Good for you!!! I'm still trapped with one that has traits but cut off the main evil one. Yes we have permanent scars! I've had a lifetime of Narc abuse from family, husband, and "friends". Hugs!
Good for you!! Some have to I choose not to for my own reasons. Yes there's no love because evil isn't capable of love. Once you understand that 💯 you can deal. And living 1000 miles away helps!!
Setting boundaries in my family was a death sentence. No contact became the only way to survive.. I did all I could to show them loving kindness, but they ate me alive for it. I almost died. My heart goes out to all of us who survived this type of abuse. I'm still working on thriving instead of just surviving. Thank you Dr. Carter, you are saving lives.
Lol We have never had a family “Re-Union.” We were never United in the first place. Like scattered pearls when the string breaks. However. My kids & their families, my husband & I have happy family gatherings every month!
@@SweetGothic16 I have distant family members that I like but they don't understand my intermediate family's narcissist dynamic. I'm not going to explain to them that my N mother has been tricking them all their lives, which is why I don't want to be there with her. It's much easier on all of us if I just claim my car broke down. 😆
@@joannasaadati8810 - If they don’t enjoy your company it’s their loss. Just focus on making the best version of yourself by using that anger as fuel for your future success’s. People change for 2 reasons…….LOVE or HATE.
Growing up in such families is so miserable! We face all kinds of mental issues early on. I've always felt "robbed" and deprived of my future chances. Possibly many of us never reach our true potential in life. I sometimes wonder if the so-called "normal" family exists at all? ☹
Also facts😂 Narc families take strength, and in my humble note-pusher opinion, the world is like a narc family. Despite the pain and uncertainty, we will be equipped with the strength to fix these things for the next generations ❤️ I wonder the same thing, but those normal families will be yours and mine, and all the family lines from those engaging with these communities:) If it’s not here, it’ll start here 🥺
Absolutely robbed !! Cheated , & Used for supply !!! What a horrible way to treat one's children . The damage is awful when they don't get help to get out .
That's the one that really hit home for me too. I have a narc sister who, after multiple failed marriages and moving every year, tells me I don't use what I learned in college. Really? I'm a first generation college student who uses what I learn each and every day, single and responsible, taking care of our 95 yo dad. She is absent. Amazing how some people think their opinions of us matter!
OMG- all the kids of narcissists are SO EXCITED for this one!!! Esp because that usually means some of your siblings turn out narcissistic, aunts, uncles- it's like a disease that spreads and infects everyone!
I was from a narcissistic family but did not know what narcissism was at the time back in my late thirties (I am 60 now) Well, one Thanksgiving they just completely flipped my switch and I thought I just can't take these people anymore and right before desert I just walked out, got in my car and drove away. I have not had no contact with them since. I understand that it's not for everyone but I have never regretted my decision and have lived a very good life without them.
My family has disintigrated, and I'm totally fine with that. I don't speak to my sibling, and my parents are divorced. They don't speak either. Sometimes I just sigh with relief. Finally, It's all over. No drama, no headache, no feuds, no anxiety.
@@zoundstreetop That's what the narcs do - they break their own families. They make insane, impossible demands. And their bad behaviour is inherited. In my family, we have fought so many times (and I'm certainly not innocent!) that I'm burnt out. There are no emotions left. I'm totally empty. If you still have the capacity to mourn and regret, you are not totally worn out. That's something to value. I'm passed that stage.
@@kimlarsson7259 So sorry to hear that, Kim! Hope you will recover and be able to become part of the solution in this world, instead of part of the problem. People, who have hit rock bottom, might have great insight to share, later on in life.
@@gardenjoy5223 I'm ok these days... The biggest mistakes and troubles are behind me. As for my family, it is what it is. It's not like I have to dig for answers anymore. It just collapsed. It was obviously dysfunctional. My mothers egocentricity has always been a huge problem. She has worn me out, totally. That there are vital parts missing in her head, that I knew. But listening to Dr C, I understand things better - again. She's a narc on the middle of the scale. Simple as that. Yeah, I hope I can be a part of the solution 🌟 I have not inherited moms pathology. That's something. I am not a drunken egomaniac. Thanx for support/take care
Someone mentioned infantilization, and I can totally relate to that. Becoming an adult was totally weird, cause my parents (especially mom) didn't want me to grow up, but at the same time, I wasn't taken care of on a deeper level. I was treated like a kid, but in reality, noone really cared. Very confusing. Whenever I tried to open up, I was misunderstood or simply ignored. My parents always had something going on that was more important than my feelings. I can fully understand why narcissistic parents want their kids to be kids forever...
@@noneyourbusiness7311 Yup, they don't age on the inside. I think all narcs want their children to stop aging. And when you're are 50, you are still not treated like an adult. It's your own job to break free.
@@kimlarsson7259 absolutely and one reason they dispise you even more. How dare you actually become a mature adult and leave them in your dust! They raise (you know what I mean) you to "take care of them" and force you to mature way before you should but the end result is not what they want. They aren't capable of thinking it through. So once again they LOSE!! And they are sore losers so best to stay away!!! It helps living 1000 miles away!! My WIN!!
@@noneyourbusiness7311 Yeah, that's another problem - they force you into adulthood, but stop you from maturing. It's maddening. I had that contractionary childhood. I took an emotional responsibilty I never got credit for, but I remained childish far to long.. Very confusing. It's all part of a double reality. If you grow in a narcissistic environment, you live with two narratives and two infantile parents, who don't know what they are doing. They pull you left and right at the same time. Since they don't even know themselves, they can't give you a clear direction. And when you DO mature, they get envious of your looks, your dates, your sexual encounters, your vitality etc. And if you regress, you are accused of being immature. Jesus Christ on a motorbike...
Agree! I’m almost 50 and I feel like I have never been taught how to properly “adult”. It’s like it gives my mother a feeling of superiority to watch me struggle, yet she offers no help and just keeps kicking me when I’m down. Even though I’ve lived with this all my life, I still feel completely dumbfounded and bewildered at her cruelty.
What would we do without our sweet dogs? My dog is laying near me and my 21 year old cat is sleeping on top of the couch back that I'm on - You can tell that Dr. Carter is as mellow, loving and wise off air too, the way his dog so comfortably and peacefully lays near him.
Gus! I’m always looking for Gus! I’ve listened to so many of these videos now, my Golden Retriever, Gracie, recognizes Dr C’s voice and comes and lays at my feet. I’m sure she thinks, there’s our friend again saying wise and encouraging words.
As I read these comments, I realize I’m not alone. Imparting life skills to a child is perhaps the most important role of the parents. I have lived most of my life under the delusion that I failed my parents when in fact, they are the ones who failed me.
Perfectly stated. They even had the nerve to say that I ruined their life. Quite the opposite!! They’re just like their father the devil. They have it all in reverse.
I am glad I am not alone, when I was growing up I was disalusioned into thinking my family was the norm. They were not then, but maybe they are now that there are more families with abusive situations. Which is sad that more families are not as happy or safe as they could be. I realized that the one thing that I was missing that shows up in my adult life is emotional support. My mom and dad can't give me that. I tried looking for it from other people like relationships from men. I found what I was looking for in myself instead.
Most interesting. When my high school friends were starting to work at FF restaurants and other kinds of work, my mother encouraged me to stay home. My dad never had much clout because, as a serial adulterer, he cowered before my mother. Narc families nurture entitlement in their children. But looking back now, I see that my screwed up, growth retarded childhood and adulthood. were the circumstances that allowed me to get saved. Even after I was saved, my behavior remained aberrant for decades. I have only recently managed to escape from the Island of Memyselfandi.
Narcassistic families are hell. 5 years now contact. Anyone struggling with this, please know, it does get better, it does get easier and happiness is just around the corner for you.
It’s like being in a cult. Toeing the line is the only option. So sad, because eventually we have to choose. I chose to go against their doctrine and it ended in complete alienation from all my family. But I’m getting better and am glad I’m out of it. Thank you again for such a wise video. Sending good vibes and strength to anyone else in this terrible situation.
By merely setting boundaries & not allowing the abuse, my narc mother & two narc brothers cut me out of her trust & will. If my father was alive he’d be livid. She made me the “black sheep” of the family since my earliest memory
Same here--my mother plans to leave me half of what she leaves my siblings--they are on meth, alcoholic and mistreated their kids. I'm the only "normal" one in the family, and was my father's favorite kid, which drove her nuts. They all use her and are waiting for her to die--none of them help her when she's sick or needs to go the store--she can't drive anymore. It's all so sick. I live 2000 miles away. I try not to think about it.
I cut myself out of the abuse when it started to hurt my children. I never thought that my family would sink that low. When I finally started standing up to my mom & sister, my mother told me that I needed therapy because I was full of anger. The therapist agreed that I was doing the right thing. The more I showed who I was and what I wasn’t going to tolerate the more mean and nasty they both became. I had no choice but to cut off my relationship completely. I didn’t want my children to be around that kind of behaviour. I didn’t want them to think that it’s okay to treat other people so horribly. I miss my dad, but he chose to support my mom; even though he could see the horrible behaviour!
My mom TRIED to stop the cycles of narcissistic abuse that she grew up with. But it doesn't stop with one or even two or three generations. She worked so hard to stop it, for my brother and me. There was so much of it around us at all times, it was constant. I didn't even see it until I was an adult. My mom started having better boundaries, when she started going through narcissistic abuse therapy, and I learned a lot through that process. But now that I am a mom and having to deal with the family unit on my own, as a mom, I am having to go no-contact with many many people and put up my own firm boundaries. These videos are extremely helpful.
