A Device to SIMPLIFY Your IN-EAR MONITOR Setup - MIDAS 4816-O Splitter
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- 🔵 MIDAS 4816-O Purchase Link: sweetwater.sjv.io/EKJJz9
In this video, we are going over using a device to simplify your in-ear monitor setup. This is the Midas 4816-O, and I'm specifically going to address how you can use this as a splitter for your in ear monitor rack. It's a simple way to get 16 xlr outputs sent over one cat5/ethernet cable. Very useful, and works well with my Behriner XR18, Behringer X32Rack, and many more (obviously Midas devices as well). Many thanks to Sweetwater for sending this over for review for the channel.
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0:00 - Intro
1:51 - Hardware Setup
3:06 - XLR Advice
3:36 - Mixer Configuration
5:10 - Signal Tap
6:24 - Gain Notice
6:45 - Input vs Analog
7:40 - When I Use Post Fader
8:40 - XAir App
8:56 - X32 App
9:22 - Other Mixers?
9:58 - Price
10:35 - My Experience
12:05 - Very Important!
12:50 - Outro
🔥🔥🔥 GEAR MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO 🔥🔥🔥
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◆ MIDAS 4816-O (16 XLR Out): sweetwater.sjv.io/EKJJz9
◆ MIDAS 4816-I (16 XLR In): sweetwater.sjv.io/dann93
◆ MIDAS 4888 (8 XLR IN 8 XLR OUT): sweetwater.sjv.io/y299eB
◆ 8 Channel XLR Snake (Hosa/Cheaper): sweetwater.sjv.io/Py44rM
◆ 8 Channel XLR Snake (Mogami/Hi-End): sweetwater.sjv.io/an22xq
◆ 16 Channel XLR Snake: sweetwater.sjv.io/ZQBBx0
◆ Shielded Cat5 Cable: sweetwater.sjv.io/MmyybM
◆ Cat5 Cable (cheaper): sweetwater.sjv.io/q4ZZyb
💥 OTHER GEAR TO CHECK OUT 💥
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◆ MIDAS 32In/16Out Stage Box: sweetwater.sjv.io/9gOOJY
◆ MIDAS 16In/8Out Stage Box: sweetwater.sjv.io/5gYY7o
◆ Behringer S32 Stage Box: sweetwater.sjv.io/q4ZZ2b
◆ Behringer S16 Stage Box: sweetwater.sjv.io/DKnnk5
◆ Behringer SD16 Stage Box: sweetwater.sjv.io/rQOO2j
◆ Behringer SD8 Stage Box: sweetwater.sjv.io/Py44bj
🎥 OTHER VIDEOS TO WATCH 🎥
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◆ IEM Splitters Explained and FAQ: • In Ear Monitor Rack SP...
◆ My Compact IEM Rack Setup: • My COMPACT In-Ear Moni...
◆ How to Run Your Own IEM Mix: • How to Run Your Own In...
◆ 10 Cheap Items for In Ear Monitor Setups: • 10 CHEAP Items For You...
◆ Mixing Station Tutorial: • MIXING STATION - The B...
◆ In Ear Monitors Video Playlist: • In-Ear Monitors
◆ My Favorite New Wireless IEM System: • MY NEW FAVORITE Wirele...
◆ Beginners Guide to In Ear Monitors: • Beginners Guide to In ...
◆ My Favorite Wireless IEM System: • MY NEW FAVORITE Wirele...
◆ Custom IEM Ear Bud Molds - • We Got IN EAR MONITOR ...
◆ How to Use A Passive Antenna Combiner: • How To Use A PASSIVE A...
◆ 5 Common Mistakes When Using Wireless Music Gear: • 5 COMMON MISTAKES When...
◆ Sennheiser EW 300 IEM System: • Sennheiser EW In Ear M...
◆ Phenyx Pro PTM 10 IEM System: • Affordable Wireless In...
◆ Rack Mounted WIFI Router: • Rack Mount WIFI ROUTER...
📷 VIDEO SETUP: 📷
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◆ CAMERA: amzn.to/3vg4R54
◆ LENS: amzn.to/3KFN4NP
◆ MAIN LIGHTS: amzn.to/3Gj2Fjz
◆ BACK RGB LIGHTS: amzn.to/3I2Yc5S
◆ TRIPOD: amzn.to/3dv2RvB
◆ DESK MOUNT: amzn.to/3WJvCuB
◆ MONITOR: amzn.to/3viKeWg
Edited with Gling AI: bit.ly/46bGeYv
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Hey everyone, so it does appear that Ultranet is only available for Midas/Behringer products, so it seems like it will NOT work with other mixers (presonus, soundcraft, etc). Thank you all for adding the comments to share this info! I appreciate it! But it will work well with Behringer mixers such as xr18, x32, and Midas mixers such as Air18 and Midas 32.
Thanks
Yes, ultranet is a proprietary protocol for Behringer/Midas afaik.
This is kind of OFF topic, but those Velcro Cable labels, where do you get those????
Ah, I was just getting ready to ask that question. This video was VERY helpful as I'm currently building an in ear system with my Midas mr18. Thank you!
Can this be used to create extra Aux Outputs so I can run stereo IEMs?
Thanks Scott, Eric & Dan, I never realised there was an easier way to split from Xr18. Im in the uk and everywhere is currently out of stock for this, but it makes sense to switch my old-school ms8000 splitters to save time space and hassle for myself and everyone I know who uses the old fashioned ways. Small bands dont need/can't afford X32's and stage boxes to split for Foh, and this will cut down the size and weight of our transportation and load-ins. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I shall share and pass on this knowledge to everyone I know (but not until I've got my hands on one first)
Thank you, this is my favorite sound related channel, you explain everything so clearly 🙌🏻
Thank you! I’m glad you are enjoying the channel!
