"Not So Duty Proven" Enclosed Emitter Fiasco
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- In this Initial Thoughts Hatchet Cast episode Eric & Roy discuss the problems plaguing the enclosed emitter optics and share their experiences with these new up and coming "Duty Proven" optics. Best three ways to support us is to come train with us, pick up some gear from our website and from our affiliates using the links and codes below. Make sure you follow Barrel & Hatchet on our other social media platforms to stay up to date on what is happening in the Barrel & Hatchet community. Welcome to Barrel & Hatchet Trade Group.
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The closed emitter saga has been a wild ride so far
Have you run into any problems with closed emitters?
@@C0ochieMeat i doubt most people have even had problems with OPEN emitters
Well like always I am a day late and dollar short but I want to give a thumbs up for the weird leupold delta micro I’ve edc it on a 19x now for a year, probably only got bout 700rds though it, but I am a farm mechanic ,so you can only imagine the hell my edc gear is put through, it’s been dropped for more than 24” twice now once down concrete steps it’s odd to get used to the tiny little window but I found it helps cure some of my drawing mechanic that were pretty terrible now that little cap hanging off the back can be a pain but I ain’t seen one that has aluminum threads that ain’t a pita, oh and I zeroed the thing last year, when we got our rights back here in indianer and until last week I was a one carry gun fella, went from zero Glocks and no interest in a Glock to I have a 19x (op lunchbox dyed the grip purple)& a 20 g5 mos (the dark brick)that’s too bland have to work on the name 😂 have great day all by😎
Hi, as an engineer in aerospace, hermetic seals to keep water out are very difficult and don't tend to hold up long under "duty environment." So, I have been watching a lot of the battery life & other claims and wondering how realistic the testing & claims are. Plus how many G you get in a drop or banging into a door OR just from transferred impulse from rounds.
There are a bunch of hermetic seals that last a long time but they are HEAVY and larger gasket materials but everything has some kind of MTTF (mean time to failure) and in the case of the hermeticity, it is low. Additionally everything leaks at some rate, some are just really low. We had to do stuff like fine & gross leak in special chambers after sealing in nitrogen purge environment via laser sealing. That is without the complication of glass on the module.
Kind of expect you should figure on a 3-5 year life to site and possibly the pistols as well. Compromises on life to get performance.
your experience and knowledge are appreciated by the community!@@jamesnewman5426
Coming back to this video at the 1 year mark with my 509t mounted on my PDP. Around 6k rounds on it now, sub zero shooting, 90+ degrees, rainy and snowy and it’s holding up just fine. Hoping it stays that way
same i love the 509t i dont want it to die lol
For once, I don’t feel bad about having a 507 ACSS on my G19x 😅
where to buy?
@@lithium1770 optics planet
@@lithium1770primary Arms
The 507s are a heck of a dot. Love mine
@@lithium1770optics planet, primary arms etc. Quick Google search holosun 507 ACSS should show you a few options
I’ve got 3 acros, and I shoot at least once a week. Two of them has got heavy use, they look like something from an apocalypse game, but they work flawlessly even in the winter and snow. My 3rd acro haven’t seen that many rounds yet. I definitely trust them.
I just put an acro on my pdp pro and I’m loving it so far. now I’m looking forward to trying the Trijicon RCR.
same here have had P2 for 2yrs with 2k+ rounds on it now, I've flown with it and it still is running great.
Location? High humidity?
Sweden, so yeah, terribly@@Whitetail55
Now the 3rd acro has seen a lot more rounds, and a winter being thrown in the snow and a little more abuse. Still no issues. I also got a 4th that hasn't seen as much abuse yet.
And this is why I'm not an early adopter. I dont wanna pay to beta test someone's product.
Cough SIG cough… beta testing for years
r/sigsauer for the real COPE experience.
Boom exactly. And even when you have a seasoned company, you still need to do your own QC
Yo, this could have been a 4 minute video.
@@goatismynamethis coulda been a 0 word comment
Hey guys I think I might have an idea as to why they fail. My thoughts are based on these three things. Chassis flex, gasket integrity, and interior coatings. The Enclosed Emitters are different from their big-boy rifle counterparts because the emitter rides on the slide. My feeling is this is causing the chassis to flex and lose gasket integrity. When the gasket is compromised dust and moisture get in because the nitrogen escapes and pulls dust in as it leaves. The dust now coats the inside of the glass and moisture loves dust. I had a similar issue with my broadcast lens. Vibrations in transport (even if in a padded case) can lead to gasket failure and once that happens the lens will be forever compromised.