Yes, I too have spent years dealing with grief. For the loss of people still alive. I believe that one of the most difficult things to do is to accept that your own narcissistic mother really, genuinely doesn't love you. Or even care for you. And not to take it personally. Now that's a challenge! But when you understand that they are not even capable of love, it helps a lot. I have been no contact for 20 years. It was the only way I could have a life. That, and 30 years of therapy! I have never regretted it, and even when it gets tricky at the end of her life, I have already grieved.
My mum is the last one .. dad died 10 years ago.. narc in-laws died .. one left then my mind and heart will be free totally free. Mum took the poison 💉 so it shouldn't be much longer. Sad to feel that way but it's true. There is healing when they die!
@@joywebster2678 only when you relive it. Start training your mind not to think about them or what they did to you if it's that upsetting. When you are thinking of them or a event that's upsetting force yourself to think about something else. Start singing and dancing if possible. Pray. Ask God to help you it really is easier once you really don't care anymore and realize its their loss to have missed out on "kind loving YOU" .. Best wishes to your best life ❤
@@joywebster2678 it does take time. An average of 3 years. Sometimes more but the goal is to feel a little more free every day. Talk to yourself..your brain hears and will react to your WORDS!! IM WORTHY OF LOVE I DIDNT DESERVE WHAT HAPPENED TO ME THEY WILL ANSWER TO GOD FOR WHAT THEY DID I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM IT MUST BE HARD TO HAVE THEIR THOUGHTS THEIR EVIL DEEDS AND WORDS ARE NOT MY FAULT I AM NOT A VICTIM BUT SURVIVOR!! I WILL THRIVE AND FEEL ALIVE MY HEART IS FULL OF LOVE THEY HURT ME BUT THEY DIDN'T BREAK ME BECAUSE I AM STRONGER THAN THEM!! you get the point
@@noneyourbusiness7311 You don't need them to die to be totally free. I doubt, that if you need them to die, you will experience any freedom, once the last one does. Your heart seems to be poisoned and I do NOT blame you for that. By the way: A vaccine is not a poison. You are much more in this still, then you want to admit to yourself. I recommend you get some real counseling to help you find the freedom, you so long for. Indeed, you are worthy of love and indeed, you did NOT deserve what happened to you. Nor do you deserve it eating you alive still. The idea is to work through the abuse, not around it.
A series sounds great , after reading how many people have had to leave their families behind just to Survive . I knew that I wasn't the only one ....but WOW ....😱👀👀👀👀 look how many their Are !!
I love your videos, Dr. Carter, but this is one I think I needed most. Being the only member of my family to see it for what it is, can make me question if I'm the problem. You just described my family to a tee and validated my need to keep my distance. Thank you.
@ Erin Lee Me three! I've spent the better part of my 60 years thinking and sometimes being told I was the problem or to "not make waves' or asked, "Who do YOU think YOU are?" Thankfully, I'm here and now well aware of the fact that I'm not the problem. And neither are you, btw. You know what? We got this, and we got character too. I'm planning on cutting off all ties and going incommunicado. I hear it's nice this time of year! 😆
Leave. Don’t look back. Edit: My turn to give them the silent treatment. But my 67-year-old sister died last fall unexpectedly. I did not respond. She was in her third year of giving me the silent treatment because she was a golden child and she sided with the narcissistic parents. They gossip about me, for the last time. I did nothing to her. We exchanged Christmas cards, birthday cards, called each other. I sent her books. One day about four years ago she didn’t take my call or return the call. And the birthday cards stopped the Christmas cards stopped. What did the narcissistic parents tell her about me? Doesn’t matter because they gossiped about me. I did nothing to her. But that’s what narcissistic immature parents do. They are so insecure they draw their children to them and turn their children against each other. My twin sister did the same thing. But I always bring to the attention that she raised her two boys the same way as my parents raised me and my bullying brother along with my two flying monkey gossiping sisters. My twin sisters had one boy shoot himself at age 14 and older narcissistic golden boy went on a crack cocaine spree for 12 years and destroyed a bunch of people lives. Yet they’re gossiping about me. So I disown all of them. Going on five years. I am at peace. Amazing how that works.
You talked about my whole childhood 😢 I was just 20 when my first STOP came just because I coudn‘t handle it no more. I moved out. But it didn‘t ‘t stop. I was 22 when I totally broke up with them. 🛑 I‘m 40 now and never met them again. I‘m so so proud of my young self for having the strength to make that cut.
I broke free from my narcissistic mother and flying monkey siblings. I have grown children, grandchildren, and friends. But, I have a lonely emptiness too.
@@Denise00700 It is very challenging. Who knew that the world was so f--ked up? No one knew about narcissists and their robotic like evil doings. But now we know. Now we can accept what is so overwhelming to know. That our family, our parents, were disordered and as a result, we were abused. My thinking is...I still have life to live. I am sorry it will be without them, but that was their choice. I am going to keep moving forward and keep creating a life that I want. Focus on yourself and what you want. Time to get them out of your head. One day at a time. : )
I wish I had heard this as a teenager. Now I'm almost 60, as geographicly far away from my brother as possible - everyone else is dead - and on a journey of finally understanding what was going on in my home. Alice Miller's books helped a lot, but your videos are like the handle on the door and the cherry on the cake. Thank you so much ♥️
I can't wait to watch. I'm feeling this exactly. I am my narcissistic parents full time caretaker and I'm becoming so depressed and not well. I thought I could handle it, but it's killing me.
That is dreadful. I have other siblings and thankfully I don't have to see my mother's face except on birthdays or Christmas. Would love to pass on her funeral. They're shocked when they see that empaths also have a nasty side if pushed too far albeit it takes a lot.
I think we all think we can handle it -- and it's certainly what the REST of the world tells us, in part so THEY don't have to deal with it -- but then there are the unpredictable surprises 🤯
That’s awful, I really feel for you. Try to get even fives minutes of you time. I’m hoping this vid helps me understand how to deal with mine! Best wishes.
Thank you, Dr. C!!! I’ve suffered for most of my life and was Scapegoated early on in my childhood. It drove me to attempt suicide many times as a teenager. I still grieve about my childhood all the time. You’re a gem and I’m glad you’re here to guide us. 🙏
You know, each time you read your own UA-cam name, you are keeping yourself in a certain mindset. Why don't you change it into 'Overcoming Millennial'? You've dealt with severe emotional abuse and still live to tell it. Your grief is real and called for. I do hope, that you will be able to see the gem in yourself. You've endured tremendous pressure and still are able to shine! Satan tried to crush you, but God made you into a diamond. Once the heavy part of the grief is over, you will be able to reach out to become your best self. Give yourself time and pursue righteousness and kindness. You will be able to shine a strong light into a dark world. May God bless you and make you a blessing.
The other night I dreamed I was at a family gathering. I had to get up and take Rescue Remedy to calm myself. I cut off all contact with all of my family in 2009 but one narc sister still won’t leave me in peace. I’m planning on moving and “disappearing “ to get these people out of my life.
One dominant narcissist is bad enough. Having two dominant ones who are best buds is much worse. They both target me. All the rest of the siblings (I have six in all) are enablers and they scapegoat me. Family was never safe for me, even when growing up. No contact x 4 years and wished I had done it sooner.
See their absence as THE GREATEST BLESSING OF YOUR LIFE! Bury them (alive) in peace. In your heart, forgive them their diabolical ways, and wish OURSELF PEACE. Go out and make new friends and community. One day, you rise, thrive and shine without them, and they will not even be a memory. The joy of your life will be real.
I am so grateful to be watching one of your videos, now that I’ve escaped my narc family. No more conditioning, financial abuse, panic attacks....I feel empowered and safe in my own home. Your videos have been a major help to me. I never imagined I’d make it to the other side.
My mother literally poisoned all of my relationships within the family. My brother's kids have fully formed opinions of me; yet have spent exactly no time with me. Thanks for another superb video. This one was extra-resonant.
Accept that you have lost your family. They aren't going to change. They will still beat you down. You have to survive. If they live with you it won't be easy but you can do it. Continue to be your own true self.
Yup .. my mother .. my way or the highway.. multiple ugly divorces.. her mother, my grandmother was the enabler. Lots of anger, threatened by nonconformity.. it was the whole family really.
Born in an Indian family I’m expected to treat parents with respect always and make them proud no matter what. Even at 30 the narc traits, gaslighting threw me off a million times. I realized that they are asking for third degree treatment. It took me a while to realize i can’t talk any sense or call them out ever on anything or even have a normal deep conversation on anything. It’s not a two way street but i can make my half of the street one way. I still want to believe they were deeply hurt as the root cause.