I’m blown away I’ve always needed more outputs who knew you could use the “p16” for that purpose
I've been waiting FOREVER for something like this to come out 😁
It’s such a great setup!
It's so nice when the band knows how to set the gain instead of just turning the knob until it feels about right! Makes it easier for everyone!
Yeah definitely, or just one guy has control and knows how to gain stage and everyone else just mixes their ears by themselves 👍
Your videos are simple to follow and great quality.
I appreciate that!
Also, just FYI, you were the ONLY one who made the gain issue very clear. Other videos on this product were either incorrect in their assessment or didn't cover it. When I contacted my rep at Sweetwater to find out if the analog send was pre or post gain, it took a couple of days to hear back from their Behringer rep, and they even had it wrong. The rep said it was pre. While I was waiting to here from them, I tested the USB sends to Logic and realized "Analog" was post preamp, meaning the gain was set at the mixer, not the DAW. So I figured it would be the same with the 4816-O.
Thanks again for the videos, they are very helpful!
Yeah, the lack of videos on this topic was very surprising. And I wanted to make sure to include that so people understood it. It’s super important! Thanks again Matt 🤘
There is nothing called pre-gain. The rep probably thought you were thinking about pre/post fader.
I'm not sure how a signal that has been converted to digital and then back to analog could potentially be "pre gain". I indeed think the rep thought you meant pre processing etc, I would maybe have said the same thing if you'd asked me if the outputs on the 4816 are pre-gain. Yeah, they can be pre everything, pre highpass, pre eq, compression, everything. The fact that it goes into the XR18 and then comes back out should have been the giveaway pre gain is impossible
@@chrisjeaaalbertos3802 good grief, so sorry. It's not so much a "giveaway" hence why I asked the question. The fact that X-Air Edit labels the first pick point on the Ultranet tab as "Analog" caused me to wonder if it's "splitting" the signal like a analog splitter/stage box. Analog means.... get ready.... NOT DIGITAL. I didn't jump on the phone and mutter at the rep "is this pre-gain" and wait for an answer. I asked in detail, will this work like a splitter? Would my gain on the XR18 effect the signal sent to FOH, and the rep said it would not. I guess it was a waste of time for Scott to explain this in his video as its such a no brainer.
Just bought a demo unit of this off Sweetwater based on this review, going to use it with our XR-18 (also a demo from Sweetwater, lol) which we also purchased after watching your other videos. We've learned so much based on your videos, thanks Scott!!!
Nice!! Thanks man, glad you’ve enjoyed the videos 🤘 Enjoy the Midas!
I watch, and LEARN, from ALL of your videos. Thank you so much Scott !!
Thank you 🙏
Great device. Solves my problem of sending to FOH the channels that I’m processing in my DAW + backing tracks also playing from DAW.
Thanks for the video!
Nice! Glad to help 🤘
Please note that if you use an X32 Rack for in-ears and an X32/M32/Wing for FOH, you can route your signals to either AES50 output on the X32 Rack and send it to the FOH mixer using Ethercon cable. AES50 allows you to the send 48 signals out and receive 48 signals in using one Ethercon cable.
BTW, if FOH is using a Wing, you can use the StageConnect ports on this device to talk directly to the Stage Connect ports on the Wing.
That would definitely be best! One cable to send everything would be killer!
I guess you have done it that way. Were there ever any problems with the shared preamp gain / the band setting the preamp gain and the tech just getting a digital trim?
thanks for this video! this is the device I was looking for
Glad I could help!
I dig how this trades 16+ short cables for a single cat5 cable. I'm so burnt out on others in control of my monitor mix or no IEM if they don't have them. It's a hefty expense out of the gate but so worth it in the long run.
Everytime I watch your videos I say "I need that!" Youre gonna bankrupt me Scott.
I have that problem as well 😅😅
Wow! This simplified and neatens up a very complicated process. This is how I will build my future IEM rig. Thank you for everything that you do!
Glad you found it as helpful as I did 🤘🤘
For those with Presonus Studio mixers: Run a stereo output (tracks, keyboards, and split it mono into two separate channels (panned Left and Right. Create a mix and use the aux mix for monitors and Main as FOH. Aux will be for inears and receives both channels but FOH only receives right channel without cues or etc
This is correct 👍 that’s true for any mixer system and how you want to run your in ears
We are currently working on our own iem rig and your channel is always a hreat source of information.
I decided to go the XR18 route, and now this seems to he the perfect alternative to snakes and such... And its easily available in Europe, unlike the seismic audio snakes.
Thanks again for all your advices
Glad to help! Just remember the gain info I go over in this video. That’s very important
@@ScottUhlMusic your right, especially since we were quite surprised that the XR 18 required way more gain than our previous analog board
Thank you for this video! I think this will end up saving me money! I’ve been using our XR18 as an audio interface for keyboards as well as our mixer/in-ears for small gigs. When pricing the rig to make a splitter work I was needing to include a new audio interface with at least eight quarter inch or XLR outputs in the math. Looks like this will allow me to bypass that purchase.
Glad to help 🤘
There you go, these are a great option as well 🤔
Well produced video! Very clearly explained and executed. Thanx for helping in our decision process of how to set up our shizz!😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've never had a tougher time trying to buy a product. this thing is back ordered everywhere
Thank you, your videos are very interesting and useful !
Glad you like them! 🤘
I love this, thank you thank you thank you. I’ve been looking for a solution like this for a while. You just blew my mind with this video. Guess with my next for the video.
Nice! Glad to help 🤘🤘
Nice - we have been doing the same since it came out!
Cries in Xair16 without that ultranet port. It would've saved so much patch cables and passive splitters.
Haha yup, it’s definitely worth the little extra money for that 18 if you can afford it. 16 is great, but the extra stuff with the 18 is worth it!
Awesome video thanks for sharing 👌👌👌
Thank you!
