Good comparison. The LWRC is a very good rifle, as is the POF, and I have seen specimens of both that have round counts in the tens of thousands that were still running strong. The primary difference in the gas system is the LWRC is far more complicated. The LWRC two-piece op-rod and piston cup is all held together by spring pressure. The bad part is, if the spring breaks or weakens, the op-rod can literally fall apart. The good thing about this approach is the op-rod can flex a little at the joints, so there is little chance of it bending. It also allows a greater margin of error during manufacturing, making them easier to build. That being said, I have NOT seen a op-rod spring on a a LWRC fail, but the potential is real because ALL springs WILL eventually fail. Have a spare! The POF is very simple, works at least as well as the LWRC, and simply represents a different approach to solve the same problem. The single-piece op-rod requires extremely tight manufacturing processes because it can't tolerate much miss-alignment at all. I have seen a POF op-rod bend, but it was under very extreme testing conditions. That test lead to the redesign of the op-rod, and that, in turn, allowed the advent of the full auto P308FA. The P415/416 uses the same op-rod as the P308 and P308FA. Because I'm still a little emotionally scared from witnessing the bent op-rod, I keep a spare in my kit, just in case. It takes 30 seconds to replace without tools. As far as cleaning the gas system, I have never worried about it. I simply have never had my POF give me a reason to clean the gas system, so I don't. I have less experience with the LWRC, but from what I have been told by people I trust, (LWRC pro staff), they don't clean their systems either! However, if you simply can't sleep knowing your gas system's a little dirty, by all means, clean it! I will note that removing the hand guard on a POF is not that hard to do, but it's not necessary or recommended. The LWRC hand guard comes apart fairly easily to clean it, the bad point is you HAVE to take it a part to clean it! Not something I'd like to do in the field. I like the weight of the LWRC!!!!! Weight is a big, big, big deal to me, and the older I get, the bigger the deal!!! The POF is a heavy SOB, however, the POF is a ZERO compromise, tack driving, state of the art, accurate rifle. But the LWRC is no slouch at printing tight shot groups either. Lighter in good! POF coating, heat treats, and finishes are the best in the world. Nothing out there really compares. My son took my P308 to Alaska bear hunting on the beach. It came back to me covered with salt crusties, but it had zero rust or corrosion. This is no small detail if you that your rifle out in the weather. I like the 6.8 SPC, and LWRC is the undisputed world champion of the 6.8 SPC!! I have a POF in 6.8 SPC, it's awesome, but its not a choice these days because they don't offer it anymore. If you're looking for the state-of-the-art cambering in a state-of-the-art AR15, look no farther than the LWRC 6.8 SPC! One last note, and this is simply my opinion; if you are just going to the range, having fun, plinking at paper, and maybe a hog now and then, get a $900 impingement AR and you will be happy. If you are going to spend $2000 - $3000 on one of the best AR platforms in the world, buy one of these piston rifles!
Good synopsis and comparison. I have neither, at the moment anyway...but have been SERIOUSLY considering the LWRC 6.8 SPC. Seems like a great rifle although specific chambering. It’s been a tug-of-war actually BETWEEN a BCM .300 BLK and the 6.8 mentioned. We’ll see...
Curious what is your opinion on the NEMO XO 16" .308? It is a gun I have seriously considered. I looked at the POF Revolution GEN4 short gas Piston. Even looked at LWRC, but NEMO is a sub-1MOA rifle. LWRC is also guaranteed sub 1moa with the REPR MKII. I am very much a newb and looking to do the "BUY ONCE CRY ONCE" rule. But I am curious what would be your top 3 or 4 .308win/762 DMR's would be(AR-10's) I even considered Christian Arms-CA10-.308. But it's for sure not a sub 1moa. I am looking for a match grade as my Father and I want to go to events, & ranges together. For sure no matter what I buy Geisele trigger is going in it. that comes on the LWRC REPR MK11. I am trying to stay near the $3k range before taxes, & I want the .308/762nato Semi-Auto DMR to be able to be used to hunt if necessary. All-purpose Tactical DMR .308/762 with guaranteed sub 1moa. I have been researching forever, I live in NJ so It's nearly impossible to get AR-style rifles. They pin the stocks, mags, & even Muzzle breaks. Kind of ridiculous. But I have no choice. So I've been looking at the brands I mentioned. Never seen a LARUE for sale. The AERO Precision I heard was good, but it would need a lot of mods to match the NEMO or LWRC from what I've read. opinions?
This is a good video. I am a class 3 dealer that uses my POF for demos with friends and LE. However their was no mention of the POF Heat Sink that raps around the barrel. My guess is that is why they use such a large diameter hand guard. Plus the Fluted barrel helps cool the barrel down. The POF muzzle break is awesome with the recoil. I am firm believer in POF after running my POF upper on my M16 lower with Tula Ammo and never have one seize up in the chamber. I have fired over 5,000rds of steel case ammo in my upper since July running it full auto. Not one issue at all! I use little to no oil and can not make the gun fail....or least I can't. You also mentioned you can not take the muzzle break off on the POF. A gunsmith can remove the pin and pin the muzzle break of your choice. After watching this video. I think I will stick with my POF rifles. "Relentless Reliability"
"I don't want to get into the DI vs Piston Debate"... then spends the next 4 minutes debating how piston is better. The one thing I'd say is that you don't have to clean a DI gun as much as you'd think, but still dirtier in the chamber, it's lighter, has more third party accessories/upgrades, and it's cheaper. You covered all the benefits of a Piston gun, but not the negatives, like they are heavier, more expensive, proprietary parts. Great video and mostly still rings true today, these guns have not changed much. Very helpful.
I have owned a LWRC in the past. I sold it because of the much more complex piston system which has this funky spring in it. I just never felt that comfortable with that liability in the system. I now own 5 POFs and love them all. 3 of them are actually fully ambidextrous in every way.
@@travisvanvalkenburg5751 Me too was looking at the revolution but saw the p308 edge on buds for 1300 i jumped on it just got it about a week ago I'm loving it my first piston ar and all pistols I own our glocks so I'm a pof/glock man now also . How do you like your p308? and what scope are you putting on it having trouble deciding.
The POF 415 was in a meltdown video from Iraqveteran8888 and it ran 2,500 rounds of full auto (Torture Test). Some DI AR-15's ran around 800 before total failure. I do not recall if any LWRC's were tested yet. A piston LMT AR ran around 835 rounds before total failure. So....could the LWRC run 2,500 before failure? I don't know.....but I know the POF 415 did.
@@FloridaPatriot69 sorry but friendly recorrect. It was a 415 with a full auto lower. Watch the video again and he talks about the lower and who supplied it.
folks don't let a rifle with no sights determine your purchase. this isn't a budget rifle. you don't want to get a inferior rifle just because it doesn't have plastic sights on it you won't use anyway.
In the "Meltdown" videos, the LWRC went 830 rounds before a catastrophic failure. The POF Nnever failed and went 2700 rounds on full auto, then could still fire on semi !!!!!!!!!
POF 416 got that bad cycling because of the ammo? Not enough pressure to make the gun recycle? Because it seems pretty reliable, I mean, a lot more than a AK, and the best AK i saw was the AK 103, 1400 rounds flawless, no malfunction, they run out of ammo, but the POF 416 run 2737 round, kind of slow, idk wich one is more reliable... Anyway, piston guns are better in terms of longevity without maintenance compared to DI AR.