My narcissist mom has got cancer and may die soon. My narcissist brother is not only the worst, most malicious narcissist in the family, he’s also gone completely insane and is very dangerous. My sister is not a full blown narcissist but she is not far from it. She wants nothing to do with any of us and I haven’t seen her in over 10 years. My dad is normal but he’s 90 years old and demented and I don’t know how much longer he’ll live. I’m the youngest one in the family and I’ve struggled with severe anxiety all my life. But I have survived 💪🏻 still could need some therapy though.. can’t wait to see this video
@@wheelerpat8 she is not smart. She’s dumb. And she looks down on me/us. That’s how she’s handled it all - By thinking she’s better than us. That’s narcissistic. She doesn’t even realize it. She’s become like the one she hates the most. Our mom. I’m not a narcissist but she hates me too. I don’t know why, I always adored her and looked up to her, only to grow up and realize that she hates me and is jealous of me. I live in the same city as her. She doesn’t want to meet me. She was being condescending the last time I spoke to her. I have never done anything to her. She’s just mean, and not very smart. She hasn’t even figured out our mom is a narcissist yet, and that’s why she is how she is. If she knew, maybe she wouldn’t be so bitter.. narcs do what narcs do.. it’s nothing personal
Yep. I grew up in that same type of family. Father was present but the worst narc of the bunch. His greatest joy was to watch his children’s reaction to his vehement belittling. My brother is basically the only birth family I have left and he deeply hates me. I have come to realize that all these years I actually loved the person I hoped he could be. I think that what he hates most about me is the fact that I survived the trauma of all that narcissistic abuse and learned to be a better human being. Even as a child, I was determined that I would never treat my children the way I saw my siblings being treated. However, my desire to love and to see the best in others left me wide open to his narc abuse. Since other family members have died, he is now all alone. But, he won’t stay alone for long. He will find a new victim. God help them.
Katarina Sedeniussen i hear you. My sister is/was the same. Many years passed before we reunited. And that’s how I came to the conclusion that I did. I stand by my comment. I hope you both can come together someday and find healing and family.
Always remember you have the right to walk away and claim your own independence and happiness away from this people. Blood doesn't make family. I went no contact with my family
I've been stuck with my narcissistic family since March 2020 when the pandemic started. It's been a tough year and a half, the fatigue is setting in, and I'm desperate to get a breather. My only hope is to try and get approved for a bank loan sometime next year to help me in getting my own little apartment / condo. This place is driving me nuts, but videos like these give me hope.
I’m in the exact same situation! I cannot take the constant yelling and bickering anymore, and they wonder why I “have such an attitude”! Once I leave, I doubt I’ll ever come back even to visit. I hope you got out and are happy now. I’m hopefully close to that - my bf and I are looking into moving in together, so that will help with the costs!
"dominance superceding love." This singular statement says it all. This is the briefest most understandable definition of narcissism I have heard, ever! It's so helpful because as soon as the power struggle starts then you know you're getting into dangerous territory either with your own narcissism or someone else's. Thankyou Dr. Carter
Thanks, Michele. If you haven't seen the video, A New Way Of Defining Narcissism, please do. Based on your comment, it would resonate, and it's one of my favorites. Dr. C
This video speaks straight to my soul because I have a very narcissistic family especially in my father's side. Most of them have such self-centered energy to the point that they look down on family members who have less than them. I'm planning to break off from them to have my own sense of peaceful identity.
What I have found is that once you go with no contact with the narcissist, you may lose other family members, too. I wasn't really expecting that, but so be it. Once you see it, there is no going back.
I am 67 and it has taken me decades to figure out my family of origin and the dynamics that were at play. I pulled back and gray rocked my parents and was able to get through raising my children as a single parent that way. (I never estranged my parents from their grand children which I am now experiencing, though there certainly would have been just cause.) I was the scapegoat and my younger brother is the golden child. He plays his part dutifully never questioning anything, never thinking for himself as an adult but participating in the dynamics every time he is home for a visit. It is truly heartbreaking and hurtful to be the child of a covert narcissist. And then to be made to feel like nothing by the flying monkeys around her is something I almost can’t bear. I am truly alone in the world due to this illness. This video was so helpful along with several others it is my favorite. It does help to know that I’m not alone and that many other people are experiencing this also. Thanks so much Dr. C!
After being made the family scapegoat, criticised, controlled and made to feel like nothing I did was ever good enough for 50 years and having being diagnosed with agoraphobia and severe anxiety I’ve at long last cut all my family out of my life. My advice is if you think you’re living within a toxic narcissistic family cut all ties as narcissistic people will never change and you’ll end up with health conditions such as mine.I wish I’d done it years ago.
‘Telling supersedes discussing’...that’s exactly what my sister did to me a month ago. She moved to a new house with her boyfriend and as their internet wasn’t set up and she needed to work from home she told me she would use the room where I normally work in my parents home. I live with my parents and have an office where my sister lived years ago. I am recovering from hand surgery and have a special orthopaedic chair for work and my sister wanted to relocate me to my bedroom with poor internet coverage so she could use her old room. All this was put in a text message, no phone call to discuss with me. No sisterly discussion or consideration for a compromise. I dug my heels in and refused. This caused huge tantrums, anger and tears from my sister. My elderly parents were accused of siding with me and we have not heard from sister since. My parents and I are completely saddened and shocked by my sister’s attitude. I used to be scared of my sister but now no longer. I have found my strength and self-respect. My father is a narcissistic too. I believe my mum and I are the gentle and authentic ones always getting manipulated by the other two.
Crazy, sounds like my family. You took your power back and so did I. I told my sister she is self centered 4 months ago, she told me never to call her number again. Her loss, my gain. I am putting my mental health first at 56 years old. Finally!!
I can't get away from my narcissistic family because I've become the care giver for our mother. I have developed serious health problems thatgo unacknowledged. I asked my mother today if she noticed anything different about me (meaning my health) & she answered indifferently 'Yes you haven't yelled at me as much.' (I NEVER yell at her!) Somehow I never quite get used to it.
Thank you for your emotionally brave sharing. You helped me feel no so alone as I caretake for my 95 year-old mother who can be terribly verbally abusive when her golden child son (my brother) convinces her I'm evil. I hope things are better for you now than when you wrote your comment.
Described how my family operates perfectly. I've been a victim of my narcissistic mother and my flying monkey father, who does what he's told, to my detriment for almost 50 years. I even moved overseas to get away from her, until my visa ran out and I had to return.
Conformity beats creativity - what an understatement. My family was defined by one emotion - rage - expressed in many ways but rage was always the weapon of choice
It takes such long to _truly_ accept this. I've known my mom is this for 3 years and my sister half a year. It's so hard. At least no contact has stopped the back stabbing.
While my dad was dying, my mom managed to triangulate and use my sister as a punishment tool. He had only a few vdays left to live, and I asked mom if she wanted to attend the funeral. A kind, honest question. She had hardly spoken to him in 22 years.. She was offended. "Of course I want to come" she said. And then: "Your sister wouldn't have asked me that question..." She was simply implying that my sister isn't as stupid as me.
It's true they will attempt to hinder any progress. When seeking help for the damage done to mental health by our families' malignant narc, I was abused for it, belittled, devalued etc. After realising I wasn't going to be berated out of action, the comment was "Then you MUST be mentally ill!" lol. They never stop trying to cripple you.
The narcissists in my family have no good words for me. They mock and demean me every chance they get through covert means. I will never be accepted by the family, there is no point in even trying with them. I am 68 years old, it is unlikely I will get through to them. If I try to communicate one more time I will only be hurt again. I do not feel hurt anymore but I choose to have friends who are loving, kind, joyful people who engage and share with me. After I realized what I was dealing with, that is angry people who think they are superior cannot love me, I gave up thinking anything will ever be different. Thank the Lord I feel free! We become those we hang around, I do not want to be caught up in their mean-spirited foolishness. I was also blessed when I knew God has given permission and even commands that we get away from these people in 2 Timothy 3:1-5.
I agree with your last statement in particular. Since "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5b), He gives us the freedom to reject those who are committed to staying in darkness. We're to walk in the Light! We don't have to feel guilty about turning away, especially after we tried and tried again, from people who hate truth and cling to darkness. We ARE blessed with freedom - "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery" (Galatians 5:1). Love that verse! I am beginning to experience this more and more as I continue as much as possible with "no contact." And I am SO grateful! So thankful that God loves me even though my extended family does not.
How can you get away when you don’t have enough money and God still won’t open a door or a way or insight as to how to get a job or a way to have money?
@@lw4294 One cannot always get away but we can learn the skills for dealing with difficult people. There are ways to deal with narcissists that lessen the impact of their nonsense.
1. Dominance supersedes love 2. Expectations supercedes acceptance 3. False self supercedes exploration of your real self 4. Telling supercedes discussing 5. Conformity supersedes creative exploration 6. Anger supercedes patient teaching 7. Shallowness supercedes deep connections You can become prone to unhealthy patterns. 1. Stop. Breathe deeply. Reflect. 2. Develop your own vision of who you are 3. Speak up, but dont make it your end game 4. Focus instead on your personal adjustments, as your end game 5. Manage your time with them judiciously Live your life unapologetically *my own opinion: - cut all ties and enjoy your life and be happy 😘
When there's no room at the table for me I create a wondrous table of my very own. Better to go after my personal best! We are all equal with individual qualities to be celebrated and that does include me.
You know it's bad once you start having that confidence in yourself, you start having doubts and constantly self reflect, because you feel like you're wrong, and must be low or apologetic in some way. You wince at any raise in tone of voice. You are very sensitive and are aware of the other peoples body language. Never the confidence to speak up.
My family is chaotic, at best. Narcissistic siblings, enabling parents and the like. When trying to have relevant discussion with any of them there will be plenty of denial, blame, rage, etc. It's so very difficult to both wanting to be loyal and to wanting to honor the self.
Its a very sad situation when you have a family like this.. its toxic and its best to stay away as much as you can.. life is better without them in it..