This is the splitter I’ve been searching for! Thank you for this Scott! Do you happen to know if you can also use a PowerPlay P16 personal mixer in conjunction with this splitter?
Thanks. And I believe you can… since the P16 I believe has a THRU? I saw a video on that somewhere, but I do not use the P16 so I’m not positive.
@@ScottUhlMusic Thanks for the quick reply man! After I wrote my comment I clicked on your link to it on Sweetwater and saw a review comment from someone saying that it works nicely in line with the P16 Personal monitor lol.
Great Info Man! you DA Man Thanks😃
Any time! Thanks 😊
Very informative video thank you for sharing.
Glad to help!
Thank you for this info! :) I’ve been using IEM’s since the early ‘90’s. It’s amazing to see the advances in tech. Although it can make setting up a pain, once that initial setup is dialled in, subsequent setups should be much quicker. To any budding musicians out there, get some IEM’s, it will help save your hearing. Just some friendly advice from an old, partially deaf rocker! :)
❤ from 🇨🇦 :) \m/, ,\m/
IEMs are probably THE best investment to make as a musician IMO 🤘
Scott, when it goes out of your splitter, how do you hear it? What device do you use for your in-ear?
Edited: I'm assuming you actually have the XR18 close by with the band and use the aux outputs to your in-ears, correct? For a second I thought FOH had the XR18 and you had the splitter. I understand now. Great video!
Killer video!!
Thanks!
Very useful. I use the XR18 with my band, and this could allow us to keep the XR as our in-ear console, and send the signal front when whe play in bigger issues. Thanks Scott ! I will also check Mixing station, I use XR Edit at the moment, but if things can be added with this app, it could be great.
Glad to help. And yeah definitely check out mIxing station 🤘
Can you please give a feedback because we want to do the same
So glad you made this video. I also heard about people using this instead of traditional splitters... however, it is still a bit more expensive compared to purchasing two Behringer splitters...although, likely easier overall (1 cable).
As far a general best practise, if I used this, I would still really need to have a snake available to give to the soundman, rather than have HIM/HER patch into the Midas, correct?
Yeah, still would need to have them send the 16xlr channels to them, but it would be only 1 cable out of your mixer
Hi, Thanks for your content, it´s very usefull.
Thank you for watching!
Hi Scott, very detailed video, nice work! I was wondering if this great solution for splitting the Xair signal also allows the use of PM16 mixers. I would like to keep this functionality. Not enough auxes for stereo iem.
Thanks! And I’ve gotten that question a lot in the comments, but I just have Ted used the P16, so I honestly don’t know.
thanks for the swift reply@@ScottUhlMusic
I sold off our p16m units since we've gone to a x32 core with a s32 - enough auxes for running stereo iems for a six piece band.
But this x air hack is something else..
I just thought of something. We used to run our p16m's through a behringer P16-D which is basically a hub for more POE connections. This might work. But only dry signals then. Something to think about.
thanks!
for xr18s that's actually genius, yes you cannot send pre-gain signal but that's ok in most cases
Agreed!
Great video! Do you know if it is possible to use this on a P16D hub ultranet output as well? Then it would also still be able to use the P16M personal monitors (even if it means that every band member will need to configure EQ and such on their individual P16M themselves)?
Thanks! And honestly I do not know, as I haven’t used that one
I last played out in 1993. This is like some alien sh.. :) Like when I found out music was using Ethernet. Thank You for sharing. It helps keep my mind active and sharp. Be Well and Best Regards and Best Wishes!
Haha thank you! 😊 👽
Ultranet protocol doesn't work with other protocol it is specific to midas and and behringer products
Ok sweet, thanks for commenting. I was wondering!
correct the ultranet protocol is unique to behringer/midas products. it is quite different from dante, which dante has alot of adapters that would allow it to work on a wide variety of products.
AES50 it the protocol used by Behringer. Which is different to Dante itself.
scott this vid is a lifesaver man!! quick question tho, if your iem rig has a dn4816-i for inputs as well as a dn4816-0 for outputs, how can can both be connected to an x32 rack if there is only one ultranet connection on the x32?? thanks scott!!
Thanks! And I do not believe you can use it with Ultranet in. I use the behringer s16 that connects in via AES50 port. One cable in, one cable out. It’s amazing!
Great video man! I noticed this device a few weeks ago and now I know I'm gonna buy this one instead of two Art Pro Audio Splitters. Much quicker and cleaner setup. Altough I have to say that I'm afraid Ultranet is a Midas/Behringer proprietary protocol so it works only with those mixers. That's it. For other mixers you would need other devices working with something like DANTE or MADI protocols, provided those mixers can work with those protocols.
Yup, it does appear that’s a proprietary system. It was hard to find details about this device online, so thanks for letting me know! Definitely a bummer it doesn’t work with other systems, but great for us Behringer/Midas users!
@@ScottUhlMusic it is indeed. I personally use the Ultranet protocol to feed a Powerplay P-16M module that is a very affordable monitoring device. I think I can daisy chain them to have a) a good wired monitoring and b)split the signal to send to FOH.
Hey Scott, loved the video. I appreciate the sentiment of simplifying and trying to achieve these results in efficient manners but there are a couple things I want to point out:
1. Ultranet is a propriatory protocol that works primarily with Behringer and Midas so that's a big limitation. That being said so many small to mid sized venues are using x32s and m32s I am willing to bet that you will run into more gigs where you can use this system, than you would of NOT being able to use it. On the other hand with larger and more complex rooms/venues, most of the time it is Avid, Yamaha, or Digico in my experience which do not sport ultranet if i recall correctly.