This is great info.
I firmly agree with your statement about gasket integrity. I had a Steiner mps completely fail on me and when Steiner replaced it they added a much larger gasket to the rear lens.
Not chassis flex. The issue is the violence of riding on the slide, the repeated shocks to the internals. The housing isn't going to flex significantly if engineered even half-arsed. The lens-to-housing fit may have tolerance issues under slide cycle violence, but that would be assuming the engineers didn't realize the optic was reciprocating violently on the slide.
If none of these factors were properly considered already, most RDS on slides would fail quite early.
I think you're correct that it has to do with being mounted to the slide, and the ensuing violent reciprocations that shock the internals.
@@seanoneil277 repeated shocks to the internals are causing it to allow moisture in? I think the other guy's explanation was a lot more reasonable
@@rondobrondo Obviously, the repeated shocks will exacerbate any sealing issues. The specific mechanics of what is happening is up for debate. We still don't know if some of these optics are shipping with marginal seals that would have opened up with temperature and moisture cycles regardless.
My personal opinion is that most of the optics are about 2X more expensive than they should be considering the shitty QC and engineering that's behind them. However, the market will view a more expensive optic as being more premium. So, you simply increase the price of the optic, promise a lifetime warranty, and just crank out dots as fast as possible while handling warranty claims for the tiny percentage of shooters who actually spend time shooting.
“Brands don’t have to own up to their mistakes because of brand loyalty…” *coughs in Sig Pistols* *coughs in SureFire*
Wait what did surefire do I missed it ?
@@jamfd3s788apparently his broke. Don’t worry about Surefire. My poor X200 keeps wishing I would let it die
EOTech is #1 in this arena.
@@jamfd3s788not sure, but they definitely overcharge for their pistol lights when streamlight offers the same quality product for half the cost
I've had several fail not the super high end models cause I can't drop that kind of cheddar. But lots if dudes swear by these 300 dollar lights and they fail. To me a light as long as it is reputable is good I run olight and thrunight and they have never failed me. They are a 1/3 the price of the average surefire.
It's way overated.... I've shot open emitter in snow & rain & didn't have an issue... one shot shakes it off😂
Wow! I appreciate this info from a different “AO”. I am on the coast. I have P1 and P2 and use it for maritime and rural ops- real world. I have 20k plus rounds through both. I have had zero issues.
My opinion is the humidity and temp change vs moisture from A/C to outside is a great QC for how the enclosed emitters are “enclosed”.
Thanks for this info 🇺🇸🏴☠️👍🏻
I wonder how the new Trijicon RCR will be in this situation.
G45 w/509T v2 (EDC). Over 4k rounds in last 6 months, all outdoors at ares training facility northeast of JTAC. Zero issues so far🤞🏼
Same setup lol
@@assclapper2231 you’re probably right lol. I shoot in the rain all the time but that’s not the same as taking it for a swim or wading through water. I guess I gotta up my training haha
@@assclapper2231 to be fair these gents in the video are not talking about getting them wet or anything else just going from a/ced truck to outside or a/ced building to outside and doing range sessions and it is repeatedly failing. it makes me wary of the 509t because that is what i am looking at for my 1301 so i have both irons and a red dot option.
My 508t loses zero or won't turn on after a defensive course in the rain
Hey guys, big issues to report here.
This past Saturday I attended the Sweating bullets biathlon shooting competition at 17 south gun club in Georgia. My EPS full size MRDS and multiple 509t's ALL failed catostrophically by moisture getting into the button cover during the competition, thus both frying the electronics as well as filling the internal walls of the glass with water droplets/moisture. We all noticed that the button covers either came delaminated slightly during the comp or were potentially not glued on properly from factory. All failed handgun optics were protected by safariland 6390rds and 6360rds holsters when not in use, mine being in a 6360rds.
To be fair, it was an absolutely nightmarish ordeal. Overall run was ~3.8 miles. 93 F° not including heat index throughout the whole day. 7 shooting stages both handgun and rifle. Running course called for total submergence up to the chest/shoulders into literal Georgia swamp mud water at least 3 times WITH mandatory army crawls through sugar sand at one point while being sopping wet and covered in mud. There were quite a few times I had to traverse pluff mud that came up to my waist line. Sad to see that it seems the Holosun enclosed emitter hype train couldn't survive some heat and mud.