It has been a long and bumpy road to healthy adulthood, I must say. It's not like I read a good psychology book and cracked the riddle in two weeks. It took years to understand what happened in my family and what kind of work I had to within myself I've been to therapy groups, I've seen a therapist on my own, I've read loads of books, and now I've found this channel. I'm a proud work in progress 🙂
Agree with you and wanna add one thing too: To being healthy is not a concept that's like %100 crystal clear white or so. Thus, being on the way of healthy life is an enough aim since there are no people with %100 health. There are always ups and downs, wrong moves, state of minds, unintended but unethical behavior towards this or that person...
Pressured to conform or else face rejection. Having to resort to shallowness (and dishonesty) to protect the self. Become a keeper of personal secrets but, at the same time, not allowed to confront the family's disgraceful secrets because it would blow their cover. Bingo! That's my husband's experience - and all so normal to him and his siblings from birth onward that they still don't get it. I recognized how destructive it had always been and, because I didn't play along, I was regarded as "the problem." In fact, my Narc-in-laws backstabbed me to my husband's siblings exactly that way. So narc-driven families pass on their sickness from one generation to the next . . . and to the next after that.
This totally describes my family of origin. Thank you for helping me to know my value and to unlock my freedom and not repeat these dysfunctional patterns with my son. You’re doing great work Dr.C!
Having a gaslighter wife and a narcissist father that finally teamed up I just can recommend to leave that system and never look back. They will try to get into control of you even after you left.
Yeah the Lord have been advising me to pull away from certain family members including my mom. YES they DEFINITELY keep up a front. I know it's the reason why my mom don't get along with me. Because I became my own person. I got real sick a couple of months ago. So, she took off of work to supposedly help me out by staying with my son when I had to go in the hospital and what not. But all she do is help mess up, try to argue, and always want to prove how right she is about something. Narcissist are definitely childish, and they are very unemotionally available. And if you don't seek healing from what you have encountered. Every relationship you choose will be with abusive types of people as well. All you can do is pray for them and love on them from a distance. And move on with your life without feeling guilt, shame, or fear. These are generational curses that have been passed down from generation to generation. And God is breaking these curses in this season. God bless everyone. God loves you, and so do I.
It's been over a week since going no contact with The Queen Mother. I didn't realize how much brain space she took up in my thoughts! Extricating her control means "taking every thought captive to be obedient to Christ", my true King. Hes helping me through your videos and the comments. Thank you so much!
This is helping me so much , I am learning a lot about narcissistic behaviour in my childhood and my reaction to that situation was not good , I was like quiet and sad at home . I know now how to stay me and not let me pull down to a narcissistic mother . I want to be me ! Find myself back. I have my own place now , but always thinking about my mother, I cant let go .
You are exactly right, superficiality & externals predominate in a narcissistic family. Setting boundaries with family members went to ** when my ex triangulated. I am like the black sheep, scape goat, non-conformist. My dad and I are the empaths in the family. I am having to navigate the family system again, post-marriage.
This is so my dad of origin. The bottom line is that he doesn't want anyone to look better then he is. I have had to break away completely from my family of origin, all 8 of them.
Thank you for the good advice re the narcissist. I have practiced Grey Rock, it works. I now understand it’s not me, it’s their problem. I have little to nothing to do with them (the narc) and I feel empowered. I live independently and I feel good about myself. I went out and bought myself new clothes and had my hair restyled. Your sound advice has helped me recover from the narcissistic abuse. I feel much improved as an individual. Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. C. Now I understand why I was punished for having a deep connection with my aging father at the end of his life. I never considered that in narcissistic family systems deep connections are discouraged.
Although a narcissistic family won’t agree, sometimes, the best way to honor them, is to leave entirely. It can be a conclusion that takes time to come to. But, once you have, you May look back and find that there was no other healthy way. This can be so, whether you’re compliant or combative. As was insinuated to me, it was up to me to “keep the peace”, while my younger sister was to be allowed to degrade into an ogre. Since I knew that would have a very finite shelf life, where I’m concerned, it was one of the many reasons I left.
@@noneyourbusiness7311 I only said honor because I think Dr. Carter mentioned it in the video, as per how narcissistic parents and other family members likely perceive themselves, in comparison to those who they see as beneath and in servitude of them. I used to think I should honor my mother, when she hadn’t shown who she truly was. But, once she did, heh. Honor went flying out the friggin’ window, with the typical cartoon sound, to accompany it. I didn’t mind honoring my mother. But, perhaps to her surprise, for me, that NEVER meant that my life was all about improving and extending hers. That was a miscalculation, on her part.
Dr C every which way I turn in my circle of family/friends they are all narcissists. What to do? How wonderful it would be to just have a pleasant day with a non narcissist.
Have you considered moving to another state or country? Don't keep yourself imprisoned among abusers any longer. It would do you a ton of good to see what life is like without the strings of narcissists. And may I advise you to get a new phone number and to fake internet problems? Once there, you do NOT want all to intrude in your new-found freedom. They will play the guilt-card and you may fully ignore that! And watch out for too nice people, who are just narcissists charming you into their lives. Get information and if needed therapy to sort things out, so you don't surround yourself with the poison you know, all over again.
16 yrs of NO Contact for me was independence and taking my life back. While all those yrs my Narcissistic oldest sister Sophia the Queen Bee groomed all the other 5 sisters and 4 brothers including my Mama to become the image like her they are all Narcissist's. We never again are able to connect or speak to each other keeping up appearances is the norm their fake image is more important than a reality of a TOXIC family and I chose to Never be like them, Never, ever, ever be like them! They hate me because I will not be controlled or engage in their destructive patterns and poisoning Toxic DRAMA!
I survived but with permanent scars. I have totally disowned them all and my life is much happier now!
Same here
Good for you!!! I'm still trapped with one that has traits but cut off the main evil one. Yes we have permanent scars! I've had a lifetime of Narc abuse from family, husband, and "friends". Hugs!
Your scars don't have to be permanent. I released everything over to God. You can also look into counseling/therapy.
SAME...
Yep
Dominance supercedes love. There's no love in a narcissistic family. No contact was my only option to save my mental health.
Good for you!! Some have to I choose not to for my own reasons. Yes there's no love because evil isn't capable of love. Once you understand that 💯 you can deal. And living 1000 miles away helps!!
Amen 😇
I so agree with you. May you be peaceful and happy now.
True.. Feel that
Yep
Setting boundaries in my family was a death sentence. No contact became the only way to survive.. I did all I could to show them loving kindness, but they ate me alive for it. I almost died. My heart goes out to all of us who survived this type of abuse. I'm still working on thriving instead of just surviving. Thank you Dr. Carter, you are saving lives.
No contact is a boundary. Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism I believe in the end it is the only workable boundary
So relatable
Me too 41 years old and it's hard
I'm very sorry 😞 you have been through hell. But you survived it.
Survive by LEAVING 😊
Everyone: "I can't wait for my family reunion."
Children of Narcissists: "I can't wait to come up with an excuse not to go to my family reunion."
I went out and got high instead.
Lol We have never had a family “Re-Union.” We were never United in the first place. Like scattered pearls when the string breaks. However. My kids & their families, my husband & I have happy family gatherings every month!
I wouldn’t even make an excuse. I just wouldn’t go period
@@SweetGothic16 I have distant family members that I like but they don't understand my intermediate family's narcissist dynamic. I'm not going to explain to them that my N mother has been tricking them all their lives, which is why I don't want to be there with her. It's much easier on all of us if I just claim my car broke down. 😆
YES
If you piss a Narcissist off, you’re doing something right…….Keep it up, because you deserve better!
Lol! Good reminder 👏👏 My inlaws hate me but treat my husband's sister and brother in-law really well and it always upset me.
I unknowingly was leaving a trail of pissed off narcissists just by being myself.
@@timmywitty1432 - Being Yourself is the most important part of life. If others expect something else, they don’t deserve you!
@@joannasaadati8810 - If they don’t enjoy your company it’s their loss. Just focus on making the best version of yourself by using that anger as fuel for your future success’s. People change for 2 reasons…….LOVE or HATE.
@@Mmyers1177 agreed!
Narcs hate boundaries and hate "no".
Growing up in such families is so miserable! We face all kinds of mental issues early on. I've always felt "robbed" and deprived of my future chances. Possibly many of us never reach our true potential in life. I sometimes wonder if the so-called "normal" family exists at all? ☹
Also facts😂
Narc families take strength, and in my humble note-pusher opinion, the world is like a narc family. Despite the pain and uncertainty, we will be equipped with the strength to fix these things for the next generations ❤️ I wonder the same thing, but those normal families will be yours and mine, and all the family lines from those engaging with these communities:) If it’s not here, it’ll start here 🥺
Some of us didn't get help early on and thus have to deal with these more severe mental issues later on like me!!
Absolutely robbed !! Cheated , & Used for supply !!! What a horrible way to treat one's children . The damage is awful when they don't get help to get out .
My feelings too, I guess make your family the normal, in your home with your kids… let that be the normal the happy x
I feel the same way. I feel like I wasted my life with these toxic people.
"I don't owe you an explanation on anything and I don't have to filter my decisions through YOU" That shuts em up real fast. Thanks Dr. Carter
That's the one that really hit home for me too. I have a narc sister who, after multiple failed marriages and moving every year, tells me I don't use what I learned in college. Really? I'm a first generation college student who uses what I learn each and every day, single and responsible, taking care of our 95 yo dad. She is absent. Amazing how some people think their opinions of us matter!
