The Most Exciting PC Hardware in YEARS. - Frore AirJet Cooler
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
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It ain't much to look at but Frore System's Airjet cooling inventions could revolutionize PC cooling in the next few years. Here at Computex 2023, they're showing of a new version we've never seen before!
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips.com/topic/15101...
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
0:53 don't judge a book by its cover
1:41 Let's take it apart
3:21 Boundary Layers
4:20 How much cooling do you get?
5:19 Thermal Camera
6:13 Its 2nd big party trick
7:04 Dust resistance & why it's cool
8:58 How do they achieve this??
11:44 The downsides...
12:31 Frore's Roadmap
13:23 Other applications
14:19 What could this mean for the future?
16:45 Outro - Наука та технологія
Piezoelectrics can also convert vibration into current. Some snowboards in the '90s use them to convert chatter into lighting an LED on top of board
So like motors but vibration instead of rotation
That's how many acoustic electric guitars work
The general rule about electricity is: If a physical process causes a device to generate electricity, then you can use electricity to make the device generate the physical process.
A motor is just a generator in reverse (instead of spinning a magnet to produce electricity, you send electricity to a magnet to spin it)
A solar panel is just an LED in reverse (instead of sending electricity across a diode to make light, you send light across the diode to make electricity).
And so on
I thought it was emf
Musicians have known this for decades already lol
i can really tell linus is exited in the last 2 videos as he gets to take apart tech that he feels he should not be allowed to.
And what makes it even special is that he didn't drop any of it
@@hunde2430 All he had to do was drop 3 letters.
CEO
@@shadowminor lol
@@hunde2430 he's dropped many things over the years but I don't think he would give this job up just for the gadgets
I'm more impressed he didn't drop anything.
This was the sleeper hit at CES for me - so excited that they've actually started integrating it.
Ikr really excited to see where this tech could reach.
A $500 dollar fan product immediately went in the garbage dump. 🤣
What about dust, though
is this why linus looks like Willen Dafoe?
It's likely that they were already doing that with OEMs before the tech debuted at CES.
I'd LOVE to see this in a Steam Deck considering how "user friendly" it is to open an repair/swap things.. like I know it wouldn't be just a drop in thing and such but I think that be ridiculously sweet to attempt.
This is a great idea! I’d imagine the challenge in a DIY context would be the power adapters to the steam deck’s fan header in a tight space. But that doesn’t sound that hard honestly
Would love to see an LTT video about this!
How about putting these 4 Air jet pro’s in a Framework Laptop
@@N1gxtm4r3 I care more about the steam deck but also a great idea!
i imagine these piezos as final product like one part - maybe in form of a nvme ssd
but with two or four screws to apply thermal connection evenly.
so if it braked just unscrew it and replace it with a new one
with gpus you also can take off the entire cooling system
these sneaky asses already have a page on their website for handheld gaming using a steam deck as their example system!
it's only CGI renders, but they KNOW what people want these for already.
that's actually really exciting.
also these bastards trying not to say they want to make fans obsolete - their promo video for handheld gaming literally says they plan to make fans obsolete!
i see your sly game, frore! and i love it.
I can imagine this being used in multiple devices:
- VR Standalone Headset
- Handheld Consoles
- Smartphones
- Tablets
- Robot (I.E. Rombas and such)
- Laptops
And who knows? Maybe eventually even cooling Desktop CPUs and GPUs
I am imagining like a 500W RTX GPU right now with all the power of the chip unlocked because it's now fitted with a vapor chamber and like 8 of these things lol
If framework laptops start using these I'm 100% on board
@@Sora-zb8kv Framework air
Yes if they were in a dust free environment. The problem I see is these being dust magnets and being clogged up pretty quickly.
It absolutely could change desktop PCs. This thing could make ITX builds the norm, maybe even smaller
Can't wait to see this as an upgrade option in Framework laptops.
oh man this is going to be sweet
while watching, I imagined a 3D printed chasse that could be compatible with this new stuff in a month.
the community will just do it like that.
These things are set to completely revolutionize small format cooling for sure.
yeah... if it really works, I'm willing to pay a bit more for it.
@@acasualviewer5861it will work, as it is already working. The question is if the benefit will hold up in a real life scenario, i.e. what happens if the thing gets small dents in it? Or what happens in a high humidity environment? Etc
Also they could end up coating so much you'd rather get straight up a higher tier mainboard.
Cautious excitement is warranted tho
I am super jealous of these guys for coming up with something so effective, simple and elegant with a rather large market
They didn’t invent it. They did refine it enough to mass market it though. I saw a very janky version on a laptop prototype a decade ago. Still, they did fantastic work and I’m excited to see this finally take off.
@@HydratedBeans so they’re licensing the IP? Can’t imagine it’s out of patent if you saw it just a decade ago
@@chir0pter Their method is likely different enough to not run afoul of ip. GE was who was working on it but this new method is vastly superior.
