@@TheButterShowThatsMe It would have been better if he put his actions where those laughs were. You don't medicate Donnie. Ffs, if he's scoring that high, then he's already pretty damn rare! You really want to play Russian roulette to see if you can turn him into a lobotomy patient like everyone else is? He just needed direction. Something to empower him. Yeah, he has to go through this dumb school full of dumb barely evolved lemurs, yadda yadda. So what? Just draw schematics and such. Do something. Read advanced chemistry while ignoring English. Whatever it takes to learn. No one cares about your grades when you're an adult. They care about what you can provide. If you got a juggernaut of an I.Q., you can do anything you want, as long as you're doing something. He should have been given encouragement, but the world hates excellence and it especially hates men. It wants slaves and it is every parent's job to deny the world that.
When they are discussing Fear and Love, Donnie is standing at 'Fear', the Teacher is standing at 'Love'. This is where Jim Cunningham and society would place them, Donnie speaking some real shit: 'Fear', Teacher buying into false, simple, pacifying narrative: 'Love'. This is how 'society' would place the two on the spectrum... then once Donnie starts really going in, to the point where he's so convincing the world seems crazy not him, he begins to move along the line. This is the 'whole spectrum of human emotion' that he refers to, that the teacher and Cunningham are trying to ignore. The space in between 'Fear' and 'Love'. He occupies it physically with his actions as well as with his words.
I think if she keeps or doesn't keep the wallet it would be motivated by a complex network of fears and loves. Basically we weigh pros and cons and that's how we make decisions, but there are always pros and cons. She is afraid of a deeper conceptualization of human emotion. She wants "fear equals bad" and "love is good" and that's not always the case. She could keep the wallet because she loves money, she could give it back because she fears getting caught. It seems everything does come down to opposites though. That can be seen everywhere, hot and cold, absences and presence, black and white, (black and white) vs a rainbow. [((black and white) vs rainbow) vs (greyscale vs rainbow)]. Essentially they embody opposite aspects of understanding of the network of how things work. Donnie understands that things are more complicated than that. She understands that things are simple. There are contradictory things, but they are both somewhat true. Reality is a complex thing, made from a much simpler set of rules than itself (consider how simple chess is to learn, vs to master, because that seems analogous). The movie is from his perspective, so we just believe him, but from hers, to the people who'd watch a movie from the general mindset presented here, her way of thinking makes sense to them.
Te B if you know you have to study for the math test then real work should be dedicated to mastering the task and moving forward to the next task. But the work done from studying for the math test should be enjoyed and loved while doing it ya?
Te B Over simplifications taught by dumbasses who are only regurgitating what they heard in a book and not coming to any conclusion them self? Yeah I’d say that’s about right.
@Julia Pigworthy ok, but you're not listening to me. There's other things that need to be take into account here, like THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF HUMAN EMOTIONS
Giving someone a ZERO for the day seems awfully FEARy and negative. The most positive and therefore LOVEy thing would be a 100. Maybe the teacher didn't get it.
PhrontDoor He got a negative a sign met so he was trying to stay way from the negativity thinking the teacher wanted him to speak negative not good in that question listen to it hard.
well it's funny that you say that because you can actually hear the terrified fear in her voice when she tells him she's going to give him Zero for the day. And trying to cover it with this fake smile.
God! This reminds me of several therapists ive talked to while being clinically depressed. Theyre advice/help has usually just been "Dont be so neg" and "be positive".
I hope your depression has been conquered. My compassions to you as I was in the same boat. I just decided to no longer ever be on meds and to take matters into my own hands. Not saying everyone can apply this, but for me it worked, I did the "pulled myself up by my bootstraps" method. My conclusion was I believe my depression was caused by a lack of feeling accepted and purpose. I hope you're staying strong. You can do this and godspeed on finding the method that works for you.
Holy shit please tell me this isn't real. What clown college did these "therapists" get their license from?? Please tell me you just got confused and thought random morons were real therapists. Because no actual therapist should spout such phenomenal bullshit that everyone with more than 2 brain cells knows just doesn't work. "Be positive" only works for minor annoyances when you're otherwise fine. It's basically a paper tissue. When you spill a bit of water, a paper tissue will probably be fine for getting rid of the spill. But if you're on a ship, there's a storm going on with torrential downpour, waves that blot out the sun, AND there is a hole in the hull big enough for a whale to swim through, that little Kleenex is going to do buggerall! Same with "think positive". It's something that can, with a minor effort, slightly improve your mood. Great for when your life on general is doing great, you're quite happy and content, but your cable goes out just when the last episode of your favorite TV show is about to air, or something similar. You put things in perspective and realize it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But if someone is in deep shit mentally, proper depressed, might or might not know where the depression comes from (because that's totally a thing. You can have severe depression without even consciously knowing why!), and probably needing all of his will power just to get out of bed, it's not going to do jack shit. First of all, that person might not even have the little extra power needed to "think positive". And even if they did, a small improvement in mood is not going to solve anything. Putting things in perspective won't do anything. It might even make things worse. I hope you managed to overcome your depression. And I hope you got some actual help instead of morons who aren't fit to be motivational speakers for snakes.
What most people appear to be missing here is that this scene originally feels like a deconstruction of how the education system fails to teach anything of substance to students, but it is also foreshadowing later events in the film. This scene is much more complex than it initially appears and it actually turns your original interpretation on its head if you look at events later in the film. SPOILERS! * * * AT THE END OF THE FILM...Donnie goes back in time and chooses to die to save Gretchen. He is afraid of dying, he could go on living, but he chooses to save her instead. The scene is initially showing how society views good and evil, god and the devil, how society transforms complex situations into simple binaries (burning down somebody's house is bad, but it could be good if it reveals that person was smuggling child pornography). But at the end of the film, there is a binary choice, between fear and love. What I like about this is that it shows that Donnie is right about some things in society, but he is also wrong about others. He is misguided almost as often as he is right, and there is a point to some of the seemingly stupid and banal things that adults are trying to teach him. In the end, he has to make an adult decision and sacrifice himself for the good of others, something which is never explicitly taught in school but which is repeated in themes throughout our culture. Donnie says that the world is complicated, that there are multiple factors to consider, but when it comes down to this big decision, there really is no ulterior option. He can either go back and die, or live knowing that Gretchen and Frank are dead. When we as humans are faced with the truly important decisions, life becomes more black and white, and our attempts to obscure it with variables end up being meaningless attempts to justify our own indecisiveness and fear.
