I don’t care about bike weight nearly as much anymore. While I won’t put on a part that weighs more than whats on currently, it’s not anywhere near the top consideration for me anymore. I also think that you get used to whatever weight it is. Swap something and drop half a pound and you notice it for a couple rides, then it just becomes the new normal.
Weights important but only where it matters. Which is pretty much rotational weight, the wheels/tires. A stem that’s 10 grams lighter isn’t gonna matter.
The weight has to fit the spirit of the bike. I knew your Evil Following was getting sold the minute you put a coil on it. Sure enough the next video it was gone. 120mm bikes need to feel light and climb well. 140mm bikes with Fox36 or Lyric a great all arounder. I've never ridden electronic shifting,, but I don't think it is the secret sauce of a great mtn bike. Im pretty happy with XT and puttingbthe money towards better wheels & suspension.
I used to care about cassette weight until I wore through two XTR cassettes. XT works just as well. Agree that a 120 bike should weigh quite a bit less. Really aggressive tires on a 120 bike can also kill the fun.
I bought a S-works levo last year and I can tell you I love the weight of it! Weights around 49pounds seems like a lot but you get used to it. With the power of the motor it feels like my regular bike most of the time. I think most of the time weight can be your friend and definitely helps when going down keeping momentum helps a lot with not wearing you at as fast. I think if you’re climbing a lot it does come into play but I go up to go down like most people. Man I have only riden my regular bike probably twice since getting the Levo just to much damn fun! Keep all the vids coming Dustin love the content!
I havent weighed my Trek based diy ebike but it is probably around 55lbs with two hub motors and two batteries. It is def harder to toss around with the hub motors and batteries on it, but it is still fun! The batteries can be removed without tools and just a key, and I have spare wheels without motors so I can convert back and forth between mtb and emtb...but I find I never remove the ebike stuff cause it is still fun in a different more daily usable way. But if I wanted to go catch some air, I would def put it back to mtb.
I also think weight isn’t critical, in particular down to grams, but I can feel the difference between 2 of my bikes that are 5lbs apart, even when I put it up on top of the SUV in the rack. If you aren’t in an extreme end of the spectrum, it’s probably not very important among all the factors.
I agree. I have a steel hard tail (29ish lbs) and an enduro bike (36ish lbs) I have more energy left after long climbs on the hard tail. However going down I'm not so sure I could tell a difference 5 lbs apart, obviously one will be more comfortable. I think it would take something like a full fat ebike for me to notice a difference going downhill. I've been on a trek fuel exe (40 ish lbs) and it feels just like my naturally aspirated enduro bike.
Had a xc fully fatigue crack months after dirtjump shenanigans. I did buy another xc alu, but now aware 😅i shouldn't do massive jumps and it was cheap. If i wanted to spend more, I'd go steel, doesn't matter if its a bit heavier. I want to trust it can take that jump 10000 times n more. Unlike a certain submarine.
As a 225lb human riding pretty rough mountain terrain i gave up on weight. My stumpjumper evo is weighing in at 34 even with carbon wheels. My chromag Rootdown is 32. Both are fun and the weight is negligible. I don't need to be on light weight tires or components at my weight.
Man you are spot on. I was in a local shop and asked to the seller about the differences between the Epic Evo and the Epic spec bikes. His answer was "one is for you to have fun, the other is to win races". After that I asked to myself "wtf, aren't we doing mtb to have fun?". Anyway, I bought a Top fuel 8 instead, I also taught it was too heavy, until I tested it. It felt light and awesome, I had a Scott Spark Rc Team 2020 (fantastic bike) but for trails the top fuel is way better (geometry in general and not sketchy on descents). For longer rides i really do not feel difference, maybe only if I was clocking the minutes. I was doing some xc and marathon races but I got tired of the training regimen, now I only ride for fun (i may run on some races but just for the sake of also having a good time). Do jot regret getting my TF 8 at all.