To be fair, these were extreme conditions for these optics to survive in. I only wish I knew someone with an Acro P2 to find out if it survived the test.
My acog TA02 and piggy back 508t absolutely crushed it with zero failures.
This is kinda wild. I also live in GA and my 509T has been in over 100 degree temps on a regular basis. Especially last year for that 1 week of 100 degrees. Not a single issue. Even when the weather is in the upper 90s, I haven’t experienced this. Now to be fair: I’m not doing what you’re doing here either. I’m surprised actually
That sounds like a miserably fun event lol, we have a 5k / 10k shooting event like that here next month. I have in the past had holosun fail on me as well it was a full size rifle optic a 512, the fully enclosed rifle mailbox style red dot. They replaced it under warranty but it has left a bad taste for holosun with me unfortunately. I'm giving the 515 a try now. I can't speak to the handgun optics though since I run irons on my main go to sidearm.
Well this is “torture test” for you and your gear, but that’s what these things are suppose to last through….. throwing it off a building or slamming the optic into my tailgate not so much. But just high temps, water exposure mud, all that in your competition there it should certainly live through if it is duty rated, that is standard duty use.
Now years and years of that failing understandable but not one day
Sounds like the heat, vibrations, additional heat from shooting the gun, rapid cool down by submerging the optic, it all feeds into the housing flex theory. Heat and vibration will cause expansion, cooling causes contraction. The gaskets and adhesives simply fail to remain sealed.
I think whether we call this "torture testing" or "regular usage" depends on the end user. For a typical American CCW guy or a patrol cop I would say this is torture testing. For a run'n'gun competitor, I would call it standard usage. For military use, I would also call this standard usage. I have patrolled through plenty of waist deep swamps, been rained on then sugar cookied with moondust, sweated on my gear so much that I looked like I had been submerged in water, and operated in environments that exceeded 120F or -20F for extended periods; not to mention parachuting or fast roping where you and your gear smash into the ground if you have a bad landing (or sometimes any landing), getting submerged in water or swamp mud for any of a million reasons, or guys falling off stuff like trucks, roofs, caving ladders, etc. So again...really depends on the end user.
I've been watching this closed emitter hype and just thinking to myself that two pieces of glass doubles the failure risk.
kinda like 2 hands, and 2 feet ☠
@@brighthought11you thought you said something there, didn't you?
@@nionology made you reply, didint you?
And to add,
As with arctic warfare, when warming up, you never bring your blaster into a tent with heat or by the fire because the lense will take 60+ mins to acclimate=fog.
I believe this is the same in reverse.
As for lenses popping off, that may be a max temp issue.
All in all , I hope manufacturers see this.
So you’re saying in “artic warfare” say like fighting in Ukraine in the snow. If you travel to outside in the snow and then have to go clear a building. You need to leave the weapon or optic outside and go clear with a knife or find a weapon in the building and just leave your weapon outside the building if it’s heated?? I’m sure that’s fine if you’re playing at a range in the winter lol we coyote hunt through the winter and even with night vision electronic optics and some guys running regular scopes and I carry a Xdm 10mm with a eps out in sub 0 temps then in a heated truck that 70-80 degrees and haven’t had any issues lmao
@@ktmdevonYou’re trying so hard to be dumb and none of us know why
My only enclosed emitter optic is a Eotech Exps3-2 fairly durable!!!
I’ve shot 2-3 thousand rounds in about a year with my Holosun 509T. I live in Minnesota and shoot outside in extreme cold and hot humid days and light rain and have had 0 issues with my 509. I also love the ACSS reticle that it comes with off Primary Arms. I recently got a Holosun EPS so I hope i have a similar experience
You have the 509 with ACSS? I was looking at that one because I like my 507c ACSS Vulcan.
@@hardcore4476 yes it has the ACSS which I love. And since that post if shot a couple thousand more rounds with 0 issues
@@Zach-oc9nh Sweet, glad to hear it!
I didn't know that the 509T has an ACSS varient. Who sells it? Primary Arms??
Love the fact that you guys said you actually put some work in with the optics. Most people buy them , never use them and will argue with you to death that they are best just to justify their purchase
9 months late to this post - At 3:55 you mentioned the story about a LEO friend who said they had MULTIPLE Acro models being shipped overstate that ended up with damaged glass. I'm all about keeping an open mind, accepting there isn't perfection in any single brand or design, and know full and well some companies will have a QC slip up eventually..... BUT - multiple duty guns with the same optic being shipped together suddenly getting cracked glass? And of all brands, Aimpoint? They are no slouch when it comes to quality.