I kept thinking about this scene lately. I always loved this scene, rooted for Donnie destroying Kitty and her shitty lesson. But lately I've been starting to see that a lot of things in people's lives really are coming from either fear or love. Donnie is right, in a way, world is complex, life is complex. But on the other hand, the fear-love spectrum is not as silly of a concept as I once thought.
Just watched this movie yesterday for the first time and you’ve encapsulated my thoughts perfectly!! I also thought that this fear/love dichotomy was bullshit but in the end, this is what Donnie had to choose between. Powerful.
This is not far removed from present day common core curriculum. Where the only "correct" answer is conforming to one single prescribed method. And where other creative processes that lead to the right answer are marked wrong. Conformity is rewarded and independent thinking is penalized.
the CORE focuses more on skill sets rather than methodologies (at least in the RL, RI, and W standards), so I'm not too sure what you are talking about. On your last point, that's just a social conditioning method because it is more valuable to have an obedient worker than a free thinker; but that kind of conditioning has been going on for decades.
@@delicheese6774 The universe only cares about results, and it's incredibly complicated. The people that try to avoid mistakes never get anywhere in life, while the people who fearlessly charge forward, tend to take everything. There's no "ceiling" on achievement either, nor is achievement even related to success. There's people who mastered their fate financially, but then have no real friends or social future. The biggest mistake of all, is being afraid to make mistakes. Be smart with risk, but don't be afraid of it. It's just a number, like everything else.
0:46 Cherita, aka "Chut Up", would later play the service station clerk in the third season episode of Breaking Bad, "Green Light", where she accepts a bit of Jesse's meth to pay for a tank of gas for the RV.
I like how she makes fear the enemy but she is the most frightful person in the movie. She goes to the PTA meeting and complains she is afraid about the books the English teacher is prescribing, she is afraid to have any real thoughts of her own and just regurgitates the self-help BS and when she’s confronted on the fact that it is BS she is afraid to even try to defend it because she doesn’t even understand the reasoning behind it herself.
The opposite of love is not hate; it's apathy. Kids will break their bones just to get attention when ignored for too long. People go insane when ignored for long enough. All those people on the streets stay in groups. Why? The idea that no one cares about them at all is infinitely more frightening and depressing, than the idea they may get mugged or killed. Apathy and narcissism is what will destroy this world, not hate. Hate means you still care.
It's kind of ironic how, even though the teacher is trying to preach basically that "love" is good and someone like Donnie who doesn't conform to the standards he is being presented with is riddled by "fear" and therefore is bad... the way the teacher seems to be in denial about Donnie's words, COULD be interpreted as her being afraid of him, because he is proposing a more complicated truth. In the same way, Donnie's perspective is surprisingly sensitive and comprehensive of the human emotion which COULD be more closely related to some kind of loving/compassionate feeling..
I think that's the idea the scene was aiming for. Categorising emotions on a spectrum between fear (avoiding negatives) and love (pursuing positives) isn't even a bad framework. The basic problem is that it's too simplistic (as Donnie touches on). A deeper problem is that the teacher is just pushing one framework as an unquestionable truth, as dogma, rather than allowing an open-ended discussion. What is emotion? What kind of entities experience emotions? What kinds of emotions are there? What causes different emotions? Finally, can we connect all of our knowledge about emotions into a broader theory? Those would be subjects for a class that respected the students' intelligence.
These movie is amazing and these is one of my favourite scenes because Donnie is speaking out loud that there's more things to worry than just fear and love and that's how u make character development
+Nik Kingman exactly. she didnt really know what she was saying, and neither did Donnie at this point, and they were absurdly fighting over something that neither of them had any knowledge about. But then Donnie comes to understand that truth and sacrifices himself
I felt like Donnie parents knew her back in her high school days as teenagers and probably know what she was like and deserved it. I mean who else calls her kitty?
This is a brilliant scene. And this is something that everything from the educational system, to the modern "quick fix" approach to therapy modalities like CBT seem to consistently adhere to. Life isn't that simple!
This has to be one of the most epic, amazing movie cuts EVER. The headmaster even starts speaking a split second before the picture cuts over, which gives the two scenes a stronger connection to each other. Just fantastic.
This scene was always incredibly disturbing for me. It's difficult to articulate why, but it gets me thinking about the real-life equivalents of the Kitty Farmer character. Shit like this is seriously introduced into the curriculum and school policies by her kind. They are vocal members of the PTA. They are the ones that start getting school districts to tell students that there is some bullshit "zero tolerance policy" on bullying even though their hands are tied about doing anything about it. Their projection of insecurity is strong. It's obnoxious. And calling them out about it only makes it worse with them. I really, really, really hate people who act like her. And they're everywhere. I want them all dead.
watch night mind on UA-cam he explained this film in such a way. idk honestly it made iy all the more powerful i had always had a good idea of the concepts in the film but Jesus he made it crystal clear
Lol, we have a "cultural marxism" trigger here. However, you are far from reality if you get these ideas from Kitty character. Kitty is the typical christian conservative Republicant, an archetype of how fundamentalists behave. Which means, she strongly supports traditionalism, clean spirit, high sense of race superiority and strong elitism just for the people's eyes and gossip status of course. In reality she is immoral, weak and dirty in mind, that is why so easilly she "sacrifices" her daughter...for a damn dance("if you puke honey during the dance due to stress, swallow it"). So much for morality ha? It is so obvious she is a Trump, Lepen etc fanatic. You see, the Kitty character is actually exactly what you are, a new right wannabe fascist, a conformist, a misanthropic little shit who spreads false love and "race union" for the masses, just to hide darker agenda("i want them all dead"). That is your(singular and plural) true face. She is you(singular and plural) and not what you try to blame. Kisses.