2. I think this will be a non issue for bars, and smaller mid sized clubs but if you are pushing a mix through larger wattage and powerful big PA rig then not being to have control over headamp gain is like taking away a pipe wrench from a good plumber. For smaller PAs the gain staging is less impactful on the actual sound for the audience so I think most club engineers will be fine and may even see it as convient. However, For (arbirary numbers/valies) something like a 5 box of dual 6.5"s per side array, that would be challenging. Gain staging is important for making sure volumes are easily manipulated and you can adjust all mix busses to be happy, however gain staging plays a MUCH larger role on those large PA systems with digital consoles. For those shows most, if not all, the audience is hearing PA and almost none of the acoustic or natural band sound from the stage. That's where your gain staging is essential to making sure your EQ and Compressor are reacting exactly how you want them to becausd that is what the audience hears.
I apologize for any missplellings or grammar mistakes. This was a long winded response, typed on my phone!
-Jake
Thanks for the comment! I do agree for much larger venues, the gain staging would be really important. But most places I play they are cool with adding a pad to the channel and being able to adjust it if they need to. Every engineer I’ve worked with just said “the signal is hot but it worked well.” So it’s not for everyone, but I’ve had great results with it. Again, thanks for the comments! I appreciate it 🤘🤘
See, told ya it works
I’m definitely very grateful you told me about it! 🤘🤘 Just used it again tonight. Works like a charm. Thanks again!
Hi Scott , very good explanation of it works you , however you talk in your tempo how you use to talk , its goes a little to fast for a dutch guy like me ihave to rerun it everytime how routed in the mix station app . For the rest you,ve been a lot of help👍👍
The families Vox and Guit plays together in one band...
Thanks for this Scott! just a question about the device, can you route it in a way that there could be multiple inputs going out into 1 output? I'm thinking if I can just make it as an extension on the existing physical output that our mixer had for our inears. Is it possible? or it's just for splitter purposes only?
That’s an interesting question…. I haven’t tried routing multiple things out the same output. My guess is that yes, you can. But I don’t know what the results will be
I see.. If it's possible, I think the other concern is on how to control the volume of each channel or the mix itself since the 4816-O doesn't have controls unlike the P16s right? Anyway thank you for this video Scott.
@@ogarokenaniah2630 It's 1:1 for outputs, but depending on what mixer you use, you can send different inputs to a bus and select that bus as the output source. It follows the same principles as Ultranet
This video is great. High teaching and video editing skills. You edit all of that manually?
Thanks! I use Gling AI for the talking head stuff which helps a lot, but everything else is manual with different plugins. Editing takes the longest with these videos
Great video Scott! Could this be used to add additional Aux outputs for more IEM mixes with the XR18 or is it limited to the 6 Aux sends and Main L/R?
No, if won’t add new bus outputs from the 18. The 18 is limited to 6 bus sends and the stereo main outputs
@@ScottUhlMusic thanks!
@@ScottUhlMusic As an FYI, actually there might be a way, @danielkharrat demonstrates how he configured x18 with the 4816-0 to utilize additional 2 channels from the x18 potentially for IEM via the FX channels. edit: fixed fatfinger typo *4816-0
@randypresley1666 ooooh interesting. I didn’t even think about that….
I have the same question. We are 6 band members using IEM, and with only 6 outputs from the 18 we cannot get stereo in our IEM. I wonder if with this I could end up with 16 outputs (L/R) and use 12 of them in stereo for our IEM... @@randpresley1666
The Unity Gain to FOH is Freaking Awesome ......
Jeff, is this you? I can’t tell from your name if it is. If it is, I’m glad you found the video 🤘 if this isn’t Jeff…. The sound guy at my gig this weekend said the same thing and loved this system!
This is a great setup for some, but it has a couple of potential downsides: A) as a splitter snake, this adds your IEM DigMixer + 4816 as active components in the chain to front of house. If either fails, FoH is offline as well. Using passive splitter snakes can avoid this issue. B) Ultranet supports 16 channels, so if you are using P16M for some players (for example), using this for splitter would reduce channels for the P16 or the Splitter, as they have to share the 16 ch.
That’s true for both. To me, it’s worth it and the pros out weigh the cons for me. But it might not be true for everyone. Thanks for commenting 🤘
So just confirming - if I want to use a P16M as well, I can't just use the ultranet out on the 4816 to then run a cable to the P16M also?
Hey Scott!! Do you have any recommendations for a IEM rig similar to the Xvive U4 or the Nux products where its just a two-piece system and its plug and go? I am willing to spend a bit more money than these products as I have already gone through quite a few U4 units. I am in several duo and trio groups and everyone already has units like these so I don't really want a half-rack system just yet if I don't have to so I was just wondering your thoughtts? thanks for any info and I love your vids!
Thanks! And yup, this is my plug-n-play hack that I use a lot and it works very well: Portable and Compact In Ear Monitor System - IEM Hack
ua-cam.com/video/0WT9fHqVzZg/v-deo.html
For something like the presonus 24r or 32r, I wonder how you would get it to work with 2 of these units if there's only 1 ethernet output. Cool tip btw, saves a ton of money on splitters and cables, which sadly I already bought lol
Thanks! And it does NOT work with Presonus I found out unfortunately
Great Video. Can we use it with Presonus 32R?
Thanks! And my understanding now is no, you cannot use it with Presonus. I believe it’s just with behringer and Midas
Hi Scoot, thanks for the video!
I have a question, I use the ultranet output to connect a P16. In this case, what do you recommend?
Could I use the P16D HUB and would I get the same result?
Could I connect another MIDAS 4816 to this HUB as well?
Thank you very much for your time and your videos.
That I don’t know to be honest. This was my first experience with Ultranet so I need to look into it more. I’ve gotten that question a lot in the comments.
Yes, you can use P16D Hub. It doesn't care where it gets the signal from, as long as it's Ultranet. And you could conenct another 4816, but it would just mirror the same outputs.
So, all instruments are connected to the Xair FOH mixer from it via the ultra net port it is connected to the 4816 and from the 4816 all band members get their IEM mix right?
