thank you for this interview. it's been only several months that i came to the universal unconditional love of god (that I actually believed and experienced when i first believed in the lord, but then the church...took it away) and i am deeply moved and deeply grateful and happy. my whole life i searched for god..and never was satisfied until my christ experience..unfortunatly, for 7 years into faith i kept digging more and more because the doctrines that i was thaught started to really poison and kill me. i was a depressed suicidal girl before coming to christ, so the idea of hell was the most horrible one. i almost got insane because of pain for my loved ones. i was living in dispair and pain and fear and doubts (what if i..fall from grace somehow? repentence never looked enough or sincere..) then i started to learn the torah and go with this wind. i thought god's will is for me to be holy and following the lord in all the things i can. i was called heretic and apostate, lost all my brothers and sisters that probably still weep for me as i will burn in hell. after some years of torah wannabe..i understood that I CANNOT DO IT! and it's totally fine. because i am super loved and cared for my Abba..and nothing ever will change his heart from me. or anyone else. now i am sure i am heretic and apostate for the messianic comunities also..i find no more place in christianity and it's just awkward. at the begining i was terrified, now i am really fine with it. i miss comunity, hope to..receive again a healthy one. it's been 2 years without and it's not what it should be..but the traumas still keep me away and hurted. manipulation, fear inducing doctrines, phariseism, hipocrisy, religiosity, rituals..all these things trigger in me anger and pain..even if i love everyone and i really forgave whoever did whatever to me..how could i not forgive? i was one of them..sending people into eternal fire..may our father be praised for his love and forgivness
Thankyou for your honest and moving story. Very, very similar to my own story on so many points. I was depressed and desperate when I got radically saved in 2001. I went to a wonderful church but felt I needed to go to a smaller 'more 'biblically serious' church closer to where I live. The doctrines and teaching literally do poison and bring death. Ten years after leaving that extremely controlling, Law-based and cult-like church (which I'd become part of the leadership in my ignorance and deception) I still find the idea of church fills me with fear and anxiety. I find that I am hyper-sensitive now to even the subtle control that pastors, preaching and church systems bring. It makes me want to run! Though I have spent many years re-learning what the Gospel actually is and how Law and grace are so totally opposed to each other I still battle condemnation and the heaviness that that church put on me almost daily. So many stories and comments on here have made me realise how common this is and how evil it is. Sometimes I catch a glimpse again of how lovely my Father is and how He has continued to guide and bless me and my family and I am so grateful. But I long to know again the joy and freedom I knew in the few years after I got saved and to be free from the paralysing indecision over the smallest things, the cycles of guilt and heaviness that still rests in my soul from the time at that church.
@@jameswhite7997 I also thank you for you sharing your experience. i think we heal others when we share and we are being healed ourselves..as a reply to both you and me and other people out there, i believe there is deep hope to have pure joy into Christ again even after the most painful church experiences: being like children in relation with our father. day by day. and leting ourselves be the way we are, knowing we are deeply loved by Him. learning to be in a specific state of heart and mind rooted in his love. i learnt that..if there is a precious thing here on earth that we will not experience anymore in the eternal life..is healing. healing is a beautiful and intimate thing between the hurted and his Creator. and it's something that when and after we go through..no one and no thing can ever take it away anymore. peace, brother! may the abundant life giving spirit of love and truth and joy and peace fill you each day!
@@jameswhite7997 i recommend you freedom ministries (mike popovich) i found this in the right season. several years ago i would have rejected amlost everything he said calling him a heretic (it's funny how true is the saying: do not judge, so you will not be judged. the standards thst we judge others will sooner or later apply to..us) i listen to him almost daily in the last month..it boost my faith and trust again..and gives me directions in what actually means to "walk with the lord". maybe it would be something suitable for you. paul young's testimony also is very touching on some aspects..the one who wrote the shack. peace!
@Shira Roxana, I am so happy that you are on a good path with love and peace. Paul Young is really a great dude. Has a lot of life-giving thoughts to share. I know about the calling people a "heretic" thing... ob boy, I've been there as well. Blessings to you!
Keep posting this stuff and continue having these healthy conversations.......If it wasn't for guys like Brad I would of tossed it all out the door......Jesus and all.. Thank you!