She could be stealing the money because she is being blackmailed,which makes it an act of fear but she could also be stealing it to help her father who is sick and cant afford treatment which is an act of love.Those two examples show how right Darko in this scene.
There are a huge variety of human traits that govern various behavior including greed, impulse, empathy, dishonesty, compulsive/obsessive, delusion, etc. completely unrelated to a "love/fear lifeline" which btw doesn't exist in human psychology. That is what Donnie is trying to point out to the simpleton teacher.
@@whensomethingcriesagain Not quite, greed and spite are just expressions of self-love. @socksumi greed is self-love, impulse is not an emotion, empathy is passive and would require an active motivator (usually love), dishonesty stems from fear (of the consequences of telling the truth), obsession and compulsion are not motivators (they are conditions), delusion is not a motivator I'm not trying to defend this binary, but I think about it all the time and I can't really find a way around it. There is one way: in which the binary eats itself to the point where the distinction between even fear and love ceases to exist.
@@whensomethingcriesagain dude you guys almost re-invented intersectionnalism in a 4 comment thread about Donnie Darko. i should find you people and make sure you never reproduce
This scene gets to me LOL. I felt she had something good going on there if she hadnt simplified human emotions, but say that "fear" and "love" are just two very powerful opposing paradigms, and that we get to choose which paradigm we'd like to live in. Because, even though there are other factors/emotions/paradigms to consider, the bigger picture is that they all ultimately fall between this polarity. But of course, this teacher represents how the educational system fails us. Even irritates us. This scene to me also shows how "authority" undermines the youth's intelligence, and not bother to encourage a conversation in an assignment like this from a nonjudgemental point of view. There are many ways to look at this of course, and thats one of the reasons why i think this is a great scene.
The teacher took the whole discussion with Donnie COMPLETELY out of context and became oblivious to everything else we SHOULD WORRY ABOUT! That's just...absurd!
those two guys looking at each other and smiling are exactly what people in my classes in High School used to do when a teacher would try to interact with me in a simplistic and prescribed manner...
Kitty is manipulated living. It’s no accident She’s showing Donnie this lesson. Ideas pop into our minds out of fear and love and the more we listen to one set of ideas the quieter the other becomes. If Ling Ling keeps the wallet its out of fear, what if she needs that money? If she gives it back its clearly out of love for her fellow person. Donnie needs to understand this to come to terms with his fate before the universe breaks down.
They lumped it into joy, disgust, anger, fear, and sadness. Technically, there's at least 32 emotions in the spectrum a person feels, and emotions aren't the only thing people make decisions on. There's also logic and morality as well.
Ik this comment is 5 years old, but if you actually watch Inside Out and not just the trailer, at the end of the film those 5 core emotions get mixed; they acknowledge that emotions are complex and blend. They showed how the main character Riley was sad when she lost her hockey game, but then she was happy again when her team and family came to cheer her up. And from then on she has feelings of happiness & joy, fear and disgust etc and not just one emotion. So they explicitly showed that they weren’t just lumping human decisions into 5 emotions alone, because they all mixed at the end and showed Riley’s decisions were based on multiple emotions working together at the same time. And Pixar probably couldn’t put all 32 emotions in their kids movie.
@@wrathofautumn lol wasnt that the whole point of the movie? Joy spent the entire film preaching about how negative Sadness was and she was committed to hiding sadness away. But at the end of the film, she realized that emotions are much more complex than the basic categories that Riley's mind has created, and she began to understood how truly complex the human mind is. Honestly when I broke free of my depression, I learned to understand that my mind is much more than just the basic emotions we train ourselves to feel. I think we have convinced ourselves that we have these different boxes that our brain is supposed to feel, but I think the human brain is much more complex than that.
This scene is incredible it reminds me of the importance of education not to sound grim it's like a baby hanging off the edge with no response except happy because they don't know the gravity hurt or pain of an actual fall
Who ever created the themes and scripts for this obviously had an great understanding of past lives and the afterlife. The other dimension... That's what fascinates me the most.
@@interlinkked It slipped past my radar completely at the time it came out & if I recall correctly, didn't do well at the box office. I attribute all that to the news about 9/11 happening at the same time. That overshadowed this movie. It wasn't an action-packed movie, but it was a cool mix of sci-fi, suspense, and drama, with dry humor thrown in.
Though I was here watching tributes for depression like Vanilla Sky Nothing Sigur Ros , Mad World Donnie Darko, Wh3re 1s mY M1nd.mpg Mr.Robot, I searched for loneliness and at the end of the video I just see his Father ... explosive reaction. I can say It made me actually almost smile
A lot of the teacher side of things reminds me of what the Left has become at this point. Wonder if there was any political motivation behind the movie, also going against Dukakis at the start, a Democratic nominee for President at the time the movie takes place.
@@echt114 I think she'd represent both or at least the world view does. Just like emotions aren't 1 dimensional neither is politics and it's frustrating that a first past the post voting system has forced it to be.
@@BlueBomberTurbo the teacher reminds me of old school christian conservatives that believed that anything outside of their beliefs was to be labeled as evil especially (free-thinkers) such as Donnie. The left is annoying but the right is badshit insane
The best part about this is where the mother has the talk with her after they left the principals office.. Mrs. Darko gets about 10 seconds of interaction with her and immediately realizes she's a damn lunatic. The father was already happy about the whole thing, but the mom was probably like wow.. Ok lets buy him a bunch of shit for actually putting up with this psycho.
She's just an innocent robot... (she does not know any better). Seeing her as "in need of the grace of you acting as the punisher of stupidity..." puts you in a place of another robot... reacting from the apparent opposite polarity...
I remember being a teenager who hated reductive wishy-washy 2D moral arguments but in the end fear and love really are our prime motivators. Denying the simplicity of sincere feelings at the sake of imagined ones is peak teenager.