So IF the story is true, we really need some stipulation. Like did the agency in question do a bulk purchase and end up with consecutive models from the same batch? If not, we get further from reality and sh*t doesn't usually happen back to back in one place like that, to ANY optic.
I'm at a point in my collection where I own and appreciate a variation of pistol RDS's from multiple brands, so I'm really trying to approach claims like this with a scientific method mindset. Any further follow ups or testimonies from students, friends, fellow trainers, anybody would be great.
I use and trust my life with my 508Ts. I've gone through many different red dots and broke a few as well. The ones that just keep going are always my 508Ts. That's what I have on my service pistol and that's what I have on my bedside pistol. I actually have 7 of them on various pistols and one on my rifle as a 45 degree offset. I have a bunch of the 507Cs as well but I've broken a couple of the glass lenses. The 508T just keeps going. I love them.
Love the 508T. My previous RM06 on daily carry was completely corroded from my sweat. Switch to titanium 508T and it holding up brilliantly
I’ve heard that from instructors that that’s the most rugged reliable red dot that they’ve witnessed over any other optic.
My 508t loses zero or does not turn on after a defensive course in the rain
Sold me on it… I’ve been on the fence
My halosun eps carry randomly stoped working after like 6 months no low battery warning
Whoa! Thanks for sharing that, we will keep an eye on ours
Turns out it was just a bad battery got it fixed today
@@Cheapfreezedriedcandythanks for the update,
They all fail ,given enough time under usage. They are man-made ,its normal . The problem comes from how good of a QC one brand has over the other, under the pressure to put out enough offerings to meet the demand 🤷♂. The other side of the problem - the brand loyalists (the fanboys) and, the "influencers" ,over different medias, over-hyping - from there giving a false image from one brand to another. Not to say that there is no difference in quality - but - they all fail in time
i will only buy closed emitters because cleaning normal red dots us a huge pain in the ass and i can never get em 100 percent clean. enclosed ones you just wipe the back glass and youre done. you also get peace of mind.
Almost like youre talking about isolated issues with overall pretty tough products 🤔. Smells very similar to "my Eotech died. These things are all trash."
That said, i only have about 4k on my p2 and I dont think thats a particularly high round count.
I have a Steiner MPS. I use mine in a duty capacity. During training, I purposely put my tools through some serious abuse. No complaints on my end. I do trust my tools if my life depends on them. 🤙🏼🇺🇸
How's the battery life ? I'm hearing mixed reviews
@@Gospeed777 this would be my only complaint is that the battery life sucks. My battery lasted me 4 months before I ended up changing it out. I than put a fresh battery, and it been around 7 months ish, it’s still working… But let’s see.
Had a Holosun eps when it first came out, it failed within the first 50 rounds. Just stopped working. Holosun sent me a new optic and i ended up selling it and the gun it was on.
The closed emitters are really new, with on-pistol optics being new in general. In previous eras, electronic optics on pistols were affixed to static mounts over the slide. Having something big mounted on the rear of the slide and subjecting it to the tilting barrel recoil is a lot of Gs for such a small item with electronics, especially sealed items.
Holosun 509t on G19. Around two years and 10 to 15k rounds no any problem. Now it sits on 45deg on AR15 for like one year and no issues. On G19 is now EPS. Maybe 4k rounds and no problem. All year long. Europe. Winter, summer, rain.
Why are all these guys clones of each other.
Baseball hat, check.
Beard, check.
Logo t-shirt, check.
Bunch of tattoos that you picked out of a catalog, check.
You guys need black wrap around shades to complete your costume.
We are working on ot
It
3 months prior to this video closed emitters were the future and #Trijicon needed to step it up... lol
If enclosed emitters weren't that good, why are the majority of rifle optics enclosed? I currently have a 509T, two EPS optics and one EPS Carry in CA. I'm also in LE but have not switched to a dot for duty yet. The ACRO P2 was recently approved for duty but only 1 officer at my work has one and he's an instructor.
Non issue. These guys had one lemon out of hundreds of thiusands. Good content generetetor idea tho
Ask trijicon RCR owners. Trijicon let everyone release theirs then said, okay now here’s ours.