Sheep Dog where is the lwrc meltdown video or report? I could not find it. The one iraqvet8888 did was of a LMT failing at 833 rounds, is that what you are referring to? That’s a different manufacturer
I’m a piston ar guy love my Pof’ s and pws’ s I’ve had lwrc and they (for TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE reasons) didn’t tickle my fancy that being said meltdown videos aren’t a good way to judge the the durability of a gun I won’t go into the details because it’d take an essay and the info is readily available if you search for it. I just don’t want a quality company like lwrc to be branded with a score so to speak of 830 and have everyone think that every ar that did better in a meltdown test is more durable. Lwrc is a great company now pof’s are a work of art where no detail was overlooked.
I’ve owned pretty much every AR from every manufacturer. I constantly trade just to play with new toys. There’s only one AR I’ve never thought about trading. That’s my POF 415. Take that for what it’s worth
The Gen 4 POF is fully ambidextrous (including a sweet design for the bolt catch so you don't have to run a BAD lever) and they have an improved trigger.
I own 3 LWRC 5.56 rifle, a REPR and a 5.56 LWRC pistol but after some serious issues with customer service being unhelpful and me feeling like I had been ripped off and dismissed, I think my new? 7.62x39 & 300 BLK will be POF. I hope they're as good their reputation. I know they have a serious cult following and Im glad theyrr designed and built in the USA. Im so sick of everything being made in China, Vietnam and Indonesia!
I picked up a POF P308. Imreally impressed with all the features in the craftsmanship of the rifle. The charging handle is very hard to pull I don't know if that's because everything is new and not broken in. I'm going to shoot it this weekend and see how it performs.
Easy choice. POF. Simpler, fewer parts, more rugged, better fit. Quality of material and parts. If you know what you are looking at, LW is very good and POF is great.
Lwrc has better quality . Have both rifles. Lwrc everything is made in house and x rayed. In house cold hammer gorged barrels. Everyone saying pof is better doesn’t know shit
I learn toward the POF personally because I own one. the only thing i dont like is the machined, non-replaceable triggerguard. The new G3 PMAGs have a little bump on the rear which does not fit. BTW the POF does indeed have a ambi mag release unless yours is different than mine. Its does not have an ambi bolt lock, but does act as an ambi bolt RELEASE, so a BAD lever is still needed for ambi bolt locking. for the price i got mine, Im very happy
I love the smaller diameter rail and lower rail height on my LWRC IC SPR. Both it's comfort and appearance. I did replace the trigger with a SSA-E though.
I own 2 POF’s in 5.56 and one in 7.62 . Also own 3 LWRC DI rifles in 5.56 . Love them all and wouldn’t trade them for anything. Hoping to get a REPR soon . BTW , you can absolutely take the POF forend off and it’s no big deal . No real reason to though . I just did it to check out the gun for my own knowledge
To anyone interested in POF now, make sure right side bolt release button is not binding. I had 3 rifles tested in the gun store, all 3 were binding. Quality went down after owner passed away. His family is running POF and they no longer have his standard.
The POF P415 4th generation is accurate and reliable beyond belief. I can't give any hands on opinion on the LWRC as I don't own one but it has a very good reputation. The 4th generation POF P415 is fully ambidextrous.
I like the vid...However he leaves out a big advantage for the POF, the heat sink. This really helps with temperature control. I agree this makes the handguard bigger but to me is an acceptable trade off. The cleaning of the POF is very easy, and to me the handguard is not too big at all. I love mine but I'm sure the LWRC is nice as well.
I currently own a LWRC and love it. The difference in price between the POF and LWRC 5.56/223 isn't much but in the .308 models, there is a pretty big difference in price. POF being about $750-900 LESS than the LWRC REPR.
@No a piston system runs way cleaner and smoother and extends service life of all parts I own both di and piston ever since I bought my first piston rifle I will never go back to direct impingement , it is WAY cleaner I don't have any fouling in my lower reciever and my bcg looks brand new I can shoot 500 rounds in my piston upper and and 50 with my direct impingement and guess which one is dirtier? Direct impingement all day long carbon all over the hammer springs , safety, the bolt face .
+paul axton BULLSHIT. The DI gas can go 1000 rounds without cleaning as long as the carrier is lubed every 250-300 rds. On the long term most piston AR rifles break---as often as 3000 rounds. Piston rings and cups are the issue--POF, LWRC ,SCAR--BAD BAD BAD. You have no experience and are an amateur obviously. STFU
+paul axton Wow--you build guns. Well pardon me JR. I have been with the AR system for decades, and on top of that we rent guns, and have millions of rounds of experience as to what works and what does not. Short stroke piston AR's DO NOT LAST. If you are stupid enough to ask why--well you are stupid period. POF & LWRC do NOT last compared to a standard COLT DI AR. A FACT JACK--so kiss my ass
So that's why the navy and marines, buy LWRC. You die hard legacy fanatics make me laugh, The SEALs use SCARs, and yeah you can say to Hadji hold on stop shooting while I coat my bcg with frog lube, welcome to the fight.
The POF Meltdown vid sold many rifles to those that were on the fence, or torn between the P415, PWS and LWRC and if I were into DI rifles id for sure own an Renegade Plus. Anyway, if the rifle in the POF video was just an off the shelf rifle, then its one heck of a rifle, but who knows. I own a POF P415 [ sadly haven't had opportunity to shoot it yet] but my plans are to own all three top tier piston ARs from each company. They're ALL great rifles imho. I think it depends on the luck of the draw.For instance, I own a Kimber .45 that i would never get rid of, I also traded one off due to it being a piece of junk. Consistent quality manufacturing is the secret.
I love my LWRC well over 10k rounds weekly shooting zero failures it is my favorite riffle. Everyone talks meltdown test. I am prior military and have never seen a riffle meltdown. Can’t carry enough ammo. So that point isn’t important. I have don’t training weekends with 1k rounds and runs like a champ and only carbon is on the bolt face a simple swipe of a rag and it is clean. Don’t need a coated bolt on a piston riffle. All of my riffles are modified except for my LWRCs just a Vltor butt stock and that is all.
I almost bought both of these but ended up going with an Adams arms short stroke mid length and bought a PWS MK116 mod 1. I got two rifles for the price of one of these. I assembled the Adams arms piece by piece, and just got the pws upper and married it to a solgw lower. Very happy I did that instead of getting just one of these. I’ll be honest I wanted the LWRC IC over the POF, but now I’m torn after this video
Nice and thorough video on your personal user experience with these two platforms. I’ve got a Barrett Rec7 Gen 2 16” piston that I love as it was my first AR15 but my piston only switches from 1 being clean and under standard use and 2 being set when your rifle is dirty which allows more gas to come back on the piston thus making it more reliable. I’ve also had to beef up my buffer with Geissele Super42 H3 when suppressed cause it can get pretty violent. All in all I love my piston rifles and my DI’s as well as they’re all custom super high end builds with Nickle Boron BCGs too but everything gets dirty when that suppressor goes on but much more dirtier on the DI rifles but at least 2k rounds on my DI’s and still had no issues with It. You may want to check on the gas block settings making sure it’s not opening it up more for a dirty rifle when you’re on the next setting. Good luck and thanks for posting 👍🏻
LWRC three piece piston set up is no where close to the POF design, If you notice that's why there is a inspection/replacement cover on the rail. Per LWRC the spring needs replacing after two thousand rounds for top performance or it will lose tension and your rod that attaches to the collar that goes on the gas block will start to ware and that will need to be replaced. (The three piece set up is out dated ) POF one piece op rod design is state of the art and can run dry without any oil !