She knows in her heart that she's not right, but most teachers react badly if you try to publicly question their credibility, especially in front of other students.
I fucking love Marina(former "and the Diamonds"), her music has served as a very important vehicle and pathway towards an artistic and cathartic translation of very bad moments I've been through in my life, and I regard her as a veeery deep artist. But lately this fear and love phase of hers is dreadful to me, except for a few tracks, I for the first time, am faced with a very shallow side of hers. Her work has always dived into various depths of human soul, from comsuption society, to liquid love, to junguian archetypes, and now she's able to talk about inner peace and to stress what otherness, what the concept of alterity stands for, so there's depth that can still be found in her more up to date work. Nevertheless, I only wish she could watch this scene, because in spite of the profoundness that can still be found in her art, she seems to be, erronously, lumping everything into these two incomplete categories. Although it still displays some depth, she's turned depth into some self-help kinda fragile thing.
Funny enough I think that what she is saying is actually true - and Kelly is subtly trying to assert this truth throughout the film. However, she doesn't really have any understanding of why actions are motivated by either fear or love, nor do many other characters in this film including Donnie (obviously because he doesn't believe her, but his response to her is anger, which arises from fear).
Fear & Love is actually a kind of interesting dichotomy to set-up, as it obviously defies expectations, as we are used to seeing love opposed by hate, fear opposed by bravery etc. That being said, the whole framework of the exercise is reductive & oversimplified.
I would like to make a comparison to a video about Kaki Deishu but I can’t find the right words to phrase it in so look up “Is Kaiki A Good Person” and the video by Under The Scope is a good analysis on the whole “grayness” of people
Actually "fear and love" could be really applied. However, this shouldn't makes decisions one dimensional. It is useful to analyze attitude of any decision but to understand each decisions completely that line is not enough. Analyzing human behavior through that way is really one of the most ineffective methods.
I think the teacher actress deserves a lot of the credit for how good this scene is.
she's so annoying, i really don't like her as a character, and if I hate her so much, it means she's a really good actress, so yeah you're right !
That's Beth Grant, brilliant actress, really good at playing hateable characters.
Typically the actors who play such detestable characters are usually good people.
Well the writing kinda helps lol
I loved to hate her, she is so grating. That bitch needed to actually attend grad school lol (the character, not the actress)
The dad laughing at it (at the end) is the best part. Shouldn't have cut it so short, it shows his reaction.
after that.in the car his dad laugh out loud.
Plus donnies evil but satisfied smile behind him lmao
That laugh is one of my favourite moments in any movie. The father is fantastic in this movie. Although every thing about the movie is great!
Yeah when he laughs and pretends to cough lol so me 😂
I actually like it cut off, more comedic punch
The dad's laugh at the end gets me every time. Love this movie.
A sign of good parenting.
@@TheButterShowThatsMe
It would have been better if he put his actions where those laughs were. You don't medicate Donnie. Ffs, if he's scoring that high, then he's already pretty damn rare! You really want to play Russian roulette to see if you can turn him into a lobotomy patient like everyone else is?
He just needed direction. Something to empower him. Yeah, he has to go through this dumb school full of dumb barely evolved lemurs, yadda yadda. So what? Just draw schematics and such. Do something. Read advanced chemistry while ignoring English. Whatever it takes to learn.
No one cares about your grades when you're an adult. They care about what you can provide. If you got a juggernaut of an I.Q., you can do anything you want, as long as you're doing something.
He should have been given encouragement, but the world hates excellence and it especially hates men. It wants slaves and it is every parent's job to deny the world that.
When they are discussing Fear and Love, Donnie is standing at 'Fear', the Teacher is standing at 'Love'. This is where Jim Cunningham and society would place them, Donnie speaking some real shit: 'Fear', Teacher buying into false, simple, pacifying narrative: 'Love'. This is how 'society' would place the two on the spectrum... then once Donnie starts really going in, to the point where he's so convincing the world seems crazy not him, he begins to move along the line.
This is the 'whole spectrum of human emotion' that he refers to, that the teacher and Cunningham are trying to ignore. The space in between 'Fear' and 'Love'. He occupies it physically with his actions as well as with his words.
jack dalziel dude.... Thats awesome. Didn't think of that. 👌🏼
DAAAANG. THAT IS DEEEEP. Oh my gosh.😄😃
CHUT UP!
I think if she keeps or doesn't keep the wallet it would be motivated by a complex network of fears and loves. Basically we weigh pros and cons and that's how we make decisions, but there are always pros and cons. She is afraid of a deeper conceptualization of human emotion. She wants "fear equals bad" and "love is good" and that's not always the case. She could keep the wallet because she loves money, she could give it back because she fears getting caught. It seems everything does come down to opposites though. That can be seen everywhere, hot and cold, absences and presence, black and white, (black and white) vs a rainbow. [((black and white) vs rainbow) vs (greyscale vs rainbow)]. Essentially they embody opposite aspects of understanding of the network of how things work. Donnie understands that things are more complicated than that. She understands that things are simple. There are contradictory things, but they are both somewhat true. Reality is a complex thing, made from a much simpler set of rules than itself (consider how simple chess is to learn, vs to master, because that seems analogous). The movie is from his perspective, so we just believe him, but from hers, to the people who'd watch a movie from the general mindset presented here, her way of thinking makes sense to them.
jack dalziel, good observation. 👏 👏
That sums ups how the educational system works
Te B
Yep... It's all just black and white to them.
Te B if you know you have to study for the math test then real work should be dedicated to mastering the task and moving forward to the next task. But the work done from studying for the math test should be enjoyed and loved while doing it ya?
And eventually the educational system will be replaced with edutainment videos from UA-cam.
Te B Over simplifications taught by dumbasses who are only regurgitating what they heard in a book and not coming to any conclusion them self? Yeah I’d say that’s about right.
Job489
and.... porn_hub.
Jake nailed that role, I don't care who disagrees.
POMax Jake Gyllenhaal is Donnie Darko.
does anyone disagree?!
Not caring who disagrees is a product of fear lol.