I haven't even used my holosun 509t, just stayed in a safe and still the center dot stopped working. Only the big circle works now. Lol
There's not a scope I have that don't don't fog up when going from the ac to the Texas summer heat and humidity that didn't fog up, this includes my acog, accupoints, leatherwood. So, idk about everyone else, but the fog proof claim they make is total bs.
Real question; what's wrong with open emitters? How often do they actually fail? I've never had the mythical lint/dust/water drop obscure my open emitter, nor have I had any real condensation issues. Are closed emitters just a marketing scam to charge more to solve a problem that doesn't exist? RMRs have been on top of ACOGS for decades without failure issues, why the push for close emitters?
I have a P2 with 4.5k rounds through it. It made it through winter in North Dakota with temps as low as -25°, and going from that temp to heated trucks and home with minor fogging that cleared up almost immediately and was usable the entire time. I’ve been in and out of vehicles from cold A/C to over 90° several times this summer. I’m not sure why you’re having issues.
I was told by many internet experts that my RMR was shit because it was an open emitter.
During testing of the Holosun EPS for my agency, 4 out of 5 of our test optics failed submersion tests and had moisture intrusion inside the optic.
Every single one of these closed emitter optics is getting their ass kicked by moisture. Every. Single. One. I just don't trust the design on a pistol.
or I love the one, RMR is trash and Holosun is superior because every couple years you have to take an RMR off and replace a battery OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN FOR THE MOFO HILLS!
I've also seen ACOGs fail with their seal. There isn't anything wrong with the concept of enclosed emitters, just the execution currently, which will only be improved upon over time. I was at a match where the rain and humidity was intense enough that EVERY open emitter became totally unusable. Both have liabilities and limits, open just seem to have more liabilities for now. I am every day carrying an EPS carry now and using it for monthly comps, will have to see how it does long term.
How’s that EPS Carry holding up 11 months later?
@spindoggytheexplorer2915 Fantastic, me and a couple buddies with them have no complaints, and I personally carry every day and have done a half dozen or so pistol and multigun matches with it. The battery last longer that I would have thought for the smaller battery, about 6 months. Tempted by the new sig one tho...
Aimpoint doesnt purge. They are assebled in humid free environment.
HMM if that is a fact that is very interesting
@@barrelandhatchet If there is a leak it doesn´really matter if its purged or assembled in humid free environment. It will just fog up.
Probably cheaper to purge them than to make sure the humidity is 0% in the assembly area.
I have a 509T, a EPS carry & a new RCO, no issues
Thank you for continuing to bring feedback from the range to a wider audience. Some of the premium brands have gotten too accustomed to having smoke blown up their asses, when in reality they are one to two generations away from losing their pedigree to other companies.
Slide mounted is a lot like an airgun or a SCAR- you're getting impact in both directions . Closed emitters have more critical parts to move.
I thought the ACRO P-2 underwent R&D testing on a SCAR itself- one of the hardest recoils IMHO.
Waiting for Holosun to come out with a EPS SCS MOS.
Riding a slide is a brutal ask of any piece of electronics, I’m surprised any of these RDS’s survive getting shitwhipped 1k times
Sounds like a RCR preamble video LOL
Any updates coming on those Enclosed Dots yet
I bought an ACRO P2 about 4 months ago and mounted it on a Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol 12 gauge. I have about 2000 rounds of 00 buck and maybe 100 Federal slugs through that gun... I regularly take that gun inside and outside to shoot. So far, I haven't seen anything funky. It's possible that Aimpoint has worked out the issues with this, but I will update if it fails in the future.
You had one acro p2 fail, and hearsay of a few others? I'm no mathematician but I don't think that's a large enough sample size to draw a conclusion.
You don’t need to be a mathematician to know when people overreact to a sample of one.
Aimpoint does have a 10 year warranty on regular use and 2 year on professional/competitive. So there’s that.
That is good to know
I owned two ACRO P2s and both manifested dust inside rear lens after shooting... sold both of them.. and I'm back to Trijicon RMR :)
I have both P1 and P2 both have had some sort of small lint particles inside which I think it got stuck inside during being put together at the factory my P2, a piece of small particle appeared after shooting on the front glass after examination determined it was just a piece of white fabric, but it wasn’t in a spot on the front glass to where it would bother me so I continue to shoot now it’s completely gone more than likely fell down and got wedged in between something so it doesn’t really concern me too much now my P one I have a piece of small strand of fabric stuck to the back glass that’s being pretty stubborn and not wanting to drop free but again, I just deal with it. It doesn’t really bother me too much.