Yeah i understood this pretty quicky, i'm running an oriented XC BMC bike (Twostroke), but with a modern geo. I started to convert it into a more "down country" bike (bigger fork, less HA, dropper, bigger/wider tires, 4 pistons brakes...). The bike is still very playful and fast but really more comfortable and stable on descents. Next step is SCOR 4060ST ahahaha.
Totally agree with you. I have Scott genius trail bike 150ml front/rear. It’s Cush and feel so confident on it. Also have spark rc pro. 24 lbs and don’t have as much fun on it. The only time I appreciate the spark are long distance rides were the goal is wheels mostly on ground and keep the cranks spinning.
I’m running DT Swiss xm481 rims on 350 hubs on a Commencal Meta TR29 (not a light bike by any stretch). Going from the heavy OEM wheelset to that build the difference was noticeable but then again it did drop almost 3lbs of rotating weight (also had Cush Core Pro in the old wheels). I’ve got a Dissector front and Agressor rear waiting to go on in the spring (based on your video) and can’t wait to see how it feels. Also going to be investing in a Shockwiz to really dial the suspension. As you said having a properly setup bike is going to be faster then a Light bike.
Yah man 3lbs of rotation weight is a noticeable difference. And having proper suspension setup is key. I like to run my on the stiffer side to increase pedaling efficiency
Geo and handling will be biggest difference. I ride sb140LR 29 and arc. I found you via arc search. My arc is like 30/31# now w xx1 axs, scr rims w cushcore, oneup pump, dhf/aggressor. When I have setup for xc race it’s like 25/26.
Hey Dustin, as usual bringing out some very thoughtful content. What do you think about Pivot´s? they have the trail 429 and the new switchblade dropping soon?
Thanks dude!! I honestly can give much opinion on pivot. I’ve never had a proper ride on one. I hear good things about the switchblade. I have a buddy on a 429 and he doesn’t love it. But I think if I was going to try one it would be switchblade… but superboost would prevent from buying one in all honesty. Unless the whole industry goes to superboost but I doubt that will happen. Just my thoughts
DBJ, you're a funny guy, in a fricken good way, of course. I think I've said this before??? If I haven't, defo. someone has!!! Props to you dude, on your no nonsense presentation style. And the amount of bikes you've had, in a few years, is insane - drumming or whatever you do for dough, must pay well - top man👍
Dude thanks bro!!! I’m glad people like you can see my no nonsense approach. I’m just a passionate guy and speak from the heart. I appreciate you and your time my friend. Cheers!! 🍻
@@dustinbjohnson Cheers bro - UA-cam needs more down-to-Earth people, like yourself - the World needs more!!! World's gone nutzzz now - it's all downhill from here on (pun sort of intended). Hang loose 🤙 bro! Much love and God bless - Jesus Christ is our only hope - don't know if you're a believer, or not, but hope to see you in Heaven one day bro - seek and ye shall find - it worked for me - life changing for sure (this ain't no "Prosperity Gospel rubbish)! Check out Pastor Brandon Holthaus Rock Harbor Church, Bakersfield, if you wanna search and you wanna good church/good teaching and prophesy watchers - it's all going down now. Much love, hang loose and stay humble bro, you're a good dude 👍👍👍
I’ve had those same rims. Super durable and really light for an i30mm aluminum rim. I think we have all gone down that weight weenie rabbit hole. Tires and rims are one of the biggest factors in weight loss or gain. When you look at the details a more aggressive tire that is wider and on a wider rims, you have a bike that feels more stable and planted. A narrow rim and skinny XC tire will not be able to withstand a fast chunky descent and in essence, not be as fun. My steel geared hardtail is 32# and it’s definitely not a fast climbing bike but because of the wider tires on wider rims it screams down the trails and feels planted. I’m fit #fit4life and stay fit. Climbing my heavy,big tire bikes keeps me fit. Even my gravel bike has 700x40c tires and I ride a century ride at least 1x a month on that so I stay fit.
Weight isnt the most important factor. But if you are riding two bikes with very identical geometry and one weighs 5-10lbs more than the other it matters, you feel the weight. 1-2 lbs can be masked but 5-10lbs makes a world of difference, even with E mountain bikes. But most people who arent racing shouldn't really be worried about 1-2 lbs.