@Julia Pigworthy ok, but you're not listening to me. There's other things that need to be take into account here, like THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF HUMAN EMOTIONS
LOL I wanted to comment this bro@@juliapigworthy
The "heh" at the end is the most hilarious half second in the history of cinema.
She could not have delivered that line any better! What a great actress! Freakin hilarious!
COOLEST DAD IN THE GALAXY!!!
yondu
THIS WATER IS DRY LMAO omg you’re the goat
facts@@ficoh634
"EH"
died there
Same ahhahahah
Giving someone a ZERO for the day seems awfully FEARy and negative. The most positive and therefore LOVEy thing would be a 100.
Maybe the teacher didn't get it.
Technically the "Lifeline Spectrum" thingy didn't stipulate one emotion over the other.
PhrontDoor He got a negative a sign met so he was trying to stay way from the negativity thinking the teacher wanted him to speak negative not good in that question listen to it hard.
Discipline is a form of love.
well it's funny that you say that because you can actually hear the terrified fear in her voice when she tells him she's going to give him Zero for the day. And trying to cover it with this fake smile.
God! This reminds me of several therapists ive talked to while being clinically depressed. Theyre advice/help has usually just been "Dont be so neg" and "be positive".
Lol
Aint no therapist but please take care of yourself
I hope your depression has been conquered. My compassions to you as I was in the same boat. I just decided to no longer ever be on meds and to take matters into my own hands. Not saying everyone can apply this, but for me it worked, I did the "pulled myself up by my bootstraps" method. My conclusion was I believe my depression was caused by a lack of feeling accepted and purpose. I hope you're staying strong. You can do this and godspeed on finding the method that works for you.
Holy shit please tell me this isn't real. What clown college did these "therapists" get their license from?? Please tell me you just got confused and thought random morons were real therapists.
Because no actual therapist should spout such phenomenal bullshit that everyone with more than 2 brain cells knows just doesn't work. "Be positive" only works for minor annoyances when you're otherwise fine.
It's basically a paper tissue. When you spill a bit of water, a paper tissue will probably be fine for getting rid of the spill. But if you're on a ship, there's a storm going on with torrential downpour, waves that blot out the sun, AND there is a hole in the hull big enough for a whale to swim through, that little Kleenex is going to do buggerall!
Same with "think positive". It's something that can, with a minor effort, slightly improve your mood. Great for when your life on general is doing great, you're quite happy and content, but your cable goes out just when the last episode of your favorite TV show is about to air, or something similar. You put things in perspective and realize it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
But if someone is in deep shit mentally, proper depressed, might or might not know where the depression comes from (because that's totally a thing. You can have severe depression without even consciously knowing why!), and probably needing all of his will power just to get out of bed, it's not going to do jack shit. First of all, that person might not even have the little extra power needed to "think positive". And even if they did, a small improvement in mood is not going to solve anything. Putting things in perspective won't do anything. It might even make things worse.
I hope you managed to overcome your depression. And I hope you got some actual help instead of morons who aren't fit to be motivational speakers for snakes.
@@KaeYoss likely from drug dealers
What most people appear to be missing here is that this scene originally feels like a deconstruction of how the education system fails to teach anything of substance to students, but it is also foreshadowing later events in the film. This scene is much more complex than it initially appears and it actually turns your original interpretation on its head if you look at events later in the film.
SPOILERS!
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*
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AT THE END OF THE FILM...Donnie goes back in time and chooses to die to save Gretchen. He is afraid of dying, he could go on living, but he chooses to save her instead. The scene is initially showing how society views good and evil, god and the devil, how society transforms complex situations into simple binaries (burning down somebody's house is bad, but it could be good if it reveals that person was smuggling child pornography). But at the end of the film, there is a binary choice, between fear and love. What I like about this is that it shows that Donnie is right about some things in society, but he is also wrong about others. He is misguided almost as often as he is right, and there is a point to some of the seemingly stupid and banal things that adults are trying to teach him. In the end, he has to make an adult decision and sacrifice himself for the good of others, something which is never explicitly taught in school but which is repeated in themes throughout our culture. Donnie says that the world is complicated, that there are multiple factors to consider, but when it comes down to this big decision, there really is no ulterior option. He can either go back and die, or live knowing that Gretchen and Frank are dead. When we as humans are faced with the truly important decisions, life becomes more black and white, and our attempts to obscure it with variables end up being meaningless attempts to justify our own indecisiveness and fear.
This is a great comment
I kept thinking about this scene lately. I always loved this scene, rooted for Donnie destroying Kitty and her shitty lesson. But lately I've been starting to see that a lot of things in people's lives really are coming from either fear or love. Donnie is right, in a way, world is complex, life is complex. But on the other hand, the fear-love spectrum is not as silly of a concept as I once thought.
Well, the lifeline is divided that way.
Wow! Love this review
Just watched this movie yesterday for the first time and you’ve encapsulated my thoughts perfectly!! I also thought that this fear/love dichotomy was bullshit but in the end, this is what Donnie had to choose between. Powerful.
This is not far removed from present day common core curriculum. Where the only "correct" answer is conforming to one single prescribed method. And where other creative processes that lead to the right answer are marked wrong. Conformity is rewarded and independent thinking is penalized.
You must conform to the MACHINE!
the CORE focuses more on skill sets rather than methodologies (at least in the RL, RI, and W standards), so I'm not too sure what you are talking about. On your last point, that's just a social conditioning method because it is more valuable to have an obedient worker than a free thinker; but that kind of conditioning has been going on for decades.
@@delicheese6774
The universe only cares about results, and it's incredibly complicated. The people that try to avoid mistakes never get anywhere in life, while the people who fearlessly charge forward, tend to take everything. There's no "ceiling" on achievement either, nor is achievement even related to success. There's people who mastered their fate financially, but then have no real friends or social future.
The biggest mistake of all, is being afraid to make mistakes. Be smart with risk, but don't be afraid of it. It's just a number, like everything else.