@@HydratedBeans The idea of piezoelectric cooling probably dates back much further than GE. We've been using piezoelectric technology for many decades now and piezo crystals can be found in all sorts of things including clocks (early processor clocks, not sure about newer ones but probably also piezo), Floor mats that convert pressure into electricity, and clothing that generates power as it moves (that one probably flopped due to issues related to washing the clothes).
I'm a huge fan of making fans obsolete. Just like I'm also a big fan of this segue to LTT's sponsor, Sweetwater.
fantastic comment, already a fan of yours.
*segue
@@EshmesVid good lookin out, brother.
This seems like one of the advancement landmarks in technology that is at its infancy but will significantly change the direction and build strategies of future devices.
Will it happen to make "better" mobile devices? Maybe actually cooled gaming phones/portable gaming stations(looking at you NIntendo and Valve)?
At least they won't be going "burrrrrrr" now
What I'm looking forward to is sandwich-style small form factor PCs (SFFPCs) in cases like the FormD T1 with a spine completely made out of Frore System Airjets. Hell, you could even have a multi-layer sandwich of them: Airjet -> GPU -> Airjet -> motherboard -> CPU -> Airjet
to me it seems doomed from the start. A high exit velocity means nothing if the volume is low.
@@kiyoponnn they seem keen to try their best to scale up this type of micro-cooling, albeit ineffectively
@@maximelearning this 100 times.
Imagine cerebras but instead of 8inches in the x and y direction, its a 2.5inch ssd with stacked silicon +cooling.
Now THAT is the future trillion transistor chips will happen.
I mean think about it, 100mTr/mm2 is already high density enough, and a 100mm2 die thats 5w-ish and 10bntr (aka a 1080/ 8 core cpu/ 1-2gb cache), now if that is stacked VERTICALLY with thin coolers inbetween, wow its so exciting thinking about it. The best part is technically data would travel a shorter distance than epyc processors, since they travel only 1-3mm upwards rather than 10s across.
I can't wait to see how they DIY add this to the steam deck. I want to see how close this technology is to being useful in mainstream electronics
Would be neat to see them put it head to head with the one that slapped a big ass heatsink on
Steam deck and the switch please
@Joe Milone not the switch until they add better GPU
Well at least I could disable the excessively luminous power led indicator on my cheap case as simply as disconnecting it from the motherboard.
Just emulate your switch games on the steam deck.
Hell yes! Experiments on cooling the ROG ally or Steam deck! That would be amazing and such a fun project to see you guys get into ❤
I saw this in a video a while ago. You're right, it's the most impressive thing I've seen in years, I haven't been excited by hardware for a while. I could see the performance of small devices increasing by so much with the possibility of active cooling using such a device.
seeing this tech at CES was so cool but I was worried we weren't gonna see anything of it again. I'm glad the company is going well.
ever since the first unveiling this product has received a lot of naysaying but with each subsequent reveal it seems like Frore might be the real deal. If it can convince Linus...like I bet this guy had all the right questions for them, and he MUST have received the right answers
I'm just happy they didn't end up like that spinning heatsink/metal fan company
Was this shown off at the recent CES?
@@WarriorsPhoto until this Computex all their showcases have been very limited / hands off / secretive. They've been very hush hush about the internals so far. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but i think Computex is the first time they've publicly displayed the internal mechanism
@@ishaan863 Yeah they have shown it at CES but not the internals
This is the kind of generational change that Valve is looking for in a Steam Deck 2 model. With these types of fans, the entire device could be redesigned.
Considering the power draw of the current generation? Yeah, this could very well work.
They probably are waiting for battery evolution
Also imagine what dedicated graphics (or perhaps even full-CPUs) could bring to mobile gaming, or sort of "portable laptops" on the go.
@@Willian774 everybody is, it’s not just them, nintendo for their switch is probably waiting.
@@huh0123 Hell, entire governments are hoping for battery innovations to pan out for grid-scale energy storage.
I would absolutely love to see this in a Steam Deck or Ally (or both). Quieter? Better performance? Less power use? Any/all of the above?
Building my own mini-form-factor desktop PC and fabricating my own case and cooling-solutions sounds like such a difficult project but with things like this it seems very possible and makes me super excited for the future.
3D printing ahs definitely helped reduce these costs too.
I would like to see the dust resistantness of these things in person. As someone who works IT for a very dusty plant, this could be interesting
Indeed, though if they go on to sell replacement filter stickers the clogging of the air moving and heat exchange unit itself shouldn't be hard to maintain compared to current solutions. So even if they do have more trouble than advertised it might well be worth it, as even with the impressive performance of the low wattage so passively coolable chips now there are many cases you would love to have more compute.
Same, but I'm more interested in how it behaves with high humidity
Resistantness =)
I think the main point about dust resistance is that you can basically have a sealed system with a hepa filter on the intake because of the high static pressure.
@@satibel its also a really small intake, high static pressures can overcome large filters because the larger surface area, a smaller filter will become clogged in much much less time.
Can't wait to see stuff like this implemented in VR and AR, since one of the biggest things keeping headsets fairly large is that they require onboard cooling (if standalone, anyway)
And they can pull air in from the face area with that static pressure to prevent fogging!