You can get a ambi mag catch if you want one on the POF, You have a T-rail on you POF you can get an M-rail and have it closer to the size that on the LWRC. The LWRC is over priced for what you get the rifle still uses a two piece GI trigger set up which I found heavy on the WLRC . It uses a plain mil spec bolt it doesn't have a roller cam pin, it makes a difference so you don't put groves in your upper. A forged lower for that price it better be a billet lower that what comes on the POF.
Some misstatements in this video, but not a bad comparison. Like many, I too have both of these rifles. One misstatement is that the LWRC has a "monolithic style" upper / rail system. It does NOT. In fact, the POF is a true "monolithic" rail system. The entire top rail goes the length of the rifle with no seam, unlike the LWRC. It's a better system, even though I'm not a big fan of the rail configuration itself. There's no worry about having to bridge the gap/seam depending upon choice of optic(s). It's better for NV and Thermal clip-ons as well, which I use extensively. Next is the trigger -- the POF trigger beats the crap out of the quasi-MILSPEC LWRC trigger. There is no comparison. Lastly, the POF barrel is a true, match-grade fluted barrel. The entire POF package is a true sub-MOA gun, where the LWRC is more of a "battle rifle". If you're going to hunt or do some longer range shooting, the POF is a much more surgical tool than the LWRC. If you're running carbine classes and your gun is for more hard use, the LWRC is the better gun, IMO. Both rifles are heavy, especially when you add optics, a light, etc. I've "standardized" on the 1x/4x Elcan SpecterDR for most of my rifles, which weighs as much as a Prius, and which is also why I rarely use either the POF or LWRC any more. I'm on a lightweight kick, and any rifle over 5.5 pounds is no longer on my radar.
In POF-415 review you forget to tell about heat release “aliminium radiator” on the barrel end. Also POF also allows to redesign in the field from semiautomatic to normal bolt rifle. However good overview of both rifles.
I have both pof recon 415 and the lwrc. My lwrc is an older model (m6a2). I think the pof is more accurate, and is tad bit softer shooting. What I didn't like about my pof is the weight, and the rail is higher up. I feel the cheek weld on the stock is off, do to the rail height. My lwrc is smoother, tad bit lighter, and feels solid. If I had to choose one it would be my Lwrc, but i don't have to choose. on a side note, both need oil, and both can run without oil if needed.
This guy does not know what he is talking about for a few points. The POF has a mag release on BOTH sides sir. Second the POF also has bolt lock back both sides, better more is one lock back on side of rifle along with bolt lock back within the trigger guard itself. Further more he like the LWRC better when cleaning it, so he like to have to remove his sites first then, then the railing, then cleaning. Then putting rail back on and having to re-sight his scope. Hmmm. POF you can leave scope and railing on and just swith to pull out gas piston rod clean and put back in, period. Seems strange he gives his vote to the LWRC for being simple to clean. I can enjoy his comparison but if your going to make a youtube video about comparing the two shouldn't he make sure he is absolutely correct before saying false things Just saying.... POF if you have run one enough you know that LWRC doesn't have the reliability that the POF does. Running them I have had several jams etc with LWRC and never a single one with POF. Never. Lets see him drag a LWRC through the mud behind a four wheeler as has been done here on youtube and see that LWRC still run like a POF does. I don't see LWRC running 67,000 rounds down that chrome lined barrel as has been done with POF as well. But with all due respect sir, thank you for what you do.
also Daniel Defense are nice but compared to a POF there's just no reliability there ! and with the new Revolution every ER company is left in the dust now. POF is 100% the best rifle AR maker in the world.
It's a mystery to me why you didn't simply slide the POF handguard off like you did with the lwrc. One screw, one piece, five seconds. Easier than with standard handguards, and a more robust system. Your review seems deliberately misleading for those who are unfamiliar with the firearm and don't have a manual handy as you did. If I'm going to criticize a product, I won't fabricate complaints out of thin air.
Well I have mixed feelings about both the Weapons Systems as I own both of the LWRC M6 IC and the POF P 9 SX Rifles both in Caliber 5.56 NATO. I like the Trigger in the POF Rifle because it is Crisp and Breaks Clean where as the LWRC Rifle does not, I like the Full Ambidextrous Control's on the LWRC M6 IC and the ease of getting to the Piston Assembly. There are always going to be a difference of Opinions on both the LWRC IC & POF Rifles in my opinion they are Both Excellent Weapons Systems.
POF is a superior design, he was LWRC BIASEDfrom the begining. Why would disassembling a handguard to remove the piston system be easier than just removing the piston? If he wanted to remove the handguard all he had to remove was 2 screws just like the LWRC but unlike them the whole handguard comes out not just the top section. Why wouldn't he mention the heatsink on the POF the help cool the chamber (very useful to maintain accuracy and in full auto while preserving the life of the barrel) The one thing that LWRC has over the POF is the bolt carrier and its a slimmer profile other than that POF is a better design. BTW I own both well the older LWRC M6 with thicker handguards and the POF I find it to be superior in every way better trigger, better lower receiver, heatsinked chamber/barrel. LWRC well they get Government contracts which usually go to the lowest bidder nuff said.
Well I haven't had any issues with ammo it might be the hole twist rate to weight ratio a lot of people don't know the tables then wonder why they get keyholes on paper or no paper at all. The twist affects the spin of the bullet thus degrading the accuracy of the system.
Ben Delgado III No problems with accuracy just the .308 stovepipes with PMC ammo. It's 147 grain and it seems that the ammo isn't hot enough to push the bolt carrier back with enough force to eject the shells very far. I will have 1 to 2 stovepipes out of each 20 round magazine when using PMC ammo. Other ammo like FGGM, Hornady, PPU all run fine.
Have you tried changing the buffer to a lighter one? Other than that next thing would be a lighter BC or just sticking to what works and avoid the other stuff.. I don't have the 308, So its totally beyond my scope.
For now I'm just going to stick to the better ammo just wish I could use it because it was pretty cheap for .308 ammo. You know what they say Cheap in Cheap out. However, My .223 POF has cycled everything flawlessly.
I purchased POF minuteman last year And i had problems with it out the box It was impossible to zero it No matter what ammo, or how i adjust the scope Later i noticed that the cases were flying out in different directions ( instead of flying in 3-o’clock position) The same scope was switched back to my first ar that I had , and you gonna laugh It was Black Rain Ordnance It was shooting 1 moa groups right away While pof could not hit a shit at 50 yards I sold both of them Got LWRC And it was best decision I made Just wanted to share my experience
That’s interesting, i know my p415 is a tackdriver but i also got one from 2011 before frank died and the company went towards lighter weight rifles. So their quality could be going down but i know the older pof’s are amazing little tanks.
Tim Mason what sort of issues have you had? So far out of about 3000 rounds I have only had problems with extraction when firing steel case Wolf ammo. Once in a while I have failure to extract with TulaAmmo, but so far I haven't had a single issue with brass.