OMG- all the kids of narcissists are SO EXCITED for this one!!! Esp because that usually means some of your siblings turn out narcissistic, aunts, uncles- it's like a disease that spreads and infects everyone!
it is important to remember that permeates everything, includes you. Be aware of that. Be aware of your own tendencies.
@@ebbyc1817 it doesn’t have to permeate you, if you stay strong, conscious, and have good boundaries. 💜 good luck!
@@kristenstewart1250 fundamental to narcissism is the aversion to seeing weakness in oneself
good luck
@@ebbyc1817 exactly! I hope you are working on this! Good luck and be blessed! 🙏🏻
@@kristenstewart1250 ok
I was from a narcissistic family but did not know what narcissism was at the time back in my late thirties (I am 60 now) Well, one Thanksgiving they just completely flipped my switch and I thought I just can't take these people anymore and right before desert I just walked out, got in my car and drove away. I have not had no contact with them since. I understand that it's not for everyone but I have never regretted my decision and have lived a very good life without them.
My family has disintigrated, and I'm totally fine with that.
I don't speak to my sibling,
and my parents are divorced. They don't speak either.
Sometimes I just sigh with relief. Finally, It's all over.
No drama, no headache, no feuds, no anxiety.
@@zoundstreetop That's what the narcs do - they break their own families. They make insane, impossible demands. And their bad behaviour is inherited.
In my family, we have fought so many times (and I'm certainly not innocent!) that I'm burnt out. There are no emotions left.
I'm totally empty.
If you still have the capacity to mourn and regret, you are not totally worn out. That's something to value.
I'm passed that stage.
@@kimlarsson7259 So sorry to hear that, Kim! Hope you will recover and be able to become part of the solution in this world, instead of part of the problem. People, who have hit rock bottom, might have great insight to share, later on in life.
@@gardenjoy5223 I'm ok these days... The biggest mistakes and troubles are behind me.
As for my family, it is what it is. It's not like I have to dig for answers anymore. It just collapsed. It was obviously dysfunctional.
My mothers egocentricity has always been a huge problem. She has worn me out, totally.
That there are vital parts missing in her head, that I knew. But listening to Dr C, I understand things better - again. She's a narc on the middle of the scale. Simple as that.
Yeah, I hope I can be a part of the solution 🌟 I have not inherited moms pathology. That's something. I am not a drunken egomaniac.
Thanx for support/take care
The only way to survive and thrive from a narcissistic family is to love yourself enough to permanently cut off all contact.
Someone mentioned infantilization, and I can totally relate to that.
Becoming an adult was totally weird, cause my parents (especially mom) didn't want me to grow up, but at the same time, I wasn't taken care of on a deeper level.
I was treated like a kid, but in reality, noone really cared.
Very confusing.
Whenever I tried to open up, I was misunderstood or simply ignored. My parents always had something going on that was more important than my feelings.
I can fully understand why narcissistic parents want their kids to be kids forever...
That's because THEY NEVER GROW UP!! at best they are in their terrible 2's forever!!!
@@noneyourbusiness7311 Yup, they don't age on the inside.
I think all narcs want their children to stop aging.
And when you're are 50, you are still not treated like an adult.
It's your own job to break free.
@@kimlarsson7259 absolutely and one reason they dispise you even more. How dare you actually become a mature adult and leave them in your dust! They raise (you know what I mean) you to "take care of them" and force you to mature way before you should but the end result is not what they want. They aren't capable of thinking it through. So once again they LOSE!! And they are sore losers so best to stay away!!! It helps living 1000 miles away!! My WIN!!
@@noneyourbusiness7311 Yeah, that's another problem - they force you into adulthood, but stop you from maturing.
It's maddening.
I had that contractionary childhood. I took an emotional responsibilty I never got credit for, but I remained childish far to long..
Very confusing.
It's all part of a double reality. If you grow in a narcissistic environment, you live with two narratives and two infantile parents, who don't know what they are doing.
They pull you left and right at the same time.
Since they don't even know themselves, they can't give you a clear direction.
And when you DO mature, they get envious of your looks, your dates, your sexual encounters, your vitality etc.
And if you regress, you are accused of being immature.
Jesus Christ on a motorbike...
Agree! I’m almost 50 and I feel like I have never been taught how to properly “adult”. It’s like it gives my mother a feeling of superiority to watch me struggle, yet she offers no help and just keeps kicking me when I’m down. Even though I’ve lived with this all my life, I still feel completely dumbfounded and bewildered at her cruelty.
Dr. Carter’s dog is in his place of peace on that couch 😍
Loved the "Gus thinks this is a good idea."
Ha ha it’s nap time !!
What would we do without our sweet dogs? My dog is laying near me and my 21 year old cat is sleeping on top of the couch back that I'm on - You can tell that Dr. Carter is as mellow, loving and wise off air too, the way his dog so comfortably and peacefully lays near him.
Gus! I’m always looking for Gus! I’ve listened to so many of these videos now, my Golden Retriever, Gracie, recognizes Dr C’s voice and comes and lays at my feet. I’m sure she thinks, there’s our friend again saying wise and encouraging words.
Gus finds narcissists boring.
As I read these comments, I realize I’m not alone. Imparting life skills to a child is perhaps the most important role of the parents. I have lived most of my life under the delusion that I failed my parents when in fact, they are the ones who failed me.
So true what you say here, and I'm glad the community on our channel has helped. Stay with us! Dr. C
Yes. I wish I could be so succinct. Lol. That’s the real gist of it tho.
Perfectly stated. They even had the nerve to say that I ruined their life. Quite the opposite!! They’re just like their father the devil. They have it all in reverse.
I am glad I am not alone, when I was growing up I was disalusioned into thinking my family was the norm. They were not then, but maybe they are now that there are more families with abusive situations. Which is sad that more families are not as happy or safe as they could be. I realized that the one thing that I was missing that shows up in my adult life is emotional support. My mom and dad can't give me that. I tried looking for it from other people like relationships from men. I found what I was looking for in myself instead.
Most interesting. When my high school friends were starting to work at FF restaurants and other kinds of work, my mother encouraged me to stay home. My dad never had much clout because, as a serial adulterer, he cowered before my mother. Narc families nurture entitlement in their children.
But looking back now, I see that my screwed up, growth retarded childhood and adulthood. were the circumstances that allowed me to get saved.
Even after I was saved, my behavior remained aberrant for decades. I have only recently managed to escape from the Island of Memyselfandi.
Narcassistic families are hell. 5 years now contact. Anyone struggling with this, please know, it does get better, it does get easier and happiness is just around the corner for you.
3 years for me, it's wonderful. But the flying monkeys are still around 😕
💯❤️‼️🙏🏽
Incredibly accurate description of a narcissistic, toxic, codependent family dynamic.
It’s like being in a cult. Toeing the line is the only option. So sad, because eventually we have to choose. I chose to go against their doctrine and it ended in complete alienation from all my family. But I’m getting better and am glad I’m out of it. Thank you again for such a wise video. Sending good vibes and strength to anyone else in this terrible situation.
I agree. Hope U are still making positive progress.
@@ConniesCountryLivin I am getting there, slowly but surely. Hope you are too!!
Yes absolutely- I am getting there just the same...slowly but surely 💜.
💯💯💯
By merely setting boundaries & not allowing the abuse, my narc mother & two narc brothers cut me out of her trust & will. If my father was alive he’d be livid. She made me the “black sheep” of the family since my earliest memory
Same Karen Lynch.They disowned me and that left me pitifully and woefully unprepared. But God has blessed us and restored many things.
Same here--my mother plans to leave me half of what she leaves my siblings--they are on meth, alcoholic and mistreated their kids. I'm the only "normal" one in the family, and was my father's favorite kid, which drove her nuts. They all use her and are waiting for her to die--none of them help her when she's sick or needs to go the store--she can't drive anymore. It's all so sick. I live 2000 miles away. I try not to think about it.
That’s horrible. I’m so sorry.
You lucked out Black Sheep 🐑....I got the Scapegoat roll 😱😱😳
That's just evil!
The worst thing is where another family member doesn’t see through them and acts as their Go-To flying monkey.
that was me to my younger sister before i woke up and rebelled too. felt terrible to realize how brainwashed i was.
I cut myself out of the abuse when it started to hurt my children. I never thought that my family would sink that low. When I finally started standing up to my mom & sister, my mother told me that I needed therapy because I was full of anger. The therapist agreed that I was doing the right thing. The more I showed who I was and what I wasn’t going to tolerate the more mean and nasty they both became. I had no choice but to cut off my relationship completely. I didn’t want my children to be around that kind of behaviour. I didn’t want them to think that it’s okay to treat other people so horribly. I miss my dad, but he chose to support my mom; even though he could see the horrible behaviour!
Jordan Peterson said, "If someone is not listening to you, stop talking to them."
well SOMETIMES you cant just go away and ignore a problem YOU KNOW?
My mom TRIED to stop the cycles of narcissistic abuse that she grew up with. But it doesn't stop with one or even two or three generations. She worked so hard to stop it, for my brother and me. There was so much of it around us at all times, it was constant. I didn't even see it until I was an adult. My mom started having better boundaries, when she started going through narcissistic abuse therapy, and I learned a lot through that process. But now that I am a mom and having to deal with the family unit on my own, as a mom, I am having to go no-contact with many many people and put up my own firm boundaries. These videos are extremely helpful.