@@tehs3raph1m I think you're onto something.
@@tehs3raph1m You don't want to pull too much air away from the face though or your eyes will dry out.
@@tehs3raph1mbroooo that's true!! Since this technology is so small it might also be able to be used for scent and stuff too down the line.
Imagine being in VR on a beach or something and having that thing push a little bit of ocean air scent by your nose. Next level immersion.
Im more excited to see them in handheld computers like steam deck.
I remember seeing the airjets a few months ago and I thought it would be a game changer in the laptop space, but it has potential for so much more. Really exciting tech and I can't wait to see how it progresses!
Very cool. I love that these guys took a chance and left their stable corporate jobs to build this startup and, hopefully, to contribute to leadership in the industry. Also I love the way you zoom out to see the industry from the perspective of scaling technology and considering the parallels in other related technologies while showing real data.
it's... amazing how far LTT has come in terms of shooting and editing. at first glance, you'd swear this was one of their studio videos.
Looks like they finally figured out how to attach wheels to their cameraman.
@@pirojfmifhghek566 Just wear Heelys.
And to think that not so long ago, LTT was just a humble potato farm. So proud of everything they've accomplished.
@@pirojfmifhghek566 or record at 8k then crop + stabilize
Manufacturers and exhibitors also learned how to set up their convention sets to have better lighting and demos that look good on camera now that UA-cam is the primary tech news medium.
It's good to see Linus so excited and enthusiastic about this stuff again
Getting the day to day management worries off his plate frees him up to work on what he is excited about and good at. I know they aren't done with that process yet, but I bet knowing where they are takes a lot off his mind.
Agreed.
If the presenter is excited about something we are too. 😊
He looks much more energic than before... Good for him.
i wish my dad were this excited and enthusiastic about me😔
I'm getting the same vibes from the Framework unboxing lol. I wouldnt be surprised if he did. Also like others said, i'm sure he's loving his new role.
I've been hearing about this tech since CES and this is quite interesting. I hope they keep it up, laptop cooling could use an overhaul.
This is incredible, I can't wait to see more implementations of it!
Woah man. This is legitimately the coolest tech I have seen in a very very long time. Everything will get smaller without the need for massive heatsinks and fans to cool them. Absolutely amazing. I need this in my life. Imagine. You could have a battery powered one to carry around in a handheld fan too. The applications are...pretty endless. Anything that moves air basically. I need that mini pc!!! Now all we need is a better battery technology. Seems like we've been waiting forever for that.
Solid state batteries are seeing huge strides, too! Between those and Sodium Sulfur battery potential, the future is looking electric.
The coolest tech...literally
To ease your pain on that end, a lithium car battery patent was made this year that lasts 50% longer than the current runner up. Approved for use, Mercedes and a few other car companies are already implementing it in their next electric release.
We can assume this wont apply only for car batteries for long.
Also hyundai and a few other companies are working on batteries that arent lithium powered and may last potentially for years instead of hours of running in a car until a charge is needed, maybe in 10 years we'll have a clearer picture about this concept
yeah.. but, but.. where's the rgb?
@@2hard2find I can promise you now that there is NO upcoming tech that will make a EV battery last for years on a single charge. The energy density required for that is literally impossible with the physics that is known and understood today.
That being said, there is a lot of promise in solid state battery tech, and some promise in sulphur based tech among a few others. But it remains to be seen what will become commercially available and feasible in the coming years.
Imagine this built into high end motherboards in between the VRM chips and capacitors (because it can be scaled small enough without losing performance) pulling air from behind the motherboard and pushing the air/heat directly away from all the components - I think this will revolutionise much more than just chip cooling, it has the potential to allow for much higher power loads through systems as a whole and therefore much higher performance to pretty much everything...
Silicon is mostly tapped out performance wise. There are other options that have far more headroom in them and they also get very hot
Or a 3D brick array of MANY them for CPU or GPU cooling in a conventional desktop gaming PC.
Sure, the implementation of them in tiny things is great too, but big fans and conventional heat-sink fins and heat-pipes on air tower coolers take up a TON of case space(not to mention getting hard to clean, and often wearing out because they're big fat moving parts). You could cram a lot of these into the space a 2x140mm fan air cooling tower takes up.
It may be expensive, but I'd welcome the 'solid state' nature of these over bulky fans after the product and production matures....
As long as sound is not an issue. Linus claimed to hear it, but I'd love to see some quality testing done here to....temper my hopes and dreams.
Even if not, it's still a truly awesome product if it all stands up under scrutiny.
I saw this a few months ago in a video at some tech conference......I commented that this could be a gamechanger if the cost is decent enough.....some time later I saw it on another tech channel......Now its on LTT.....yep, a gamechanger......no more fans.....fans the final moving part on a PC
Finally, a reason to have overpriced motherboarda
Since price is already pointed to as a bit of a hurdle... I would expect that at least in the near future there is no way this would make sense. Unless the setup could really seriously out perform water cooling it is not going to do much in the desktop market when the price is significantly higher than a good loop.
i wanted to see more of this,Thanks LTT for making video
Man I've been waiting for this video since I heard about the AirJet a couple months ago! Already knew a lot about how it works but always enjoy hearing your explanations and thoughts on new interesting products!