Any object that is dropped that has weight will not drop any faster than something that is lighter. For example a bowling ball will not drop faster than a basketball. So therefore, for descents, weight will not matter. At all. The only situation where weight will come into play is climbing, but even then a cassette with a wide range of gears will compensate for that weight (and as you said, your muscle conditioning). You hit the nail on the head when you said the only factors that come into play that could decrease or increase descent speed are the wheels (especially tires) and suspension system.
I'm happy with a +/- 30 pounds full suspension bike it's a sweet spot for a large, I'm not talking about number but feeling, I have a 42.5 pound 26" dh bike that I love but I truly enjoy my 150 travel trail bike more just because I feel less fatigue, quality of travel and a bit less bulk on the arms compensate for the 40mm of travel lost, at least to me in that situation...
As a lightweight rider (120lbs), weight def makes a difference to me. But...only to a certain extent. I am fine with nearly any setup up until about 35lbs. Which is practically any bike out there other than downhill. I dont weigh anything or buy anything because of the weight. My first MTB was an old 90's no suspension 26" that was around 20lbs. My current bike is about 32lb. I think most bikes I would buy or build these days would be around the same weight. Seems ideal for me. Heavy enough compoments I am not replacing parts every season, light enough not to feel like a tank. Also...lots of the coolest looking parts are most def not the lightest.
I completely get what you're saying. But you can feel the difference between an 11kg bike vs 14kg. That said, yes, other things are more important. Also, no, 50g, 500g you won't feel the difference. Bottom line is, I think it's OK to look at part weights, but don't obsess over it. I am also guilty of this, and starting to relax a bit.
I try to relay this message to customers that come into my shop caring too much about weight. If you're looking at an S-works Epic because it's light, but spend a lot of time bashing rocks in Moab, your bike is gonna spend a lot of time in the shop. I look at durability and performance first. Solid brakes, dialed suspension (preferably coil), reliable hubs and the least amount proprietary BS as possible. Just go ride your bike. 😀
Yeah I could probably lose a light weight xc bike myself. So a bike lb really isn’t gonna do anything for me. Little benefit here or there like rear tire tread can add up to feeling more or less tired. But by far it is those times where I’m in the best shape that I find my best riding. So much more in control both up and down.
I think unless you are racing bikes, weight doesn’t matter. I think parts can make a bike performance better…butto faster on any bike a person has to improve as a rider…or maybe the person has to lose some weight. I think a person’s weight matters more than the bike’s weight.
yo man, nice vid as always!!! do you have done an review of the rs superdeluxe? i'm thinking to buy one to replace the classic fox dps on my stumpy.... would be great to hear your opinion.... i like the "real world opinion" you do. Keep it going man ✌
I weigh 233.6 lbs. My bike is an XXL Trek Rumblefish Elite (23"). My backpack usually clocks in at about 10lbs. I don't give a rats arse what my bike weighs. Weight weenie stuff is for XC racers, and should never enter the mind of a trail/enduro/DH rider....ever.
I find heavier bike hold a line better. Every time i ride light bikes aggressively downhill they just get tinked around and knocked off line. I prefer the more stable planted feel personally
Pink bike article: why you shouldn’t worry about weight so much
www.pinkbike.com/news/why-you-shouldnt-worry-about-weight-much.html
I don’t care about bike weight nearly as much anymore. While I won’t put on a part that weighs more than whats on currently, it’s not anywhere near the top consideration for me anymore. I also think that you get used to whatever weight it is. Swap something and drop half a pound and you notice it for a couple rides, then it just becomes the new normal.
Yeah definitely! I never purposely try to make my bike heavy. But it weighs what it weighs at the end of the day.
Weights important but only where it matters. Which is pretty much rotational weight, the wheels/tires. A stem that’s 10 grams lighter isn’t gonna matter.