Yes, I too have spent years dealing with grief. For the loss of people still alive. I believe that one of the most difficult things to do is to accept that your own narcissistic mother really, genuinely doesn't love you. Or even care for you. And not to take it personally. Now that's a challenge! But when you understand that they are not even capable of love, it helps a lot. I have been no contact for 20 years. It was the only way I could have a life. That, and 30 years of therapy! I have never regretted it, and even when it gets tricky at the end of her life, I have already grieved.
❤
I'm still working through healing from narcissistic parents.
My mum is the last one .. dad died 10 years ago.. narc in-laws died .. one left then my mind and heart will be free totally free. Mum took the poison 💉 so it shouldn't be much longer. Sad to feel that way but it's true. There is healing when they die!
I'm still wounded even as they die off. I understand intellectually there would never be resolution, but emotionally the pain still resides.
@@joywebster2678 only when you relive it. Start training your mind not to think about them or what they did to you if it's that upsetting. When you are thinking of them or a event that's upsetting force yourself to think about something else. Start singing and dancing if possible. Pray. Ask God to help you it really is easier once you really don't care anymore and realize its their loss to have missed out on "kind loving YOU" .. Best wishes to your best life ❤
@@joywebster2678 it does take time. An average of 3 years. Sometimes more but the goal is to feel a little more free every day. Talk to yourself..your brain hears and will react to your WORDS!!
IM WORTHY OF LOVE
I DIDNT DESERVE WHAT HAPPENED TO ME
THEY WILL ANSWER TO GOD FOR WHAT THEY DID
I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM IT MUST BE HARD TO HAVE THEIR THOUGHTS
THEIR EVIL DEEDS AND WORDS ARE NOT MY FAULT
I AM NOT A VICTIM BUT SURVIVOR!!
I WILL THRIVE AND FEEL ALIVE
MY HEART IS FULL OF LOVE
THEY HURT ME BUT THEY DIDN'T BREAK ME BECAUSE I AM STRONGER THAN THEM!!
you get the point
@@noneyourbusiness7311 You don't need them to die to be totally free. I doubt, that if you need them to die, you will experience any freedom, once the last one does. Your heart seems to be poisoned and I do NOT blame you for that. By the way: A vaccine is not a poison. You are much more in this still, then you want to admit to yourself. I recommend you get some real counseling to help you find the freedom, you so long for. Indeed, you are worthy of love and indeed, you did NOT deserve what happened to you. Nor do you deserve it eating you alive still. The idea is to work through the abuse, not around it.
This topic alone show be turned into a series, hopefully he considers it🙏🏻
I look forward to it.
A SERIES ⚘👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I have narcissistic inlaws 😩 Would love a video on that!
A series sounds great , after reading how many people have had to leave their families behind just to Survive . I knew that I wasn't the only one ....but WOW ....😱👀👀👀👀 look how many their Are !!
Yes! My narcissistic sibling has turned the family upside down.
I agree!
I love your videos, Dr. Carter, but this is one I think I needed most. Being the only member of my family to see it for what it is, can make me question if I'm the problem. You just described my family to a tee and validated my need to keep my distance. Thank you.
Me too.
@ Erin Lee Me three! I've spent the better part of my 60 years thinking and sometimes being told I was the problem or to "not make waves' or asked, "Who do YOU think YOU are?" Thankfully, I'm here and now well aware of the fact that I'm not the problem. And neither are you, btw. You know what? We got this, and we got character too. I'm planning on cutting off all ties and going incommunicado. I hear it's nice this time of year! 😆
Leave.
Don’t look back.
Edit:
My turn to give them the silent treatment. But my 67-year-old sister died last fall unexpectedly. I did not respond. She was in her third year of giving me the silent treatment because she was a golden child and she sided with the narcissistic parents. They gossip about me, for the last time.
I did nothing to her. We exchanged Christmas cards, birthday cards, called each other. I sent her books. One day about four years ago she didn’t take my call or return the call. And the birthday cards stopped the Christmas cards stopped. What did the narcissistic parents tell her about me?
Doesn’t matter because they gossiped about me. I did nothing to her. But that’s what narcissistic immature parents do. They are so insecure they draw their children to them and turn their children against each other.
My twin sister did the same thing. But I always bring to the attention that she raised her two boys the same way as my parents raised me and my bullying brother along with my two flying monkey gossiping sisters. My twin sisters had one boy shoot himself at age 14 and older narcissistic golden boy went on a crack cocaine spree for 12 years and destroyed a bunch of people lives.
Yet they’re gossiping about me.
So I disown all of them.
Going on five years. I am at peace.
Amazing how that works.
Oh, I want a front row seat for this show!
I got off of Facebook. So there's a lot of family drama that I hear about but I'm not involved in. And nobody involves me in it.
You talked about my whole childhood 😢 I was just 20 when my first STOP came just because I coudn‘t handle it no more. I moved out. But it didn‘t ‘t stop. I was 22 when I totally broke up with them. 🛑 I‘m 40 now and never met them again. I‘m so so proud of my young self for having the strength to make that cut.
I broke free from my narcissistic mother and flying monkey siblings. I have grown children, grandchildren, and friends. But, I have a lonely emptiness too.
I know how you feel. I had to grieve the relationships that I WISHED we had had, or that we COULD have, but will never have. Be gentle with yourself.
@@StillAwakeAwareDiscerning That’s exactly how I feel.
Story of my life but I'd rather be at peace and lonely rather than lose my mind...
@@Denise00700 It is very challenging. Who knew that the world was so f--ked up? No one knew about narcissists and their robotic like evil doings. But now we know. Now we can accept what is so overwhelming to know. That our family, our parents, were disordered and as a result, we were abused. My thinking is...I still have life to live. I am sorry it will be without them, but that was their choice. I am going to keep moving forward and keep creating a life that I want. Focus on yourself and what you want. Time to get them out of your head. One day at a time. : )
I wish I had heard this as a teenager. Now I'm almost 60, as geographicly far away from my brother as possible - everyone else is dead - and on a journey of finally understanding what was going on in my home. Alice Miller's books helped a lot, but your videos are like the handle on the door and the cherry on the cake. Thank you so much ♥️
I’ve been waiting for this one, dominance superseding love is a damn understatement lolol😂
I know! There's no love in a narcissistic family. Just control.
I can't wait to watch. I'm feeling this exactly. I am my narcissistic parents full time caretaker and I'm becoming so depressed and not well. I thought I could handle it, but it's killing me.
That is dreadful. I have other siblings and thankfully I don't have to see my mother's face except on birthdays or Christmas. Would love to pass on her funeral. They're shocked when they see that empaths also have a nasty side if pushed too far albeit it takes a lot.
I think we all think we can handle it -- and it's certainly what the REST of the world tells us, in part so THEY don't have to deal with it -- but then there are the unpredictable surprises 🤯
That’s awful, I really feel for you. Try to get even fives minutes of you time. I’m hoping this vid helps me understand how to deal with mine! Best wishes.
Being a caretaker is in my experience, a health hazard. You may have already found the helpful books and support groups. Those save you.
Maybe you'll find different care for them. Why sacrifice yourself?
Team Healthy: Dignity, Respect & Civility🙏
That's who we are!!
Finally.....Oh Please Tell Me Do 🙄......The Scapegoat
Thank you, Dr. C!!! I’ve suffered for most of my life and was Scapegoated early on in my childhood. It drove me to attempt suicide many times as a teenager. I still grieve about my childhood all the time. You’re a gem and I’m glad you’re here to guide us. 🙏
You know, each time you read your own UA-cam name, you are keeping yourself in a certain mindset. Why don't you change it into 'Overcoming Millennial'? You've dealt with severe emotional abuse and still live to tell it. Your grief is real and called for. I do hope, that you will be able to see the gem in yourself. You've endured tremendous pressure and still are able to shine! Satan tried to crush you, but God made you into a diamond. Once the heavy part of the grief is over, you will be able to reach out to become your best self. Give yourself time and pursue righteousness and kindness. You will be able to shine a strong light into a dark world. May God bless you and make you a blessing.
You will get through this and have the beautiful life you were always meant to have surrounded by people who truly love you for who you really are ❤
Hope you are feeling better today and going forward!
The other night I dreamed I was at a family gathering. I had to get up and take Rescue Remedy to calm myself. I cut off all contact with all of my family in 2009 but one narc sister still won’t leave me in peace. I’m planning on moving and “disappearing “ to get these people out of my life.
My narcassitic family comprised 2 narcassistic parents and me. It was pure hell.
One dominant narcissist is bad enough. Having two dominant ones who are best buds is much worse. They both target me. All the rest of the siblings (I have six in all) are enablers and they scapegoat me. Family was never safe for me, even when growing up. No contact x 4 years and wished I had done it sooner.
My mom ignores me and uses the silent treatment. My sister and brother have followed suit. It’s a long story but its completely sad.
See their absence as THE GREATEST BLESSING OF YOUR LIFE! Bury them (alive) in peace. In your heart, forgive them their diabolical ways, and wish OURSELF PEACE.
Go out and make new friends and community. One day, you rise, thrive and shine without them, and they will not even be a memory. The joy of your life will be real.
I am so grateful to be watching one of your videos, now that I’ve escaped my narc family. No more conditioning, financial abuse, panic attacks....I feel empowered and safe in my own home. Your videos have been a major help to me. I never imagined I’d make it to the other side.
God bless and protect you.
Good for you, Beauty!
Wow! That's inspiring. Thank you for sharing!
You got this and bless you! What an inspiration for the rest of us.