This is exciting stuff. It's such a simple thing, component cooling, but this strikes me as a big step in the tech industry.
Big leap. Its a big leap. Its one of those inventions that comes once in a decade and feels like the second stage of the rocket has been ignited.
@@VEE727 These parts will likely continue to get smaller, allowing for more cooling power to be able to be put into smaller builds while also being more energy efficient. Not to mention they seem to be quieter than normal fans as well, which could be a really big deal when it come's to specifically gaming laptops but really just laptops in general.
Linus mentioned the cooled LED in a sidenote, but I believe this is a huge factor. There are so many components that usually get no active cooling but suffer of performance issues at high temps, which could in future (when the scaling works as Linus hopes) viable for active cooling.
And 1.7W power consumption for 10W cooling is mindblowing. Even 1W power for 5W cooling is on par with modern heatpumps.
@@christianstorms3950 I was gonna say this, these could also dramatically reduce the size of heat pumps.
Cooling and battery are the areas that are severely lagging.
Very cool to see how cooling systems have changed for computers.
More like, are changing.
We'll probably never see it in commercial stores for like 10 years at a reasonable price.
cool indeed
@@robertbernard7844 they said Chat GPT would take 15 years to achieve what it has already. Even with further to go, we clearly can no longer properly estimate time between advancements properly
@@stytler06 perfectly put
As someone who works on industrial equipment you'd be surprised how often cooling fans actually fail, I hadn't even thought of these being used in this space until watching this vid, but that's actually a perfect use case!
Got an old computer at work with a 2nd gen (I think) i5 in it clocked around 4GHz. Computer runs like shit even when it isn't doing anything and I can just about guarantee it's because it's never been cleaned so the filters are gunked but I wouldn't be surprised if the fans have also stopped working at this point (if an electric motor is restrained it'll get very hot, very quickly and burn up). I work in a press shop and that computer is right next to one of the oldest presses we have that runs a lot of jobs that spray a lot of coolant into the air (can't be good for my health either).
AirJet is a M.E.M.S.
Micro-ElectroMechanical System
A tiny part electronic part mechanical system built with photolithography.
(If someone is asking: yes, there are also MEMS microfluidic devices which include microhydraulics)
(EVEN CRAZIER: yes, there are also system that include both MEMS & photonic computing in ond chip, like photonic MEMS network switches which uses microhydraulics as actors to flip mirrors in an optical network switch integrated all into one hybrid MEMS + silicon photonic chip built using photolithography)
Would love to see a Steam Deck mod video on this, and the resulting cooling/potential performance uplift.
This needs to happen and on the rog ally as well
I could see handheld gaming systems getting a huge benefit from this. Sadly Nintendo will likely never adopt the tech.
@@DrawTheLine35 They will, 100 years later...
@@saddocatto9245 Wow, blatantly biased take from a Nintendo hater, what a surprise. They'll clearly have it ready in 80 years.
And take away our fan smell? You monster!
Seeing Linus's obvious excitement about new innovative gear is infectious, these last two videos have been fantastic seeing him get excited about things that will truly revolutionize the industry. I'm all for it, because these are the kind of advancements that get me excited as well!
Just seems happier now he's unpluged from the CEO role and back to where his obvious passion is.
I can think of so many uses for this AirJet product. I think this is the coolest thing I've ever seen at CES.
This is super cool to see! I love seeing the new things that material science teams some up with and the kinds of weird tools they can build up from seemingly inconsequential material behaviours.
As a medical doctor that uses handheld ultrasounds that are connected to the phone, I can see this having a pretty big use there. Current handheld ultrasounds that also the transducer have one very big limitation - you can use them up to 5 min before you need to take a break because they are overheating :( I guess 2 of the pro version will do very good job to extend the period we can work with the small ultrasound
Yep this is very much beyond computers. Actually exciting
Really interesting to hear. I think as with most things, you are best as discovering options from your perspective.
Linus is a computer guy and content creator, he works towards his own views and audience.
You on the other hand are uniquely suited for your direction.
Funny enough, ultrasound transducers have piezoelectric crystals to generate ultrasound waves when applied to a current. Unclear if this will impact the device if you apply cooling technology to it.
They just need to pitch this is on those manufacturers and they would absolutely be in talks with it for sure
@@ldrsquad seems like the frequency difference were big enough. if i listen the video right, they uses 24kHz frequency while ultrasound imaging machine usually runs at MHz range. though, if you want to be super cautious, decoupling the transducer from the cooler assembly might work. graphite sheet can be used to transfer heat in X/Y axis without transfering too much vibration between devices
This is my favorite kind of LTT video. Just Linus (or somebody else at the channel) talking about a piece of cool new technology. This thing is genuinely exciting! A whole new way to cool things that's "solid state" instead of using moving fans.