The weight has to fit the spirit of the bike. I knew your Evil Following was getting sold the minute you put a coil on it. Sure enough the next video it was gone. 120mm bikes need to feel light and climb well. 140mm bikes with Fox36 or Lyric a great all arounder. I've never ridden electronic shifting,, but I don't think it is the secret sauce of a great mtn bike. Im pretty happy with XT and puttingbthe money towards better wheels & suspension.
You are spot on my friend! 🍻
I used to care about cassette weight until I wore through two XTR cassettes. XT works just as well. Agree that a 120 bike should weigh quite a bit less. Really aggressive tires on a 120 bike can also kill the fun.
I bought a S-works levo last year and I can tell you I love the weight of it!
Weights around 49pounds seems like a lot but you get used to it.
With the power of the motor it feels like my regular bike most of the time. I think most of the time weight can be your friend and definitely helps when going down keeping momentum helps a lot with not wearing you at as fast.
I think if you’re climbing a lot it does come into play but I go up to go down like most people.
Man I have only riden my regular bike probably twice since getting the Levo just to much damn fun!
Keep all the vids coming Dustin love the content!
I like the weight of my emtb
I havent weighed my Trek based diy ebike but it is probably around 55lbs with two hub motors and two batteries. It is def harder to toss around with the hub motors and batteries on it, but it is still fun! The batteries can be removed without tools and just a key, and I have spare wheels without motors so I can convert back and forth between mtb and emtb...but I find I never remove the ebike stuff cause it is still fun in a different more daily usable way. But if I wanted to go catch some air, I would def put it back to mtb.
I also think weight isn’t critical, in particular down to grams, but I can feel the difference between 2 of my bikes that are 5lbs apart, even when I put it up on top of the SUV in the rack. If you aren’t in an extreme end of the spectrum, it’s probably not very important among all the factors.
Good point. And I totally agree you can definitely feel the difference on 5lbs especially back to back
I agree. I have a steel hard tail (29ish lbs) and an enduro bike (36ish lbs) I have more energy left after long climbs on the hard tail. However going down I'm not so sure I could tell a difference 5 lbs apart, obviously one will be more comfortable. I think it would take something like a full fat ebike for me to notice a difference going downhill. I've been on a trek fuel exe (40 ish lbs) and it feels just like my naturally aspirated enduro bike.
Had a xc fully fatigue crack months after dirtjump shenanigans. I did buy another xc alu, but now aware 😅i shouldn't do massive jumps and it was cheap. If i wanted to spend more, I'd go steel, doesn't matter if its a bit heavier. I want to trust it can take that jump 10000 times n more. Unlike a certain submarine.
As a 225lb human riding pretty rough mountain terrain i gave up on weight. My stumpjumper evo is weighing in at 34 even with carbon wheels. My chromag Rootdown is 32. Both are fun and the weight is negligible. I don't need to be on light weight tires or components at my weight.
Man you are spot on. I was in a local shop and asked to the seller about the differences between the Epic Evo and the Epic spec bikes. His answer was "one is for you to have fun, the other is to win races". After that I asked to myself "wtf, aren't we doing mtb to have fun?". Anyway, I bought a Top fuel 8 instead, I also taught it was too heavy, until I tested it. It felt light and awesome, I had a Scott Spark Rc Team 2020 (fantastic bike) but for trails the top fuel is way better (geometry in general and not sketchy on descents). For longer rides i really do not feel difference, maybe only if I was clocking the minutes. I was doing some xc and marathon races but I got tired of the training regimen, now I only ride for fun (i may run on some races but just for the sake of also having a good time). Do jot regret getting my TF 8 at all.
Yeah i understood this pretty quicky, i'm running an oriented XC BMC bike (Twostroke), but with a modern geo. I started to convert it into a more "down country" bike (bigger fork, less HA, dropper, bigger/wider tires, 4 pistons brakes...). The bike is still very playful and fast but really more comfortable and stable on descents. Next step is SCOR 4060ST ahahaha.