10/10 acting from Jake, that moment where you can see him trying to suppress the urge to insult the teacher, then mentally gives in is beautiful
0:46
Cherita, aka "Chut Up", would later play the service station clerk in the third season episode of Breaking Bad, "Green Light", where she accepts a bit of Jesse's meth to pay for a tank of gas for the RV.
Wow the racist comments really got to her if she's resorting to blue meth.
Woah, really? I didn't know that :D
Chris and what's her face from OITNB
She accepted that meth as a product of Fear :(
WHATTTT THATS HERRRRRR huge fan of both and had no idea
I like how she makes fear the enemy but she is the most frightful person in the movie. She goes to the PTA meeting and complains she is afraid about the books the English teacher is prescribing, she is afraid to have any real thoughts of her own and just regurgitates the self-help BS and when she’s confronted on the fact that it is BS she is afraid to even try to defend it because she doesn’t even understand the reasoning behind it herself.
Projection be like
LING LING
Herro, my name is ringu ringu desu.
Moshi moshi spiderman desu
Into battle go
what the fuck is everyone talking about😂😂
These comments 😂😂😂
Things aren't that simple
☁️ boyz
@@AngelIsSleepyy splash
I was always wondering what was the original sample Oliver used lol
The opposite of love is not hate; it's apathy. Kids will break their bones just to get attention when ignored for too long. People go insane when ignored for long enough. All those people on the streets stay in groups. Why? The idea that no one cares about them at all is infinitely more frightening and depressing, than the idea they may get mugged or killed.
Apathy and narcissism is what will destroy this world, not hate. Hate means you still care.
"No duh is a product of fear."
Oh wow, that's telling him Miss Farmer
You know what Worthy? Sometimes I Doubt Your Commitment to Sparkle Motion.
It's kind of ironic how, even though the teacher is trying to preach basically that "love" is good and someone like Donnie who doesn't conform to the standards he is being presented with is riddled by "fear" and therefore is bad... the way the teacher seems to be in denial about Donnie's words, COULD be interpreted as her being afraid of him, because he is proposing a more complicated truth. In the same way, Donnie's perspective is surprisingly sensitive and comprehensive of the human emotion which COULD be more closely related to some kind of loving/compassionate feeling..
I think that's the idea the scene was aiming for.
Categorising emotions on a spectrum between fear (avoiding negatives) and love (pursuing positives) isn't even a bad framework. The basic problem is that it's too simplistic (as Donnie touches on). A deeper problem is that the teacher is just pushing one framework as an unquestionable truth, as dogma, rather than allowing an open-ended discussion.
What is emotion? What kind of entities experience emotions? What kinds of emotions are there? What causes different emotions? Finally, can we connect all of our knowledge about emotions into a broader theory? Those would be subjects for a class that respected the students' intelligence.
These movie is amazing and these is one of my favourite scenes because Donnie is speaking out loud that there's more things to worry than just fear and love and that's how u make character development
+Nik Kingman exactly. she didnt really know what she was saying, and neither did Donnie at this point, and they were absurdly fighting over something that neither of them had any knowledge about. But then Donnie comes to understand that truth and sacrifices himself
Love Eddie's laugh at the end 😂 I wish I'd had a bit more Donnie spirit when I was a kid!
I felt like Donnie parents knew her back in her high school days as teenagers and probably know what she was like and deserved it. I mean who else calls her kitty?
I honestly think a lot more people need to see this movie, or at least this scene. This is what I recall most of the movie these days.
I really love this scene.
This is a brilliant scene. And this is something that everything from the educational system, to the modern "quick fix" approach to therapy modalities like CBT seem to consistently adhere to. Life isn't that simple!
that ending tho XD
This has to be one of the most epic, amazing movie cuts EVER.
The headmaster even starts speaking a split second before the picture cuts over, which gives the two scenes a stronger connection to each other. Just fantastic.
This scene was always incredibly disturbing for me.
It's difficult to articulate why, but it gets me thinking about the real-life equivalents of the Kitty Farmer character.
Shit like this is seriously introduced into the curriculum and school policies by her kind. They are vocal members of the PTA. They are the ones that start getting school districts to tell students that there is some bullshit "zero tolerance policy" on bullying even though their hands are tied about doing anything about it.
Their projection of insecurity is strong. It's obnoxious. And calling them out about it only makes it worse with them.
I really, really, really hate people who act like her. And they're everywhere. I want them all dead.
watch night mind on UA-cam he explained this film in such a way. idk honestly it made iy all the more powerful i had always had a good idea of the concepts in the film but Jesus he made it crystal clear
marry me
Jose the Bioform What do you mean?
Lol, we have a "cultural marxism" trigger here. However, you are far from reality if you get these ideas from Kitty character.
Kitty is the typical christian conservative Republicant, an archetype of how fundamentalists behave. Which means, she strongly supports traditionalism, clean spirit, high sense of race superiority and strong elitism just for the people's eyes and gossip status of course. In reality she is immoral, weak and dirty in mind, that is why so easilly she "sacrifices" her daughter...for a damn dance("if you puke honey during the dance due to stress, swallow it"). So much for morality ha? It is so obvious she is a Trump, Lepen etc fanatic.
You see, the Kitty character is actually exactly what you are, a new right wannabe fascist, a conformist, a misanthropic little shit who spreads false love and "race union" for the masses, just to hide darker agenda("i want them all dead"). That is your(singular and plural) true face.
She is you(singular and plural) and not what you try to blame.
Kisses.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
She could be stealing the money because she is being blackmailed,which makes it an act of fear but she could also be stealing it to help her father who is sick and cant afford treatment which is an act of love.Those two examples show how right Darko in this scene.
Or she could just steal it out of greed, or spite, or any other reason, which have nothing to do with fear or love
There are a huge variety of human traits that govern various behavior including greed, impulse, empathy, dishonesty, compulsive/obsessive, delusion, etc. completely unrelated to a "love/fear lifeline" which btw doesn't exist in human psychology. That is what Donnie is trying to point out to the simpleton teacher.
@@whensomethingcriesagain Not quite, greed and spite are just expressions of self-love.