Not the same, but ok. SSD VS HDD was ground breaking.. SSD has speed, small and just overall better than a HDD.. this fan stuff, nah.. I don't see the potential at all.. they just tried to re-invent the wheel and failed.
@@sidewinder86ify have you lost the plot
@@sidewinder86ify what do you mean? these solid state fans are smaller, more power efficient, quieter, more adaptable, dust proof, longer lasting and have a potential to be much cheaper than current cooling fans with industrial scaling! therefore I fail to see your point as this could have insane potential, just look at the RTX4090 and its massive size or the behemoth gaming PCs which are indeed mostly cooling space, this not only allows high spec components to be built more compact but also into a smaller form factor which allows them to be used in laptops or other smaller devices which would greatly improve convenience!
these kind of tech videos where linus is genuinely excited make me so happy
I wonder how these will perform as an integrated heatsink/cooler for DDR5 memory sticks. At least i hope they will become accessible enough to DIY such a solution sometime in the future.
There are very few promising new products I hear about where I'll occasionally just randomly remember them and wonder how they've been doing. This has been one of them, and I'm glad to see an update that shows they are still out there and making progress.
I hope it doesn't go the way of the fan/heatsink combo (which exists but is a pretty niche product for thin mini itx.)
This is one of those technologies I keep expecting to not be real but it is
i first learned about this from audiophilia videos, that industry has been embroiled in a cut throat competition in these last 3 years so they've started exploring a path of solid state audio driver tech called MEMS
this (Frore is a tangentially related off shoot of that tech)
I can see this being very useful in laptops. Hopefully we'll see it in a retail laptop sometime within the next year or two.
Try 6+
Will take much longer, these things are expensive af rn
You clearly didn't watch the video before commenting...
i think that within 10 years it will become the norm in really slim laptops, who knows if it gets the right funding and attention it might become a thing for dekstops and would make mini builds really easy since heatisnks and fans take up a masive part of the build space.
China is cloning the design as we speak 😂
Oh thank god, I was hoping you'd be making a video on this soon!!
I hope y'all keep up on this tech. I can't wait to see other possible applications and how it progresses.
This is legit exciting. Higher static pressure could mean more densely packed heatsink fins in other parts of the device assuming air works that way. With time and let to cook I feel like we could get some seriously wicked cooling solutions in the coming years or decades.
Lifesaver for helmets and cooling garnment solutions of all kinds -- cosplaying, first responders, firefighters, astronauts, actors, athletes, construction workers, motorcyclists, hazmat suits, geologists sampling lava, and more!
@@handlemonium rebreather systems in diving gear would be less clunky
its junk and wil last 3 years max , smaller the prodoct less its lastings
@@girlsdrinkfeck That's why the "solid state" is important, no moving parts means it won't actually wear down like a traditional fan.
@@girlsdrinkfeck did you watch the video?
I am both incredibly excited for this (please do a steam deck mod) and also worried for all the pets that can hear those frequencies better than we can. It would suck if all of a sudden dogs started getting scared every time your laptop jets started up.
cats and dogs can hear well over 40khz
I think they're definitely going to mod steam deck, Linus with that ADHD energy looks so excited I'm sure he can find a way to get some I'm betting the team is already thinking of how to do it
I came to the comments to see if anyone had the same worry about animals. Right now, it just above human hearing but dogs and cats are going to be annoyed by it. Hopefully they can get the frequency higher than that or it would suck to have them in your house.
This is what the lab is for
@@MaxDad7 There is noise cancelling available if it becomes a big issue. Basically, you have a microphone to pick up the sound created, it gets run through a signal inverter, and sent back out via a speaker, then the two sounds cancel each other out. Rather simple physics. This is used in some luxury cars to make the ride quieter. Flat panel speakers have been around since the 1980s, so not a new concept there, it's all just a matter of scale. Another way is to have some sort of sound deadening material that can absorb higher frequency sounds, if it can be made thin enough and also not interfere with heat transfer -- don't want to insulate the case so that it retains heat, which the object is to remove it as efficiently as possible. (I'm a retired computer / electrical engineer, in case you're wondering what my technical background is.)
Very impressive. Hats off to Frore. Amazing work at an even more amazing speed. Also hats off to LTT. As ever, an amazing fast paced explanation that's coherent and accessible.
I really believe Linus and his crew are some of the most achieved IT narrators on this rock.
I've been waiting for new use cases for what is imho a mems device. This is brilliant!
Considering they are on-site at a convention, this video production quality and editing is totally uncompromised. Little touches like someone off to the side to hand in and take out the laptop around 4 minutes is super neat to see.
the audio was pretty much perfect also
Fun fact: Halos (albeit fictional) Mjolnir armor uses piezoelectrics as the fundamental reason for their strength. Piezoelectric speakers for audio are also coming out very soon, supposedly taking over electrostatics for top spot. Can’t wait to see how this improves. I’d love to see that Steam Deck video!
Piezoelectric speakers are an ancient concept though, aren't thety? They are the beepers in your motherboard and stuff.