Over 40 years ago, before this stuff was around, I did exactly that. I threw out the baby with the bath water because the bath water had become so dark that I could no longer see the baby. After becoming an atheist, flirting with Buddhism, and looking into other Eastern paths, I have taken the long way around. I am now back, but with new eyes.
Thanks for your comments, Brad. They were healing for me this morning with all the Covid stuff going on and feeling isolated. Twenty five years ago, a church destroyed my first marriage; though I've remarried and have a basically happy life now, I've never really gotten over it.
Christina- thank you so much for your channel! First came across your interviews with the authors of Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and love your conversation with Brad here and David Hayward.
The interview you had with C. Baxter Kruger was instrumental in transforming my life! It was during that interview, that the lights came on and I could see!
I am listening to your April 20th talk now on you tube waiting for my own church service to begin online...I am really listening closely to this conversation and it bears witness to me as a believer in Jesus. Brad, I just bought your book "A More a Christlike God" on Kobo. This is a real eye-opener. However, I have always wondered about why there are control issues in some parts of the Church. End times teaching can be so condemning. I am in a mainline Church for nearly the past 10 years. I have had considerable experience, unfortunately, in controlling Evangelical Churches, most notably, centered around excessive Israel teaching, very long services, and another church early on in another location up north in Ontario that had a strong emphasis on prosperity....unbalanced. For example, in the early 1980's, I was in the ushering ministry but we HAD TO BE at the church EVERY SATURDAY night for practice sessions!. I have gotten over a lot of this now, but Brad Jersak your discussion here is refreshing. I sorry, I do not know the lady's name in this discussion.
My name is Christina! Thanks for your comment, Terry! You might also enjoy the conversation I got to have with David Hayward, we speak a lot about systemic abuse (on my UA-cam channel) and how healthy community could look like.
The question I ask myself about my choices is... Is this life affirming? I know that the answer to that is not black and white and requires me to consider and decide. I also know what I think is life affirming today may not be life affirming 10 or 200 years from now; however, I can only make decisions based on my understanding now. Where unintended consequences could be great or affect others, then I'm called (it's my responsibility) to consult with others and/or with one or people who have more knowledge than I have. In a way, greater potential consequences requires a greater standard of care.
Thanks for teaching the good news! We need to repent of the un-Christ like God! The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Jesus came to give us the abundant life (John 10:10). If you've seen me, you've seen the Father (John 14:9). I and the Father are one (John 10:30).
Brad it is true that prosperity and blessing/poverty and suffering are not directly related to a person's spiritual condition in the Gospel. That is why the apostles could exhort rejoicing in suffering. However, the Mosaic Covenant is clear that suffering and blessing are direct consequences of covenant adherence or neglect. Did Israel just pen its own covenant, while God just watched it happen saying I wouldn't agree with that? Did not Jesus affirm the validity of the OT Covenant (Matt 5:17)? The encroachment of Greg Boyd's and even Peter Enns' sub-Christian view of the the OT is a real concern. Your view would necessarily mean that we must discard the OT. After all, it is just human attempts to get God right; who needs that? I am greatly amused by the belief of many who believe that they understand God better than Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. I do hope that you are not one of them.
@@stephaniezaczkowski9295 Stephanie I know that your motive is to help people find a better theology than what we experienced in YWAM, but this stuff is simply not orthodox. It is heretical. The whole Bible is the Word of God, not just what Jesus said. Jesus did not say or believe that the OT writers were incorrect. Would it be wise to let children write the Magna Carta? Would it be wise to let children write the eternal words of God, which, according to Jesus, 'cannot be broken' (John 10:35). The prophets spoke by God's Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:11), not from their misguided worldview. This theology may be comforting for people who cannot accept that God brings death and suffering, but that is not reality. God put the death sentence on the Earth because of Adam's sin. Jesus is also violent to His enemies, and will judge the world (Rev 6:15-16). We have to accept the Jesus that is presented in the Bible, not the caricature created by universalists, anarchists and pacifists. They are creating a false Gospel. Sorry for being so direct.
Martin, while I love her dearly, I am not my mother in law Stephanie. I am not engaging with you since it’s clearly pointless. Trust that we are doing our best and aren’t fools. Trust in the holy spirit. Blessings!