I have over 12k rounds through my Gen 3 POF that I use as a 3-gun rifle here in WV and it's amazing. Hands down, best AR I have ever shot. I'm about to pick up my new Gen 4 P415 and I cannot wait
Natalee Pellicciotti - The only thing that sucks about Daniel Defense, is it does not like steel case ammo. In a shit hits the fan situation, you want a rifle that will take that with no issues if that's all you have available
Totally a bunch a BS. POF hand down out of the box you do not need to take apart anything it shoots accurate out of the box just throw some sights on it never a failure never a problem and oh yeah have not cleaned it yet and zero failures to date.
This guy is a LWRC fan boy. The POF, especially the Gen 4, is one of the finest AR systems ever made. The POF is revolutionary people. This guy fails to mention numerous details on the POF, some being game changers. The last LWRC I owned was a M6A2, it was a really fine tool. The POF is supreme, do your own research and go shoot both for yourself.
Tou Xiong did you get your LW CR if you did did you like it I bought the POF Revolution and his baby sister that p415 and I just got the drd Tactical 338 Lapua
POF's are heavy. I keep mine because it's accurate and easy to clean. If you want put anything but a small red dot on your AR I would look at a lighter rifle.
It's never a good idea to choose your weapon systems based on what our military is using. They choose their systems based on reliability and performance, yes, but there is also bureaucratic problems. The military purchases mass quantities of each weapon system and cost is a major factor, mobility is a factor and all the politics, contracts and logistics come into play and hinder the military from using the absolute most effective equipment possible for the job that needs to be done.if you want the best references and the best suggestions for weapons system, you need look at the competition world and the 3-gun world. Those guys shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year and they know what is reliable and what is the latest and greatest systems and accessories. LWRC and Patriot Ordnance both have battle-proven records and no one can dispute that. Patriot leans more towards the law enforcement side and lwrc leans more towards military, both U.S. and militaries of other countries. So, you can't go wrong with either. I personally lean towards LWRC. I have a lot of their rifles in 5.56 & 7.62X51. Ive recently bought a POF 308 & 7.62x39. Im still on the fence if their proprietary roller cam pin chewed up my LWRC's upper receiver or not. But just as a rule of thumb never trust the government to get the job done in the most effective way, there's always going to be bureaucratic bullshit involved lol
Glad to see that weapon techs have no say in what we are issued, otherwise all our kit would be oriented towards their needs and not our (the users) needs. To buy a rifle that is more expensive, has more parts, weighs more, does the same job a DI gun does because ''it is easier to clean'' is mostly a silly thought.
Any one have a lwrc ic pdw yet. I want to get one but there a lot of money and I have to wait to see if I get my c&r. Any one has one to sell let me know
Even though the right side doesn't release the bolt its is actually ambidextrous the left side is actually milled into the side instead of a screw on tab like lwrc. Also no springs in the piston and I'm pretty sure if you were to buy a model in the same price range it will be fully ambi. And pof doesn't need anti tilt bolt carrier because they have an anti tilt buffer tube. Finally lwrc is chrome lined =less accurate. Pof is nitride heat treat. (Case hardened) more durable more accurate.
+chad haire I wouldn't call a one letter typo my english. shit bag. and pof already has a .308 documented with 70k through it on full auto. Why don't you look down the barrel next time yoh play with it?
What do you want to do? For 225-5009 yards I used mil surplus from Hiertenbergee, Magtech 7.62X51 .and Federal, they're all 145-170 I believe. Going out further I used a few brands of high end 168 & 175 grain like Hornady, Federal, ADI, a few others.
These comments: "The POF is better meow meow meow." Cons: It weighs more. You can't remove the handguard. It's harder to clean. It isn't fully ambidextrous. The bore-sight distance is higher. It's bulkier. Pros? It comes with a better factory trigger that's harder to replace if you don't like it.
Ryan Pannell Because you're having to dump everything out and shift the rifle around instead of unscrewing two things with your hand. And if your POF is fully ambi, then it isn't this rifle.
+LastCasualty I'm assuming your replying to something about the piston system? which wouldn't have anything to do with it being ambidextrous. read what you write compared to what your replying to doesn't make any sense. no offense but try again.
The only LOGICAL decision is buy both, I did!! And love them both.
Good comparison. The LWRC is a very good rifle, as is the POF, and I have seen specimens of both that have round counts in the tens of thousands that were still running strong. The primary difference in the gas system is the LWRC is far more complicated. The LWRC two-piece op-rod and piston cup is all held together by spring pressure. The bad part is, if the spring breaks or weakens, the op-rod can literally fall apart. The good thing about this approach is the op-rod can flex a little at the joints, so there is little chance of it bending. It also allows a greater margin of error during manufacturing, making them easier to build. That being said, I have NOT seen a op-rod spring on a a LWRC fail, but the potential is real because ALL springs WILL eventually fail. Have a spare!
The POF is very simple, works at least as well as the LWRC, and simply represents a different approach to solve the same problem. The single-piece op-rod requires extremely tight manufacturing processes because it can't tolerate much miss-alignment at all. I have seen a POF op-rod bend, but it was under very extreme testing conditions. That test lead to the redesign of the op-rod, and that, in turn, allowed the advent of the full auto P308FA. The P415/416 uses the same op-rod as the P308 and P308FA. Because I'm still a little emotionally scared from witnessing the bent op-rod, I keep a spare in my kit, just in case. It takes 30 seconds to replace without tools.
As far as cleaning the gas system, I have never worried about it. I simply have never had my POF give me a reason to clean the gas system, so I don't. I have less experience with the LWRC, but from what I have been told by people I trust, (LWRC pro staff), they don't clean their systems either! However, if you simply can't sleep knowing your gas system's a little dirty, by all means, clean it! I will note that removing the hand guard on a POF is not that hard to do, but it's not necessary or recommended. The LWRC hand guard comes apart fairly easily to clean it, the bad point is you HAVE to take it a part to clean it! Not something I'd like to do in the field.
I like the weight of the LWRC!!!!! Weight is a big, big, big deal to me, and the older I get, the bigger the deal!!! The POF is a heavy SOB, however, the POF is a ZERO compromise, tack driving, state of the art, accurate rifle. But the LWRC is no slouch at printing tight shot groups either. Lighter in good!
POF coating, heat treats, and finishes are the best in the world. Nothing out there really compares. My son took my P308 to Alaska bear hunting on the beach. It came back to me covered with salt crusties, but it had zero rust or corrosion. This is no small detail if you that your rifle out in the weather.
I like the 6.8 SPC, and LWRC is the undisputed world champion of the 6.8 SPC!! I have a POF in 6.8 SPC, it's awesome, but its not a choice these days because they don't offer it anymore. If you're looking for the state-of-the-art cambering in a state-of-the-art AR15, look no farther than the LWRC 6.8 SPC!
One last note, and this is simply my opinion; if you are just going to the range, having fun, plinking at paper, and maybe a hog now and then, get a $900 impingement AR and you will be happy. If you are going to spend $2000 - $3000 on one of the best AR platforms in the world, buy one of these piston rifles!
Good synopsis and comparison. I have neither, at the moment anyway...but have been SERIOUSLY considering the LWRC 6.8 SPC. Seems like a great rifle although specific chambering. It’s been a tug-of-war actually BETWEEN a BCM .300 BLK and the 6.8 mentioned. We’ll see...
@@m118lr 300 if your gonna suppress I think, does BCM have a piston system out? LMT is hell of a rifle as well
Thank you for the informed input and details! Much appreciated!