@socksumi
greed is self-love, impulse is not an emotion, empathy is passive and would require an active motivator (usually love), dishonesty stems from fear (of the consequences of telling the truth), obsession and compulsion are not motivators (they are conditions), delusion is not a motivator
I'm not trying to defend this binary, but I think about it all the time and I can't really find a way around it. There is one way: in which the binary eats itself to the point where the distinction between even fear and love ceases to exist.
@@delicheese6774 Spite is not self love, it's usually anger. Greed is also not self love, it's a wholly unique emotion that often becomes toxic
@@whensomethingcriesagain dude you guys almost re-invented intersectionnalism in a 4 comment thread about Donnie Darko. i should find you people and make sure you never reproduce
*FEAR* is the Agenda.
*_LOVE_* is the Revolution.
Is that fucking Seth rogan?
Yes it is, his first line in this movie: "I like your boobs."
and the vocalist from phantom planet
Sam Henri that was actually the first line of his career
Check out the show freeks and geeks if u wanna see younger versions of him james franco and jason seagul or whatever his last name is
And joe jonas
Beth Grant is one of the most under appreciated actor around
"GET OFF THE STAGE CHERITA!"
Cher Horowitz chut up
This scene gets to me LOL. I felt she had something good going on there if she hadnt simplified human emotions, but say that "fear" and "love" are just two very powerful opposing paradigms, and that we get to choose which paradigm we'd like to live in. Because, even though there are other factors/emotions/paradigms to consider, the bigger picture is that they all ultimately fall between this polarity. But of course, this teacher represents how the educational system fails us. Even irritates us. This scene to me also shows how "authority" undermines the youth's intelligence, and not bother to encourage a conversation in an assignment like this from a nonjudgemental point of view. There are many ways to look at this of course, and thats one of the reasons why i think this is a great scene.
The cut off off before he starts cussing is priceless💀💀🤣
The teacher took the whole discussion with Donnie COMPLETELY out of context and became oblivious to everything else we SHOULD WORRY ABOUT! That's just...absurd!
those two guys looking at each other and smiling are exactly what people in my classes in High School used to do when a teacher would try to interact with me in a simplistic and prescribed manner...
Kitty is manipulated living. It’s no accident
She’s showing Donnie this lesson. Ideas pop into our minds out of fear and love and the more we listen to one set of ideas the quieter the other becomes.
If Ling Ling keeps the wallet its out of fear, what if she needs that money? If she gives it back its clearly out of love for her fellow person. Donnie needs to understand this to come to terms with his fate before the universe breaks down.
why does the principal look exactly like the mayor from lazytown 😭😭😭
PartyPoison1009 Omg He does!😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂
PartyPoison1009 Oh my gosh, yes.😂😂😂
(Also, I'm sorry in advance.) AYYYY a tøp fan!😆
Whoa you're right.. xD (also nice prøfile pic)
This scene is the perfect example of the 2 party system... “life is just not that simple”...
Funnily enough, this applies to the movie inside out as well, where they lumped every decision a person made into five categories.
what are the 5 categories?
They lumped it into joy, disgust, anger, fear, and sadness. Technically, there's at least 32 emotions in the spectrum a person feels, and emotions aren't the only thing people make decisions on. There's also logic and morality as well.
Ik this comment is 5 years old, but if you actually watch Inside Out and not just the trailer, at the end of the film those 5 core emotions get mixed; they acknowledge that emotions are complex and blend.
They showed how the main character Riley was sad when she lost her hockey game, but then she was happy again when her team and family came to cheer her up. And from then on she has feelings of happiness & joy, fear and disgust etc and not just one emotion. So they explicitly showed that they weren’t just lumping human decisions into 5 emotions alone, because they all mixed at the end and showed Riley’s decisions were based on multiple emotions working together at the same time. And Pixar probably couldn’t put all 32 emotions in their kids movie.
@@wrathofautumn lol wasnt that the whole point of the movie? Joy spent the entire film preaching about how negative Sadness was and she was committed to hiding sadness away. But at the end of the film, she realized that emotions are much more complex than the basic categories that Riley's mind has created, and she began to understood how truly complex the human mind is.
Honestly when I broke free of my depression, I learned to understand that my mind is much more than just the basic emotions we train ourselves to feel. I think we have convinced ourselves that we have these different boxes that our brain is supposed to feel, but I think the human brain is much more complex than that.
This always makes me chuckle!
One of the best scenes in the movie along with the on where he confronts the self help scam guy.
My mom acts like this teacher, and I get in trouble for reading or watching stuff like Donnie Darko
His shoulder language said it all. Great acting at that age, and more came later.
Man, I bursted into laughter when Donnie s father gave that jerk after hearing Kitty's explanation....😂😂😂
This scene is incredible it reminds me of the importance of education not to sound grim it's like a baby hanging off the edge with no response except happy because they don't know the gravity hurt or pain of an actual fall
This is how teachers be acting when we speak fax they find another excuse but get mad at us when we make excuses
just how school fucking works
One of the greatest edits ever
Who ever created the themes and scripts for this obviously had an great understanding of past lives and the afterlife. The other dimension...
That's what fascinates me the most.
I love this movie the randomness of the scene, very clever.
If 9/11 hadn't happened, this movie would've been so big when it came out. Now it's thankfully a cult classic.
can u explain why it would have been big no hate just curious
@@interlinkked It slipped past my radar completely at the time it came out & if I recall correctly, didn't do well at the box office. I attribute all that to the news about 9/11 happening at the same time. That overshadowed this movie. It wasn't an action-packed movie, but it was a cool mix of sci-fi, suspense, and drama, with dry humor thrown in.
@@THE_CORNELIUS I didn't know that.
Fun fact: MODERN FEAR by Mind's Eye sampled this at the end of their song. It's a pretty good song for those indie lovers out there.
Donnie has a fantastic point in this.
This is a total masterpiece of a film
I've heard miss Kitty Farmer now does Ted Talks...