@@TruthInMotionStudios Maybe you should think twice before posting controversial and unorthodox theological ideas to vulnerable people, particularly if you do not want to engage anyone who addresses it. Please be honest, the reason why you won't engage is not because it is 'clearly pointless' but because you do not have the expertise to back up your public postings. If you don't have the theological education or discernment to engage discussion, you really should not be presenting yourself as a disseminator of truth. As a long term pastor, I am very protective of vulnerable people who have been exposed to wolves as they are very vulnerable. Stick with mainstream theology, not experimental new geniuses.
@@martinspadaro5323 You see one way, others see another. Even when it comes to the "word of God" which I wrestle with ALL THE TIME...... The word became flesh......Why?......because we will never agree on words!
In summary: God is not Santa, who gives you what you want, and trying to manipulate God through prayer and good behaviour is not faith, but magic. God is not Zeus who needs to be placated by good behaviour and who throws thunderbolts at those who step out of line. The theology of eternal hell is a theology of terror that turns God into a tyrant and produces fear but never love. It is an anathema to God and can only be described as an anti-Gospel and un-Christian. God is, was, and will always be love.
Great video, thanks for sharing. _"...You consider yourself hurt by Christianity..."_ Respectfully, in my opinion, that's not possible. Church-i-anity is a man made religion just like Islam and Buddhism and people follow it with conviction. Churchianity *is not* Christianity. I don't see how a person can maliciously hut others while following Biblical Christianity.
thank you for this interview. it's been only several months that i came to the universal unconditional love of god (that I actually believed and experienced when i first believed in the lord, but then the church...took it away) and i am deeply moved and deeply grateful and happy. my whole life i searched for god..and never was satisfied until my christ experience..unfortunatly, for 7 years into faith i kept digging more and more because the doctrines that i was thaught started to really poison and kill me. i was a depressed suicidal girl before coming to christ, so the idea of hell was the most horrible one. i almost got insane because of pain for my loved ones. i was living in dispair and pain and fear and doubts (what if i..fall from grace somehow? repentence never looked enough or sincere..) then i started to learn the torah and go with this wind. i thought god's will is for me to be holy and following the lord in all the things i can. i was called heretic and apostate, lost all my brothers and sisters that probably still weep for me as i will burn in hell. after some years of torah wannabe..i understood that I CANNOT DO IT! and it's totally fine. because i am super loved and cared for my Abba..and nothing ever will change his heart from me. or anyone else. now i am sure i am heretic and apostate for the messianic comunities also..i find no more place in christianity and it's just awkward. at the begining i was terrified, now i am really fine with it. i miss comunity, hope to..receive again a healthy one. it's been 2 years without and it's not what it should be..but the traumas still keep me away and hurted. manipulation, fear inducing doctrines, phariseism, hipocrisy, religiosity, rituals..all these things trigger in me anger and pain..even if i love everyone and i really forgave whoever did whatever to me..how could i not forgive? i was one of them..sending people into eternal fire..may our father be praised for his love and forgivness
Thankyou for your honest and moving story. Very, very similar to my own story on so many points. I was depressed and desperate when I got radically saved in 2001. I went to a wonderful church but felt I needed to go to a smaller 'more 'biblically serious' church closer to where I live. The doctrines and teaching literally do poison and bring death. Ten years after leaving that extremely controlling, Law-based and cult-like church (which I'd become part of the leadership in my ignorance and deception) I still find the idea of church fills me with fear and anxiety. I find that I am hyper-sensitive now to even the subtle control that pastors, preaching and church systems bring. It makes me want to run! Though I have spent many years re-learning what the Gospel actually is and how Law and grace are so totally opposed to each other I still battle condemnation and the heaviness that that church put on me almost daily. So many stories and comments on here have made me realise how common this is and how evil it is. Sometimes I catch a glimpse again of how lovely my Father is and how He has continued to guide and bless me and my family and I am so grateful. But I long to know again the joy and freedom I knew in the few years after I got saved and to be free from the paralysing indecision over the smallest things, the cycles of guilt and heaviness that still rests in my soul from the time at that church.