Curious what is your opinion on the NEMO XO 16" .308? It is a gun I have seriously considered. I looked at the POF Revolution GEN4 short gas Piston. Even looked at LWRC, but NEMO is a sub-1MOA rifle. LWRC is also guaranteed sub 1moa with the REPR MKII. I am very much a newb and looking to do the "BUY ONCE CRY ONCE" rule. But I am curious what would be your top 3 or 4 .308win/762 DMR's would be(AR-10's) I even considered Christian Arms-CA10-.308. But it's for sure not a sub 1moa. I am looking for a match grade as my Father and I want to go to events, & ranges together. For sure no matter what I buy Geisele trigger is going in it. that comes on the LWRC REPR MK11. I am trying to stay near the $3k range before taxes, & I want the .308/762nato Semi-Auto DMR to be able to be used to hunt if necessary. All-purpose Tactical DMR .308/762 with guaranteed sub 1moa. I have been researching forever, I live in NJ so It's nearly impossible to get AR-style rifles. They pin the stocks, mags, & even Muzzle breaks. Kind of ridiculous. But I have no choice. So I've been looking at the brands I mentioned. Never seen a LARUE for sale. The AERO Precision I heard was good, but it would need a lot of mods to match the NEMO or LWRC from what I've read. opinions?
@@christophererz578 you have to move bro
The POF was my first firearm, got it for my 18th birthday
Great choice, just change the buffer for a jp spring and a sidecharger.
That's one hell of a birthday gift, grats!
LWRC IC-SPR was my first
This is a good video. I am a class 3 dealer that uses my POF for demos with friends and LE. However their was no mention of the POF Heat Sink that raps around the barrel. My guess is that is why they use such a large diameter hand guard. Plus the Fluted barrel helps cool the barrel down. The POF muzzle break is awesome with the recoil. I am firm believer in POF after running my POF upper on my M16 lower with Tula Ammo and never have one seize up in the chamber. I have fired over 5,000rds of steel case ammo in my upper since July running it full auto. Not one issue at all! I use little to no oil and can not make the gun fail....or least I can't. You also mentioned you can not take the muzzle break off on the POF. A gunsmith can remove the pin and pin the muzzle break of your choice. After watching this video. I think I will stick with my POF rifles. "Relentless Reliability"
"I don't want to get into the DI vs Piston Debate"... then spends the next 4 minutes debating how piston is better. The one thing I'd say is that you don't have to clean a DI gun as much as you'd think, but still dirtier in the chamber, it's lighter, has more third party accessories/upgrades, and it's cheaper. You covered all the benefits of a Piston gun, but not the negatives, like they are heavier, more expensive, proprietary parts. Great video and mostly still rings true today, these guns have not changed much. Very helpful.
I have owned a LWRC in the past. I sold it because of the much more complex piston system which has this funky spring in it. I just never felt that comfortable with that liability in the system. I now own 5 POFs and love them all. 3 of them are actually fully ambidextrous in every way.
@@travisvanvalkenburg5751 Me too was looking at the revolution but saw the p308 edge on buds for 1300 i jumped on it just got it about a week ago I'm loving it my first piston ar and all pistols I own our glocks so I'm a pof/glock man now also . How do you like your p308? and what scope are you putting on it having trouble deciding.
@@travisvanvalkenburg5751 thanks for the suggestions i've been looking at both of them .
really, ur worried about reliability and u bought a piston gun.lol
What are you talking about. I own them both and lwrc is better. Lwrcs piston system is the best in the industry. Stop fanboying
Sig didn't copy POF they copied LWRC that should tell you something
The POF 415 was in a meltdown video from Iraqveteran8888 and it ran 2,500 rounds of full auto (Torture Test). Some DI AR-15's ran around 800 before total failure. I do not recall if any LWRC's were tested yet. A piston LMT AR ran around 835 rounds before total failure. So....could the LWRC run 2,500 before failure? I don't know.....but I know the POF 415 did.
That was the POF416 full auto.. friendly correction.
@@FloridaPatriot69 sorry but friendly recorrect. It was a 415 with a full auto lower. Watch the video again and he talks about the lower and who supplied it.
folks don't let a rifle with no sights determine your purchase. this isn't a budget rifle. you don't want to get a inferior rifle just because it doesn't have plastic sights on it you won't use anyway.
In the "Meltdown" videos, the LWRC went 830 rounds before a catastrophic failure. The POF Nnever failed and went 2700 rounds on full auto, then could still fire on semi !!!!!!!!!
Saw it...im sold......proof is in the pudding ...thank u
POF 416 got that bad cycling because of the ammo? Not enough pressure to make the gun recycle? Because it seems pretty reliable, I mean, a lot more than a AK, and the best AK i saw was the AK 103, 1400 rounds flawless, no malfunction, they run out of ammo, but the POF 416 run 2737 round, kind of slow, idk wich one is more reliable... Anyway, piston guns are better in terms of longevity without maintenance compared to DI AR.
Sheep Dog where is the lwrc meltdown video or report? I could not find it. The one iraqvet8888 did was of a LMT failing at 833 rounds, is that what you are referring to? That’s a different manufacturer
Where is the lwrc meltdown? I can't find it.
I’m a piston ar guy love my Pof’ s and pws’ s I’ve had lwrc and they (for TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE reasons) didn’t tickle my fancy that being said meltdown videos aren’t a good way to judge the the durability of a gun I won’t go into the details because it’d take an essay and the info is readily available if you search for it. I just don’t want a quality company like lwrc to be branded with a score so to speak of 830 and have everyone think that every ar that did better in a meltdown test is more durable. Lwrc is a great company now pof’s are a work of art where no detail was overlooked.
I’ve owned pretty much every AR from every manufacturer. I constantly trade just to play with new toys. There’s only one AR I’ve never thought about trading. That’s my POF 415. Take that for what it’s worth
The Gen 4 POF is fully ambidextrous (including a sweet design for the bolt catch so you don't have to run a BAD lever) and they have an improved trigger.
Hello I just bought one. What about the charging handle?
I own 3 LWRC 5.56 rifle, a REPR and a 5.56 LWRC pistol but after some serious issues with customer service being unhelpful and me feeling like I had been ripped off and dismissed, I think my new? 7.62x39 & 300 BLK will be POF. I hope they're as good their reputation. I know they have a serious cult following and Im glad theyrr designed and built in the USA. Im so sick of everything being made in China, Vietnam and Indonesia!
I picked up a POF P308. Imreally impressed with all the features in the craftsmanship of the rifle. The charging handle is very hard to pull I don't know if that's because everything is new and not broken in. I'm going to shoot it this weekend and see how it performs.
I just got my POF p415 Edge couple months ago with the Gen 4 lower fully ambidextrous I love this rifle
"Where would you rather have your dog crap? House or Yard?" Great analogy! LOL
I own six POF's and I swear by their reliability and accuracy! Top notch and I'd say 10/10 all day long!
Easy choice. POF. Simpler, fewer parts, more rugged, better fit. Quality of material and parts. If you know what you are looking at, LW is very good and POF is great.
Lwrc has better quality . Have both rifles. Lwrc everything is made in house and x rayed. In house cold hammer gorged barrels. Everyone saying pof is better doesn’t know shit
Both these guns are way beyond what ''normal'' people would ever need. These are two marbles of the AR sub family (Arma lite) Both rifles are superb.