Totally agree with you. I have Scott genius trail bike 150ml front/rear. It’s Cush and feel so confident on it. Also have spark rc pro. 24 lbs and don’t have as much fun on it. The only time I appreciate the spark are long distance rides were the goal is wheels mostly on ground and keep the cranks spinning.
I’m running DT Swiss xm481 rims on 350 hubs on a Commencal Meta TR29 (not a light bike by any stretch). Going from the heavy OEM wheelset to that build the difference was noticeable but then again it did drop almost 3lbs of rotating weight (also had Cush Core Pro in the old wheels). I’ve got a Dissector front and Agressor rear waiting to go on in the spring (based on your video) and can’t wait to see how it feels. Also going to be investing in a Shockwiz to really dial the suspension. As you said having a properly setup bike is going to be faster then a Light bike.
Yah man 3lbs of rotation weight is a noticeable difference. And having proper suspension setup is key. I like to run my on the stiffer side to increase pedaling efficiency
Geo and handling will be biggest difference. I ride sb140LR 29 and arc. I found you via arc search. My arc is like 30/31# now w xx1 axs, scr rims w cushcore, oneup pump, dhf/aggressor. When I have setup for xc race it’s like 25/26.
Hey Dustin, as usual bringing out some very thoughtful content. What do you think about Pivot´s? they have the trail 429 and the new switchblade dropping soon?
Thanks dude!! I honestly can give much opinion on pivot. I’ve never had a proper ride on one. I hear good things about the switchblade. I have a buddy on a 429 and he doesn’t love it. But I think if I was going to try one it would be switchblade… but superboost would prevent from buying one in all honesty. Unless the whole industry goes to superboost but I doubt that will happen. Just my thoughts
DBJ, you're a funny guy, in a fricken good way, of course. I think I've said this before??? If I haven't, defo. someone has!!! Props to you dude, on your no nonsense presentation style. And the amount of bikes you've had, in a few years, is insane - drumming or whatever you do for dough, must pay well - top man👍
Dude thanks bro!!! I’m glad people like you can see my no nonsense approach. I’m just a passionate guy and speak from the heart. I appreciate you and your time my friend. Cheers!! 🍻
@@dustinbjohnson Cheers bro - UA-cam needs more down-to-Earth people, like yourself - the World needs more!!! World's gone nutzzz now - it's all downhill from here on (pun sort of intended).
Hang loose 🤙 bro! Much love and God bless - Jesus Christ is our only hope - don't know if you're a believer, or not, but hope to see you in Heaven one day bro - seek and ye shall find - it worked for me - life changing for sure (this ain't no "Prosperity Gospel rubbish)! Check out Pastor Brandon Holthaus Rock Harbor Church, Bakersfield, if you wanna search and you wanna good church/good teaching and prophesy watchers - it's all going down now.
Much love, hang loose and stay humble bro, you're a good dude 👍👍👍
I’ve had those same rims. Super durable and really light for an i30mm aluminum rim. I think we have all gone down that weight weenie rabbit hole. Tires and rims are one of the biggest factors in weight loss or gain. When you look at the details a more aggressive tire that is wider and on a wider rims, you have a bike that feels more stable and planted. A narrow rim and skinny XC tire will not be able to withstand a fast chunky descent and in essence, not be as fun. My steel geared hardtail is 32# and it’s definitely not a fast climbing bike but because of the wider tires on wider rims it screams down the trails and feels planted. I’m fit #fit4life and stay fit. Climbing my heavy,big tire bikes keeps me fit. Even my gravel bike has 700x40c tires and I ride a century ride at least 1x a month on that so I stay fit.
Weight isnt the most important factor. But if you are riding two bikes with very identical geometry and one weighs 5-10lbs more than the other it matters, you feel the weight. 1-2 lbs can be masked but 5-10lbs makes a world of difference, even with E mountain bikes. But most people who arent racing shouldn't really be worried about 1-2 lbs.