@@jameswhite7997 I also thank you for you sharing your experience. i think we heal others when we share and we are being healed ourselves..as a reply to both you and me and other people out there, i believe there is deep hope to have pure joy into Christ again even after the most painful church experiences: being like children in relation with our father. day by day. and leting ourselves be the way we are, knowing we are deeply loved by Him. learning to be in a specific state of heart and mind rooted in his love. i learnt that..if there is a precious thing here on earth that we will not experience anymore in the eternal life..is healing. healing is a beautiful and intimate thing between the hurted and his Creator. and it's something that when and after we go through..no one and no thing can ever take it away anymore. peace, brother! may the abundant life giving spirit of love and truth and joy and peace fill you each day!
@@jameswhite7997 i recommend you freedom ministries (mike popovich) i found this in the right season. several years ago i would have rejected amlost everything he said calling him a heretic (it's funny how true is the saying: do not judge, so you will not be judged. the standards thst we judge others will sooner or later apply to..us) i listen to him almost daily in the last month..it boost my faith and trust again..and gives me directions in what actually means to "walk with the lord". maybe it would be something suitable for you.
paul young's testimony also is very touching on some aspects..the one who wrote the shack.
peace!
@Shira Roxana, I am so happy that you are on a good path with love and peace. Paul Young is really a great dude. Has a lot of life-giving thoughts to share. I know about the calling people a "heretic" thing... ob boy, I've been there as well. Blessings to you!
Keep posting this stuff and continue having these healthy conversations.......If it wasn't for guys like Brad I would of tossed it all out the door......Jesus and all.. Thank you!
Loreto, thank you for the encouragement!! I appreciate it!
Over 40 years ago, before this stuff was around, I did exactly that. I threw out the baby with the bath water because the bath water had become so dark that I could no longer see the baby. After becoming an atheist, flirting with Buddhism, and looking into other Eastern paths, I have taken the long way around. I am now back, but with new eyes.
Thanks Brad. So much clarity to my soul. I Am changed daily as I hear the Lord in the in my heart and confirmed in the saints testimony.
Here you are again!! Good to see your name. Open Table Conference will be on zoom. Check out their website to get in.
Wonderful truth telling redeeming GODS reputation
Thanks for your comments, Brad. They were healing for me this morning with all the Covid stuff going on and feeling isolated. Twenty five years ago, a church destroyed my first marriage; though I've remarried and have a basically happy life now, I've never really gotten over it.
Dean, thanks for your feedback. I hope that you are finding all the healing you need. You deserve complete freedom.
Christina- thank you so much for your channel! First came across your interviews with the authors of Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and love your conversation with Brad here and David Hayward.
Thanks so much, Thomas! I am so glad that it’s meaningful to you!
WOW WOW WOW!! This IS SO GOOD TO HEAR!!!!! Just that first 6 minutes was the most validating thing anyone has ever said.
Happy to hear that, Anna Mae!!
The interview you had with C. Baxter Kruger was instrumental in transforming my life! It was during that interview, that the lights came on and I could see!
Shane, that is amazing to read... thanks for sharing and blessings on your path of discovering the beauty of the light :D
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
You are so welcome, Daniel!
I am listening to your April 20th talk now on you tube waiting for my own church service to begin online...I am really listening closely to this conversation and it bears witness to me as a believer in Jesus. Brad, I just bought your book "A More a Christlike God" on Kobo. This is a real eye-opener. However, I have always wondered about why there are control issues in some parts of the Church. End times teaching can be so condemning. I am in a mainline Church for nearly the past 10 years. I have had considerable experience, unfortunately, in controlling Evangelical Churches, most notably, centered around excessive Israel teaching, very long services, and another church early on in another location up north in Ontario that had a strong emphasis on prosperity....unbalanced. For example, in the early 1980's, I was in the ushering ministry but we HAD TO BE at the church EVERY SATURDAY night for practice sessions!. I have gotten over a lot of this now, but Brad Jersak your discussion here is refreshing. I sorry, I do not know the lady's name in this discussion.