This is just for how to split the signal out of the xr18. So instruments plug into xr18, then use the 4816 to split the signal to front of house. Musicians still hear their mix from bud sends 👍
It seems a firmware update with the 2 additional settings for both UltraNet and StageConnect protocols is appropriate:
- Pregain
- Pregain + M
I might consider the product, if that firmware is ever released for both protocols
I would be stoked!
Explain what on earth "pregain" means? Before the signal is amped at all? That would just be sending nothing...
Hey man! Thanks for the video, sounds like exactly what the band need. Just one thing I need to confirm though - when you say 'don't adjust the gain', do you mean the gain of the MAIN mix, and not the individual IEM mix buses? Thanks!
The gain of the instruments. Once your gain is set on the vocal channel, the snare channel, the bass channel, etc… you cannot adjust the gain for those after that or it will change FOH. You can adjust FADERS, that’s fine. Just not gain
@@ScottUhlMusic That sounds fine for what we need - all we’d be sending to FOH is tracks and soft synths, which are line level anyway and usually don’t need any gain adjustment. That said, should I consider running the outs of the MIDAS 4816 into a passive rack DI so that FOH receives everything at mic level? Just to make things easier for them really.
Thanks for the reply!
The ''the mic will flip to a talk back via midi'' part got me like: ''DAAAAM THIS IS SOOOO FUCKING FUN'' ahahahahah why we are like this, man... ahahahahah GREAT content hehehe
Haha thanks! That midi talkback is super helpful for my bands! Took quite a while to figure out but I’m glad I did!
Nice trick - didn't know this either. I have a 'cold' 16 channel splitter - but with all the XLR patch cables it adds quite a bit of weight. Also, with the direct/cold splitter, we run the risk of '48V' confusion, so the responsibility for phantom power stays with FOH (we keep our XR18 48Vs off) - I assume this Midas 4816 unit doesn't have this problem as it runs over ethernet and is 'one way' from the mixer to FOH.
Only challenge I see is maybe redundancy - with our cold splitter, I don't see more than one channel going dead, rather than the full 16. With this 4816 unit, that may be a problem, but is probably easily solved for 2U rack space and 700 bucks (2x 4816 units, 2 power supplies and 2 ethernet cables) while maintaining the weight, phantom power, and cable organization-advantages
Man, I definitely should have included the phantom power proof with this as well. That’s an excellent point! And I am going to keep my redundancy as well with my old S8 splitter system. That way I have a way to split in for some reason they have a problem with this Midas setup. But so far everyone has been good 👍
@robbertj How will that redundant setup work? I assume these units are daisy chained, so if primary dies, secondary won't get the Ethernet, or maybe this is real physical passthrough? Not sure...
@@aleksandergrzybowski8899 i was just thinking keeping a spare 4816 unit in the rack (turned off), in case the fuse burns or something similar (power surges, etc). Same for power supply and ethernet cables (which probably fail much quicker than the actual unit itself)
But I didn't think about Scotts' point - some impossible-to-troubleshoot digital issue might screw you over, and a spare 4816 unit probably is of no use either then. A combination of a 4816 unit and a backup analog splitter might be the 'clever' thing to do, but kills the weight/cabeling advantage.
We'll just keep running with a single XR18 and single cold splitter for now and hope for the best. To be fair, we don't have backup basses, guitars, Helixes and Nord pianos either, so there are many more potential failure points in our operation anyway ;-)
Come to think of it: the Main LR stereo out might be the main backup plan then for the splitter. So no fancy channel-split source copies for FOH but just a LR mix for FOH and let them have a free evening ;-)
Hello, with my band we did something different.
We have the behringer X16 with a splitter behringer ultralink MS8000 and we plug every xlr cable on that and we've made the xlr to the mixer and a ruler on the other end of the rack with the output to the FOH.
All of this are in the same rack.
We connect the xlr cables on the front, it splits, one goes to our mixer for monitoring and the other goes to FOH without passing through our mixer.
I hope it helps.
BR
Nice! That’s a good setup to, and more of a “standard” splitter, and that works well 🤘
Thanks @ScottUhlMusic, great content and coverage of the Ultranet connectivity options. I have a question: If I connect the Behringer X Air XR18 via USB to Logic Pro X (LPX) to record a multitrack live show using the guitar input (from one of the Hi-Z inputs) loaded with FX plug-ins in LPX (modeling, reverb, pedalboard, etc.). Would the FOH (via the Midas DN4816-O) only receive the direct guitar input, or would it also receive what I hear in my IEM (with the FX plug-ins)?
I’ve never done that, but my guess is it would receive the direct signal because of how you are routing it. I’m almost certain it would, but again, I’ve never done that
Hello friends, can anyone clarify a doubt? My band uses an xr18 and I am connected to it via an RJ45 network cable and with the Behringher in ear P16m, can I connect this splitter to my P16m or do I have to connect it to the xr18 output first and then link it to the P16m? Thanks
If you’re using mix station, would using regain compensate for the change in volume?
What is “regain?”
@@ScottUhlMusic one of the best features of Mixing Station :)
Look it up :)
Hey I have a question… when you used the iPad version of the Behringer app… did it work properly? Did they fix the iOS 16 issue??
I use mixing station now. I highly recommend that instead of the behringer app.
Oh well, I wish I knew this a bit earlier. I just bought the same ART S8 3way splitter same as you previously used in your rack. The Midas give you 16 channels instead of 8 for nearly the same price. Because the Midas has an ultranet in and out, I can still use the Behringer P16-M 's for the ultranet connection on my X32 as well.
That s8 is still a great splitter for sure, and it will send FOH a pre-gained signal. Both are great options. I only recently discovered this device
@@ScottUhlMusic Yeah luckily I only bought one to start with, and held off buying the second Art S8. Maybe sell it, and get a Midas without losing a lot of scratch.