Great, I just put an Acro on work gun. The thing is that this is the second generation of the Acro. The issues should of been worked out, especially from a company like aimpoint.
Sweet just ordered arco p2,see how goes lol 😂
Nice video and relevant topic. I've been using a Holosun 509T now for about a year. I live in Houston and have done countless transitioning between A/C and triple digit temps during shooting sessions. So far so good with no problems due to internal fogging. However, total round count is only around 1,200 rounds. We'll see what the future holds.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am in North Texas and recently started using a Holosun HS507C on a PSA Dagger and both ran great in a RMR class (600+ rnds in 2 days).
I spent enough time in the manufacturing world to NOT buy the latest and greatest, 1st generation products. I hear my words from you all, as I typed my comments...lol I am waiting for the close emitters.
Parts falling off... Sounds like someone did not use Loctite or the like.
You all do live in an extreme environment with heat and humidity...It is a good place to test things!!!
I have a Sig P320 with over 3000 rounds through it that has seen daily use. The Holosun EPS Carry MRS (Green) mounted on it has had no problems, and this is in SoCal. I have a second one with about 2000 rounds that hasn't had any issues, but it is a backup. I plan on eventually trying the new Trijicon RCR since I've never had any issues with my RMRs.
Rcr is solid, i have been carrying it for 4 months now. I also live in socal. Its been carried daily on my stacatto cs, about 1,500 rounds so far. Its built like a little tank. I dont know what the difference in materials exactly are but when u hold the rcr it feels bomb proof premium and my holosuns eps and eps carry feel more toy like. The holosuns havent failed me yet but there is a difference in material with trijicon, and rcr gets brighter for sure. I did have an issue once with a holosun 507c
Thank you both so much for honesty! I'm actually tired of all the "marketing" most UA-camrs do for these companies. I absolutely appreciate the honesty!
Not had 509T fail and own several, and My Romeo2 when through a competition in Hill Country Texas during a storm and did not get moisture sealed hood.
I have a Steiner MPS on my rifle and two pistols. Battery life is crap when left in always on
1 1/2 yrs on setting 6 constantly on. Great glass, durable. I'm fine with changing my battery on my birthday annually. Have it mounted on my Benelli M4 using an ADM titanium mount. I have absolutely no complaints.
I have a P2 on one of my rifles with about 500 rounds. Not a ton of rounds but I live in Michigan and its seen 10 degrees in the winter and 95 degrees 100% humidity in the summer. So far no issues but I need to put more rounds through it.
P2s will finally be in stock
I've had a 509T on my Gen IV Glock 20 since Holosun released it, I carry it daily (yes, I carry a full-sized 10mm Glock every day even in the summer), have over 7K rounds through the pistol with the optic on it and have never had one single issue with the optic. I have the same optic with less rounds on it on my Glock 40MOS that I carry in the backcountry/hunting and it's been flawless as well.
Glad to know you have had good luck with it.
is the EPS still working?
These optics are either Not being Nitrogen Purged correctly/Not holding its seal … or … Not being purged at all!
I would imagine the seal is what's most important
I think the Steiner MPS is the only dot that i have yet to read people having issues with. Anybody in the comments have any bad experiences? Considering either the P2 or MPS for a cowitnessed red dot on a 1301
Same here. I found more reports online of the p2s with condensation on the inside, one that got water on the inside, and a couple of shattered ones. There is a UA-cam video where the inside of an Acro p2 is completely shattered, and the outside is okay. But I have only seen people have problems breaking the screw when mounting the Steiner and one case of a screw coming out on the inside. Other than that, I cant find any other Steiners failing.
@@SigM1811old post but update for anybody reading in the future... Ordered a RCR. If I have any issues I'll post them
I bought a Holosun EPS carry that failed on me on the 3rd month. One day i looked through it and it was off. I assumed it was the battery so I switched it but nothing. After a few days of trying to get it back on i sent it in to Holosun. They fixed whatever was wrong with it but didn’t tell me what the problem was. Turnaround time was quick as well, took about a week and Its been working great since. I really like the EPS line but that experience left me a little uncomfortable to say the least.
So Holosun eps 2moa fot only on a Shadow Systems.
Total time 3 months.
State: Missouri
Avg temps: high 90s with 80%+ humidity
Inside building temp 69°
I use a safarland 6354do go in and out of building 1-2 hundred times a day.