The Gen 4 POF is fully ambi. So...not an issue now.
I learn toward the POF personally because I own one. the only thing i dont like is the machined, non-replaceable triggerguard. The new G3 PMAGs have a little bump on the rear which does not fit. BTW the POF does indeed have a ambi mag release unless yours is different than mine. Its does not have an ambi bolt lock, but does act as an ambi bolt RELEASE, so a BAD lever is still needed for ambi bolt locking. for the price i got mine, Im very happy
I love the smaller diameter rail and lower rail height on my LWRC IC SPR. Both it's comfort and appearance.
I did replace the trigger with a SSA-E though.
I own 2 POF’s in 5.56 and one in 7.62 . Also own 3 LWRC DI rifles in 5.56 . Love them all and wouldn’t trade them for anything. Hoping to get a REPR soon . BTW , you can absolutely take the POF forend off and it’s no big deal . No real reason to though . I just did it to check out the gun for my own knowledge
To anyone interested in POF now, make sure right side bolt release button is not binding.
I had 3 rifles tested in the gun store, all 3 were binding.
Quality went down after owner passed away.
His family is running POF and they no longer have his standard.
The POF P415 4th generation is accurate and reliable beyond belief. I can't give any hands on opinion on the LWRC as I don't own one but it has a very good reputation. The 4th generation POF P415 is fully ambidextrous.
I like the vid...However he leaves out a big advantage for the POF, the heat sink. This really helps with temperature control. I agree this makes the handguard bigger but to me is an acceptable trade off. The cleaning of the POF is very easy, and to me the handguard is not too big at all. I love mine but I'm sure the LWRC is nice as well.
I currently own a LWRC and love it.
The difference in price between the POF and LWRC 5.56/223 isn't much but in the .308 models, there is a pretty big difference in price. POF being about $750-900 LESS than the LWRC REPR.
I bought the POF Revolution 2 months ago and the p415 edge his baby sister and then I just now bought the drd Tactical 338 Lapua
How is the Revolution doing?
@No a piston system runs way cleaner and smoother and extends service life of all parts I own both di and piston ever since I bought my first piston rifle I will never go back to direct impingement , it is WAY cleaner I don't have any fouling in my lower reciever and my bcg looks brand new I can shoot 500 rounds in my piston upper and and 50 with my direct impingement and guess which one is dirtier? Direct impingement all day long carbon all over the hammer springs , safety, the bolt face .
+paul axton BULLSHIT. The DI gas can go 1000 rounds without cleaning as long as the carrier is lubed every 250-300 rds. On the long term most piston AR rifles break---as often as 3000 rounds. Piston rings and cups are the issue--POF, LWRC ,SCAR--BAD BAD BAD. You have no experience and are an amateur obviously. STFU
I'm entitled to my opinion, so go fuck yourself moron.
I build guns .
+paul axton Wow--you build guns. Well pardon me JR. I have been with the AR system for decades, and on top of that we rent guns, and have millions of rounds of experience as to what works and what does not. Short stroke piston AR's DO NOT LAST. If you are stupid enough to ask why--well you are stupid period. POF & LWRC do NOT last compared to a standard COLT DI AR. A FACT JACK--so kiss my ass
So that's why the navy and marines, buy LWRC. You die hard legacy fanatics make me laugh, The SEALs use SCARs, and yeah you can say to Hadji hold on stop shooting while I coat my bcg with frog lube, welcome to the fight.
The POF Meltdown vid sold many rifles to those that were on the fence, or torn between the P415, PWS and LWRC and if I were into DI rifles id for sure own an Renegade Plus. Anyway, if the rifle in the POF video was just an off the shelf rifle, then its one heck of a rifle, but who knows. I own a POF P415 [ sadly haven't had opportunity to shoot it yet] but my plans are to own all three top tier piston ARs from each company. They're ALL great rifles imho. I think it depends on the luck of the draw.For instance, I own a Kimber .45 that i would never get rid of, I also traded one off due to it being a piece of junk. Consistent quality manufacturing is the secret.
Almost forgot about LMT. so, i guess there are 4 top tier.
That meltdown video sold me on my p415 and I couldn’t be happier
I love my LWRC well over 10k rounds weekly shooting zero failures it is my favorite riffle.
Everyone talks meltdown test.
I am prior military and have never seen a riffle meltdown. Can’t carry enough ammo. So that point isn’t important.
I have don’t training weekends with 1k rounds and runs like a champ and only carbon is on the bolt face a simple swipe of a rag and it is clean.
Don’t need a coated bolt on a piston riffle.
All of my riffles are modified except for my LWRCs just a Vltor butt stock and that is all.
I almost bought both of these but ended up going with an Adams arms short stroke mid length and bought a PWS MK116 mod 1. I got two rifles for the price of one of these. I assembled the Adams arms piece by piece, and just got the pws upper and married it to a solgw lower. Very happy I did that instead of getting just one of these. I’ll be honest I wanted the LWRC IC over the POF, but now I’m torn after this video
The bolt in the p415 is the best in the business, all one piece and fully coated and comes with roller pins
Nice and thorough video on your personal user experience with these two platforms. I’ve got a Barrett Rec7 Gen 2 16” piston that I love as it was my first AR15 but my piston only switches from 1 being clean and under standard use and 2 being set when your rifle is dirty which allows more gas to come back on the piston thus making it more reliable. I’ve also had to beef up my buffer with Geissele Super42 H3 when suppressed cause it can get pretty violent. All in all I love my piston rifles and my DI’s as well as they’re all custom super high end builds with Nickle Boron BCGs too but everything gets dirty when that suppressor goes on but much more dirtier on the DI rifles but at least 2k rounds on my DI’s and still had no issues with It. You may want to check on the gas block settings making sure it’s not opening it up more for a dirty rifle when you’re on the next setting. Good luck and thanks for posting 👍🏻
POF p415 is the greatest AR-15 ever made
" I'm going to go through my Nauseating detail on each one",, LOL
Honesty
Andhe failed to mention that POF developed the piston system for the AR15.
Not really. The Colt 703 was a piston AR-15 made back in 1969.
LWRC three piece piston set up is no where close to the POF design, If you notice that's why there is a inspection/replacement cover on the rail. Per LWRC the spring needs replacing after two thousand rounds for top performance or it will lose tension and your rod that attaches to the collar that goes on the gas block will start to ware and that will need to be replaced. (The three piece set up is out dated )
POF one piece op rod design is state of the art and can run dry without any oil !
You can get a ambi mag catch if you want one on the POF, You have a T-rail on you POF you can get an M-rail and have it closer to the size that on the LWRC.
The LWRC is over priced for what you get the rifle still uses a two piece GI trigger set up which I found heavy on the WLRC . It uses a plain mil spec bolt it doesn't have a roller cam pin, it makes a difference so you don't put groves in your upper. A forged lower for that price it better be a billet lower that what comes on the POF.
LWRC! I have both and trust me LWRC lights a fire under POFs ASS!
What a thorough review! A wonderful job.