Or are they high fidelity enough to actually reproduce any sound a human wants to hear?
@@Hoxeel Ah I'm not sure. But the new ones are in IEMs. Not sure how well they'll work in headphones or standing speakers though. But from what people who've heard them have said they are incredibly detailed!
@@hunterborden6891The old ones also used piezoelectrics. They weren't very good, but they weren't very power hungry. You could run them with a passive signal via a crystal radio.
New ones probably combine them with standard drivers, because while they're good with high frequencies, they're not good with low ones.
Pzt materials resonate at a particular frequency and aren't efficient. So I doubt it...
Piezoelectric speakers were one of the little built-it-yourself gadgets included in a 90s primary school 'engineering' kit I got hahaha I think the kit included them because they were so energy efficient and low cost? The little toys you could make out of it was limited to just beeps and buzzes though
this was very interesting! Thanks LTT for covering this!
This video really shows that Linus making the switch to focus more on making content rather than corporate ceo boring work, was a great move. Good work Linus and team! Can't wait to see more of Linus's personality in the content!
Yep definitely seems happier in this role.
Oof
I'm glad someone else also realized that this is probably one of the best improvements in the PC industry in ages.
In a few generations this will be everywhere
Maybe not just PC industry. Anything that require heat to remove
The pure excitement Linus is exhibiting is just great and I feel must be related to his decision to step down as CEO and the resulting weight being lifted off his shoulders, allowing him to focus on what he really enjoys
He’s still CEO until July
Knowing help is on the way can have a big effect on mentality.
I have been eagerly following Frore’s technology for months and agree it is incredible. The CEO seems like a great guy as well. My thoughts are that no other PC handhelds are worth investing in until this tech is included.
Thanks for giving these guys the credit and exposure they deserve!!
OH MY GOD This is game changing in so many areas! I was just thinking about LED pro lighting fixtures that either go fan or passive cooling which adds SO much weight, something like this I am sure could be way quieter than a fan and provide sufficient cooling at a low enough sound level to reduce unit weight!
Absolute game changer. I was hoping they would hit the market soon. Can’t wait to see more vendors adopting them.
I'd love to see a steam deck modded with these just because I want to know what sort of performance gains it'd gain from something like this. Hope you guys follow through with that.
If someone can build a loop of copper and install four of these simultaneously, that's easily enough cooling for a Steam Deck.
That would cut cost in cooling do to space, and the performance gain's would be more FPS if they can keep the CPU from thermal throttling.
Would it be possible to put this in a closed loop? Thinking internally in a vapor chamber or in a heat pipe, where it speeds up the internal flow enabling it to spread the heat more quickly/evenly? Maybe integrate this into the IHS to alleviate hotspotting and just boost the initial hot point to help overall heat dissipation? Or possibly making a flexible channels (that would enable moving the hot air to more optimal areas - think pushing the air from the lower part of a laptop to outlets that would funnel the air behind the display section and up through the top edge).
A good use case for these would be cameras, where it could help dissipate the heat just enough to enable longer shooting times but also needs to be compact. Could also help with dust mitigation.
If I'm not mistaken, the Sandia cooler was working on a similar thought (just in a different manner). I think in that instance it relied on a boundary layer to alleviate friction, almost creating a maglev like barrier of air to enable spinning the metal fan?
Maybe Dyson will integrate these into headphones? They could finally make their "bladeless fan" actually a bladeless fan!
for servers this could be amazing as you can make racks even smaller and pack more cpus, ssds, graphics cards into a room and might even help with cooling costs too
Ok now THIS actually seems like it can be a total game-changer in thin, low power systems. The fact that they are actually being used in some commercial products is awesome - it's clearly not just a product that will never really see the light of day.
I'm honestly more interested to see how they can scale up the process.
I'm trying to think what a GPU/CPU heatsink using these would look like.
@@TheBaldrickk that sounds really expensive, especially in how Linus described the production of the small ones.
@@billyjoel4464 currently? Yes. I'm referring to the economies of scale bit, as the tech matures further.
@@TheBaldrickk And don't forget to potential moore's law effect it could have. With manufacture scaling, this could very well change the way we design cooling solutions or think of device cooling
@@umbreonmax_hd3209 exactly my point.
I don't know how well it will scale, but I hope it does.
I saw this product on CES and some channels have made a video on this and I wondered how in the world Linus has not got his hands on this but finally it's here.
Oh my god I can't believe you got your hands on these! I am so hyped up for these products by Frore!
hello linus! i like your style in presenting hardware news. thank you very much from germany!!
I can't wait to see how these things evolve. It's already impressive enough that they're getting that much performance for the size.
Its already at "shut up and take my money". If it gets any better I'll have to start throwing my wallet at the screen.
This made me realize that battery tech as to improve alot, 2 of those minis as they are can cool 10W, add 5W for pacive cooling and a phone with 2 of those minis could run at 15W, that is what the RoG Ally in performance mode uses and that device can play GoW at 720p ~40fps while using 15W.