@@POGFROGULPOPif you are based in Europe, I’m very interested in your s8. We use the Soundcraft which doesn’t support ultranet.
@@BoTraK Not in Europe unfortunately. Australia. Cheers for the offer though.
@@BoTraK Based in Australia Bro. I may as well stick with it for now. I don't want all that effort I put in to soldering 16 XLR patch cables going to waste 🗑
How does the master and slave function work… when you need to output 32 channels?
And how many mixers are needed for that? (More than just 1 sending and 1 receiving?)
I only have one so I didn’t go into how to do master/slave. I would imagine in most situations 16 outputs would be completely fine if you aren’t using it as a splitter. With it as a splitter you might need up to 32 outputs
The master slave fuctions only apply when using the behringer wing console. This unit and the other 2 that scott showed (the 16 input and 8in/8out) are meant to be part of the “stageconnect” family of devices which doesnt work with the older “x-series” of stuff.
The part scotts using and talking about is the ultranet function which is compatible with all current midas/behringer digital consoles. I dont have use/own a wing so i cant speak on how it works or how to apply use cases.
Just bought this a month ago and it's a great device to add more aux sends to your setup. I haven't used it as a splitter since I already have one but its definitely something to consider in the future.
Yeah, it’s nice for both for sure!
Awesome stuff. I am using. P1 as a monitor. However when I go to my bus that am trying to control. I am only hearing my drums I want to hear all instruments. But am not sure how I go about controlling what gets fed to the p1 I am the drummer and have the p1 plugged into the behringer SD 8.
I’m willing to bet this video will help: How to Run Your Own In Ear Monitors - A Complete Step by Step Guide
ua-cam.com/video/XQjFhkQTVP8/v-deo.html
@@ScottUhlMusic checking it out
hey Scott, thanks for the videos. is there a risk to the 4816 unit if FOH accidentally sends phantom power back?
That I don’t know, but I don’t believe so
Hi Scott, thanks for the very informative video. Please clarify one thing for me, the splitter is only necessary to separate the signals going forward and the mixer, right? Since I want to set up my XR18 in a home studio, where all the instruments and microphones will be connected to the XR18, so to use the Aux as In Ear monitors, all I need is a wireless preamp or do I need something else.
I appreciate your help if you can of course.
Thank you
I’m not sure I understand completely what you mean, but it’s just mean to give you 16xlr outputs of the 16 channels in… which can be set to pre EQ, or post EQ, or pre fader, or post fader, etc
@@ScottUhlMusic Thank you, for your answer. I found another video of yours where you answer my question.
I apologize for my English
Thanks again, 🤘🤘
I would totally be down with a solution like this, but the only deal breaker for me is really the sharing of the gain, and I hope a firmware update fixes it in the future. The gain staging on my in ear mixer is pretty bazaar for some channels because it’s based on sound preferences of the individual players. Too many times I’ve had to adjust the gain of a player’s instrument in the in ear mixer during sound check to compensate for inconsistencies in their pedals or lack of headroom on their fader in changing venues when they claim nothing as changed on their stuff. (I’m slowly trying to get everyone on helix 😂) Also my guitar player brings a super hot signal out of his helix to begin with, that he doesn’t want to mess with in the ears, because he likes the sound of it. So I have to physically put -25db pads on the outputs for what I give to front of house as there are some venues who may still not be using digital mixers yet and I don’t want to give them something unusable. Having a split that doesn’t share anything with the in ear split makes me rest easy that whatever gets messed up in the in ears, at least that’s not happening to front of house at the same time. Great video as always, Scott!
Thanks! And yeah, I really hope eventually there is an option to do this pre gain. But as long as you don’t adjust after it’s set, you should be good 👍 Still, I definitely would love to send it pre gain
@@ScottUhlMusic There won't (can't) be, if you look at the block diagram in the XR18 manual, you'll see that the HA gain is actually a (digitally controlled) analog gain which happens before the analog to digital conversion. In other words, the mixer can only digitally route or send the signal somewhere _after_ it has passed through the gain stage. So no, not possible to add this through a firmware update as it's a hardware limitation. That's actually true for any digital console I'm aware of: preamp is analog, then there's an anolog to digital converter, anything after that happens digitally.
I'm confused. Are you talking about the input gain? Or the channel volume?
@@AndyGeroldMusic input gain
this was also the real breaker for me. I literally bought an s16 in addition to do exactly what this is doing and realized after that it wouldn’t do pre-gain output, so i sold the s16 and went with splitters
Very helpful video, thanks.
Though as a network engineer I'd add that you shouldn't use cat.5 specifically. While it will likely work just fine over short runs, better cables like cat.6a or cat.7 offer much better protection against internal and external signal interference, and the price difference is trivial if not zero.
That’s funny, because I used a cat6 cable and it had some problems (could have been the cable to be fair)…. But cat 5e worked completely fine. Super bizarre. But thanks for the comment! I appreciate it. I’ll be honest, my knowledge of the different type of Cat cables is very limited.
@@ScottUhlMusic "cat" refers to standardized categories of properties of the *bare cable*. That includes shielding and grounding, but also signal integrity and resilience to interference over certain lengths.
Unfortunately there's a lot of crap on retail platforms advertised even as cat.7 or cat.8, so this cat standard doesn't say anything about the overall product quality. I've had cat.6a's and cat.7's fail on me as well due to bad materials or shoddy assembly. cat.8 I would actually avoid because no one sells those at reasonable prices, so it's almost guaranteed to be false advertising.
For these reasons I recommend that people get reasonably priced cat.6a or cat.7 cables, test them well (they have a failure rate like any product), and avoid anything marked as "CCA" as those are not pure copper.
Thanks for the info! I actually had a drummer friend of mine who does networking for a living make me a Cat5e cable and tested it. It’s working well!
