is surprisingly fun on greens, in spite of being on rigid forks.
I would expect gmbn to get free bars from a decent sponsor, but I guess its more valuable to us consumers knowing a budget option would do the job
Changed mine to high rise bars with a height of 5 inches and boy it saved my shoulders. Also changed the saddle into a very wide with very thick cushion.
This is the same reason that super tall reversed stem was developed. The high handlebars are a much better choice though, for adjustability. Like the roll you mentioned changing the reach significantly.
It makes sense to me, in bmx *you* shift your weight through xyz. High bars are less twitchy, lets more of your torso be involved instead of just trapezius.
Ive Been riding high bars forever
I’ve just got a Strive on underdog and the first thing to go on it we’re 50mm Nico Vink bars. I’m 6’3 with long lanky legs and find the additional rise takes a bit of pressure off my back.
@ 9:19 that’s a Mountain Cycle San Andreas. I have one set up as a resto mod trail bike. You’ll have to ride it at Sea Otter. Unfortunately, the founder Robert Reisinger just passed away last May.
As far as high bars and high stack go, yes it is the future. But in the future, frames will be built around this concept. Which will make the concept better. It’s already starting to happen with higher stacks. It doesn’t change the weight bias of the bike. Especially, if you make the necessary suspension changes to get proper front and rear sag. It does take some time to get used to. The myth is, it’s harder to put good power down. This isn’t true. We all should be riding on 2 wheels like Jett Lawrence rides a dirt bike. That is riding from your feet, with your legs more straight, upper body in a more upright position, ass sticking out, head up with a strong core. Watch Ryan Huges or Rhyno Power videos on riding technique. It’s 100% adaptable to mountain bike riding. And it works!
If 100% of static weight is standing equally balanced on the pedals, the ratio of weight on the front and back tyres is the same as the ratio of front-centre and rear-centre. If you dynamically push on the bars exiting corners and other compressions, there is a weight shift to the front tyre which seems to help avoid under steering.
When your BB is below your axles it doesn’t matter if you even have handlebars. When you stand the weight distribution is set by the bike’s geometry almost exclusively.