My name is Christina! Thanks for your comment, Terry! You might also enjoy the conversation I got to have with David Hayward, we speak a lot about systemic abuse (on my UA-cam channel) and how healthy community could look like.
thanks Christina
Love this so much, shedding an aweful image of God😭🙌👑
Olya, that is wonderful to hear :D
Thank you
You're welcome :)
The question I ask myself about my choices is... Is this life affirming? I know that the answer to that is not black and white and requires me to consider and decide. I also know what I think is life affirming today may not be life affirming 10 or 200 years from now; however, I can only make decisions based on my understanding now. Where unintended consequences could be great or affect others, then I'm called (it's my responsibility) to consult with others and/or with one or people who have more knowledge than I have. In a way, greater potential consequences requires a greater standard of care.
Great interview! Loved the back and forth you have together, didn't feel like pre planned questions which makes it flow beautifully.
Thanks, Marcus! Brad is pretty cool indeed :)
Thanks for teaching the good news! We need to repent of the un-Christ like God! The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Jesus came to give us the abundant life (John 10:10). If you've seen me, you've seen the Father (John 14:9). I and the Father are one (John 10:30).
Yes, brotherjoeradosti! We get to change our thoughts drastically about our good christlike God!
Brad it is true that prosperity and blessing/poverty and suffering are not directly related to a person's spiritual condition in the Gospel. That is why the apostles could exhort rejoicing in suffering. However, the Mosaic Covenant is clear that suffering and blessing are direct consequences of covenant adherence or neglect. Did Israel just pen its own covenant, while God just watched it happen saying I wouldn't agree with that? Did not Jesus affirm the validity of the OT Covenant (Matt 5:17)? The encroachment of Greg Boyd's and even Peter Enns' sub-Christian view of the the OT is a real concern. Your view would necessarily mean that we must discard the OT. After all, it is just human attempts to get God right; who needs that? I am greatly amused by the belief of many who believe that they understand God better than Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. I do hope that you are not one of them.
Jesus Christ understood God better than Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Listen to Him (Matthew 17:5)!
@@stephaniezaczkowski9295 Stephanie I know that your motive is to help people find a better theology than what we experienced in YWAM, but this stuff is simply not orthodox. It is heretical. The whole Bible is the Word of God, not just what Jesus said. Jesus did not say or believe that the OT writers were incorrect. Would it be wise to let children write the Magna Carta? Would it be wise to let children write the eternal words of God, which, according to Jesus, 'cannot be broken' (John 10:35). The prophets spoke by God's Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:11), not from their misguided worldview. This theology may be comforting for people who cannot accept that God brings death and suffering, but that is not reality. God put the death sentence on the Earth because of Adam's sin. Jesus is also violent to His enemies, and will judge the world (Rev 6:15-16). We have to accept the Jesus that is presented in the Bible, not the caricature created by universalists, anarchists and pacifists. They are creating a false Gospel. Sorry for being so direct.
Martin, while I love her dearly, I am not my mother in law Stephanie. I am not engaging with you since it’s clearly pointless. Trust that we are doing our best and aren’t fools. Trust in the holy spirit. Blessings!
@@TruthInMotionStudios Maybe you should think twice before posting controversial and unorthodox theological ideas to vulnerable people, particularly if you do not want to engage anyone who addresses it. Please be honest, the reason why you won't engage is not because it is 'clearly pointless' but because you do not have the expertise to back up your public postings. If you don't have the theological education or discernment to engage discussion, you really should not be presenting yourself as a disseminator of truth. As a long term pastor, I am very protective of vulnerable people who have been exposed to wolves as they are very vulnerable. Stick with mainstream theology, not experimental new geniuses.
@@martinspadaro5323 You see one way, others see another. Even when it comes to the "word of God" which I wrestle with ALL THE TIME......
The word became flesh......Why?......because we will never agree on words!
In summary:
God is not Santa, who gives you what you want, and trying to manipulate God through prayer and good behaviour is not faith, but magic.
God is not Zeus who needs to be placated by good behaviour and who throws thunderbolts at those who step out of line.
The theology of eternal hell is a theology of terror that turns God into a tyrant and produces fear but never love. It is an anathema to God and can only be described as an anti-Gospel and un-Christian.
God is, was, and will always be love.
Great video, thanks for sharing.
_"...You consider yourself hurt by Christianity..."_
Respectfully, in my opinion, that's not possible. Church-i-anity is a man made religion just like Islam and Buddhism and people follow it with conviction.
Churchianity *is not* Christianity. I don't see how a person can maliciously hut others while following Biblical Christianity.