Just out of curiosity; would a fanned snake be absolutely needed? Couldn't FOH plug into straight into the MIDAS 4816-O? Label each out on the Midas?
I believe they technically could if they also had a Midas, yes
Can you have an stereo aux if you link two outputs? and have a stereo aux for an iem?
No, that would not work
@@ScottUhlMusic Thank's for the reply Scott. I could probably still use this like how you used yours regardless.
Hi I’ve got an A&H SQ5 and an A&H AR2412 with digital snake connection for FOH. What mixer can I use for monitors (in ear or physical) - if I use one of the rack QU mixers can I do the signal tap on the SQ5 to route to the QU for monitoring? Thanks very much.
That I don’t know
Hey Scott! What if we use P-16s now? How would this fit into our workflow?
If you already use the ultranet port, I don’t believe you can use this with it
@@ScottUhlMusic unless this new device has an “out” port where I can send a cat5 cable to my p-16?
so do you recomend this over the ULTRALINK MS8000 Ultra-Flexible 8-Channel Mic Splitter???
I haven’t used that, so I’ll have to look into it. I found out about this Midas splitter from another subscriber, so this is my first time diving into splitting over Ethernet.
Edit: I just looked it up. That’s more of a traditional splitter and you can send that signal pre gain as well. That’s much more of a “standard” split
@@ScottUhlMusic thanks brodi I Will take un consideration de Midas
Hey Scott, do you know if you can chain a 4816-O to a 4816-I and then have one ultranet cable going the XR-18? Basically making a 16x16 snake...
I don’t know, I’ve only used the O model… I need to look more into Ultranet for sure
@@ScottUhlMusic I noticed other comments saying CAT5 only carries 16 channels, so I'm guessing that you can't have 16 out and 16 in. Will have to do a little more digging. Thanks
Hey Scott have you done or will you consider doing a video on some recording things….software I can use and my friends can get so we can share stuff ….interfaces…..and things of the such….I know you always will keep in mind the cost of the working musicians
Thanks! And it seems like my channel does better with LIVE stuff for musicians, not so much studio stuff. But I’m not opposed to it!
Hey Scott, great video, not sure my band needs all those outputs, i currently have an xr18 & we use 4 P16-M's with a P16-D
Our wireless systems are stereo systems which is just fantastic
My question is, in that 16 midas out unit, i assume there mono feeds, how would you get a stereo feed from them, i know on the xr18, i would just link outs 1 & 2 into lets say a shure system connecting to the L & R
Easy peazy, & ive heard so many things about MS, but right now im using xair edit maybe you could explain to me how to get a stereo feed
Thanks, you just got a new subscriber
Thanks for subscribing! And it should just be the same. Route 1 and 2 out properly in the app, and plug in 1\2 out like you normally would 👍
@ScottUhlMusic awsome, thanks for the clarification, im new to this entire digital system, i pretty much have the xair edit software running smoothly with my band, Mixing Station is a little intimidating, i have it downloaded on my pc & android tablet, i will try it out at some point
Hi Scott, awesome video, this has been really eye-opening for me and I am close to pulling the trigger on one of these with an X32 and an S16 for my band. I was wanting to run it past you please? We have 26 inputs, including tracks and click... the tracks make up 6 channels, sound fx, strings and keys, all stereo pairs. I'm thinking if I don't send click to FOH and I sum the stereo pairs to mono feed in X32 I can send them as mono which makes 22 outputs to FOH. Am I right thinking that I could assign the outputs on the S16 to be anything I need? Like, could 16 of my 22 outputs come from the 4816-O and the other 6 come from the S16? This would still leave me the 8 on the X32 for IEM mixes (and potentially FOH if the need ever comes up). I thought I needed to buy two 4816-O's but then I remembered the S16 has outputs and I'm hoping I can save the £300 and rack space. TL/DR: Scott, please help me to count...
I have never done it that way, but I believe that should work? I don’t know if the S16 allows you to route other things as the output, as I have not tried that. When I use my s16, output 5 is output 5 on both the 32 and the 16. So I’m not sure
@@ScottUhlMusic Thanks Scott. I'll let you know if I find out definitively :)
Will that splitter only work with System with Ultranet . Or can it be connected to a mixer with Dante?
It’s only for Ultranet
Ultranet is a proprietary protocol used by Midas and Behringer. I don't think other brands will support it
That’s my understanding now as well. Thanks for sharing! I appreciate it!
Correct me if I’m wrong but if you are sending these channels to a FOH that uses an X32 or any of the others in this series, couldn’t you run an Ethernet from the output of this unit to FOH and it work the same without an XLR snake?
That's what I thought!
That makes sense! I bet you could. It’s nice to have this as an option for say Allen and heath boards (which I see everywhere now). But I’m willing to be that would work. And the two would only share gain structure. But I’ve never tried it
So yes and no. I have done this setup using 2 x32’s or x32 rack. I believe it would work with s16/sd16 as well. But not with the small xair units. Because it requires the use 2 aes50 ports, which the smaller units dont have. And this is not using the ultranet port because that is using a “different language” than aes50.
But basically the stage box that you would own has 2 ethernet ports A and B. Port A would be used for all of your gear, while port B would be sent to foh.
In this config, both groups can have separate systems and control but not interfere with each others setup. Tho i do believe scott is correct when the gain structure will be shared between both consoles. But eq and sends and effects can be completely separate.
I’m sorry to say that the X32/M32/XAir series of mixers cannot take Ultranet (a non-Ethernet priority protocol) as an input. The Ultranet ports on these mixers can only be used to output signals from the mixer.
Will bus channel on the xr18 itself still be functional simultaneously?
This doesn’t effect the bus channels at all 👍
Is it possible to use this as a bus output for IEMs? So rather than sending one channel out, you can send all channels out one output and mix your own IEM mix? Does that make sense?