Work shift is 14 hours
7 days a week for past month 5 days a week 2 months prior
Has been rained on, mud has gotten on the face of the first glass, tossed while in holster attached to belt lots.
Shot 200 rounds each week until i started 7 days a week work.
Overall solid no issues.
I do have 2 507c.
1 is first gen
1 is x2
0 issues with 1st gen, had glass fall out of x2
I like the low profile unique mounting 90deg screws used on the new trijicon but want it in green and acss vulcan. And DEFINITELY not fog up with water
so far so good on my 509t's....but makes me wonder. Ive been setting up a rds on top of one of my lpvo's and trying the steiner mps
And what yall are saying is the very reason i keep back up irons. Ive been seeing this crazy thing of people doing iron sight deletes and it terrifies me. Tech fails sometimes and id prefer to be prepared rather draw and be shocked.
Rm06 all day.
I’ve always purposely not purchased anything for at least two yrs after release. Engineers are a precious breed. It can look good on paper to hell and back but nothing “proves” out a product like everyday use.
This. I have bought some new stuff and regretted it after realizing that it wasn’t up to par. A lot of brand trusting that I had before, with good reason, has bitten me in the ass. We’ll see now with trijicon’s new pistol dots, but I’m honestly looking into just keeping my rmr because that has yet to fail
yup, i feel the same way. as long as i don't hear any major issues in the next year, im probably gonna pull the trigger on one of those acog 4x scopes.
Im running an EPS carry, worked well so far. Would like to see yalls updated review as i dont get to put as many rounds on it as i would like.
Florida Man: 1 - Closed Emitter: 0
My ACRO P2 I bought in December 2022. It sits on my staccato P that is also my duty weapon. So far so good. Also know of a swat leader in the metro that had a P2 that is going back for moisture getting in. Has me nervous but I hope mine keeps ticking
Only have 1 closed emitter, an original Holosun 509T Red dot, I have had it since a month after they dropped on my go to Glock 45 that I use for competition and carry. Realistically have 25k on the gun with that optic in MN/AZ during various seasons inside and outside. Mine hasn't failed or shown any signs of moisture however this is a single case. Ill be in Texas a lot more soon so ill be interested to see how it holds up to the generally higher levels of humidity there, but so far after thousands of reps and drawing from a Safariland holster, its holding up for me.
Had Acro P-2 for about a year now and have a few thousand rounds down range. Been solid
I dont have an enclosed emiter optic yet, but I do have a 507c thats been on 2 guns, a fnx45tac and a s&w 10mm with a total round count of aroud 5,000 between the two so far, no issues yet!
My theory
Most of the smaller dots have a gasket or glue that is between the glass and its anchoring point. The violent recoil patterns of the slide will eventually wear down the glue or gasket enough that under recoil, the positive pressure can bleed momentarily at the backwards stopping point of the slide before the spring carries the slide in the opposite direction because the jolting momentum allows the gasket/glue to be overruled by the positive pressure
I am a cop and have been using a 509T for approx 2 years now. It is kept inside for half the day at 65-70 degrees and then taken outside during 90-100 degrees everyday. The first year I had about 2-3k rounds through the optic. The battery began to drain itself after 2-3 weeks after ever battery change. I had to send it back. Got a new one and probably have another 2-3k rounds through it and no issues.
With that said I am switching my duty and off duty to a p-2. Time will tell if that is a good choice.
Dang, yeah that is def something that is common to something else we experienced
I have Holosun EPS's on three different handguns, each with 1000 to 1500 rounds with no problem. And I am in the same area as you.
I have been running a Holosun 509T (OG model not X2) on my main competition pistol (double stack 1911) for a couple of years now. I have a few thousand rounds through that gun since the optic was attached. I shoot matches throughout the year (spring/summer/fall/winter). I am not seeing any moisture ingress so far. However, I live in Utah where it is a pretty dry climate and the gun lives in a Vaultek Lifepod when it is not being used. I switched to an enclose emitter because it seems like every where I shoot is very dusty, I’m talking the awesome desert moon dust, and I was tired of my optic constantly being full of dust. I’m very happy so far.
Florida humidity is no joke. Polk county resident here. The Steiner MPS I've used as an offset rds for about 7 months, 4,500 rounds of 556 in 12 range trips.
Plenty of 509T being used by police departments as a duty optic today.
The reality is, all of these companies produce duds.