Run real fast, and never look back.
love how your little dog is never far away from you. so cute. ☺️🐶
My mother literally poisoned all of my relationships within the family. My brother's kids have fully formed opinions of me; yet have spent exactly no time with me. Thanks for another superb video. This one was extra-resonant.
Accept that you have lost your family. They aren't going to change. They will still beat you down. You have to survive. If they live with you it won't be easy but you can do it. Continue to be your own true self.
I'm no contact with my mom for several months now and even though I miss her, my mental health can't sustain the relationship
@Kath Amen. I was asking for something my mom could never provide. It's sad but true,so I stopped asking. Bless you on your journey 💖
Can you make this an hour long? So much ground to cover.
@@radattk3145 😩😂 This is so funny, true, and sad at the same time.
Oh I so agree. There’s a lot to cover
@@yasiasorbo9201 I've listened to it twice and will again. It's like he was talking to me about my family. Wow.
Yup .. my mother .. my way or the highway.. multiple ugly divorces.. her mother, my grandmother was the enabler. Lots of anger, threatened by nonconformity.. it was the whole family really.
Born in an Indian family I’m expected to treat parents with respect always and make them proud no matter what. Even at 30 the narc traits, gaslighting threw me off a million times. I realized that they are asking for third degree treatment. It took me a while to realize i can’t talk any sense or call them out ever on anything or even have a normal deep conversation on anything. It’s not a two way street but i can make my half of the street one way. I still want to believe they were deeply hurt as the root cause.
Les, are you going to talk about my mother again? 🙃
Yep! Great to hear from you, Cynthia!!! Les
My narcissist mom has got cancer and may die soon. My narcissist brother is not only the worst, most malicious narcissist in the family, he’s also gone completely insane and is very dangerous. My sister is not a full blown narcissist but she is not far from it. She wants nothing to do with any of us and I haven’t seen her in over 10 years. My dad is normal but he’s 90 years old and demented and I don’t know how much longer he’ll live. I’m the youngest one in the family and I’ve struggled with severe anxiety all my life. But I have survived 💪🏻 still could need some therapy though.. can’t wait to see this video
Your sister could have cptsd, which is sometimes confused with narcissism (since that’s who she was raised by). She was smart to go No Contact.
@@wheelerpat8 she is not smart. She’s dumb. And she looks down on me/us. That’s how she’s handled it all - By thinking she’s better than us. That’s narcissistic. She doesn’t even realize it. She’s become like the one she hates the most. Our mom. I’m not a narcissist but she hates me too. I don’t know why, I always adored her and looked up to her, only to grow up and realize that she hates me and is jealous of me. I live in the same city as her. She doesn’t want to meet me. She was being condescending the last time I spoke to her. I have never done anything to her. She’s just mean, and not very smart. She hasn’t even figured out our mom is a narcissist yet, and that’s why she is how she is. If she knew, maybe she wouldn’t be so bitter.. narcs do what narcs do.. it’s nothing personal
Yep.
I grew up in that same type of family. Father was present but the worst narc of the bunch. His greatest joy was to watch his children’s reaction to his vehement belittling.
My brother is basically the only birth family I have left and he deeply hates me. I have come to realize that all these years I actually loved the person I hoped he could be.
I think that what he hates most about me is the fact that I survived the trauma of all that narcissistic abuse and learned to be a better human being. Even as a child, I was determined that I would never treat my children the way I saw my siblings being treated. However, my desire to love and to see the best in others left me wide open to his narc abuse.
Since other family members have died, he is now all alone. But, he won’t stay alone for long. He will find a new victim. God help them.
Katarina Sedeniussen i hear you. My sister is/was the same. Many years passed before we reunited. And that’s how I came to the conclusion that I did. I stand by my comment. I hope you both can come together someday and find healing and family.
♥️🕊
Always remember you have the right to walk away and claim your own independence and happiness away from this people. Blood doesn't make family. I went no contact with my family
I've been stuck with my narcissistic family since March 2020 when the pandemic started. It's been a tough year and a half, the fatigue is setting in, and I'm desperate to get a breather. My only hope is to try and get approved for a bank loan sometime next year to help me in getting my own little apartment / condo. This place is driving me nuts, but videos like these give me hope.
I’m in the exact same situation! I cannot take the constant yelling and bickering anymore, and they wonder why I “have such an attitude”! Once I leave, I doubt I’ll ever come back even to visit. I hope you got out and are happy now. I’m hopefully close to that - my bf and I are looking into moving in together, so that will help with the costs!
"dominance superceding love."
This singular statement says it all. This is the briefest most understandable definition of narcissism I have heard, ever! It's so helpful because as soon as the power struggle starts then you know you're getting into dangerous territory either with your own narcissism or someone else's.
Thankyou Dr. Carter
Thanks, Michele. If you haven't seen the video, A New Way Of Defining Narcissism, please do. Based on your comment, it would resonate, and it's one of my favorites. Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissismMuch obliged,Dr. Character Builder,and thank you for the suggestion. Will go to now.
This video speaks straight to my soul because I have a very narcissistic family especially in my father's side. Most of them have such self-centered energy to the point that they look down on family members who have less than them. I'm planning to break off from them to have my own sense of peaceful identity.
One phrase someone said once in a support group that I’ve never forgotten. “Putting the crazy back where it belongs.” Lol.
What I have found is that once you go with no contact with the narcissist, you may lose other family members, too. I wasn't really expecting that, but so be it. Once you see it, there is no going back.
It’s taken me most of my life to makes sense of family. Finally I know why, growing up, I was always somewhere other than home.
I am 67 and it has taken me decades to figure out my family of origin and the dynamics that were at play. I pulled back and gray rocked my parents and was able to get through raising my children as a single parent that way. (I never estranged my parents from their grand children which I am now experiencing, though there certainly would have been just cause.)
I was the scapegoat and my younger brother is the golden child. He plays his part dutifully never questioning anything, never thinking for himself as an adult but participating in the dynamics every time he is home for a visit. It is truly heartbreaking and hurtful to be the child of a covert narcissist. And then to be made to feel like nothing by the flying monkeys around her is something I almost can’t bear. I am truly alone in the world due to this illness. This video was so helpful along with several others it is my favorite. It does help to know that I’m not alone and that many other people are experiencing this also. Thanks so much Dr. C!
After being made the family scapegoat, criticised, controlled and made to feel like nothing I did was ever good enough for 50 years and having being diagnosed with agoraphobia and severe anxiety I’ve at long last cut all my family out of my life. My advice is if you think you’re living within a toxic narcissistic family cut all ties as narcissistic people will never change and you’ll end up with health conditions such as mine.I wish I’d done it years ago.
‘Telling supersedes discussing’...that’s exactly what my sister did to me a month ago. She moved to a new house with her boyfriend and as their internet wasn’t set up and she needed to work from home she told me she would use the room where I normally work in my parents home. I live with my parents and have an office where my sister lived years ago. I am recovering from hand surgery and have a special orthopaedic chair for work and my sister wanted to relocate me to my bedroom with poor internet coverage so she could use her old room. All this was put in a text message, no phone call to discuss with me. No sisterly discussion or consideration for a compromise. I dug my heels in and refused. This caused huge tantrums, anger and tears from my sister. My elderly parents were accused of siding with me and we have not heard from sister since. My parents and I are completely saddened and shocked by my sister’s attitude. I used to be scared of my sister but now no longer. I have found my strength and self-respect. My father is a narcissistic too. I believe my mum and I are the gentle and authentic ones always getting manipulated by the other two.
Crazy, sounds like my family. You took your power back and so did I. I told my sister she is self centered 4 months ago, she told me never to call her number again. Her loss, my gain. I am putting my mental health first at 56 years old. Finally!!
I can't get away from my narcissistic family because I've become the care giver for our mother. I have developed serious health problems thatgo unacknowledged. I asked my mother today if she noticed anything different about me (meaning my health) & she answered indifferently 'Yes you haven't yelled at me as much.' (I NEVER yell at her!) Somehow I never quite get used to it.
Thank you for your emotionally brave sharing. You helped me feel no so alone as I caretake for my 95 year-old mother who can be terribly verbally abusive when her golden child son (my brother) convinces her I'm evil. I hope things are better for you now than when you wrote your comment.
Described how my family operates perfectly. I've been a victim of my narcissistic mother and my flying monkey father, who does what he's told, to my detriment for almost 50 years. I even moved overseas to get away from her, until my visa ran out and I had to return.
Conformity beats creativity - what an understatement. My family was defined by one emotion - rage - expressed in many ways but rage was always the weapon of choice
We are so blessed to have you!
It takes such long to _truly_ accept this. I've known my mom is this for 3 years and my sister half a year. It's so hard. At least no contact has stopped the back stabbing.
No contact is a case of addition by subtraction. Dr. C
While my dad was dying, my mom managed to triangulate and use my sister as a punishment tool.
He had only a few vdays left to live, and I asked mom if she wanted to attend the funeral. A kind, honest question.
She had hardly spoken to him in 22 years..
She was offended. "Of course I want to come" she said.
And then: "Your sister wouldn't have asked me that question..."
She was simply implying that my sister isn't as stupid as me.
It's true they will attempt to hinder any progress. When seeking help for the damage done to mental health by our families' malignant narc, I was abused for it, belittled, devalued etc. After realising I wasn't going to be berated out of action, the comment was "Then you MUST be mentally ill!" lol. They never stop trying to cripple you.
Have this in my Family amongst my Sisters, as my Father has passed! My eldest sister runs the show and the other Sisters are her flying monkeys!