The phone would be slightly thicker, but the main problem is that an already huge 20Wh battery on phones would deplete super quickly and considering that we need to have a good amount of battery on our phones for our day to day use, running the SoC at 15W would be completely unviable.
Then in 4/5 years if they double again, then 2 of those could allow a phone to run at 25W, in 10/12 years of they double yet again then that would be 45W. At that point it's extremely clear that battery tech is holding our devices back.
@@goncaloduarte4683 battery tech has been the main bottle neck for electronics for many years
@@kasuraga I read somewhere that, we already have the tech to improve batteries but the problem is the material used on them, it's very expensive and hard to produce to make it actually viable and accesible
@@vsie3280 it's also because of the complexity of it itself. It cant sell if it's too expensive
We've needed this for a long time.
I am very interested in seeing a Steamdeck with this implemented and assuming its far better then the current cooling system then Steam would likely love to partner up with Frore to make a prototype.
Boundary layers also explain why wind chill is a thing. The lower the wind speed, the bigger the boundary layer can build up around you and the less heat that escapes from your body.
Poor example, since the boundary layer on skin doesn't vary in size. Higher wind speeds on skin only perpetuate faster loss because there is more air at 'work'/flowing to take hear away - not because it decreases the boundary layer.
The boundary layer shown in the video is something for flat, smooth and even surfaces. Human skin and it's contours is organic and has many 'imperfections' that creates turbulence to such a degree, again as the diagram flow chart was showing, doesn't apply to skin.
I would describe that effect more as a factor of forced vs natural convection, though heat transfer can certainly be described in terms of a *thermal* boundary layer.
There's been so many technologies that seemed revolutionary in the past decade but ultimately never went anywhere. I can see why Linus is so hyped, this is one of the first game-changing physical tech I've seen in a while.
Amazing tech and infectious enthusiasm in this presentation.
Those smooth area transition between sentences edit was so perfectly crafted.
I’m so happy to see the excitement come back to the tech space now that Computex and stuff are back on. That whole human malware thing back in 2019 really slowed us down!
I'm curious about how much time the team has to prepare for this kind of videos. How much information is given beforehand so a script can be prepared.
It's a 17 min video with a TON of info and it's absolutely impressive because they sure make it look like it was all absorbed and regurgitated on-site, hours before the video was edited and uploaded.
someone needs to ask this question as a merch message on the next WAN Show!
@@moneypowertron that would be awesome! And I think they said last week that this week show will be streamed from Taipei, since Computex ends this friday
Linus just makes it look easy. Put anyone else in lmg in his place and theyll need 3 times more time and fumble every sentence (probably i dont know).
This is REALLY interesting tech. And seems to just be ramping up, so could possibly even get BETTER?!
Once this gets popular, and sounds like it will, then it'll be a game changer for smaller devices. Heck, maybe even a quiet mini-workstation or media pc?
Awesome idea. Wondering how well would these perform after 1 year however with fine particles getting into the filter?
I've been so excited to see Linus look at this for a while! Would love to see future implantations in things like the Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch 2, etc
I think outside of AI, this is the big breakthrough we are going to see in the early 20s. This is truly an amazing thing!
Cannot wait for a Stem Deck cooled with this stuff! And I know you guys can deliver.
I was waiting for Frore systems to be covered in LTT. Their tech is amazing.
I want to see these cooling solutions in vehicle dash cams. Summer time heat causing issues is a real problem for lots of dash cams and having a cooling solution this small would be a massive boon for that niche market.
Maybe it could help gopros thermal issues...
@@ConceptHut very good point. GoPros definitely have thermal problems as well
This was so so so so interesting and engrossing to watch from the start to the end.
At first I was just intrigued at seeing a newer cooling solution for thin and lights. Then I was blown away at how innovative it was and to see that there are still amazing innovations and breakthroughs going on even if they are happening in the background. In a strange way it felt like my world was expanding.
After that I was so absorbed into the video that I started wondering how you guys even did the production for the video. Like seriously? There's no way you guys had everything scripted like the TVs becoming cheaper remark, and the pulling up that graphic in the edit.
Haven't enjoyed a YT video in a long while.
This is an amazing device. I do have a slight problem with the double dust filtration system though. I spent 20 years in HVAC, and one rule of thumb there is you never double filter the air, especially if the second filter is inaccessible or just hard to get to. The problem is, even if the secondary filter takes on verry little dust, it still does, and over time will lead to it loss of airflow and eventually becoming completely plugging. Filters have to be easily accessible and easy to clean. Another problem with double filters is the human mind, basically out of sight out of mind. If you don't see it, it is common for many to never clean it. You'd be surprised how many times I was out on a service call where a ceiling filter and an air handler filter was installed. Basically, that was a service call charge to take one of them out.
I would suggest they add a filter cartridge that can be removed and cleaned. Such a cartridge could still have two filters. Then with simple temp monitoring and timer's, warnings to clean or replace the filter could be added. This could still be thin membrane filters.
I wonder if when they have two units together, they could run them inverse of each other and thus get some native noise cancellation. Maybe have separate vanes run inverse.