Whether it’s Trijicon, Aimpoint or Holosun.
We used to pay a premium price for peace of mind, but it doesn’t exist anymore.
We must vet each optic we deploy for use! It’s our responsibility!
Yep, you guys came to the same conclusion as me.
Couldn’t agree more. We have to test each product we put on our tools!
i have no experience with a closed emitter.
If he issues yes home it will be the future. However, the setbacks should be identified and fixed
Hmmmm... My HOLOSUN 509T keeps out rain for sure. I unknowingly dropped my pistol with the 509T in a kids's pool and about 30 minutes later "found" it. Absolutely no moisture in it.
My HOLOSUN AEMS cannot keep heavy rain from getting behind the protective clear lens caps BUT NO WATER GOT INSIDE THE LENSES. Although I had to totally disassemble my 9 mm RUGER PC chassis carbine to dry it off.
BTW, over 700 rounds, some P+P,, some +P and many 124 gr. NATO rounds with velocity between standard and +P through the RUGER PC and no problems with the AEMS.
Y’all are awesome! Love your classes! I would really love more testing and recommendations, I need a new duty optic and was about to get an Acro now I don’t know what to do so pleassse more closed emitter content and testing!
Thanks for the love Hermie and we hope to see you in class again soon merry Christmas and God bless you
Homie*
What’d he say @3:12 ? The 509t failed at 6mo? Or is he still talking about the ACRO p2?
How about the new Trijicon Rcr? Is that a better closed emitter for durability and reliability?
Surprised to hear you guys are having issues with the Acro P2. I have 7000 rounds through a Staccato P with an Acro P2 mounted. Zero issues so far.
From what I’ve read that EPS is gonna fail eventually too. I have high hopes for the Trijicon RCR. They make the highest quality stuff imo..
I’ve got about 2700 through the 509t on my 19x & probably 380” on a rifle with the 509t offset. Live in dusty west Texas, but shoot a decent bit in humid north & east Texas. Both have been fine, no moisture or dust. I’ve got maybe 1200 on a rifle with the MPS on top of my credo 2-10(thanks for recommending this thing, it’s nice so far). It been fine so far. Don’t like the lack of auto on. Was fine fine under nods.
Did break a SRO on its very first drop on my Shadow 2 from about 2.5’ high.
aimpoint products are complete utter junk; the company is run by people with H&K mentality. back in the day when we ran aimpoint products they tended to fail bad from double and triple dots under recoil to moisture in them to blinking off and on under recoil and mind you this m4/ar15 recoil. we tried comp m4/m4s, T-1's, comp m3's and all had some sort of problem or another and aimpoint could never seem to find a problem with them when we would send them in for repair.
got so tired of their trash being down, i was ordered to buy another product and fast with mounts. Went to trijicon and never looked back! their products are tanks and their customer service is unparalleled. We beat the crap of MRO's, RMR's and ACOG's back in the day and they just worked and loved it when you abused them.
Why are enclosed emitters the future on pistols? You are trading a fairly easily correctable failure mode (something gets on the emitter) for a catastrophic failure mode that requires a factory rebuild to correct (a seal on the enclosure fails). I don't see how this paradigm changes in the future.
Any update? I'd be curious to hear from y'all what dots have held up the best wether it's an open or closed emitter... I'm about to upgrade my carry setup and get my first pistol mounted dot and am trying to figure out of I should go open or closed... I'm a security guard and I'll be carrying concealed every day for my post. I'm in a pretty humid environment too. Thanks for putting this together, it's been helpful.
Thanks for your honesty and saving the public from spending on necessary money on false promises. Have you had any problems with the aimpoint pro. I think I’ll just stick with my holosun 510 C thank you.
I have not heard the whole episode yet... but in my experience closed emitter is considerably more reliable.
I have had dirt pack in my open emitter, I've had rain make my dot disappear.
I have 2 EPS, 1 with thousands of rounds, alot of open carry in rain and hot summer days, no problems so far
That sucks they are not exactly cheap and never mind to trusting your life to it part! Unacceptable!
So basically... what you're saying is... I'm not training enough cause my red dot hasn't broken... deal. Train until something breaks.
Crap wanting to get primary arms 509 with vulcan reticle enclosed now you got me concerned.
My 1st guess for the glass/rupture issue was its not as big as a scope or acog, so maybe the o-ring can't be as effective. The o-ring on my watch almost never gets a seal break, but its rx the size of my tiny pistol glass.