The narcissists in my family have no good words for me. They mock and demean me every chance they get through covert means. I will never be accepted by the family, there is no point in even trying with them. I am 68 years old, it is unlikely I will get through to them. If I try to communicate one more time I will only be hurt again. I do not feel hurt anymore but I choose to have friends who are loving, kind, joyful people who engage and share with me. After I realized what I was dealing with, that is angry people who think they are superior cannot love me, I gave up thinking anything will ever be different. Thank the Lord I feel free! We become those we hang around, I do not want to be caught up in their mean-spirited foolishness. I was also blessed when I knew God has given permission and even commands that we get away from these people in 2 Timothy 3:1-5.
I agree with your last statement in particular. Since "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5b), He gives us the freedom to reject those who are committed to staying in darkness. We're to walk in the Light! We don't have to feel guilty about turning away, especially after we tried and tried again, from people who hate truth and cling to darkness.
We ARE blessed with freedom - "It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery" (Galatians 5:1). Love that verse!
I am beginning to experience this more and more as I continue as much as possible with "no contact." And I am SO grateful! So thankful that God loves me even though my extended family does not.
@@susansheldon2707 amen, amen!!!!
Amen sister 🙏 very well said
How can you get away when you don’t have enough money and God still won’t open a door or a way or insight as to how to get a job or a way to have money?
@@lw4294 One cannot always get away but we can learn the skills for dealing with difficult people. There are ways to deal with narcissists that lessen the impact of their nonsense.
1. Dominance supersedes love
2. Expectations supercedes acceptance
3. False self supercedes exploration of your real self
4. Telling supercedes discussing
5. Conformity supersedes creative exploration
6. Anger supercedes patient teaching
7. Shallowness supercedes deep connections
You can become prone to unhealthy patterns.
1. Stop. Breathe deeply. Reflect.
2. Develop your own vision of who you are
3. Speak up, but dont make it your end game
4. Focus instead on your personal adjustments, as your end game
5. Manage your time with them judiciously
Live your life unapologetically
*my own opinion:
- cut all ties and enjoy your life and be happy 😘
When there's no room at the table for me I create a wondrous table of my very own. Better to go after my personal best! We are all equal with individual qualities to be celebrated and that does include me.
How? Leave, and do lots of work on yourself. (Did I say that or think that?)
Dominance supersedes love. The narc is in charge and they don’t want anyone to forget it.
This is quite the birthday present! Thank you, Dr Carter 🙏🏻
Happy birthday? Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism Thank you, Dr C. When this video goes live I’ll be celebrating another trip around the sun! 🌞
You know it's bad once you start having that confidence in yourself, you start having doubts and constantly self reflect, because you feel like you're wrong, and must be low or apologetic in some way. You wince at any raise in tone of voice.
You are very sensitive and are aware of the other peoples body language.
Never the confidence to speak up.
My family is chaotic, at best. Narcissistic siblings, enabling parents and the like. When trying to have relevant discussion with any of them there will be plenty of denial, blame, rage, etc. It's so very difficult to both wanting to be loyal and to wanting to honor the self.
Choose your self for your life for your sanity its called self care self love otherwise it will be a slow death.
Be loyal to how God created you❤
Its a very sad situation when you have a family like this.. its toxic and its best to stay away as much as you can.. life is better without them in it..
It has been a long and bumpy road to healthy adulthood, I must say. It's not like I read a good psychology book and cracked the riddle in two weeks.
It took years to understand what happened in my family and what kind of work I had to within myself
I've been to therapy groups, I've seen a therapist on my own, I've read loads of books, and now I've found this channel.
I'm a proud work in progress 🙂
Stay strong, Kim!! Dr. C
Agree with you and wanna add one thing too: To being healthy is not a concept that's like %100 crystal clear white or so. Thus, being on the way of healthy life is an enough aim since there are no people with %100 health. There are always ups and downs, wrong moves, state of minds, unintended but unethical behavior towards this or that person...
Pressured to conform or else face rejection. Having to resort to shallowness (and dishonesty) to protect the self. Become a keeper of personal secrets but, at the same time, not allowed to confront the family's disgraceful secrets because it would blow their cover.
Bingo! That's my husband's experience - and all so normal to him and his siblings from birth onward that they still don't get it.
I recognized how destructive it had always been and, because I didn't play along, I was regarded as "the problem." In fact, my Narc-in-laws backstabbed me to my husband's siblings exactly that way.
So narc-driven families pass on their sickness from one generation to the next . . . and to the next after that.
This totally describes my family of origin. Thank you for helping me to know my value and to unlock my freedom and not repeat these dysfunctional patterns with my son. You’re doing great work Dr.C!
I dont know that I've survived, but I am definitely scarred!
Having a gaslighter wife and a narcissist father that finally teamed up I just can recommend to leave that system and never look back. They will try to get into control of you even after you left.
Yeah the Lord have been advising me to pull away from certain family members including my mom. YES they DEFINITELY keep up a front. I know it's the reason why my mom don't get along with me. Because I became my own person. I got real sick a couple of months ago. So, she took off of work to supposedly help me out by staying with my son when I had to go in the hospital and what not. But all she do is help mess up, try to argue, and always want to prove how right she is about something. Narcissist are definitely childish, and they are very unemotionally available. And if you don't seek healing from what you have encountered. Every relationship you choose will be with abusive types of people as well. All you can do is pray for them and love on them from a distance. And move on with your life without feeling guilt, shame, or fear. These are generational curses that have been passed down from generation to generation. And God is breaking these curses in this season. God bless everyone. God loves you, and so do I.
It's been over a week since going no contact with The Queen Mother. I didn't realize how much brain space she took up in my thoughts! Extricating her control means "taking every thought captive to be obedient to Christ", my true King. Hes helping me through your videos and the comments. Thank you so much!
This is helping me so much , I am learning a lot about narcissistic behaviour in my childhood and my reaction to that situation was not good , I was like quiet and sad at home . I know now how to stay me and not let me pull down to a narcissistic mother . I want to be me ! Find myself back. I have my own place now , but always thinking about my mother, I cant let go .
You are exactly right, superficiality & externals predominate in a narcissistic family. Setting boundaries with family members went to ** when my ex triangulated. I am like the black sheep, scape goat, non-conformist. My dad and I are the empaths in the family. I am having to navigate the family system again, post-marriage.
This is so my dad of origin. The bottom line is that he doesn't want anyone to look better then he is. I have had to break away completely from my family of origin, all 8 of them.
Thank you for the good advice re the narcissist. I have practiced Grey Rock, it works. I now understand it’s not me, it’s their problem. I have little to nothing to do with them (the narc) and I feel empowered. I live independently and I feel good about myself. I went out and bought myself new clothes and had my hair restyled. Your sound advice has helped me recover from the narcissistic abuse. I feel much improved as an individual. Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. C. Now I understand why I was punished for having a deep connection with my aging father at the end of his life. I never considered that in narcissistic family systems deep connections are discouraged.
We can appreciate our family from a distance
Love seeing that dog snuggling up on the couch in the background. Sweet.
You can also speak to someone your parents really trust and respect to speak on your behalf when you want to break away. I did that and it worked.
Although a narcissistic family won’t agree, sometimes, the best way to honor them, is to leave entirely. It can be a conclusion that takes time to come to. But, once you have, you May look back and find that there was no other healthy way. This can be so, whether you’re compliant or combative. As was insinuated to me, it was up to me to “keep the peace”, while my younger sister was to be allowed to degrade into an ogre. Since I knew that would have a very finite shelf life, where I’m concerned, it was one of the many reasons I left.
Honor them? No. The best way to honor yourself!! They have neither deserve any HONOR!!
@@noneyourbusiness7311 I only said honor because I think Dr. Carter mentioned it in the video, as per how narcissistic parents and other family members likely perceive themselves, in comparison to those who they see as beneath and in servitude of them.
I used to think I should honor my mother, when she hadn’t shown who she truly was. But, once she did, heh. Honor went flying out the friggin’ window, with the typical cartoon sound, to accompany it.
I didn’t mind honoring my mother. But, perhaps to her surprise, for me, that NEVER meant that my life was all about improving and extending hers. That was a miscalculation, on her part.
@@privateprivate8366 ditto!!
Shallowness supercedes deep connections, yes that's the memo I never received! Better late than never 🙏😇😇😇🙏
Dr C every which way I turn in my circle of family/friends they are all narcissists. What to do? How wonderful it would be to just have a pleasant day with a non narcissist.
Wow. Same here. Sometimes I wish I could teleport to Tibet and be a monk.
Have you considered moving to another state or country? Don't keep yourself imprisoned among abusers any longer. It would do you a ton of good to see what life is like without the strings of narcissists. And may I advise you to get a new phone number and to fake internet problems? Once there, you do NOT want all to intrude in your new-found freedom. They will play the guilt-card and you may fully ignore that! And watch out for too nice people, who are just narcissists charming you into their lives. Get information and if needed therapy to sort things out, so you don't surround yourself with the poison you know, all over again.
16 yrs of NO Contact for me was independence and taking my life back. While all those yrs my Narcissistic oldest sister Sophia the Queen Bee groomed all the other 5 sisters and 4 brothers including my Mama to become the image like her they are all Narcissist's. We never again are able to connect or speak to each other keeping up appearances is the norm their fake image is more important than a reality of a TOXIC family and I chose to Never be like them, Never, ever, ever be like them! They hate me because I will not be controlled or engage in their destructive patterns and poisoning Toxic DRAMA!