Cleaning the POF's is not that bad lol
Some misstatements in this video, but not a bad comparison. Like many, I too have both of these rifles. One misstatement is that the LWRC has a "monolithic style" upper / rail system. It does NOT. In fact, the POF is a true "monolithic" rail system. The entire top rail goes the length of the rifle with no seam, unlike the LWRC. It's a better system, even though I'm not a big fan of the rail configuration itself. There's no worry about having to bridge the gap/seam depending upon choice of optic(s). It's better for NV and Thermal clip-ons as well, which I use extensively. Next is the trigger -- the POF trigger beats the crap out of the quasi-MILSPEC LWRC trigger. There is no comparison. Lastly, the POF barrel is a true, match-grade fluted barrel. The entire POF package is a true sub-MOA gun, where the LWRC is more of a "battle rifle". If you're going to hunt or do some longer range shooting, the POF is a much more surgical tool than the LWRC. If you're running carbine classes and your gun is for more hard use, the LWRC is the better gun, IMO. Both rifles are heavy, especially when you add optics, a light, etc. I've "standardized" on the 1x/4x Elcan SpecterDR for most of my rifles, which weighs as much as a Prius, and which is also why I rarely use either the POF or LWRC any more. I'm on a lightweight kick, and any rifle over 5.5 pounds is no longer on my radar.
Guinea worms
In POF-415 review you forget to tell about heat release “aliminium radiator” on the barrel end.
Also POF also allows to redesign in the field from semiautomatic to normal bolt rifle. However good overview of both rifles.
I have both pof recon 415 and the lwrc. My lwrc is an older model (m6a2).
I think the pof is more accurate, and is tad bit softer shooting. What I didn't like about my pof is the weight, and the rail is higher up. I feel the cheek weld on the stock is off, do to the rail height.
My lwrc is smoother, tad bit lighter, and feels solid.
If I had to choose one it would be my Lwrc, but i don't have to choose. on a side note, both need oil, and both can run without oil if needed.
This guy does not know what he is talking about for a few points. The POF has a mag release on BOTH sides sir. Second the POF also has bolt lock back both sides, better more is one lock back on side of rifle along with bolt lock back within the trigger guard itself. Further more he like the LWRC better when cleaning it, so he like to have to remove his sites first then, then the railing, then cleaning. Then putting rail back on and having to re-sight his scope. Hmmm. POF you can leave scope and railing on and just swith to pull out gas piston rod clean and put back in, period. Seems strange he gives his vote to the LWRC for being simple to clean. I can enjoy his comparison but if your going to make a youtube video about comparing the two shouldn't he make sure he is absolutely correct before saying false things Just saying.... POF if you have run one enough you know that LWRC doesn't have the reliability that the POF does. Running them I have had several jams etc with LWRC and never a single one with POF. Never. Lets see him drag a LWRC through the mud behind a four wheeler as has been done here on youtube and see that LWRC still run like a POF does. I don't see LWRC running 67,000 rounds down that chrome lined barrel as has been done with POF as well. But with all due respect sir, thank you for what you do.
I think he has an older version not the gen 4? Can't see the bolt catch in his POF.
also Daniel Defense are nice but compared to a POF there's just no reliability there ! and with the new Revolution every ER company is left in the dust now. POF is 100% the best rifle AR maker in the world.
Great job I enjoyed the entire video. Thanks for taking your time to put this up.
It's a mystery to me why you didn't simply slide the POF handguard off like you did with the lwrc. One screw, one piece, five seconds. Easier than with standard handguards, and a more robust system. Your review seems deliberately misleading for those who are unfamiliar with the firearm and don't have a manual handy as you did. If I'm going to criticize a product, I won't fabricate complaints out of thin air.
It was my understanding the permanent muzzle break was by federal law. I am unsure why this is a point of contention in this video
Great VDO. Thank you!
I have 4 piston AR's - 3 PWS & 1 Adams Arms.
P O F Beautiful Gun
Well I have mixed feelings about both the Weapons Systems as I own both of the LWRC M6 IC and the POF P 9 SX Rifles both in Caliber 5.56 NATO.
I like the Trigger in the POF Rifle because it is Crisp and Breaks Clean where as the LWRC Rifle does not, I like the Full Ambidextrous Control's on the LWRC M6 IC and the ease of getting to the Piston Assembly.
There are always going to be a difference of Opinions on both the LWRC IC & POF Rifles in my opinion they are Both Excellent Weapons Systems.
i like the pof billet lower vs lwrc forged lower. but i.also think the pof barrel might be better. more robust for sure
Went from a PSA to LWRC. Gosh the LWRC is such a nice rifle.
POF is a superior design, he was LWRC BIASEDfrom the begining. Why would disassembling a handguard to remove the piston system be easier than just removing the piston? If he wanted to remove the handguard all he had to remove was 2 screws just like the LWRC but unlike them the whole handguard comes out not just the top section. Why wouldn't he mention the heatsink on the POF the help cool the chamber (very useful to maintain accuracy and in full auto while preserving the life of the barrel) The one thing that LWRC has over the POF is the bolt carrier and its a slimmer profile other than that POF is a better design. BTW I own both well the older LWRC M6 with thicker handguards and the POF I find it to be superior in every way better trigger, better lower receiver, heatsinked chamber/barrel. LWRC well they get Government contracts which usually go to the lowest bidder nuff said.
I agree Ben.. I have the POF in 5.56 and .308 and they have been awesome. I have noticed that my .308 doesn't like the cheap PMC ammo though.
Well I haven't had any issues with ammo it might be the hole twist rate to weight ratio a lot of people don't know the tables then wonder why they get keyholes on paper or no paper at all. The twist affects the spin of the bullet thus degrading the accuracy of the system.
Ben Delgado III No problems with accuracy just the .308 stovepipes with PMC ammo. It's 147 grain and it seems that the ammo isn't hot enough to push the bolt carrier back with enough force to eject the shells very far. I will have 1 to 2 stovepipes out of each 20 round magazine when using PMC ammo. Other ammo like FGGM, Hornady, PPU all run fine.
Have you tried changing the buffer to a lighter one? Other than that next thing would be a lighter BC or just sticking to what works and avoid the other stuff.. I don't have the 308, So its totally beyond my scope.
For now I'm just going to stick to the better ammo just wish I could use it because it was pretty cheap for .308 ammo. You know what they say Cheap in Cheap out. However, My .223 POF has cycled everything flawlessly.
I sold my POF 415 and purchased an LWRC IC SPR in FDE for $1.95K
Fantastic review. Very thorough and nicely done
I purchased POF minuteman last year
And i had problems with it out the box
It was impossible to zero it
No matter what ammo, or how i adjust the scope
Later i noticed that the cases were flying out in different directions ( instead of flying in 3-o’clock position)
The same scope was switched back to my first ar that I had , and you gonna laugh
It was Black Rain Ordnance
It was shooting 1 moa groups right away
While pof could not hit a shit at 50 yards
I sold both of them
Got LWRC
And it was best decision I made
Just wanted to share my experience
That’s interesting, i know my p415 is a tackdriver but i also got one from 2011 before frank died and the company went towards lighter weight rifles. So their quality could be going down but i know the older pof’s are amazing little tanks.
@@bayouboys5008 and that’s what i heard about them, i was looking to buy reputable AR
But it didn’t turn out well
POF makes the best AR hands down
Russell Schaner POF does make a great rifle but I would rather have my Daniel Defense any day of the week over the POF
Mutilated Minds naw not even close. had more issues with my pof then my lwrc for sure
Tim Mason what sort of issues have you had? So far out of about 3000 rounds I have only had problems with extraction when firing steel case Wolf ammo. Once in a while I have failure to extract with TulaAmmo, but so far I haven't had a single issue with brass.