Any object that is dropped that has weight will not drop any faster than something that is lighter. For example a bowling ball will not drop faster than a basketball. So therefore, for descents, weight will not matter. At all. The only situation where weight will come into play is climbing, but even then a cassette with a wide range of gears will compensate for that weight (and as you said, your muscle conditioning). You hit the nail on the head when you said the only factors that come into play that could decrease or increase descent speed are the wheels (especially tires) and suspension system.
I'm happy with a +/- 30 pounds full suspension bike it's a sweet spot for a large, I'm not talking about number but feeling, I have a 42.5 pound 26" dh bike that I love but I truly enjoy my 150 travel trail bike more just because I feel less fatigue, quality of travel and a bit less bulk on the arms compensate for the 40mm of travel lost, at least to me in that situation...
I agree dude! 30ish lbs is the sweet spot!
As a lightweight rider (120lbs), weight def makes a difference to me. But...only to a certain extent. I am fine with nearly any setup up until about 35lbs. Which is practically any bike out there other than downhill. I dont weigh anything or buy anything because of the weight. My first MTB was an old 90's no suspension 26" that was around 20lbs. My current bike is about 32lb. I think most bikes I would buy or build these days would be around the same weight. Seems ideal for me. Heavy enough compoments I am not replacing parts every season, light enough not to feel like a tank. Also...lots of the coolest looking parts are most def not the lightest.
I completely get what you're saying. But you can feel the difference between an 11kg bike vs 14kg.
That said, yes, other things are more important. Also, no, 50g, 500g you won't feel the difference.
Bottom line is, I think it's OK to look at part weights, but don't obsess over it. I am also guilty of this, and starting to relax a bit.
I think you are spot on! My problem is I’m all or nothing. And I become obsessed with everything 🤣
I’m just like you man. I have determined there are 3 weight classes of bikes that all have their purpose. Sub 24, 24-28 ish and above 28.
That’s a good way to look at it! I agree!
I try to relay this message to customers that come into my shop caring too much about weight. If you're looking at an S-works Epic because it's light, but spend a lot of time bashing rocks in Moab, your bike is gonna spend a lot of time in the shop. I look at durability and performance first. Solid brakes, dialed suspension (preferably coil), reliable hubs and the least amount proprietary BS as possible. Just go ride your bike. 😀
Hi, …other question.. what pedals are those?
The new crank bros trails. Love them
@@dustinbjohnson thank you :-)
The weight of the bike doesn't matter as much as your own weight that goes on the bike.
That’s a great point. I’ve always wondered the effects of that.
Yeah I could probably lose a light weight xc bike myself. So a bike lb really isn’t gonna do anything for me. Little benefit here or there like rear tire tread can add up to feeling more or less tired. But by far it is those times where I’m in the best shape that I find my best riding. So much more in control both up and down.
I think unless you are racing bikes, weight doesn’t matter. I think parts can make a bike performance better…butto faster on any bike a person has to improve as a rider…or maybe the person has to lose some weight. I think a person’s weight matters more than the bike’s weight.
yo man, nice vid as always!!! do you have done an review of the rs superdeluxe? i'm thinking to buy one to replace the classic fox dps on my stumpy.... would be great to hear your opinion.... i like the "real world opinion" you do. Keep it going man ✌
Ya i actually try not to drink now cause it kills the ride every time.
Dude it’s crazy how much it affects your performance!
Tire compound,weight and tread pattern are the only things that matter. In that order.
I actually prefer a metal bike with some weight.
I weigh 233.6 lbs. My bike is an XXL Trek Rumblefish Elite (23"). My backpack usually clocks in at about 10lbs. I don't give a rats arse what my bike weighs. Weight weenie stuff is for XC racers, and should never enter the mind of a trail/enduro/DH rider....ever.
All things considered equal I bet a light bike descends better but ong it don’t matter
I find heavier bike hold a line better. Every time i ride light bikes aggressively downhill they just get tinked around and knocked off line. I prefer the more stable planted feel personally
Trust me we've all been there buddy
Will we see a new bike for 2024?
Now...in competition...weigh everything, imo.
If I was a pro XC racer yah totally! But I’m just a mailman Strava racer 😂
You need to put skis on your mountain bike 😊