Kitty Farmer crap is what most TEDx talks have turned into unfortunately.
She was also the teacher in Child’s Play 2.
Can you imagine Donnie heckling her from the audience? "I'm gonna smash a jet engine turbine through your house, bitch." 😂
Though I was here watching tributes for depression like Vanilla Sky Nothing Sigur Ros , Mad World Donnie Darko, Wh3re 1s mY M1nd.mpg Mr.Robot, I searched for loneliness and at the end of the video I just see his Father ... explosive reaction. I can say It made me actually almost smile
That lady is a fantastic actor.
GOD BLESS Beth Grant!!! Hands down, my fav scene in this amazing movie!
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!
This scene reminds me of how the left and right argue online about all issues. Its either good or bad.
A lot of the teacher side of things reminds me of what the Left has become at this point. Wonder if there was any political motivation behind the movie, also going against Dukakis at the start, a Democratic nominee for President at the time the movie takes place.
"left and right"
You just did it yourself
@@BlueBomberTurbo You've got it backwards. She would represent the right.
@@echt114 I think she'd represent both or at least the world view does.
Just like emotions aren't 1 dimensional neither is politics and it's frustrating that a first past the post voting system has forced it to be.
@@BlueBomberTurbo the teacher reminds me of old school christian conservatives that believed that anything outside of their beliefs was to be labeled as evil especially (free-thinkers) such as Donnie. The left is annoying but the right is badshit insane
The dad said some of the most real things in this movie.
Especially his talk with Donnie in the garden after Donnie has been out all night.
his dad laughing is the best part
things aren't that simple. Best sample ever and best mixtape i've ever heard
If you know you know
Oliver Francis 💯💯🐐
@@colinftp3288 yessir
is it just me or is donnie right?
duh
Thegabrix99 excuse me? No, "duh" is a product of fear.
The Slam Dream Yes and no. To be perfectly honest. It’s a matter of perspective.
no, I think the bitch teacher is right. I believe that all choices in life come down to either fear and love. Fight me.
yes, donnie is right
Love the scene, love the movie and love the song! 🖤🤘🏻🖤🤘🏻😍
Mrs Farmer's reaction is a product of fear! Fear]--x-----[Love
THANK YOU! just the clip I've been looking for ^^
The best part about this is where the mother has the talk with her after they left the principals office.. Mrs. Darko gets about 10 seconds of interaction with her and immediately realizes she's a damn lunatic. The father was already happy about the whole thing, but the mom was probably like wow.. Ok lets buy him a bunch of shit for actually putting up with this psycho.
She's just an innocent robot... (she does not know any better). Seeing her as "in need of the grace of you acting as the punisher of stupidity..." puts you in a place of another robot... reacting from the apparent opposite polarity...
It's funny how sexy jake is even as a complete crazy dude. If this dude was in my school being exactly how he is, I would be totally in love with him.
Thank you for this Grant. I appreciate you ❤️
I was so shocked by the end I had to go back and watch it again the actress that teacher just made it funny
I remember being a teenager who hated reductive wishy-washy 2D moral arguments but in the end fear and love really are our prime motivators. Denying the simplicity of sincere feelings at the sake of imagined ones is peak teenager.
A line is actually one-dimensional. Even the most reductionist models of human emotions identify at least six basic emotions.
She knows in her heart that she's not right, but most teachers react badly if you try to publicly question their credibility, especially in front of other students.
I fucking love Marina(former "and the Diamonds"), her music has served as a very important vehicle and pathway towards an artistic and cathartic translation of very bad moments I've been through in my life, and I regard her as a veeery deep artist. But lately this fear and love phase of hers is dreadful to me, except for a few tracks, I for the first time, am faced with a very shallow side of hers. Her work has always dived into various depths of human soul, from comsuption society, to liquid love, to junguian archetypes, and now she's able to talk about inner peace and to stress what otherness, what the concept of alterity stands for, so there's depth that can still be found in her more up to date work. Nevertheless, I only wish she could watch this scene, because in spite of the profoundness that can still be found in her art, she seems to be, erronously, lumping everything into these two incomplete categories. Although it still displays some depth, she's turned depth into some self-help kinda fragile thing.
omg his dads chuckle at the end killed me XD
This movie was amazing
Well Donnie says the things how things actually are, a movie that says that super sanity can be seen as insanity
A legend.
that dad laughing at the end is all of us cuz she's so ridiculous
I love this movie though very unique to understand it.
2:53 me whenever my son will do something like that in his school 🔥🔥🔥
Seth Rogan at 1:54
Funny enough I think that what she is saying is actually true - and Kelly is subtly trying to assert this truth throughout the film. However, she doesn't really have any understanding of why actions are motivated by either fear or love, nor do many other characters in this film including Donnie (obviously because he doesn't believe her, but his response to her is anger, which arises from fear).
lmao when i heard this line i was like oh shit thats what oliver francis sampled for the tag
Dwight's babysitter was also a school teacher?!
Donnie is actually smarter than his teacher.
Fear & Love is actually a kind of interesting dichotomy to set-up, as it obviously defies expectations, as we are used to seeing love opposed by hate, fear opposed by bravery etc. That being said, the whole framework of the exercise is reductive & oversimplified.
Things aren’t that simple~
I think Donnie works on a Grey/Gray Mortality.
I would like to make a comparison to a video about Kaki Deishu but I can’t find the right words to phrase it in so look up “Is Kaiki A Good Person” and the video by Under The Scope is a good analysis on the whole “grayness” of people
Miss Farmer just got an education courtesy of the school of Darko
Best father!
Actually "fear and love" could be really applied. However, this shouldn't makes decisions one dimensional. It is useful to analyze attitude of any decision but to understand each decisions completely that line is not enough. Analyzing human behavior through that way is really one of the most ineffective methods.
I would've put an X exactly at the center.
So you did it but you didn't feel a thing?
He sees her innocence tho
Donnies dad is the best
Spectacular dad haha
Polarization, he moves into the middle of the board, by choosing to not participate in the exercise, by not picking a side, he becomes depolarized.