It doesn’t ADD new IEM outputs from something like the xr18 for example. You only get 6 outputs from that, and this won’t automatically add more if that’s what you are asking.
@@ScottUhlMusic yeah I get it. So this isn’t a substitute for p16 monitors or similar, you still only have 6 mono iem outputs. But this does allow me to send individual outputs to the sound guy. So let’s say I am playing with a click live with keys, drums and bass, but prerecorded tracks to the sound guy, and I can separate the tracks (guitar output 1, brass output 2, woodwind output 3, etc) and the sound guy can balance sound as if there’s a full live band in front of him?
Hi All,
Thought I'd leave a comment as a warning that I bought the 4816-O to use with our XR18 and went as far as rewiring the rack with it in place of our transformer isolate splitter boxes but unfortunately I found the noise floor introduced was far too high, the noise is proportional to the gain used on the XR18 so I think its just baked into the system if you use it this way. I was really hoping this would be a new better way of running a self contained inear setup but I think currently the hardware just isnt up to it
Possibly this will work better with the Midas MR18 or possibly the pres in the X32 are quieter
This has worked very well with our xr18. Thanks for commenting, but I want people to know that I personally have NOT had this problem with the xr18 👍
How did you control "mute" via midi ? Is there a CC list for commands?Thanks for the video!
Yup, I’m working on a video about it. I believe it’s midi channel 2 controls the mutes. I do that in my talkback video here: ua-cam.com/video/lbilw_491NA/v-deo.htmlsi=9EvlN0nrKe4px5bG
There are other similar units with INPUTS - 16 input and an 8 in 8 out version. Keep in mind that these inputs are Line Level and do NOT have mic preamps. So in most cases this won't work for a typical band setup with mics. Just an FYI if people go searching for this and stumbles on them. (and... just saw them mentioned in the video :D )
I've think I've heard, but haven't confirmed, that the Input version of this MIDAS device also isn't compatible with the Behringer X32 for some reason.
Thanks for the comment! I appreciate it!
@@OfFormerFame "the Input version of this MIDAS device also isn't compatible with the Behringer X32 for some reason."
Source ?
"There are other similar units with INPUTS - 16 input and an 8 in 8 out version. Keep in mind that these inputs are Line Level and do NOT have mic preamps. So in most cases this won't work for a typical band setup with mics. Just an FYI if people go searching for this and stumbles on them. (and... just saw them mentioned in the video :D )"
Thank you !
@@djabthrash I can’t seem to find one. It is perhaps a rumor I saw. But I understood that the stageconnect functionality is used on the Behringer Wing consoles, not the X32. And the Ultranet on the input version maybe only goes one way?
I think there are some older YT videos discussing using this output device with the x32 that said the input wouldn’t connect properly.
I’d like to be wrong about it, it I don’t have time to verify.
I think a splitter snake before the Behringer is a better move for IEM, mostly because you can gain stage specifically for your in ears and FOH gets a completely raw signal. If you adjust gain on your end, it will affect everyone's monitor, but it will not affect FOH at all. You also won't affect FOH with mutes or vice versa. Honestly, the IEM mixer could die completely with a splitter snake (or somebody could trip over an onstage extension cord) and FOH would go chugging along, whereas your way would be catastrophic to the entire show.
The only downside of a splitter snake is that there's the possibility for FOH and the Behringer to both send phantom power down the same channel, which has the tiniest chance of damaging condenser microphones... this can be easily mitigated with in-line transformers.
I agree, there are definitely pros and cons to each. I personally prefer the pros, but I still kept my art s8 splitter just in case I needed it
Can you use it with the s32 stage box for the x32 digital rack and also how would you be able to do that?
Yup, I use this with my S16 with my X32r. The s16 goes into the AES50 port and the Midas 4816 goes into the Ultranet port. Works great!
Question on the Ultranet outputs:
Could I set the tap points such that I also also have EQ and FX on each channel sent to the 4816-O over Ultranet? Let's say EQ+Reverb on two vocal channels.
Yup, you can. In this video where I do the In/Mute, you just set it to where you want it to output in the chain (pre eq, post eq, etc)
Hey Scott! So did the 4816 replace both of your S8 3-way splitters?
I still have the S8 as a backup, but for the most part I use the 4816 🤘 I always have backup options
Thank you, you explain everithink so clearly🤗
Thank you 🙏
It's like you were listening to my conversation with the band last night. (We may need a split box for an upcoming gig that has house sound). Also, do I spy a new guitar? 🕵
Oh yes!! It’s the P800 from GTRS/Mooer. A nicer one than the one I had. I love it!
I recommend to name, but actually not to numbered what you send to FOH because each engineer has a different way to number their channel at their input level, so they'll usually go ahead and chose their own number coding instead, so that can creates confusion. Other than that, perfect video. Also super helpful!!!
Thanks! And yes, naming the sends is super helpful!
I'm new to this, so this might be a dumb question. But is Ultranet bidirectional? Looking at a traditional floor splitter, we have a series of inputs that you match up with the mixer. And then two sides of the splitter. One for your mixer and one for FOH.
With this, all I see is the Ultranet cable into the splitter. and then to FOH. Where do we plug in all of our stage gear? directly into the Behringer mixer?
I’ve only used Ultranet for this tbh, so I’m not sure. But I’m pretty sure it’s bi directional. We go into the mixer and then out via the MIDAS. I also have an S16 stage box that works very well 👍
@@ScottUhlMusic Thank you for clearing that up. So if I show up to a venue with this IEM rig (Behringer XR18 and Midas 4816-O splitter). I plug the mics on stage (all drums/guitars/vocals) directly into my (clearly labeled) Behringer inputs. And then The Midas 4816-O into FOH?
Brother Scott, BigAL here, how can I do this on my Mackie DL32S?
Any suggestions??
I appreciate your videos.
My understanding from a few commenters is that this device only works with behringer and Midas. That’s my understanding