This is by far the best video I've seen on the channel. Looking forward to a future where a thin laptop pre-installed with this device or at least given as an option.
This is honestly revelationary, and its a perfect example of how many times the best way to innovative isn't to try and make the current solution better, its by making something entirely new
For the longest time it was just accepted that fans were how things were cooled, so no company tried to figure out something different, they instead just tried to make fans better
This new cooling solution shows that we should never have been trying to make fans better and instead needed a whole new approach
I'm not buying into the marketing yet until an actually usable device comes out. So many scams these days claiming to replace fans which turn out to be nothing. Toroidal fans anytone?
The reason we accepted this is because the technology literally did not exist less than 10 years ago. There simply was no such thing as solid state fans
Better fans are still needed, they aren't only used in small portable electronics, you know.
This, but this situation isn't the best example
Nope. You ideally do both.
This may be the thing of the future, fans are going to be better for most applications for a quite some time yet.
If this works as advertised regarding the dust resistance, it could be REALLY useful in our construction materials lab! :)
Yes, we want to see you and Alex mod it into anything and everything.
using photolithography to make a fan is awesome, imagine how small and efficient these things will get
imagine the cost of them compared to a fan
I remember PC World showing this off about a year ago, you could tell then it was going to really do amazing things in the laptop segment. Wonder when apple is going to buy them out...
I got a sample of a very similar device from Murata around 2016, 2mm thick and providing ~2200 Pa; I played with it for calibrating sensitive pressure transducers. I don't think it made it into full scale production, the projected unit cost just kept climbing. Best of luck to these people keeping manufacturing costs viable, and figuring out a way to mitigate the noise characteristics.
I need some of these thanks.
Love to see the airflow used in high power lights used in film shoots! 👍that’s the market where production might pay more for the quiet
Right now there is one downside, power consumption. ONE Airjet uses ~1-1,2W, for comparision a Noctua A12x25 PWM also uses 1,2W.
Now cooling a 4090 with 450W would cost over 100W of power, so you won't see them in that application.
And in notebooks you can only use 2-3 or the power consumption would stack soo high, that the battery is drained in minutes...So high-end laptops are also out of the question.
It is a very limited space, where those airjets are really useful.
Keep in mind this tech is in its infancy and they're actively improving how much power these devices draw. There is definitely room for improvement, which is good. I genuinely think this device could solve the laptop cooling problem alone. Let alone the dust problems and size restrictions.
I'm excited for where this goes. I can already imagine all the mods Linus would try.
Drop it?
Looks really cool. My main question right now is: What effect does all that super high frequency vibration have on all the solder joints over time in the devices that it is cooling? We have already had issues with solder joints for years, especially when they switched from Lead bearing solder to solder without Lead.
Also, can you physically feel the vibrations from these coolers?
I want to see these in phones and portables game systems, though also curious how it'd do on desktop components like CPUs and GPUs. This could be a game changer in many more products than just pc components. Hair dryers, vacuums, or anything else that either moves air or need to be cooled.
Since Linus didn't even mention the price I'm damn sure this tech will be industrial / ultra high-end for a looooong time.
Look at the accelerating rate of price decreases of OLED TVs since they hit the market. If the manufacturing scales like TVs as anticipated, the time to market saturation might not be nearly as long as you might think.
Watch it be like $200 per unit
Apparently, they're already planning to release to laptop makers right at launch.
Advancement or improvements of its mass production will eventually reduce its price overtime. So expect this to be commercially viable in the near future.
The zotac mini-pc is selling for 499 and it has 2 inside
Love these video tours of other facilities and get a look into the manufacturing side of things. Good way to get a sneak peak at new and upcoming tech.
Even with the covering over the intake this could present some unique cleaning challenges. Especially if your like me and sometimes go just a wee bit too long between cleanings. Dust will find a way.
This could very well be a revolutionary device for the whole computer industry! Cooling is one of the most difficult problems to solve in a good way, and this looks like the best approach so far. I've been so excited ever since I saw the first video they uploaded about it. I remember there was so many people in the comments writing that they need to send Linus one for testing!
I'd like to see these cool oled panels on a VR headset. Imagine how bright you could make them and still cool them with a thin and light system. And cooling an onboard processor with these could bring standalone VR to the next level. What if you modded a Quest 2, or even a quest pro with these?
good idea.
Linus mentioned the high frequency noises it makes, you sure you want that right next to your ears? I'm sure people with tinnitus would prefer not to have tinnitus.
@@Jeremyzor they would definitely find a way to muffle or eliminate the sound in wearables. Plus don't most people wear headphones or earbuds when they use VR headsets? Not to mention active noise cancellation...
@@Jeremyzor not a problem since that sound is very quiet. They say the maximum noise of the Airjet mini makes is 21dbA! Who has a noise floor of 21dbA or less at their home?
A little bit of soundproofing inside the headset will go a long way to eliminating it and if anything actually makes it to the ears at an audible level will easily be drowned out by the game audio or the ambient noise even.