I have over 12k rounds through my Gen 3 POF that I use as a 3-gun rifle here in WV and it's amazing. Hands down, best AR I have ever shot. I'm about to pick up my new Gen 4 P415 and I cannot wait
Natalee Pellicciotti - The only thing that sucks about Daniel Defense, is it does not like steel case ammo. In a shit hits the fan situation, you want a rifle that will take that with no issues if that's all you have available
Would love an updated video on this comparison
Totally a bunch a BS. POF hand down out of the box you do not need to take apart anything it shoots accurate out of the box just throw some sights on it never a failure never a problem and oh yeah have not cleaned it yet and zero failures to date.
Unique377
Lol, he has an opinion. Just as you do. I know you regret getting the POF instead of the LWRC, but not need to lash out about it 😂😂
Ian Eggleston lmao 😂
plenty of fish?
Beryllium that's funny I have a POF rifle and I met my wife on Plenty of Fish
Pof is the superior rifle, if it's too heavy then you need to hit the gym
POF 415 Gas Piston AR15
POF ALL DAY
This guy is a LWRC fan boy. The POF, especially the Gen 4, is one of the finest AR systems ever made. The POF is revolutionary people. This guy fails to mention numerous details on the POF, some being game changers. The last LWRC I owned was a M6A2, it was a really fine tool. The POF is supreme, do your own research and go shoot both for yourself.
Isn't the m6a2 a older model? Don't believe it has any of the features the m6IC has other than it's piston driven.
Between the pof and a lmt mars L piston love the lmt but hate the short ass rail
Thank you this is very detailed I'm leaning towards a lwrc just found out about it
Tou Xiong did you get your LW CR if you did did you like it I bought the POF Revolution and his baby sister that p415 and I just got the drd Tactical 338 Lapua
POF's are heavy. I keep mine because it's accurate and easy to clean. If you want put anything but a small red dot on your AR I would look at a lighter rifle.
how would you say POF stands up against LMT piston rifles ?
Great review
u can take off the rail on the pof. its a muzzle break not a flash hider
POF-USA P308 FA -- Performance Demo
lwrc all the way
Very in depth...Thanks!
It's never a good idea to choose your weapon systems based on what our military is using. They choose their systems based on reliability and performance, yes, but there is also bureaucratic problems. The military purchases mass quantities of each weapon system and cost is a major factor, mobility is a factor and all the politics, contracts and logistics come into play and hinder the military from using the absolute most effective equipment possible for the job that needs to be done.if you want the best references and the best suggestions for weapons system, you need look at the competition world and the 3-gun world. Those guys shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year and they know what is reliable and what is the latest and greatest systems and accessories. LWRC and Patriot Ordnance both have battle-proven records and no one can dispute that. Patriot leans more towards the law enforcement side and lwrc leans more towards military, both U.S. and militaries of other countries. So, you can't go wrong with either. I personally lean towards LWRC. I have a lot of their rifles in 5.56 & 7.62X51. Ive recently bought a POF 308 & 7.62x39. Im still on the fence if their proprietary roller cam pin chewed up my LWRC's upper receiver or not. But just as a rule of thumb never trust the government to get the job done in the most effective way, there's always going to be bureaucratic bullshit involved lol
M6IC has a different recoil spring which is far less susceptible to deformation. I've never heard of rod deformation.
The new gen. is easy to take off the hand guard t get to the rest of the system. POF is a wonderful rifle.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. Do you run a suppressor on your LWRC? I have one coming in the next couple weeks and am excited.
Thanks for the great review.
Awesome comparisons!
That two piece handguard for the LWRC does not look very durable or as bomb proof as the POF
I own both. Love both.
Thank you 😊
Glad to see that weapon techs have no say in what we are issued, otherwise all our kit would be oriented towards their needs and not our (the users) needs. To buy a rifle that is more expensive, has more parts, weighs more, does the same job a DI gun does because ''it is easier to clean'' is mostly a silly thought.
I have a Gen 3 p415 with a 14.5 inch Barrel
Thank you for this video
Really informative video . Thank you 🎉Have Bless Day 🎉
Does the gas piston setup have a slower recoil/feeding process compare to the DI
If there is i barely notice it
why doesn't your ic have spiral fluting?
OH NO. NO BACKUP SIGHTS?
Where do you want your dog to crap. Lol. Best explanation I've heard.....
Both are great guns but the LWRC is the superior rifle.
Which one would you want if you could only have one?
Pof
@@bayouboys5008 I ended up with a Sig patrol in .308.
Any one have a lwrc ic pdw yet. I want to get one but there a lot of money and I have to wait to see if I get my c&r. Any one has one to sell let me know
Even though the right side doesn't release the bolt its is actually ambidextrous the left side is actually milled into the side instead of a screw on tab like lwrc. Also no springs in the piston and I'm pretty sure if you were to buy a model in the same price range it will be fully ambi. And pof doesn't need anti tilt bolt carrier because they have an anti tilt buffer tube. Finally lwrc is chrome lined =less accurate. Pof is nitride heat treat. (Case hardened) more durable more accurate.
Ryan Pannell Then why do the POF barrels in our gun rental range burn out twice as fast as the Colts? Hmmmmmm
+chad haire I'm calling be. put 70k through yours and come compare it to mine. colt? who's that?
+Ryan Pannell Your English sucks and your piston LWRC or POF will never make it to 70K
+chad haire I wouldn't call a one letter typo my english. shit bag. and pof already has a .308 documented with 70k through it on full auto. Why don't you look down the barrel next time yoh play with it?
+Ryan Pannell DOCUMENTED? BY who--funny you don't mention. LOL
Will either of uppers fit a mil spec lower?
Yes
What is the best 308 ammunition to use with the LWRC Repr?
Monarch is very good especially for the price
Clean and accurate. Better then pmc.
Hornady gives me 1moa at 300yds.
What do you want to do? For 225-5009 yards I used mil surplus from Hiertenbergee, Magtech 7.62X51 .and Federal, they're all 145-170 I believe. Going out further I used a few brands of high end 168 & 175 grain like Hornady, Federal, ADI, a few others.
These comments: "The POF is better meow meow meow."
Cons:
It weighs more.
You can't remove the handguard.
It's harder to clean.
It isn't fully ambidextrous.
The bore-sight distance is higher.
It's bulkier.
Pros?
It comes with a better factory trigger that's harder to replace if you don't like it.
how would it be harder to clean when you dump it all out the front WITHOUT taking the top half off the fore arm? just asking. wondering
my pof is actually ambi. its all milled into the reciever. the lw has a screw on tab put on the piece that's always been there
Ryan Pannell
Because you're having to dump everything out and shift the rifle around instead of unscrewing two things with your hand.
And if your POF is fully ambi, then it isn't this rifle.
+LastCasualty I'm assuming your replying to something about the piston system? which wouldn't have anything to do with it being ambidextrous. read what you write compared to what your replying to doesn't make any sense. no offense but try again.
Ryan Pannell
*You posted two comments, I replied to both. I didn't say anything about an ambi piston.*
I will stick with DI system they are quieter by the nature of the mechanism venting gas to the environment makes it loader.
Want a cookie?
wow, if he can't tell a AAC Blackout flash hider I not doubt most of what he just said... LWRC uses a AAC Blackout on the IC.
... and nooooow ... back to the makeup tips ...